>Almost every single known indigenous culture recognizes the power and importance of psychedelic substances
>Modern Western civilization demonizes and outlaws it
How did we get so sick and lost?
Western civilization is way up it's own ass with the idea of empiricism. It basically relegates everything non-quantitative to the garbage bin.
Personally, I believe in the idea of spiritual experiences through art, meditation (or praying if you wanna call it that), and hallucinogens (if you're mentally sound enough for them). I believe this in spite of being 100% nonreligious
>>74804844
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars
>>74804844
Dude weed lmao
>Greatest achievement by indigenous cultures: canoes
>Greatest achievement by Western civilization: walked on the moon
I'm gonna go ahead and say who cares about outlawing drugs. Sobriety is a-ok with me.
Look how far those civilizations came. Aboriginals lived in australia 6 million years before whites and they stoll couldnt learn agriculture.
>>74804844
fuck off junkie
>>74804844
big pharma kikes need their shekels
>>74805583
That's not true at all. I mean, I'm sorta cherry picking here, but the Maya grew an empire comparable to the Roman Empire and were able to schedule when Earth was closest to it's galactic center long before telescopes were ever invented
>>74805583
>>74806034
Modern civilization is obsessed with physical accomplishments because they have no connection to anything else anymore.
>>74804844
People only want to escape into artificial worlds when they're miserable
>>74805583
If you're not a fucking dumbass, you can imbibe in entheogens to your heart's content and gain all the spiritual insight it entails without gettin *hur-dur busted bitch*
Part of the fun in my experience is the chase. Partaking outside the law seemingly adds to its "other experience," sorta like stepping out of the world.
Well, depends on your perception of the experience I guess.
>>74804844
>drugs or civilization
>>74806166
2 real 4 me
>>74806166
I hope you realize that those physical accomplishments are representations of a multitude of intangible accomplishments made in many fields of scientific theory. They literally represent our mastering of our understanding of time and space.
Keep getting connected with nature by doing drugs 24/7, retard.
>>74806226
Define "artificial."
And why do you assume it's "escaping?" Just because you like doing something doesn't mean you're escaping from something else. If you say you like going to jazz concerts I'm not going to assume you're trying to use saxophones to drown out the memories of your early childhood rape trauma.
>>74806133
>ut the Maya grew an empire comparable to the Roman Empire
Not even fucking close. Get the fuck out of here.
>>74804844
The bird is the word
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ekkXrfmPM8
White people ruined it. Now there shooting up heroin.
>>74806034
Aboriginals were too backwards even for drugs.
>>74806133
>That's not true at all. I mean, I'm sorta cherry picking here, but the Maya grew an empire comparable to the Roman Empire and were able to schedule when Earth was closest to it's galactic center long before telescopes were ever invented
This.
>>74805583
>whites aren't an indigenous race
Where did they come from? The fucking sea?
>>74806166
Not an argument. Like, I get your point but you're kind of arguing for the other side.
White people have no souls, what else is new.
>/pol/ unironically defending big pharma kike "DURR DRUGS ARE EBIL" propaganda
man they really indoctrinated you good didn't they?
>>74806133
>mayan comparable to roman
kek
It's funny how people dismiss these substances and talk about them as if they understand without even trying them. And it's a pity too. The world would be a better place if there was more LSD and mushrooms.
>>74806426
But it is an argument. You're trying to cite physical accomplishments as a reason to assert the superiority of one culture over another, and I'm arguing against that by pointing out it's just one kind of domain and that it's actually a sign of our culture's weakness how that's the *only* domain anyone cares about.
>>74806350
Your own existence is so miserable that you need to be out of it for life to be tolerable. Why do you think people are pushing to legalise weed? They're miserable and can't take it
>>74806593
>its ok when alcohol does it :^)
also why should escapism be illegal?
>>74806550
The problem is that "CONNECTION WITH NATURE, MAN" is kind of... ephemeral? Non-quantifiable? Unimportant? One of these.
Except any and all religions that are still alive today put heavy emphasis on sobriety. Maybe a few shamanist and fake religions like Rastafari are still left? Meanwhile all these aboriginal religions are long dead. What's your point? That psychedlics make a society weak?
>>74806593
Why do you assume there's an aversion to something else motivating the enjoyment and/or valuing of psychoactive substances? If someone said they liked playing the guitar or programming hobby projects would you assume they were motivated by an aversion to something else too?
