Hello /pol/,
We know that Islam and Muslims have been villified both here and throughout all or most of the right-wing sphere. When I heard Richard Spencer speaking in a podcast, he dismissed Islam as the only religion incompatible with white men - something like "you can imagine a pagan or Buddhist white nation but not an Islamic one."
I'm certain most of the so-called Alt Right audience truly believes this to be the case, but as a centrist I remain skeptical. We know, for example, that there are white men who converted to Islam, but what about a nation of such men? What is, fundamentally, the cause of the incompatibility?
Most of what I read pointed to this idea: that Islam is "not just a religion, but a cultural and racial identity." Is this convincing enough? Do Christians, Jews, and Buddhists not have associated culture and racial majorities? Is it truly impossible for Islam to be "Europeanized" and severed from its intricate ties with Arab culture?
I looked for support and surprisingly there are white nationalist thinkers that write favorably about Islamic sensibility. Islam, one argues, is the religion of traditionalists. In its current form, it revolts against many of the same aspects of Western culture that the right would like changed. Many of you reading this live in nations where gay marriage and abortion are legal. Where women and minorities have undue influence on society. Where people are only nominally Christian, or wholly atheist as in our universities, and even encourage more separation of religion from the state.
Hitler, I read, wished that Arabs had succeeded in their conquest of Europe because he believed that it would be Islamized Germans that would come to rule Europe. Christianity to him and others who thought like him, was the engine that led them to their cultural and national disintegration.
What do you all think? If Islam was brought to Europe by white men, what reason would there be to not embrace it?
>>74536163
They chose to be honorary sandniggers instead of Europeans and need to be treated as such - expelled from the white man's land and killed if they resist too much.
islam is embraced by niggers and is the dumbest of all religions
>>74536285
I'd rather it not be, please.
>>74536237
Why do you believe that?
>>74536225
What? I think you misunderstood what I meant by European Islam.
>>74536285
>>74536309
>>74536334
>>74536359
Have you ever been worried about someone looking at your computer while you're taking a dump or something and wondering why you have dozens of pictures like this saved?
> If Islam was brought to Europe by white men, what reason would there be to not embrace it?
Because it's a simple filthy sand-nigger religion. We'd be better off with paganism.
Please stop posting this material. It's not welcome or related.
>>74536163
As someone born and raised in the US in a Muslim family, let me say you have no idea what you're talking about. Islam is barbaric and regressive. No sane Christians advocate returning to the practices of Abrahamic Judaism to be closer to Jesus, yet thanks to Saudi Arabia there isn't a single self-proclaimed Muslim who doesn't support setting civilization back 1000 years.
They preach that we should return to the Dark Ages. This is why Islam is incompatible with the West. It rejects progress of any kind. No matter how traditional/conservative you are as a Christian, you don't want to live as an illiterate sandnigger but Muslims do, at least that is what they advocate for.
>>74536163
>European Muslims
>Albanians
>Bosniaks
>European
>implying
Brate pls
Also Hitler mostly liked it because Ottomans were WW1 allies and before decolonization sand niggers weren't snackbaring like now.
>>74536163
Islam guarantees inferiority. There are no Islamic countries that can do anything right and the closest are those that have secularism.
>>74536285
>>74536309
>>74536334
>>74536359
>>74536386
Gore is >>>/b/
>>74536504
Are you speaking from a place of emotion or logical dislike for the religion? I'm curious why you think it's any better or worse than Christianity based on the texts alone, cultural identity aside.
>>74536379
>What? I think you misunderstood what I meant by European Islam.
Because European Islam is an oxymoron.
As you said, "Most of what I read pointed to this idea: that Islam is "not just a religion, but a cultural and racial identity."" - it is a cultural and racial identity. It's an identity of Arab culture and Arab race, not of white culture and white race.
We're not Arabs - we're obviously better than them. And whites debasing themselves by choosing that cultural and racial Identity via conversion to Islam stop being white, and if they're not white they're not European and since Europe is the homeland of whites, they have to go - either voluntarily (as they should, because why wouldn't they live in their prophets homeland?) or by force, under the threat of death if necessary.
>>74536681
>I'm curious why you think it's any better or worse than Christianity based on the texts alone
Polygamy, you stupid fuck.
>>74536163
Shillslam
It's too anti-science. The only thing islamic nations do is make the world worse for everybody.
>>74536163
Please stop reminding them about islam. Let the word 'islam' just slowly disappear from western society. If you're a muslim, please hide your identity. Nothing makes me anxious more than being asked about my religion. I don't want people to change just because i tell them my religion. I'm a muslim and i hide. You should too. There's no reason to be a muslim and confident about it. I'm not confident about being muslim. Please stop making islam thread. Please.
>>74536651
fuck off you stupid fucking mod
thanks for fucking up another thread you fucking piece of shit
i hope you choke to death on your hotpocket
>>74536728
He's okay, 5.56 doesn't kill
>>74536807
What a fucking Munafiq. I make sure every white person I meet learns how to say Khaled properly
>>74536681
It has nothing to do with text and everything to do with the current expectations within the faith you dumb cunt. Islam calls for civilization to turn its back on all the advances it has made since the Prophet's time. This is a relatively recent phenomenon but it is now universal and has tainted the faith to its core.
It is diametrically opposed to modernity.
TIME FOR DEAD PALISTINIANS!
Holy shit.
Israel really toasted this one.
>>74536379
There's nothing intellectual in Islam? Do you know why your golden age ended?
Because your theology advanced. Your idiotic and barbarous religion is incompatible with a materialistic understanding of the natural world - your people don't contribute to science because they literally believe Allah is the prime mover of all things.
In the mind of a devout Muslim, if he were to separate my head from my offensive body - I do not die due massive bleeding. I do not die because my brain cannot get oxygen. I die because Allah willed it. The subtle differences in theology between Islam and every other religion become obvious when you view the followers, in aggregate.
Make no mistake, your religion is the worst of all - its obvious, and you know its true. The only reason Islam still exists is that it demands its followers to breed rapaciously, expand outwards, and conquer the lands of unbelievers. It is a virus of the human mind. You do not contribute art, beauty, science, or anything to the world - you don't conquer by winning arguments or converting the thoughtful. You're a negative religion.
Christianity, Judaism, Sikhs, Buddhists - we all do positive work on Earth. Muslims, however... we'd be better off without you.
The time will come, soon, for you all to convert or die, because you will no longer have a place in modern society. We do not need you and our patience and charity will wear thin.
>>74536575
I'm not sure why you say that as I did not judge Islam in my post regarding the fundamentalism of Saudi Arabia. Even in its regressive mentality, there is something salvageable: a sort of glorification of the pastoral and ancestral ways before modernization destroyed them and their associated structures in society. Am I advocating going back to times before toilets? Not really, but there is, I think, an undeniably leftist tilt to technological progress that should or could be better controlled.
>>74536890
Just so you know they secretly kind of want to get away from you. Change your name to something western. Don't wear islamic dresses. Pray secretly. Try not saying masha Allah or Subhanallah everytime you're impressed or shocked.
Islam is a relgion of pussies they bitch and cry about drawings and kill everyone.
The freedoms that we enjoy that our ancestors had died for will be gone in an islamic state
>>74537158
Don't worry, islam will never be powerful in western states. They'll keep their religion to themselves.
>>74536952
That picture is not from fucking Afghanistan 1967.
Afghanistan has always been a shit hole. Even in Roman times.
>>74536699
Thanks for the calm response.
I understand the connection to Arab culture and race. The other poster is Muslim and states that he and others like him reject the Arab influence over Islam - but I'm sure few would go so far as to entirely reject Islam. He has not himself based on his response.
Why do you believe Islam's relationship to Saudi Arabia cannot be overcome? Isn't there something to be gained by a European interpretation of Islam that may supplant the "meekness and flabbiness" of Christianity, as Hitler speculated?
