The minimum wage needs to go up.
#feeltheBern
>Berniecrat Meme Warehouse
>>74573079
(you)
also sage
>>74573079
>he only has one boat garage
>>74573079
>be australian
https://www.fairwork.gov.au/how-we-will-help/templates-and-guides/fact-sheets/minimum-workplace-entitlements/minimum-wages
>>74573079
>Because every business owner owns a yacht.
I don't know what prevent all these people to start their instead of crying for more shekels.
IT'S A SHIP YOU FUCKING MORON
BOAT: SMALL
SHIP: BIG
GET IT RIGHT NEXT TIME
>>74575149
>everyone should just be a business owner! its easy and it would totally work out
>>74575511
So you agree that the few people who actually managed to make it as a business owner deserve to reap the rewards for their work? Good.
>>74576176
>literally
>even
ugh
>>74576267
Not an argument
>>74573079
We need basic income. Not min wage
>>74576453
>low skill workers don't deserve to get paid much
>i'm tired of people getting welfare and handouts
never change /pol/
>>74576729
That's why we need to get rid of minimum wage AND welfare, you fucking moron.
>>74576176
If you take their salaries and give 15$ each to people you'd only get 300-1000 people paid in each company, not to mention the absurd idea of the fucking CEO earning as much as a burger flipper
Wage depends on the value that the worker provides to their employer and the customers, not a magically set minimum price of labour. Should an employee be unhappy with their current wage, they either need to find another job or protest the wage in a privately organized strike. Simple as that.
>>74576729
>posts two things that aren't mutually exclusive
>acts like its a fallacy
never change faggot
>>74577328
Swell idea. And what happens to the millions of people who don't make enough money to buy food and pay rent despite being employed?
>>74576713
>>74576729
more money in the hands of plebs equals more money spent.
disregard the fact that places they put the minimun wage up, the unemployment went DOWN.
because disregarding facts is fun.
.
This is your reminder that without controls you would all be working for a dollar a week and living in company barracks for gurbworm-meal money
>>74576729
Both need to be abolished. That's the only way you can lift poor people out of poverty.
>>74573079
Holy shit that's a nice yacht.
>>74577770
I don't want to lift anyone out of anything. If they fail and die it's their problem, not mine.
>>74577685
If their are millions of people who can't afford these things then their price will come down. Supply/demand.
>>74577854
Oh, so you don't care if I tax you more? You don't care if we raise minimum wage and ruin your life?
Ok then.
>>74577854
See, this is a fine mentality to have if you are a hermit and not part of a tribe or nation. The whole reason countries like the United States exist is because the individual cannot go it alone.
Take one look around the room are are sitting in and name one thing in it that is exclusively and 100% the product of your labor.
>>74576713
Here you go.
>>74577764
>more money in the hands of plebs equals more money spent
Why not make it $100 then? That way everyone will be rich, right?
>>74577764
>places they put the minimun wage up, the unemployment went DOWN
Fundamentally false, m8. You cannot escape basic economics by wishful socialist thinking.
>>74578079
So you've just inflated the value of money and nothing has changed
>>74577764
>without controls you would all be working for a dollar a week and living in company barracks for gurbworm-meal money
By that logic everyone would be working for minimum wage right now, though.
>>74576729
>he thinks flipping burgers should be a life long career
>>74578218
Pretty much. Somebody earning $15/hr before the minimum wage increase will demand a wage increase too, because he/she clearly has more skills and experience than some burger flipper at McDonalds who doesn't deserve $15/hr.
>>74573079
>The classic argument against raising the minimum wage
But that's not an argument...
>molyneux.jpeg
>>74577869
haha, no. that is not how supply and demand works in a Capitalist economy. All things have a base cost, and all things are incentivized to that cost.
If people do not have enough money to buy things, the price of things will not drop past the point it costs to make it. It cannot do that in fact.
If people stop buying things, the Capitalist producer simply stops making things and fires ALL his employees. Causing a chain reaction through the economy and collapsing the system.
Marx was correct about the inherent flaw in Capitalism.
The incentive of the Capitalist is to make things as cheaply as possible, and since he cannot cut costs in materials inputs, the only thing he CAN cut is Labor costs, because Labor is a human input and is dependent on the Capitalist to provide jobs. But if Labor is not getting paid, then it cannot afford to buy things. The things the Capitalist is making. And when that happens, the whole edifice of Capitalism collapses and revolution occurs.
