What's the difference between sex and gender?
>>74193644
Nothing but SJW fags are pushing their stupid faggy agenda on everybody.
>>74193644
When people make up sex they go to r9k
When people make up genders they go to tumbler
>>74193644
Chromosomal Sex: Whether you have XX or XY chromosomes or something else.
Anatomical Sex: Whether you have a penis or vagina.
Assigned Sex: The doctor's classification of you as male or female when you are born, largely based on anatomical sex.
Brain Sex: Differences in brain structure, believed to be caused by sex hormones (testosterone/estrogen) during early development, which cause one to desire a male or female body (referring mainly to primary and secondary sexual characteristics). This region of the brain is believed to have low neuroplasticity, which is why attempts to alter brain sex are generally unsuccessful.
Gender Roles: Different social norms a society applies to males and females.
Gender Identity: How one sees themselves with regards to the social categories of male or female. Heavily influenced by brain sex - if you have a male brain in a female body, you're brain is telling you you should fit in to the male group, even though your body is female.
>>74193644
Nothing. The left likes to redefine words to push their agenda. Don't let them.
>>74193644
you do have a gender.
>>74194417
There's no dualism in a brain, your brain cant tell you anything, that's just you telling yourself something, and in this case it's you lying to yourself about your gender.
>>74194759
It's not a conscious though though, it's more of a compulsion as I understand it, kind of like you can't just choose to stop feeling pain.
>>74195187
*not a conscious THOUGHT though
>>74195187
I'd argue that it is, since what you tell yourself your gender is is based off of what your understanding of each gender is which you would have to consciously think about.
>>74194759
>>74195187
>There's no dualism in a brain
KEK. Maybe you shouldn't talk about shit you don't understand?
Sexually Dimorphic Brain Evidence
-McEwen BS. 1999 The molecular and neuroanatomical basis for estrogen effects in the central nervous system. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 84:1790–1797
-Simonian SX, Murray HE, Gillies GE, Herbison AE. 1998 Estrogen-dependent ontogeny of sex differences in somatostatin neurons of the hypothalamic periventricular nucleus. Endocrinology. 139:1420–1428.
-Pfaff DW. 1997 Hormones, genes, and behavior. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA. 94:14213–14216.
-Liu YC, Salamone JD, Sachs BD. 1997 Lesions in medial preoptic area and bed nucleus of stria terminalis: differential effects on copulatory behavior and noncontact erection in male rats. J Neurosci. 17:5245–5253.
-Beyer C, Hutchison JB. 1997 Androgens stimulate the morphological maturation of embryonic hypothalamic aromatase-immunoreactive neurons in the mouse. Brain Res Dev Brain Res. 98:74–81.
-Gorman DG, Cummings JL. 1992 Hypersexuality following septal injury. Arch Neurol. 49:308–310.
-Swaab DF, Fliers E. 1985 A sexually dimorphic nucleus in the human brain. Science. 228:1112–1115.
-Swaab DF, Hofman MA. 1995 Sexual differentiation of the human hypothalamus in relation to gender and sexual orientation. Trends Neurosci. 18:264–270.
-Allen LS, Gorski RA. 1992 Sexual orientation and the size of the anterior commissure in the human brain. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA. 89:7199–7202.
-LeVay S. 1991 A difference in hypothalamic structure between heterosexual and homosexual men. Science. 253:1034–1037.
-Swaab DF, Hofman MA. 1990 An enlarged suprachiasmatic nucleus in homosexual men. Brain Res. 537:141–148.
-Allen LS, Gorski RA. 1990 Sex difference in the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis of the human brain. J Comp Neurol. 302:697–706.
-Kawata M. 1995 Roles of steroid hormones and their receptors in structural organization in the nervous system.
>>74193644
There isn't one
>>74195653
Got anything on these unfortunate bastards?
>TFW no "none" box to check on forms.
Basically, if you can't figure out how this stuff works, then that eliminates you from the reproductive lottery and what we would otherwise consider to be normal society.
>>74195921
>eliminates you from reproductive lottery
Kind of like cutting ones balls off?
>>74195512
Well I mean defining it as a gender is a conscious process, but the actual sensation of wanting a vagina/boobs/dick whatever is an unconscious/subconscious thing.
>>74195857
that's mostly made up bullshit, there are 2 genders, and as per the post you replied to each have fairly differing brain structures that cause the differences in intelligence and behavior seen between the sexes.
only large and harmful mutation can cause anything else.
>>74196047
I'm not sure, but I think that might cause you to have fertility problems.
>>74193644
>that pathetic Y chromosome
You can tell this "male" is white.
>>74194557
Kekd
>>74195857
Nah. I'm an expert in neurophysiology and biological gender identity. I personally think agender is rebellion against culture, not biology.
I wont make any sweeping claims because there is still a tremendous amount of research to do but it's looking more and more that gender identity is hard wired into the brain during the intrauterine period. Everyone has a gender identity, it's the instinctual reason males understand to grab and thrust. It's just when people have in congruence between their hardwired gender identity and physical body issues arise.
I also don't think gender identity is binary. What blows me away is how so many people think biology will get it right every single time. It's a massively complex process to create a human and idiots here on /pol/ seem to think its inconceivable something could go slightly wonky.
>However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in transsexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no proof that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation. Data on genetic and hormone independent influence on gender identity are presently divergent and do not provide convincing information about the underlying etiology. To what extent fetal programming may determine sexual orientation is also a matter of discussion.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21094885
>>74196337
Turns out that's actually the important bit. It's a way to ditch a big part of the genetic inheritance that might have gotten corrupted.
So if you were to only ever have Xs, then you would wind up inheriting a bunch of genetic diseases that would ordinarily get cockblocked by having to go through a Y.
>>74194306
Top kek
>>74193644
The way they are spelt.
>>74196381
Please stop making the world too complex to fit on a bumpersticker. That doesn't work for /pol/. kthnx.
Sex is what you are
Gender is what you think you are
>>74196337
So what do you say about these women? They are XY women, not transgender people.
They are individuals born with gonadal dygenesis. Their chromosomes are XY but they are clearly female, have lived female lives, etc.
Do you realize homo sapiens have been around for 200,000 years and only in 80 of those years have we understood chromosomes to a basic level?
Why are you so arrogant to believe you understand absolutely everything about sex and gender?
>>74196381
I can see how that would explain fags but the urge to comply with social constructs such as dressing a Certain way or having long hair can't possibly be assigned in utero, right?
>>74197018
Why not? If you grow up in a society that dictates certain standards of behavior, dress and appearance for certain genders, why wouldn't you think conforming to those could be something you're predisposed to? Not to have long hair, maybe, but to conform to the gender represented in your culture as having long hair?
>>74196720
A tiny dick is little better than a clit?
Thanks, white people.
>>74196720
>posts pics of trannies
>calls them women
kill yourself anon
>>74193644
The same thing, i.e. if you have a penis or not.
