Is a fetus a human?
All humans are merely aged fetuses.
>>74752366
Is a tadpole a frog?
>>74752366
What else would it be?
>>74752366
Of course it's human.
Now is it okay to abort something that has never experienced consciousness?
That's another story.
>>74752366
Obviously
Yes it is. But the science denying left will claim otherwise so they can get on with their baby-killing-euthansia-selective-breeding agenda.
>>74752366
>>74752604
Is a Turk a roach?
>>74752724
This. Being a 'human' is not the same as having personhood. A person that's brain dead is still a human, but they are not consciousness and keeping them alive would do nothing for them.
>>74752366
Only if it's an American.
>>74752366
Sure it is!
Is is OK to kill it even trough it never experienced the joys of adulthood and discovered xirs many identities? Even though it is not a nigger or a jew?
>>74752917
When do you define when it has conscience? when it's 5 years old perhaps? Why does the exit of a vagina grant personhood?
It is a potential human.
>>74753205
When does it become "human"? Are toddlers potential humans?
>>74752523
>>74752724
>>74752773
>>74753075
I beg to differ
>>74753114
It's the circle of life.
>exiting the vagina brings life
>re-entering the vagina brings death
Amirite?
>>74753305
When it is sentient. What makes people against abortion is the thought of ending someone's life, that never got to experience it. Frankly, the whole they missed out on life's joys is asuming too much. What if they were born to a child molester, or experienced bullying and commited suicide?
>>74753461
I wonder what species of dna it has.
>>74752366
yes
only disgusting evil nasty derranged leftists believe otherwise
>>74753483
Tell that to my undead dick.
>>74753566
>When it is sentient
Where do you define when that is?
>>74752366
The week it has a heart beat it is. In my shitty opinion at least.
>>74752366
Depends what type of Animal the fetus is.
>>74753671
Is human sperm human? Or does it recieve human status when it becomes a diploid?
>>74752366
Yes. A DNA test would say so.
>>74753893
Human sperm is a protein
>>74753893
sperm isn't a human you fucking retard.
>>74752366
where did you get this crazy idea from?, feti are obviously torpedos.
>>74753114
It's hard to say since we still don't know where consciousness comes from. We can't even fathom how anesthesia subdues consciousness and it's been used since at least the late 19th century.
We have to use more round-a-about means to determine consciousness by examining reflexes and responses that would denote some higher-level brain function as well as the person's ability to survive on their own without being hooked up to another human or a machine.
>>74752724
This. The retarded argumentation and weasle wording in American politics needs to fucking stop. Claiming a zygote even isn't human is full retard. Claiming it's okay to abort it isn't even a related issue at all.
>>74752366
is your burger shit?
>>74754005
It's still a cell. What is the line when it becomes a zygote? When it developes specialized cells? When it developes gill slits? When?
>>74754127
Since you cannot define when one gains "conscience" you do not know whether or not your ending an innocent baby's life, the only correct course is to never do it until you can tell 100% whether that life you are ending is "conscience" or not.
> promotes full out genocide against select groups of people
> butthurt over abortion
Welcome to /pol/
>>74753461
well, why?
We can agree that a fetus is only a piece of tissue, but it is still human tissue, therefore it is human...
Killing it is another thing - as long as the blob of meat doesn't realise and begins to question it's own existence or being a nigger or a jew, there is nothing wrong to turn it off.
>>74754283
When it joins with the egg and becomes a human, you idiot. We're filled with a bunch of cells. They aint ever going to be "conscience". The fertilized egg will.
>>74754308
30th week - that's when one starts to dream, that is a good cut-off line...
>>74754308
Please feel free to tell me of your days in the womb oh conscious one.
>>74752366
Yes, and I have not problem killing it.
Seriously, just say this if you ever get into an abortion debate. Say you support abortion, and that you think fetuses ARE humans, unborn children. This is the only winning move because the real issue is that most people want to have it both ways. They simply deny the humanity of unborn children so they don't feel guilty about killing them.
By acknowledging they are human, and saying you still think it's okay to destroy them, you are fucking with both the pro and anti side, and neither knows what the fuck to do with you.
Try it. It's hilarious.
Typically, people who have abortions are people who should have been aborted themselves. They should not be allowed to abort; a child should be their punishment for their idiocy.
