Except for heavily taxing the rich, how can the flow of wealth come back down to the middle and lower class?
>>74410217
>wealth is a zero sum game
>>74410217
The hoarding of wealth does not cause poverty though. Capitalism in general has lifted billions out of poverty. However there is a limit to how much good capitalism can do, and in the west we are quickly approaching it. Odds are the the world will be (anarcho) communist in about 100 or so years.
>>74410217
will jodie foster gibs me dat?
>>74411040
This.
>I am poor because other people are rich
>I make less money because other people make more money
The FRAUD of the fucking CENTURY
>>74411040
not an argument
>>74412690
but there has been a massive distribution of wealth to the top in the past few decades
Here's where Ms. Foster lives, BTW. And located in Beverly Hills, no less.
"Equality for thee but not for me."
>>74410217
I guess I get to attack her in self-defense now.
>>74412793
Thanks to the government system which will always do this so long as they are given the power to
Absolute power corrupts absolutely
You have no one to thank but yourselves
Rich people are scapegoats. Like I said.... Just because one man is rich does not make another poor. To say otherwise is to have zero grasp on economics or its basic functioning
And wealth redistribution in any direction is wrong -- how can you argue otherwise?
>>74410217
Jodie Foster is one of the few politically good actresses and she's right if she's talking about cartels and crony capitalism, where public and private sectors are mixed and the government aggressively prevents competition. The terms used are vague. Most people think "rich" means "richer than me." If she's talking about Soros, Gates, Adelson and so on then yeah they actively work to destroy the middle class and social mobility.
>>74410217
Jobs.
Education.
Not being gibmedats
Its really not hard.
>>74410217
>hoarding wealth
When the fuck will this stupid meme die? The rich don't have big vaults full of cash that they swim in. They become/stay rich by investing (ie. lending to other people) that money.
>>74410217
>actress
that is clearly a man
>>74412749
His argument is that wealth isn't a zero sum game. Sarcasm is when you insist on one thing but intend people to see right through it. In the way he bluntly reduced the argument to it's core, he showed it for what it was. Pretty difficult thing to understand but we are all learning!
>>74412959
how does the govt allow the rich to get richer?
>>74413035
i mean, theres plenty of investment, but if you think theres no hoarding as well, youre retarded
>>74410217
Start getting control over the banks. Somehow the world is in debt more than it can produce, which makes zero sense once you think about it.
Basically, governments would have more money if they weren't spending it on interest on loans, to the banks, whom created that money from nothing.
>>74412793
No, there hasn't.
The x% still own the same percentages of companies, etc. as before. It's just that the stock market is massively inflated. So if the DOW goes from 9000 to 18000, those people who own the same shares of stock as before are now twice as rich, on paper.
The reality is, they own nothing more than they did before. Just some percentage of ownership of corporations. The fact that the stock is (over)valued doesn't mean shit, because to 'spend' that wealth, you have to sell the stock, and the stock will only have that value so long as people are willing to pay that amount for it. If the rich try to liquidate and monitize their assets, the economy would collapse and those shares would be worthless.
>>74410217
You realize money holds no physical value anymore right? It lost all meaning when we started keeping track of it all digitally.
>>74412793
Becsuse since the 70's/ 80's middle class jobs have been outsourced overseas, women entered the workforce in droves devaluing the price of labor due to the influx of supply, and an insufferable tax code that makes business in the US a nightmare compared to other countries. Also the devaluing of the dollar from inflation via minimum wage hikes and printing money we don't have in practice
>>74411040
if its not then it doesn't matter if the minimum wage is 15 an hour
>>74410217
Wealth is not a zero-sum game. Destroying wealth does not cause it to trickle down. Where the fuck were you when they taught economics and basic common sense?
>>74411040
its a zero sum game when you redistribute wealth
>>74410217
just take their money who cares its only like 100 people.
>>74413151
selective enforcement of increasing regulations. Also, the govt are rich themselves. half of the ten richest counties are in and around DC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-income_counties_in_the_United_States
>>74413392
if you generate $30 an hour of revenue, sure, you should get $15 an hour. if you generate $6 an hour of revenue, why would we want to make society and civilization poorer?
>>74410217
>Jodie Foster net worth: $100M USD
>>74413427
Actually not a bad idea. Just arrest and execute the 100 richest people in the world and take their wealth. The world would probably end up a better place overall, and it would send a strong warning to others.
>>74410217
free market
britain inadvertently brought more people out of poverty than all world aid combined in the last hundred years through its actions in hong kong
>>74413197
Money that is hoarded is money that continually loses value thanks to inflation. When you are rich, you do not stay that way by keeping millions sitting idle in your basement (unless you're a drug lord). Nobody actually "hoards" money, unless you consider buying luxury goods like yachts to be hoarding.
>>74410217
Her movie was really bad though.
