So at this point it's obvious that christianity in the west is totaly destroyed. Pope is a cuck, churches are ruled by lesbian bishops and propagading refugees welcome kind of shit, and there is simply more muslims now. Russia, Ukraine and Belorussia is far more christian, even after 70 years of state enforced atheism churches is full of people.
Why the hell didn't you convert to orthodoxy yet?
>no cucks
>true blessing
>patriarch kirill is based and calls for crusades
>brother nataniel
>only way to get to heaven
>ultraconservative
the spirit of christianity only lives in orthodoxy
>>74581722
Its never too late to convert brother
>>74581722
Been considering it.
Protestant church has Been rendered a joke.
>>74581722
But I'm already Orthodox OP.
>>74581722
Preach on brother
>>74581722
>tfw priest tells major media outlet that bishops are politically correct tools who are doing the bidding of Islam
Having decent media is pretty comfy
How do people formally renounce a religion like Catholicism?
>>74581722
>propagading refugees welcome kind of shit
Because that's the Christian thing to do.
Christianity is crap. It's universalist garbage. A bunch of "spread the message to everyone" and "give all your shit to the poor" and "everyone's our brothers in Christ" bullshit.
And god isn't real anyway, take this shit to /x/
>>74581722
I am half catholic ,half agnostic,but i'm thinking in convertion to orthodox church
>>74581722
How do I become one?
>>74581722
honestly considering conversion, the pope is a jew and a cuck.
>>74582588
Agnosticism is not a religious orientation desu.
It simply implies there is no way To accurately prove the existance of god, however is does not nullify religious affiliation.
>>74581722
Orthodox christianity might give you a sense of hope, it might make you feel like you fit in with other people, but also it gives people a false sense of righteousness. We don't need more religiousfags. And besides if you look at it closely orthodox christianity is a lot like Islam.
I mean
muslims
>hurr durrr xD I'm gonna le behead you now xD
>le okay xD
orthodox christians
>you is le going to hell xD, you should repent, I will look at you like you're some social outcast for not converting
>person b meanwhile takes it up the ass and feels ashamed and has a false sense of guilt imposed on him by the religious tard
Yes, brother.
>>74582989
I was waiting for this guy To show up.
>religion in current year xD
>he does not follow "I fucking love science"
>stay delusional christcuck heh xD
The sense of rightiousness is justified for religion and the Bond between you and others of the same belief grants spirit and promotes non-degeneracy.
>>74581722
I wish I were Orthodox but I have to remain Catholic because I still think it's the true church. Stopped going to mass years ago because all the churches around me are modernized, they play drums and blast strange American Protestant gospel music now, no Latin mass anywhere. Sometimes I think of gassing this traitorous cucked pope before becoming an hero, I'll even burn in hell for my dear Mother Church
>>74581722
>>brother nataniel
Who and what?
>>74583294
>grants spirit
What do you mean by this? Like you can share damage between your HP and MP? That is an intrinsic I like.
>>74583294
>The sense of rightiousness is justified for religion
Okay, even if it is in some way justified it's still even more cringy than this pic when you have people fooled by religion act like autistic tards telling you to convert. I mean you probably know but the american street preachers here are a good example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkF8zVGyJKA
One day christians will die and suffer only because they chose to remain christians.
>>74582657
Go to church and speak with the Priest and he will bless you as a catahuman. While you are a catahuman you will have to take classes and read some books. Start now and read the books by Timothy Ware. That is his American name, I do not remember the name has has as a Greek Orthodox Priest. If I could find the two books I would mail them to you. They can be called life changing.
After you have a good understanding of the faith you will be baptised into the church and then you are Orthodox.
The one problem you will have at first is that most of the Orthodox churches are going to be in a different language. Russia Orthodox Churches speak in Russian as Greek Orthodox use Greek. In the States some are mostly in English and some are the native language and some are mixed or in both.
It is very rewarding and well worth your effort
Christianity is found in people's hearts, not churches.
>>74583763
Some Jew who became an Orthodox priest. I'm not sure if he's an actual priest.
>>74582483
In Germany or Luxembourg (and maybe other countries) you have to go to your local municipality and fill in a declaration. This is because you actually pay a Catholic church tax for as long as you are Catholic.
>>74582657
Also I would recommend watching a movie on youtube called "the Island" It is very, very deep and you might have to watch it twice. Russian movie with sub titles that moves kind of slow and as with all russian movies it can get a little drawn out. The Russian movie star that plays the lead role, he became an actual Monk and gave up on being a star, or so I was told.
atheism > trilogy of the desert
First, there is no god lol. Second, in russia most people just call an orthodox christians themselves. And russian society is not a right society from the christian point of view
>>74583935
Of course the vehement atempt of Trying To convert others comes off as plain autism, I am not for it nor do I aim To convert anyone.
Christianity needs To come To you, it did To me when I was at the lowest point in my life.
Not as some life raft but rather a chance at salvation, not at the expense of my sanity or judgement but rather saving me from an hero.
The non verbal support a strong community of people who all share a vision of what it is To live a decent life is truly uplifting and blessed.
Again, not Trying To convert you, all I am asking is you give it a try.
>>74581722
>>brother nataniel
He's Jewish psyop to discredit the ideas he "preaches" though.
>>74584628
This. I'm Russian-American and this whole Russians are very Christian is a meme. People just do it for all the pretty stuff.
>>74583962
>books by Timothy Ware
Started already. Looks good, thanks for the suggestion.
>>74581722
yeah, but does your patriarch wear a funny white hat?
>>74583456
>I have to remain Catholic because I still think it's the true church
Its not though. Rome is just one patriarchate that split from the other four and set way for the protestant reformation with their heterodox practices.
The current state of the church appears more like the fulfillment of the text's prophecies that describe the last days before rapture.
Whether you believe them or not, I'm just saying your efforts at conversion are misguided- why would people convert when they see Revelation prophecies being fulfilled just as they believed they would be.
>>74584807
Watch that movie also, we could never repent like that.
>>74583894
Is nobody going to get the Dungeon Crawl reference? Okay, that's fine.
>>74584485
>the Island
That's not a Russian movie, it had that guy and ScarJo in it.
>>74584641
What is with This random Capitalization?
>not at the expense of my sanity or judgement but rather saving me from an hero
Ah, so kind of like my worship of the Goddess? Without her in my life I don't know what I would have done, how I would have Survived.
>>74585067
Excellent reason to convert, could not have said it better
>>74585102
I am on my Phone, it is acting stupid thinking every other Word is the start of a new sentence.
I know it makes reading harder.
>>74581722
Because I'm Byzantine Catholic, moron. Same liturgy as Eastern Rite Orthodoxy, but in communion with the Vatican. Oh yeah, priests can marry too. Best of both worlds.
>>74581722
Catholics are more Christian than Orthodox, because Christianity preaches cuckholdry, even though there can be some based christians, so can there be peaceful Muslims, doesn't mean that Islam preaches peace.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WLTcfWOKB4
>>74582989
Protestants are more like Jews and Muslims than any other Christians because many of them only interpret the bible literally instead of finding the allegorical and spiritual meaning. If Orthodoxy is anything like Islam it is in the sense that they are both traditional and opposed to modernity.
pic related
>>74581722
You do realise that "Hurr durr, Pope is a cuck, letz drob the cathols faith XDDD" is the logical equal to "In one of the apples were a worm - this mean that apple tree is corupt to the core, we must burn it"?