>>74752366
>>74754527
I love this image because of how utterly wrong it is. If the egg at top left is fertilized, it contains a chicken. If not, it doesnt. An acorn IS a member of whichever species it belongs to. Tree means two different things here: a form of plant growth, but also the species which can attain such growth. For example, Acer saccharum is a tree SPECIES and the embryoes in its keys are trees also, like it or not.
Bottom left is not an argument.
Bottom right is also the worst of red herrings, which has already been discussed because human is not a synonym for person. And that isn't even a human - it's the parts of a human, but it will be one momentarily.
>>74754937
>a child should be their punishment for their idiocy
At the low low price of ruining someone's childhood.
>>74754773
Different pregnancies develop at different rates. Can you really be 100% sure that the 30th week is the deadline? Can you even be sure you know the conception day? What's the % chance you're ending a life? Unless you can tell by examining the fetus directly it has no thoughts by your definition it can not be killed.
I don't agree with the idea that "conscience" equals personhood. Because moreover our brain functions develop as we age. our brains are not fully developed until we reach our early 20's. Conscience isn't a snap of the fingers sort of thing, it happens gradually. And therefor ending any fertilized's eggs life is wrong and evil.
>>74754779
Feel free to tell us about when you were a newborn. Welp, guess we can throw babies in woodchippers now
A fetus is a human, but not a person.
>>74754411
So in your opinion this fetus is actually a human?
>>74752366
Run a DNA test.
>>74754779
Tell me of the time you were 1 years old. Perhaps we should also kill infants. Maybe if they don't have the eye color we want or they are not the boy we wished for.
>>74755139
What's the kid going to do?
>a bloo bloo my childhood was bad :*(
No, people who have bad childhoods end up being proper citizens, and won't cry over times that didn't matter.
>>74755273
I really wish Planned Parenthood would stop fucking shilling on 4chan.
>>74754726
So your argument is that we are preventing an egg from becoming something that would be conscious. Why can this not apply to our haploid cells? They are just as consciences as a zygote.
It is a human cell however you want to look at it.
>>74754832
Totally agree, although I'm completely against abortion, if you going to murder you're own child then you should at least admit the truth of what you are doing.
>>74752366
Sure, since gametes are humanit makes sense a fetus would be.
>>74755273
Who fucking cares what it looks like? If looking like a human was a prerequisite of personhood your mother would've been killed the moment she was born.
>>74755273
>>74754726
You don't know if they're ever going to be conscious*
>>74755457
>applying consciousness to single cells
>>74755243
I will become a person though if you don't kill it.
That's the important bit.
>>74755676
>leftists will kill this with no hesitation
And they say the right are the bloodthirsty ones.
>>74755335
>Perhaps we should also kill infants.
>implying the Romans didn't do this.
>>74755460
The fun part is how the conversation spins off out of their control. So after you say they're human and it's okay to kill them, then they'll say
>no, they're NOT human beings!
>What difference does it make? Are you saying it would be wrong to kill them if they WERE?
>Y-yes
>>74755273
>Melt your face
>Cut off your limbs
>Cut ears
>Gouge out the eyes
>Cut off the tongue
You'd become less human that a fetus, because a fetus would gain traits, and you'd just continue losing them.
>>74755788
Right, and your cum could become a person if you put it in a woman. We can talk about potentials all day. The fact is, a fetus is not a person, it is not even conscious. We euthanize people who lose conscious permanently but still have a beating heart.
>>74755916
"we"?
>>74755410
>>74755607
>>74755676
You do realize this isn't a human right?
>>74755885
than*
>>74755762
So abortion is just, as long as it does not experience consciousness.
>>74756017
Yeah I'd say so.
>>74755980
Yes that is the word I used.
>>74755986
Yeah, sometimes I misidentify plebs as humans too, due to their looks, but whenever I talk to them I know that they don't have a soul.
>>74755986
It's a human, just not a full grown one. Just like an infant is a human, but not full grown. A woman's cunt is not a magical gateway into a different dimension that one must pass through before becoming a real boy.
>>74755986
Yes but like I said:
>>74755607
>>74755986
Lol /pol/ faggots BTFO
>>74756130
So killing humans is okay?
>>74752366
Seriously? It is part of the cycle of human life. What else would it be?
>>74755986
What is your argument exactly? Do you have one? I think we really need to start defunding Planned Parenthood. And I'm a liberal. You fuckers have gotten away with far too much evil. Margaret Sanger would be horrified with what PP has become.
>>74756166
Yeah dude it wasn't funny the first time.
