http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/14/us/christopher-hitchens-was-shaky-in-his-atheism-new-book-suggests.html?_r=0
What did they mean by this?
>>74081990
BUMP
>>74081990
That's what happens when your brother is Morality Man.
He was also probably getting sick of the proto-SJWs.
>>74081990
everybody who is doing atheism right is shaky in his atheism. you should easily be able to convert an atheist if you have demonstrable evidence.
>The Jews’ God (late in life, Mr. Hitchens learned his mother, and thus he, was Jewish)
I swear, this happens everytime.
Probably shit himself after the cancer diagnosis, like all atheists facing death.
>>74081990
Its the edgy ass new age atheist that are turning him off.
He's realizing they follow him, without reasoning, all because he has you tube videos of him doing debates and beating regular christians in debates. They don't even question what he says anymore, they just accept it.
He doesn't know how to be god to these people, and he's realizing that he can't be.
>>74082973
Well of course. That's the whole fucking point. If we had some proof of a higher being or God, even a real smidgen, then we would accept it. Atheists are only atheists because they can't find proof.
>>74084042
I'd consider that reaction to be entirely normal, regardless of faith (or lack thereof). Hoping for an afterlife/god isn't an indication that it exists.
Hitchens was a nihilist. He was a depressed alcoholic couldn't "Rationalize" his way out of drinking himself to death
>>74084165
he's dead bro
>>74081990
of course, he was a jew and a literal faggot
>>74081990
Wow how interesting!!! The media is telling us what dead REALLY thought!!
Why don't you go back and read what Hitchens wrote about the matter instead of some speculation in the jew york times?
>>74084234
not only atheists can't find proof.
>>74081990
what a pathetic liar
what a cunt, trying to make money with dead people
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4cPe_YS8i8
>>74084492
thank god for that
>>74083996
>late in life, Mr. Hitchens learned his mother, and thus he, was Jewish
which is a lie, he knew that from an early age, he wrote this in one of his books... like "my mom is a jew, so i guess this makes me one too (despite the fact that he had 0 jewish influence, etc.) but i don't give a damn about that insane middle eastern desert cult"
and again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBgaEYV2BaY from minute 8 on
>>74087057
converting people on their death bed to atheism whole crowd goes wild , we deserve islam and we deserve to get slaughtered by them
>>74081990
That's one of the stupidest thing ever written.
10/10.
>>74084234
Only retads would expect "proof", which is a concept used to deal with material things in a practical way, of something beyond the material.
Everyone should study hypothesis testing to really understand how meaningless "proof" is.
>>74084234
... hence why it's called "faith"
>>74081990
hey look, the vultures are at it again. did not expect anything better from god-botherers, but still ...
>>74081990
This is only news to people who think that atheism is actually a religion. Redneck inbred trailer trash autistic people that live in trailer parks think this.
Atheism itself is not a religion, although I do think that what atheism has become bears all the hallmarks of a religion. But things change, that's just the way things are.
Who wouldn't want to have a bit of Jesus in their life?
>>74088943
>that pic
>middle eastern pedophile takes little european boy out for a ''''''walk'''''''
KEK
>>74088850
Biggest butthurt post of the day goes to this leaf
>>74089541
Thank you for contributing to this board in such a thoughtful way, trailer trash christburger.
>>74088850
Atheism talks and walks like a religion. They just replaced the deity worship with the government. This is why atheists are mostly left leaning.
>>74081990
I would have been shaky too if I had been spanked as hard as he was in a debate with William Lane Craig.
>>74089747
>Redneck inbred trailer trash autistic people that live in trailer parks think this.
that was such a well thought out and insightful comment, maplenigger
>>74090282
i think you confused atheism with liberalism.
>>74088618
Why have faith?
>>74081990
He wasn't shaky in his belief at all.
According to Andrew Sullivan, who was a good friend of his, his last words were "Capitalism...downfall".
>>74090555
Atheists treat liberals as their flocks.
>>74090555 (checked)
Statheism is very much a thing though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxTJnjLkbk8
Fear of the unknown and the slightest chance of spending an eternity in torment are enough to make most people shaky in their beliefs.
>>74081990
Larry Alex Taunton is basically the late Hitchens own analogous Lady Hope (Darwins fictional lady that converted Darwin on his deathbed).