He then proceeded to come up with a shitty solution to the problem with Capitalism. The problem is real though. Fucked up incentives suppress wages, destroys the consumer class, and then the economy as a whole.
>>74575307
First thing I noticed too. Berniefags have no vocabulary. If you can park a boat in it, it's probably a ship.
Getting tired of posting this every thread, faggots.
If minimum wage goes up then supply of minimum wage products goes down, increasing their price.
This is not the same as inflation.
Basically, cheap shit will get more expensive, but expensive shit will stay the same price. This is not rocket science. Who even pays their employees minimum wage anyway?
>>74576176
Wtf Chipotle
>>74573079
>small business owners do not exist
bernouts really sticking up for the common man :^)
>>74578218
Oh I forgot to mention, the savers would get fucked, because they saved their cash during a time before the minimum wage was increased, so it would be worth even less. That's a lot of saver's who would have wasted years of work, only for some protesting burger flipper to demand they get paid for doing a dead-end, crappy job.
>>74576176
btw jc penney's is failing.
>>74578218
Exactly.
Notice how Australians are always whining about their prices.
They always go ''boohoo, why do I have to pay 80 dollars for a video game?? Why is everything so expensive????''. It's because their minimal wage is so fucking high.
When you increase minimal wage prices increase too.
You'd think that moving to Australia is great because their minimal wage is 17 dollars. Notice how these stupid Liberals aren't threatening to move to Australia if Trump becomes president. It's because minimal wage is a meme that even these illiterates don't actually believe in.
>>74577685
Abolishing minimum wage means worker and employer negotiating salary.
Employers would be stupid to set their salaries too low and workers would be stupid to work for anything less than what they need (unless they wish to work two jobs). Everyone gets what they need from the agreement (pay, hours worked, benefits, holidays, etc.)
Hell I can even see before you graduate high school that you sign up for several pseudo unions depending on types of occupations and they get you educated on what your pay should be/negotiating/etc.
>>74573079
Would be interesting to see who's boat that is
>>74577982
I'm sitting on the toilet and I'm pretty sure this glorious turd was all my doing
>>74576176
It's not true with revenu
>>74575149
Impliying it's possible just look the statitistic.
>>74573079
Impliying a better circulation of the money is a bad thing
>>74577685
They starve, we have more room. We can't lose
>>74573079
there definitely is a problem with rich people becoming ever richer but raising the minimum wage isnt going to solve it
>be libtard
>think that raising the minimum wage hurts CEOs at all
>Dont understand that it just ruins small businesses and makes big businesses bigger
Libtard logic
>>74578531
There is no such thing as a "Minimum Wage Product". There is only the cost of things related to the amount of profit that can be made.
All a Minimum Wage product is, is something cheap that is priced in such a way that it can still turn a profit, and just HAPPENS to be affordable to someone with a minimum wage. And is usually done to economy of scale.
It is completely unrelated to what wages actually ARE, and if anything speaks to a fundamental issue that a "Minimum Wage Product" can still turn a profit with huge economies of scale.
This is a business model that favors very large multinational corporations with limited competition and new entries into the market. This also means limited innovation and product stagnation.
>>74578079
>working at McDonalds generates $23 in revenue
Any job that can be done by a robot is automatically worthless. McDonalds only has employees still because people would boycott them if they switched to automatic tellers and a few human managers. You'd get your food faster, and your order would always be correct, but you'd take away the "life giving" jobs that crack addicts, black single mothers, and high school kids rely on.
>>74573467
>Pay everyone $17.29 an hour.
>The price of everything goes up to compensate for the increase.
>Everyone's buying power is the same as it was before
>Everyone loves faggot politicians
>>74578740
>0 â–¶
>>>74577685 (You)
>They starve, we have more room. We can't lose
Nobody goes quietly into the good night.
>>74578779
What if minimum wage was only for large corporations?
>>74578079
I think it would be even more accurate if in the last picture there were two smaller houses down there that said permanently unemployed under the water.
How many jobs were created building the big boat
How many jobs were created designing the boat
How many jobs were created building the smaller boat
How many jobs were created designing the smaller boat to park inside the bigger boat
How many jobs were created for maintenance on the boat
I would go on
No it doesnt, you just need to get a real job.