>>74537065
Based Canadian
>>74536163
Go away sand nigger
>>74537086
It doesn't matter what you think or what you're advocating. I'm stating the hegemony has decided is Islam. You can have your pluralist, pansexual anarcho-capitalist interpretation, it will be drowned out by 1000 Wahhabi Imams who are training ISIS cells because your dumb ass accepted them as pious sheperds.
>>74537232
They made a good go of it in Southern Europe until the reconquista.
>>74536755
Is that really it or is this a joke?
>>74536786
>Shill
I'm sharing my musing with others, that's all. Someone might share something interesting regarding this topic.
>>74536952
>diametrically opposed to modernity
Sounds like something an SJW would say. Not trying to insult you, but think about the implication of that statement.
>>74536163
Why do you want Islam to have any part in Western countries? Its the worlds most shitty Agenda, its a backwards ideology. Things might be shitty today but that doesnt mean it cant get a whole lot shittier and it has been in most times throughout history.
>>74537581
Well it's because they let them. If you don't let them, they won't be strong at all, not even close.
>>74537246
Of course the vast majority of the country is a rural backwoods, but before Saudi Oil Money & Communism every urban setting in every nation has been exposed to and embraced Western culture.
>>74537065
This. I can't wait for the world to wake up, join forces, and eradicate all of the Muzz rats once and for all. Literally Earth's cancer.
>>74537641
Because he is a fucking Muslim shill. There are tons of them on this board.
>>74537587
I'm not talking about new age garbage about Cultural Marxism. I'm talking about the Amish and Orthodox Jewish communities that are filled with incest, child molestation, drug abuse, and live by crazy archaic customs. That is what Islam today is violently, actively pushing for. That is what every person who has escaped ISIS controlled territories has described.
>>74537587
>Is that really it or is this a joke?
Is that not enough of a reason? I mean, you can take offense on the child fucking and constant war too if you want, but those are just consequences of a society that has an unfair distribution of women, making a huge chunk of males redundant.
Redundant males don't participate in building or upholding society. Why did you think every muslim country is either at war or horribly inbred?
>>74537900
>incest
>child molestation
This bugs me a lot. In my very islam environment, those two recognised as very sinful. Redpill me on how you think that way pls.
>>74536163
So are you a cuck or just a shill?
>>74537065
>your
Oh boy, I'm sure to read something level headed.
>no contributions to science
>golden age
The first is factually incorrect.
The second is the kind of balance I'm talking about. It shows us that Islam and a "modern" society are indeed possible which refutes your later point.
Of course, there are going to be disagreements with how ISIS believes Islam should be practiced, and what Saudis believe, and what my hypothetical Westerners believe. The point is more to illustrate the idea that
a) Islam is not as incompatible with Europe as people think
b) Most of the reason for that belief is due to Arab influence on the religion
c) The narrative on Islam may be manufactured to generate more opposition than is realistically warranted
>>74537246
It is you stupid amerilard.
>>74538045
>lives in Singaporean dictatorship
>thinks he can extrapolate his experience under said dictatorship on the entirety of Islam
Your country is the only successful muslim country because they beat you half to death for chewing gum. Sadly, that's not the case in most other muslim countries and it's unlikely that it can be implemented.
MUSLIMS ARE THE MOST INBRED GROUP OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD _ BY FAR
A rough estimate shows that close to half of all Muslims in the world are inbred: In Pakistan, 70 percent of all marriages are between first cousins (so-called "consanguinity") and in Turkey the amount is between 25-30 percent.[11]
Statistical research on Arabic countries shows that up to 34 percent of all marriages in Algiers are consanguine (blood related), 46 percent in Bahrain, 33 percent in Egypt, 80 percent in Nubia (southern area in Egypt), 60 percent in Iraq, 64 percent in Jordan, 64 percent in Kuwait, 42 percent in Lebanon, 48 percent in Libya, 47 percent in Mauritania, 54 percent in Qatar, 67 percent in Saudi Arabia, 63 percent in Sudan, 40 percent in Syria, 39 percent in Tunisia, 54 percent in the United Arabic Emirates and 45 percent in Yemen.[12][13]
>>74538124
Stop trying, my friend, stop bumping this thread up. Let's just be quiet about being muslim. Let's just observe. These people won't listen to you once you identify yourself as a muslim. They won't take you seriously. We need to make people forget about islam.
>>74538207
INBREEDING IS EXPLICITLY ENCOURAGED IN THE QURAN
Due to the actions of Prophet Muhammad and the Rightly-Guided Caliphs, marriage between cousins is explicitly allowed and even encouraged in Islam. The Qur'an itself does not discourage or forbid this practice in any way. In fact it implicitly allows it, as seen in chapter 4 verse 23:
Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck), foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;-
>>74538124
They made some algebra like 1,000 years ago. They haven't contributed anything since then. The only scientific advances coming from the Middle East are from Israel. No, Islam is not compatible with free societies. It's less a religion and more a totalitarian political ideology designed at it's core for conquest and control. Fuck Muslims and fuck you.
>>74536163
>If Islam was brought to Europe by white men, what reason would there be to not embrace it?
Because I'm fucking human, not animal following one of the most primitive doctrines of current time. Islam has NO place in Europe except on our shitlist, period, if you don't like it then move out.
>>74538124
You are such an islamocuck...
>>74538176
>singapore
>muslim country
Oh and btw i vpn'd, so not singaporean and you'll never know what my country is.
>>74538207
>>74538286
This also explains their low IQs and aggressive behavior.
>>74538272
>These people won't listen to you once you identify yourself as a muslim. They won't take you seriously.
Guess why mr. Allahu Akbar
>>74538272
Good thing that most muslims are shitskins, and that's something that'll never be forgotten and can't be overlooked.
>>74536681
>I'm curious why you think it's any better or worse than Christianity based on the texts alon
Even the Islamic texts are a disgusting read - mentioning raping captured women in front of their husbands, beheading your enemies, cutting off their fingers and hands. In comparison, we have Christianity: Christ healing the servant of the soldier who came to capture him and lead him to his death, when his apostle cuts his ear in anger. Not killing him, destroying his property, and raping his captured wife, but restoring his servant.
The difference in tone and message is like day and night, and Islam's message and tone is abhorrent. Is anyone really surprised at the existence of the Islamic State? The only surprise is that they ignore the parts of the Quran and its related texts which are intended to restrict such abhorrent violence only to people not "of the book", e.g. Hindus. In other words, the only real surprise is that instead of being inhuman to only certain groups of people, they're inhuman to every group that isn't their own cult. That's shocking.
>inb4 "but muh Old Testament"
Find examples to even show that those primitive, warlike rules were being followed even in the time of Jesus, let alone today. The rules of war in Ancient Israel are not the rules of God - that was made obvious by Christ. Quite besides this, they are clearly not followed to the letter today, whereas Islam is still an incredibly primitive religion.
>>74538397
Good thing i'm not a shitskin.
>>74536163
>European Islam
awww hell no nigger. European Islam is as real as American Anorexia
>>74538045
First Singapore is relatively isolated from Wahhabism but you need to be vigilant. >http://www.asiasentinel.com/society/wahhabism-in-southeast-asia/
In cultures that are repressive of self expression and prioritize secrecy over individualism, there is this weird phenomenon that it is preferred that the breaking of taboos be ignored and hidden than acknowledged and addressed. The violation reflects on the community as a whole, not just the individual perpetrator. Usually the perpetrator is from a place of authority which allowed them to break the taboo in the first place, so they are never called out.
>>74538124
HAHA THIS FUCKING DUMB MUSLIM CAN'T EVEN READ
YOUR GOLDEN AGE ENDED BECAUSE YOU FIGURED OUT YOUR BOOK
DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
YOUR 13TH CENTURY THEOLOGIAN, AL GHAZALI, FIGURED OUT THAT MATHEMATICS AND ARISTOTELIANISM WERE INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE QURAN
YOU'VE BEEN FUCKED EVER SINCE, MORON
>>74538465
There'll always be some rats in the hiding but once that "pbuh" and "inshallah" and "allah akbar" drops, we'll know. And it inevitably does.