>>74804844
is there anything more boring than stoners?
If the 18th century German Catholics didn't need psychedelics to create baroque art and Motzart, then why should we need them?
>>74805181
There's no promoting spirituality on a societal scale, at least genuine spirituality. It's up to each individual to form their own goals for "spirituality" or "enlightenment" regardless of the traditional values of their culture
>>74806550
You do realize that the physical world is the only one that exists right? There are no spiritual achievements because spirituality is just a fantasy created by the human mind.
>>74806733
Talk about bluepilled
>>74806783
Talk about delusion.
>Modern Western civilization demonizes and outlaws it
Incorrect, I work for a fortune 500 company as a white collar professional, me and most of my colleagues regularly ingest LSD-25
>>74806648
I'd say more we should aim for having the type of society that doesn't cause people such significant psychological distress that they need to escape it. Mind you, I've done weed and salvia and stuff before so I'm not coming at this from a "WELL I HEARD" point of view
>>74806713
Because there's a difference between enjoying hobbies and being so miserable that you can't even be happy with your own mind
>>74805181
https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=spiritual%20but%20not%20religious%20collegehumor
>>74806733
>the physical world is the only one that exists
I will point out an example that is neither religious nor physical: the world of abstract objects. I program for a living and most of what I think about each day is something non-physical. Abstract objects which don't exist the way rocks or animals do but which are nonetheless real enough to be worked with in a way that reliably yields products which are valuable enough to indirectly keep me fed and pay for my shelter.
>>74806854
You're the delusional one friend
Shrooms are sort of legal. You can buy the spores legally but growing them is a crime. That being said, you wouldn't get caught if you told nobody.
>>74806716
Yea they were on other drugs like morphine and opium
>>74806922
>there's a difference between enjoying hobbies and being so miserable that you can't even be happy with your own mind
I agree. But why do you assume the enjoyment of psychoactive drugs is always going to have being so miserable you can't be happy with your own mind as a secret motivation? I don't see where you're getting that from. I'm sure that's the case for certain individual people at certain specific times in their lives, but I don't see a reason to believe it's the reason for all psychoactive drug use.
>>74806972
Why? Because I accept my surroundings and don't have to day dream?
>>74804844
>Almost every single known indigenous culture recognizes the power and importance of psychedelic substances
and look where it got them. oh right.
>>74805583
Mayans discovered some of the advanced mathematics, and you need to establish your math and physics foundation before you can ever launch a satellite into space
>>74806868
>I'm a faggot and I work with faggots and we do faggot drugs together before faggoting around.
Thanks leaf.
>>74807129
>and look where it got them.
Happy, healthy, prosperous, and in harmony with the Earth?
>>74806593
doing psychs every once in awhile isn't exactly escaping every day life is it?
>>74807118
Because your ignorant of the world beyond what we experience. The human mind only experiences a miniscule amount of the world.
>>74804844
Almost every indigenous culture has to rely on foreign aid because the people are too stoned to take care of themselves.
>>74804844
>Almost every single known indigenous culture recognizes the power and importance of psychedelic substances
And look how far they got with civilization, even when left alone by western civilization until modern times. Wasting your time trying to find meaning in hallucinogenic-induced visions ensures your people continue living in mudhuts.
>>74807235
I do not illusion myself with what is not there. I practice mindfulness, not delusion. Take your shit back to >>/x/ where you belong.
>>74806938
The difference between spiritual and religious is that I don't believe in religious doctrine or in a god. I just occasionally contemplate the sublime immensity, complexity, and mystery that is nature both on Earth and in the cosmos. That, to me at least, is spiritual.
Also pic related
>>74806166
>man literally had to content with living on the ground for his whole existence
>his body's limits precluded ever going too high in Earth's atmosphere, let alone past it
>whether in the form of Icarus or Jules Verne's fiction, man has longed to know about the world outside of his reach
>man adds together all of the biology, all of the chemistry, all of the physics, astronomy, and more that he has and transcends his flesh's weakness to actually go into space and top the wonder of the flying machine
>dude, there was nothing empowering to the human spirit about it. it was all just material, maaan.
>takes another hit so he can change his brain's chemistry for a little while to trick it into feeling happy and thinking that it is having deep thoughts.
>>74807489
*contend. Damned phone.