>>74578825
Then nobody would work for a small buisness
>>74578649
Negotiation doesn't help when you've got no leverage, m8.
Abolishing the minimum wage just means a resurgence of unions, and a return to the glorious days of 1910-1920s unironic socialist and communist worker's parties burning down businesses and fighting all-out street wars with strikebreakers.
>>74578784
Labour is an input cost when producing a product. When the price of labour goes up, the cost of producing goes up, and so the supply goes down as firms exit the market. Supply shifts to the right and price goes up.
>>74573079
>The minimum wage needs to go up.
>Minimum wage goes to $15
>Suddenly the SEIU starts to unionize these workers
>Pay union dues, a good % of which are shipped off to the Demoncrat party
>That's been the plan all along
If the minimum wage goes up, the Earned Income Tax Credit needs to go away too.
>>74578936
>supply shifts to the right
*left
lmao
>>74578577
small business owners exist.
if they didn't, I wouldn't have to hear them constantly begging for every type of welfare there is from everyone who will listen.
>let us guilt you with "buy local" propaganda even though we can't compete on price
>let us stiff you as an employee because "we're all friends here"
>let us ignore child labour laws because "we're a family business"
>provide us with a neverending stream of tax breaks, grants, and other gibsmedat
>constantly disrupt the public dialogue with "muh small business" everytime someone wants to raise taxes for people with boats that they park in other boats
small business owners are the niggers of the corporate world.
>>74578872
Significantly less than would be created producing cheaper boats for more people.
The largest employers in the world aren't luxury retailers, they are petrol and fast-food companies. You know what's special about those kinds of companies?
Their products are sold to, and affordable by, everyone.
>>74578872
Tricke down economy theorie is the most ridiculous argument never made
>>74573079
do you know how much that guy pays his workers?
>>74579060
Small businesses built america faggot
>>74579101
>No refutation
Don't you have some surrendering to do?
>>74578764
Savers (which includes the rich) are hit the most. Sure the rich can continue to make more money, but their current balance is worth less, because the time and energy required to earn that same amount after a minimum wage increase has decreased.
Look at it this way:
>minimum wage = $7/hr
>livable wage = $15/hr
>shlomo's balance = $100,000
>pleb to earn that same amount = ($200,000 / $7) = 28,571.4 hours (1,190 days)
>>increase minimum wage to $15/hr
>pleb to earn that same amount = ($200,000 / $15) = 13,333.3 hours (555 days)
That's like 46% drop in value; the $200,000 is now worth 46% less.
(My math is bad :) )
>>74573079
Obamacare fucked many companies over forcing benefits for those working 30 or more hours, now they're barely working 29 hours and companies are avoiding the fine
Now Obama just passed an overtime pay bill for salaried employees who make under $48K.
>The rule, slated to be formally released Wednesday, would essentially double the threshold at which executive, administrative and professional employees are exempt from overtime pay to $47,476 from the current $23,660. That’s expected to make 4.2 million additional workers eligible to receive time-and-a-half wages for each hour they put in beyond 40 a week.
https://archive.is/ABV2P
But nothing can go wrong with that, amirite?
>Several years ago, IBM voluntarily reclassified 7,000 salaried technical and support workers earning an average $77,000 a year to hourly employees after it settled a class-action labor suit for $65 million. The company cut their base salaries 15% to account for potential overtime, says IBM's MacDonald.
>IBM's Shar Anderson oversaw 20 workers in a customer service group. "It made me feel less valuable to the company," says Anderson, 55, who has a bachelor's degree in computer science and several professional certifications. Anderson, who's now in a similar but higher-level salaried position, says she "wasn't able to do my job" because she sometimes had to hand off emergency responses to colleagues after 5 p.m.
https://archive.is/nYLOx
>>74579283
Raising the minimum wage does not cause inflation.
See: >>74578531
>>74578926
explain.
>>74578792
>and high school kids rely on.
That's an important group that should have that style of cheap job to gain experience for future careers or get money for college.
>>74578936
See, the problem with this logic is that it would be true if we lived in a single global economy. We don't however. Which means wages are being suppressed not by the cost of labor in places like China and Indonesia, not in the United States.
Production and pay scales in such countries that are completely dependent upon a consumer class in the United States. A Consumer class that is Vanishing.