Catholicism gave us brilliant things like the Summa Theologica.
Crude Islamic 'philosophy' on how often you should rape a wife before conception is not in the same league.
White islamists are pseudointellectual contrarian faggots. Blow yourself up, bitch.
>>74536163
>When I heard Richard Spencer speaking in a podcast, he dismissed Islam as the only religion incompatible with white men - something like "you can imagine a pagan or Buddhist white nation but not an Islamic one."
But you can't imagine a Buddhist white nation. Buddhism has its roots in the Indus River civilization. It could never be the overriding narrative of a European civilization, because it's simply not from there.
Europe should be pagan, and pagan alone. Christianity has never really been at home in Europe, and has always remained more an ideology of the ruling elites. This is why presenting Christian works of art and literature gives you a very biased view of Europe, because only the elites of Europe had proper access to the means of producing and reading/interpreting works of art and literature. Christianity back then was really what free market globalism is today, the ideology of the elites that the masses only nominally believe in. Paganism doesn't have this problem, because paganism emerged from Europe bottom-up. It was developed over millenia, by Europeans themselves, to come to terms with the specific experiences they had. That's why Roman-Greco and Germanic paganism are still known to this day, because they are religious movements that were developed organically. They weren't imposed onto the masses top-down, which Christianity was, which is one of the main reasons why it's currently dying out. It simply doesn't belong in Europe and can only be sustained within Europe artificially, by brainwashing kids and by penalizing anyone who doesn't subscribe to it
>>74538118
I'm someone that can entertain an idea without necessarily believing in it. Please get an education for the sake of tge race's future that you care so much about if not for yourself.
>>74537641
I don't want anything. My question toward you is why you don't want it. I'm trying to gauge whether you have a reasoned response for it or if it's an emotional reaction to outsiders. If you will notice, I specifically mention that Western interpretation of the Quran - that is to say one retranslated away from Arabia - is not only possible but may be a better fit for the traditionalists of the West. It's core values are, according to Hitler and some other right wing thinkers, more masculine and compatible with European right wing philosophy than Christianity.
Even in ISIS, despite its barbarism and malignance, there is something to be learned about violent reaction toward what one perceives as cultural decline. Most of those men in ISIS will suicide bomb themselves readily for their god, a trait not shared by today's nominal white Christians and modern man passivity toward the powers that will eventually destroy him.
As I said, I'm just trying to learn, ultimately. It's a provacative thought, that's all.
>>74538704
I'll try my best to not say it. I don't want to lose all the good life, the good friends, the good bandmates, and all that stuffs. Assuming that when i move to the US i'll have friends and band for the first time in my life.
>>74538124
PS THAT'S NOT WHAT REFUTE MEANS, FLUNKY - STOP ROLE PLAYING AS A CLEVER TERRORIST YOU INSINCERE, FAITHLESS FAGGOT
GO TO A RENAISSANCE FAIRE IF YOU WANT TO LARP YOU GODDAMN FANTASIST
>>74536163
>>74537673
From what I've read it wasn't so much that they "let them", so much as the local Muzzie commanders decided to take advantage of a period of political division in what is now Spain.
Arguably the same thing is happening now with the cultural civil war happening in the west.
So the takeaway is then: as long as European countries never show any vulnerability toward Muslims, we'll be safe, is that right?
If only all muslims kept their faith a personal thing, as you claim to.
>>74539014
I'm sure many do. I do. The OP does.
Pictured, the losers who pretend to seriously believe that Muhammed is divine and Allah is real and that there's truth in the Quran that must be the work of the creator of the universe
Not working OP. Your religion is dumb and uninspiring. Only losers convert to the weakest religion
>>74536163
European Islam would only work if Hitler had won
>>74539202
>seriously believe that Muhammed is divine
That's the weirdest part of Islam hands down
>>74536163
islam and paganism were both the same fucking thing back thing ruthless violent crazy people, that have nothing they kill their own people. You may be nice but on the inside your a devil worshipper, but i have not right too judge you, your a peron thin and through but remember lying about violent acts is not a good thing. Kill someone you may end up in hell or heaven, its all apart jesuses judgement.
Weak white boys in this thread who are playing dressup with Islam.
You faggots are definitely mocked behind your backs by your 'fellow muslims'. Why not just put on a fedora, dork?
>>74539161
Good on you both then. However it is clear from experience that Muslims en masse are not a safe or reliable neighbour. That's a shame for both of us.
>>74538429
Hello, thanks for the response.
A fair enough assessment at face value. I admit I have not read either the Bible or the Quran in their entirety, but I will soon.
I have to ask, though, whether you believe in the restoration of the servant on some higher principle than religion, or whether you believe that to be right and good because that is the Christian way?
In the Crusades, Christian knights would pillage and rape in that method you described as being Islamically canon behavior for the enemy. And truly, why should they have not done so? In war, which you say yourself is the Quran's brutality most evident, it is one's goal to reduce the capacity of the enemy to fight, often accomplished by the kind of psychological and physical atrocities you find in Islam.
Some estimates say that 2 million German women were mass raped by the Soviets. These men were not Islamic, but acted in what you probably would call "typical Islamist fashion" had they been Islamic. When the reality of the horrors of war are realized, the guidance or approval of any kind of religious doctrine is totally lost. I see in your excerpt a realistic description of war and not any kind of implicit or explicit approval of the behavior but I would have to read it in context to be sure.
>>74538973
Why don't you just drop Islam? You're more likely to be killed by someone that doesn't want fucking moslems in their country than by a moslem for apostasy the way things are going.
>>74539267
>a kike popsicle worshipper appears
Stay on topic.
Walid Shoebat Exposes Lies of Islam Allah is not God but Satan the deciever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zhp7Qaj5NSU
Documentary: Sword and the Crescent (Full)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk_VwZxN9bA
>Along with detailing new groundbreaking research on the uninspired origins of Koran stories and the corruption of early Koran manuscripts, this film also covers: offensive warfare, Muhammad's immorality and ruthlessness, errors of the Koran, Muhammad and the Bible, absurd Islamic teachings, and Muhammad's demon possession.
Know Your Enemy (Part 27 - Allah)
http://youtu.be/x_s5By7s8z0
Know Your Enemy (Part 28 - The Kabah)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fodMC9oTy7Q
Proving Allah is the goddess Isis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VPO47DeoPQ
It's always the disturbed losers who do this, honestly - Chad doesn't convert to Islam. Autistic failures, on the other hand... do you own a kataka? Pardon me, scimitar? LOL.
You give yourselves away. Real Muslims don't try to manufacture an intellectual framework for Islam, mostly because the Quran is not a philosophical book - and they have ACTUAL LITERAL FAITH (because they're inbred - consanguinity is the norm in Islam)
You two are just faithless roleplayers. You like the image of being spiritual, independent, or contrarian - you don't actually give a shit about Islam. You're obviously just shallow faggots with an insincere belief system. Find a new hobby that you have an honest interest in
This thread is hilarious btw. You've made Islam look even more pathetic by failing to meme or even argue minor points. The christian posters have namedropped more Muslims than you, lol.
Do you actually grow shitty looking beards?
>>74537063
Shouldn't they be preserving the decency of that poor child, rather than waving it around?
>>74538886
Typical Muslim, everything is just Israel/the Zionists. Look in the mirror pig fucker, not everything is a Zionist conspiracy to make you look bad. You're shit and your religion is shit.
>>74536163
Islam is just a more regressive form of Christianity. Why not just convert to some Christian denomination and take it seriously?
Islam is like a more aggressive version of Judaism.
>>74539781
wot
>>74538913
Interesting thought. Thanks.
Are you sure the common white European would be more comfortable with the paganism of the old world than the Christianity of more recent memory? How would you reintroduce paganism to Europe?
>>74539671
Seriously lol, you guys are dumb as rocks.
