How do Libertarians deal with this?
If the road owner doesn't want to fix it, the road will remain broken, there's no solution.
>>74731738
>>74731738
Who wants to use the road in this scenario?
>>74731738
Persons who have a vested interest in the road will maintain the road or build new roads.
>>74731912
It's private property, you cannot maintain it or you'll be shot.
>>74731738
He may not desire to repair the road as he himself has no use for the road, but concerned parties may negotiate with him about repair and usage of the road.
Example: concerned farmers comes to an agreement with the road owner. They will repair the road and a contract is signed, letting the farmers use the road for 10 years in exchange for an annual fee
>>74732128
Alternatively: construct a road elsewhere
>>74731957
Then people who have vested interest in roads will build new roads.
>>74732192
>>74732163
>put roads everywhere
>30 tolls before arriving to work
How did we started building roads without romans? HOW DID WE?
>>74731957
>be shot.
But the only people doing the shooting in La France are rag-heads.
>>74731738
Free market created airplanes, computers, internet, cell phones, shitloads of electronics, satellites, medicines, Tv, wifi, bluetooth etc etc etc
I think its not impossible to fucking create a flat road top kek, many factors more difficult things they solved so why cant they solve an easy thing as a flat road? Is an aircraft less advanced?
>>74732250
Honestly, how is that different from what we have now? Except the tolls are taken from you in tax regardless if you use the roads.
>>74731885
Bingo.
The goberment has to pay for things. Stop being a libertardian. REEEEEEEEE
Government healthcare
Government infustructure
Government education/law enforcement
Government oversight over big business
That's it you stupid cucks. No more debate. Goberment shall not infringe further and state laws trump federal laws
Materials advances driven by free market competition in the absence of artificial monopolies would result in advanced, cheap roads that never crack.
>>74732250
But the road is fixed! (main problem)
>>74731738
If you were in a libertarian society how would you deal with it?
>>74732917
This
>>74731738
In a libertarian world, we won't need roads. We'll all get helicopters.
Roads dont cost very much. Libertarians advocate a small government, not a nonexistent one.
This stupid FEAR let people believe and trust in government.
"Let someone else do it". What a stupid fear.
It will just lead to centralisation of power, and since the time of Jesus all centralisation of power have lead to corruption.
If we can build rockets and airplanes, roads seems to be a very easy thing to do.
With all brainpower and will available im sure this issue would be solved.
>>74732917
Migrate to a country that isn't somalia.
>>74731853
BLOWN
THE
FUCK
OUT
!!!!!!!!!!!
>*current year*
>roads
COME ON
>>74731738
reductio ad absurdum detected
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYhUytwoWOA
>>74731738
In a true libertarian world, I would kill the owner for neglecting his duties, take over the road and repair it. I would reduce the previous toll by 10% and continue with other roads. Over many years I would then become a motorway tycoon.
>>74732421
It involves zero sum land use, so yes, socially it is more complicated than all those other things you mentioned.
Of course the free market could fix roads, but it's the new state of mind. Fee for service only applies when I ENJOY the service. If I NEED the service then it becomes a positive social right.
Look into water rights if you truly want to appreciate this vein of arrogance and entitlement.
>>74731738
BUT WHO WILL BUILD THE ROADS?
I don't understand this argument.
I'm a libertarian, and honestly there are ways you can argue against it, but roads?!
Roads are built by private companies. The most complex, busy and expensive ones are actually operated by companies (that's certainly true here).
I'm a libertarian with a tank m8.
Roads are for pussies.
>>74732421
do u even realize the military created all of those?
>>74734210
No, the government builds roads obviously
>>74734192
not an argument.
>>74731738
You drive around it on a road that is still good.
The owner is shooting himself in the foot in this scenario. No one will want to use the road so he won't be able to charge tolls. It is a very unrealistic scenario since the owner will have invested money in the aquisition of the land and the construction of the road, so he wants to see a return on his investment. Keeping the road in mint condition is in his best interest.
This one was easy. Give me something harder, like air pollution.
>>74732263
Either the local government built them or dirt trails created through excessive use were created
>they still think modern libertarianism means literally no government
I guess that means the democrats are trying to keep their rights to own niggers as slaves as well.
Political ideologies evolve.
>>74732519
>healthcare
>government
no
>infurstructure
like? all of that can be private, even military stuff though obviously thats not the best idea.
>oversight
thats just menial deskjob work, and could be handled by a neutral non profit organization.
>education
private schools
>law enforcement
the only legitimate use of government other than directing the military during wartime.
though again
>private security
I like the Libertarian response of "build a new road" like you could look at a parallel libertarian America and 40% of the country is just poorly maintained roads
>>74735377
What if his road is the only road to a certain place, or the only main road in the area? Then he has a monopoly and no incentive to fix the road, because people will have to use it regardless of its condition.
You're free to choose another road to use. If the road owner doesn't want to fix his road he won't get paid. The consumers will use another road. Simple as that
That's what competition is for ya dingus
If they don't fix it someone else will
>>74731738
>If the road owner doesn't want to fix it, the road will remain broken, there's no solution.
What if the government doesn't want to fix it?