All things being equal, the Economy will eventually correct itself and stabliize with wages being the same everywhere, and the cost of making something in China will be no more or less then in the USA.
But all things are not very equal, especially with the Financial Industry replacing the old Blue Chip industrial companies as the primary generator of wealth in the USA.
What will happen instead will be a series of massive pendulum swings, economic shocks, and bankruptcies.
Do I think a Mimimum Wage increase will help things? Fuck no. The entire system is going to fail in this century and a new economic model will have be thought up. Especially because of the increasing factor of automation. Keep in mind, the cost of labor is going up in China. Hence the push for the TPP. Need to move all those factories to Vietnam and the Philippines. Eventually (as Marx also predicted) the Imperialist Governments will run out of "Colonies" for their rapacious Capitalists, and will be unable to prop up the massive leveraged bets of their banks. This will be a major contributing factor in the Collapse of Capitalism.
WW2 simply postponed the inevitable.
>>74579358
Lower skilled corporate jobs would have higher demand because they pay more. This means that corporate jobs are likely to get better quality labor, and that makes it harder for small businesses to start up.
I am communist missile now.
>Berniecrat Meme Warehouse
>>74579154
the businesses you're referring to didn't constantly demand gibs and rules exemptions. the entitlement of the modern-day "small business owner" is fucking disgusting, if these people had half the business accumen that they claim they'd be able to make money without constantly demanding tax breaks.
>>74577685
Like it or not, evolution applies to people too. If you are too much of a failure to keep yourself alive then you have to die.
>le rich ppl r ebil maymay
>>74578641
We have the same thing, high living costs.
BUT, big middle class. The high prices speak to the general wealth of people. It sucks for tourists but not for ordinary people.
>>74578404
>All things have a base cost
Including skilled labor. Minimum wage jobs are unskilled labor, the kind that thankfully does not make up the majority of society. Therefore, this supposed paradox of production without consumption doesn't and won't exist.
>>74579506
good point.
>>74579404
>Do I think a Mimimum Wage increase will help things? Fuck no. The entire system is going to fail in this century and a new economic model will have be thought up. Especially because of the increasing factor of automation. Keep in mind, the cost of labor is going up in China. Hence the push for the TPP. Need to move all those factories to Vietnam and the Philippines. Eventually (as Marx also predicted) the Imperialist Governments will run out of "Colonies" for their rapacious Capitalists, and will be unable to prop up the massive leveraged bets of their banks. This will be a major contributing factor in the Collapse of Capitalism.
This is all true, and I agree with it.
However, it's important to remember that services cannot be shipped offshore. You can't have your cheeseburger made fresh in Bangladesh and shipped to your table to order, for example. That has to be done in country, in the same building that you're in. Same with hairdressers and nail cutters and etc. etc.
So minimum wage is still important, and the globalised market isn't as globalised as a lot of people think it is - even if it is still very influential.
All I'm saying is that raising the minimum wage doesn't cause inflation, just price rises in industries where the wage is above the equilibrium point - which isn't very many industries, desu.
>>74576176
>the most liberal and modern companies get paid the most
>>74578641
They always threaten to move to Canada, and more specifically Toronto.
I'd say we should create a designated libtard zone but we already have one, it's called Ontario
>>74573079
Only a cruise ship? You better step up your game.
>>74577685
Sink or swim. Those who can swim will be able to pass on their superior genes.
>>74579629
>Including skilled labor.
This. People wouldn't be turning to pie-in-the-sky ideologies if business owners didn't carry on like they're entitled to everybody's labour for whatever they feel like paying, and then further entitled to be thanked for "creating jobs."
>>74573079
Deportation of illegal immigrants, tariffs to prevent big businesses from going overseas and tax breaks to allow businesses to have more money to re-invest in themselves would allow more workers to be hired overall at higher wages, negating the need for minimum wage
However because overall businesses would end up paying more anyway the resistance to raising minimum wage would disappear anyway in the event that 99% of jobs paid better than minimum wage anyway
The way for berniggers to get what they want and have it actually work is through Trump. Hell, nationalism begets socialism as when white people truly feel niggers and spics are their American brothers the resistance to socialism will decrease, enabling Sanders II to become president 20 years from now.
>>74573079
How are bern victims lack the self awareness of how embarrassing thier memes are.
Shit if your gonna shill atleast be good at it. This is just sad.