Larry Alex Taunton is also a Christian, so obviously he hears what he want to hear. Lying for Christ isn't a sin after all. :^)
>>74088618
It's an assertion that says "this immaterial being is our intelligent creator and has power over everything"
If that being has power over everything (including matter) and is intelligent, communication with such a being should be achievable in a tangible, materialistic sense. We have not once witnessed a sound, force or intelligent response to efforts to communicate with a divine being/creator in all of human history. No hard evidence for any sort of "miracles" taking place ever.
>>74088488
>Evidence is retarded
>Make-believe is better
Wew lad
>>74081990
>man spends a significant portion of his career literally outright saying that he doesn't believe God exists and if he does, he's an asshole
>man who has a clear bias writes totally unfalsifiable claims about said man indicating he was in fact religious
>mfw people take this seriously
>>74091185
The problem is once you've consigned yourself ideologically to casting out the immaterial you eventually come to the point where you realize things like individuality, the concept of self, civilization, justice, mercy, and all sorts of things that you value are also immaterial, and you find yourself in a very sticky situation.
Which is why atheists get so butthurt when theists rightfully call then out for having no basis for their morality.
whenever a popular figure who is an atheist dies the Christians like to go "ohh he came around eventually".
Wait till Bill Nye and Dawkins die, they'll do it then too. Religion is a cancer.
>>74091476
If you're one of those atheists who claims to be moral clearly you believe "make-believe" is better too, and are in no position to cast stones.
>>74092162
You can have a basis for morality without authoritarian origin. As a species, not being complete assholes is beneficial and makes us feel good. No God needed to tell us such, it's already within us.
Haven't heard a single theist agree with this yet, but perhaps you'd like to be the first.
An implication is, however, that what's the use of the bible if we already got morality programmed in us?
>>74092029
It's not gonna get any better soon.
>>74081990
Likely bullshit. People say all manner of bullshit of people after they die.
>>74088488
>Only retads would expect "proof", which is a concept used to deal with material things in a practical way, of something beyond the material.
You've just set up something called an unfalsifiable claim. You've constructed your argument in such a way that there is no way to falsify it. What you've said doesn't mean anything, it's just a had wavy out of having to actually confront the conversation.
>Everyone should study hypothesis testing to really understand how meaningless "proof" is.
Also a non-argument, explain exactly how hypothesis testing makes proof meaningless. What is deficient about it?
>>74092162
The basis for an atheists morality is literally exactly the same as the basis for religious morality - culture.
>I base my morality upon my faith!
Which you only have via the society you were born in. If you lived in some godless society, do you really believe you'd be the sole inhabitant to spontaneously develop faith in god? No, you owe every last drop of your faith and hence your morality to your community, in the exact same manner as an atheist.
>>74092162
This argument is so flimsy it makes you seem retarded.
>If you can think of an abstract concept it exists
>I can think of God so he exists
>Therefore any fucking thing I can think of exists
>Proof? What proof?
>>74081990
When your bro is based Morality Man it's pretty hard to be Immoral
No he wasn't, they say there are no atheists in fox holes but Hitchens was in a fox hole and never once prayed, a very great loss. Would love to hear what he would be saying about ISIS.
>>74092300
Morality is a social construct derived from evolutionary factors conducive to optimal survival and procreation. There is no objective morality.
>>74092708
> The basis for an atheists morality is literally exactly the same as the basis for religious morality - culture.
And atheism destroys culture.
>>74092768
I don't remember making that argument....
>>74092942
>And atheism destroys culture.
This is some premium bait.
>>74092942
k bud
>>74092269
When you get close to death you can "see" the abyss. If you're near death long enough you start "seeing" other things. It's terrifying, and painful to see the abyss, but with gods there is no abyss and the pain from fear is gone.
You'll feel that pain too, one day. Hopefully you don't let your stubbornness keep you from finding your way.
>>74092932
>morality is a social construct
Exactly!
and we've all seen just how much respect "social constructs" get in modern atheistic society!
>>74093045
You implied that ideas like hope and justice are immaterial and exist so therefore an immaterial God should exist
>>74092501
As a species being a complete asshole is ALSO beneficial and also feels good.
Natural instinct shifts with the wind and is a poor basis for morality.
>>74093148
Yes, some people are pathetic cowards and will grasp on to literally any slight shred of hope no matter what utterly disgusting history and practice is attached to it, I agree completely.
>>74093398
>Natural instinct shifts with the wind and is a poor basis for morality.
Just like the pope.
>>74084467
This.
>>74093099
You look at the state of societies that have succumbed to atheism and honestly disagree?