Love how statists point at problems that exist under governments, then pretend libertarians are the cause of those problems
>>74739138
>cities are already a maze of roads and alternate routes
>everyone in the country has a truck making road condition irrelevant
>city people hate the county and thus never leave their urban safe spaces except by air travel
problem solved.
>>74739273
someone else builds a new road and under cuts him.
monopolies do not exist without government involvment.
>>74732661
Roadbase and tarmacadam is pretty much as good as it gets costwise and reuseability. Cracking is inevitable due to the ground under the road shifting through use and weathering.
>>74732421
>Free market created the internet
no
>>74739520
>What if the government doesn't want to fix it?
Then they get voted out lol.
The bigger problem is how the road gets built in the first place without the use of eminent domain. I love how people act like they are economists because they watched a couple Milton Friedman lectures online but haven't heard of the bilateral monopoly holdout problem.
>>74731738
No one will use road
Road owner will stop seeing profit
Some lad makes his own road and maintains it, gets used more, makes more money
Second roadowner buys first road because first roadowner is seeing no profits
Either lose money or fix road
CAPITALISM IN ACTION
>>74739273
Someone else builds another road. The only scenario where this wouldn't happen is if the owner owned a piece of land so large that building another road is impossible.
>>74739138
No, you misunderstand. If someone else builds another road, the owner of the poorly maintained road loses. He is not a retard, hence he knows this, and maintains the road. No poorly maintained roads.
>>74739752
Governments can be voted out by a few hundred people who use a road?
Also
>what are fixed terms
I think you'll find it's the road owner who'll lose profit and directly and instantly suffers as a result of not maintaining his road, not a government.
>>74739652
Where? You can't just buy hundred of houses and destroy them to make another road.
And what if he own the roads around your house? You will have to buy at least a small part of his road to build another road. If he refuse to sell, you have to deal with his roads.
>>74739752
Tell that to South Africa. The place has been collapsing for a few decades and apparently the solution has been right in front of them the whole time.
>>74739813
>No one will use road
>No one go to work
>Starve because you can't even sell your stuff or buy food
CAPITALISM IN ACTION!
>>74731738
A libertarian society would simply invent hover-cars.
>>74739989
South Africa have worse problems than shitty roads, but, hey, at least, no more apartheid.
>>74740017
>Roads are the only method of travel
>>74740034
Can't hoover above someone else propriety. The problem is not solved.
>>74740017
>4x4s do not exist
>>74740124
>Have to buy an helicopter or a jetpack to go to work or to go to the mall
Sure, what could go wrong?
>>74740175
You can't travel offroad if it is someone else propriety, and every bit of land is owned by someone.
>>74740234
You're assuming the road owner doesn't give a shit about losing profit.
Also
>what are lawsuits
Quite simply, you're retarded
>>74731738
Most libertarians are fine with the idea of toll roads. Most libertarians would be fine with a fuel tax that is earmarked for the infrastructure surrounding roads. Quit bringing up strawmen, faggot frog.
>>74731738
>minimal government implies no collectively owned property based on contractual agreement
Nice argument you got there buddy.
>>74731853
Fpbp
Whenever it snows in Canada, you can always expect a business parking lot and driveways to be clear and plowed MUCH sooner than the cities.
You never see any potholes in a working business parking lot or driveways because any property owner
The roads around the businesses would be collectively maintained (like a condo complex) by the surrounding businesses
Meanwhile private toll high ways and roadways are well maintained compared to public ones
>>74739942
I love how you keep narrowing the scenario to increasingly unlikely options to make it seem like libertarism is flawed. A single person owns literally all the land and refuses to maintain it? Really?
How would a conventional society deal with a government that doesn't want to fix roads?
>>74740375
To these people, apparently the government just magically fabricates the construction equipment and supplies out of thin are.
>>74731738
Why did the government let the road get that bad? I mean, you never see potholes in government maintained roads, right? Right?
>>74739652
>monopolies do not exist without government involvment
Blatantly false. Private corporations are perfectly able to establish effective monopolies.
>>74740319
Why should he care about the two richfags who can afford an helicopter when all the others will have to accept any price he force them to pay?
And how are you going to sue him? All this is legal.
>>74740501
Sure, I am the one suggesting that two or more road networks should exist.
>>74740578
But the government is so afraid of losing a few votes, they'll fix it right away always.
Meanwhile le ebil cabidalist doesn't care about losing profit because he's so rich anyway
>>74732250
.....yep.
I'll be saving so much on taxes, that I'd be happy to pay for the amount of roads I use.
Here's the cool part: if I get sick and don't use the roads for a week, then I don't pay for their upkeep.
It's like buying a good or service, you pay for the part that you use
Image added to get people to read my post
>>74731738
Yeah and if the owner doesn't want to fix it then people will slowly start using other roads by other people who keep them in better conditions
How do Libertarians deal with this?
>>74740744
No one is arguing against that, moron
>>74740780
What if the owner of the road decide to not be fair and to ask $10 every time you get on a road?
>>74740912
How do Libertarians deal with this?
>>74740959
How do Libertarians deal with this?
>>74741008
How do Libertarians deal with this?