>>74196337
> american """education"""
>>74197018
No and nobody claims this. There is not a biological urge to grow your hair, wear dresses, etc. Gender dysphoria is about how a transgender patient feels about THEIR body. If their gender identity is female, clearly they want to be seen how they feel internally. We determine external gender via gender markers. Social gender markers = mannerisms, clothes. This is the aspect of it that is a social construction.
Gender roles ARE social constructions and they vary between cultures. That's why transgender women from different cultures often take on the mantle of their preferred gender role in ways that reflect their cultures expectations.
>>74197305
Those aren't trannies you fucking idiot. They have both male and female genital content. They do not produce testosterone naturally. They have XY chromosomes. They have been raised from birth as female.
They are intersex.
>>74194417
>brain sex
>if you have a male brain in a female body, you're brain is telling you you should fit in to the male group, even though your body is female.
WhatinGod'scock.jpeg
>>74196720
>Posts people with extremely rare genetic disorders
>Thinks their existence changes anything
If I was born with 1 arm, does that mean that it's natural for people to only have 1 arm? Or are you just going to rationalize it and say that biology is not perfect and things can go wrong during development. Stop being delusional.
>>74197669
>intersex
Stahp it we're going to run out of words at this rate.
It's not sustainable!
>>74197550
>Gender roles ARE social constructions and they vary between cultures.
Barely. There tends to be a biological imperative in how either sex acts instinctually that isn't based on societal expectations -- hunting, gathering, caring of offspring, etc. etc.
Eitherway, transgenders seem to fetishize the opposite sex as they have an ideal of what a "real" woman looks like and pursue it.
>>74193644
Sex is biological
Gender is the behavioral consequences of your biology
>>74197669
>born with body opposite of chromosomes.
So those are like actual, legit people that need treatment rather than 99% of delusion fags like Bruce Jenner, jazz, etc? I'm starting to understand now I think.
>>74197849
>If I was born with 1 arm, does that mean that it's natural for people to only have 1 arm?
Uh yeah man, that's the definition of natural. It happened by nature. How fucking stupid are you?
You realize like 1/200 people are born with some form of intersexuality right? It's a comparable rate to blindness yet we completely cater to blind people and nobody throws a tantrum.
>>74197875
Sorry, I guess reality is too nuanced and it triggers the cucks.
>>74193644
sex is penor into vagoo and gender is the state of being male or female
>>74194306
spbp
>>74193644
>74193644
Just human sophistry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYuSHz7uOv4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxMkMBXAVZ8
http://pastebin.com/xMQ9wAwW
Do you know how much badly you've lost when you're at the point where you need to compare size... Of chromosome...
>>74198109
Nuance is how to get sexytimes with a lady.
I don't know what definition of nuance you're using. I suspect you have your own nuance identity or some such thing. I don't think it's very nuanced.
>>74194306
That's a fine difference to me.
>>74193644
There is no difference, both are Genetic and there are only 2
>>74197948
Completely. There IS a biological imperative between the genders otherwise our genes would never succeed and pass on.
I think your view of transgender people is incredibly naive. I am an endocrinologist and I have several transgender patients. I hope you are not confusing cross dressers with transgender people. I find most of patients aren't hyper sexual at all.
Transgender people wish to alter their external appearance in order for society to perceive them as they feel internally. Society determines how you are gendered based on your relationship to the gender roles and cues in our culture.
>>74198018
Yeah basically. But research shows us the same type of physiological intersexuality is happening in the brains of transgender people. Transgender people are a form of neurological intersex.
>>74198401
>Sees that file name
There shouldn't be a difference but unfortunately, CURRENT YEAR likes redefining shit.
>>74193644
There is none.
>>74195653
>mismatched blood sex with brain sex
I will never believe this is a healthy, encourageable, or even TOLERABLE phenomena
This needs to be violently PURGED from the West before it even does more damage
What a fucking disgusting abomination, and we're seeing kids "developing" it today
>>74198503
>in order for society to perceive them as they feel internally
I'm not sure that's a sexual thing so much as somebody who needs to get told to check xis privilege.
No amount of mutilation is going to give such a person the power to control my perception.
>>74198503
>Transgender people are a form of neurological intersex.
That gonadal dygenesis is an interesting disorder. Is there a specific term for the disorder you're applying to transgender people in that example?
>>74198861
child abuse. The poor kid will probably not see HIS 18th birthday.
>>74197836
Yes, that's basically how it works. It may seem weird, but there's enough differences between male and female bodies that the brain has to have different "firmware" to control them. Unfortunately, sometimes you get the wrong version, and it's stored in the equivalent of a read-only partition so there isn't much you can do about it.
>>74197849
It is by definition natural. That doesn't mean it's the norm, but we just have to accept that unusual variation does occur in biology. Very few things are perfect/absolute in nature.
>>74198861
>this isn't a healthy phenomena
Says the guy who thinks it's okay to murder people he considers weird.
>>74199133
I'm generally a peaceful guy, but it makes my blood fucking boil
>>74199133
Sounds like it's just talking about how he presents himself, rather than any kind of medical gender transition. Pretty much the worst that can come out of it is humiliation.
>>74199235
Ever heard of how healthy Spartans were?
>>74198712
I mean.... you're literally just wrong.
>>74198861
>13 billion year old universe
>Everything is made of subatomic particles
>100,000,000,000 homo sapeins have existed so far
>Every single human has had a different perspective
>Humans are bags of meat animated by electrical charges
>Humans have existed for 1/70,000 of the universe
>You're not allowed to wear fabrics associated with the female sex.
Okay faggot, stfu.
>>74198968
Except it does work. I guarantee you have passed many transgender people in your life and never batted an eye. That's why they are called passing transgender people, they pass.
It's pretty simple DESU.
>>74199002
Gonadal dygenesis is fascinating and is one of the many types of physical intersexuality that exists.
>Is there a specific term for the disorder you're applying to transgender people in that example?
What do you mean?
>>74199404
I honestly believe you deserve to die
>>74199317
Its still child abuse
>>74194417
Your brain does not grow according to sex hormones. Those arnt there pre puberty and male and female brains are different pre puberty. Its not down to hormones. Hormones are a factor but a small one.
>>74199404
>they pass
So do normal heterosexual people. What you've done is irreversible physical damage to a person by treating symptoms alone, quite in keeping with modern medical doctrine.
You should stand trial for each and every case. Guilty or not guilty is not my call. But you should stand trial.
>>74199534
And that's just your belief. It has no meaning in reality. I mean I can believe vomiting into a lampshade will make me immortal, but that doesn't mean it actually will.
>it's an immovable force approaches an immovable object thread
>>74195857
Can we just gas these mutants?
>>74199634
I have saved lives treating transgender people. This is a fact.
>>74199534
Yet transgender people are the ones with a mental illness?