Also:
>Russia, Ukraine and Belarus
>Far more Christian
Kek
>went to an Orthodox church here out of curiosity
>filled almost entirely with old people, very little youth
pretty sad, i hear this is common among orthodox churches in general
>>74584807
Do not listen to that faggot
The Island
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms4TXwIDutM
orthodox christianity haz been infiltrated by masons. kirill is a mason.
>>74585511
Krill is not a Mason, you are a Nazi stooge.
>>74585675
That's true. He is from KGB.
>>74585308
>implying being in communion with the Vatican is a good thing
>In addition to the dogma of the Pope, the Roman Catholic heresy currently holds the heresies of the Dual Causation of the Holy Spirit, God as a Tripartite Energy (with Created Grace being a further heretical consequence), Purgatory and the Papal Treasury of Merits, Development of Dogma, the Divine Inspiration and Salvific Nature of all Religions (a heresy stemming from the 20th-century Freemasonic takeover of the Vatican), the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary, the Sacramentalogy of Opere Operato, etc., as well as the canonical violations of claiming jurisdiction for the Pope in all dioceses, adding to the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, Rejection of Married Priests, Mutation or Mutilation of the Mysteries of Holy Baptism, Chrismation, Confession, and Lord’s Divine Liturgy and Eucharist (unleavened wafers, removal of the invocation of the Holy Spirit, etc.), and the papal decrees ordering or sanctioning the robbery, torture, murder, enslavement, and other forms of inhuman maltreatment of insubordinate or non-Roman Catholic persons.
Catholicism and Orthodox are the best organized churches, the real enemy is the Protestants and Crazy Evanjoolicals.
>>74582989
lel
hurr durrr xD I'm gonna le behead you now xD
>>74585440
This is stupid. How are you supposed to know what it means if what it says isn't what it means? Why not have scripture that actually says what it means?
>>74585446
>In one of the apples were a worm - this mean that apple tree is corupt to the core, we must burn it"?
No, is like "if there is mold in part of bread the whole bread must be throw out".
>>74581722
Orthodoxy is the way to go
>>74585795
There wouldn't be protestants in the first place if it weren't for Catholics. In fact Catholicism tends to be one of the biggest obstacles in the way of protestants converting to Orthodoxy, so many people are overly skeptical of things like apostolic succession and confession precisely because its "too Catholic".
>>74585446
Abortion is a very Christian practice and all Christians should approve of a woman's choice.
t. nancy pelosi
>>74582989
Oh yeah man, killing people and telling people bad things will happen to them are totally one and the same.
Exodus 20:4
>"You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
Orthodox makes pictures of "heavens"
>>74586120
You have to understand that the Catholic Church has been around for almost 2000 years now. The interpretation of the bible by the holy mother church is the only correct interpretation. A person can't just pick up a bible and expect to understand the allegorical meanings of many of the stories, the tradition of the catholic church interprets it for you.
Not Orthodox because I don't like the hierarchical, dogmatic aspect of Christianity, but it's definitely the best of the Churches by far, and the only one with even the slightest connection back to the mystical practices of the early Christians. It's the only one that actually allows for any kind of connection to God in a mystical sense, as opposed to just being a social group.
I've read some of the works of Saint Paisios and it far exceeds anything by any writers from other denominations, as far as spiritual instruction goes.
>>74586454
It's iconoclasts that started the schism.
>>74586120
Because much of scripture is allegorical. For example there is all of the parables that Jesus taught. If you only take them literally, then the parable of the prodigal son is just a story about a man who ran away from home. But obviously there is much more to it than that.
>>74585511
Nah, he is KGB instead. Masons were banned in the Soviet Union.
>>74586454
>Old Testament
>>74586120
Then we can throw away ALL churches. Name me one, just ONE where there wasn't any bad pepole.
>>74585791
>Lack of understanding of dogmas
>Council of Florence
>Church Fathers
>Caesaropapism of Orthodoxy
>Focusing of symbols, discipline and form rather than theology
You must try harder.
>>74581722
>schismatics
Truly a shame бpaтья
FSSPX
>>74584015
I heard the Orthodox people excommunicated him
>>74586454
By your logic they should have never placed the two sculpted Cherubim above the Ark of the Covenant.
>>74586905
Matthew 5
>n the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. 17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.…
>Jesus says to obey the old testament
>he doesnt.
for me modern orthodoxy is same like buddism or hinduism, bunch of idolworshipers same like catholics
>>74587446
>Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them.
Exactly. He fulfilled them.
So we're no longer obliged to follow those laws. In fact what Jesus taught is obviously in contradiction with those teachings.
Do you avoid eating pork? You know it's banned in OT, right?
>>74587090
The filioque, the western understanding of original sin, immaculate conception, transubstantiation are all examples of erroneous Roman theology. Not to mention that a lot of protestant theology like Calvinism has its roots in St. Augustine.
>>74587446
>For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished
Exactly, you can still read the OT. Says nothing about having to follow them.
>>74587446
>using sola scriptura to cite Mt 5:17
crypto-Jew detected
He says, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but not an iota, not a dot will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.” All is accomplished when He is crucified. That’s when all is accomplished. In the theological Gospel of St. John, the last word of Jesus from the Cross is one Greek word, Tetelestai, which means, “It is accomplished.” In Latin, it’s two words: “Consummatum est.” It’s usually translated in English as, “It is finished,” so most people think He’s going to die, especially because it says, “He cried out, ‘It is finished,’ and He gave over His spirit.” But it doesn’t mean that He’s going to die. That word means it’s fulfilled. It’s accomplished. It’s perfected. There’s nothing more that God can say, there’s nothing more that God can show, there’s nothing more that God can do. In the death of Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, the Son of God, the Lamb of God, God has done his final act. That’s it. It’s fulfilled. Nothing can surpass it. So, not one word of the Law passes away until it’s accomplished, but when He’s crucified, it’s all accomplished. Therefore, all the word is fulfilled in Him.
So when we ask the question: What does it mean that Jesus died for us? Simply put, it means that he revealed the truth, he did the truth, the truth is love. He fulfills it completely, therefore the law is now kept. Therefore God has no case against us, because he can’t have a case against us if the law is not broken, and he didn’t break it! And therefore he voluntarily enters into the realm of sin, curse, and death in order to obliterate it, to wipe it out once and for all forever.
>>74584644
I saw that Brother Nathanael over at a Saint Anthony's monastery over in Arizona. It is a Greek Orthodox monastery. The gal in the bookstore was saying good things about him. I asked her if she ever saw any of his videos on youtube and she said she had not.
He spent most of his time in the in the parking lot talking on his cell phone. He is not a Priest and is not a monk. She told me he was a novice Not really sure what that means but that is what she said. The dude seemed really nervous while he was on the phone.
It was my understanding that he could spend 3 days there and then he would have to be moving on. He was also dressed like he is in his videos.
>>74587638
>Exactly. He fulfilled them.
>So we're no longer obliged to follow those laws.
>person who's never been to the church detected
I can't talk with absolute 100% confidence it's the same with you guys, but in Catholicism Old Testament applies as much as New Testament does. Old Testament is not the same as Tanakh/Mikra.
Can you guys into Sunday school?
>>74586263
Fucking based.
>>74587712
>The filioque, the western understanding of original sin, immaculate conception, transubstantiation are all examples of erroneous Roman theology.
...that Orthodox church accepted in the ecumenical Council of Florence
>No to mention that a lot of protestant theology like Calvinism has its roots in St. Augustine.