Christians or soviets doing bad things doesn't change the fact that Allah is 100% not actually real.
Your dumb, teenaged moral equivalency argument will not work on anyone over 17
>>74539728
I can't, i believe in islam and it makes sense to me. But don't worry, i'll hide it. My religious identity doesn't look good when paired with the kind of life i want to live after watching american films
>>74539671
This entire post sounds like a chubby white 15 year old wrote it while vaping and furiously chinstroking.
I don't think it's just the Bible and Quran you haven't read, dumbass - be honest, you don't read at all
>>74539671
I would certainly argue that both Islam and Judaism have very dark, arguably evil passages. Describing how to do war against your enemies is barbaric in both. They are essentially the same texts when it comes to this topic: both prescribe destroying the enemy entirely where you can, taking women and children captive, etc.. Arguably Islam is more merciful as it offers conversion instead of death. But your question wasn't comparing Islam and early Judaism (which is arguably, again, in many ways incomparable with modern Judaism) but rather Islam and Christianity.
My point is that these prescriptions of how to destroy your enemies are entirely absent in Christian texts. How people act when they act AGAINST the religious text is not a reflection on the religion, it is a reflection of the individual's ability to sin. When a Christian man goes to war and rapes a woman, he is sinning. When a Muslim goes to war, captures a married woman as a sex slave and rapes her, he is not sinning so long as he gives her a month to mourn her husband who the Muslim has killed.
What Crusaders did, which I certainly don't dispute, is irrelevant to the argument: all people have the capacity to sin, and sin horribly, which is of course self-evident. If a religion is encouraging sin, however, then to my mind, it's disqualified itself as a religion and instead can be considered a man-made justification of a group's own interests at best, a Satanic influence in the world at worst.
Islam is incompatible with the white man's ways.
This can be said at every national level, but I'll focus on England.
Since the Saxons there has been a concept of a law that is independent of any single ruler, either divine or mortal. This is a concept that is today represented in the term "law of the land."
In Islam the law comes from the divine, and is therefore not of the land, which goes against the culture and ways of the English since their dawn.
Even the French-speaking Normans resurrected more ancient Saxon ways in Magna Carta where they said that no punishment can be issued without first being allowed to defend themselves and judged by their peers.
You can not have such a system when every law is based on divine will.
>>74540220
Will you raise your kids as moslems?
>>74540161
You misunderstood. I wasn't trying to prove Allah is real. I'm saying that nothing in Christian or Muslim texts can stop people from doing terrible things in war. Islam, assuming your (undoubtedly biased) form of it is correct, actually provides a more realistic and masculine expression of war than the Bible. Love thy enemy? It's the most fairy tale line you can read. Kill him and take his woman? This is the war that men know.
>>74540411
He'll raise his kids according to a book he hasn't read but knows he understands
Just kidding, he won't reproduce
>>74536807
Then there is no reason to even be Muslim.
>>74540220
Is it compulsory to be Muslim in Singapore? I mean, is there any type of punishment or extra tax or something like that if you aren't one?
>>74540411
Yes but they'll be just like me. I'll explain to them the interpretation of quran that i want them to believe. Believe me they'll be even more peaceful than me. But i don't wanna have kids anyway i don't wanna even get married. The thought of marriage is nauseating to me.
>>74537065
your a dorable
>>74540506
For me, there is. Because i believe in islam and it makes sense to me. Don't ask me how, you will always try to ignore it anyway.
>>74540525
I'm not in singapore i'm a vpn faget
>>74536163
>We
As if the majority on this board are religious.
>>74536163
Maybe the fact we've spent the last 200 years moving away from despotism especially of the religious variety and Islam is a step 1400 years backward. What a stupid question and a dumb person you are
>>74540496
Yes, I'm sure you have read all books, evident by your reasonable and eloquent responses so far. You missed the point of my examples as well. It was not a "christians do bad things too" argument.
Or yeah maybe i should move to america before trump gets elected. For the dream life and dream social life that i always daydreamed about.
>>74536163
Islam in its current form suffers from a number problems which make it "compatible" with the West but specifically Western Europe.
First and foremost of these problems is sharia and the insistence on political Islam. When the 2011 Arab Spring riots broke out across Northern Africa and the Middle East, there was a lot of hope in the West that Muslims would clamor for political reform and liberalization. While this may have initially been what was protested, quickly most states experiencing Arab Spring upheaval sought out a solution through Islam. Thus you see the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, ISIS and Jahbat al-Nusra in Syria, AQAP in Yemen, etc...
The point being, that much of the Middle East had the opportunity to embrace Western style reforms and instead chose religious theocratic hybrid states. Such a state is incompatible with what the Western world thinks of when they hear "Democracy." Inherent in all Western nations is a distinct separation of Church and State. Throughout the Islamic world, no such distinction exists and in fact, many Muslims see secularism as part of the corruption in their society.
The issue with regard to Western Europe is the young men and women immigrating from the Middle East and beyond bring with them these skeptical views on secular democracy, a deep distrust of the West, and traditional values that they want applied in the public sphere. Such an application of sharia to public affairs runs completely counter to Western Democracy. That is the crux of the issue, not to mention the cultural differences and the strain of assimilation vs. keeping their cultural roots.
>>74540477
>I'm saying that nothing in Christian or Muslim texts can stop people from doing terrible things in war.
The difference between Christianity and Islam as far as war is concerned is that the latter actively encourages barbaric behavior. You even admit this yourself here:
>Love thy enemy? It's the most fairy tale line you can read. Kill him and take his woman? This is the war that men know.
Bullshit. It's the war that barbaric Slavs and other subhumans (ex. Arabs) know. Even Hitler's Germany didn't go on a rape frenzy when they took over other nations.
>>74537065
One day friend. We will eradicate all the undesirables. And that day draws closer with every new sunrise.
Soon the sun will rise red, and we will unite and rid the world of its plague.
Even in a consumer based society elwith the 1%, we can still maintain the rich folks 'richness' while providing a better life for the 99%, the workers.
If we were to exterminate all the niggers and Arabs (aka all the Muslims), we wouldn't need a defense budget like we currently have. We wouldn't need all this wasted money on foreign aid.
We wouldn't need to live in fear. We would be a world full of countries with the same goals.
>>74540477
No you misunderstood - Allah's not real.
Saying that 'Christians have done bad things in wars too' is an equivalency argument. It's not novel or useful argumentation. This is how I know you're underaged or simply not smart enough to post here.
If you chose your religion because of some cringey shit like 'masculine expression of war' holy fucking LOL - you're just a fantasist.
A real Muslim actually believes that Islam is 100% real, you moron - you've just picked it as an identity that you think will be cool - you're just some dumb teenager roleplaying as a Muslim making facile arguments on an imageboard, we don't take you seriously
you're both too young or retarded to post here, get out, this dumb thread and its 15 year old whiteboy islamophilosophers is the dumbest thing in the catalog
t. Superior Canadian Calvinist (Who's actually been to war you fat teenaged faggot)
>>74540477
>Love thy enemy? It's the most fairy tale line you can read. Kill him and take his woman? This is the war that men know.
Let's look back to the original point then: is Islam compatible with Europe? Even when we consider this, independent of morality or whatever other concerns that people have with the text, the answer is no.
The European, pagan experience of war is more about defending your land from invaders. The Islamic experience of war is aggressive and intends on capturing enemies in order to expand your territory and population. These two views are completely incompatible. A third view, that of European Christianity, is also defensive. The Crusades weren't about taking over the Middle East, or at least not ideologically - they were about defending the Christians in that area and ensuring that a safe route for pilgrimages was open. In reality there may have been different motivations, but that's the ideological motivation behind it.
>>74540874
Fuck you.
Fuck your Nazism
Fuck your socialism
Fuck your eugenics
We will never have the same goals as you even if we are 'the same race.' There will always be divides that need to be overcome.