>>74807489
>Moved from one point to another point in space.
Really profound.
>>74804844
We stopped putting druggies to death on sight
>>74806166
>Sitting in the dirt and chanting while off your ass on DMT
vs
>Making great scientific advancements to understanding our universe and environment
There's a reason abos and niggers were conquered so easily, you degenerate stoner.
>>74807577
>Moved from nowhere to nowhere
>WOOOW dude so deep i am really a true poet now
Feel free to move to a shitskin area and do your wonderful spiritual drugs with them.
>>74804844
>le noble savages meme
You realize the people of most cultures lived in mud huts and shat in the streets right?
>>74806226
Says the man behind a computer screen posting on an anonymous image board.
My Lord, the irony..
>>74807617
>Technological achievement is inherently good
How are those suicide rates in developed countries doing? Oh wow, they're way higher than in other places. It's almost as if technology isn't spiritually fulfilling by itself
yoyoyo red-pill me on los drugas
>>74806102
Severely underrated post.
>>74807845
Repilleame en las velaaaas
>>74807808
I heard that the biggest drug is the suicide, try it one day
>>74804844
Which civilization won? Oh right, white civilization.
Take your hippie shit back to your reserve you welfare parasite scumbag.
>>74807808
No, it's the consequences of political incompetence and it's effects on society that are causing them idiot. If I were debt ridden and unemployed, I'd off myself too.
>>74807995
Do they not have arguments in Paragay?
Notice any differences in the general stability of modern civilization versus those primitive cultures?
The primitive cultures are effectively dead because they believed the bullshit that they saw with their polluted minds.
Now modern civilization approaches death in that same way...
>>74806733
Wew lad
>>74808083
>consequences of political incompetence
Oh so Japan is run poorly run but Jamaica and Syria (which are near the bottom of the list in terms of suicide) are perfectly run? Poor argument
>>74808076
>Which civilization won?
Who would win in a fight between Leonardo da Vinci and Muhammad Ali?
>>74808092
"Dude deep lmao" and "muh readheads" isn't an argument
>>74808364
more like Paragay lmao
>>74804844
It is hardly demonized. Most people that I talk to have tried a hallucinogen at least once, and that applies to my friends, my parents and their friends, and even the older people that I work with.
>>74808364
What the fuck are you talking about? I said that technological achievement isn't inherently the most important thing to humanity. I have no idea what you're on about
>>74804844
>all of those indigenous cultures did virtually nothing in hundreds if not thousands of years and developed weird and pointless traditions like shoving sticks into their dicks
>western civilization creates modern science and medicine, dominates the globe
????????
>>74808277
>Japan
>Suicides are because of a lack of spirituality and not the fact that an aging population, overpopulatipn, and rampant cost of living means you have to work 16 hours a day.
Are you genuinely retarded?
>>74808513
So do you think that smoking pot is good in a cultural, intellectual and social way ?
>>74808277
You know that's not what he's saying.
He's saying that the culture in places like Japan is heading in the wrong direction and that the government is complicit in it.
Unsurprisingly, industrialized nations with proper regulations in place to balance work and personal health are very happy.
Denmark, Switzerland, Iceland, Norway, and Finland are some of the world's happiest countries, for example.
>>74808634
I was debunking the idea that suicide rates come from simply a poorly managed government.
But generally, yes. I think without some kind of spiritual guidence (religious or otherwise) jacks up the suicide rates in developed, secular countries. All that's left is careerism and when that fails, nothing remains.
>>74808645
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that dropping a hard skeptical outlook on things that don't show objective, empirical value would be beneficial. This includes drugs, but that's far from my main focus
>>74808623
All of our American "psychonauts" who do large doses of hallucinogens say the same type of shit "we are all one" or "the mother earth spirit is infinite love" but what do these people really bring to the table other than a good story?
>>74808946
Countries like Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Jamaica, and Kuwait have a lower suicide rate than all the countries you listed. Should we model ourselves after them?
>>74806922
Stress is necessary for growth. It inspires people to change and grow. Without stress people would sit and do nothing, feeling unfulfilled but not knowing why. Weak people use escapism to attempt to refuse the spiritual/mental/physical work you need to do, but you can't run from it without having a terrible life.
The spiritual truth of this place is that it is designed to be hard and unequal. The world is the forge and we are the metal.