The rich could realize the pointlessness of wealth and donate/spend their billions like Bill Gates instead of handing it off to their spoiled trust fund kids like Trump.
>oh yeah I went there
>>74410217
I don't hate the rich, just the globalist scum that sold my country out to foreigners.
>>74410217
http://gonetworth.com/jodie-foster-net-worth/
>Jodie Foster net worth: $100M USD
I want to hang these people so bad
>>74413714
This. Even putting money in a bank is investing because the bank turns around and lends most of it. Actual hoarding of money by rich people doesn't really exist.
>>74413714
>Money that is hoarded is money that continually loses value thanks to inflation.
This is so fucking negligable I'm surprised you're attempting to use it as an argument...
>>74410217
Poor people spend every free dime on dumb shit. Drugs, status symbols, etc.
If I get a sudden windfall of cash, I put 90% of it towards accumulating more wealth. I buy productive assets. I make nearly 6 figures (LOL CANADIAN DOLLARS THO) and I still bring lunches to work so I can save 5 bucks a day to put into my investments.
Poor people are stupid faggots and you're ruining everything by robbing us by trying to help them just to prove the "hurr durr everyone is equal" meme. Let them fucking starve if they're so determined to, jesus.
>>74414030
It's pretty significant and illogical to just let it sit under your mattress. What possible benefit is there?
>>74411040
Money is a 0 sum game dumbass there is limited currency
>>74412690
There is limited currency idiot
>>74414030
>You may think that 7% inflation in the 1970's is terrible but 2% or 3% per year since 1990 isn't so bad right? Well, the total cumulative inflation for the almost 22 years from January 1990 through December 2014 is 86.2%. In other words, something that cost $100 in January of 1990 would cost $186.20 in December of 2014 in other words prices almost doubled (i.e. purchasing power fell almost by half) and that is what happens at "low" inflation rates.
http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation/DecadeInflation.asp
>>74414275
>It's pretty significant and illogical to just let it sit under your mattress. What possible benefit is there?
There is none. But that doesn't mean it isn't happening. It's not in the mattress, but in the bank typically so there's some interest. Or it's put into real-estate. The richest people have more money than they even know what to do with so it's not getting spent or invested in anything. What benefit is there to invest when you have all the money you could ever want? There's only unnecessary risks. Spending significant money on investments at that point only becomes a point of personal interest or pride or charity.
>>74410217
>saving money makes people poor
>millionaire actress
She's being sarcastic
>>74414679
>There is none. But that doesn't mean it isn't happening. It's not in the mattress, but in the bank typically so there's some interest
If it's in the bank then it is being put back into the economy since the bank lends out money
>Or it's put into real-estate
then its going to other people who either build or sell the home to them
>The richest people have more money than they even know what to do with so it's not getting spent or invested in anything
by your own statements it is
>Rich liberal woman makes supremely ignorant & stupid statement
uh huh
Let me guess, she supports hillary?
>>74411973
THERE MUST BE LOSERS in this system.
Hidden Secrets of Money 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0
bringing back living wage industrial jobs might help. obammy's stupid trans pacific dealie is a stupid idea. raising tarrifs on import will probably harm consumers and not do much to increase labor at home, so lets skip that idea. but offshoring jobs in the first place is a bad idea. i think we at the point where globablism has clearly made some people extremely wealthy and has kind of fucked the middle sector. great, things are cheaper because they are made in asia but at what price does that come for the middle income bracket?
>>74414346
>What is Quantitative Easing
>>74414545
$100.00 in 1990 got you an NES with 8 bits of processing power. $50.00 in 2016 gets you a fucking smartphone that would only be a Star Trek prop in '90. Your point is asinine.
>>74415310
>raising tarrifs on import will probably harm consumers and not do much to increase labor at home, so lets skip that idea.
bring back tariffs but get rid of income tax
>>74413392
What incentive does that give to business owners to not fire your ass because they're struggling as is?
Now instead of you and Jamal getting 7.25 each Jamal takes over your work and gets double his pay for less effective service and less revenue.
>>74410217
By working hard and being a valuable asset in an open market society. :-3
>>74410217
breeding creates poverty becaues resources are not infinite and logistics are limited by time
you guys love trump and he wants to make america great again
guess what? in the past executive pay was a lot closer to worker pay than it is now
therefore you support taking wealth from the top percent and giving it back to the worker
>>74415497
>I can barely pay my bills or buy groceries but at least I have a chinese slave labor phone
ok
Is there anything worse than self righteous Hollywood leftists lecturing the common man on the need for wealth redistribution? What a fucking joke.
>>74415497
Do you really think what you said makes any sense? What is your IQ ?
>>74410217
>>74414807
>If it's in the bank then it is being put back into the economy since the bank lends out money
Except not really. The bank has in principle infinite money. Which means it's pretty much going to lend X amounts regardless of how much it has stored. I.e. according to demand and wealth creation in the general society.