>13 billion year old universe
>Everything is made of subatomic particles
>100,000,000,000 homo sapeins have existed so far
>Every single human has had a different perspective
>Humans are bags of meat animated by electrical charges
>Humans have existed for 1/70,000 of the universe
Yet you want to actually kill someone for thinking differently than you? Haha, but trannies are the mentally ill ones, right?
>>74199649
That's just how I feel. Please seriously consider killing yourself
Calmly and rationally and unemotionally asses this choice and please don't ever rule out doing it
>>74199569
Not really, it's just letting the child dress and call himself what he wants within acceptable standards. I think even children should have freedom of expression, again within acceptable standards. I mean going to school naked would be one thing, but as far as I'm concerned, if it's okay for a girl to do it, it should be okay for a boy to do it too.
>>74199576
Even if I were to accept the premise that sex differentiation of the brain did not occur until puberty, what would cause it if not hormones? Hormones pretty much drive all sex differentiation? And don't say genetics, because hormones are controlled by genetics in the first place. They're HOW the genetics control the development of the body, it's not like they're two separate things.
>>74199634
There really isn't any way to treat anything but the symptoms. The kind of brain surgery required to actually fix the underlying cause is almost guaranteed to kill the patient. We just don't have the technology to do that yet. So the only reasonable option is to treat the symptoms.
>>74199815
>I have saved lives treating transgender people. This is a fact.
Then there should be no problem facing a fair trial in those cases.
I assume you've taken the Hippocratic Oath. As long as you haven't violated it, then probably you have nothing to worry about. Although I'd rather put it up to a jury trial before anything irreversible is carried out.
>>74199815
If only you'd just keep your thoughts to yourself
But your psychosocially unhealthy thoughts affect the world around you
>>74199151
>you get the wrong version
>>74199902
>Calmly and rationally and unemotionally asses this choice and please don't ever rule out doing it
Says the individual who consciously ignores the piles of empirical evidence that show:
1. Transgender people have a real physical condition
2. Sexual dimorphism in the brain exists
3. Transgender people are objectively better off transitioning.
4. Gender variant people have existed in nearly every culture as long as humans have lived.
>>74199999
Nice quints, but once upon a time lobotomy was viewed as the brain surgery to actually fix something. There was even a lobotomobile.
Once upon a time, the fix was to say, "shit sucks kid, deal with it."
>>74200068
>But your psychosocially unhealthy thoughts affect the world around you
Says the person that literally wants to kill other people for having a different perspective than him.
You are mentally ill and have a severe victim complex.
>>74199815
>mentally ill freaks are okay, because...
>...b-because did you know that the universe is very old?
>>74199815
>>74199999
This transgender bullshit is nothing more that wanting to be a special snowflake and get attention. It is selfish self absorbed behavior. You are choosing to walk away from God, may He have mercy on your soul.
>>74200207
>Says the person that literally wants to kill other people
I don't want to kill you. I just honestly believe you deserve to die. That's just how I truly and absolutely feel
>for having a different perspective than him.
Already said: "your psychosocially unhealthy thoughts affect the world around you"
>>74200242
Transgender people are not mentally ill. They are not deluded. They understand their birth sex, if they didn't they wouldn't be transgender. They have no delusion or false pretense about what they are.
Calling transgender people mentally ill is like saying balding is a mental illness. Over half of white males that bald experience depression and anxiety. So does that mean balding is a mental illness? No. Balding is a physical illness that often causes mental illness.
>>74200025
The Hippocratic Oath demands the treatment of transgender people. Sometimes it's simply not possible to cure a condition, and the best way to minimize harm is to address the symptoms.
>>74200075
Yes, biology isn't perfect. It's not that different than people being born with physical birth defects really.
>>74200126
And, with the information available at the time, those were the best treatments available. Even if you went back in time and told them people in the future would consider them barbaric, they'd still be the best option. At best, it would encourage them to accelerate their research into a better alternative. But until such an alternative actually is available, you have to go with what's available.
>>74200093
How does that observational evidence annul what I said here >>74198861
>>74200280
So NPR was pushing this shit hardcore every hour 20x an hour while I was stuck in a car the other day. And Jewbert Seigjew was interviewing this "female" who explained quite clearly that it was "her" mission to force everybody in the school to accept her point of view down to a lawsuit, and that it was unacceptable that anybody would not do exactly as she wanted. Jewbert said, "but isn't that hypocritical?" And "she" said "no." And Jewbert said, "I understand!"
And then he proceeded to grill and put words into the mouth of a governor who happened to want to say, "now wait a minute let's try to have a balanced approach here."
I love NPR so much.
>>74193644
>What's the difference between sex and gender?
None. There is no use for a definition of "woman" if a long haired manly man in a dress fits it. Want to have long hair, wear a dress, take hormones and have sex with men? I'm ok with that, but you're still a man, not a woman. Otherwise tell me what is the tumblr definition of "woman" or "man".
>>74193644
>you will never be a full male (YY)
>you will always be a half male (XY)
its not fair bros
we need to somehow get rid of that X
>>74200126
Now that you mention it, what does a (prefrontal) lobotomy DO to a person anyways? Does it literally make you a drooling vegetable bound to a chair forever, like those Zika babies born without brains? If so it's just bizarre to imagine anything that horrible could ever gain acceptance in the first world.
I'm only familiar with the practice from horror and sci-fi literature, someone pls explain.
>>74200280
God made trans people this way. And God helps those who help themselves. If you refuse to make use of the abilities God gives you, you are disrespecting Him. It makes you the equivalent of an able-bodied 30 old man who demands that his parents literally spoon-feed him.
>>74200280
>God
You lost ANY shred of credibility here. God was created and written down in books thousands of years ago by men. I believe in empiricism and rationality.
Faith is irrational. Faith spits in the face of empiricism.
Your religion is just that. YOUR religion. Now there are 7.5 billion other humans breathing as I type this. Why is your completely unsubstantiated claim with zero evidence more important?
>>74194417
Sex is the core term, being divided into subgroups such as chromosomal and anatomical.
There's no such thing as assigned sex.
Hormones do not decide gender.
Hormones influence behavior, especially reproductive behavior.
There's your whole argument out the window.
Funny how you acknowledge the term "Gender Roles" but still believe gender is different than sex.
Gender is simply the politically correct term for sex, as the slang terminology for sex has been favored over its literal terminology.
>>74200475
men with full head of hair that state they 'feel' bald and need special treatment from everyone else would be a mental illness.
>>74193644
Gender is derived from a person's biological sex.
>>74193644
>implying that all genes on both X chromosomes are necessarily homozygous
i'm triggered
>>74200535
All you said there was that you're too narrow-minded to think logically and that you think people should be killed for being different from you. That doesn't even remotely come close to being adequate for refuting the logical arguments in favor of providing appropriate medical treatment for transgender people.
>>74200492
>being this delusional
>>>>>>>>>>/dumblr/
>>74200642
In many cases, such as in the case of Rose Kennedy, yes. She was the brother of JFK that the family tried to hide, and it was performed by Mr. Lobotomy himself.