>>74754411
>>74755410
>>74755607
>>74755676
>>74755885
>>74753114
>>74754308
>>74754726
>>74755211
>>74755457
>ITT PEOPLE WHO CAN'T READ OR SPELL
"The Pre-persons" is a science fiction short story by Philip K. Dick. It was first published in Fantasy and Science Fiction magazine, October 1974.
The story was a pro-life response to Roe v. Wade. Dick imagines a future where the United States Congress has decided that abortion is legal until the soul enters the body. The specific instant is defined by the administration, at present the moment a person has the ability to perform simple algebraic calculations (around the age of 12).
The main protester — a former Stanford mathematics major — demands to be taken to the abortion center, since he claims to have forgotten all his algebra.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pre-persons
>>74756213
In many contexts it is okay, especially in this one when it's not even a person.
>>74755211
If you're not sure, you can always measure the brain activity. Or, if you want to get strictly by the time, you can set up, f.e. 24wk as a deadline, leaving you a hefty time reserve. Or you can get a hybrid system
- below 24wk, off without regrets,
- 24-30wk after a brain scan,
- 30+wk no killing possible...
You be still killing a potential somebody, who could have done great deeds or another hillary, and you'll never know. But thats something for you to live with...
>>74756130
"we" also kill infants in the womb. This debate isn't about how loved ones deal with their brainddead family. I don't agree with them. Just as I don't agree on killing innocent infants.
>>74756161
>cat fetus
>elephant fetus
Or so. I have no idea of what early human fetuses look like. He might just be naming human fetuses as animal fetuses. However, a DNA test and a simple motherhood test should apply...
>>74755826
>romans had perfect morals
>roman society didn't collapse due to its own degeneracy
>>74756335
So, it applies to sociopaths/psychopaths as well?
>>74756242
Well I guess my only argument is that the picture is of a cat fetus you fucking moron.
>>74756409
That should be the base position of a sensible person. Leftists want abortion to go to the moment when you give birth. Some after.
>>74756423
Infant refers to a born baby, or at least a fully developed one.
>>74756519
No fuckass, I'm talking about war, self defense, law enforcement, saving someone else's life, capital punsihment etc.
>>74755826
>Implying china did not do this
>>74756300
Read what? Your insistence that animal embryos are proof that abortion is good? You're a retarded shill. Get fucked. Then keep the child to term.
>>74756541
Who gives a fuck? What point is that supposed to make? So If I post a chicken egg, does that mean I win the debate?
>>74756445
Indeed. A one year old gorilla is more intelligent than a one year old human because gorillas mature faster and obviously have a different genome.
Either way, I support the killing of unborn children. I'm pro-abortion, and pro personhood.
>>74756445
Or a reverse google image search maybe?
>>74756541
Yes we all read filenames. You were not "rusing" anyone. We were arguing the fact.
I'd be okay with abortion if the mother was required to die too, except in the case of a rape resulting in pregnancy.
Liberals tend to justify abortion by saying the fetus isn't conscious. The mother definitely isn't conscious either then, if she decided to let Chad cum inside when she knew full well she's not ready for children.
>>74756634
His point was that you were calling it a human when it wasn't a human to prove that you barely know what one looks like and it's less than a human/person you retarded fuck.
>>74756617
>No fuckass, I'm talking about
>when it's not even a person
>>74756617
>Infant refers to a born baby, or at least a fully developed one.
As much as the left would love me to dehumanize the unborn, I choose not to.
>>74756335
Great news. Time to go lynch some niggers
>>74756779
I was referring to the other contexts where killing humans is okay, you know how I feel about abortions already.
>>74756803
Good for you.
>>74756860
Not okay, not what I was referring to
>>74756763
>when it wasn't a human
When did it ever resemble a leftist?
>doesn't know what dehumanization is
>>74752366
No, it's a turtle.
>>74756803
Good. Now grow a pair and support free abortion on demand. Hell, I'd fucking PAY people to get abortions.
>>74756922
>I was referring to the other contexts where killing humans is okay
and you gave and example of 'when they aren't even a person', so I assumed you apply it to all 'non-persons'. So, what about stoners who reach ego-death?
pls don't kill me
t. zygote
>>74756942
It was a cat you fucking retard, he was showing you that you don't know what you're talking about.
>>74757029
Are you trying to be retarded on purpose or are you actually retarded?