>>74740927
Please read:
>>74739813
>>74739652
>>74740751
>But the government is so afraid of losing a few votes, they'll fix it right away always.
KEK, the main road by me has had unfixed potholes for years, and it is government maintained. They're afraid to do more than partial short term fixes because they need more main roads with bridges over the river near me, and new bridges are political losers because of faggots who want to live here but don't want bridges/roads in their neighborhood. So the government would have to royally fuck traffic up to actually fix the potholes, and it doesn't want to do that.
>Meanwhile le ebil cabidalist doesn't care about losing profit because he's so rich anyway
How does that work with the actual toll roads that exist in the US already?
>>74741074
Can you even read? These people are literally suggesting a network of multilpe roads.
>>74731738
You know this France: Toll roads.
I spent over €100 Euros EACH WAY when driving to the Rhone Alpes in your country from Calais.
NEVER doing that again.
Pic unrelated.
while individuals would certainly be allowed to own roads I would hazard a guess that most roads would likely be owned by associations. The end result for people with memberships to use the road would probably be similar to dealing with the government: sometimes things break, sometimes you want them fixed immediately, sometimes it takes longer than you'd like.
>>74741070
How do Libertarians deal with this?
>>74740943
Does competition not exist in France?
>>74731957
Either make a deal or straight up make a new road
>>74740943
Then I would take another road.
In France, if there is an accident or construction on one road, are you not allowed to take another, parallel road, in order to reach your destination?
Are you required by law to use a certain road?
I don't understand how you couldn't think of this
>How do Libertarians deal with providing a service?
Probably the dumbest question ever posed by commies.
>mfw people make "whataboutdaroads" arguments
If people couldn't travel by road flying cars would have been invented 2 decades ago. More proof that libertarianism and competition drives innovation.
>>74731957
Well, we know that you're dumb enough to shoot a person who is expending time and resources to maintain your property.
>>74731738
not an argument
>>74741132
Yeah, a totally rational suggestion, right?
After all, five or six networks of roads who happen to never cross each other is a perfect alternative to a minimal state involvement in the economy.
>>74741137
For that price, I get 1000km of roads and the stop area around it. You will have to learn that they are privately owned. What if I buy the roads around your home and ask for $10 every time you want to get in or out?
>>74741575
>>74741586
>who happen to never cross each other
Whoa, where are you taking those goalposts boy?
>>74741248
Competition for roads exist only in Spain, and only for one kind of road.
>>74741401
>Then I would take another road.
Ho, shit, privately owned too! And probably by the same guy. Time to buy an helicopter or to pay the toll.
>>74741586
It is a totally rational suggestion.
Do you like being able to choose between coke and Pepsi? Or between different Breanna of chips, or wine, or anything else that you consume?
There are plenty of examples where people have separate things
>>74741248
You'd be surprised.
They had a socialist minister of economy bragging about organizing telecoms cartels.
The French are retarded as fuck when it comes to economics.
How do libertarians deal with this?
Hmmm?
HMMM?
B T F O
T
F
O
>>74741660
From there:
>>74741132
>Just build many road network
>Building many road network is a stupid idea
>Who, no one ever suggested we should build many road network
>>74741684
So one person owns all of the land in the world that's suitable for roads?
I thought you were trying to have a discussion, not just make up a bunch of things.
Here's my counter argument then: government involvement in things can lead to oppression, and government sanctioned murder.
You can't tell me it doesn't, because the government could (just like one person could own all the land in the world). The end, your side is wrong.
>>74741775
>libertarians are anarcho capitalists
>>74732268
Dude. Not cool.
>>74741684
>mfw I remember Europoors live in controlled economies and don't even understand the concept of competition and the free market
>>74741700
Funny the roads experiment has actually happened in Indiana -- they privatized a major interstate. What happened? They jacked up the prices, people stopped using the interstate, and the company went bankrupt. Road went back to the state of Indiana because no other private company was willing to pick it up.
You alt-righters are just like Marxists. Live in your fantasy world of economic theory. Falls flat into a pile of shit once it's confronted with the real world.
BTFO.
>>74741700
Pic related, the first road network is in red. Go one, build another one. The first owner won't sell any part of his land so you can't even cross one of his roads.
>>74741775
No one is saying the roads cannot cross each other.
A connection to another road would INCREASE the value of a road since said road would lead to more destinations. By all accounts an economically viable decision for the owner of the road. No one said the roads can't cross each other. You made that up.
>But what if no one allows his road to cross another a.k.a. everyone is retarded and doesn't understand economics?
Your next argument I presume?
>>74741429
>350 million cars flying around with no regulation
yeah ok guy
>>74741724
This was a real thing. 3 different company sold the same product for the same price for decades and no one could enter the market because of the huge investment needed to enter.
Ho, shit, free market create monopoly too! How does libertarians deal with facts?
>>74741960
Again, a single person would have to own all the land. This is a bullshit scenario.
More realistically each road would have a single owner and if one was bad you would use the remaining roads to move around it.
>>74741933
>Murifat
>Experiencing free markets
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_economic_freedom
You really are brainwashed by propaganda in the USA, aren't you? You honestly believe that your country is the land of the free and that the whole world is jealous of you and your """"freedoms""""
>>74741960
You are literally building a strawman assuming that people are not rational.