There's an interesting book called, "My Lobotomy" by a guy who had it done to him at the age of 12 and happened to have been young enough that his brain was able to adapt around the brain damage. There's even a neat picture of him with icepicks sticking out of his head during the procedure. It's a short an interesting read.
It's truly horrifying what medicine allows sometimes in the course of trying to treat the symptoms. There is some discourse about this in there as well.
>>74200664
The answer to how we got in this mess in a single post.
>>74193644
Sex = male/female
Gender = masculine/feminine behaviour.
All the fuck heads in this thread saying they are the same thing are the reason people think 'changing your gender' means getting a sex change.
Their stupidity is the problem. You CAN change your behaviour, you CAN NOT change your sex.
>>74196381
Wow it sounds like a sjw professor let out a huge load in your voicebox and you wrote all that while gurgling it. Textbook example on how some faggot reads some shit in a book or paper and all of a sudden thinks he's found the great book of answers. No proof environment has an effect on a young person's sexuality? Holy fuck are you willingly ignorant? Sure it may not change the genome but it sure as fuck fragments the mind, which is 90% of these spergs dilemma. Sure put 3 year old Billy in a beauty pageant you sick fucks, I'm sure he'll realize hes a girl in a boys body in no time.
>>74200678
>There's no such thing as assigned sex.
Yes there is. If your chromosomal and anatomical sexes "disagree" (e.g. you're born XX with a penis), the doctor has to pick one (or intersex) to classify you as. Assigned sex isn't a concrete biological reality, rather it's a simplified category you're sorted into based on the concrete biological realities of sex differentiation.
>Funny how you acknowledge the term "Gender Roles" but still believe gender is different than sex.
So you think gender roles are the same thing as sex? That seems pretty absurd to me, how is wearing a dress controlled by chromosomes?
>>74200719
They'd only be mentally ill because they're demanding medical attention for something trivial. They could easily shave their head without having to get a doctor involved.
>>74200829
Not an argument.
>>74193644
Spelling.
>>74200475
>Transgender people are not mentally ill.
who cares if:
>not understanding the consequences
>not accepting statistics
>finally, not accepting reality
is literally the definition of a mental illness?
>Calling transgender people mentally ill is like saying false analogy will win me an argument
yeah yeah
keep making your shekel off poor sick freaks.
I won't judge, promise.
>>74200093
1. Transgender people have a chemical imbalance, so technically yes it can be physical.
2. Sexual dimorphism does not mean "having the wrong body". Whatever doctor or scientists that adopted such lunacy deserves their credibility shot.
3. They aren't. This is the multi-million dollar industry telling people it is.
4. They were all mentally ill, likely inbred.
>>74200844
>mfw reading the Rosemary Kennedy wiki article
Th-thanks anon. I'm glad I know, even though I feel monstrously ill now.
>>74201085
>biology isn't perfect
>therefore we can enable mental illnesses
>>>>>>>>>>/dumblr/
>>74201040
No the doctor doesn't pick one. That doctor would be filed for malpractice.
Yes roles are fabrications, but gender is not.
Don't try to twist words with me, child.
>>74201104
Is there a clinical definition of chemical balance? If not, how do you identify, let alone rectify, an imbalance?
>>74201004
>I'm sure he'll realize hes a girl in a boys body in no time.
This isn't true though. This was David Reimer. He was born along with a twin brother. They both got circumcised but Davids circumcision went horribly wrong. A psychologist by the name of John Money, believed that gender was learned and though that they could just give the 22 month old a sexual reassignment and raise him as a girl.
He was raised as a girl but always tended to lean towards being masculine. Eventually David found out and tried to live as a man but he never had his man parts so he killed himself.
The doctor, John Money, forced him into sexually submissive positions when he was a toddler. This went on for years.
You can not force someone to be a gender they are not. Gender is hard wired in the brain. Look at femboys who do HRT to look more feminine, once they grow boobs the vast majority of them start to experience body dysphoria.
>>74201104
>Sexual dimorphism does not mean "having the wrong body".
Of course it doesn't. But the phenomena of "having the wrong body" arises when something goes wrong with the process of sexual dimorphism. Your end up with a masculine brain and a feminine body, or vice versa. Neither, by itself, is objectively "wrong", however the narrative of "having the wrong body" arose because it's actually easier to modify the gender of the body (at least enough to "fool" the brain) than it is to modify the gender of the brain.
>>74196049
I'm a man and I want boobs and vagina.
Like, all the time, too.
ALL THE TIME.
>>74201104
>3. They aren't. This is the multi-million dollar industry telling people it is.
Idiot:
>Heylans et al., 2014: "A difference in SCL-90 [a test of distress, anxiety, and hostility] overall psychoneurotic distress was observed at the different points of assessments (P = 0.003), with the most prominent decrease occurring after the initiation of hormone therapy (P < 0.001)...Furthermore, the SCL-90 scores resembled those of a general population after hormone therapy was initiated."
>Colizzi et al., 2013: "At enrollment, transsexuals reported elevated CAR ['cortisol awakening response', a physiological measure of stress]; their values were out of normal. They expressed higher perceived stress and more attachment insecurity, with respect to normative sample data. When treated with hormone therapy [at followup, 1 year after beginning HRT], transsexuals reported significantly lower CAR (P < 0.001), falling within the normal range for cortisol levels. Treated transsexuals showed also lower perceived stress (P < 0.001), with levels similar to normative samples."
>Gomez-Gil et al., 2012: "SADS, HAD-A, and HAD-Depression (HAD-D) mean scores [these are tests of depression and anxiety] were significantly higher among patients who had not begun cross-sex hormonal treatment compared with patients in hormonal treatment (F=4.362, p=.038; F=14.589, p=.001; F=9.523, p=.002 respectively). Similarly, current symptoms of anxiety and depression were present in a significantly higher percentage of untreated patients than in treated patients (61% vs. 33% and 31% vs. 8% respectively)."
>de Vries, et al., 2014 studied 55 trans teens from the onset of treatment in their early teenage years through a follow-up an average of 7 years later. They found no negative outcomes, no regrets, and in fact their group was slightly mentally healthier than controls.
>>74193644
Sex = XY/XX
Gender = masculine/feminine
Gender used to purely be associated with language, French being a prime example (brunette is female as brunet is male), but now a days it seems like somehow gender has moved from describing language to describing "mental" sex.
Gender in 2016 basically means feminine penis or masculine vagina
>>74201247
Nope, it's not "enabling", it's finding the best way to minimize harm to the patient in accordance with the Hippocratic Oath.
>>74201321
>No the doctor doesn't pick one. That doctor would be filed for malpractice.
When I say "pick one", I don't mean that they do so arbitrarily, I mean they look at the primary sex characteristics and use that to decide whether to say "it's a boy" or "it's a girl".
>>74201428
Do you mean on your own body? Or is it perhaps a misplaced desire for a sexual partner (the autogynephilia hypothesis)?