>then its going to other people who either build or sell the home to them
That's the best case scenario, doesn't mean enough is going back into the system. Nobody can actually buy these houses as they're too expensive and not enough money is flowing to potential house buyers. There's way more houses than homeless peopel in the US but nobody is buying. But they say it's a bubble that has to burst.
What's more is China is hoarding shittons of US dollar reserves. Combined with the US massive trade deficit it's growing rapidly.
>>74410217
So wait, she is against placing large amounts of money in savings accounts?
If your money is invested, and not in some stagnant account, it's part of the economy.
>>74415384
Something that thakes money out of the system and gives it to banks
>ITT: Poor people defending their masters' hold over them via specious ideas of "free" market ideology that even Smith laughed at
>>74410217
>the rich create poverty
poverty is the natural state of human beings, we shouldn't be surprised and ask ourselves "why and how there's poverty?", there have always been poverty much before capitalism, we should ask ourselves "HOW THE FUCK are there so many non-poor people?", "how the fuck there's so much wealth in this world that this actress lives well-off of acting instead of having to harvest food to survive?"
And the definitions of poverty change over time, today poor people have television, food to the point of going obese, electricity and so forth. None of these would be possible without innovations by people looking to make profit.
>>74415497
The fact that Americans dollars are worth 2-3 times less than it was when Boomers ruled the roost is asinine?
How much is milk? How much are apples and bananas?
Probably wouldn't know since you pay $6 for each pack of Bagel Bites you shamelessly walk out of the store with.
>>74415599
Requires ivy league whixh only the rich
>>74415669
Inflation is a non-factor. The only problem with today's economy is that too much money is being held back from paying wages and is not being capitalized effectively. It grows, it accumulates interest and dividends, but it's not going to work putting people to work, and it's not being paid out. Inflation is a red herring.
>>74415786
Investing is bad for the economy. Makes the rich richer and takes money out of the system
>>74415878
Bananas are 59 cents a fucking pound. How much cheaper do you want them?
>>74415865
People like to think we've come above nature but have absolutely no idea this is our version of nature, only instead of people starving to death and dying they sit in front of Wal-Mart with a cup of change in their hands.
>>74415941
Inflation is a factor if you stuff your money in a mattress which is the point I was making
there's only 3 options
higher minimum wage/maximum wage
basic income
no minimum wage with mandatory unionization
>>74415992
Investing provides jobs, market growth, and increased wages...
Are you some dumb Canadian who's economy and national security are 100% a result of the kindness of my great nation?
Please learn to economy.
>>74416014
Sorry, I don't eat bananas because I'm not a homosexual gay faggot.
>>74415781
>Except not really. The bank has in principle infinite money. Which means it's pretty much going to lend X amounts regardless of how much it has stored. I.e. according to demand and wealth creation in the general society.
you mean fractional reserve banking? it's not infinite and depending on the country it depends on how much they can lend out. still the bank is using that money to stimulate the economy through loans. It's not like the banks are keeping the money in the vault and doing nothing with it... the whole point of fractional reserve banking is that they lend out more than they have.
>That's the best case scenario
what other scenario is there? how are they putting the money in real estate if sellers or builders aren't getting anything?
>Nobody can actually buy these houses as they're too expensive and not enough money is flowing to potential house buyers
so the people building the house get the money, and the rich guy either lives in that house or does something productive with it (finding people to rent it out to or sell to)
>>74415852
>pic
It's like you can see her personality. 10/10 would talk to at party
>>74410217
> Waaaah, give me your money
> The reason I suck in life is because your rich and make good investments waaah!
Fuck these people
>>74410217
taxation doesn't bring money from the rich to the middle or lower income levels you fucking moron. it sends it to the government, where the rich who pretend not to be send it back to the rich in a million different programs.
You can't be this stupid.
So when is Jodie Foster going to give up her millions? She's speaking as if she's not rich herself.
>>74410217
>hoarding wealth is the cause of poverty
>>74416190
>Doesn't eat bananas because not faggot
>Instead Shoves them up ass
Fucking leafs.
>>74416175
Learn economics. Investing makes the rich richer. You are so dumb
>>74416014
Why the fuck would you you be eating bananas?
Are you some kind of faggot?
>>74416390
>wahhhh i dont want to pay taxes wahhh socialism scares me wahhh
>>74416395
You are so fucking stupid
>>74410217
Give them the choice to work or starve. Guarantee you the number of people in poverty will shrink.
>>74416577
I buy them to stuff in your mom's twat. If it comes back with a bite taken out, she's knocked up again
>>74416652
Its not a choice to work because there is no jobs
>>74416227
>you mean fractional reserve banking? it's not infinite and depending on the country it depends on how much they can lend out. still the bank is using that money to stimulate the economy through loans. It's not like the banks are keeping the money in the vault and doing nothing with it... the whole point of fractional reserve banking is that they lend out more than they have.