>We know that Islam and Muslims have been villified both here and throughout all or most of the right-wing sphere.
lol
Muslims do a fine job of vilifying themselves, no one needs to embellish anything like you leftist cucks keep trying to imply is going on.
Enjoy your inevitable sharia law though, you'll have no one to blame but yourself when you can't get drunk with your boyfriend and suck his dick and brag about it publicly.
>>74540577
Kids are even less likely to be able to keep that pbuh inshallah allahu akbar shit to themselves.
Which is great, because that way we'll find the hiding rat.
>>74536163
No, this is not negotiable. End your life.
>>74541074
I'll never have kids anyway. Responsibilities scare me and i hate women.
>>74541045
>Fuck your Nazism
I find it funny how white cucks believe "DAH NAZIS" were so evil when modern day Islamic nations like Saudi Arabia, UAE, Iran, etc are far more repressive. And yet, cucks like you defend them and their insane religion.
The Nazis never went on a rape frenzy like Arabs do when they took over other nations. Even the whole Holocaust was blown out of proportion because the majority of inmates died due to starvation and disease. Even ethnic German civilians were dying en-mass during the late stages of the war.
>>74541045
You're part of the plague that the world has to be rid of :^)
>>74541205
Look at this faggot
>>74540803
Thank you
>>74540743
I don't read your posts or think about your 'points', they're stupid and not points.
also you don't have to memorize the Quran - you can look at how poor, stupid, ugly and pathetic muslims are to realize that Islam is definitely not true.
No true god would create an entire universe just to make his only followers inbred, inferior brown peasants
you're not even aware of how dumb you are, theologically.
Pic related. It's Spinoza's Ethics - an axiomatic formal logic proof of divinity. You can't compete: Muslims are pathetic inbreds who will never see the face of god. Your philosophy literally was developed by 88 IQ negroids. Your books argue about dowries, not metaphysics.
>>74541255
Until one day when the revolution sweeps you away too. That's the thing about revolutions, they never cease to find enemies.
>>74536163
>Hitler, I read, wished that Arabs had succeeded in their conquest of Europe
Source?
And saying that you read it on a thousand earlier /pol threads doesn't count.
>>74536163
fuck off evil pill
>>74541306
Fuck you that pic made me hard as a rock.
>>74541045
Lol ok
Not a Nazi buddy.
Our socialism works, as stupid as Sanders has made socialism sound, Germany is the most powerful nation in Europe. Our economy is fucking tits. Our healthcare is tits. Our shit is together.
What's wrong with eugenics? Is it wrong to not want to breed with someone because they have more diseases than can count, born without an immune system, carry antibiotic strains of deadly diseases or inbred as fuck genes?
Do you really believe genes don't matter?
My evidence of the inferiority of Islam IS the inferiority of Islam. It's self-evident that Muslims are low IQ plebeians - a fact by itself that disproves the divinity of Muhammed or the existence of Allah.
t. Genetically Superior Man born in a Better Country
>>74540320
Whether they have sinned or not means little, that's what I was trying to get at. Did those Crusaders sin? Undoubtedly. Why? Did they not know that Jesus advocated love and mercy? Of course they did, but they did it anyway.
What is left of the difference between Islam and Christianity is that tge adherents of one did so without religious guilt and the others might feel religious guilt.
My main question there is why we should instill this religious guilt upon them when some completely outer force compels them to commit these sins almost unavoidably. Is it not a sin to firebomb civilians? Of course, but the generals have deemed it necessary to win the war. The hierarchy of military time and again proves it is more urgent and compulsive than whatever twinge of conscience people may have. Unless we realize a world free of war completely, the Christian method is unrealistic. The Islamic method, brutal as it may be, at least serves some purpose in the reality of the circumstances.
And my other question, you know, was what the higher power was to gauge the sin of these actions. Ultimately, the metric is a philosophical one outside of religion and therefore any religion can be made to comply with the code by means of omission or emphasis.
>>74536163
The same reason why no one supports desert death cults.
The only religion fit for whites were discovered by whites.
Christians, muslims and jews are desert niggers.
>>74541484
Jesus Christ I can type on my phone. I hope you understood what I was trying to type.
>>74541407
>That's the thing about revolutions, they never cease to find enemies.
Because there'll always be traitors and degenerates. Since I'm neither, I don't have to fear the sweeping.
It all depends on the set-up.
>>74541234
The Nazis weren't "repressive" per se. And who's saying I'm defending Islam? I'm critiquing the guy wanting a race war to start so we can get a clean slate where everyone is happy because we're all the same.
News Flash Faggots: everyone is unique and different. People will find differences between each other to separate into groups over regardless and if they don't, they'll just make shit up. It's human nature.
The Nazis intentionally starved their POWs to death and kept the trains running to the death camps when those trains could have been used to resupply troops. They actively genocide'd which the Muslims haven't yet apparently decided to do.
>>74541609
Can't .. Fucking autocorrect and my wurstfingers
>>74541574
Did the Crusaders sin? *farts*
Undoubtedly...
(you are so cringey and autistic, for real)
>>74541614
I suggest staying in the shadows then because when you live in the real world and make enemies, those people tend to seek you out for culling when shit hits the fan.
>>74541614
Better make sure that you don't accidentally not praise the dictator loud enough one time
>>74541625
Muslims have killed more people than Nazis ever did..
And I don't want a race war, just like Hitler, I just want them to stay where they belong. If they won't leave/stay away - then, genocide them all.
And we have differences, but we don't go on rapesprees or blow something up every other week.
>>74540525
Malaysia is the majority Muslim country, Singapore is mostly chinese
Islam is a globalist religion that abandons the idea of nations, states or fatherland and has a strong arabo-centric elements, the muslims from Morocco to China all use the arabic language.
It is incompatible with the west because western communities are heavily ethnocentric in their behavior, culture and language.
>>74541574
If you can just reduce all discussion of religion to, "Well, none of it matters anyway, it's not real so the only objective quality is how good/bad it makes the individual feel," what's the point of thinking about it in the first place?
Even if you do take that point of view, that just brings us back to the original verdict here: Islam is a cancer incompatible with the modern world, not just Europe, because it empowers barbarians and encourages disgusting acts of violence and brutality.
>>74536163
>Thoughts on European Islam
It will be purged.
>>74541695
The thing we're talking about at the moment is the culling of our enemies. There are no zombies, they can't come after you when they're dead.
>>74541625
There were no death camps
>>74541790
What /pol/ doesn't realise is that you need to attack Islam on a religious basis, not "oh, democracy/human rights/gender equality/etc." or what you say won't work
>>74541484
A. Just because a system works in Germany doesn't mean it will work in the US
B. Our economy is most stable than yours (despite Obama's meddling) because we aren't sitting on the powder keg that is the Eurozone
Not wanting to breed with someone for one reason or another is fine. But actively killing/sterilizing parts of the population you deem unfit is morally wrong. Genes matter, but the value of a person's life is self-evident and not based on their genetic makeup.
>>74536163
They are not us. Kill it with fire and extreme prejudice. At least I will know my ancestors are smiling at mewhen I die. I will not let invaders take the lands of my forefathers without a fight. The weakness of this society bothers me.
>>74541725
Why do you act as if that's such a hard thing?
>>74541625
>They actively genocide'd which the Muslims haven't yet apparently decided to do.
> Muslims haven't yet apparently decided to do.
You're fucking joking, right? Muslims genocide each other and Kurds all of the fucking time. Our entire justification for both Gulf Wars, Libya, and Syria was due to shitloads of genocides.
>he Nazis intentionally starved their POWs to death and kept the trains running to the death camps when those trains could have been used to resupply troops.
PROOFS?
>>74541574
> Agreed, good thing Islam allows for fucking 6 year olds - those Christians are so unrealistic.
Faggot - you know you actually have to have a literal, demonstrable belief in the prophet, right? Do you understand faith at all?
