Maybe someone can red pill me on why people support libertarianism. On the surface it seems good - deregulation, property rights, no gun control, no "anti-discrimination" bullshit, individual rights - but then they also advocate for things like drugs, alcohols, and faggots. It would just allow all manners of unproductive, degenerate, and amoral behaviours. As a result I just don't see how someone could legitimately support them - is it all a big meme?
>People are unproductive faggots
>Limited gov't means no welfare
>No welfare means unproductive faggots must either nut up and work, beg for help from a charity which will hopefully only help if they nut up and work, or starve to death
Degeneracy is a harder issue to fight, and would depend on having a strong society with good values. Unfortunately we are about 50 years to late for that.
>>74812411
Not everyone is a retard who thinks that drugs, alcohol and homosexuality are things that need to be dealt with at a federal level.
>>74812688
If they want be stopped federally, where will they be stopped? It is a lot harder to do it 50 times than one.
>>74812609
I see, so it's kind of an intermediate measure?
>>74812411
Your assumption is that it's the government's job to control peoples' lifestyle. It's not.
As long as they aren't harming anyone, it's nobody's business but their own how they live their lives.
Libertarians seem to be far more mature and level-headed than most of the population in that they may disagree with how someone lives their life, but can respect that they should have the freedom to do what they want (again, barring they aren't harming and infringing on someone else's rights).
>>74812914
Whose is it then? They harm themselves, their neighbors and society as a whole.
>>74813117
I feel you have very little experience with drugs.
MUH ROADS
>>74812411
It's just babby's first counter-narrative. It doesn't seem to make sense because it's incoherent and makes the same sort of bad assumptions about human behavior that socialism does, just of an opposite polarity.
>>74813291
Personally none of course. But I volunteer often and see the wickedness that they cause. It's astonishing that they haven't been eradicated, and I think that should be a top priority.
>>74813291
the internet is a drug and it's destroying society.
Personally you know how 4chan and anonymous boards are corrosive to society. Imagine a country of /b/ tards. That is what libertarian society is and why internet culture is promoted by Jews. 4chan and anonymity were always cancer. If the internet was controlled or completely banned from home use, most modern problems wouldn't exist.
This is why I might vote Hillary. She's a horrible president but she'll lock down the net, which in any form can only be good for America. Even if it's state enforced feminism and surveillance, it will mean the ultimate time waster and bread and circus is gone for redpilled people and they need to get off their asses. I hope 4chan is destroyed.
Different styles, You have the Gary johnson type, who flaunt how they are similar to liberals and promote weed lmao. Then you have the Austin Petersen type who joke about supporting it, but don't personally advocate it. We'll see in a week which side of the party is going to be in full display this election.
>>74813539
>>74813710
wasted effort tbhfam
>>74812411
Radical Libertarianism is pure autism. I don't think most of /pol/ even realises what it is. I see threads every day calling for "National Libertarianism" as well as jewtubers like Stefan desperately trying to adapt their idealogy to a modern world when it's obvious that classic liberalism is what they really want.
https://youtu.be/R5Gppi-O3a8
>>74813796
The latter type should really rebrand as paleocons, the difference being that the paleocon stance is that the states should have all the power to enact moral and drug laws. Right now the federal government due to obongo but more importantly a leftist Supreme Court are actively destroying the power of the states to do such things.
>>74813536
You volunteer your time? For free?
>>74813539
>the internet has far more negatives than positives
Sure, faggot.
>>74814146
Of course. It's the righteous thing to do.
>>74812411
Nature is greater than man, therefore nature should rule over man.
>>74814411
the idea of "nature" that comes from Darwin's theory is bullshit from a man. And man isn't an animal.
>>74812411
Libertarianism is a half-baked, sophmoric political ideology.
Usually espoused by teenagers with no experience at life.
>>74814146
Volunteerism is an American tradition. The degradation of society here doesn't make it any less respectable. Looks great on a resume, too.
>>74812411
Because they're entitled little faggots who live with their parents in the suburbs and think it sounds great to be on top in a libertarian society.
>>74812609
fucking this
heres why /pol/ is so stupid if you live in a western country people rebel against laws the government has never stopped degeneracy despite their best efforts drug use is getting bigger every year, prohibition failed hard, not sure if they every banned faggots. Laws don't change peoples behavior the only difference is in a libertarian society people pay for their mistakes singles mothers won't have welfare and therefor would be completely fucked if they get knocked up. Privatized marriage would prevent divorces because they couldn't steal half your shit and they would be less likely to marry a man who would leave them. Drug addicts would just die. Immigrants who try to live off the system would be rejected from hospitals and just die.
>>74814613
It's not stupid to be skeptical of libertarianism. It's common sense.
You think the decline of the state would be a magic solution. As if society would naturally find an organic equilibrium. That's simply wrong. If you saw away at the timbers supporting society then it quite simply disintegrate. Life would become dangerous, unhappy and unstable. Degeneracy would accelerate. Suspicion, hate, distrust and disrespect would reign over civilisation. Humanity wouldn't find god, they'd simply flock to another golden calf.
People are children. They need to be cuffed on the side of the head. They need firm leadership. They need strict morality, orthodox religion and authoritarianism. Otherwise things will fall apart, the center will not hold.
>>74814411
The whole thing about civilization is the belief that human aren't just like every other animal.
