If God created the universe then who created God? If God doesn't exist then why does the universe exist?
>Thing is eternal without a beginning or end
>"Well, who created it?"
>>74541945
How do you know it's eternal? How do you know anything for sure?
>>74541678
The only good answer to this question for thousands of years: I don't know.
>>74541678
God didn't create the universe, God IS the universe.
Also, science can answer your question on how it can exist without being created. Just prepare for the answer to be complex and sophisticated.
>>74542489
>God didn't create the universe, God IS the universe.
You can't prove either of those "facts".
>Just prepare for the answer to be complex and sophisticated.
Science can tell us how, not why things happen. For that we need philosophy.
>>74542489
>God didn't create the universe, God IS the universe.
It's amazing how many people don't get this. That should be baby's first redpill.
>>74542911
>You can't prove either of those "facts"
>For that we need philosophy.
You just answered your own question. Go take Philosophy 101 if you want a philosophical proof of the existence of God. Don't shitpost about it on an anime imageboard.
>>74542086
God is eternal. We know this through the prophetic texts and Jesus Christ.
>>74542086
u cant kno nuffin
>>74541678
I like to think of God as an omnipotent force that embodies everything and everyone in the entire universe.
He always existed Anon. He exists in you and me.
>>74541678
>why does the universe exist?
careful with that question, m8
>>74542489
God is not the universe. God upholds the universe and defines it. The universe is nothing compared to God.
>>74543082
top kek
>>74541678
The universe is space and time - it has a beginning, such a beginning could only start from eternity - by simple philosophy you can understand that God exists in eternity - there was not a time when God was not absolute - there is no evolution or supreme force over God, otherwise there is no possibility for time to start.
>>74543194
Tip harder faggot
>>74543032
>Go take Philosophy 101 if you want a philosophical proof of the existence of God.
No u
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhonism
>>74543115
So your god is an impersonal force - a personification of nature that you invoke just for looking cool?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jfndCtV0gw
>>74543115
Why would a creator deity have anything to do with a morality dictating entity though?
>>74541678
>christfags being morons
Chances are OP we are just one universe in a long line of them, potentially with other universes existing outside our own.
I read an interesting theory that suggested balck holes might be the equivalent of an egg for a new universe. And universes which propagate more black holes propagate more children universes which share similar characteristics to the parent.
Still doesn't answer the question of how the initial universe being created. Maybe we really are a simulation.
>>74543161
God it not the upholder and definer of the universe. God is the wright of cosmic plane wherein the architect of fates dwells to construct the relative mites that are the upholders and definers of the universe. The upholders and definers of the universe lack manifestation in so many dimensions that it would be a complete redundancy to compare them to god as all assessable factors are on spectrums completely different; including the calibre of the spectrums themselves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7IyZYEcyyk
>>74543283
Not at all. If you want to know what God is, read some Christian texts.
>>74541945
>the universe exists, so it must by all logical means have a creator
>>>(who is obviously the Christian interpretation of a god)
>God needs no creator
>he had always existed
>>74543161
The physical universe is a consequence of God's abstraction, not a medium for it. The fundamental "God truth" implies what we percieve as physical reality, so they're pretty much the same thing.
>>74541678
Am I the only one who believes that science and religion go hand and hand?
-MemeMasterTexas
>Write some horse shit in a book literally thousands of years ago
>People believe it
Why?
>>74541678
>who created God?
no one. God ALWAYS existed. that's the whole point. does it make sense? yes and no. but that's probably how it is.
godly attributes:
>doesn't die
>lives forever
>doesn't get ill
>is the highest ideal we can imagine
>omnipotent
>a creator that creates
>primordial reason and foundation for EVERYTHING
>>74543321
Christ disagrees with you, and he is God.
>>74541678
He created the universe, He has been here forever.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinque_viae
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFUx_KC1bHQ
What does this have to do with /pol/?
>>>/sci/
God is created by a bunch of sandjews hungry power. Following such fairytales is the ultimate cucketry.
This is an atheist board. Retarded theist are only here for our amusement. Its a fucking meme.
>>74543353
The physical universe was created so God could express truth, by creating man he could teach monkies the beautiful nature of everything.
>>74543417
Everything is /pol/ related in some way or another.
>>74543257
Prove there's no God. Faggot.
> not a single word on hermeticism
> meme magick is real
> implies that the All is Mind
God (I.e. consciousness) is coeval with matter (I.e. substance). Neither one can precede the being. Existence is God thinking himself into existence.
When he fully comes to exist, Ragnarok ends.
>>74543194
Jesus Christ was wrong
we know this thanks to the sarcastic "top kek" comment of some Spanish anon
>>74543449
Yep, studying History from that region and that time, literally every fucking town and village had their own god. I personally like Assyrias god Ashur, why couldn't we have that god. Or the Babylonians god Marduk. Why the fuck did we get stuck with Yahweh???
We don't know OP.
Everything could be an illusion.
People always say science supports their side so that makes it a fact. WRONG!
Science is simply a compilation of theories based on the perceptions of man.
The only thing you know to be certain is mathematics (1+1 will always equal 2; it can't be manipulated) and your own existence (I think, therefore I am...).
>>74543557
Don't use the holy fathers name with your made up Bullshit.