Yeah but it means that the demand for loans is the only limiting factor for how much banks will lend out. The money stored by the bank isn't really impacting how much is getting lent out to a significant degree.
>what other scenario is there? how are they putting the money in real estate if sellers or builders aren't getting anything?
Builders get something, but there it stops. They put that in the bank or whatever and the money never reaches the bottom of the society (middle and lower class). Banks aren't gonna lend to those poor fuckers because it's a raw deal and they're paid the least if their jobs aren't shipped off to china.
If the jobs are shipped to China, the dollars for the products are going off-shore or back to the top where they, again, never reach the bottom which is the problem we're having.
>>74416549
investment has risks. obviously if someone is rich they got there by making profitable investments, but you forget about all the other people who made bad investments and were relegated to middle class, as if they don't exist.
>>74416652
what about both
>>74415852
>I'm unsuccessful because the government doesn't take enough of the rich's money and give it to me for free
>>74416613
> Waaah I like having my money stolen from me and put toward butt fuck programs that no one uses, and the ones we do use are inefficient waaah
> Waaaah, why don't you like paying for others with money that you earned, waaaahhh
> Waaaah, I like getting a cock up my ass
Go fucking burn down a forest, you leaf.
>>74416548
Got a problem with pronouns, Shitlord?
>>74416779
You don't lose money investing by putting it in bad investments. You lose it when your broker steals it to snort off a hooker's ass.
>>74410217
>Hoarding of wealth
The rich are different from you and me...for one thing they don't 'hoard wealth.' The rich understand that money that isn't MOVING - that isn't being either spent or invested somewhere -- isn't really money.
This is why hedge fund managers make so much god damned money -- other rich people pay these guys to make sure that their money is invested somewhere that will give them a better than average return.
The problem we're facing now isn't that wealth is being hoarded, but that it's being invested poorly, and the normal market mechanisms that should fix this mis-allocations aren't being allowed to take their course.
I.e., when the housing bubble collapsed in '08, rather than let those bad investments play themselves out, and let the market sort out what all those toxic assets were really worth, and who owed whom and who ultimately owned what, the gov't swooped in to prop up the system with bailouts, QE, etc. All these gov't policies staved off short term pain, but didn't address the root of the problem, which is that the financial sector is being dis-incentivized by gov't policy, here and abroad, to make sound investments. It makes more sense to just keep "investing" money in the Wall St casino, rather than take real risks investing in the real economy, if you know that Uncle Sam and the Fed will bail you out if you fail.
My mother's a Jew, and my father's a Korean. I'd much rather be all one or the other.
>>74410217
Rich person telling poor about the rich?
Fuck her.
BTW: I don't want to steal others money.(ie I'm not a Jew)
>>74410217
Fun Fact: The lower class doesn't benefit from higher taxes on the rich or from social programs.
>>74416716
Not true.
>>74416793
Why not? Worked for me; I starved a lot during my undergrad studies and I'm doing great right now. Fear of failure and the consequences is a powerful motivator.
>>74417025
o fug wrong bread :DDDDDD
>>74416779
Obviously thats wrong. Soros got money through bad stuff
>>74416839
>wahhhhh taxes are bad wahhhhh
>>74416943
>You don't lose money investing by putting it in bad investments
ask the thousands of brazilians who put money in Petrobras in the late 2000s.
>>74413392
>people worth $5 an hour should have to be paid $15 an hour
>but i dont wanna be the one who pays it
>its better for a business to tank and fire all its employees and move then have someone paid under $15 an hour
>>74417042
Fuck you
>>74417160
NAA
Please disregard all 'Hollywood' actors thoughts.
Except John Wayne.
>>74417219
Salty?
>>74416736
>Yeah but it means that the demand for loans is the only limiting factor for how much banks will lend out. The money stored by the bank isn't really impacting how much is getting lent out to a significant degree
The money stored in the bank is the basis for how much they lend out balanced by the risk of a run on bank + government regulations depending on the country. Why would they even pay deposit holders anything if they could lend out as much money as they wanted without having any deposits?
>Builders get something, but there it stops.
how far is it supposed to go?
>They put that in the bank or whatever and the money never reaches the bottom of the society (middle and lower class).
who exactly do you think is building these homes?
> Banks aren't gonna lend to those poor fuckers because it's a raw deal and they're paid the least if their jobs aren't shipped off to china.
Not the case at all, lower and middle class often take out huge loans from the banks and end up paying them for 20+ years. The middle and lower class have the best chance to raise their economic status by having low rate loans in which they can take up entrepreneurial endeavors
>>74417208
>business thinks its entitled to stay in business even though it can't support its costs
just be a better business
>>74416715
It says a lot about a guy, and his sexuality, when the first thing that pops into his head (to be used as an example) is a banana.