>>74573467
>austrailian min wage is $17
>buying electronic media and goods is inflated to accomodate it
Id like to just browse through a catalog of things you buy and do a comparison in prices
>>74573079
Fuck off shill.
The real minimum wage is zero, as Wendy's employees are finding out.
>>74573079
looks like someone is jeal that they arent getting a dinghy in their own porthole
>>74579869
Labourers are business owners. They're in the business of selling their labour. Now fuck off back to Redmonton or Moronto as appropriate.
>>74573079
Wages would have gone up on their own if you retarded liberals didn't flood the country with millions of shitskins who in turn had the effect of driving down the value of labor by means of flooding the market for the supply of labor, which was made even worst by companies seeking H1-B visas over Americans and the government paying companies to hire foreigners over citizens.
SO IT'S YOUR OWN FUCKING FAULT YOU HAVE SHIT WAGES, LIBERAL.
Suck it up, take it like a fucking man, and accept that there are real-world economic consequences for your bullshit.
>>74579852
>ss long"""""""""""""shekel"""""""""""""
we should remove the minimum wage so we can all be rich
>>74577764
show us this statistic, master of argument
>>74579869
I had a boss once who commented during lineup (our pre-service meeting) that we (the servers in his restaurant) should be grateful for him providing a place for us to work.
I said he should be grateful we showed up to sell his shitty food to customers, and good luck doing it without us. Walked out the door, put in an application to the restaurant down the street and was told to come in for my first training shift the next morning.
>>74580137
By that logic, a hooker is a business owner because she lets strangers fill her holes 7 nights a week
>>74579060
I have to words : regulation -> deregulation.
Regulating businesses restricts small business growth, leaving only giant businesses. Then, to maximize profit, giant businesses lobby for deregulation, fucking over even employees.
>>74579060
>>let us ignore child labour laws because "we're a family business"
ok i don't get why people are so resistant to child labor, if a kid WANTS to work let them.
But forcing anyone to work isn't okay.
>>74579404
>Especially because of the increasing factor of automation.
This is the one thing that I am heavily curious about. Automatons as an economic system would require a complete overhaul of the social structure as we see it. I'm trying to figure out how it will work, even if all service jobs got automated too, and i'm having trouble seeing it.
>>74580137
>Labourers are business owners. They're in the business of selling their labour.
I think the marxist differentiation (selling time vs. selling the product of time) is pretty simplistic, but it's orders of magnitude less retarded than what you just said. If you're not going to acknowledge a meaningful distinction between a business owner and an employee, we can't have a conversation about economics.
>>74577764
>more money for min wage = more money spent
you mean the same amount of moeny spent on the same goods because price of living has increased
you know this is the prime reason people cant live in san franscisco anymore right? min wage increase = cost of living increase
and its usually in the form of rent or general goods that arent from large chains
>>74573079
A luxury yacht might cost $100m. Paying 50,000 employees each $3/hour more amounts to $312,000,000 per year every year for the rest of the time you're in business, plus payroll taxes.
>>74578545
Ikr, that's the first thing I noticed. Who'd of thunk the Chipotle CEO earns more than the Dominos, Walmart and Wendy's CEOs combined?
>>74579346
Yes it fucking does.
>minimum wage = $7/hr
>fancy product/service "X" = $55
>hours to afford X = 7.8
>>minimum wage increases to $15
>>minimum wage will always be worth %12.8 ($7/$55 or $15/$117) of X's value (7.8 hours working at minimum wage)
>minimum wage = $15/hr
>X = $117
Why? Because neither business owners nor workers are fucking stupid. The minimum wage increase effect is fleeting at best, where some shops haven't adjusted their prices in time. Nobody wants their worth devalued, so people will demand a wage increase proportional to minimum wage, because people value their work over burger flipping. The only people hit = savers.
>>74580415
We have child labor laws so Pedro doesn't force his 13 year old kid to work in a box factory for 9 dollars an hour in order to fund his crippling alcoholism.
It's not the kids, it's that poor families in poverty will use their children as tools to keep them afloat rather than letting their kid try and climb the economic ladder by themselves.
You can't make a kid work legally but you sure as shit can bet that there will be families that will beat their kids at home for not working and giving them every dollar.
Besides, by the time the kid wants to work, they'll be old enough to get a paper route or fast food job.