In practice people optimize their profits, which quite often requires cooperation.
That's why the PC industry was able to define standards like USB, instead of all having their own connectors.
When it comes to roads, interconnecting increases the value of both. Actually a better example that USB is simply the internet. It's not one network. It's actually many private networks connected together. Because connecting them increases the value of each.
Technically your ISP could charge you a trillion dollars. In practice, though, they only charge what you can afford to pay.
This is literally economics 101, but considering you're French you probably didn't learn this in school.
>>74742072
Naw m80, he's just dumb enough to shoot somebody who is expending time and resources to improve his property. Pay him no heed. He's French.
>>74742054
That was not a free market you moron, but a cartel controlled by the government because they collected airwave licensing fees (compare mobile prices with broadband Internet prices, where many operators were allowed to compete).
>>74741977
>No one is saying the roads cannot cross each other.
I do.
I own a fucking road, you are not going to build your other road network over my propriety. Now how are you going to build you miraculous competition?
And I don't care about the artificial value it have on some paper. I care about milking people as hard as I can. Allowing another road to be relied to mine make me loose money so I refuse. What are you going to do? Bridges are fucking expensive.
>>74742054
>cartel
>monopoly
>barriers to entry
>magically removed by government
>what is venture capitalism
literally kill yourself uneducated frog
>>74742184
It was. It ultimately ended when Free entered the market, thing he could have done if like you said the government artificially created the monopoly.
>>74731738
yes, let the government control every piece of infrastructure
>glorious USSR had fantastic roads
>>74742124
>In practice people optimize their profits, which quite often requires cooperation.
Not in this case. Here I build profit if I have a monopoly. I want to build a monopoly or to own a part of the monopoly. If I can prevent competition from entering the market give me one good reason to not do it.
>>74741738
this is actually a good question.
I've always found that supporting a military is more of a conundrum for libertarians than road maintenance. Some libertarians like using heavy-handed rhetoric about how "taxation is theft," but if they think it through they'll find that some of the legitimate roles of government require taxation to function. Once you've lost that moral high-ground about everything being voluntary, the murkier question of what is and isn't a legitimate role of government then gets left up to the mob, which, of course, loves hand-outs.
>>74742186
Your strawman implies you're going to spend 100,000s of dollars building a road against some poor guy to charge him $10.
It's literally nonsensical.
Roads existed before governments, and they never developed in the way you suggest, because people can benefit from trade amd mutually-beneficial agreements.
This is called capitalism, we built our entire civilization following this principle. I guess socialist frogs don't really understand that concept.
>>74742422
>Be monopolist
>Raise prices to make supernormal profits
>Suddenly it becomes profitable for small businesses to enter the market
>They enter the market and undercut you
>You have to lower prices below their price using your economies of scale
>Consumer benefits from being offered a price lower than the competitive market price by the monopolist
>monopolies
>bad
>>74742286
Ho, fuck this. You all are retard and if the governement fall you won't survive a week anyway.
Continue to preach for the most idiotic economic ideas I ever heard of and keep insulting people as your sole argument. I get out of it.
Fucking cunt. If the government ever fall people like you will get shot by the people the insult.
>lol, I called him a retard on the internet, I won the debate
>>74742312
Free entered the market when it was allowed to bid for a 3G license by the government...
>>74734472
Merkel, does she run the Dozer or the backhoe?
>>74742606
>Libertarians
>Ancaps
>>74741948
the fault lies with the company, not the theory.
>>74742606
Mate your country is literally getting crushed under the weight of its obese over-reaching government and you are lecturing us...
Mine is doing fine thanks to economic freedom.
>>74742583
lmao wishful thinking faggot. in real life goes like this:
>be monopolist
>rape everyone with sky high prices
>small business enter the market
>temporarily lower prices and drive them out of business
>raise prices again & rape everyone
remember if it wasn't for govt intervention we'd all be using microsoft shit products for everything. apple would've gotten stomped out 20 years ago.
>>74731885
this
>>74739942
>How do libertarians deal with roads?
>But what if this happens!
>What about this!
>Don't forget this extremely unlikely and nearly impossible scenario too!
>>74742606
hey cam, look at this mad fagget!
>>74742808
>lenin, stalin, mao just executed poorly
spoken like a true marxist
>>74742907
What if someone buys all the roads in the country to turn them into race-tracks for hamster races?
Libertalols BTFO!!
>>74742880
>What is venture capitalism
>What is investors insulating small firms from market forces to allow them to grow
>>74742907
>extremely unlikely and nearly impossible scenario
Except roads deteriorate without proper maintenance moosenigger. Even more-so in snowy or wet countries where ice and moisture ruins them.
>>74741738
By shooting the Terrorists the moment they try to hijack.
>>74741738
True. Once you accept the need of military protection, you accept that something like the leaf posted are probably too valuable to the public to be meddled with privately.
Do we give our power to corporations or politicians?
>>74731957
or you can shoot the owner in self defense.
problem solved.
>>74743605
If you're on their property, you cannot shoot in self defence because you're trespassing and retaliating to them protecting themselves.