>>74200808
>That isn't adequate for refuting the logical arguments in favor of providing appropriate medical treatment for transgender people.
When were we talking about treatment? We were mostly talking about diagnosis
You said something about "brain sex". In the article I've linked you to, the method of diagnosis for the 5 year old's sexual identity delusion was, and I quote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3436897/Boy-aged-five-returns-classes-girl-one-youngest-gender-transition-cases-UK.html
>The 32-year-old was bathing then three-year-old Daniel, who is now Danni, when he said he wanted to cut off his penis so he could be a girl.
>It led to his parents making the difficult decision to allow Daniel to become Danni, in what is believed to be the UK's youngest case of a child wanting to change sex.
Do you consider this a valid method of diagnosis you absolute worthless cunt?
>>74201588
>Hippocratic oath
>is the new way to defend mental illness on a large scale
How pathetic can you get? Go back.
>>74201473
Link your sources, don't copypaste them.
Those studies do not correlate proper treatment of transsexuals. It simply aggregates positive recipients as "favorable outcome".
Again, multi-million dollar industry.
There's no money in properly treating an outlier, only glorifying it.
>>74201503
It's the forced transition from objectivity to subjectivity. Some people would call that psychological warfare. Or maybe some would cite the Frankfurt School, or Wilhelm Wunt, or Edward Bernays, or Mengele, or Goebbels, literally Hitler, etc. Maybe even Based Yuri?
There's an interesting discourse on this to be found in a book, "The Man who Tasted Shapes" by Robert Cytowic, who was a pioneer in researching synesthesia. It even includes Greek philosophy and modern Christian theology.
>>74193644
There's isn't one and you can't prove with scientific studies there is one. Hence its all based on feelings.
>>74200025
>need operation
>required to obtain legal permission from several strangers first
Eugh. Don't want to live in that dystopian nightmare.
>>74201503
>Sex = XY/XX
>Gender = masculine/feminine
And this is what I don't get. The definition of woman I get from google:
>an adult human female.
And the definition of female:
>of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) that can be fertilized by male gametes.
So why can a man in a dress call himself a woman when he doesn't fit the definition? Because he does things the society decides a woman should do and looks like a woman? Isn't that what movements like feminism have been fighting against by telling us that women can do the same things as men and vice-versa? So shouldn't the left be against trans people reinforcing stereotypes? Yet they love it? Shit makes no sense.
>>74202011
If you need an operation then you need an operation.
If you're so messed up you can't figure out whether or not to chop your dick off or fuck up your endocrine system for not apparent reason other than that you want to be an IRL furry, then, well, maybe we should think about that a little bit first.
>>74201814
>Again, multi-million dollar industry.
FUCKING LOL. I am an endocrinologist. You are a fucking IDIOT if you think this is true. HRT is some of the most inexpensive treatment there is. Spiro costs pennies.
>Link your sources, don't copypaste them.
Why? Are you too brain dead to just copy the article title and go find it?
>http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jsm.12363/abstract
>http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jsm.12155/abstract
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21937168
>http://www.gires.org.uk/assets/Medpro-Assets/trans_mh_study.pdf
>http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958.abstract
>http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1024086814364
Every single piece of research that has looked at mental health of those that transition indicates the same thing: improvements across the board. In controls where transgender people are matched with the average sample population in terms of support network (generally accepting family etc) transgender people show equal if not more positive mental heath than the control.
inb4 incredibly warped interpretation of Dhejne's great work.
>>74193644
MALE FEMALE AND MENTAL DISORDERS
>>74193644
>Female
>Both X chromosomes full sized assumedly post birth
Laughing geneticist.jpg
>>74202085
I'm screencapping what you just said you absolutely beautiful nigger
>>74195653
Posting research from 90's
My friend, at least update your sources to 2000's if you want to impress someone.
>>74202212
>HRT is some of the most inexpensive treatment there is.
I guess it still must be more expensive than no treatment at all, especially since I can't order juice over Amazon and have a drone deliver it to my doorstep.
What if I self-idenfity as a child even though I'm an adult? Will insurance cover my "flu shots?"
>>74202283
Like these?
>Bao, Hahn, Kranz, Kaufmann "Structural Connectivity Networks of Transgender People". 94 subjects, 23 FtM, 21 MtF, 25 cisFemale, 25 cisMale: average age 26. Transsexual subjects did not fulfill criteria for current comorbidities but 9 reported history of depression (n = 2), specific phobias (n = 3), obsessive compulsive disorder (n = 1), anorexia nervosa (n = 2), and substance abuse (n = 4). All patients reported subjective feelings to belong to the other gender before or at puberty. Investigating structural networks in female-to-male and male-to-female transsexuals, we observed differences in hemispheric and lobar connectivity as well as local efficiencies when compared with healthy controls.
>Yokota, Y. et al “Callosal Shapes at the Midsagittal Plane: MRI Differences of Normal Males, Normal Females, and GID”. An MRI study of 22 transwomen and 28 transmen examined the shape of the corpus callosum in the brain at a specific cross-sectional plane, and compared this shape with that observed in 211 XY karyotype males and 211 XX karyotype females. Their results demonstrated that not only could the sex of the patient be determined with 74% accuracy from the MRI picture, but the shapes of the brains in the transsexuals strongly reflected their gender, and not their biological sex
>Zubiaurre “Cortical Thickness in Untreated Transsexuals”. A 2012 study examined cortical thickness in the brain between 29 XY ktype males, 23 XX ktype females, 24 transmen, and 18 transwomen. None of the transsexual subjects had received any hormone treatment prior to the study. Using an MRI, the researchers found that the transwomen had more cortical thickness than the XY males in three regions of the brain. The transmen showed evidence of masculinization of their grey matter. In all transsexuals, the key differences from their biological sex were found in the right hemisphere. Graphed, transpeople statistically fell in the middle between the XX and XY kary
>>74202212
>wow a mentally deranged fuck with idea fix stabilizes as long as we feed that idea
>that means we are really smart and we help people
>>74199404
If gonadal dygenesis caused those men to appear female from birth which other mental illnesses are responsible for trannies in general?
I saw that one was rare. 1:2-7000.
>I don't even know what that ratio means.
>>74202364
But you can you fucking moron. This is a massive issue I have with my patients. The majority of transgender people can't find treatment in our current medical system so they just illegally order their drugs online from pharmacies that don't require prescriptions.
Once again, you are completely wrong.
>>74202596
>The majority of transgender people
Where exactly did these people come from and why haven't we heard of them before?
>>74201708
Again, to the best of my knowledge the most "transition" means at this point in the child's life is wearing different clothes and going by a different nickname. So it's basically a non-medical solution. When they start going on blockers/hormones, then a more formal diagnosis is called for.
>>74201769
If you would reject a treatment that minimizes harm to patients merely because you find it disagreeable, you're missing the whole point of the Hippocratic Oath.