>>74580415
I agree, but the only problem with this is that people will claim that the child 'actually doesn't'want to work', and that the child can't decide for themselves.
>>74577481
Oh, I see. You're a jew.
>>74573079
this argument is retarded.
these people should definitely be rewarded for what they've made.
that being said you can't go to far and go full kike on what you pay your employees and how much you suck out of your consumers.
>>74576176
>>74578545
>>74580738
No one bats an eye at Starbucks pay or prices
>>74573079
You are an idiot. It doesn't matter whats right or wrong, facts are what matter you emotional Progressive. Raise the minimum wage, then there will be less jobs, fact. Raise the minimum wage, they will replace you with kiosks, fact.
Your feelings don't mean shit, what will happen does. Right or wrong.
>>74580337
>>74580415
>raising actual valid points and not just calling people faggots
thank you, gents.
Regulation is the hurdle to all of this, obviously, but it's important to remember that those regulations didn't gain public support in a vacuum. Pic related. I would agree that regulation does inhibit small business, but generally big businesses are targeted for enforcement at a far greater rate (this isn't because the government is some benevolent force looking out for the little guy, it's because the potential for fines, penalties, and other forms of revenue are larger the larger the business is).
I'm not aware of any economic model that provides for workers' rights and environmental protection while also maintaining a business's reasonable freedom to operate. Stefan "not an argument" says you can do it by simply not patronizing businesses who behave in ways you don't agree with, but we all know that most people are too lazy/greedy for that to ever work on a large scale.
>>74580814
X can only represent products where the cost of labour equilibrium point is below the minimum wage. Where the cost of labour is higher than minimum wage for a product, product Y, the cost of Y will not rise.
A business process analysis consultancy firm that pays its consultant $600 and hour is not going to be impacted by a rise in the minimum wage, so they will not raise their prices because they are already at equilibrium. The people who pay for business process analysis consultancy are not going to suddenly have less money, because they're not consumers of product X in any number large enough for their "disposable" income to be significantly reduced, so demand for product Y isn't affected.
If supply and demand for Y are unchanged, the price of Y is unchanged.
Products getting more expensive is not inflation. Inflation relates to currency, not prices.
>>74577982
>The whole reason countries like the United States exist is because the individual cannot go it alone.
This has nothing to do with welfare. I didn't argue that a diversity of skill and labor isn't important, I just don't see the value in propping up the failures of others.
Nothing around me now was provided in part or in full by providing welfare.
>>74577764
>more money in the hands of plebs equals more money spent.
Yes, we call this inflation.
>disregard the fact that places they put the minimun wage up, the unemployment went DOWN.
Citation needed.
>>74578800
>>74579970
Go check out /v/, STRAYANS are always whining about $100+ games
Amazon AU looks so empty, no video games
Small businesses cant afford minimum wage
Big businesses can because economy of scale
minimum wage, and most socialist ideas are extremely against the small business / entrepreneur
>>74573079
Can someone else negotiate my labors worth for me? Thanks,Liberals
>>74578156
> Why not make it $100 then? That way everyone will be rich, right?
Because it's a multi-objective optimization problem with undefined objectives and no models worth shit.
The US has run trade deficits for half a century. Show me an economic model which could have predicted that (not explain with hand waving).
Jewish scheming, finite and impossible to substitute natural resources, military protection, market irrationality. There's so many fundamental forces in the world economy completely uncaptured by any economic model, Austrian or otherwise.
>>74579970
I've a mate in Australia who wanted to buy a microphone. It was the equivalent of US$200 in Australia and $75 in the US. I bought it and shipped it to him, saving him roughly US$110 after shipping.
Anecdotal evidence, but an example of what to expect.
>>74573079
GIMME YOUR STUFF YOU FUCKIN WEALTHY ASSHOLE YOU PROBABLY INHERITED IT REEEEEE
(even this argument is like; so my dad was better than yours, what?)
must have passed the wealth down from egyptian times. All of the wealthy are basically the descendants of vikings who jacekd churches and passed it down
>>74581362
>Small businesses cant afford minimum wage
then they don't deserve to be in business.
>Big businesses can because economy of scale
yes, and since we're on a finite planet with limited resources, we should probably make the most efficient possible use of those resources.