>>74756592
They aren't completely wrong, you know. As it should be allowed in special cases, i. e. it is found later that the product of your quick in-and-out is a cripple that may not live up to it's third birthday...
>>74757161
>he was showing you that you don't know what you're talking about.
No, he was simply using the similarity of images to cause confusion. My points are not related to the images, actually, but the humanity of the unborn child.
In his case it would be the catness or the elephantiness of the unborn, though. I think that we have as much right to kill them as we have right to kill elephants and cats.
It's just a red herring. A joke/ruse at best.
>Are you trying to be retarded on purpose or are you actually retarded?
When does a person become a person? What are the qualifiers? When you feel like it?
>>74752366
You're basically ending an unique genetic identity, no matter if you call it an human or not.
There's nothing wrong with abortion. Read this and judge when the line crosses from removing a parasite to murdering a human. That being said I support abortion until around weeks 8-10 depending on how far along the fetus is
http://www.babycenter.com/fetal-development-week-by-week
>>74754411
>>74755607
>>74755676
>>74755885
>885â–¶>>74755990 >>74756300
>>74756138
you do realize the guy is posting animal fetuses...
not all fetus are human.. it really depends on what is carrying the babay
>>74756634
I never insisted anything, besides the fact that my pictures wheren't of human fetuses.
My point is i win the debate yes, OP asked whether or not a fetus is a human and I proved it isn't necessarily.
>>74757566
It gains its humanity when
>it's alive
>it has human dna
Doesn't matter if it is nigger, psycho, fetus, leftist, it still technically counts as human, be it 10, 30 or 0 years old.
>>74757433
Yes, yes everything and everyone is a snowflake and deserves to live and it is a great national loss if it doesn`t.
Come on /pol/, you`re better than this.
>>74757427
The qualifier is consciousness and higher order thinking. A fetus is not conscious for almost the entire time.
>>74757625
Note that I am speaking only of 'a fetus', not directly answering your questions. Although I have less and less reasons to keep your status of humanity above that of an animal fetus.
The joys of humanism, I can change and choose definitions.
>>74757898
>The qualifier is consciousness and higher order thinking.
So plebs don't really apply.
>>74757898
Hey, do you lose your humanity if you lose consciousness? Technically, you'd wake up in the future, but in the meanwhile you are a "fetus".
>>74757776
>30 year old fetus
u wot m8
Do you believe it's murder during the fertilization phase? I feel like people that outright oppose abortion know nothing about biology.
>>74757981
You are actually mentally retarded.
>>74758072
>>74758072
>Hey, do you lose your humanity if you lose consciousness?
No you shitdick, you had it and you will get it back when you wake up. A fetus that you flush never even has consciousness
>>74758093
>fetus
I am defining what constitutes as human. 30 year old humans are human, they don't lose it even after brainwashing.
>>74756763
No I'M not. I'm calling a HUMAN fetus a HUMAN because that, scientifically is what it fucking IS. This isn't open to debate. Crack a fucking high school biology text, you fucking morons.
Anyobody have that when does life begin image with the witches dancing in a circle?
>>74758093
I say kill them all.
>>74758173
>You are actually mentally retarded.
No. My ability to question the higher cognitive functions of lower capacity humans is not indication of retardation.
>>74758173
>A fetus that you flush never even has consciousness
Why does it matter if it _had_ consciousness? It stops having it, so it stops being human.
>>74757008
How about you grow a pair and kill your shill self. That would reduce the population and get rid of one its more cancerous elements. Don't be a hypocrite now.
Not if it's a nonwhite subhuman.
With this argumentation we can easily assume that a condom is basically murder, because you prevent the development of a unique being that would eventually develop a consciousness and that might do great things.
>>74758266
I don't mean what you consider to be intelligent, I'm talking about consciousness, a form of higher order thinking.
>>74758193
My point is that you weren't able to differentiate a human from a cat at this stage, that was his point as well.
>>74758323
never having it =/= temporarily losing it for seconds and then getting it back
>>74752366
Indisputable: A fetus is human
Questionable: Is it """""""a"""""""" human?
>>74752366
Who cares? Human life is infinitely replaceable.
>>74757865
I've never said that faggot, I'm pro-choice, but you have to think what are you doing.
>>74757704
>I never insisted anything, besides the fact that my pictures wheren't of human fetuses
And not one person insisted they were. You're being an idiot and a paid shill. Get off my /pol/, you unfuckable cunt.
>>74758541
>My point is that you weren't able to differentiate a human from a cat at this stage, that was his point as well.