Act like one, and all you built shall fall.
>>74813536
ok yea and whats your plan have the government do that? I'm literally asking for an answer. Under libertarianism people who use drugs and don't harm anyone are not effected, those who commit crimes under the influence are removed from society and put into productive for profit prisons, or killed.
>>74814495
or billionaire tech CEOs but I guess you don't have many of those over there
>>74814410
>>74814581
Y'all are crazy. I'll donate my time and energy to friends and family. And my immediate neighborhood if circumstances called for it. Time is the most precious resource we have on this earth. And I'm posting on /pol/ right now.
>>74812411
Libertarianism is an antidote for people who can sense that something is deeply wrong with modern liberalism, but can't yet move outside the ideological perimeters of liberalism
>>74815185
And? Technology is degenerate, it's responsible for most modern degeneracy. That's why libertarianism is so popular with the tech industry.
>>74812609
>Degeneracy is a harder issue to fight
Degenerates are largely created by a child-like dependence on government. Welfare creates an enviroment where's there is actually an incentive not to go past a certain threshold of income, as well as discouraging the family unit by offering more benefits to broken homes. It's a trap that swallows the less fortunate and endlessly churns out hopeless retards. A reduction in welfare would be a huge step in the right direction, just by limiting the rampant expansion of degeneracy, but I would rather see a negative income tax completely replace it.
>>74815094
dude wtf kind of post is this just some poetic nonsense fucking use real world examples if you want to talk
>>74815094
That golden calf today is the Internet.
Kill the internet and this reduces degeneracy tenfold on the spot. Mention that 4chan is pure evil, and everyone here will bitch. Even the ones who claim to be authoritarian or anti-democratic. They can't even realize how destructive it is.
I'm saying the only true taboo subject that neither side of politics will dare touch on the internet: that the internet is the problem.
>>74815405
We're past the point of no return.
>>74815277
>guns kill not people
look buddy technology doesn't cause degeneracy those people were already degenerates and they just needed technology to allow them to escape the ill effects of their behavior
with private cities you can have places where you're obligated by contract not to engage in degeneracy. Do you want an America where the government doesn't allow you to fire someone for faggotry?
also why don't you just become amish instead of engaging in this degenerate site?
>>74815405
>>74815510
Should we throw all technology and just live in barns, too? The internet is fine. Imageboards, BBSs, IRC, etc. are fine. Any characteristics they take on are due to the community using them, not vice-versa. Those that are less accessible to the public (not cuckchan) are usually safe havens for free speech, research, and constructive discussion on a fairly large scale that would otherwise not be available. The degenerate echo chambers found in mainstream social media largely cater to a pre-existing demographic, so I don't think the problem is there either.
banning faggotry would actually be easier under a libertarian government
the kind of government that has the moral right to tell you what you can and can't do with your own body and your own property -- they're not on your side. You're voting for them to have the moral right to force businesses that offer wedding services to accommodate homosexuals, even if the owners and the workers in that business want absolutely nothing to do with those people. You're voting for the government to have the moral right to force churches to let homos marry inside of them, even if the priest believes that he will go to hell if he marries them. You're voting for a government that has a moral right to force adoption agencies to let homosexual couples adopt children even though they are obviously going to rape the child. With libertarianism you are master of your own domain, you can ban faggotry from own life and the government won't stop you from doing it. You don't have to have anything to do with them if you don't want to, and they can go fuck each other in the butts and die of aids. Everybody is happy.
>>74815510
>not realizing that the actual use of the internet is the backbone of modern society and all technical innovation for the last 15 years
There is more to "The Internet" than social media and click bait. Academia would be nowhere near its current level if we still needed to request shit from the school's inter-library loan system and write letters to each other.
>>74816384
yeah and?
Those kinds of slow communications kept society functional and human. Delayed gratification is a good thing. Even in things like sending letters.
>>74816478
holy fuck your retarded and don't you realize the irony that you couldn't talk about this shit with normies so you have to come to 4chan?
the internet isn't just for "gratification" it completely revolutionized business and military communication but I guess you wouldn't know that because you probably just use it for trap porn
>>74812411
It's very simple: no man has the right to rule over another. No man has the right to harm another man, unless he is defending himself, other people, or his property. Large government inherently violates those rights?
May I suggest reading The Law by Bastiat?
Here's a link to a PDF for it: https://admin.fee.org/files/doclib/20121116_thelaw.pdf
I would also suggest reading some Hoppe. He's an an-cap, one of the most extreme forms of libertarianisim, yet he both supports expulsion of homosexuals and strong border security.
Also, most any enlightenment work, esspecially from the clasical liberal school of thought and works from the austrian school will help you get a grasp on the basics of libertinism and the various different idealogies that it takes the form of, and why people support it.
>>74812411
if someone chooses to be degenerate, that's their call. the good thing about libertarianism is that you don't have to pay for someone else's degeneracy. without government assistance, people who live upstanding lives and have strong values will rise to the top.
It works because we still keep the freedoms that we should have, we don't have some morality police, and yet its naturally a system that rewards the most upstanding and perseverant citizens.
>>74812874
These issues would resolve themselves in a generation or two. The groups to which you refer would be at a competitive disadvantage economically to the more traditional type of family. Without support from a welfare system they would be isolated and burn themselves out.
>>74813468
Roads would be forced to compete on the free market like all other goods and services.