>>74417160
So, I'm guessing you like being robbed?
God damn, you're a fucking idiot.
>>74410217
>Jodie Foster
>Net worth $100 million
Okay.
>>74417219
>How to show you can't argue/debate in two words.
>>74417017
best post in the thread, thanks
>>74416817
>I oversimplify complex economic and political issues to fit my ideological values instead of the other way around
This is why no one outside of /pol/ takes /pol/ seriously.
You know, aside from teenagers.
>>74417326
>thinks he can tell businesses how to spend their money and run their employees
>cant support a fucking tariff collected at gunpoint which forces business to flee
>>74417439
Not an argument.
>>74417372
How exactly does taxation = robbing?
>>74417326
This is the stupidest post I've ever read.
>>74417469
>expects common man to support bad business practices
just do more business
>>74417439
>I have no actual rationale or logic behind my beliefs
Canned response;
>Its just complex and you are oversimplifying the problem
>>74417439
>Not debating the point and instead insulting the person
>>74417017
underrated post
>>74417208
Well of course it is man, I mean come on it is the current year, like 2016 and we can't have productive businesses that provide income a way to live right?
>>74417499
Why should the government be allowed to forcibly take people's money?
>>74417499
I want to collect money that you earned.
If you do not relinquish a certain amount of the money, men with guns will come and throw you into a cage.
Is this;
a) Robbery
b) Taxation
>>74417622
To provide military protection and civil protection
>>74417372
You are stupid and love being robbed by an employer
>>74417535
>bad business practices
half of my brain cells just died
>>74417385
Yoy are proof conservatives cant argue
She's essentially bragging about how she creates poverty and maintains it.
>>74417499
Because of the coercive force used by the government to take money from civilians
>>74417764
>a fucking leaf
>>74417667
Far beyond that brah, I have seen it.
Seize house. Wife and kids have to stay at inlaws or parents house.
Find out the IRS was in the wrong, they wont give you a damn dime.
Strange world we live in.
They don't have to have a 'guilty' verdict, they are the law.
>>74417764
>Fuck you
>You just proved you cant argue your points
>CONSERVATIVES CANT ARGUE
reeeeeeee
>>74417742
its not my responsibility to prop up businesses that can't cover their costs
they aren't entitled to anything, they should just make more sales instead of blaming others
>>74417499
Imagine this:
You're a .hardworking individual, let's say an engineer. You work a few good hours a day and quite frankly, you earned every cent of your paycheck.
But there's something odd going on. See,I come to your house, let's say once every month. And when I come over I demand a payment out of your hard earned money for something you never really asked for (but is considered essential). Now, this can go either one of two ways, you can pay the money and I can virtually piss off until next month, or if you don't pay, I hold a gun to your head and promise to beat the shit out of you.
Sound a bit familiar?
>>74416513
When there's no capital investment (esp. production of goods, special services) in the private sector of a state and there's less ways to access to high risk capital for private investors then the wealth circulation in the state tends to decrease and the economic mobility of the consumers in the state tends to slow down as well.
>>74417865
The problem is not costs.
The problem is arbitrary tariffs lifted by the government which force small business to die and large ones not in the purse to flee
You reall want to live in a world where only Wendy's and Wal Mart can hire you?
>>74417764
>How to show you lost the argument in 6 words or less.
>>74417865
I dont think you understand the concept of entitlement. Or of Irony.
Guys, as a businessman I'm going to tell you how taxes work.
Ready for a bombshell?
Ever heard of the trickle down theory?
Ok, so my taxes go up?
Guess what, I just raise my price to compensate..
Guess what guys? You just paid my taxes...
>>74412793
Within the last 300 years, poor people where literally considered property of land owners, quit bitching about how you are treated badly by the rich.
>>74414346
>wealth and money are the same thing
>>74417718
> My money is stolen by the people who give me money to do things! Those people are bad!
What in the honest fuck? That's like saying if I ask you to do my homework in exchange for a chocolate bar, I've somehow stolen from you.
>>74417992
>The problem is not costs.
yeah no shit?
i don't get why people keep bringing it up all the time
>>74418131
So please you liberals, please raise my taxes more, since most of your don't own businesses to begin with... I will just pass it all on down to you.
(This is not how I want to it to be but it is the economic reality.)
>>74412959
>>74413335
/thread
>>74417323
>The money stored in the bank is the basis for how much they lend out balanced by the risk of a run on bank + government regulations depending on the country. Why would they even pay deposit holders anything if they could lend out as much money as they wanted without having any deposits?
My point is that the bank only needs enough of a base so that the fractional reserve can saturate the demand for loans. More money in the bank beyond that isn't going to create more demand for loans and because of that, adding untold billions to the bank isn't going to add to the economy very much.