Says you. It's obviously a fucking cat, moron. Ever heard of embryology? And again, posting cat and elephant fetuses don't prove any argument unless you're trying to argue that shills should be allowed on /pol/ (they shouldn't) or that you're retarded (you are).
>>74758569
Person is the term you're looking for. I say no.
>>74758569
Read the thread mate, your argument has been disproved.
>>74758457
I'm the LEAST hypocritical person here. I'm pro-abortion, and I have the intellectual honesty to admit that fetuses are unborn children, and unborn children are human beings.
We simply take a different moral position on the implications of that reality. I would NEVER support the abortion of one of my children, but no amount brow beating is going to convince the masses to do what they want and kill their own children. They should at least have to face the full reality of their decisions, and I refuse to coddle them and say "it's not human" so those people can avoid a guilt trip. Fuck them.
Kill your unborn children. I don't give a fuck. I'm not killing mine though.
>>74758722
A fetus is not a person, it is not conscious. You are a diva little faggot who gets upset at flushing a bundle of tissue with no thoughts.
>>74758871
i heavily pro life and anti abortion but i respect your position
if all these people were open about their slaughtering of little children and still support it what can i say
i only hate that they pretend to be the ones having the moral highground when in fact they do not
this is what really pisses me off
A fetus is obviously human, but at the same time I advocate genocide for the majority of non-whites.
>>74754376
This tbqh familia.
>>74758722
Actually this guy did.
>>74756161
I wish I was being paid for rusing you but sadly I'm not.
>>74759140
>he claims the moral high ground
>he probably believes in genocide or extermination of at least one group
>>74759489
>he probably believes in genocide or extermination of at least one group
actually i don't
Doesn't matter.
Society shouldn't be forcing people who are this desperate to put themselves ahead of their offspring to contribute to the next generation. The people who are choosing to raise them voluntarily are bad enough.
>>74759599
I'm sure.
>>74759713
but you are wrong about it and i just told you
i dont care what you think
im anti abortion and i dont support the genocide of a particular group
>>74758871
You're a sociopath who obviously believes that abortion is great. Why?
>>74758888
>A fetus is not a person
Nobody claimed it was, PP. Go give a nigress a vaginal exam and shut your facecunt.
>a bundle of tissue
Guess what else is "muh clump of cells", moron.
>>74758888
>A fetus is not a person, it is not conscious
Great now I can murder any infant I encounter.
obviously yes
No, you're not really a human until you turn 18. That's why you can't vote or decide your own destiny. Until then you are property of your parents.
>>74752366
>Is a fetus a human
No. It is potentially a human.
This applies to kids up to the point of self-realization too. Just IMO.
That doesn't mean they are worthless and should be disposed off on a whim. It does mean their lives are of lesser value than that of a human. I would say they fall somewhere between a pet and a person.
>>74752366
>Is a fetus a human?
David Rockefeller : "Nope, this is my meal !"
>>74752366
yes. but it's not necessarily a person until his brain is somewhat developed.
>>74759973
Infants are conscious
>>74759973
Infants are conscious cocknocker.
>>74759957
>Quotes half of a sentence to strawman my argument
I included no thoughts
>>74752604
...yes
>>74758527
Nope. Sperm isn't alive. Fetuses are.
>>74753776
When it's born
So what constitutes being a human-being?
Consciousness is not reserved for humans alone, so why should I give a fuck about making a rational choice and not becoming a teenage-dad, thereby ruining my own life and my child's, when I don't give a fuck about how conscious my bacon used to be?
Wouldn't it be better if Cletus stopped having a bunch of redneck children who would grow up to have shitty lives and contribute nothing to society?
>>74760360
>when it's born
are you aware that children sometimes have to get taken out of the mothers womb cause of some complications? this can happen very early
they can still survive and live a healthy life ...
this is the achievement of capitalism and modern medicine .. something the leftists really hate
when does it "get born" by your definition then?
>>74760526
> So what constitutes being a human-being?
Human DNA
> Consciousness is not reserved for humans alone
And you get in bigger trouble for torturing and killing a dog than you do for torturing and killing a cockroach
>>74760646
Does "born" have a difficult definition in Germany?
>>74759957
Society should tell people who kill their unborn children that they ARE killing their unborn children, and let them have at it. The retardation of the whole debate comes from pro-abortion ("pro-choice", the Orwellian marketing slogan) people deluding themselves with the belief that they aren't committing infanticide, so they don't have to feel bad.