>most socialist ideas are extremely against the small business / entrepreneur
technological progress is against the small business. society shouldn't have to subsidize small business inefficiency.
>>74581287
Local purchasing power in Australia is higher than in the US.
>>74581824
How many items are made in Australia though?
>>74581507
Personally I'm more like :
Allowing that much wealth to concentrate in so few hands creates a separate society capable of capturing all political power. Wealth concentration has to be limited to preserve a livable society for normal people.
The natural outcome of unlimited wealth concentration is the re-constitution of feudalism. Only this time the kings won't really need most peons any more because of automation.
>>74573079
have a (you)
sage
>>74581175
>Inflation is defined as a sustained increase in the general level of prices for goods and services. It is measured as an annual percentage increase. As inflation rises, every dollar you own buys a smaller percentage of a good or service. The value of a dollar does not stay constant when there is inflation.
> a continuing rise in the general price level usually attributed to an increase in the volume of money and credit relative to available goods and services
How is prices increasing relative to the average wages earned not inflation?
>>74578800
>>74581287
>>74581497
>regular prices go up with min wage
I was kinda implying that with the greentext, but alot of people deny it when i bring this up to bernie supporters
people dont think commodities go up, I can literally reference real world examples and people refuse to believe it
why is it impossible to have civil debate with those people? its like im talking to muslims about how they subconsciously support suppression of free speech
>>74582063
>people dont think commodities go up, I can literally reference real world examples and people refuse to believe it
Just talk about apartment prices to the next Liberal who denies that
>>74581870
Very few.
Australian prices are high because very few firms operate in our markets, so cabals and monopolies are extremely common. For example, videogames. They're not expensive because of minimum wage, they're expensive because companies sell them at the price people will pay for them. Australians are willing to spend that much on videogames, so that's how much they cost, because there's virtually no competition except on the new big releases. All the companies are in giddy co-operation. Steam, for example, refuses to bring in regional pricing for Australia so that they can keep ripping us off. It's a rort, not a result of minimum wage.
Plus, nobody buys at those ridiculous prices anyway. I got D44M for $59. I don't know how much you guys paid for it, but I'm guessing not much less - if at all. And I make almost three times as much as a US minimum wage worker - plus commissions.
But products like food and power are much cheaper here, because we have massive primary industries that produce these essentials. A loaf of bread in Australia is something like 50% cheaper than the US, and fresh fruit and veg is similar thanks to our based tropical farms in far north Queensland. We pay less for power too.
>>74581784
sad that a fucking leaf gets it better than most of /pol/
>>74579376
>That's an important group that should have that style of cheap job to gain experience for future careers or get money for college.
Yeah I did that. Worked for an entire year when I got out of high school in order to pay for my Community College, I saved around 12 Grand that way.
But when the economy Tanked at around on 08 and 09 the business my father worked for went belly-up and I had to move in with him and help him pay for rent to keep a roof over his head. All my savings were drained away and I have been unable to save up ever since.
I need to go to college to get a better job but I can't afford to go to college because my job is shit. I'm making 11 bucks an hour and still can't save up because I'm in California and it's expensive as fuck to live here.
>>74573079
i'd probably get 30+ facebook likes if i posted this
my friends suck
>>74573079
The thing is, if you increase the min wage you gotta sale your boat.
Where as you can just sale your company or shut it down and buy another boat to park your other boats in.
>>74582063
fucking bernouts.
If they were smart, they'd get behind increasing prices as a way of eliminating inefficiencies from our production methods.
I used to support the methods of socialism (I still support some of the goals, at least in principle) but I'm becoming convinced that socialists really do believe that there's some Scrooge McDuck vault of cool shit somewhere that nobody had to produce through labour, and that everybody could have whatever they wanted if Scrooge would just share.
>>74582178
>talk about apartment prices
this was actually my first go to example before austrailia and they just straight up denied it saying they already had a lease agreement that its unlawful to change it
which in turn i told them they were being stupid since rent can just be changed at the end of a lease term
still denied the claim, 5 college grads denied this....can u guess their majors
>>74573079
>anyone who can afford that yacht would be parking the boat themselves
you can tell bernie supporters don't have any money. in fact, i don't think they've even known anyone with any money.
>>74582040
Because not everything gets more expensive. Jesus fuck, read the thread.