>>74731738
The roads already look like that here even with big government
>>74731853
what a time to be alive
In a libertarian world, what's to stop roads from being built everywhere?
And I mean absolutely everywhere, like every road has another 10 roads next to it all going to the same pace because they're competing, there's no such thing as forests or anything, just roads.
Literally America is one giant slab of bitumen.
What will happen if some company buys roads in someone's area and doesn't maintain them specifically to bother the people living there (let's say because they work at another company)?
Could you file a complaint, or are the people actually economically forced to switch jobs? Seems like too much of a powerful tool to me.
>Irish Roads.
>>74731738
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/honduras-sold-libertarian-paradise-i-went-and-discovered-capitalist-nightmare
>>74732519
WE WUZ FEDERATION N SHEEIT.
>>74747075
It. Kinda is a wet dream, but you forget they're a dictatorship.
>>74747075
I read this with an open mind but he just spams that Honduras is a shithole and libertarians are dumb. Some specific examples of how libertarian policies led to the conditions of the country could've made it into more than a "look at me, Alternet, I'm lefty as fuck just like the rest of you" article
>>74745878
Non Agression principle, private property owners rule over everything
>>74748687
american backed dictatorship
>>74749035
that's why it's good to know a little history
that's why all those honduran kids were showing up on the us boarder
their parents don't think the kids will survive all that freedom
>>74734395
it created a market for those things
people that are smart enough to create shit don't spend their lives in the military
>>74749312
yeah, I'm brushing up on my Honduran history right now. Turns out it's been a shithole for a long time, and libertarian policies are nowhere near as much of a defining feature as the author of that article seems to believe.
What seems more likely is that the article was written by someone who came into a situation with the preconceived notion that libertarianism=bad, noticed he was in a shithole, and decided that it was, therefore, libertarian.
>>74750215
i made this back when navada was having a fit over immagrants
american policy turns honduras into a shit hole
you have to go back
>>74731853
Based burger
>>74742499
Most libertarians aren't anarchists
The True History of Libertarianism in America: A Phony Ideology to Promote a Corporate Agenda
http://www.alternet.org/visions/true-history-libertarianism-america-phony-ideology-promote-corporate-agenda
nailed them
http://s259.photobucket.com/user/angelinamina86/media/paddys%20day/steal-continent-complain-about-illegal-immigration-america.jpg.html
hahaha
>>74751615
no they are neoreactionary luddites who want to return to the fields as serfs
libertarian air heads that say they don't like social engineering but would cash in our democracy for their new ideology in a hart beat
>>74751615
>Most libertarians aren't anarchists
right, and some libertarians are anarchists in disguise. And, like I said, some libertarians do use heavy-handed rhetoric about taxation being theft, which may be where a lot of misunderstanding comes from. There's a pretty clear difference between libertarianism and anarchism, but I can see where people that don't subscribe to either schools of thought can get them mixed up, based on some of the dogmatic things that self-described libertarians say. Also, when you separate libertarianism from anarchism and make it just a label that anyone that has at any time not liked a government doing something can apply to themselves you get people like Bill Maher self-describing themselves as libertarians, and it becomes hazy as to whether or not it is fair to say that he is not. How can one person, who describes herself as a libertarian, say that another person isn't a REAL libertarian, just because she has different ideas about what is and isn't the proper role of government? Yes, libertarianism and anarchism are very different, but once they are separated what is that really separates libertarianism from conservatism or liberalism? They all want the government to forcefully tax people and then spend the money on things that individuals may or may not want their taxmoney spent on.
The whole "Most libertarians aren't anarchists" can be used to brush off parts of a conversation about libertarianism that libertarians find difficult to talk about, but in a thread like this where the topic is roads, we can assume it's a pretty hardline brand of libertarianism that's being discussed.
>>74752186
These alternet articles are terrible. They are not nailing anything.
Take a look at this link to have it broken down for you:
https://www.mises.ca/since-when-is-honduras-a-libertarian-paradise/
libertarians right-wing authoritarians that don't want to be associated with other right-wing authoritarians
people that think it's a good idea to start a race with their opponent on the finishing line
and they wanna take us all down with them
>Some roads are going to be bumpy, therefore it's OK to force people against their will with the threat of violence to pay for road maintenance.
This is how this argument sounds to libertarians and anarcho capitalists.
>>74754057
>mises
fucking air-heads
>>74754685
really? c'mon guy. you're making yourself look bad.
mises
that's how this con-artist works
they make things sound more complicated then they are so you can understand
libertarians are fine with this
>>74742880
> remember if it wasn't for govt intervention we'd all be using microsoft shit products for everything. apple would've gotten stomped out 20 years ago.
4chan has really sunk if anybody here doesn't think that would be a good thing for humanity.
>>74755238
if their ideas are so great, why does the us need to force it on latin america at gun point?
glorious libertarianism
Chile’s Plantation Economy
http://dissidentvoice.org/2014/12/chiles-plantation-economy/
>>74755466
the article you posted a link to said nothing of this nature
>>74742331
Soviet roads very pretty good, this started happening when the SU collapsed
>>74731738
They don't.
>Implying slums have roads
Welcome to libertarian paradise.