Abortions would probably go down if everyone would just admit that it's a human being, but that would be too hard on people's feelings, and then everyone would become anti-abortion, so they deny the humanity issues, an we continue to go round and round and round with this bullshit.
Kill your kids. I don't give a shit anymore. I'm looking forward to that male birth control pill that's going to last for 6 months. I'd hand that shit out for FREE, and men won't get offended because their not emotion driven children like women are.
I don't give a FUCK anymore. Let the 3rd worlders with 85 IQs take over. Abort your kids. Fuck it.
>>74759957
>A fetus is not a person
>Nobody claimed it was
>you're a sociopath
And you're a coward.
>>74760526
Some people shouldn't be allowed to have children in my opinion, just like some age-groups shouldn't.
The problem with this mentality however is, who gets to decide when a person is unfit as a parent.
>>74760656
But my sperm contains my human DNA?
Does that mean I'm a mass-murderer?
Don't answer my question, cause we both know your argument is invalid.
>And you get in bigger trouble for torturing and killing a dog than you do for torturing and killing a cockroach
What exactly is your point?
>>74752366
Are babies human?
>>74761073
No, because it's not a person. Don't reply to my post because the thread's already discussed personhood vs being human, and you're incapable of reading it the first time
>>74752917
gibberish
>>74753461
if its not a human, then how does a non human thing become human. This thinking is worse than transubstantiation nonsense.
Its human.
>>74760732
no there is simply no such thing
you can't just claim its born when it comes out of the mothers vagina when babies get "born" in multiple other ways all the time you fucking moron
there are babies who had to get out as early as 5 months or so that survived
hows it ok in case 1 to kill a 8 month old baby but in case 2 its not ok cause its 5 months old and "got born"
you are fucking retarded
>>74761073
Sperm doesn't contains the necessary chromosomes to be a human, let's not get all retarded
>>74761293
Oh someone's butthurt.
That's just fucking semantics and you know it.
My point remains the same.
Is an egg a chicken?
>>74761518
> I think premature births disprove the concept of birth
> Other people are retarded
>>74752366
Personhood begins the moment conception happens.
You can have all the hocus pocus dance around the camp fire definitions of life like when it's heart beat or when (x) brain wave criteria is met OR you can be a logical person and realize that the moment a sperm fertilizes an egg and the resulting interaction begins to form a unique human being that this is the black and white moment you can argue a new person has been created.
Abortion is murder.
>>74761378
Through chemistry'n biology'n so on.
You did miss the point however, cause that's a dog fetus bro.
>>74761600
It's not semantics in the slightest.
Read: >>74752724
>>74752917
>>74753114
>>74754127
>>74754308
>>74754779
Why show up in a 150 post old thread and make the same points? Just peruse and see if there's anything with lots of replies if nothing else, so you see what's been debated
>>74761613
balut
>>74755103
>the fertilized egg is a chiken
today my breakfast was a chiken?
fuck logic
>>74761555
So your point is that humanity is defined by chromosomes?
>>74752366
Abortion is taking a life
Feminists are stupid and nobody likes them
>>74753591
are you ironically saying niggers are humans too?
>>74754527
>dna doesn't define us
KEK
its not a human, but its human
>>74752366
Depends...
Is it white?
>>74752366
Assuming you're talking about a human fetus then yes. If you're talking about a horse fetus then no, but that's the point of descriptors... fetus in general I'd have to say no as there's not enough information to determine if it is or not.
>>74760204
>I included no thoughts
its time to take a break anon
>>74761820
Oh but it is, as being a human can mean many things. If you read carefully you would see I've actually been posting in this thread long enough to know exactly what kind of bullshit people have been spewing at each other throughout this thread.
If you want to latch on to the fact that i said "human-being" and not "person", be my guest, but that doesn't change my point.
>>74760842
not an argument
Are seeds flowers?
>>74753114
It doesn't. Personhood comes after birth.
>>74762432
Neither is a bullet to the head, but it shuts people up.
>>74753075
What if the child would've been born into poverty?
>>74762460
Human reproduction is different. Flowers massively reproduce because they are helpless. 2 humans made the conscious decision to mate and go through a lengthy process. The baby is born before copulation.
>>74762028
what an utterly tragic misunderstanding
>>74762583
prove it
>>74762606
what is rape.
what are accidents.