Your post just said Islam is better, BECAUSE, and this is exactly what you meant - "people are going to die anyway, but Islam is more 'realistic' about how brutal you get to be in war, so its better for guilt and stuff"
That's not a theological or moral stance you hilarious twit
You may as well be arguing about the morality of Superman v. Batman you phoney 'Islamist'
>>74541878
Do you really want to live in a society like that? No.
Stupid teenagers
>>74541854
It's no use arguing with Muslims though really. Their arguments will always lead back to "But other people did it first/do worse things!" and they make historical arguments to distract from the real issue. Which is, of course, that their religion was written by a warlord who either had a mental disorder or was tricked by a demon.
>>74539671
Pillaging serves a war purpose you know, first, you need to pay your troops to fight. We do that today sans pillaging because we don't need it. Second, pillaging ensures the people don't rise up against you on your 6 and kill you. And thirdly, you need the food and fresh horses to survive.
On the rape issue, its way too long ago to assume any numbers are real. Its all too much rumor. I have to ask you who got more tan during the Muslim attacks and who got white?
Oh yeah I am sorry do we still not have a white variant in Arab lands?
Do we actually have curly hair and dark skinned Italians and Spaniards? Oh we do? Checkmate Atheists. Guess I solved that rape problem.
>>74541952
>Do you really want to live in a society like that? No.
Don't answer the question for me. And yes, I really want to live in a society like that.
>>74541762
Lol would love to see the stats for that figure. Also, grouping all Muslims under one banner in which they are all killing for the same purpose is a misnomer. Who they're and killing and why they are killing them matter just like Germany in WW2. You don't count their combatants killed towards the genocide total.
>>74541994
It's not for arguing with Muslims. It's more for arguing with your own people. You don't bring human rights to a holy war
>>74541874
It probably won't work in the us because you have no cultural history. 200 years isn't much when all our towns are easily 500+ years.
We have family lines here and we have been here a long time.
Our economy is stable so long as the EU remains intact. Although, just my opinion, even if the EU collapses, Germany will be fine. 2 world wars and we spring back. We are a strong people, riddled with guilt.
Life is not worth anything. It has no real value, only what we value it at. That value changes from person to person.
Exterminating a pestulant species is OK in my books. No more mosquitoes
>>74541830
That's exactly the point. Once the first enemies are killed, then another group is identified. So on and so forth until you fucking idiots are killing one another over nothing. Go read about the history of violent revolutions and see how they end.
>>74542049
>I would love to see the stats
Educate yourself faggot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests_on_the_Indian_subcontinent#Impact_of_Islam_and_Muslims_in_India
>>74542047
I'm sure if you crossed the border into Hungary or East Germany and had a conversation with some older people who got to experience communist dictatorships you'd get some perspective
>>74542168
Why didn't that happen in/after the American revolution?
>>74541790
Ding ding ding - this Muslim thinks:
1. The best religion must be true. Better read up on Wikipedia and figure out which one is best.
2. The best religion must be the one that gives you the best deal on things like guilt...
3. Islam seems easy enough! Not much morality there, so therefore it must be true!
This is hilarious. Muslims are retarded.
>>74540803
Hello,
there are some key assumptions here, however. first, is the idea that most right wing leaning people would be completely in agreement with keeping church and state separate. I'm not sure I'm convinced, personally, but I'll grant you it anyway.
>secularism as corruption
There are those here in America that see it the same way. Removal of God from schools and currency and the associated controversies are some examples. The widespread distrust of atheism and its connotation with sinful behavior are another example.
>traditional values
Isn't that what all right wing leaning people want?
>sharia
Not certain of how Islamic this belief is and how much was an invention of Arabia for the purpose of spreading its own culture.
Thanks for your thoughts.
>>74542140
Then what will the bird and frogs have to feed on? Exterminate one and it causes havoc in another. You're attempting social control when you can't predict the outcomes.
And people have inherent value whether they know it or not. They choose to compromise and destroy their value on a daily basis, but there it still exists.
>>74542267
Because the Americans wanted freedom, not a megalomanical dictator
>>74542191
>>74542049
OK to the US guy. We are splitting hairs. This will get us nowhere.
To the Aussie, based.
>>74541306
See ? I'm all for 'its okay to not be married', i'm all for feminism and gay marriage. Am i assimilated enough ? Isn't that what western society is all about ? Muh gender equality ?
>>74542253
There are other dictatorships than communist ones.
And I have family that lived under the DDR - compared to now they look back on it with nostalgia. Even in the DDR you had order and purpose - something which we now lack. That's what causes our degeneration and our hedonism.
How you can be fine with the way things are is beyond me.
>>74542381
I'm not happy with how things are either, I just want a moral society free of mudraces that is also FREE. And FREEDOM precludes secret police executing political dissidents
>>74542267
Well luck was on our side for one. We had a strong leader in Washington who resisted the calls for him to become a dictator. Also, because we set up a Constitution midway thru the Revolution, it helped to ground us. And, we didn't fight the battle over slavery but instead chose to delay it until the Civil War. However, I would honestly attribute it to luck because France had a Constitution as well and they went down the shitter pretty fast.
>>74536163
>What do you all think? If Islam was brought to Europe by white men
It was, and failed
>what reason would there be to not embrace it?
Because there is absolutely not a dot of evidence that there would be anything after Jesus.
Islam was created by the Roman Catholic church for Arabs who wouldn't bite their bile.
The Hadiths were introduced because they were too close to the truth when worshipping God alone and not their 'prophet'. Catholicism is a front by the anti-Christ and the trinity is utter nonsense.
>>74542323
Regarding the mosquitoes.
Its been checked and studied, and determined it will have no detrimental effect.
Also, remember, many other species have gone extinct before today. The isn't the first time something will stop existing.
>>74542338
I want freedom too and I sincerely believe that I can only get freedom from the current system and from the degenerate lifestyle it perpetuates under the a hand that knows how to rule.
If anything this freedom obsession with you colonials has shown is that people can't stay decent if given the freedom not to be decent. Freedom that's abused by our enemies to destroy us and used by our degenerates to spread their filth.
No, we need someone willing and able to crack down on this so that we don't end up in our current situation again.
>>74541790
>encourages violence
Okay, let's leave the history alone since I think you said in another post that it seems distracting. I think I'm not being clear enough since you again repeat that I'm trying to point fingers right back at Christians, which I stated is not at all what I am trying to do.
Where does the idea that these acts are disgusting and brutal come from? Speak of your own person, please. What has brought you to the conclusion that mercy is the right way and that violent retribution is not?
>>74542542
I guess it comes down to me inheriting the frontier spirit of my ancestors vs. you inheriting the contentment with autocracy of your ancestors.
The "strong leader" thing is ridiculous though. What, some guy I went to school with is now the Supreme Dictator? Ridiculous
>>74542459
>muh freedom
See >>74542542
When people are free to advocate for those mudraces you end up with mudraces. Just kill everyone that wants them here and they won't come.
>>74542495
Well, there you go. All you need is luck
What a shitty argument.
>>74542357
>>74542191
So you're comparing all Muslim conquest since its inception to Nazism in the 1930's-1945. Seems a little unequal but no matter.
By that same standard, SJWs say Christians killed or enslaved about 1/5 of the world's population. See how ridiculous the stat is because not all of those people that were killed or enslaved by colonialism were done so in the name of Christianity. The same can be said of Islam.
>>74542507
Interesting. Could you please elaborate? Why do you believe this?
>>74536163
Islam is incompatible with Western culture.
>>74542615
>What, some guy I went to school with is now the Supreme Dictator? Ridiculous
It's easier to kill just that one guy than to kill an entire corrupt apparatus like we have currently.
And if you can't kill him or don't want to kill him, then you're content with him ruling over you (or your corpse). It's really simple.
>>74536163
>Most of what I read pointed to this idea: that Islam is "not just a religion, but a cultural and racial identity." Is this convincing enough?
there is not much of a debate about this,
there exists universality in religious teachings, for example the existence of the metaphysical, or in the case of the big 3 the one god, but a religion will without exception manifest with regional variations in its teachings, its temples, and its art.