Not to mention that they also get Sola Scriptura from Bible that we both know is a complete bullshit. So do use those heretics as a argument.
>>74581722
>Russia, Ukraine and Belorussia is far more christian
Every believer was massacred there 100 years ago. If someone pretends to be muh religious than it's obviously counter extremism agent hiding kgb/fsb strap under rob. Especially
>patriarch kirill
Tatars and Chechens somehow resurrect their religion by defeating rusky but all their mufti still fsb agents
>>74588341
So were the Apostles full of shit when they decided circumcision isn't necessary in the council that took place in Acts 15?
Mt 22: 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
"For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and to deal with sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:3-4
>>74588341
>Old Testament is not the same as Tanakh/Mikra.
Are you referring to the apocrypha?
>>74587937
he says untill heaven and earth is finished and after that so you sill have to keep the old testament. but you eat pork, dont circumsize yourself, which are basics of ot.
not a jew tho, just some men with logic. also it sabbat now, why dont you keep it?
>>74588712
>ecumenical Council of Florence
A short lived union that was never valid because it was rejected by the entire Church body. This is why St. Mark of Ephesus is often called the champion of Orthodoxy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGN3pz0oKuo
![resurrection icon_thumb[2].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/YcEBzzf.jpg "resurrection icon_thumb[2].jpg")
>>74589283
He says "until all is fulfilled", and all was fulfilled in the death and resurrection, which is exactly what Christ's final words were.
>also it sabbat now, why dont you keep it?
Because I'm not a Jew, and Christ was resurrected on a Sunday.
>>74589046
circumcision has more to do with Great Church Councils and practical needs of Early Church than with the Gospels.
>>74589185
Tanakh/Mikra are to put it bluntly the Hebrew Bible. People often say: hurrr Old Testament = Pentateuch/Torah = Jewish holy books, ergo don't apply to Christianity. The truth is Pentateuch is but a fragment of both Old Testament and of Tanakh.
46 books of Old Testament are indivisible from even the present day Christianity. Christianity without Old Testament is like a brain without a body.
>>74582033
Converted about 3 months ago cuz /pol/.
Was a protestant who was like:mmuh idols, muh saint is heresy.
Pretty glad I'm orthodox now, did my first pascha it was hard cuz did arab and english back to back
>>74581722
>>brother nataniel
He is a con artist, you know that right?
He is not even a monk.
>>74581722
fuck off heretic
the west is experiencing a plague of liberalism after Vatican II (1960s) but we will come back stronger than ever
>>74589489
>the entire Church body
Exept it is not true.
>>74589905
That doesn't answer the question. If your heresy holds true, the Apostles should have never changed anything. They should have made new members young and old circumcise themselves, they would have held all the same dietary restrictions, they would have written in the epistles to keep the sabbath and other things, they would have reaffirmed the 600+ OT laws.. But they didn't do any of those things, so either you are wrong or they were wrong, which is it?
I have lost the count of how many times Catholicism has been "totally destroyed"
>>74584946
Nice try, heretic
The Latin mass is making a comeback
God didn't create his church to be an eastern nationalist church without an authority figure to clearly define doctrine
The assumption of Mary into heaven wasn't dogmatically defined until 1950
Orthodox will never be able to update anything since the split
So yes it is nice they are forever stuck in the past (easier to resist modernist heresy) that doesn't make you right
>>74581722
Tell me some more and how Iwill benefit from it in the long term. You guys were originated in the byzantine empire right?
Your stance on Jews? Muslims? Western Society?
>>74581722
What's Belarus like?
>>74581722
I actually agree with this.
It may be the last real salvation left.
>>74590128
St. Mark returned to Constantinople with Emperor John on February 1,1440. What a sorrowful return it was! No sooner had the Emperor managed to set foot on land than he was informed of the death of his beloved wife; after this the Emperor out of sorrow did not leave his quarters for three months. None of the hierarchs would agree to accept the post of Patriarch of Constantinople, knowing that this post would oblige one to proceed with the Union. The people who met them, as the Greek historian Doukas testifies, asked the Orthodox delegates who had signed the Union: "How did the Council go? Were we victorious?" To which the hierarchs replied: "No! We sold our faith, we bartered piety for impiety (i.e., Orthodox doctrine for heresy) and have become azymites." The people asked then: "Why did you sign?" "From fear of the Latins," ''Did the Latins then beat you or put you in prison?" ''No. But our right hand signed: let it be cut off! Our tongue confessed: let it be torn out!" [9]
A painful silence set in. Despite the Great Lent, the season most filled with prayer, churches were empty and there were no services: no one wished to serve with those who had signed the Union. In Constantinople revolution was ripening. St. Mark alone was pure in heart and had no reproach on his conscience. But he too suffered immeasurably. Around him united all the zealots for Orthodoxy, especially the monks of the Holy Mountain (Athos) and the ordinary village priests. The whole episcopate, the whole court—all was in the hands of the Uniates, in absolute submission to the representatives of the Vatican, who came often to inspect how the Union was being carried out among the people. The Church was in extreme danger; as St. Mark wrote: "the night of Union encompassed the Church."
http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/stmark.aspx
The least we can do is get Orthodox and Catholics to unite and make our women stop acting like liberal sluts
>>74582166
>implying protestant aren't fucked up since the beginning
>>74590458
>Your stance on Jews?
http://www.preteristarchive.com/ChurchHistory/0386_chrysostom_adversus-judeaus.html
>Muslims?
Heretics on the wrong end of a holy war
>Western Society?
The Church rejects liberalism, materialism, and modernity. Pic related is a good read.
>>74590880
>http://www.preteristarchive.com/ChurchHistory/0386_chrysostom_adversus-judeaus.html
In short please.
If its very right wing, I will have a look at it. I attended an orthodox funeral half a year ago and it was much more comforting than the funeral of my mother, so thats a plus.
But I want a church that has the resources and the spirit to fight for my rights. What about womens rights?
>>74590730
Anglicans were closer to Orthodoxy than Catholics were at one point, but that ship has sailed. We still like CS Lewis though.
>>74590572
>"From fear of the Latins,"
So he was a pussy. If he really disagreed with council he should say "Fuck you heretics!". Insted he signed it and when he come back to comfy place he start to butthurting. This is just pathetic.
>>74581722
I'm already orthodox
>>74590189
you're looking at it from the wrong angle. New Testament is to Old Testament what Amendments are to your Constitution. Jesus and the Apostles merely reemphasized certain parts of the Old Testament into what later became the New Testament.
Jesus didn't have to reiterate commandments like Do not kill, Do not lie with your brother's wife, etc. because those laws remained valid. Instead they incorporated them and/or slightly changed the way they were practiced. You mentioned dietary restrictions - yes they remained, only instead of having to eat kosher food, you had to fast on Fridays, had to observe Lent; Sabbath was moved to Sundays, etc. I can't talk about circumcision with same certainty because quite frankly I'm not all that familiar with how the practice changed over time, but it's ridiculous to claim that entire Christian doctrine is contained in the New Testament alone
>>74591468
>schismatics
It is not a popularity context, it is a search for Truth. The ultimate truth is in the Catholic Church ;)
Ignatius of Antioch
“Be not deceived, my brethren: If anyone follows a maker of schism [i.e., is a schismatic], he does no inherit the kingdom of God; if anyone walks in strange doctrine [i.e., is a heretic], he has no part in the passion [of Christ]. Take care, then, to use one Eucharist, so that whatever you do, you do according to God: For there is one flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, and one cup in the union of his blood; one altar, as there is one bishop, with the presbytery and my fellow servants, the deacons” (Letter to the Philadelphians 3:3–4:1 [A.D. 110]).