Only if both of the parents are white
>>74762574
What if you're born 2 months early? What if you're born 4 months early? What if we can incubate a fetus outside of the womb for the whole 9 months? What does "birth" mean then?
Technology is going to make the whole "birth" concept moot, and then you sick fucks are going to reveal your true views, just like me, and admit you don't really give a shit about life because you'll say it's STILL okay to kill a fetus even if it's 100% viable with future medical technology.
>>74762705
Did you just ask me to kill you?
>>74762583
Sure about that?
If he isn't a nigger
>>74762595
>the solution to social woes, poverty, & and broken homes is infanticide
W E W L A D
E
W
L
A
D
>>74762746
Yeah but the overwhelming majority of pregnancies are not rapes. Accidents are an extension of lack of self control or 'accidental' self interest which falls in the same basket as rape.
>>74762746
>what is rape
a snuggle with a struggle
>what are accidents
"What...she tripped, fell, LANDED ON HIS DICK?"
If you have sex with a pregnant woman does it make you a child molestor? Or is it okay to stick your dick in a baby's crib, too?
>>74762829
All I said was prove it bud ;)
>>74762358
Read the rest of the conversation.
>>74762796
With "after birth" I meant that it comes a few weeks or even months after birth. A newborn baby has no real consciousness either.
>>74762746
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accident
Here you go friend.
>>74752366
They are human cells, just like sperm and eggs. They are clusters of cells that have the potential to develop into a human. I don't consider anything alive until it is viable.
>>74763094
So we can kill newborn infants sometime in the first few weeks if we want to. I agree. Lets pass the law. But when will the cutoff be? 3 weeks? 4 weeks?
>>74762595
It is your responsibility to give your offspring a good life. If you are not sure you can ascertain that, it is better to give it to adoption, sell it for organs or outright kill it while you can. If you can stomach that, of course.
>>74762651
>a toddler isn't an adult
>>74762956
I disproved it.>>74762839
This pro-choice/pro-life argument is old. We all know what the real issue is. Should people fuck without consequence? The ability to get instant gratification without any effort is what has dragged us down as a civilization. Birth control also gets into our water supply, making men into beta males. Why do you think city boys are so much more feminine than country men? To be honest, I think we need to find an alternative way to solve overpopulation. Maybe just castrate those unable to raise kids. We need to find a way to weed out the r type maggots and make humans K type again.
>>74763266
Just because their memory hasn't developed yet doesn't mean they're not conscious yet, you sociopath.
>>74763473
The question is how to do this and who gets to decide it.
>>74763573
So it's only about consciousness? Okay, so we can kill fetuses and people in comas. Cool. Pass the law.
>>74752366
The zygote is the ersliest form of human life, it is basic biological science.
https://www.ehd.org/prenatal-images.php?thum_id=11
>>74763573
If theynare not consious yet, do they know they are living? And if they don't know whether or not they are alive or not, does it make a difference for them? And if it doesn't, should it for you?
>>74763716
We've already been over this, it's different when a person has already had consciousness and then has a chance to regain. But if you can say for sure that the person in coma isn't going to wake up again, I say take him of the life-support.
>>74763929
>has a chance to regain
So they're POTENTIAL conscious human beings, you say?
>>74763768
If they're not conscious they don't know they're alive.
The stuff about making a difference pretty much becomes moot after this.
Are we still discussing infants? Cause if so you've misunderstood what i wrote.
>>74763716
Well with people in comas there is still the possibility that they wake up again and I don't want to be killed if I fall into a coma one day.
You should ask yourself the question "could it happen to me?". If we legalize abortions and the killing of newborn babies it definitely doesn't affect me so I'm ok with it.
>>74763716
People in comas are killed by there families all the time. They call it "pulling the plug" Fucking retard.
And who gives a fuck in a baby is human or not, kill the nigglets any way you can.
>>74762843
indeed
>>74763714
To make the West masculine again we will need to:
1. Ban all porn and birth control. Both encourage instant gratification and make men feminine.
2. Castrate those who cannot make an income for those other than themselves. They will die out without any sort of quick r-type genocide being performed.
3. Change the education system. Improve phys ed for all, and put girls into cooking classes. Make sure gender distinction is made at a very young age.
4. Put heavy taxes on processed food, light drugs (ex marijuana), cigarettes, and alcohol. Make propaganda against it that will cause the consumption of these to be socially unacceptable.