>>74202215
Most intersex conditions don't have a mental component. At least not directly, they may develop mental issues from struggling to find out what gender they are.
>>74202364
If you're diagnosed with age identity disorder, and you're lucky enough to live in an area where insurance companies acknowledge the legitimacy of transage people, then yes.
>>74202212
1. You're financially retarded.
2. Thanks for doing what you're told, sperg.
3. It is incredibly warped to believe unnecessarily mutilating someone's body is the proper form of treatment, as it is purely cosmetic and financially driven.
My core statement--
>>Those studies do not correlate proper treatment of transsexuals. It simply aggregates positive recipients as "favorable outcome".
--remains unrefuted.
It is not proper treatment. It's favorable.
>>74202497
>I saw that one was rare. 1:2-7000.
>>I don't even know what that ratio means.
I think they mean a range of 1 in 2000 to a range of 1 in 7000.
>>74193644
>What's the difference between sex and gender?
Nothing!
Nothing!
Nothing!
>>74202919
>3. It is incredibly warped to believe unnecessarily mutilating someone's body is the proper form of treatment, as it is purely cosmetic and financially driven.
It's the proper form of treatment insofar as being what currently works the best. That's literally the ONLY criteria in determining what the proper treatment for a medical condition is.
>>74202984
I think it might be similar to the chances that a terrorist might be under your bed, so you'd better fund the TSA so your women and children can get groped for your own safety.
It could also perhaps refer to the possibility that 12 Muslims from a cave being run by a CIA asset carefully melted steel beams with jet fuel, and even caused building 7 to come down because it got knocked with a chunk of some other building and and office fire (probably offices full of jet fuel no doubt.)
>>74202470
>Like these?
What do you want to tell us with this hate science?
Everybody knows by now that there is no difference between men and women. The only difference is in upbringing. Let a "girl" play with cars and "she" will become as male as a "men".
Where have you been the last 20 years?
You can be whatever you choose, there are no brain difference!
Oh wait... did "progressive" science flipped once again and I missed it?
>>74203198
>Everybody knows by now that there is no difference between men and women. The only difference is in upbringing. Let a "girl" play with cars and "she" will become as male as a "men".
Then explain David Reimer?
>>74203198
So I guess you've never had a boy or a girl in your family before.
>>74197669
having both is not normal anon..go back to school
Everything I'm seeing seems to indicate the vast majority of trannies simply experience "Transvestic fetishism".
I suspect this is what all those trap lovers in /b/ are about where they just allow a sexual fetish to control their lives.
>>74204024
Oh and this, turns out 47% of them are pedophiles! Let's let them in the little girls room.
>>74202085
The "Left" in USA (and I'm sure around the world) do not use logic, and if they try to use logic, they simply replace logic with their own version of "logic". In other words, the left does not like logic, and does everything to get rid of it. Freedom is slavery, war is peace, and ignorance is strength.
This is how I believe the Left goes about themselves:
>find a minority/ "the little guy"
>inflate the minority to extreme proportions, to make it seem like 1/4 of all persons is one of these "minorities"
>tell the minority what they should demand, and give the minority the tools to spread the message
>anyone who disagrees with the minority is demonized much like in a military campaign with the enemy (anyone who dislikes gay marriage wants to kill gay people/anyone who isn't with us is pure evil)
>the propaganda continues until at the least, compromise is achieved, or at the most, all demands of the minority are met and then some more on top (affirmative action is a great example, and perhaps in the future, Reparations as well)
>the ultimate goal is to rock the boat of society so hard that it either sinks or cracks apart
>the rewards of achieving this goal, and all the sub goals, is political power (see Clintons, and any other persons who made money in politics)
It is all a massive scheme to exploit minorities for political power.
>>74204230
>>74204024
You are literally a fucking idiot. The definition of transvestic fetishist means they don't identify as a woman. These people aren't transgender. They will never be treated medically the same as transgender people.
I work with transgender patients, you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Keep being a blue pilled little faggot.
Im saving up money to chop my hands and feet off so i can attach prosthetic hoofs, then chop my dick off and sew it to my forehead because i sexually identify as a unicorn.
>>74193644
Can't wait until total sex change is possible.
>>74204342
What the hell, man? We've been having a perfectly civil discussion with me asking you questions and the second I post something you disagree with you insult me? I'm using your sources.
>>74204230
It doesn't say that though. It just says a group of 118 men includes 55 pedophiles and 34 transvestites. 55 + 34 is only 89, so that's not even proof that there's even 1 transvestite pedophile in the group. Of course there could be, and it's also possible that all 34 transvestites were also in the pedophile group, but the statistics don't give us enough to say one way or the other.
>>74204024
This.
A very small percentage of "trans" people are simply bandwagon faggots, who want nothing more than attention, so they mutilate themselves and the commit suicide once they realize what they've done.
People who actually have the mental disorder of dysphoria tend to be some of the people who know that no mutilation will ever make them the opposite sex.
>>74193644
Nothing.
>>74204587
I already spoke out in this thread about agender, and all the tumblr genders. You aren't using my definitions or research at all. You are just being blue pilled little cuck who refuses to acknowledge empiricism.
pic related
>>74204748
*A very large percentage
>>74200093
>3. Transgender people are objectively better off transitioning.
>let mentally ill person deform and abuse their own body so they become the opposite sex
>transition over years
>mentally ill person gets a moment of clairvoyance and realise what weird-ass shit they pulled off.
>commit suicide
>blame society
>>74195653
found the hideous tranny
>>74204860
Can you suggest a better treatment? One that hasn't been already proved less effective than gender transition?
>>74204963
Not an argument.
>>74205088
Teaching them how to cope via therapy until medical science has advanced to the point that they don't mutilate themselves and render themselves worthless?
>>74204795
I'm still curious how gonadal dygenesis, a disorder where men are born looking female relates to the stereotypical tranny.
Because most of them certainly don't have that, so what is the cause of their body dysphoria?
>I just pulled a random image from my trans folder. No offense...
>>74205088
You really need to get arrested and put on trial to get that answered.
Once upon a time you might have been institutionalized and issued a daily dose of thorazine.
>>74205206
Has that been shown to be at least as effective in improving their mental health as gender transition is? If not, it's not logical to switch to that (except as small-scale experimentation) until it is shown to be that effective.
>>74205392
How do you measure mental health?
This is a serious question. Evaluation metrics are important to my line of work.
>>74205392
Anyone who can't hold it out until medical science progresses to the point that trannies can actually do something with themselves is merely jumping on the bandwagon.
My question is, why do you care so much about what someone else does that doesn't affect you personally?
>>74205788
its affecting the moral fiber of society...we need to purge heretics not enable them
>>74205498
Suicide rates are one possible statistic you can look at.
>>74205693
We currently have a treatment that helps. And there's no reason why we can't switch to a better one if it comes along. But it's overly optimistic to say we'll have that magical cure within the next few decades, and we're morally obligated to offer people a treatment that we actually have now, even if it isn't perfect.