>>74591780
didn't mean to quote you anon, sorry
Daily reminder that Orthodox are heretics
The proof is that the devil doesn't bother attacking their church
The entire history of Catholicism is a history of warfare
Recently (1960s) the church got attacked by Jews, Marxists and Free Masons which has resulted in the modernist BS we see today
Fortunately everything from Vatican II can be thrown away by the next pope.
God permits evil as an awakening. Catholics grew soft and we are being punished by soft liberal leaders who are borderline heretics
People are waking up to the faults of liberalism, Vatican II and Francis' BS
Nobody bothers with Orthodox because it is simply a xenophobic state church of irrelevant corrupt slavic countries
Any westerner who has converted to orthodoxy recently converted based on memes and has no real grasp of the struggle or the war being waged against the catholic faith
recognize and resist
find a church that says that traditional latin mass
deus vult
>>74581722
>convert to the KGB-operated, state-controlled church in order to become an equivalent of an islamic fundamentalist
No, you go get fucked.
>>74591097
Read the first couple paragraphs at least. St. John Chrysostom(who's Divine Liturgy we celebrate every Sunday) called them "truly pitiable" and "miserable", and often warned against Christians partaking in Jewish feasts and celebrations. He railed against the barbaric rituals that took place in their synagogues. Generally we almost never read from the OT in the Church other than the Psalms precisely to safeguard the faith from Judaism. We also tend to oppose Israel because many Orthodox Christians are from neighboring countries. The Church does reject anti-Semitism in the sense that, we believe rounding them up and killing them all just for being Jewish would be the wrong thing to do. But we are certainly opposed to Judaism and on an individual basis we tend to be pretty anti-Semitic.
>If its very right wing, I will have a look at it.
You could say that. Also check out "For My Legionaires" by Corneliu Zelea Codreanu, it's one of the most anti-Semitic books you'll ever read.
>What about womens rights?
No ordination for women and abortion is strictly forbidden. Most parishes have their women cover their heads but some of them don't. At my parish it's not a big deal but the more old school women will put the covering on before they receive the Eucharist.
Hell no, they can go fuck themselves, they left, their fault.
I don't want any fucking western beta cucks ruining my religion.
Seriously fuck off.
Lately its just been "haha were awoken now we right wing we like Russia n sheeit xD"
Go fuck yourselves
>>74592005
Being this ignorant of history.
Because Greek orthodoxy doesn't use scripture as the highest authority, contrary to God's will
>>74581722
>Pope is a cuck
that applies only to papists
>>74592763
>persisting in your heresy
DIE
I
E
ETERNALLY
T
E
R
N
A
L
L
Y
>>74591238
In any case virtually none of the laity accepted the union, as well as much of the hierarchy and it didn't hold for very long. And we certainly don't look back on it as a union that should have held. It was obviously more of a political union than a theological one. I wouldn't say these western practices in question are valid just because some Orthodox bishops agreed to them under pressure once upon a time. We do believe in the infallibility of the Church as a whole, after all.
>>74592909
Francis might be a cuck
but at least he didn't eat his own shit like Luther did
>>74592932
You have more of this?
>>74593265
sorry bro i dont
i think it was a take on modern politics during the bush era. each country had a leader and a special move.
>>74591468
>New Testament is to Old Testament what Amendments are to your Constitution
In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13
>Jesus didn't have to reiterate commandments like Do not kill, Do not lie with your brother's wife, etc
But he did when he gave the two great commandments which I already cited. Basically the message that there were no need for over 600 commandments because love they God and love thy neighbor covers everything.
and you show that you are a letter of Christ, prepared by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 2Co 3:3
who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 2Co 3:6-9
>You mentioned dietary restrictions - yes they remained
Acts 10:13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
14 But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.”
>>74592932
From my point of view, the Catholics are heretics!
>>74592964
>agreed to them under pressure
There were no pressure. They could not sign it, they could not come to Florence in the first place. And if there had been any pressure they should resisted and not being a faggots.
>>74581722
The Catholic has been reduced to an absolute disgrace under Pope France....absolutely abominable. I am strongly considering a conversion to the Christian Orthodoxy.
>>74593612
Pressure being Turks and Venetians, and latter destroyed Constantinople in 1204.
Here, Catholics (Venetians) were hated as much as Muslims.
>>74593001
>Papists making up stuff as usual
>>74581722
>2016
>still believing that a man is God Almighty
Hysterical, you fucking heretics
>>74593701
if your faith is about the personal opinions and stupid statements of the Pope of the moment then I doubt you have any faith at all.
>>74593795
it is true though
If any of you "Catholics" understood your own history you would see it plagued by shitty leadership and generally bad popes
But guess what?
That doesn't give you the right to jump ship
It is supposed to be a test of the faithful not a chance to jump on the next bandwagon
All you have to do is ignore the Pope's bullshit and keep on keeping on. If the Pope becomes a formal heretic you won't have to worry about it anymore because he will cease to be pope
If you think church history has just been a walk through the park you would be totally wrong
Great saints have emerged in the darkest hours to right the ship
>>74593853
I agree with you. I'm just pissed off at the direction that the Church is taking. The Church has been infiltrated by a bunch of covert communist and pedophiles.
>>74592781
http://shamelesspopery.com/reason-1-to-reject-the-reformation-the-canon-of-scripture/
http://shamelesspopery.com/six-reasons-to-reject-the-perspicuity-of-scripture/
shamelesspopery.com/luther-and-sola-scriptura/
http://shamelesspopery.com/why-scripture-alone-is-wrong-in-all-its-formulations/
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/scripture-and-tradition
http://www.protestanterrors.com/#6
http://www.protestanterrors.com/#8
http://www.protestanterrors.com/#9
Heretics get out.
How does one convert to Eastern Orthodoxy? What steps must I take? Any tips???
>>74593786
What country are u and what denomination are your peoples?
>>74593612
I disagree but your original point was that I shouldn't object to western doctrines because of the Council of Florence and I have explained why that was never a valid union, so let that suffice. Had things gone differently, lets say the laity desperately wanted the union but the hierarchy broke it off for other reasons, maybe you would have a point, but that clearly wasn't the case. The Church body would never trade the Orthodoxy faith purely for the sake of reunification and that's why the union didn't last.
>>74594168
>literally have a BANK
C'mon man.
>>74594310
Montenegro, below Serbia.
Orthodox, 20% are Muslim, and few Catholics.
>>74594254
no shit sherlock
start going to a church that says the traditional latin mass
the bullshit you are talking about is a product of the 1960s and vatican II…the entire church leadership is just filled with these old baby boomer faggot priests who threw out 2,000 years of tradition for feel good bullshit
soon they will all die out and we can get back to business
the traditional groups are growing at rapid rates for their small size and they are where a lot of the new priests are coming from
>>74594485
What about child molestation?
>>74594259
http://www.gotquestions.org/sola-scriptura.html
Catholic universalism is the real heresy here. I beseech you to investigate the issue and find which is more in line with God's will as he reveals it in scripture
>>74594408
im not defending the church bank or usury
it would be good if they used that money to support failing catholic schools and pay teachers more
education is key to the struggle
the problem is that today catholic schools are one step away from being secular and are essentially useless
>>74594263
Go to Divine Liturgy on Sundays, talk to a priest, go through catechumen classes. After like 6 months the priest will start talking to you about chrismation and baptism(if you've never been baptized or had a non-Trinitarian baptism).