God is exactly what he says he is.
We are a result of probability. If the universe played out ever possibility that could exist then we were bound to happen in one of those possibilities.
>>74542940
then what's the point of the word god you retard
worship and myth are for people who can't handle the idea of the unkown
just get over it, and if you can't get over it, become a scientist and try to figure shit out
>>74543595
Based on Perceptions that can be repeated in most places in the universe and the law still holds true. I'd say that's a bit better than compilation of theories.
>>74543557
Then all begins anew. Kali Yuga ends, Satya Yuga begins, at the same moment God creates himself.
>>74541678
Thinking about the scale, size, and age of the universe terrifies me. Is there an edge to the universe? Is there something past the furthest star?
>>74543595
It could be. But, you have the choice to believe there is meaning in things.
Christians believe in Christ, and believe everything hinges on him.
>>74543361
I believe science IS religion
there are laws of physical world
and there are laws of spiritual world
>>74543661
Fuck off Liebniz.
>>74543393
You have stringed an entire argument upon a fallacy; although it is a pity that this is the case, it would be a judicious consideration on your part, my faithful brother, to conceive of the greater axiom that failure is both the chisel and stone of greatness. Christ, both as a concept and as a manifestation in human form, is god's final rendition of the human spirit - but only experimentally so; for god had preconceived of the axiom I described in my previous sentence. The oversight on God's part was that he misjudged and failed to accept what was the human condition; evolution, success, civilisation, all to be wrought upon the foundation of counterbalances and incentives from opposition. It is thus a fatuous pursuit to model an 'ideal human' - for a collective based on an unitary personality would collide directly with the preeminent aspects of the human condition itself. Thus, ontologically speaking, God is but transcended beyond the conception of man as implied by his craftwork; and the mites that uphold and define the universe may rectify consummate man from the initial basis of Jesus Christ.
>>74543717
The two arent necessarily separate either. We don't know what the spiritual world is yet.
>>74543380
Well, people just believe what they want to be true.
>>74543361
no you aren't. religion did a lot for science. probably vice versa too.
>>74543755
I have spoken no fallacy.
You believe yourself wise by heaping up empty phrases.
God cannot make misjudgments. He is perfect in everything, along with his son, Jesus Christ.
>>74543032
>philosophy
>proof
>>74543717
All here.
Interpretingthephenomenology.blogspot.ca
Note I wrote each article without edition. Divine wisdom need not be sullied by the mind of a mortal.
Does anyone possess the mental discipline to know? Knowledge is divine.
>>74543688
The so called laws of the universe are fixated on mathematics, everything else is just an assumption because of the perceptions of man.
>>74543579
Jesus didn't even exist to begin with, you faggot.
>>74543361
Yes. In a philosophical sense, it's very arguable, but in a practical sense; yes. Both the pre-reformation and post-reformation churches were greatly beneficial in that they were the biggest enabler of federal and effective innovation promoting institutions. Without them there would be no means for genius to channel its' full efficiency into society. It is perfectly reasonable to accredit Europe's success purely to the Catholic church's promotion of these institutions
>>74543380
Cos it survived so long bro! That's about all it is, Humans were just so much wiser and more enlightened in the deserts of East Asia 2500 years ago, there views and opinions are of a much higher level than we can comprehend with our science.
It's a shame the catholic church got so fucking good at Brainwashing in the 1000 years after the fall of Rome
>>74543642
You're right. And tell me. When have I ever spoken to you, man of pride?
>>74543930
>>74543898
And god is not just an assumption based on the perception of man? What about this Jesus Christ fellow, everything we have is based on "perceptions of man"
At least Science has some foundation too it.
>>74543996
Use merchant maymays all you want, but truth is, there's no proof of Jesus ever existing.
>>74543506
Nothing can be proven, that's the point.
You can't prove that Christianity is the true religion. Same with Islam, Buddhism etc. It's just the way of life you choose. Maybe there is no god at all and people can't handle the idea of vanishing after death and living without a point. When we try to understand the universe it's like ants try to understand mathematics.
>>74541678
>impying universe exists outside our minds
>>74543301
>maybe black holes are eggs for a new universe
>maybe we are in a simulation
>there most certainly is no creator of anything fuckin christfags lmao
Atheists everyone
>>74543777
>>74543962
Or, some people believe the men who spent their entire lives preaching the message of Christ, and then got nailed to a tree for it.
Brutal torture and execution for a man they saw with their own eyes to be the Son of God. That's why we believe.
>>74543557
This is the only interpretation of religion I can get behind.
>>74543769
both are "muh feelings" and you can check those by an experiment
I had an experiment with Christianity and my life went to shit in materialistic terms yet I gained some kind of internal docility
it could be also a kind of depression
of course we will never be SURE if there is some kind of supernatural being or not
if it is supreme than it can fuck with our knowledge or hid well
you can believe and make a spiritual experiment with your life
for example, my reason tells me I should side with satanists as, by observing them, they are happy and successful people
of course I am not speaking of edgy faggots
but would world consisting purely of smug satanists work flawlessly?
>>74544133
really?
>>74544146
>people died for it, therefore it's true
Oh well...
Islam, here I come!