>>74205788
With such a high rate of suicide, STD's, etc. it effects all of us in one way or another.
>>74196720
It's strange that I've never seen trannies with these birth defects. That certainly can't be a common trait in trannies, right?
>>74206159
>Suicide rates are one possible statistic you can look at.
Then this should be publicized at the fore of the transgender movement, not "muh feelings."
Sex defines two things, if you are male or female,
Gender defines two things
if you are sane or insane
>>74196720
Why do trans activist like to mention intersex people so much for proof that their mental illness is valid like intersex people have anything to do with them? The majority of trannies are normal men/women with no chromosomal abnormalities. Most people who are intersex or have abnormal chromosomes discover this when they learn they are infertile. Not because they "feel" like the other gender.
>>74206167
>>74205228
No, you don't understand. This is a type of intersex. There are many types of intersex.
I'm arguing transgender patients are the same type of issue that these people have: an intersex condition.
>It's strange that I've never seen trannies with these birth defects
Well, your frame of reference is pretty narrow. One of my patients right now was born intersex. There is a pretty high concordance between intersex conditions and transexuality:
>Boys with an XY karyotype who are born with a cloacal exstrophy (where they are either partly or completely missing a penis) are typically changed surgically into “girls” just after birth, and are given female hormone therapy and counseling. However, about half of these new girls later determine that they are really boys, and change their social gender when they become teenagers or adults. (Bao, Gooren 2006)
But you are missing what I am saying. I'm saying transgender people are the same type of condition, a physical intersex condition. It just so happens the physical intersexuality occurs in the brain, not the genitals.
>>74206385
They don't cite intersex people as proof that being trans is valid. Rather, they cite intersex people to show that nature does "make mistakes" and the sexual differentiation process doesn't always go the way people expect. If it's possible for someone to be born with XX chromosomes and male genitalia, it doesn't seem so weird for someone to be born with XX chromosomes and a male brain.
>>74205788
These people are defining themselves by their sexuality while at the same time trying to standout. They are the same reason furries were always hated on the internet, they had to constantly define themselves by their sexual fetish and rub it in everybody's faces.
Trans people do this as well. When a biological born male thinks "hmmm, I feel I should have been a woman" what that really means is he is attracted to men, hes just gay.
There is no way a person can be nude, look at their dick in the mirror and think "yeah I'm a woman for sure". Even if they did, no amount of surgery and hormones can change the fact he was born a man and always will be.
I personally don't like it when people try and change their sex because they are 99% of the time unhappy and regret it. They don't go from man to woman, they go from man to abomination.
>>74206385
Because gender identity is biologically hardwired. Look earlier in this thread, I posted 40+ sources about the proof of sexual dimorphism in the brain, neurology of transgender individuals, and developmental research.
Transgender people ARE intersex, it's just not an immediately visible form of intersexuality. Not all forms of intersexuality is visible either. Many people live their whole lives and find out they were born intersex later on.
>>74206615
>When a biological born male thinks "hmmm, I feel I should have been a woman" what that really means is he is attracted to men, hes just gay.
Incorrect. Gender identity isn't the same as sexual orientation. Not every biological male who identifies as a woman is attracted to men.
>>74206534
Is this defined in the DSM somewhere? Please provide citations.
>>74206534
>A kind of intersex that effects only the brain and not the body.
Exactly. THAT is the condition I am seeking out as an explanation as well. So what is this conditions name, if it does in fact exist?
>>74206615
>sexuality
Being transgender is not a sexuality you fucking negroid.
>>74206615
Honestly, anyone who's actually trans and isn't just jumping on the bandwagon should devote themselves to the sciences, and make it their goal to achieve what they want in a way that actually works.
It's both a coping mechanism and something that might actually produce results.
>>74193644
Sex is biological and genetically determined. Gender is sociological and socially determined.
>>74206983
Or... They could just ignore all the people that hate them like /pol/, transition and continue their life normally?
Jesus christ /pol/ is so fucking stupid when it comes to trannys. I'm almost confident 99% of you have never even had a conversation with an actual transgender person and base your entire assumptions on memes you've learned from your computer.
I'm an actual doctor and I have real human patients.
>>74207578
>99% of you have never even had a conversation with an actual transgender person
How would we know? Isn't that the point anyway?
>>74206167
But here's the thing, if people don't like them i.e. the people who disparage them, then why do they give a shit about suicide? Not only that but males and females alike BOTH get STD's and not just from gay sex, so again I'm questioning why you care if you don't like them.
>>74207578
Why would you not encourage them to pursue the sciences?
If they actually have the mental illness and want to be the other sex so badly that they would be willing to do anything, not only would working to find something that would actually allow them to change sexes would not only benefit trans people, but could also result in benefits for others as well.
it's a win-win situation.
>>74207517
Except the vast majority of research disagrees. Gender identity is biologically hardwired into the brain during the intrauterine period of development (first 2 months in womb). But yes, gender roles are sociological.
All real world cases where an individual was forced or tricked into being raised as a separate gender has resulted in suicide or de-transition.
See: David Reimer or Walt Heyer
both were forced and socialized to be women and one suicided + one detransitioned.
>>74207880
Because it forces people to do things they don't want to do. Encouraging people to do what they like is much better than being miserable with being a science major.
It's like this, why would I force my child to play a sport if they aren't happy playing the sport? Sure in your case you consider it a win-win but honestly it's a win-lose for some.
>>74205788
Because it is actively being encouraged to parents to be more soft and at times encouraging to the idea of letting your child slip into the deep end of literal mental illness. I have no problem with Trannies doing what they want to their own body as long as.
1. It doesn't create a social stigma in how parents bring up children.
2. Doesn't berate society, education or government into not following along with their delusion.
3. Isn't funded by tax money.
I have a tranny acquaintance at university and one of the core reasons I like them is because they are fully accepting of the idea that they are likely mentally ill, doesn't care or expect preferred pronouns and at one point went on a rant on how Denmark recently stopped seeing it as a mental Illness. Thankfully some decent ones are out there but the fucking terrible modern LGBT movement persuades the majority of trannies to be utter cunts.
>>74207880
... I mean, I encourage anyone to pursue sciences.
I don't think not transitioning and just slaving away to try and create the technology is the right solution though if that's what your saying.
I think everyone should learn more science, it's clear just by looking at this thread everyone is clueless as fuck. Drop real empirical research and they ignore it and keep spewing memes.
>>74208373
This guy knows what's up
>>74207954
Let's run down the list of intersex conditions and attempt to diagnose the average tranny.
>Female pseudohermaphroditism
They have ovaries, nope.
>Gonadal dysgenesis
They are already born looking female, nope.
>Male pseudohermaphroditism
Low test but certainly not the fags we"re looking for.
>True hermaphroditism
Nope.
Well damn it's none of those intersex conditions...what is the name of this elusive kind of intersex that only effects the brain but not the body?