As far as the drugs, I have found them destabilizing and they weakened my resolve, though they did provide some insight. I have benefitted far more from exercise, good diet, and meditating.
>>74804844
ITT sheltered faggots arguing with druggies
>>74804844
>conquered cultures and lesser peoples imbide psychedelic drugs
>conquerors rape their women
lmao
>>74809061
I can get on board with promoting a curious outlook on life, but drugs have been studied top down over and under. Some of them have helpful medicinal effects but you never need the "high" to achieve these.
>on things that don't show objective, empirical value
Are you suggesting we consider the benefits of worshiping things like wax statues or something? I don't know what you mean by this or why we would do this.
>>74809061
But Japan IS spiritual! Shinto-Buddhism is precent in most Japanese dailey lives. And Japans government IS poorly run. They rely on ever expansion, or else the Japanese economy will stagnate or go into a recession. They also rely heavily on a strong dollar to drive the Yen inflation up to increase government spwnding power. Both of these makes life very costly and difficult in Japan.
>>74806341
B A S E D P O S T
A
S
E
D
P
O
S
T
>>74804844
let's take a moment to appreciate how those cultures and empires endured the sands of time and overcame degeneracy to still exist today
>>74809295
Probably not, since those people are dying so much more often due to crime than the countries I listed that they don't have as any people with the luxury to consider killing themselves.
>>74809696
Well, first there are medical benefits to hallucinogens. Granted they haven't been studied much for legal reasons, early research indicates they can treat addiction, PTSD, anxiety, depression, and a range of psychological disorders.
And what I mean by the objective thing: our culture generally only values things that have a quantifiable, objective result. So things like admiration for art or nature, meditation, and other things that are unarguably spiritually beneficial are relegated to a fringe element.
I think we lose something when we depart from the idea of spirituality. I don't believe in the soul or a god, but I recognize the value of spirituality in and of itself.
>>74804844
They also believe that spirits cause disease.
Dude weed lmao.
>>74806487
I don't take big pharma's drugs or degenerate psychotropics.
What now.
>>74807214
>in harmony with the Earth
I think you just mean:
>in the Earth.
Those civilizations are dead, anon.
>>74810198
>he doesn't believe that spirits cause disease
*tips respectfully in your direction"
>>74810392
Yes, we know that the christians who "created Western science" still for some reason can't master the germ theory of disease or the concept of evolution.
>>74807214
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zVPUFMwm73Y
>genocide, environmental damage and manipulation, hunting species into oblivion, introducing exotic species, etc, since the dawn of man
>hey man, mother nature is cool with it when you do it with stone hand tools instead of machines
Really?
Civilisation will always trump savagery, pun intended.
>>74806133
>the Maya grew an empire comparable to the Roman Empire
Bullshit
>able to schedule when Earth was closest to it's galactic center long before telescopes were ever invented
Even bigger bullshit. Come on, I know a lot of people here are children, but you should be smarter than this.
nothing wrong with psychedelics if used very sparingly, like maybe twice a year.
>>74806166
>make technology that ends up being used for destruction
>consider this great achievements
>respecting all life, treating earth as an equal
>backwards.
yup.
>>74806404
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHjw5wfoj10
>>74804844
I don't do any drugs or drink anymore, but I will confirm salvia was some fucked up shit.
I smoked like half a gram of 10x once and I had an interesting experience. Universes melting, singularity with everything, then everything rebuilding near the end of the trip.
I only ever had a good experience twice with salvia, out of a dozen or so times.
>>74810213
take deez nuts
Same reason we have electricity and drive cars: we're not fucking retards
>>74811431
>>74810842
>equal
Kek, try to keep up with the current archaeological research. You're spouting romanticized memes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_use_of_fire
This is what they did when they weren't waging war with other tribes/confederations to take women and expand territory.
Archaic, psychedelic culture has the high score.
>>74811857
I didn't mention native Americans at all.
>>74812249
Except this is literally the story of all mankind.
>>74806426
>>74806034
why are you two stupid shit cunts speaking about a culture you know nothing about? lmao
you don't even live in the country with them, why bring them up to begin with? In Aus we ahte the cunts, so any chance to shit on them is great. but you guys white knighting them, making them out to be sober people, lol...
>aboriginals were too backwards for drugs
lol you fucking idiot, literally ALL they do is drugs.
Dreamtime? drugs.
walkabout? drugs.