>>74544090
Let me guess, the Gospels and the letters of the apostles and the early church fathers and the Romans and the Jews arent enough evidence for you.
Oh, and you think Jews made jesus up to control the goyim?
>>74541678
>2016
>still thinking about objects when dealing with spiritual matters
>>74544090
and what would you make SURE He existed?
He is literally mentioned in Talmud, by Tacitus, that Jewish hippie was real, deal with it
>>74541945
this
>>74544256
Why would people spend their whole lives cultivating a lie, and die brutal deaths for what they all agreed happened?
This wasn't one person. It was several men all claiming to have seen the same things.
>>74544287
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism_%28philosophy_of_mind%29#Arguments_against_dualism
You can't prove that God and the material world are separate. Nor can you prove that they are one and the same.
>>74541678
Space and Time were shat out of an initial singularity of infinite density. There was no "before" (disregarding speculative models of Creation that do away with the singularity), and singularities aren't even considered to be physically meaningful objects. They're just holes in space and time, regions of true nothingness where the laws of physics break down completely. A particle can flow into a singularity and be removed from existence entirely, while random particles can stream out from the singularity as if they came from nowhere. Singularities defy all forms of logic and common sense, so it is silly to try and apply human intuition to events like the creation of the universe. It is our intuition that dictates the necessity of a"before", and something that exists truly without time is beyond understanding. Just because it doesn't make sense doesn't mean it's wrong, because reality is fucking crazy and does not give a shit about your feelings.
And honestly, if you attribute the creation of the universe to "God", then perhaps you should reassess what God actually is. Eternal, infinite, timeless, and creator of everything. Every single phrase can be used to describe the initial singularity. You want a God? There's your God. The Singularity is God.
>>74544171
>they are happy and successful people
Can you really know what they feel inside Anon-kun? Stop being edgy faggot and you will realize that you can feel that God is always around you.
"Wszystko będzie dobrze". Zawsze, nie ważne co.
>>74544381
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initial_singularity
>>74544133
>implying any of you exist outside of my mind
>>74544202
Yes
>hates jews
>worships a jew
>>74544268
Nope, easily covered up. And didn't it turn out the letters to the apostles were from the same fucking guy? And fuck the Romans, constantine switched the state religion to Christianity because he had a dream where a spirit told him to paint the cross on his Soldiers shields and he would win the battle.
Secondly Clovis of the Franks also switched to Christianity which is important because the Franks were warlike and the Catholic church had no army. But yet again it was done not because of belief in Jesus, but because of them winning fucking battles.
>>74544268
>gospels and letters
A generation after his death. Hearsay is now evidence, cool.
>church fathers
Bias.
>Talmud
Another great fantasy novel.
>romans and jews
Forgeries and hearsay.
Yeah, no.
If it lets you sleep at night, believe it. But you might as well scream "allahu akhbar" at the top of your lungs instead.
>>74544498
>Inb4 He was Hebrew not a Jew.
>>74544421
>implying we're not just same person
>>74543930
B-b-but i bought bones of Jesus from Tv-Shop so he must be true right... and couple stones from his tomb... noooo
>>74544555
did hebrews ever brew brews
>>74544300
>Talmud
Fake and gay.
>Tacitus
Hearsay.
>other stuff
Generations after the supposed death of Christ.
I dunno, find something.
>>74544347
Yeah, just like islam.
Also, people are retarded.
>>74544502
> science is not true but it fucking works
bb..but why did Romans choose a small Jewish sect?
why they did not accept Judaism? or some other religion? there were plenty around I guess
is the Bible, the NT and Christianity an elaborate joke by Jews and Romans, and perhaps Egyptians?
if so it is the Biggest Joke Ever
so is Moses historical?
pfff.. :) and Adam and Eve?
>>74544502
>Nope, that doesn't count
>Fuck history! Who needs facts?
>It was only one apostle, duh
Lol I swear, it's the funniest shit ever to see you atheists up on your high horse thinking you're bastions of wisdom and intelligence but at the end of the day you stick your heads in the sand like fucking children.
You have no argument, and you're a retard.
>>74544694
Constantine and Clovis facts were real friend. They didn't believe in Jesus, it was just what worked for them at the time.
>>74544659
Mohammad killed anyone who disagreed with him
Jesus died and was raised, and had the apostles speak on his behalf, who were also executed like he was.
The two arent remotely similar.
>>74544673
>science is not true but it fucking works
that's actually one of the ultimate redpills Anonku
>>74544770
What does that have to do with Christ?
That's a non sequitur
>>74544876
Rome did not switch the Religion to Catholicism because of Christ you claimed that's why we all believe the tales, because cunts died for him etc.
If Constantine lost that battle Catholicism would be dead like other ten thousand religions spawned from that cesspit of east Asia.
>>74544552
>It's all a conspiracy to fool the masses
>None of this is trustworthy because i said so
Or, you're a fucking retard. Your ancestors would be ashamed of you.
>>74545041
Again, what does that have to do with Christ and his authority?
Also, Constantine won that battle.
>>74544806
>Mohammad killed
>Jesus did not
Not an argument.
>>74541678
Just be a philosophical pantheist. It even works if you look at it from a methodological solipsistic point of view. Read the Tao Te Ching and the Advaita Vedanta as reference works.