>how far is it supposed to go?
To the poorest, ideally.
>who exactly do you think is building these homes?
More importantly, who gets all the money when the job is complete? It's not enough downward distribution which is why the middle class is shrinking and the lower class is growing. The upper class has been growing slowly as well. Some win while others are getting pretty royally screwed. At least that's what the stats show.
>Not the case at all, lower and middle class often take out huge loans from the banks and end up paying them for 20+ years. The middle and lower class have the best chance to raise their economic status by having low rate loans in which they can take up entrepreneurial endeavors
Well if they are, then they probably shouldn't as this caused the 2k8 crisis. Social mobility in the US is pretty low so a lot of these loans aren't creating massive success-stories. Least not for the poorest.
Has to be ways of the rich losing their money. Market crashes must be allowed to occur rather than prevented. Problem is the already rich will just post gov to prevent crash.
Interesting problem same as OP said and I believe this is central to the popular leftist book by this Piketty guy recently is, if capital earns a rate of return that's positive at all on an ongoing basis, how can it ever be that the rich won't just get richer and richer? Point is there will be crashes but even those will leave the rich better off than the poor. Could be answered with the master/slave dialectic thing where the rich actually become incompetent due to their wealth and fail because of that.
>>74417622
Why should the government be allowed to grant exclusive property rights to people?
>>74410217
Don't shop at Wal-Mart. Shop local. Save money, and middle class people can eat like Kings every once in a while or buy an upper class car. Lots of options. Also, reduce taxes. Stupid Hawaiian and Californian style economics won't do you any favors.
>>74412959
This x 10
>>74418254
pure entitlement
>>74414807
>What are tax havens?
>>74410217
kill them and take it
>>74417958
What?
The vast majority of investment is done by the private sector for the private sector
The State forcibly taking money and then "just reinvesting" it is retarded
Rich people don't hoard their money (investing out of the country to avoid high high taxes is not "hoarding")
>>74417865
>>74417535
>>74417326
I actually thought about this and realized if a business is incapable of actually providing for workers maybe it should go to shit.
I mean, living near all of these middle class self serve yogurt places clogging up retail space and staffed by people making 10$ an hour is fucking shit. They all say their overhead is low and that a hike in wages would end them.
I never saw an issue with that.
>>74418363
No it is not. If some one has worked a long time to build a business and someone else wants to fuck him out of it how is that entitlement?
>>74417955
>I hold a gun to your head and promise to beat the shit out of you.
>Sound a bit familiar?
Yeah it's like I'm listening to Peter Molyneux. Are you a parrot?
>>74418131
Sounds good to me, because inflation lowers my debt burden.
>>74410217
Proliferation of worker-based cooperatives and growth of trade unions.
>>74411040
Wealth is produced, not just transferred distributed. Every single economist from Marx to Friedman knew this. The issue isn't just that wealth inequality is increasing. It's that the poor and the working class are still working but are either remaining in struggle or are actually getting poorer. This is the case in most industrial and post industrial economies.
>>74418309
Why should the government own land but not people?
>>74412793
Because the rich invest a lot of money in stocks that generate a shitload of passive income over time.
There's a reason why people say they make their second million much faster than they make their first
>>74418131
>"trickle-down theory", is a populist political term used to characterize economic policies as favoring the wealthy or privileged. There is no "trickle down" economics as defined by economists; the term is almost exclusively used by critics of policies with other established names.
>>74410217
Violently seizing assets?
>>74418507
Yes but it does not have to be this way.
Remove loopholes for companies that can get the offshore shit.
Lower tax rate.
Guess what.... I pay less taxes but the other Corporations who can afford to dodge taxes off shore have to pay, and have an incentive to come back here.(and for me it feels more fair)
>>74418534
>It's that the poor and the working class are still working but are either remaining in struggle or are actually getting poorer. This is the case in most industrial and post industrial economies.
Sounds like the problem is "how do we get the poor to invest their money better" rather than "how do we force the rich to give the poor more money"
>>74418457
>I never saw an issue with that.
because there isn't, i'm sick of the entitlement
>>74418462
>someone else wants to fuck him out of it
cite this without your feelings getting in the way
>>74418639
Fine, lets call this the shit rolls downhill theory.
>>74418639
You may be right. I am not wealthy, I only own a business. When my taxes go up, I charge the public more to compensate. So it is trickling down, just in the wrong way.
>>74414252
You're full of shit. Talk to a working class family somewhere. (Read: not a welfare family)
>>74410217
>how can the flow of wealth come back down to the middle and lower class?
By the middle and lower class opening businesses that sell shit to the rich, i.e. by innovating or creating something worth buying.
>>74418294
>My point is that the bank only needs enough of a base so that the fractional reserve can saturate the demand for loans. More money in the bank beyond that isn't going to create more demand for loans and because of that, adding untold billions to the bank isn't going to add to the economy very much.