>>74093203
I don't necessarily disagree with you there. I've considered going to church just to be around people who value community and instill proper values in women but ultimately it would be living a lie. Likewise it'd be hard to lie to anyone else's face about believing in God even if I felt it was in some ways for the greater good (and in others not).
>>74093398
>As a species being a complete asshole is ALSO beneficial and also feels good.
Sure, but how beneficial is it really in the long run to alienate yourself?
>Natural instinct shifts with the wind and is a poor basis for morality.
Give an example, I do not know what you're referring to.
>>74092932
HEH. HEH. HEH.
>>74093099
>>74093146
How's Europe doing?
Are you enjoying that Big Muslim Cock? :^)
>>74093434
I used to think that way too.
Pride is pointless when Death gets sick walking behind you. Maybe an intelligent atheist such as yourself would understand this.
>>74093398
>Natural instinct shifts with the wind
no. it doesn't. its pretty constant. thats why its called "instinct." and not "thought"
>>74093677
>no argument
>another tripfag
>>74081990
Reminder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9TMwfkDwIY
>>74093715
He is using logic to describe how humans cling to things to feel better about their own mortality, you are talking about how humans feel when death approaches. You both have good points.
>>74081990
>What did they mean by this?
It means he secretly believed, and that we're going to get to see Hitch again in Heaven.
>>74093832
>"you can't get an 'ought' from an atheistic 'is'" is no argument
L A M O
A
M
O
>>74084234
Explain sacred geometry and how god made everything then. I literally red pilled myself on religion by construction a long rational way for everything to work. A lot of people know about these things these days and not only the freemasons (sacred geometry).
But like there others have said here. Atheists will always ask "wheres the proof" unable to hear or comprehend how retarded that sounds.
>>74090426
Yeah, I figured that if Christians can endlessly insult atheists on here and claim, atheists are arrogant, I can give it right back to them.
Everyone is arrogant, Christians on here are just on an arrogant highhorse as usual.
>>74093307
No I did not.
I said that once you start throwing away ideas simply because they are immaterial and cannot be falsified you will inevitably find yourself in the situation where you must also throw away concepts like morality and the self if you wish to be consistent in your epistemology.
The same way you reject holding onto God because of "feels", you should reject holding onto other metaphysical concepts .
>>74093860
Just because something is difficult or impossible to refute doesn't mean it's right.
>>74093557
>You look at the state of societies that have succumbed to atheism and honestly disagree?
m8, my country is something like 70% atheist, and every single department store is still closed on Sundays, because of a bullshit cultural norm our country, and we still celebrate things that are part of our culture even though we are mostly non-religious.
So stop shitposting.
>>74093970
Yeah but Christians are right and atheists are wrong. I think that should be what you take away from this debate
>>74093949
Please point to the post where you proved god's existence.
>>74094107
Aren't you getting cucked by """"""""migrants"""""""", Norway?
>>74094080
I don't care what you think 2bh, keep your thoughts to yourself
>>74093557
>states that succumbed to atheism
lets see
Czech Republic
Estonia
Denmark
..nice places
>Countries that succumbed to theism
Saudi Arabia
India
Brazil
....ewww no thanks
>>74093860
Awww, he's still human after all.
>>74093688
>CDU is leading the charge in destroying europe
>christian democratic union
>bundespresident: priest
>cancelor: daughter of a priest
hurr durr atheism is bad
ha, no
>>74094171
>Aren't you getting cucked by """"""""migrants"""""""", Norway?
Nah, we have pic related.
>>74094130
Please give me a single "ought" you can derive from your hedonistic naturalistic "is"'s.
Also please point point to the post where you prove you're not a brain in a vat.
I'll. Wait~
>>74084234
you can't find that which doesn't exist
>>74094171
Leftists and christian cucks are trying to cuck us.
>>74094107
Your argument is that in recent times things havent turned bad enough to be said to be proof of a culture in decline? Christianity was an important part of our culture for 800 years. The jews corrupted that and VERY recently atheism had a surge. Literally our parents failed us. Nowadays we debate on how to change our society to a 3rd world multicultural shit hole. The fact that you dont see whats going on at this point Ola... it makes me sad.
>>74094375
That's not an answer to the question I posed.
I'll have to assume that you cannot speak English and I will thus terminate this conversation with you forthwith.
Cant believe i was an atheist at some point kek
what a faggot i was
The right brother died
>>74094490
>The jews corrupted that
I'm pretty sure I'm an atheist of my own personal volition m8, and not because of Jews.