>>74594263
find a church, talk to the priests there i guess
>>74594254
Remember Matthew 16:18. I have blind faith in Christ, and I have blind faith that the gates of Hades won't prevail. It is in hard times that we our faith is put to the test, not in good ones
>>74592484
>tend to oppose
Thats not enough for me.
Also antisemitism doesnt mean you wanna exterminate all jews. You just condemn their disgusting ideology and perfidious actions.
>>74594168
>If the Pope becomes a formal heretic
All popes have been formal heretics since 1054.
>>74593786
>Turks
You had a pretty comfy position. Kakure Kirishitan laugh at you for being Turkish whore and not willing to resist oppression and die for your faith.
>Venetians
Pope excommunicated them.
>>74594560
again Vatican II problems
you get all these liberal priests (and because fewer people accept the priesthood they turn a blind eye to fags)
everything wrong with the church today really comes back to vatican II
they should have burnt the pedos at the stake on the vatican square to send a message. they deserve death
priest in my old parish was implicated in a pedo scandal and he hung himself. but bad apples (or a lame pope) aren't going to stop me from being a catholic
>>74582989
yeah all those Christians blowing themselves up and conducting ficki ficki all over the world, man, you've really opened my eyes. it's really the same
>>74594817
>All popes have been formal heretics since 1054.
>>74581722
>Why the hell didn't you convert to orthodoxy yet?
Because it's basically Islam.
You even make your women wear head scarfs.
>>74588950
Well we have our state Orthodox church which split off from the Russian church after the revolution and was never subverted by KGB like the other church that new Russian immigrants are joining here now. They must be the only Christian church in the continent that wasn't taken over by gommunism because our Reds focused on perverting the Lutheran church and everyone forgot the Orthodoxes.
It's hilarious watching them on TV debates when our shitlibs try to invite them into the coalition of oppressed minorities but then they explain that no, they won't support gay marriage and that shit.
>>74594263
you just get to the point and kill yourself because you'll be going to hell anyway for being a heretic and putting yourself outside God's true church
such is the fate of all shitposting australians
Christianity is shit and so is most every organized religion. Be that also as it may, the most disgusting thing is that you're all wearing Christianity as a flashy medal because it's currently ~counter culture~, and not out of true piety
>Why the hell didn't you convert to orthodoxy yet?
My entire mothers side of the family is Eastern Orthodox but in my imminent family we don't go to church.
>>74594748
It would be more accurate to say the Church is anti-Jewish, or anti-Judaism. Palestinians are Semites, after all, and Palestinian Christians are Orthodox.
>>74594828
People started resisting them. But at that time, there wasn't much difference.
Rule of Catholics meant destructuion of your culture, and Turks at least respected Orthodox church for quite some time.
See milet system.
>>74582585
Is this you bro?
>>74594748
Sicut Judeas Non is the traditional Catholic approach to jews
>you can't kill jews
>you can't physically harm jews
>you can't force them to convert
BUT
>jews should not hold jobs in government, economics, education, military
>no public worship for jews
>any jew caught blaspheming christ gets in serious trouble
>you can force them to hear sermons
>you can take their wealth gained through usury
This is where Hitler fucked up
If he took the medieval approach to Jews maybe things would have turned out better
>>74581722
Catholic, and curious.
One of the most beautiful thing I learned: "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have Mercy upon me, the sinner."
I am falling in love, and this makes me sad, because I use to feel the same about the Catholic Church as well.
How likely is it for the whole Catholic Church to become Orthodox again?
#MakeCatholicChurchOrthodoxAgain.
>>74581722
Slavs are the only hope for Europe.
>>74594748
UK needs to leave the EU ASAP so we can have Mega bear vs Giant insects vs Dragons vs Aliens vs Soviets in a permanent winter chapter
Can someone list what the key differences are between Orthodoxy and Catholicism, and why I shouldn't just be a protestant?
>>74581722
Architecture mostly. And overall culture. Like, what the fuck? It's almost like orthodox christians don't have any taste at all. All Cathedrals are shit. Just look at this piece of garbage and compare it to any gothic european one.
>>74595233
Why don't you just go to a traditional Latin mass
They changed the mass in the 1960s (Vatican II) and everything turned into a protestant shit soup
Just google "Tridentine Mass" or traditional Catholic mass or Latin mass…and find your state
Look for FSSP groups they are good
You don't need to reinvent the wheel…just go back to the mass we've been using for centuries
>>74581722
I agree that Orthodoxy is what Christianity should have always been, but I'm a Nihilist so I don't really care
However I wish you fair tidings in your hopes to restore your people to something worth existing
>>74586033
Underrated
>>74594849
>everything wrong with the church today really comes back to vatican II
"Once the times of De Maistre, Bonald, Donoso Cortés, and the Syllabus were past, Catholicism has been characterized by political maneuvering. … Naturally the Church’s sympathies had to gravitate toward a democratic-liberal political system. Moreover, Catholicism has for some time espoused the theory of so-called ‘natural right,’ which is difficult to reconcile with the positive and differentiated right, which is the foundation of a strong and hierarchical state. … Militant Catholics like Maritain have taken up Bergson’s formulation that ‘democracy is essentially evangelical’ and tried to show that the democratic impulse in history appears as a secular manifestation of the authentic Christian and Catholic spirit. …Today the categorical condemnations of modernism and progressivism are long gone. … When we see today’s Catholics reject the ‘medieval residues’ of their tradition; when Vatican II and its implementations import destructive forms of ‘bringing things up to date’; when popes point to the United Nations (that ridiculous organization, half-breed and bastard) as prefiguring a future Christian world order—there can be no doubt in which direction the Church is being dragged. That it is capable of providing any sort of support for a revolutionary-conservative and traditionalist movement must be resolutely denied."
Julius Evola, 1953
>>74594349
My original point was that if you look closely you will find that 90% of disputes can be resolved by compromise and that they are mostly a one big misunderstanding. Filioque is a good exemple.
>>74595468
I like both. And I have been both in the Cathedral of Cologne and St. Isaaks in St. Petersburg. St. Isaaks has a history of killed basically slave labourers during its construction however. - Like most great buildings in Russia, I guess?
>>74595468
But that's because Russians cannot in2architecture
Doesn't have much to do with the religion itself
>>74595536
What's FSSP?
I might try this out Sunday. I really want a conservative wife and friends. I was a strong atheist and I have a geology degree. I still can't believe in religion factually, but I like the morals and lifestyle framework.
I read a fiction book (a Drizzt book) where the main character chooses his religion because it matches the values by which he was already living. He realizes he was already a follower.
>>74589921
>mfw im related to clovis and his righteous children
>>74595020
I don't, I wouldn't even call myself a real Christian for many reasons.
But Christianity is the best guiding force humanity has. I can disagree with details, but message of Jesus is a path to happiness in this world. And maybe beyond.
Atheism is not liberation sadly, atheism is chaining the human spirit in materialism and agony.
>>74595468
Duncan Stroik is doing some really terrific things with traditional Christian architecture
Everyone should check out his work
http://www.stroik.com
>>74595188
>Rule of Catholics meant destructuion of your culture
Literally what?
>>74595787
Uniatism.
>>74595637
Nah, old Saint Petersburg looks great. Also I do like the look of Stalinist Empire style.