Then once the bank had enough to meet demand they would just lower interest rates and people would have to find another way to store their money to avoid inflation
>>how far is it supposed to go?
>To the poorest, ideally.
usually construction workers are middle to lower class
>More importantly, who gets all the money when the job is complete? It's not enough downward distribution which is why the middle class is shrinking and the lower class is growing. The upper class has been growing slowly as well. Some win while others are getting pretty royally screwed. At least that's what the stats show.
then limit low skill immigration so there is greater demand for low skill labor
>Well if they are, then they probably shouldn't as this caused the 2k8 crisis. Social mobility in the US is pretty low so a lot of these loans aren't creating massive success-stories. Least not for the poorest.
It's been one of the best systems so far for raising people out of poverty. Britain brought more people out of poverty than all world aid combined in the last 100 years through its actions in hong kong
Generally when hollywood types, politicians, Bernie Sanders, etc. talk about how we need to stop the rich from oppressing us, what they mean is that we need to completely destroy the middle class and open the borders so as to sharply divide the world into the haves and have nots.
Hollywood and Bernie Sanders types envision "we the people" as the government and the privileged elites, the 1% as poor white trash struggling to survive, and "the disenfranchised working class" as "the disenfranchised working class of third world countries, who I need to hire as my nanny and gardener."
>rich people hoard money like scrooge mcduck's giant vault of gold
when will people realize that most of these rich people don't have all of their wealth in cash, and most of it is sitting in stocks, bonds, or investments that are generating economic value? i'm not going to contest that there is a lot of wealth inequality issues in this country, but people seem to think "rich" means you have $1,000,000,000 sitting under a mattress
>>74410217
Why are rich people so anti-rich and pro-commie? If their glorious worker's revolution happens do they think the proletariat mobs won't lynch the celebrities and academics as well?
>>74412892
>>74412908
There's a massive difference between getting rich in the film industry and using money to make money. Her personal wealth is irrelevant.
>>74418850
I am not Trump. I did not have a loan. I had only a couple hundred dollars in the bank. I did what I had to due to build this small business. I want to treat all of my employees as well as I want to be treated. I go out of my way to make sure there stay here. We have one of if not the highest employee retention rates in the state of Colorado. I want my employees to succeed. I've had a few leave and form their own companies, I've gave them work that I could have handled but it would have put me in a bad spot(why help your enemy?) Why? Because I was the underdog once. I want everyone to succeed. I will not say that when a couple of them left it did not hurt me. I valued them as Friends, and valued employees. But they wanted to better themselves, I support that 100%.
>>74419415
They think they'll be the new inner party.
>>74410217
Doesn't make you want to reconsider voting for Trump. Trump has been quoted as saying that wages are too high. Why would you want to support him? Foster's statement is true and it's true of capitalism in general.
>>74419722
You /cannabusiness/?
>>74419699
No there isn't.
>>74419722
this has nothing to do with what was stated
>>74419172
>Then once the bank had enough to meet demand they would just lower interest rates and people would have to find another way to store their money to avoid inflation
There's limits to this as well. If you have no chance of paying back, it doesn't matter if the interest on a loan is super low, you're not gonna take it.
It might stimulate some entrepeneurship, but the stats still say: Lower class growing, middle class shrinking, upper class growing. In the end you'll just have half of people be dirt poor with the rest ultra rich.
>then limit low skill immigration so there is greater demand for low skill labor
And finally we arrived where I wanted to. Basically globalization and technology is driving low-skill wages down or eliminating their jobs entirely. Either it's cheaper in china, or cheaper to automate. In a way, it's good for the Chinese at least as they're being lifted out of poverty, but on the other hand, poverty is growing elsewhere and rich are getting richer.
The right thing to do is as you say, limit low skill immigration and/or put tariffs on certain industries to maintain jobs and wages. Or embrace globalism but have taxation which can be used to create essentially welfare-jobs if not just handing out welfare directly.
>>74420041
No, far from it, but we build a few of the grow houses from time to time.
>>74415289
is that queen liz at the top? lol
>>74419722
>I've never owned a business but I can pretend I have on the internet
FTFY
>>74420284
Believe what you wish. I have no reason to lie.
>>74419699
>Her personal wealth is irrelevant.
My point was that if she is so concerned about the inequality stemming from the rich hoarding wealth, then she shouldn't be living in a house worth million-upon-millions of dollars in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the world.
William Blake rightly said: "He who would do good to another must do it in minute particulars. General good is the plea of the scoundrel, hypocrite and flatterer."
>>74413797
Pretty much all rich people contribute to charity though because of the tax incentives.
>>74414679
Hmm. No, pretty much everyone I've ever met who was worth more than $5mm had the majority of his or her assets in securities, business interests, and other investment assets. Above $100mm it's almost impossible *not* to. So the capital does find its way to the economy. Of course, the yield goes into further augmenting that pile; above some level (which depends on your expenses) it becomes almost self-sustaining if you don't do anything particularly stupid.