Islam and christianity are different in the same way arabs and europeans are different, so islam has no place here, and christianity no place over there.
>>74542655
That's why you have total free speech. If people are free to point out how completely stupid people who want to bring in the muds are, it's not an issue.
>>74542655
It's all you ever need really
>>74542748
>If people are free to point out how completely stupid people who want to bring in the muds are, it's not an issue.
But you were free to do so and got them regardless. That's because it's easier to make up bullshit and lies and spread feelgood agendas than refuting them.
People will always go with what sounds nice and what feels good. It's why they can't be given too much power like it's the case in democracy.
>>74542662
No, I'm keeping comparing the impact of Islam in ONE country with the impact of Nazism in Germany and Poland.
Nazis had the advantage of industrialisation but even so, the entire death toll inflicted by all parties in WW2 doesn't match what happened in India under Islamic rule.
You wanted proof that Muslims killed more than the Nazis, I gave it to you.
Ironically, instead of converting anyone to Islam, this thread just made more people realize that trying to speak to Muslims as if they're equal to normal people is not as effective as just shooting at them
This thread was so pointless. You Muslims truly are too thick. I sympathize for your kind less and less the more I know and understand about you.
>>74542296
The US difference would be people lamenting the fact that we've compromised our "Christian Heritage" by removing God from the public sphere. With sharia, its much deeper than that.
Sharia, literally translated as law, is the Islamic system of justice. When its instituted, everything from divorce to how much compensation you get when your child is injured is covered under sharia. It is determine by Imans reading of Qu'ranic scripture. Additionally, the political sphere in some Islamic countries like Iran is completely intertwined with Islam where the Grand Ayatollah has as much say as the Prime Minister. It's a system completely foreign to the West.
>>74541994
I thought you were going to be reasonable about this, actually. Too bad. You can't see that what is futile is arguing for the moral high ground of one religion over another using the moral code of the one you already believe in.
Furthermore you totally misinterpreted my argument as "none of it means anything anyway," when really what I said was that one is militarily useful and the other is wholly fairy tale levels of innocence.
If a man asked God how he should go about in his person to stay in His grace while at war, and He said "nothing, don't go to war, forgive your enemy" and another God (let's call him Allah), said "slaughter them and let them know I am with you, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth", only the most meek and pathetic of men would choose the former.
The god of the old testament and the god of the islamists is a god that men can understand.
Jesus was invented to disenfranchise the powerful in favor of the weak.
>>74542552
Why do you think that Muhammad is worthy of being followed? I think most people would agree, regardless of belief in Jesus' deity, that he was a good leader and a good person. The only people who seem to think that of Muhammad are Muslims, who most often have been raised to believe it.
Muhammad waged war brutally, raped a 9 year old girl after grooming her to be his wife, even broke his own rules about how many wives he could have. He himself feared he was seeing a demon when he first had his own "revelations".
And besides this, Islam itself has strange and oftentimes silly rules: if a woman or a dog passes by a man who is praying, the prayer is worthless. How does that make any sense at all?
It is a strange religion. Seen as a whole and without close inspection, it seems like most other religions, but in reality it is not.
>>74540141
Much of the Roman-Greco stuff has survived, so that won't be a problem. The Germanic stuff is a little harder, but one of the main texts, the Völuspá, has still largerly survived. However, a lot of this stuff would have to be slightly modified for modern times, and would take decades to centuries to be revived fully
>>74536163
>vilified
That implies they were unfairly portrayed in a negative light.
The nazis were wrong about Islam.
>If Islam was brought to Europe by white men, what reason would there be to not embrace it?
Because its fucking savage and regressive? How many inventions have come out of the Muslim world lately?
>>74536163
Islam can't into separation of church and state. It will never be compatible with Western civilization.
>>74542917
That's over 500 fucking years as compared to a decade! Additionally, you're saying that ALL 80 million deaths in India during Muslim rule are the result of systematic genocide. Obviously, many people would take issue with that statement just like people who say ALL Native American or Aboriginal death is attributable to the US or Australia respectively. That's complete garbage.
>>74542731
But we absolutely know this not to be the case because it would follow that regions were and forever will be of the religious character they were millenia ago. Yet some of those places that are Islamic now, were not always Islamic but Buddhist or Zoroastrian or some such. Same with Christian lands.
If some religions can be overwritten with others than why not these Abrahamic ones?
>>74543096
My people used to worship Tanaris or what he was called before we became a province of Rome and then later we got flooded with German refugees, what am I supposed to do?
>>74543063
>You can't see that what is futile is arguing for the moral high ground of one religion over another using the moral code of the one you already believe in.
It's not even about my belief, it's about what European values are, and indeed what are objectively the best rules for human society. War is not good for human society. Oppression is not good for human society. Evil acts of brutality are not good for human society. Humans and other advanced animals are physically, mentally, and I would argue spiritually harmed by being put through ordeals, which shows that acts of brutality and violence are objectively wrong. You can argue that a child can "get over" being forced to marry a 50 year old and being raped by him, but if it is something they have to recover from and survive in the first place to "get over" it, then it is clearly wrong, not right.
IS is somewhat loosely interpreting how they can treat other Muslims, Christians, and Jews, but otherwise they are obeying the rules of Islam. That is the reality of Islam. Would you like to live under their rule? If no, why not? What is objectively wrong about it to you?
>>74543302
Is there any documentation on it? Some oral traditions or any info?
>>74542717
It is such hyperbole to say "everything and everyone is corrupt! Let's just start from scratch!"
How about you visit Iraq or South Sudan and ask how "starting from scratch" works out. We have an imperfect system. It's not broken nor does it need radical change to fix. Just because politicians are your personal servants, caving to your every need doesn't mean they need to be overthrown
>>74543400
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taranis
No primary sources from what I've seen.
>>74543187
Well except US does get blamed for all native american deaths. I see so many memes that say US killed 87 million even though that's obviously bullshit.
It constantly gets waved over our heads.
Islam has been cause for the death and enslavement of many more people than colonialism ever has, and provided none of the benefits to industry that colonialism did.
>>74537464
I'm glad you type this so I don't have to.
There's no religion in the world that is as incompatible with what we have in the West as is Islam. To welcome it is to piss on everything from Freud to the Renaissance to Socrates. Every. Fucking. Thing.
They will outbreed us. They will outnumber us. And they will not give one damn about anything we believe. Do not let the snake in.
>>74543076
I did not imply a thing about the worthiness of any religion.
I'll look into Muhammed's abuses because I see this repeated often but never with credible sources. Thanks for your thoughts.
>>74541625
>They actively genocide'd which the Muslims haven't yet apparently decided to do.
Are you fucking kidding me? Most of the Muslim world calls for death to the infidels and ESPECIALLY the eradication of the Jews, worldwide, not just the ones living in their country like Hitler.
>>74543063
Again, it's obvious that you're not very old, and that you have an underdeveloped brain, and are likely introverted and undersocialized... you've never been in a physical fight, have you?
You're trying to insist that the One True Religion is the one that allows the most indiscriminate killing - oh, pardon me 'military effectiveness'
Perhaps if somebody started a religion that was entirely focused on war and included instructions for how to disassemble an AK-47 in in its holy scriptures you'd be forced to convert, as based on your own comments here, as it would be more useful and therefore more true than Islam!
seriously kid, you have brain damage
>>74543437
We're not sandniggers, why would I visit Iraq or South Sudan if I want some comparison? There have been 2 dictatorships in the past 100 years in my country after the government got either overthrown or loopholes got abused.
>We have an imperfect system. It's not broken nor does it need radical change to fix.
Why would we keep the inferior system around when there are better picks?
>>74543573
>never with credible sources.
Try a history book, cunt.
>>74543481
And most rational/historically oriented people disregard that as complete bullshit.
Well, since Islam isn't a state policy like colonialism is, I hope it wouldn't be providing industry and such. They are apples and oranges.