>>74755758
I never said it did
>>74739520
>What if the government doesn't want to fix it?
That's not how it works, you retarded faggot. Even with a crumbling infrastructure, America still bases which roads to save based on public use, not private interests. If libertarians ran society there'd be one set of shitty roads leading from slums to factories and the rest of the country would be entirely unpaved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saWCZVggQAs
le libertarian paradise face
>>74739556
This. In fact there's already several private roads around where I live.
>>74731738
Then fix the road your fucking self if you don't like it.
>>74755999
well if you're just going to bounce from subject to subject with no coherence whatsoever then there is nothing to discuss. Go ramble on a streetcorner
>>74731738
He can associate with other road owners to select and maintain a "main road" with a small toll so they can get funds to repair nearby "secondary roads"
since people won't pay taxes users would actually spend less money and they will have better results.
Everyone should just read The Leviathan before talking about this shit
>>74756365
one of their great ideas
![7hpUb[2].png](https://i.imgur.com/3KTR14C.png "7hpUb[2].png")
>>74754606
>walkers pay no road taxes
>bikers pay no road taxes
>people who ride horses pay no road taxes
>only people who willingly choose to license themselves to operate a motor vehicle on public roads pay road taxes
>BUT THEY STEAL UR
MONIES AT GUNPOINT!
Libertarians may be idiots, but they're still better than niggers.
>>74732462
why do people answer their own questions
>>74756563
not by much
>>74746268
>irish sunglasses
>muh roads
Driving is for idiots anyway, a waste of money and time. Live in the city close to everything you need and walk/bike everywhere, it's great for your health and you won't be contributing to pollution for no reason.
libertarians they get their social and economic policy ideas from hitler
>>74731912
>vested interest
So no one.
>>74756929
forgot pic
>>74731738
Using another road. BTFO frog
>>74756510
I have been assuming in this conversation that when you say "they" you are referring to mises, since your one-word post above seemed to indicate that you refuse to accept a rebuttal of the article you posted because it is hosted on the mises.org website. However, in this post "they" doesn't seem to refer to mises at all, as the image of a google search doesn't contain a single link back to that website.
I sincerely hope I'm being trolled, for your sake. But I don't think I am. You honestly believe that you're "nailin em" every time you post nonsense.
>>74731738
literally the biggest argument you can think of for why less violent control of the people is that you think if people aren't forced at threat of gunpoint to spend money maintaining roads the roads won't be maintained. As if that were true, and even if it were fuck the roads people's dignity and right to not be robbed or coerced is more important.
Apparently Bulgaria is libertarian country.
Never knew that.
>>74742124
>assuming that people are not rational.
>People are rational
>SERIOUSLY FUCKING IMPLYING
And this is the worst flaw in libertarianism of all. The assumption (which makes zero fucking sense) that most people have the brains god gave a toad to govern themselves, when clearly the vast and overwhelming majority of the people absolutely do not. And now you'll claim "But gubmint is people too!" as if all people are exactly the same.
>That's why the PC industry was able to define standards like USB, instead of all having their own connectors.
Actually, the PC industry is the PERFECT example of just how shit privatized standardization really is. You have to go over every single component of a new build to make sure EVERYTHING can work with everything else, and if you're not lucky, you'll still have to return at least one item so you can get the damned thing working. If we had universal standardization in computer components, everything would work 100% of the time, so long as it wasn't defective and there wouldn't even be an issue. Computer builds would take all of six fucking seconds to design.
>B-b-but the quality would be worse!
Prove it.
>Technically your ISP could charge you a trillion dollars
ISPs are regulated. They would never be allowed to do this. And you seem to forget that telecom companies are THE MOST HATED of ALL corporations and that this has led to, ironically, ACTUAL libertarian techniques like using massive wi-fi meshes to circumvent the corrupt capitalist ISPs.
>This is literally economics 101
The first rule of economics: if someone says they're an expert on economics, they're full of shit. Economists are some of the most fucking retarded people on Earth. Few have done more to ruin economies.
>>74742028
what a fucking cuck
do you ask your govt for permission to peg yourself every time you do it too?
>>74757297
I don't read the mises garbage
you can believe whatever you like
>>74757866
if you don't read the mises rebuttal you're going to keep embarrassing yourself when you post that laughably bad alternet article
libertarians and the right in general will not face the fact that they've been defrauded for 30 years
>>74758221
you read mises
enough said
the right votes for a party they has been screwing over the working class for 30 years
who's the idiot?
>>74731738
government doesnt fix our roads anyway
>>74758390
I don't "read mises", the rebuttal hosted on that website was the second hit on google when I searched "Honduras libertarian" because nobody except for that donkey at alternet has ever described Honduras as being libertarian.
>>74758759
ask your astrologer about it
>>74731957
If it's private property why are you driving on that mans land? Get off, scumbag.
>>74731738
In Australia we have privately owned roads.
They earn shitloads of money for their owners and the people are happy to pay the tolls because they have much less traffic.
m8 I'm not saying "the free market will fix it"
but
well
yeah
>>74742186
I like how my prediction was 100% accurate.
Your argument is literally 'I don't care about money I just want to bully people'. A single person can never own all the land, because the laws of supply and demand dictate that the price of a good goes up when someone starts hogging it. Let's look at what you're actually implying.