>>74545106
My argument is Mohammad slaughtered anyone who didnt do what he said
Jesus preached a message, and said follow it if you want to
More people willingly chose Christianity than people who were forced under Mohammad's Muslim hordes
>>74545100
Well I guess it has nothing to do with Christ himself. But these are actual histoically verifiable events. The life of Christ, aside from books written by a cult using prophies from an older abrahamic religion is not.
>>74544568
>Implying i am not god and i just made the universe 5 seconds ago but it was al real in your mind
>>74544142
>there most certainly is a creator who controls us but gives us free will to control ourselves while he only gives you one option you either tip your head to a jew who sudoke'd himself on a stick or burn in hell
Chriscucks everybody
>>74545048
>projecting this hard
It's not a conspiracy. It's just Jewish fanfiction people still believe in because they want to.
Just like islam.
Doesn't make anything true.
>>74543557
t. Lovecraft
>>74545157
This is again where Rome comes into it friend. People did not willingly follow Jesus, he was a nobody. Constantine and the Romans, even Clovis to an extent has had much more influence on why we all follow Christianity as opposed to Jesus of Nazareth
>>74544268
No, they aren't actually evidence for that at all. The very earliest works are well after the supposed events, and also don't actually have a Jesus. Furthermore, their Christianity without Jesus was in existence for at least a century BCE. The Jesus figure only appears with the Gospels, and isn't even necessarily considered historical by their authors. The modern Jesus myth cannot be reliably seen in any documents dating from before the early part of the 4th century.
And no I don't believe the jews invented jesus - the early 'church fathers' of the western church are the culprits there. They wove together works from the common core of original christianity which was a couple of centuries old and had significant literature with works from unrelated jesus people(s) (proto-Mark, Q, and John/Hebrews springing from three different communities, and each originally an example of midrash, of holy fiction, which are only later re-interpreted literally by the church fathers.
>>74544287
>$current_year
Fuck yourself anon. That's a shit-tier meme and you have no good answer to the question of why there are objects yourself.
>>74544300
Certainty is difficult but unambiguous contemporary references, like we have for most purported historical figures from the time, would be sufficient for it to be credible, plausible.
>>74544381
The singularity can be seen as the primum mobile but how does consciousness arise in that scenario?
>>74544552
>>74544574
Exactly.
>>74541945
>>74543194
how is it possible for a thing to be eternal?
>>74545157
>Jaysus = choice
>Mohammad = force
Still not an argument. You're just speculating.
>>74545157
>Jesus preached a message
explain pic related then
>>74543350
>The Universe had a beginning, therefore has a reason for it as well outside of {the Universe}
>This is by definition God, as it was an actual thing with all the potential, from energy to logic to consciousness to love
>never mind that time is just a dimension
>>74545244
you do not go in hell by not being a christian.
then again, you are probably a protestant, so who knows what fucked up satanist shit doctrines you hear about.
>>74545230
>>74545269
>>74545293
It's only historically viable until it goes against your worldview, ive noticed.
You keep comparing it to Islam, but Islam didn't create the most powerful civilizations the world has ever seen
Being historically illiterate just makes you look stupid. But what more can I expect from an atheist?
>>74543663
I think worship and myth are more for people who can't handle the idea of the known rather than the unknown.
>>74545343
http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-sword.html
>>74545402
Yeh well the reason I say they are historically viable is there is other evidence not just written about these events happening. Jesus is about as real as the Batman
>>74545316
>>74545398
>you are probably a protestant
who me? no i'm not, I don't believe in any deity.
>>74545472
>True followers of Christ must be willing to give up, even to the point of “hating” all that is in our lives, even our own families, if we are to be worthy of Him. In so doing, we find our lives in return for having given them up to Jesus Christ.
how can all these atoms and shit and/or God's intelligence come from nothing though?
>>74545321
How is it not? Just because our minds can't comprehend such a concept doesn't mean the universe hasn't existed forever.
It doesn't make sense to assume the universe had a beginning just because your life and things in your life have a clear beginning and an end.
Our minds are limited and not that good at perceiving reality. When we see something sophisticated we guess that it was made by something. When we look at the universe we guess that it had a beginning.
The universe is not going to have an ending, it might as well not have had a beginning.
>>74545321
>Circles
>>74542086
in a few million years our universe is going to become filled with radiation and eventually collapse only to rebound, look it up
>>74545594
It never came at all it never started. It just always was.
>>74545402
>>it's not evidence if you don't like it
>this much hypocrisy
>>islam =/= not powerful civilisations
>what is Ottoman Empire
Just stop.
>>74545343
Oh wow this one verse in the bible what i dont understand .pffffffffff
here have another one from the brilliant neuro scientist sam harris
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENtlW-LEqu8
muh misquoting the bible
>>74544381
Why wouldn't the singularity be god anyways? No rational Christian claims to know the complexity and essence of God, no doubt god would be much weirder than most Christians give credit for
>>74545659
>time is a circle
>technically I am going to be on 4chan for eternity
could be worse I guess
>>74545321
Time is just a dimension which requires points to exist Without points, what have you?
>nothing
Eternity.
Imagine a sims asking "What existed before bytes?"
>>74545776
Time is not eternal, it has a beginning and an end. It is relative to things such as mass.