>>74595655
Organization within the Catholic Church that is reviving old school practices with the focus on the Latin Mass
http://www.fssp.org/en/
Their counterpart is SSPX (Society of St. Pius X) but they are more controversial and I am not sure if they are actually inside the Catholic Church or schismatic. I think history will vindicate them though
Anyway they are both groups that are fighting back against Francis and the church's modern liberalism
SSPX is just more hardline and they pissed off the church hierarchy. FSSP plays more within the lines
SSPV you should avoid (Society of St Pius V) as they are sedevacantists and they think the recent popes aren't actually popes at all
The argument is basically this
>The Pope is doing some bullshit
SSPX: This is bullshit I won't do it
FSSP: This is bullshit but I will play within your rules
SSPV: This is bullshit you aren't the pope anymore
My though is that the recent popes are just bad popes…but they are still Popes
Like Obama is a shitty president but he is still the president
ya dig?
>>74595536
I know, I'm a frequent attendee of the Latin Mass
But, it's different from the Divine Liturgy. There's something safer about the Divine Liturgy, because event the Latin Mass, if you're honest, has been "revised" from the time of Pope Gregory, and then from Pope Pius V.
Also, the communion only under one specie compared to the leavened bread with wine at the Divine Liturgy... It makes me wonder which came first- according to studies, the Catholic Church used to have leavened bread, and even had the Orthodox-style sign of the cross.
But why did these things change, is what I kept asking myself.
kirill calls for crusades, proof? also you'd think the pope would call for a crusade, but he allows muslims in and bashes the crusades by comparing jesus and his accociates to the spread of ISIS.
>>74596192
>according to studies
which studies?
Duncan Stroik newly built Catholic Church
Beautiful architecture is making a comeback
>Schismatics talking like they're the real church
>Caesaropapism not even once
Whatever issues one might have with His Holiness, at least he occupies the Chair of St. Peter as Christ's lieutenant on Earth.
Orthodox Christianity has largely played the cuck role to the secular government since its inception
>>74596322
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01349d.htm
"the bread must be, at present unleavened in the Western Church, but leavened bread in the Eastern Church, except among the Maronites, the Armenians, and in the Churches of Jerusalem and Alexandria, where it is unleavened. It is probable that Christ used unleavened bread at the institution of the Blessed Eucharist, because the Jews were not allowed to have leavened bread in their houses on the days of the Azymes. Some authors are of the opinion that down to the tenth century both the Eastern and Western Churches used leavened bread; others maintain that unleavened bread was used from the beginning in the Western Church; still others hold that unleavened or leavened bread was used indifferently. St. Thomas (IV, Dist. xi, qu. 3) holds that, in the beginning, both in the East and West unleavened bread was used; that when the sect of the Ebionites arose, who wished that the Mosaic Law should be obligatory on all converts, leavened bread was used, and when this heresy ceased the Latins used again unleavened bread, but the Greeks retained the use of leavened bread. Leavened bread may be used in the Latin Church if after consecration the celebrant adverts to the fact that the host before him has some substantial defect, and no other than leavened bread can be procured at the time (Lehmkuhl, n. 121, 3). A Latin priest travelling in the East, in places in which there are no churches of his rite, may celebrate with leavened bread. A Greek priest travelling in the West may, under similar circumstances, celebrate with unleavened bread. For the purpose of giving Viaticum, if no unleavened bread be at hand, some say that leavened may be used; but St. Liguori, (bk. VI. n. 203, dub. 2) says that the more probable opinion of theologians is that it cannot be done. "
The Orthodox use Scripture, using St. John's Gospel, as definitive that Christ used Leavened Bread, because it was before Passover.
>>74596192
The Popes have the authority to change things as they wish
In the past they usually had very good reason for doing so
For example the old church calendar was flooded with saint feast days so it basically eliminated ordinary days…so the pope made some changes so the calendar would make more sense
This is the problem with orthodoxy nothing can ever change because no one has the authority even if the change is just simple common sense or clarifying doctrine like the assumption of mary
I'm interested in the heavy focus on tradition in both Catholicism and Orthodoxy, however the fact that the catholic church constantly interfered with politics/warfare is off-putting. Is any orthodox church the same? Also do all orthodox churches do full immersion baptism?
>>74595622
My point is that compromise for the sake of compromise isn't something that has any intrinsic value. If you believe in an objective truth then you should never compromise that truth. I will give you that the filioque is somewhat of a misunderstanding, and indeed our separation from the Oriental Orthodox is more of a misunderstanding than a tangible theological dispute. Unfortunately for the relations between the RCC and Orthodox the differences aside from the filioque are very real and there really isn't much room for compromise. And much of the problems are over the fact that the Roman positions have been declared dogma. For example if you believe in the immaculate conception we wouldn't say that is heresy, but you say it is dogma and those who don't accept it are anathema, and that is where the real contention lies.
>>74595912
And how keeping your culture and liturgy meant destruction of it?
>>74596737
Look at Ukraine.
>>74596335
> shitty knockoff solomon's temple pillars from St. Peters
>little to no ornamentation
>SQUARE CORINTHIAN PILLARS
Anyone who knows anything about architecture can tell this is a 21st century construction and a thoughtless derivation from previous work.
He's smashed together styles and pieces of work that shouldn't go together, and missed most of the important things a traditional cruciform church should have.
The ONLY redeeming feature is the control of light, which he does well, but everything else about this building is ugly as fuck to be quite honest, and only someone with an entry-level appreciation of architecture would be impressed by this work.
>>74596615
That's an advantage, because there's no situation where confusion can arise, because it's so clear, because it's so unchanged....
>>74596598
isn't this quote telling me that unleavened bread was used by Jesus, that at te beginning both West and East used unleavened bread, and that leavened bread was the temporary result of a heresy in the West and a permanent change in the East?
So how is this supporting your point instead of refusing it? I am confused
>>74596615
>the problem with orthodoxy nothing can ever change because no one has the authority
The authority lies in the seven great ecumenical councils, we just haven't had a need for once since then.
>clarifying doctrine like the assumption of mary
What are you talking about, we celebrate it on August 15 just like Catholics do.
>>74596615
Yes, so it all boils down to Papal Primacy, and boy oh boy, Pope Francis isn't helping how I see the Papacy at this point.
>>74581722
how do i believe in god help
>>74596689
>do all orthodox churches do full immersion baptism?
No, not necessarily. We do it when it is feasible though.
>>74597012
From that article, it says that the Latin Church kept changing the practice, or was indifferent to it- that's why I'm attracted to the East, because they have more clarity about practice, and can theologically and scripturally justify it with clarity. That's all I'm asking for, clarity and consistency.
>>74597293
Isn't the Catholic way of Baptism the "emergency baptism" of some Orthodox Church?
>>74596810
Romania has a Greek Catholic Church, and they're doing fine.
>>74596510
Reminder that St. Peter was the bishop of Antioch before the was the bishop of Rome.
>b-but he was martyred in Rome
Means absolutely nothing.
>>74597409
They are ordinary Orthodox.
>>74581722
>implying your denomination is "orthodox" for more than slavs and greeks
>>74581722
Ive got a friend who is Orthodox, who will be visiting over the weekend. Conversion has been a great experience for him it seems, and it has been a good influence so far as I can tell. However, despite his good experience with it, I can see numerous issues with it.
The strongest one is that it is very, very authoritative. Some people need that, and for those people, Orthodoxy is fine, but here in America, most people do not. We manage our business just fine without a priest pretending to be God telling us how to run our affairs.