>acquiring all the land requires an infinite amount of money
>Ignoring the fact that this is impossible, by some divine miracle, someone is economically savvy enough to acquire this much wealth
>Clearly this person understands the value of money very well
>This person then uses all of his wealth to bully people, at the cost of his own fortune
>There are many ways to use his money more efficiently, but he suddenly doesn't care about that anymore
You're jumping to a situation THAT IS A PRIORI RULED OUT BY THE RULES SET IN PLACE and then use that situation to argue that the rules are faulty
>Hey, what if I were to walk up to the board and just stick these darts in triple 20, then I'd win easily right
>>Yeah but you can't do that because...
>Okay but if I WERE to do that I'd win easily right?
>>No see you can't do that. It wouldn't count
>Okay but suppose it would count, I'd beat everyone on stage right?
>>Yeah I guess but that's impossible because the rules clearly state that you can't.....
>AHA! SO IN MY HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO I WOULD WIN? SEE? THE GAME IS FLAWED!
If that's the hoops you socialist pigs have to jump to to find a flaw in libertarianism, I'd say libertarianism is pretty good. Fuck you.
>>74739702
Yes,,, and no.
Darpa created the internet yes, but it wasn't something new. In france there was a similar service that connected computed and pushed by a private company, the problem was that the bussiness designed so you could only use programs that were sanctioned by them and it was quite expensive... so the French pseudofree market killed the idea for not being good enough.
>inb4: sauce
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel
there you go, Im not making this up.
>>74731853
>>74759265
wow, another wicked mic drop
you keep posting one-line posts, some that have absolutely nothing to do with libertarianism, then running away when someone tries to engage you.
If you want to have an interest in this kind of stuff you should get a little better at it. It's not even that difficult.
>>74742331
Glorious USSR beat America in every single benchmark of the space race right up to the moon landings. And that was AFTER being crippled by WWII, which only shot America to its highest prosperity in history. Tried again. Failed again.
>>74742499
Libertarians think their private weapons arsenals (which somehow would include tanks and rocket launchers - because those are so easy to afford) will do it or that the rest of the world will obey the NAP. They're fucking idiots.
>>74742533
>Your strawman implies you're going to spend 100,000s of dollars building a road
>Implying a libertarian would spend this much on a road
>>74742583
>They enter the market and undercut you
>You have to lower prices below their price using your economies of scale
>Muh just invisible hand fallacy
No, esse, that's not how reality works. In reality anyone who becomes rich enough to buy the government does so immediately and relinquishes that hold only from their cold, dead hands.
>>74742710
>A difference
Find one.
>>74742880
This is exactly what Walmart did. Libertarians can only remain libertarians so long as they ignore the past and pretend only the present exists.
>>74742954
Not an argument.
>>74742907
Not an argument. Also a strawman.
>>74743363
See? I called it before I even read the post.
>>74731853
Aw yissss!!!!
I want my cocacola™ tank right now!
FUCK YOU ROADS!
>>74759665
>>74757042
airhead
Is Somalia a libertarian country?
>>74759693
>Libertarians think their private weapons arsenals (which somehow would include tanks and rocket launchers - because those are so easy to afford) will do it or that the rest of the world will obey the NAP. They're fucking idiots.
this is not what the majority of self-described libertarians believe.
>>74760128
>Is Somalia a libertarian country?
No, is a failed socialistic country trying to regain control throught their corrupt and even more failed institutions.
>>74741839
>muh oppression
> muh government sanctionned murder
#PolLivesMatter
>>74759445
you don't need to "own all the land" and have an "infinite amount of money" to have a monopoly in an area when it comes to roads. buy land strategically by grabbing land surrounding waterways, flat land, and land that meets other roads and you can make your competition's roads much less useful and/or cost effective.
>>74760128
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QyYp9DHMzY
Kek. I can guarantee that all American libertarians don't know what The Articles of Confederation were and why they were repealed
>>74731957
but do you support them...
being shot
eh?
>>74760128
fear not road-lovers, Somalia has a government again!
http://www.somaligov.net/
>lists every country in the world for some reason and uses the state of Georgia's flag for the country of Georgia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4OnDXkvGZ8
>>74748687
Just visit any slum really. Free market in full action. Funny how they all stay permanently shit though.
>>74749035
>Honduras is a shithole and libertarians are dumb
I defy you to disprove either claim.
>how libertarian policies led to the conditions
Libertarian policies lead to the robber baron era of the 1800s. Libertardians and their lack of historical education again.
>>74751615
Kek
>>74753891
>"""""""""Misunderstanding"""""""""
Doublekek You fucking lunatics couldn't be more anti-state if you tried.
>>74755238
But you're totally not.
>Everyone who disagrees with me is a jewish marxist!
Triplekek
>>74756220
That's far too organized.
>>74756235
>If you can't fix thousands of miles of roadways, it's your fault and you deserve to have no road access
Now this is LITERALLY a libertarian argument. Good job.
>>74759536
So...in other words, the free market broke it, government fixed it and now everyone has access to it, not just the rich.