>>74541678
Banana-loving fedoras will disagree but philosophers and theologians figured this out centuries ago. God doesn't need a cause, just look up Aseity
>>74545776
There is no you, there is only ME
>>74545674
>few million
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha
>>74545800
I think we are a sim but that still means something to create the sim had to come from somewhere
>>74543930
>muh Palikot
>>74545592
Absolute cult tier.
Did someone say defoo?
Wow, I feel as if we had a thread like this before
>>74545844
is mass eternal?
also if there is a heaven that means it is possible to exist without time?
>>74541678
No idea. Ask a fucking Poo; they seem to have all the answers about the origin of the universe.
>>74545402
Your ad hominem is showing. Don't try to be all erudite 'n shit when you can't follow basic logic.
>>74541678
Universe started simply by the will to exist and fill the void of nothingness.
>>74541678
in what would beings that are dependent on space time would call "The Beginning" God self created and killed himself then something happend and he made that thing everyone calls "creation" the workers he created to work on the inside of creation are called angels yadayadayada...(skip) some beings try to copy angels and get called gods/primordials by lesser beings so titans(the elements) were later born and so the primordial state called chaos evolved into order and it has always been switching back and forth between those methods of existing and fast upward a few cycles till you reach 300.000 bc in this dimension you get the situation of the exile of Adam and Eve etc. till you reach the modern year 2016 that OP is asking that question...
...yes im high on "life" right now feels good man
>>74545510
>Made up shit in a graphic.
>Still made up shit.
>>74545930
Wrong bitch.
>>74544090
>ignoring the numerous Jewish and Roman sources that place Jesus in the areas of his ministry in the first century AD
Daj mi adres to ci wyśle fedore.
>>74545402
>You keep comparing it to Islam, but Islam didn't create the most powerful civilizations the world has ever seen
Neither did Christianity
If god is almighty can he create a rock so heavy that no one can lift even him?
If he can, how is he almighty if he can't lift the rock?
>>74545510
>reliability = number of existing copies
kek
>>74546201
Are we going back the pagan crap?
If it weren't for Christianity, you'd still be beating off with your druids in a cave in a Welsh forest.
>>74543082
If he is eternal, why do human wrote the bible out of their own mind, with little to no understanding of the actual earth+universe, not a god himself ?
;)
Cant he write ?
>>74546346
So that's what the Ancient Greeks and Romans were doing?
>>74546346
>If it weren't for Christianity, you'd still be beating off with your druids in a cave in a Welsh forest.
And? That doesn't prove your claim. Not an argument faggot.
>>74544091
Prove nothing can be proven.
>>74546281
>>74546346
Yeah, early Christianity was definitely the peak of civilization. Whatever would we have done without it?
The universe is a piece of popcorn. All matter existed as one then popped and expanded. Eventually someone will eat the popcorn and crunch the universe into a singularity. The whole process will probably start over again and I'll be typing this again in 30 billion years.
>>74546172
It's already been discussed, you stupid fuck.
All of the sources are at least a generation after his supposed death, and they are either hearsay or forgeries.
A ksiądz ci przedziałek już zrobił, anonku?
>>74543506
Prove there is no flying spagetthi monster.
>>74546430
Christians say God told men exactly what to right and that their preferred version of the Bible is the only one that God did this for
>>74546430
Humans come from God and write silly ideas about God.
>>74543853
this desu
>>74546526
the time repeating itself has to suck for aborted babies and starving kids in Africa right?
>>74546320
There is also distance from the source material / events discussed.
>having 3 sources which disagree with each other vs. having dozens that agree
>not more reliable
>>74543082
Why are christians so scared of not knowing these things? Saying that its true because >muh holy book is an incoherent argument. Fact is nobody knows.
>>74546649
oh snap
>>74546669
>scared
Let's see. If we knew nothing, we'd be adrift like atheists. That is bad, and kills civilization.
>>74546758
>If we knew nothing
This is a combination of a Red herring + strawmen. Reread my post if you are interested in knowing what I meant.
>>74546758
Athiest are diving into the subatomic realm, finding the Higgs-Boson which is supposedly the god particle in that no matter could exist without this fleeting sub atomic particle that we can't even see. Yet we're adrift and killing civilisation.
>>74546281
Can God stick his head so far up his ass that the head comes out his mouth?
...
makes u think...
>>74546758
> If we knew nothing, we'd be adrift like atheists
Cool straw man.
We don't 'know nothing'. We know lots of things. We also freely admit we don't know what we don't know instead of using some bullshit god of the gaps trash to make ourselves feel warm and fuzzy inside
>>74546884
Klein bottles in four dimensions
>>74546656
By that logic the book of mormon is more reliable than the bible itself since it was written right 4 years after Smith's revelation.
>>74541945
first post best post.
But aparrently not every human can accept the fact that we can't (fully) comprehend infinity.
>>74546518
Showing me a cluster of villages from an unknown time period proves what? Any significant accomplishments of your country are a direct result of Christianity.
>>74546545
Większość młodzieży w polsce jest ateistami czy co? Tylko kilka polskich katolików spotkałem na 4chanie.