>>74412959
Said the cuck who doesn't understand inflation.
Tax capital gains the equal to or greater than the amount you tax income.
>>74415289
I'm actually in the "World Financial Control" section, personally. Speak for yourself.
>>74419699
I don't understand what you're saying. Can you explain/
>>74413805
They ARE the rich.
>>74420491
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/these-companies-have-more-money-than-they-know-what-to-do-with-2016-03-24
Also, how many billions are stored in tax havens?
>>74414418
>implying limited currency insinuates that their is limited wealth and value
>>74416227
>The bank has in principle infinite money.
INCORRECT
>>74415992
> a fucking leaf
Investment is the act of putting economic resources into productive uses in the economy. Without it, you would be Africa-- no infrastructure, no technology, just dirt and shit and disease. Ignorant piece of garbage.
>>74413427
Underrated post. Quit talking about it and just take their money. Fuck the Walton's
>>74416549
... so that they can continue to allocate resources in a sufficiently productive and hence profitable manner.... Rich people generally don't spend much of their money on themselves, in proportional terms. They spend most of their time moving it around between businesses and investments trying to maximize yield. Yield isn't a perfect proxy for productivity, but it tends to be pretty close on average.
>>74410217
The vast majority of people in civilized countries don't know what poverty really is. In America it's possible to be on food stamps and at the same time have cable TV and a smartphone.
Hell, if someone REALLY just could not find a job, they could make their way to the closest patch of undeveloped forest and live off the land.
Poor people who complain about rich people are just mad at themselves for not having the drive or the talent to make themselves rich. Fucking Jim Carrey lived with his family in a van when he was a child and now he's a millionaire.
Rich people who complain about rich people are just trying to make themselves look good to the aforementioned poor people.
>>74420489
Do you realise how fucked you are getting it up the ass? Their money makes them money, out of thin air. Steal your social security to give tax rebates to companies that make billions in profit. Free money from no risk interest. They pick how they want to donate a pittance of your money back and you thank them for it. Wage slave.
>>74421854
Looks like someone's projecting their dead end job dissatisfaction
>>74420933
Plenty. I have some pretty good tax shelters myself. So do you if you have a 401(k) or even an IRA. Tax shelters exist for people of all different incomes. If your income is low enough, you even pay negative income taxes, though you make it up in sales tax.
>>74414346
>>74414418
>Canadian economics
>>74420489
Self owned charities, not real charities.
They're not the catholic church.
>>74417345
>>74416190
It actually says a lot about a guy and his sexuality when the first thing he thinks about a banana is sucking/sexualizing it.
I mean shit, the mental gymnastics some closet skins go about to justify their selfhate homosex is palpable
"Guys smoke because the cig is phallic and the hand movement resembles a handjob. I'll just assume this true firsthand because i secretly want to suck cock so others do too."
"It ain't gay i'm the one fucking him, it's all about power, that's why my dick is consistently hard"
>>74412892
Looks nice but not that unreasonable. House I grew up in was about the same size and the lot was much larger. A lot of celebrities have far more extravagant homes.
>>74418534
The job market is zero sum from the job seeker's perspective, and the market for new products is zero sum.
>>74421017
Well, the central bank/government does, but yes, commercial banks are limited by capital and reserve requirements.
>>74414418
>The issue isn't just that wealth inequality is increasing. It's that the poor and the working class are still working but are either remaining in struggle or are actually getting poorer.
All the taxation and regulation they're under doesn't exactly help. The way you get ahead in this life is by making the most out of what you have, and a large tax burden and "socialized" services prevent you from doing that. With them you can't ration, you can't turn to competition, you can't even opt out. You have to burn your money at the government altar, even if there's a hundred times more advantageous ways for you to allocate your money.
The government will even go out of its way to stop you from getting a job. Best you can find is a $6/h job, and you're willing to take it because it's preferable to unemployment? No, you can't, that job's going to the second/third world/a robot now. Keep looking until you get a number that looks good to us, like $15, even if unemployment wrecks you in the meantime.
And god forbid you get to a place where you're financially stable, and are ready to raise your kids in a better environment than you had. That's the cue for the government to double down on burning your money.
>>74426018
>Best you can find is a $6/h job, and you're willing to take it because it's preferable to unemployment? No, you can't, that job's going to the second/third world/a robot now.
This. Socialists can't into pic related.
>>74412959
>Just because one man is rich does not make another poor.
If you take a circle of people instead of individuals it does to some degree.
I always say that people are poor by choice rather than muh 1%, but that's because it's concerned with individuals, otherwise there needs to be poor people for rich ones to exist and vice versa because simply not everyone can make it if everyone does it.