>>74760171
Correction. This is not what the majority of libertarians CLAIM to believe. Through far too much experience with your pestilential kind, I've found there's about a 0% correlation between what you say you believe and what you believe.
>Libertarians are pro-government! Calling them anarchists is a """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""strawman"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
>Privatize everything! Get out you tax-thieving statist!!!
>>74739556
>trucks make road conditions irrelevant
What?
Huh?
>>74742606
Holy shit your posts are fucking retarded, end yourself faggot
>>74731853
>>74731853
>No more roads
>Muh trucks n guns an sheeeit
>Drive cross country to work every day
>Man, this shit's great!
>It rains
>Literally can't get to work
>Boss fires you immediately because you are without excuse - if you wanted to get here you'd build a road
>Try to drive to store
>Path is overgrown with shrubs and saplings
>Spend the next few months trying to fight nature to keep pathways open for your truck you can't even get to the gas station to fuel anymore
>Give up
>Live as peasant
>Die at 45 as nature intended
>>74761340
>So...in other words, the free market broke it, government fixed it and now everyone has access to it, not just the rich.
Or you can say that someone had an idea, he tried that idea and failed because he couldn't adapt to the needs and desires of the people, therefore an awfull service failed because people didn't want it, so they didn't buy it because they weren't forced to do it because the free market has a direct and fast feedback effect for these kind of things.
Now, instead of trying to remember the successes of goverment(which in this case can be applied as much as the private sector was the one who actually ended developing the technology for the common Joe) lets try to remember about the time according to the goverment nuclear bombs were going to be used for civilian purposes(Operation Plowshare) and was just a waste of taxes for years, lets remember the time around, lets remember when democracy went around expending resources looking for invisible enemies(McCarthyism) or that time around when goverment went pushing gender quotas or media manipulation.
And thats for the US, easy mode would be the soviet union or my own country.
But my point here is not that the market is perfect and the goverment is awfull. The goverment, like any other entity can be capable of being efficient or incompetent in the areas it works since its composed by humans, and some faults can be caused more by the people living that time(the iron curtain and our friend the atom era) than the goverment responding to those things, the real problem here is that a goverment is too stable and powerfull to be destroyed by its own failures, therefore it will keep commiting such failures until it actually can't or they can't actually be commite anymore(public opinion, the failed project coming to an end, lack of money...)
and the worst thing is that the goverment forces you to support those projects by taking away part of your earnings without giving you an option.
>>74731912
Roads are expensive. No one will maintain them
>>74764461
Roads are expensive but people profit by their presence. If I have a truck company and the constant change of tires is costing me too much money maybe I should invest in an arrangement to create a maintenance crew, subcontract local population or include a small "maintenance fee" to my own prices to keep roads up.
Libertarianism might have limits, but they're not physical since those limits can be pushed throught innovation.
>>74731738
Posted this shit at noon and people still debate it, holy mother of kek
>>74731738
Here's how I will deal with property when you elect me as dictator.
First of all we keep property tax or the jews will end up hording everything.
Anyone can make a registered (bonded) offer for any property. If the offer is higher than the property's current taxed value and the owner chooses to continue sitting on the property then the taxed value goes up to the offer price and only settles down to the tax appraisers appraisement over the next five years. If the property owner chooses to sell then the tax value is set at the purchase price for at least ten years.
This way maximum land use is encouraged and revenue for my mars ambitions is realized.
if i had to use the road i'd pay to fix it myself.
if i didn't, i wouldn't even know about it, let alone give a fuck.
why are statists so retarded
How can you mock socialism for being utopian nonsense while seriously arguing for utopian libertarian nonsense?
>>74731738
The state owns the road
The people pay taxes
The people can ask the state to use their taxes to improve the road.
You guys make libertarianism like it's the end of the fucking world
>muh roads hurr hurr
I honestly think there is more to worry about than fucking roads.
>>74731738
Hire people to fix it.
>>74731853
Tip top kek
Man that looks cozy
>>74742101
>published by the Heritage Foundation and The Wall Street Journal
Totally sounds unbiased. In most of those "more free" countries people get arrested for asking questions about WWII or drawing cartoons that other people don't like.
Suck a bag of cocks.
>>74731738
Taxes should be collected for infrastructure and defense ONLY
>>74765891
Wouldn't the WSJ try to claim America was the freest?
>There is literally no source good enough to satisfy rightwing faggots because they're just as entitled as leftwing faggots
>>74761340
>a slum where everyone is on welfare, in and out of jail for nonviolent crimes and having their economy trashed by the state is a free market
>>74731738
My city is too incompetent to maintain the roads anyway. It can't be much worse with a non-government entity maintaining them.
>>74731738
buy a truck/suv, faggot.
>>74744527
I was invited to the property and then he tried to murder me. My word against a dead man's word.
flying cars
and if you would stop stealing money from me via taxes then i could offer the captital to get my flying car business going
until then i would gladly right the bus on which the roads are paid with bymy bus fair instead of my taxes
that way i don't have to pay for something i am morally opposed to- like oil, cars, and roads from illegal wars in the middle east
>come at me authoritarians
>>74761340
>Libertarianism existed in the 1800s
>Rand is Libertarian