Who says anything exists? When the universe with all it's matter has dissolved into evenly distributed energy (thermodynamics and shieet), and everything anyone has ever done or felt or thought is gone, it would be as if we had never existed, right?
If nothing came before us and nothing comes after us, couldn't it be reasoned, that nothing exists?
>>74544090
If he wasn't real(and he didn't appearead after his ressurection) why the fuck has Christianity lasted for almost 2000 years?
Your logic is pathetic. Jews wanted people to forget him, arguably romans wanted the same.
>>74547265
It's a map of all the monuments and settlements surrounding stonehenge.
>>74546894
>God of the gaps
Nope. Explanation for existence is not exactly such.
>we know plenty of things
We know plenty of 'how's, not a single 'what' or 'why'
Context is what you lack. Ergo, "why should we even know anything?"
"Why should we stick to the truth?" Plenty of scientists already figured that they don't need to.
>>74546860
>subatomic
Is this a merit for only atheists, now? Modernist mythos is strong with you.
We still don't know what anything that exists actually is. We know how it relates to other existences, which we have categorized / patterned.
>>74547060
No, it simply means we can use it to verify the existence of Smith...
>>74547419
Imagibe their reactions after the crucified him
>OK Schlomo, that's the last we'll hear of him.
>>74545964
>Is mass eternal?
Doubtful.
>also, if there is a heaven that means it is possible to exist without time
Exactly. Although I imagine heaven will simply operate on other rules, as implied by the 'new creation'.
>>74547534
>No, it simply means we can use it to verify the existence of Smith...
Yes you can use it but it's a poor metric.
>>74542086
All those "how's?" That's the unknown. And that is god
>>74546552
You mean, some scholars wrote down some old myths, mixed them with more nonsense and told everyone to believe that shit...and give them all the money/wealth.
>>74547534
>>74546758
>>74546894
>>74547060
>>74545395
>>74545316
>>74544268
> Le ebin fedorafaggotry vs. christfaggotry
There is *nothing* new to be said in these arguments.
> Intellectual degeneracy the thread.
>tfw Agnostic master race
It's the ultimate redpill.
>>74546758
>Roman Empire
>Christianity
>refugee immigration due to war
>decadence
>intolerance of traditional religions
>corruption
>economy dies
>use of foreign armies
>foreigners take over
>dies
>Christianity displaced the polytheistic Roman religion, which viewed the emperor as having a divine status, and also shifted focus away from the glory of the state and onto a sole deity.
T-thanks for getting rid of the god-emperor and getting rid of all those intolerant traditional religions by replacing it with your superior religion. Also, thanks for getting rid of all that national glorification for an intolerant and evil empire built upon the blood and sweat of our oppressed victims. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to prep the new barbarian ruler for his new progressive rule over our empire!
>>74547670
>literally "I don't know, therefore God"
>>74547791
>>74547534
>Which we have categorized/patterned
And we can use these catergories and patterns to create new ones, ones which previously did not exist. You can't use Christianity or belief in god to do that.
Science is the pathway to becoming god
>>74547771
>fedorafaggotry vs. christfaggotry
Nobody wants to hear about your Islam either, Abdul.
>>74547847
Yea but which god ?
ODIN/WODAN ? Or ZEUS ?
If God does exist, than he exists outside the universe and therefore the laws of physics and nature in this universe (such as the concept of time, beginnings, and endings) don't apply to him.
If there is no God, than the Universe existing really doesn't make any sense even from a scientific stand point.
>Muh big bang
Even many modern scientists don't believe this but for now it's the go-to explanation.
Even when you get into string theory and other universes/dimensions it still doesn't account for how the universe that created this one was created.
>>74547419
>hurr durr the age of something means it's true
I hope you're a hindu then faggot.
Also please post YFW you realise judaism was around before jebus and is still around today
>>74547534
>Nope. Explanation for existence is not exactly such.
What are you on about you daft cunt?
>We know plenty of 'how's, not a single 'what' or 'why'
What are you on about you silly cunt?
>Context is what you lack. Ergo, "why should we even know anything?"
What are you on about you silly cunt?
>"Why should we stick to the truth?" Plenty of scientists already figured that they don't need to.
What are you on about you silly cunt?
>>74548012
>If God does exist, than he exists outside the universe
How do you know this? Also, nice special pleading
> than the Universe existing really doesn't make any sense even from a scientific stand point.
The universe makes plenty of sense. We're learning new things about it all the time.
>Even many modern scientists don't believe this but for now it's the go-to explanation.
[citation needed]
>>74541678
Well the alternatives which have equal likelihood of being true. 1. Nothing can exist therefore the universe cannot exist. 2. Something can exist, therefore the universe can exist. Seeing as we're talking right now nr. 2 seems to be true.
>>74547909
>being agnostic on one concept means you are agnostic on all concepts
you tried
>>74548012
>If there is no God, than the Universe existing really doesn't make any sense even from a scientific stand point.
Because of ? There is no link between science and the existance of a so called "god"
>>74547922
>And we can use these catergories and patterns to create new ones, ones which previously did not exist.
When we analyze, we don't create. When we 'create' we only reconfigure. All existed prior.