>>74094498
Since you can't even prove your sensory experience corresponds to real objects, I feel no burden whatsoever to "prove" to you something I take as an axiomatic belief - sorry~
Now tell me more about oughts. Tell me moooore~
>>74094375
>namefag
>shitty image in place of argument
>pretentious
Yep, everything checks out.
>>74094684
>saw trip
>didnt read
I still miss him.
>>74093715
Yes, you should swallow your pride and accept utterly disgusting ideologies so you can make believe your conscience survives your body, I agree completely.
>>74094635
"Im too stupid to understand that the jews fucked western culture from above and beyond" is what I hear when you speak.
>>74094686
>Please give me a single "ought" you can derive from your hedonistic naturalistic "is"'s.
>Also please point point to the post where you prove you're not a brain in a vat.
>no arguments
L A M O
A
M
O
You better add "animeposting" to your list BRO BRAH
>>74094684
>Since you can't even prove your sensory experience corresponds to real objects
Neither can you faggot, and yet you live as though you can.
>>74094729
>saw trip
>responds
Keep responding.
>>74094490
> Christianity keeps Norway Norwegian
Christianity is a middle eastern religion just like Islam. Jesus is even in the fucking Quaran. If you were still worshiping Odin and Thor I'd see your point.
>>74094749
>giganten stinkende rumpe fjert stoy er hva jeg horer når du snakker
>>74094811
That's because I take it on faith that God is in the heavens and He would never deceive me in such a way, thus I can rely on my sensory experience.
You have no such answer. It's why the problem of induction bothers you and not a single theist on earth.
>>74093398
Actually, helping other people feels good. Even rats have empathy. Do you honestly think that humans started working together because they were compelled by a higher power? Fucking each other feels good, laughing feels good, and if enough people are together everyone gets fed because everyone can specialize in something.
Being an asshole isn't any good when there are 10 people who think that assholes should have their skull hollowed with a blunt weapon
>>74094741
The consequences of your pride won't be nice.
You want nothing? You're gonna get it.
>>74081990
he saw the light of christ
>>74094925
>He would never deceive me in such a way
I can prove your god is a liar. Especially if he is the abrahamic god of the bible.
>>74094925
>He would never deceive me
Sure he can. He decieved Job several times.
>>74094843
>If you were still worshiping Odin and Thor I'd see your point.
These deities were likely not actual deities, but natural phenomenons. Odin was likely a shamanic title, based on an actual person that was influential. There are hundreds of names for Odin indicating a monophyletic origin.
Thor is basically thunder that brings with it the rains, thus akin to a fertility force.
I refrain from calling these actual characters, that's a middle eastern thing I think, because Gods used to walk amongst men, or so the legends go. Pharaohs were Gods for instance.
>>74087282
woah westboro chill the fuck out
>>74094925
>we can't prove anythings real
>therefore all the retarded shit in the bible is real
Wow, my mind is blown bro. I am now a #bibleblowhard.
>>74095132
You actually can't. You can't even prove I'm not a figment of your imagination, Tippy-san.
>>74094925
PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
LOOK GOD LIED
>>74095144
>Jeg har tro på at jeg vil nyte farting og smelling hva jeg opprettet
>>74095144
He didn't deceive Job at all. He just let bad things happen to him. Nowhere does God ever tell you life on earth will be perfect just because you believe in Him and follow His Word. At best you're blessed, and all *that* could mean is that you have salvation upon death.
>>74095223
>You can't even prove I'm not a figment of your imagination
That's wrong. There is plenty of evidence to verify your existence. 4chans servers for one, contain such evidence.
>>74095381
>74095381
PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
GOD'S A LIAR
>>74095263
Please tell me what good is to a believer.
I'll wait~
>>74095211
Show me the statement in this thread that argues that everything in the bible happened and ill show you how shitty reading comprehension you have.
>>74095530
Keep waiting
Why did your god lie? Is it because he is a lying liar?
PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
>>74095398
>there is plenty of evidence to verify your existence
>4chans servers for one, contain such evidence
And you know you're not hallucinating right now because...?
>>74095381
The point I'm trying to make is that the problem of subject/object doesn't suddenly disappear just because you appeal to God.
There's nowhere in the Bible where it says "The world is objective, and physical reality actually exists independent of subjectivity".
>>74092671
What good does pointing out it's an unfalsifiable claim do? Some unfalsifiable claims are true, you'll just never have good enough evidence to know they are true.