Less social law, more divine grace plzkthx.
>>74597460
The priests and bishops without beards? Thought they were Catholic.
>>74597456
he founded the papal state in rome before he died :^)
Why do you think he left the east?
>>74595746
I'm not necessarily promoting atheism and I don't consider myself one. My grandmother is also an upstanding protestant and she's one of the people I respect most. Most religions have at least some good messages, but Christianity and its cousins often contain bigotry and all kinds of superstition. It's totally fine to believe in God, but to follow a "holy book" is just foolish in today's age. People need to grow up.
Abrahamic mythos and old churches are cool, but that's pretty much it.
Okay let's just say in theory I wanted to convert to Orthodox to roleplay a paladin.... do I have to stop masturbating to porn?
>>74596710
You seem to not understand. Our disputes in most part at thier very core are meaningless becouse at the end we find out that we belived the same thing for the beging just in the difrent way. It's like we are looking on a shadow and I see a square when you see a triangle when the truth is that the thing that cast shadow is a pyramide illuminated for difrent angles.
Side note: The immaculate conception was Eastern Christianity thing at start.
>>74597739
My understanding is that the Orthodox consider masturbation, especially when paired with consumption of pornography, to be sinful. They have a subtly different conception of sin than the more guilt oriented Catholics, but you still dont get to jerk your chain.
Its one of my issues with them. They think they can transcend the flesh by pretending it doesnt exist. Forced asceticism produces derangement. Still better than the Catholics on this front though.
>>74596810
Oh right, Union of Brzesc that created Greek Catholic Church - birthplace and savior of Ukrainian nationality and culture. from Orthodox Russian.
>>74597719
If you're not a bigot, then you have no opinion, or at least feel any passion and conviction for it.
The Bible came from the Church's lived experience, not the other way around. That's why Early Christians didn't have a Bible, outside of the Old Testament, and a bunch of letters passed around.
I'm torn between the Catholic and the Orthodox, but one of these is the True Church established by Jesus Christ, not Martin Luther, not John Calvin, not some guy with a Bible.
The founder of Christ's Church did not use a Bible, Jesus Christ never asked anyone to write down what He said or did.
>>74597294
>From that article, it says that the Latin Church kept changing the practice
It does not say that though, it actually says the exact opposite. Let me quote:
>It is probable that Christ used unleavened bread at the institution of the Blessed Eucharist
So the time the Eucharist was established, the bread was unleavened
>St. Thomas (IV, Dist. xi, qu. 3) holds that, in the beginning, both in the East and West unleavened bread was used
So at the beginning the Orthodox too had unleavened bread
>when the sect of the Ebionites arose [...] leavened bread was used
So leavened bread was introduced by a heresy in the Church
>when this heresy ceased the Latins used again unleavened bread, but the Greeks retained the use of leavened bread
So it is actually the greeks who changed it, and unleavened bread by the Latins is the oldest practice
Don't take me wrong. I think it's quite silly that you would think such a thing is important, but disregard Matthew 16:18 when deciding who holds the last word in doctrine and therefore on how the bread should be.
The text though, says the opposite of what you claim it says, so I am starting to wonder....can you read?
>>74592005
>"The proof is that the devil doesn't bother attacking their church"
>Greeks lose all of their land
>Armenians and Greeks get genocided
>Entirety of Eastern (Orthodox) Europe on under the yoke of Communistic Jews for 100 years
YEAH GUYS ORTHDOXY HAD IT SO EASY HURR DURR
>>74597932
What I like about Orthodoxy is the priests behave more like spiritual doctors rather than your spiritual parole officers/lawyers.
>>74597719
>people need to grow up
And then you realize most never grow up and simply adopt other, often far worse fairy tales to believe in.
Just look at Western society now for example.
>>74597952
[spoiler]Smiem polemizować, zdaj mi się że podwaliną narodu ukraińskiego było powstanie Chmielnickiego w 1648[/spoiler]
>>74597952
That's your, Polish nationalist and ahistorical point of view.
It's cool promoting your interests but here we're anonymous, no need to pretend.
>>74597363
Well if we don't do the full immersion we still dump an entire pitcher over the head 3x, we don't just sprinkle a couple drops. But I suppose there's room for economia there, say you're in a desert or a prison cell with scarce water, I don't think anyone would say you can't be baptized unless there's enough water to really do the job.
>>74597582
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations". Also see Galatians 3:28. What you're suggesting is phyletism, which is heresy.
>>74598022
I was going by the Gospel of John, I used that article to point out that some scholars disagree, and that's why it throws the whole thing into doubt, at least for me.
Maybe it's an emotional thing.
I tend to believe that the Church changes things more frequently, if the past few decades are an indication. I'm just tired of it. The whole Eucharist, leavened/unleavened bread is just the straw that breaks the camel's back, so to speak.
>>74598101
That is my problem with clergy in general, though. My relationship with the creator is too important to risk handing it over to a priest to manage on my behalf. Whether they take the appearance of a doctor or a parole officer, I cannot help but think I am engaging in some form of idolatry if I take their word over God's whispers around me.
It is faith in men that I am shaky on, not faith in God.
>>74597932
The entire point of religion as a whole is to make you a better, more holy, person than a man with no religion.
Religion isnt a feel good party where you get to make the rules whatever you want. That is actually my big problem with the current Pope even though I am not Catholic. He basically came in and said the bible is wrong, 2000 years of teaching is wrong. Maybe fags and condoms are ok... He is possibly the most delusional fringe figure to ever reach global power.
All that said, Catholics go to hell as do Eastern Orthodox no matter what.
>>74598000
Define "bigotry". Also, what's your point?
>>74598104
Religion makes empty promises to dampen our fear of dying and disappearing forever. This is subjective, but I consider it far worse than hedonism.
>>74598482
Bigotry is a simple, stubborn adherence to an opinion, no matter how wrong others think it is. I think nowadays it means having an opinion others find offensive.
>>74598446
If you are thinking of religion in terms of difficulty, you are not thinking about your relationship with God, you are thinking about being "better" or "more holy". That is hubris embodied, because judgment is reserved for the lord alone.
Tend more to your own garden and worry less about the garden of your neighbor. It is not "the Catholics" and "the Eastern Orthodox" who are flirting with a path to hell.
>>74598318
>I was going by the Gospel of John,
Considering that scholars see it as more likely that Jesus used leavened bread, and that scholars know probably more than you and certainly are not ignorant of the Gospel of John, I would rather trust them 2bh.
>I tend to believe that the Church changes things more frequently, if the past few decades are an indication.
Don't move goalposts, this has nothing to do with the "current year". Besides this isn't an argument for leavened bread being older than unleavened bread at all
>The whole Eucharist, leavened/unleavened bread is just the straw that breaks the camel's back, so to speak.
Too bad unleavened bread seems to have been used beforehand. Just admit you are:
a) an orthodox false-flagging as a catholic to convert others
b) you are just a person with little faith that wants to change because "the current year pope" does not seem to inspire him security. Changing Church won't make your faith magically grow anon. But if you really want to, go ahead and do it.
>>74598429
Well, why can't you trust that good clergy were sent by God to assist you?
I've met many good priests, and many more I want to strangle, but they have a purpose, or else Christ would not have ordained the 12 men he personally trained, nor would they have trained their own assistants and successors.
>>74598429
As a Catholic, you can not speak to God directly. Only a Priest or the Pope can speak to god.