>>74548145
>he thinks agnosticism/gnosticism and atheism/theism are mutually exclusive
>>74548012
If God exist is outside the realm of the our reality, then he's meaningless to us since he can't affect this world. Why worship or do anything for him? That or he doesn't really exist, if existence is classified as the our universe.
>>74548021
>What are you on about you silly cunt?
Something above your iq.
You're an australian, so I won't be too argumentative. I'll just state that if you lack context to your existence itself at the fundamental level, you can trade any and all values, virtues etc. for more pleasant ones. Then I'll just say that we have yet to define a single point of existence without using another... Ie. we have no fucking idea what anything is, we only know how it reacts to surrounding existence.
When existence becomes arbitrary, all it encompasses becomes as well.
>>74548145
Agnosticism in itself is not a position of belief in a deity. It just a measure of your epistemic conviction in a deity, ie how sure you are of a god.
>>74548446
>You're an australian, so I won't be too argumentative
wow nice rebuttal fuckwit.
Now try actually explaining what you mean.
You have made zero fucking sense and trust me, it's not my comprehension that's at fault.
>>74548446
I find the way how you write is beautiful, but your posts seem so ambiguous.
>>74548530
>it's not my comprehension that's at fault
But it is.
>>74543115
Does God exist in white whores who suck BBC, too?
>>74548666
>if i spit out random drivel that makes no sense, it's clearly the other persons fault
no.
explain what you mean. if you can't make a coherant post, fuck off
>>74548614
Politcal Jargon.
>>74541678
>10 000 years ago lightning
What is this bright light in the sky that makes fire?
MUST BE GOD
>5000 years ago the sun
What is that bright, warm light in the sky for half the day?
MUST BE GOD
>1000 years ago bacteria
Why do people get sick and die for no apparently reason?
MUST BE GOD
>250 years ago, concept of evolution
Where did humans come from?
MUST BE GOD
>Today, abiogenesis and the big bang
How did life start and how did the universe start?
MUST BE GOD
You religious fags have been wrong every time. Just stop.
>>74548614
>being impressed by word salad
yep, you dun goof'd
>>74547193
infinity is not a difficult concept
maybe for a nignog but it's really simply
just imagine a pile of sticks. This pile is magical in that you can take a stick from it throw it into the ocean. Take another stick from the pile and throw it. Take another stick. Keep taking sticks from it and it will still be there.
You don't have to know how many sticks the pile has. All you have to know is that the pile will NEVER run out.
>we can BARELY leave this rock
>we know how the universe was created
>muh big bang :DDD
I'm not a Jebus worshiper but come on let's be real we don't know shit about the Universe
>>74543380
The Old Testament is made by very evil jews(probably the NT too but i haven't read enough of it and also it was too long ago to tell for certain), specifically attempting to slave-bind people. No doubt to capitalize upon it later as priests.
For a farmer in those days, i imagine especially before mass publication of books, something like the bible would be very convincing. It still is actually - unless you've already done your share of thinking & reading. People don't usually read good books anymore though so people are still not very good at seeing through the evil nature of the book(s).
Also, spiritual phenomena /are real/. The only problem is that people misattribute whatever holy moment they have to whatever divinity hanging out in their neighbourhood. *I* think, spiritual phenomena are a result of our consciousness & our imagination and the laws of the universe.
>>74548873
I agree with it, except the spiritual stuff.
What exactly should that be ?
>>74548853
>I'm not a Jebus worshiper but come on let's be real we don't know shit about the Universe
Seems like the equivalent of a leftist saying: "Not all muslims!".
Yea we don't know it all, but we do comprehend parts of it.
>>74548853
That doesn't diminish the fact that science is actually bringing to light understanding of things we previously could not have known about. The realm which a deity could exist shrinks every day.
Just a matter of time.
>>74547950
And only retards with assburgers want to hear the same old ontological argument vs. le richard dawkins shit, that's been a festering cancer on the internet for a good decade at this point.
Seriously. Everyone has heared every sensible argument that's to be made on the topic. Go and discuss this shit on reddit.
>>74549047
This
Modern "spiritual" people are almost as lame as religious fucks that believe holy books.
They use the concept of god out of intellectual laziness because they can't be bothered to 1 - try to explain what happened, or 2 - actually admit to themselves they don't understand it.
>>74549104
The only reason you keep hearing dawkins style rebuttals is because religious dumb dumbs keep spitting out the same, tired, deprecated, flawed arguments
>>74549104
You raise a valid point Jerry, but here is as good a place as any to talk about this.
>>74549104
Wthats wrong with Richard Dawkins ?
>>74541945
>The universe can't also have existed for eternity prior to the big bang
>>74548614
>>Nope. Explanation for existence is not exactly such.
>What are you on about you daft cunt?
Whatever the cause of the entirety of existence is, God is an accurate description. Regardless of whether it is Christian God or some other understanding /misunderstanding.
>>We know plenty of 'how's, not a single 'what' or 'why'
We do not know what 'energy', 'matter', 'consciousness' or 'existence' are, but we know how they behave. We do not know why they are, either.
>>Context is what you lack. Ergo, "why should we even know anything?"
When you do not have a defined 'why' for everything, you can always argue yourself away from anything.
>Life is meaningless
>Therefore I will paint my door yellow
>Therefore I will lie this time and get away with it
etc. Arbitrary, pointless, meaningless, futile. The color scheme of your room is as important as your life if we leave these questions open. Even the approach to truth changes, and this is dangerous without doubt.