>>74095598
I will keep waiting, because the answer to that question denies any contradiction you think there are between those verses.
Z U T T O ~
>>74095398
You might actually be retarded.
>>74095624
>And you know you're not hallucinating right now because...?
I have no evidence to counter the fact that I am sober and of sound mind.
Me being aware of reality allows me to make accurate predictions and models that have practical utility.
What models of practical utility do your ghost stories provide? Can they predict things?
Also why is your god a liar?
PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
>>74095684
No, but it does say God is truthful, and if everything I experience is a hallucination I wouldn't be apt to say God would be truthful.
If you're familiar with Descartes' Meditations you'd have encountered this line of thought.
>>74095716
why does he lie?
PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
>>74095804
>I have no evidence to counter the fact (LMAO) that I am sober and of sound mind
I have no evidence to counter the fact that God Almighty is my Lord Creator and resides in Heaven and that He will judge all souls.
>>74095716
It's not good to a believer, which is the point.
Your lack of comprehension of the implications of that phrase do not require some "special" reaction.
>>74095884
>keeps posting verses wherein no lie occurs
L A M O
A
M
O
>>74095853
Descartes was wrong plain and simple.
Baseless assertions that are intestable.
Which is why philosophy is completely useless.
>>74095853
>If you're familiar with Descartes' Meditations you'd have encountered this line of thought.
Yeah, and Descartes came to the conclusion that there is a demon or an evil genius that is causing the hallucination of reality.
>>74095973
It's good to be a believer - being a believer is a necessary quality for goodness actually.
But the point in question is that - to a believer - what God does is *necessarily* good and right.
>>74095804
"Me being aware of reality allows me to make accurate predictions and models that have practical utility."
Yeah it does for all of us friend. But it doesnt give you capacity to explain how shit came to be and why. Those who found god understand and have faith in the spirit that created all these tools you speak of.
>>74095263
your father is a policeman he is good to all agree ?
sometimes your father has to arrest people even kill people your father is still good to all
>>74096066
>Baseless assertions that are intestable.
You mean like baselessly asserting that you're sober and of sound mind?
L A M O
A
M
O
>>74096011
You have no evidence for god's existence.
>>74096157
So the fact that he contradicts himself is OK with you?
If God can change his decision of what is right and wrong on a whim, then what exactly do you believe?
>>74096087
That's not his conclusion *at all*. Have you read Meditations?
>>74096310
>That's not his conclusion *at all*.
Yes it is. I have the book right here.
>>74096261
You have no evidence your sensory experience corresponds to real objects.
Pretty sure you're in a worse pickle than me.
L A M O
A
M
O
>>74096170
>But it doesnt give you capacity to explain how shit came to be and why
Understanding physics does.
>stellar formation
>chemistry
>biology
These models give us great insight into the past , present and future of our universe.
>>74096395
Dreams can be impossible to distinguish from reality, how can you be sure your dreams aren't real and you aren't just dreaming right now?
>>74090555
Enjoyable post
>>74096302
He doesn't contradict Himself. What constitutes "goodness" changes over the course of the Bible for humans, because God changes His commands. There's an Old Covenant and a New Covenant as probably the paradigmatic example of that.
We know what the New Covenant says, and it hasn't changed since its outset, nor will it until the end of time.
>>74094125
>but Christians are right
>>74096247
clearly the verse shows that mercy if for all and not for all at the same time.
a policeman is not all-powerful and omnipotent,
this further demonstrates the character flaw of such a god.
Are you saying its impossible for God to create a situation where he is merciful to all?
>>74096481
Ok look up why the universe was created please. I want to know what physics say about that
>>74096394
That's a thought experiment he subjects himself to in order to put his reasonings under the most extreme skeptical scrutiny he can imagine to see if he can overcome it. That is *NOT* his *CONCLUSION*.
>>74096533
I can't be. The difference is that that doesn't bother me, while it bothers an empiricist/naturalist/physicalist/materialist *IMMENSELY*.
>>74081990
A disingenuous jew?
Surprised?
>>74096632
i am just saying that he keeps eing good to all and there are sometimes situation where he has to act upon
>Are you saying its impossible for God to create a situation where he is merciful to all?
why would he if you fucked up and are beyond saving
>>74096481
Stellar formations, chemistry and biology are all made from and of the same shit. Who made physics? What does physics say about this?
>>74096395
>You have no evidence your sensory experience corresponds to real objects.