It's almost like it doesn't exist at all...
>>74208686
I don't know the formal name for it, however it has to do with the brain. That's why there's a lot of controversy classifying it as an intersex condition, many say intersex should be reserved for conditions affecting the genitals. It is however in the broader category of "disorders of sexual development", of which intersex conditions are a subset.
>>74208686
Are you surprised it "doesn't exist at all"?
The research has only existed for ~15 years. That's like talking to Newton and saying, "what do you call this force? hmm? obviously gravity doesn't exist because it hasn't been defined before!"
Of course Newton couldn't have proven gravity existed by looking back and pointing to it, because it was a new concept. This is a new concept within the last 15 years that seems to be increasingly more substantial.
Evidence has continuously piled up that gender identity is biologically hardwired and transgender people have brains with opposite sexual dimorphism.
>>74208686
30 years ago we didn't understand a single thing about biology and its relationship to sexuality and gender. The amount of information we've learned in such a short time is staggering.
>>74209104
Fucking finally. I started this thread forever ago waiting for it to boil down this this.
All your knowledge of bullshit and in the end even you have to admit there's no actual medical diagnoses, it's just "muh feelings".
That's not a good reason to mutilate people and shoot them up with shit. Great job Dr. Doolittle.
>>74209605
It's not "bullshit" just because we don't have a widespread formal name for it. There is evidence supporting this hypothesis, and that means this hypothesis is credible until such a time as another hypothesis gets equal or greater supporting evidence. And gender dysphoria IS diagnosed, the brain sex theory is just believed to be the underlying cause WHY it occurs. Medical treatment of transgender people goes back much farther, and was judged empirically (i.e. based on how it improved patients' lives) even before we had an underlying theory.
>>74193644
Gender used to be a synonym (at least in portuguese) until cucks changed its meaning to appeal their sick ideology.
''Philosophers'' that don't have a extensive curriculum in mathematics end up simply debating irrelevant semantics
>>74209605
>end even you have to admit there's no actual medical diagnoses
What are you talking about? My patients are diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder.
Your argument isn't as strong as you think it is, lol. If you've been waiting this whole thread to say that I rate 6/10. Basically you just want to play semantics and say, "look! since this research is new it's not real".
>>74209927
>just because we can't prove something due to lack of evidence doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Excellent arguement. Sure changed my mind. OFF WITH THEIR COCKS!!!
>>74210081
>gender identify disorder
How does one go about proving that to you since there's no physical evidence?
>>74210336
>no physical evidence
Huh? See: >>74204795
Click that image and scroll the bottom half. It's 15 articles specifically discussing what neurological differences exist in cases of GID.
Research has shown strong cross gender feelings are coupled with flipped sexual dimorphism in the brain. Specifically the two areas with greatest difference to controls is the hypothalamus behavior and structure and the limbic system: hormones and instinct centers.
____
Ignoring all that, why does somebody even need a reason to transition? Why does an individual have justify to you what they do with their own autonomous body? Do you believe in freedom?
>>74210204
But I literally said we do have evidence.
>>74210606
>Ignoring all that, why does somebody even need a reason to transition? Why does an individual have justify to you what they do with their own autonomous body? Do you believe in freedom?
Well, they should need a formal diagnosis if they're getting insurance or state healthcare to pay for it. If you just want to do it and pay for it yourself, I don't see why anyone else should care one way or the other.
>>74210204
Also, I like how you want to try and make transition seem like such a dangerous medical procedure that "ruins" and "destroys".
Care to look at the deaths from prescription overdoses this year? But yeah, haha clearly spironolactone is the real public enemy. :^)
>>74210606
I'm assuming all of the people diagnosed with "gender identity disorder" undergo test to prove that they in fact have something physically wrong with their brain before you give them the okay to mutilate themselves, right?
Otherwise it would just be like a boob job or any other cosmetic surgery with more risk than reward.
>>74210606
forgive me for my ignorance xir,
but if problems with gender identity, and say body identity are both forms of dysphoria, why is one treated with surgery to match the dysphoria, while the other is treated with therapy to reject the dysphoria?
>>74212174
>well dr. This guys brain is abnormal, what do?
>cut off his dick
Is there any other mental illness treated with cosmetic surgery? Serious question.
>>74211645
Lol! Dude, you are absolutely clueless. First off, you can't just go and get SRS. There is often a 1-2 year waiting list for the surgery and it must be approved by both the endo, gender therapist, and surgical practitioner.
Further, only 25% of MtF transgender patients EVER get bottom surgery. 2-10% of FtM. So really only 15% of the entire trans community ever gets genital operations.
>>74212174
Because gender transition actually works. For BDD or BIID, if the offending part is removed or modified (e.g., dermatological treatments to get rid of a mole), they simply re-fixate on a new part. Trans people, in general, do not. Now of course, those that transition and start with a very masculine body will probably continue to suffer from gender dysphoria but in patients where they atleast get close to their preferred sex clear relief from the negative feelings is seen.
>>74212898
>1-2 year waiting list and approval
You didn't anwser my question. Do these people test positive for definite mental abnormality, (that you portrayed as evidence) before they are allowed to transition?
>only 25% of trans dudes get snipped
So 75% of trans """"girls""" have dicks? Wow.
>>74193644
sex is science. biology, chromosomes. gametes. reproductive organs. chemistry
gender is entirely a social construct and has no objective truth or value. in some societies, the feminine ideal is to be small/thin, delicate and useless for much else other than status and sex - whereas in other societies the feminine ideal is a larger curvy woman who is good at manual labor and handy skills
>>74193644
Sex is physical. Gender is a synonym for physical, but traditionally used to declare whether words were masculine or feminine.
>>74193644
Nothing.
Liberals are attempting to hijack the term 'gender' to justify their bullshit. Prior to John Money the terms 'sex' and 'gender' were synonyms.
This is all LITERALLY a Cultural Marxist project to fuck up our culture.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money
>>74214663
What a sick fuck.
>>74199999
>So the only reasonable option is to treat the symptoms.
Except suicide rates among post transition trannies is fucking high. Transitioning is doing more harm than good, because we aren't treating the mental illness.
>>74202470
What's your fucking point? Mental illnesses result in structural changes in the brain.
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23612107/
Threads dying so let's sum up what we've learned today:
>there's no name for this mysterious disease that supposedly causes gender identity disorder
>no physical evidence of being "trans" is required to transition. Just feelings.
>75% of trans """"girls""" have dicks
>the guy who coined these terms, John money, was a pedophile sympathizer who forced a kid to perform sex acts for science. The kid eventually committed suicide.
>Transitioning does little to nothing to decrease suicide rates.
I think it's safe to say the medical community needs to re think their approach.
>>74193644
Seeing a lot of people in this thread that need to get themselves a dictionary.
>>74219896
>progressives aren't trying to modify the language so as to modify our culture.
Kills yourself you worthless Brit.