"If truth is that life is meaningless, I can create meaning!", ergo, atheists choose fantasy to keep them going 9/10 times.
>>74549201
>>74549218
This shit crops up so often, that hiroshima should make a containment board for this degenerate faggotry.
And mail a fedora or a cross to every moron on there that gets quads.
>>74549225
Dawkins did nuffin wrong.
>>74549265
The Universe defines time and its existence. We'd have to have plenty of data to define anything prior to the 'boot' of this run.
>>74549334
>Whatever the cause of the entirety of existence is, God is an accurate description. Regardless of whether it is Christian God or some other understanding /misunderstanding.
What a fucking copout. And given that we don't know the cause, saying 'hurr gawd did it' is completely false.
So as I said. Nice god of the gaps.
Not even going to bother reading the rest of your bullshit because you're wrong from the word go.
>>74549421
>copout
>god of the gaps
You really fail to grasp anything. As expected of the descendant of plebs.
>>74549516
lol your greentext literally doesn't mean anything.
Do you even understand what a god of the gaps fallacy is?
Fuck me you're daft
>>74549568
Particles don't have the potential to cause consciousness. What does? Something that was there at the beginning.
>>74548495
>I don't know there is a god but I believe it
how can you believe something if you don't think it might be true? isn't that just a guess?
>>74549265
The "thing" in my post was supposed to refer to God and/or the universe.
I'm one of those theists who think God and the universe are more or less the same.
>>74549225
Oh a man who claims to be a scientist who is a biologist never done anything in his life writes the god delusion . . muh dawkins holy science man for atheist but is a biologist
>>74549672
Wow.
>>74549756
And at what point is biology NOT a science ?
You ever tried to google "SCIENCE" ?
>>74549334
>God is an accurate description
A description of what? Your mere fantasy and belief system or of the real world? It certainly describes one of the two, but we don't know about the other one.
Oh look. Another thread where faggots yell at each other about questions which can never be answered.
>>74549756
Have you been drinking, you moron?
Of course biology is a science. And if you don't like it's findings, you can fuck right off.
>>74549980
There is a difference. One side is yelling out of ignorance and the other out of knowledge about this ignorance.
>>74549672
>Particles don't have the potential to cause consciousness
According to whom?
>Something that was there at the beginning.
Where can I read your peer reviewed paper?
>>74549956
God is the fitting description of
>all the actual and the potential, at the beginning and at the end
That's pretty much what 'Jahwe' means translated as well, but whatever floats your boat.
>>74549756
So to write a book you need to "do something" first ? What is it you have to do to be "allowed" to write a book ?
Actualy, the god delusion is a great book, if you read it open-minded and not with the wrath of a christian/muslim/jew.
Your so-called "faith" is so thin and weak, that a slightly rumble in the fundaments of your "house of believes" can cause a collapse.
>>74549980
>questions which can never be answered
never hey? How sure are you of that?
>>74550152
Right. So we know what your bullshit description of the word 'god' means... now actually prove it's the case
>>74550121
>According to whom?
You make the positive claim, you prove it. :^)
Seriously though, the particles can be identical in a person who is alive and braindead. You believe that particles exist because you are conscious (I hope you are, at least), not the other way around. Consciousness is the basis of existence, as it is required.
>>74550238
What does 'particle' mean?
Have you ever had a single thought in your life?
>>74550152
OK, christfag. Then explain why "all the actual and the potential" wants you to offer your daughters up to a mob wanting to rape some guy who visits your house? (See story of sodom and ghomorra in the old testament)
>>74550287
>You make the positive claim, you prove it. :^)
You're so fucking stupid and you don't even know it.
Please point out exactly where I made a claim?
YOU are the one making a claim that god does x, y and z. Prove it or fuck off
>>74550314
You are dodging the question sir.
>>74550314
>What does 'particle' mean?
You're the one using that term so you tell me.
were you dropped on your head as a child you dumb cunt?
>>74550287
>Consciousness is the basis of existence
The other way around. Existence doesn't require beings to perceive it.
>>74549334
>We do not know what 'energy', 'matter', 'consciousness' or 'existence' are
We actually do. Since we interact with these things (and can quantify them), we do have a clue about what they are. But what they 'really' are, is a silly question to ask. Do you know what's 'really' inside this box?
>We do not know why they are
>When you do not have a defined 'why' for everything, you can always argue yourself away from anything.
'Why' something is, is a meaningless statement. Why does the universe exist? because god created it. Why did god create it? Because he wanted to. Why did he want to? Because he felt like it. Why did he feel like it? Because he was bored. Why was he bored? Because he has nothing to do. etc etc.
You'll just run into an infinite regress of 'why?'s that can never be resolved.
>>74550409
One thing leads to another. Why exactly x? I should research it, if possible, but most of these questions are arbitrary and meaningless.
>wants Lot to offer his daughters
But he did not, it only says that Lot did it. Those two men were angels as well, not God.
>>74550424
He has a clear definition for god, or so he assumes. I find it intriguing that they disbelieve something so strongly. I bet it's the simpsons-god or zeus he so disbelieves.