Only products where the cost of labour equilibrium point is below the price floor of the new minimum wage will get more expensive, so it's not "general". It's highly specific. This is because it's market interaction that determines prices. There is no magical inexplicable connection between price and wage, just market interaction, and so if you can't explain inflation through market interaction then you're flat out full stop fucking wrong.
Product X, which is produced by minimum wage workers, will get more expensive.
Product Y, which is not, will not get more expensive.
It's not inflation.
>>74582407
Hell, not even STRAYANS, ask anyone in San Francisco and Los Angeles.
I remember this because they're realizing it's all the tech companies increasing rent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MsYPVVkXJo
I think they actually attacked them too.
>>74573079
Thats a ship not a boat you idiots
>>74573079
>can't afford
It doesn't matter if they can or can't afford it. They don't WANT to pay their workers a higher wage. The money isn't channeled to them through magic or force. Consenting adults decided to give their money to these wealthy business owners because they decided that the service or product being offered was worth it.
What are you going to do? Hold the wealthy at gunpoint because what they want to do with the money they earned isn't what you wish they would do?
>>74577685
Maybe they'd have to get off their lazy nigger asses and learn an actual trade rather than being at home fucking obese Shaniqua and having 20 kids they obviously can't afford while depending on EBT?
Why is it my fucking problem when you are too fucking stupid to plan your life out and why do I have to pay for your mistakes?
>>74582300
>tfw you weren't born in america
I thank God every single day of my life.
>>74580239
>>74582668
And so the rest of the market won't demand pay raises because they value their skill above flipping burgers?
>>74582746
poor fuckers shoulda bought their houses instead of perma renting
>>74577950
Are you retarded?
>Muh government is keeping me down!
>It's YOUR fault that I am here!
If the government was planning to take your money, the rich would be taxed to hell. I know when commietard running for president already trying to do it.
They are taxing the poor less than everyone else already. But what would you know, Latvia faggot.
>>74581390
>There's so many fundamental forces in the world economy completely uncaptured by any economic model, Austrian or otherwise.
But we don't even have to get to complex models in the case of minimum wage. Supply and demand curves of labor are accepted in all economic schools, and there is no escaping the fundamental principles that underly them.
>>74583101
They can demand it.
They won't get it.
If a business process analysis consultancy firm pays its workers $600 an hour then there is no effect of the minimum wage of supply. The people who buy business process analysis consultancy are unaffected by the minimum wage rise because they don't buy products produced by minimum wage workers in any significant way, so demand is unaffected.
No change in supply, no change in demand, no change in price of business process analysis consultancy, so the firm has no change in revenue or outlays and no extra cash to splash around.
So where is this magical extra pay going to come from?
>>74583286
>minimum wage of supply.
on supply*
>>74581784
>then they don't deserve to be in business.
Yes they do. They deserve to negotiate with their workers to reach a fair deal for their unskilled labour. FREE TO CHOOSE.
>yes, and since we're on a finite planet with limited resources, we should probably make the most efficient possible use of those resources.
free market capitalism has been shown time and time again to be the most efficient way to allocate resources.
http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking
>technological progress is against the small business. society shouldn't have to subsidize small business inefficiency.
socialism is all about subsidizing inefficient business. they're very friendly to lobbyists. without over regulation - then there will be no point of lobbying to get the competitive edge.
>>74582375
I don't believe we could have any luxury goods we wanted. I do believe good education, health-care and elderly care can be "free" in a cohesive society. Since it's mostly a question of assignment of labor.
In the shit multicultural societies created in Europe it has stopped working though, trying to assign labor to those kinds of things through fiscal measures causes brain drain.
>>74578404
>cost-of-production theory of value
>Marx was correct
>labour is dependent as opposed to being complementary to capital
haha, no. Your premises are garbage.
>Causing a chain reaction through the economy and collapsing the system.
Firms shutdown in the short run when AVC is above MR. These structural changes are essential in efficient allocation of resources in this dynamic economic reality. Both producers and consumers make choices on the margin within the context opportunity costs. Your wild ass pull of a slippery-slope conclusion is pretty Marx tier, since he didn't understand a thing about business cycles as well but tried to comment on their symptoms.
>YOU WORKED FOR A LIVING AND MADE A TON OF MONEY
>I'M ENTITLED TO THAT MONEY BECAUSE YOU HAVE SO MUCH
>Berniecrat Meme Warehouse