>>74598627
>Bigotry is a simple, stubborn adherence to an opinion, no matter how wrong others think it is.
That's a new one. As far as I know, it's intolerance against people who think otherwise, which is also what I mean. "Holy" texts that contain hate need to be purged by fire. It's an abomination.
>>74598122
Kozaczyzna nie wiele wspólnego ma z Ukrainą obecną. Feliks Koneczny pisał o naszych drogich Rusinach dość szczegółowo więc do niego cię odsyłam.
>>74598192
Dude. Read about it. Read about GCC during partitions. And how russification of Ukrainians and Belarusians was promoted by their Cerkiew.
>>74597777
But we don't believe in all the same things, we believe in some of the same things. The RCC teaches things that I consider to be untrue, it's not relative. If what you're saying is true then we shouldn't even try to convert people from Islam. They worship the same God after all, they're just doing it "in a different way". And if there is an objective truth to the scriptures, then we can go farther as to say that any distortion of that truth comes from Satan. I do agree with you however in the sense that our beliefs are "close enough" that I would call you a brother or sister in Christ.
>>74581722
Not for long OP
>>74598482
>but I consider it far worse than hedonism
Then you aren't considering the impact of hedonism on society.
Again, look at West today.
>>74598817
I read a lot about it and I know history quite well.
Ukrainian nation or Belorussian nation simply never existed. They were East Slavs (or Russians as they were collectively called), and those you mentioned were first Polonized, not Russified. Those were Russian principalities that were conquered by Poland and Lithuania.
Of course existence of such nations is in Polish interest, since Poland would dominate them and in time turn them into Poles.
Russians obviously don't like that.
>>74598746
Im sure that there are good clergy out there, but the real question is not "Why cant you trust that this clergy were sent by God?" but rather, "Why should I trust that you are the one?". More to the point, "Why should I trust that there is only one?", or "Why should I trust that this church is the only place to find guidance?"
Ive managed to cultivate a good relationship without clergy, why fuck it up?
>>74598799
Its a good thing Im not Catholic then, otherwise I would be in trouble.
Ive never understood why white people feel the need to have a hundred intermediaries between them and their creator. A man should approach God with his head held high, and speak directly, like men do to beings they respect and love.
>>74590620
10/10 would cherish, love, and protect for all my life.
>>74598709
Well, the reason I'm still Catholic is that I'm afraid that if I go Orthodox, I'll see that the grass is as dry and disappointing there, and I'll probably end up an atheist.
So, I just sit every Sunday at a Catholic church, while they play something by Dan Shutte, in a catatonic state.
Of course, I have more sense than to receive communion, everyone around me goes to communion because they feel entitled to it, not because they actually believe the bread to be Jesus Christ. The whole "Don't kneel, this non-priest will administer the Sacrament because wow, just wow, it's 2016" is another thing.
Also, I like how bread and wine were always administered together in the Divine Liturgy, but this was inconsistent in the Catholic Church. Now, they have laypeople administering it. It bothers me.
>>74598641
You are unable to have a relationship with God if you are unworthy of his mercy. That said a repentant sinner may still be saved in the end. The only thing that ensures you end in the Hell Fire is in the words of Mathew, "saying thou fool" to a follower of Christ
>>74598799
>As a Catholic, you can not speak to God directly. Only a Priest or the Pope can speak to god.
Citation needed.
I'm Catholic and I pray to God all the time.
>>74599211
Why would God create an unworthy thing? A worthy artisan imparts onto all his creations some measure of his own worth. To suggest that any being is unworthy of mercy is to suggest that God is unworthy.
>>74599182
>while they play something by Dan Shutte
>Now, they have laypeople administering it
nice b8 m8, here's your (you)
>>74584562
Why
>>74599509
Seriously, I live in Los Angeles.
I went to Torino last summer, for the Shroud's display, but I was really disappointed by the Masses there. The churches were breathtaking, but the clergy.....
>As a Catholic, you can not speak to God directly. Only a Priest or the Pope can speak to god.
kys
>>74599317
I think this thread is full of """""""catholics"""""""""""""
>>74599317
Its long and complicated (as are the majority of things in Catholicism) When you pray, you are praying to a saint. (Which is why non-Catholics say Catholics go to hell. They are warships someone other than God)
You are going to need Google and a solid weekend to make it through all the church dogma on this
>>74599657
do you really think anyone will believe any of this to be true? Not even the most redneck hillibilly protestant will fall for these memery
>>74599616
That can't be helped, statistically. Catholicism has the most adherents.
>>74599437
God spoke very clearly to humanity. He gave very specific instructions for all eternity. Knowing this, and not living by his word means you are unworthy of his love and mercy. You knew the rules and consciously decided for whatever reason to not follow them.
This is where Purgatory comes in. It is basically detention hall for Catholics who broke the rules but who would be not-politically correct to burn in hell.
Everyone else believes that if you dont follow the rules you go to hell. You were given a chance, and you squandered it.
>>74599657
I dont see any issue with asking for qualified intervention now and then. It is relying on it exclusively that bothers me.
>>74598934
I am.
I don't agree with people that try to make it a battle between religion and hedonism. There are more facets to the death of civilizations. There are religious shitholes and vice versa.
>>74599110
The Orthodox Church is the fullness of the faith. That is not to say that you can't find any truth anywhere else. The problem is in protestant churches you will only find some of the truth, and in the RCC you will find the truth with a bunch of added untruths. But we would never say anyone who is not a baptized Orthodox Christian is condemned. We are saved by God's grace, not our works. We are judged for our works though, so the Church is still your best bet. And Christ said "upon this rock I will build my Church". He didn't say Churches plural. And the Apostles ordained bishops, deacons, presbyters. They sent themselves to chrismate new bishops and the epistles were meant so every city was in communion with their beliefs. The ecumenical councils were held to clear up differences. If you believe that the 30,000 different sects that there is now is undesirable, then it follows that there is only One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
>Ive managed to cultivate a good relationship without clergy
Generally speaking, the closer to righteousness people get, the more they realize just how big of a sinner they are, the more they feel the need to pray and fast. There will always be someone wiser than you that can help you along the way. If you think you're fine on your own you're maybe not in the best spiritual place. Sounds like either pride or vanity.
>>74581722
Christian Identity is superior.
>>74599832
think about this. You are tryin to spread your ideas with lies and deceit.
I have nothing more to say to you
>>74599894
>. And Christ said "upon this rock I will build my Church
yep, the Catholic Church, thank you for noticing ;)
>>74599929
You're a minority, Le Fedorini. You have no objective basis for truth without God.
>>74581722
The church is a business that sells sermons. Fuck them.
True altruism and good values come from within, not out of fear of some invented vengeful deity
>>74599832
Um, not inside the US it doesnt. Catholicism is barely above serpent handling Pentecostals. In fact if you live outside the east coast or the midwest, you can easily go your entire life and never meet a Catholic.
You have to go to a place like Latin America where the inquisition still hangs heavy over the church and the heads of its followers, to find any significant pockets of Catholics
>>74599886
Also, some people in this thread:
>pls guis help me pick a Christian denomination
Why don't you fuck off and read the scriptures for yourselves? What is this if not true degeneracy? Makes me wanna puke, fuck.
I can't bring myself to start believing in fictional Jew gods, let alone worshiping them. But if I could, I'd probably convert to Orthodoxy. Hope to see it blossom in the coming years.
>>74600031
>le Fedorini
I am a Catholic, unlike you