>>74543667
>Again, it's obvious that you're not very old, and that you have an underdeveloped brain, and are likely introverted and undersocialized... you've never been in a physical fight, have you?
>seriously kid, you have brain damage
What a mature argument.
>>74543563
You and the person you quoted both made the error of assuming I speak of assimilating Arabs into Europe. I do not. I am talking about Islamized Europeans.
I said and mean Islam as a religion, not as an ethnic group that is entering the country, though I am sure you will explain adequately how that is impossible and how Arabs will erase Europe.
>>74543732
it's more or less what you deserve to hear. the truth.
>>74543573
>I did not imply a thing about the worthiness of any religion.
If you're not asking whether Islam is a worthy religion for the modern day, what are you asking, or what point are you making? I don't understand what you're getting at.
>>74543584
Which is precisely the difference. ISIS is genocidal; they've actively pursued killing Christians and Shia.
Iran however has yet to go genocidal despite threatening it.
>>74543811
I'm not even the anon you were responding to. How does your post make any sense? You flailing around insults like that without even being able to follow the conversation is a sure sign that you're projecting with what you said in your last post.
>>74543723
>since Islam isn't a state policy
Why would you even have an opinion of Islam if you have no fucking idea of what it is? Holy shit, moron, read a fucking book.
Islam is a guideline for state policies, conquest, and daily life. Its a political ideology more than it is a spiritual vision.
>>74543187
>It's complete garbage because I can't conceive of it! #NotAllMuslims!
I stacked the entire death toll of the bloodiest conflict in human history - involving multiple great industrial powers - against the Islamic conquest of one country. One.
You're still not happy.
No-one used the word genocide though it is clearly a fucking holocaust, given the technology and population at the time, even if it took 500 years.
If somebody wants to start a religion that includes a fitness prescription and some protein powder recipes, you can convert most of the poser Muslims on /pol/ who have such masculine tastes
(by masculine I mean kinda gay)
it'll be trendy because they're going to get bored of roleplaying as muslims sooner or later
>>74543683
Thanks for the suggestion but I have never seen it repeated in a history book. I guess I should look in the alternative history section of the store? Where the books on alien influence on Egypt are kept?
>>74543333
czech republic'd for truth
>>74538124
The Golden Age is literally haram according to the Koran.
>>74543886
your penis is small, your theology is weak, and your skin is thin
not an impressive showing tonight, muzzies
>>74536163
>European Islam
oxymoron
>>74543679
Well I was referencing the American opinion, not your own. It's Austria isn't it?
My whole point can be summed up with the Austrian-Hungarian Empire and its demise with WWI. Be careful what you wish for when you call to "overthrow the corrupt government" because it can start a greater conflict than you initially foresee.
With islam fundamentalism=extremism
As opposed to the other religions the rules of the book are cristal clear and not translated : can't be "modernized" or "moderated".
>>74544088
I'm not a moslem either.
>not an impressive showing tonight
Why don't you stop this pathetic act then?
>>74536163
kill yourself, im not becoming a raghead
>>74543063
This is disturbing. Are you really saying that Islam is true because it's more militarily useful?
Apart from being logically bizarre it's just worrying. Take a second and just think. Is it really good, wholesome, right etc to value violence like this? Is that going to make the world better? Once you've grown up a bit you'll come to understand that war in general is really, really shitty and should be avoided at all costs.
It's hard to know where to start with your post. Jesus was "invented"? You do realise that he's a prophet in Islam too don't you? You're supposed to believe in him.
>>74543992
I doubt you've read any history books, let alone all of them to make that claim.
Any right-thinking individual who possesses common sense would find it obvious that you don't turn an all-Christian middle east into a muslim one without blood-stained steel.
Mohammed was really only the beginning, since it was those who followed in his footsteps that really began the genocidal slaughter that Islam is famous for.
>>74544176
>My whole point can be summed up with the Austrian-Hungarian Empire and its demise with WWI.
And after that we got Austrofascism under Dollfuß which I'm a follower of.
And after that we got annexed by Hitler, which should be an inspiration to anyone here.
And after that we've got the current system that's shit entirely, so it's pretty clear what systems are good and what systems aren't.
I'm willing to compromise on the monarchy front and I'm willing to compromise on the Nazi front. What I'm not willing to compromise on is having my nation corroded and destroyed and forever pushed into degeneracy because of this short-lived fad of democracy and freedom. No, fuck that shit.
>>74543863
>Iran however has yet to go genocidal despite threatening it
Well now that Obama has put Iran on the fast track to nuclear ICBMs and the ability to convert their currency into USD, it won't be long. Either by dirty bomb smuggled into a country or missle, Iran is gonna do it sooner or later, Israel probably being their main target.
And now that the deal is done how do we stop them? Stuxnet type viruses? Infiltration teams? We might end up in a cold war with Iran if they achieve viable nuke delivery. And in this case it would be in our best interest, since if Iran starts saber rattling with nukes, Israel will not hesitate to defend itself, and that could mean WW3.
>>74544320
You think if you just had a monarch your country would be immune to the outside influence of globalism? All they have to do now is corrupt ONE PERSON instead of hundreds to own your country.
>>74543922
I said genocide. But that guys just running with the posts
>>74543842
I am asking for opinions on Islamized Europeans. I am asking questions to invoke well reasoned responses in defense of those opinions. I am looking to further my own philosophical arguments by gauging how other people think and feel on the topic so I may construct a stronger personal worldview.
I have not and will not share my personal thoughts on the matter. Playing devil's advocate or whatever you want to call it. It's purely socratic questioning. How European for a Islam shill, no?
>>74544227
He's going to respond that he doesn't 'value violence' (just masculine strength!!) and then mention something about Crusaders and guilt again
>>74543922
Because you're just randomly attributing all those deaths to intentionally plans by Muslim rulers to exterminate the indigenous populace. Again, take my aborigine example: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1999/09/geno-s07.html
it's like saying every one of these cases is an example of intentional genocide which they are not.
>>74544429
you have not posted a single thing that would be considered a coherent thought, let alone philosophy - get off /pol/, stop pretending that you literally believe in the divinity of Muhammed (it's plain that you don't) and go socialize. Philosophy and religion are not for you.
I'm serious, this isn't just a snarky comment. You need to find a new path in life because you're no good at philosophy or theology. Abandon this.
>>74543911
>state policy=political ideology
>mfw
>>74543187
I understand what you are saying. #notallmuslims and that's a point in all religions books. You can't blame a religion unanimously because many supporters aren't bloodthirsty. But, you can see that a particular idea or religion encourages death and murder more than an other. And you can see the effects of that idea or religion in society more prominently than those commit by followers of any other idea or religion..
Case in point: Nazis. You labelled them all together, and you label everyone who disagrees with you a nazi. But most Nazis aren't really Nazis by your standards. #notallnazis
>>74544401
>All they have to do now is corrupt ONE PERSON instead of hundreds to own your country.
That's the best thing about it. It's easier to get rid of that one person than getting rid of hundreds of corrupt politicians like we have now.
tl;dr startring dump now
>>74544575
Political ideology and state policy are very much related. Are you retarded?
>>74544331
Lol i'm not doubting Obama is a fucking idiot for giving Iran nukes when they have been consistently saying they want to destroy Israel/US.
My point being that while they have said this, they haven't actively partaken (most likely because the reprisal from Israel or US would wipe them off the earth.
>>74543187
Also, this was during a time of war fought by the entire world. World War. Not a small conflict. We had armies approaching on both sides. We were rushed. If we were left to our devices like the middle eastern Arabs, we'd still get it done in a decade, but cause we are efficient as fuck. Muslims are just inherently dumb and lack the intelligence to implement anything is a reasonable amount of time.
But, when your goal is the eradication of all the kaffir, and you've already been killing for 1400 years then you aren't really rushed like us
>>74544550
>stop pretending you believe in the divinity of Muhammed
Laughable considering your previous posts here. Good luck in life, friend.