5. Have some sort of racial awareness. Don't cause people to hate other groups, but make people proud of their own heritage.
Unfortunately I do not know who is capable of implementing this.
>>74764103
Making a straw-man isn't an argument.
>>74764415
Declaring 'straw-man' isn't an argument either.
technically life is created far earlier on, but then again we shouldn't be so sensitive to this gay shit, i say kill all but 500 million humans to control the over population.
>>74764200
>>74764261
If you look back in the thread, I've already said I'm pro abortion. I'm just anti-cognitive dissonance, and delusional moral high grounds.
>>74752366
A skin cell is by definition human. So every time a cell dies you killed a human. But yes a fetus is human. Doesn't mean its existence has merit though.
Who cares, its most healthiest thing you can eat. When I ate human fetuses, I felt better than when I was 12.
>>74764191
So basically, if one is not conscious, it is ok to off it; because it does't make a difference for it.
Doesn't matter who or what.
>>74764640
this
I think castration will work fine. The third world is overpopulated, causing them to live miserable lives.
>>74764720
I prefer blood transfusions from prepubescent children.
>>74764528
Yes it is.
I argued that your "argument" was a straw-man. If you need me to tell you why, I really don't see any reason to be discussing this with you.
>>74764869
Shenanigans!
>>74752366
Not if its a nigger.
>>74764786
I did not say this.
However if something doesn't ever have a chance to obtain consciousness (referring to the person in a coma) or hasn't ever been conscious ( referring to the human fetus) then yes, it's okay to "off it".
>>74764640
>>74764814
Why not just invent a gmo that makes people infertile?
>>74765294
>Why not just invent a gmo that makes people infertile?
>this hasn't already been invented
>>74765145
so, the question is: where lies the cut-off line? what criteria do you propose to be appropriate?
>>74752724
Fuck that's a great simple explanation anon.
>>74765646
cut-off line for abortion?
Between 8 and 24 weeks i guess. I don't really have a degree in fetal development so I can't tell you for sure when the brain in my opinion becomes conscious.
I do know however that Americans allow abortion very late in the pregnancy which I'm against.
>>74766609
actually I take this back, 24 weeks is way to late lol. 16 weeks tops.
>>74752366
That depends. Is it white?
>>74766609
theres no cut off line
day 1 it will become a human being .. life a live, see the sun
same holds true after 4 weeks .. its a journey .. life starts when the sperm meets the egg
a 4 year old kid wil lbecome a teenager, a teenager will become an adult
you cant just say you are going to kill the teenager cause its not a grown men yet with enough life experience
your line of thought is stupid. You either think its not a human being at all and you can do whatever you want with it or you think its a human being but at this point all your 8 weeks, 16 weeks, 24 weeks memes don't apply anymore
You are not in charge of who gets to live and who does not.
>>74766609
8 weeks are too early, one only starts to develop brain cells at that time...
24-28 is better, but still not quite good. technically until your brain activity is still valid (aka there are some waves on the eeg) you are considered 'alive'. and around that time fetus gets his first stable wave... so unles that time it is not considered alive...
and there is the conscience - which we all know happens a little bit later, one becomes self-conscient and self-aware in childhood.
Thus you are a little bit contradicting yourself...
>>74767210
I have a question: if something is not alive, can it be killed?
>>74767210
This is all just a matter of opinion.
I don't really care what you think, clearly you will grow up some day and see the world is not as black and white as you paint it.
>>74767210
This is the kind of shit that makes serious stem cell research impossible. Killing a lump of human cells isn't murder
>>74767768
no but like i said .. the whole questions revolves around "when does life begin?" ...
to me its quite obvious and simple .. it starts when the sperm meets the egg and the magic happens
to you it might be later but i dont see how you can reasonably explain this?
>its not conscious, it doesnt have a brain
what do you know about conscioussness ..since when is the science settled on it anyway?
EVEN IF ... IT WILL ... ALWAYS BECOME A HUMAN BEING no matter what (yes sometimes there are complications but you get what i mean)
you are preventing this by killing it ...
>>74768074
>a matter of opinion
i think im the one with the facts here .. all you have is mere speculation about what might happens or might not have happened
i know its going to become a human being one day, i know there are things happening when the sperm meets the egg .. this is where all human life has started at one point so to me its the start
>>74768177
>a lump of human cells
that would be you and me aswell .. if i kil lyou i just erased a lump of human cells from the face of the earth and its not murder right?
good fine .. where do we meet