Yes I do.
being able to see things has predicative utility. Which is useful.
Your a priori arguments don't establish any applicable knowledge.
You bible fantasy provides no utility or any application to understanding this material world.
That's why philosophy is useless as a determiner of truth values. Its funny that you think your are proving of disproving anything. Because your incapable of doing just that in the realm of mere "humanities".
Your position is all opinion and no fact due to your sad reliance on rationalism. Saying:
>you cant prove me wrong
doesn't reveal any knowledge or information, in fact, if position is untestable, then that means it is most certainly a fallacious assertion.
>>74097108
"Usefulness" =/= truth
Try again~
>>74096778
>It doesn't bother me that everything might be a dream because God, but it does bother an empiricist/naturalist/physicalist/materialist because he doesn't have an answer to it
It really must be comfortable to be so arrogant that you think you know the answer to everything in life by just invoking your belief in a deity.
>>74096778
It very much can be.
Think of people in a coma, many live in a dream world and don't have a clue they're in a coma.
If they die that way, and they never knew they were in a coma, they were not aware of reality the entire time.
Actually it doesn't bother any of them at all, because it doesn't really change anything.
>>74096640
> why the universe was created please.
>why
the why is irrelevant even if applicable.
>Who made physics?
Nobody. They aren't made, they are discovered.
They are descriptive laws not prescriptive ones.
>What does physics say about this?
Nothing. Anything physics cannot measure is irrelevant to those in a physical universe.
>>74096595
There are tons of contradictions in the New Testament, and there's still a debate as to weather the New Covenant is even relevant.
Any body following the bible knows that.
>>74094125
I hope for your sake that post is sarcasm. If it isn't, you are no better than the "fedora tippers" you and your ilk bitch about.
But hey, it's alright. If it isn't sarcasm, I can take comfort in the fact that you are relegated to a cesspool called 4chan.org, and the Christian demographic in the West just keeps going down, down and down some more.
>>74097225
I don't though. It's an axiom. I take it on faith. Which, funny enough, is exactly what you do when you hold to the axiom "my sensory experience corresponds to real objects". The difference is that I'm honest enough to tell you I'm taking something on faith, while most atheists either don't understand that that is what they're doing (and would be very alarmed to learn) or else are intentionally dishonest about it. There are only a few atheistic souls I've ever encountered who recognize what exactly it is their beliefs necessitate.
>>74095884
>PSA 145:9
8 The Lord is gracious, and full of compassion; slow to anger, and of great mercy.
9 The Lord is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
>great mercy
mr atheist better quote all and not cherry pick
>>74097182
>"Usefulness" =/= truth
doesn't have to.
follow this:
truth=irrelevant
utility=application
knowledge without application is a waste of time. It fails the cost v benefit analysis.
quantifiable effort > non-utility
This is why philosophy is useless.
Let's look at what "a priori" has created that was useful.
>Nothing
How about empirical science?
>everything you rely on in modern life.
>>74097236
>it very much can be
You didn't instantiate that with the rest of your post - you just said it's possible to be comfortable with it. I'm not about to sit here and tell you ignorance can't be comfortable, but I don't know why you'd *ever* want to take solace in that fact.
>>74097493
>his tender mercies are over all his works.
are people not his works?
are people not in hell?
do they not have tender mercies in hell?
>>74097316
The why I dont know either. And it seems like you got my firsy point. Physics deserve whats here in this creation. We have made rules based on what we see through human eyes and non-living tools. You cant prove the creators exsistense, which is what makes it so great when you finally find that clever motherfucker. And that was the whole point right? Right. Life is god playing hide and seek. Conciousness at every level. And we the humans at the edge of understanding everything.. good times
>>74097336
Give me whatever you think is a contradiction and I'd be happy to sit here for the next couple hours explaining why things aren't.
>>74097387
It was a joke leafy dont worry. But I believe what I said.
>>74081990
He probably was going to convert soon. His brother was as adamant in his youth about atheism being right and all Christians are evil, but when he became enlightened he became a devout Anglican. His brother was going down the exact same path (both were liberals but slowly became classic Conservatives - Peter more so of course).
>>74081990
In his book he wrote while he was dying, "Mortality," he literally warned us that people would try to say this about him.
>>74097633
good times, friend.
>>74097542
The entire premise of what we're discussing is whether your sensory experience corresponds to real objects. That's a question of truth - does it or does it not.
>truth=irrelevant
COMEDY GOLD LAMO
>>74097612
what is hell ?
I read the article. It doesn't say he was shaky at all. His friend got him to read some of the Bible and discuss it with him. His friend then "got the feeling" Chritopher was thinking about Christianity being true. No evidence president at all, almost all of Hitchens friends say its bullshit.
>>74097801
Ur living it. But if you act bad you go to worse hell. Especially if u found god and continue to act bad
>this thread
>>74097459
Yeah but the point is that it wouldn't matter.
Even if you met an atheist who wasn't an empiricist, and was a rationalist, and disagree that sensory experience corresponds to real objects, he would still have to live life as though they are real objects.
He couldn't walk into traffic for example, just because he believes that the object he sees is just a figment of his imagination.
>>74097805
y is dis nikka tilting hsi head like that
>>74097799
>truth=relevant
now i am laughing.
my experience corresponds to electromagnetism and chemistry, which is demonstrable.
Since you like a priori arguments with no chance of eliciting useful knowledge, try this one for size.
You ask me how do I know truth?
You should be asking why should I care about truth?
>>74097801
you tell me. is it merciful in your estimation?
>>74098066
is that from dante's inferno ?because when i read he bible its not clear what hell really is . Only the part that hell was created for satan and his fallen angels
>>74098066
Exactly. Worse hell is worse because there's no Christians, but still the same number of Jews and Muslims.
>>74097988
It's also worth noting that Hitches has read multiple versions of the Bible in their entirety. He didn't do this out faith he did it because he was an essayist and global debater against fundamentalists and needed to know their material as much as they did.
>reminder, if god existed he would play a game, the game would be hide and seek, however there is nothing that exists outside of god, so god would have nobody to play the game with except himself, so god plays with himself, and to make sure the game is really good, he makes himself forget that he is god, so he can really believe his own inventions and stories, his dreams in which he hides and seeks for himself
> from this all duality is created, god is good and evil, ying yang, male female, positive negative, you name it, it's god, you can't name it its god to, only he is hiding, and you are IT
>god plays at being an atheist, and being a scientist who can't find him, he also plays at being a theist and priests claiming with certainty that he has found god when they have never had a mystical experience in their life, yet they are both part of the game of hide and seek
>to escape the game and remember who you really are take a high does of some psychedelic entheogen like LSD or magic mushrooms
>>74098133
Spirituality matters. Our society is getting sicker and sicker because spirituality and god was taken from us (us=western culture). Not only those things, but of course they matter.
>>74098133
>it wouldn't matter
The truth matters.
>he would still have to live life as though they are real objects
He wouldn't though. He *could* very well do silly things - or at least things *we'd* call silly - if he wanted to. And since people do things like that constantly, I don't think we should pretend someone would never do so.
>>74098352
>The truth matters.
how do know truth isn't a figment of your imagination?
What moral basis do you have to declare that "truth = relevant"?
>>74098198
That's so fucking funny. The fact that atheism gives a cover for your illogical hedonism will never stop being hilarious to me.
Why should I care about utilitarian self-wankery?
>>74081990
>He recanted on his deathbed!!
Why are crossniggers STILL doing this shit?
>>74098066
It should be noted that failing to act within accordance with your desires is a sin since your desires come from god, with every sin you commit you get to know evil better and therefore the good better, when I found god I became what most on this board would call a depraved and total slut, but that is the way god works, I know through direct experience
>>74098352
>The truth matters.
You already conceded that the truth doesn't matter, because it is intrinsically relativistic by the very fact that people have different axioms.
Just like there is no convincing argument that can be made against or for the fact that sensory experience corresponds to real objects, there is no convincing argument that can be made for taking faith as an axiom either.
i fucking miss him so much.
i think a part of me died with him
and my whole worldview changed after he died. i dont really believe anything he fought for anymore, but god dammit i miss him
>>74098447
I don't, but logic necessitates truth values. A proposition either is or isn't as a logical necessity.
You can abandon logic all you'd like in favor of whatever anti-intellectual bs you want senpai. Nobody else is obligated to do so in turn.
>>74098271
More like buddhism actually. In the sense we are destined to re-live this hell until we reach enlightenment. If u find the answer and ignore it I believe youLL stay in dads prison. I found the answer this round so im changing my life to be true to myself and repent and that should be enough... how lower forms of Life are supposed to find answers and repent I have no idea actually given they cant discuss these concepts as far as I know
>>74098570
>You already conceded that the truth doesn't matter
Nowhere have I made that concession. What I've *SAID* was that you *MIGHT* not be able to access truth and *know it* as truth without doubt. That in no way denies that there *IS* truth.
>>74098198
>you tell me. is it merciful in your estimation?
a lot of people have already accepted dead as in eternal dead, god gives eternal life in heaven. is it not mercifull for people who dont want to live
>>74098746
Yes but you are coming into the thread whining that atheists don't concede that they have axioms.
Which I am more than willing to do. Atheists have axioms just like everyone else, but that doesn't make your religion any more true, and it doesn't make it's foundational, epistemological or ethical content true.
I mean, you are aware that Muslims consider you a heretic right? They have exactly the same axiom as you, it's just a different fucking book.
What makes them wrong, and you correct?
>>74098544
Indeed. I can relate to this as well.
>>74098917
Sure. It also doesn't make their beliefs true. I come into these threads because, usually, they *DO* think their beliefs are somehow beyond reproach. I'm always more interested in bringing people to intellectual honesty than I am anything else.
I don't come here to argue that I'm necessarily right, because I *really* don't think I am.
>>74081990
desperate lies, all of them. this man hated religion all the way to the end
>>74099066
>I come into these threads because, usually, they *DO* think their beliefs are somehow beyond reproach.
Maybe you should stop seeing the Reddit-tier fedoratheist as the common denominator then, because most of us aren't like that at all.
>>74099175
If they weren't a solid 85% of the professed atheists I encountered, I might be more inclined to believe those types weren't representative of the majority population of people who were atheists. Especially when my sample size is in or else is very near the thousands by now.
>know solipsism is true
>still visit pol everyday and shitpost with the bots
>>74081990
Even if his atheism was shaken by being on his deathbed, which there's zero evidence to suggest it was. That doesn't invalidate atheist arguments against theistic claims.
>>74099101
And with good reason. Religion has been used as a tool to control no matter what form it has taken. Christianity was a good one tho. Christians shouldnt kill ppl who dont understand but rather try and turn them with reason and good guidance. An idea like that shouldnt create too many people willing to kill others, it has produced some however, but it pales in comparison to the religion of piss. Islam is just christianity extreme and doesnt try and explain things the way Jesus did.
>>74081990
>NYT writes article implying Hitchens came crawling back to their Jew god when he was dying
>Hitchens cant BTFO them because he's dead
>/pol/ eats it up
>>74099384
>know solipsism is true
That's pretty arrogant, seeing as how solipsism claims you simply *can't* know there are things other than the self, when it's entirely logically possible that there might be a way of knowing not yet conceived.
He did state on multiple occasions things like, "I hope there's more to it" and he would talk about the "numinous" nature of human experience and really as good as he was at rhetoric, he wasn't great at defending hard atheism with logical rigor.
>>74081990
Matthew 12:32
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
>>74099879
That's because it's not well defensed. Just like almost any view with anything we'd call substance isn't.
>>74098110
What an amazing rebuttal. I'm sure the fat virgin neckbeard in his mother's basement that made that image is very proud of himself.
>>74081990
desperate lies from right wing wackjobs
>>74081990
I'm skeptical. This is the same man who said something among the lines of "If you ever hear something about my deathbed confession, it means the cancer got to my brain".
>>74100134
>That's because it's not well defensed
As opposed to what? Theism?
Theism is literally indefensible.
>>74100735
I don't know what about it could possibly be more or less defensible than almost anything else, given they all reduce to "I believe these things ultimately because I want to" reasoning.
>>74100824
I mean, do you have schizophrenia or something?
In this post you are being more parsimonious and reasonable, but in this post>>74100134 You sound like a smug Christian fundamentalist.
Make up your mind fag.
>>74100184
>>74099066
Thats where you fucked up.
Athiesm isnt a belief.
Its the lack of a belief.
You are illogical if you think belief=non-belief
>>74081990
> What did they mean by this?
They meant "buy this book, I want your money"
>>74098192
he's looking down his nose at the paki scum RT journo who was a total faggot
>>74098746
>>74098624
Truths are not relevant to the physical sciences.
Only theories that hold predictive utility.
>>74100914
What are you on about? I attack views. It's what I do. That *includes my own*, but when I'm addressing someone else obviously it'll be in response to their own ideas.
>>74100967
Agnosticism = Cuckoldry
Form some fucking opinions you bloody layabout
>>74082760
While I don't believe in god anymore I think Christianity is for the most part a useful and peaceful means of keeping immoral idiots from degeneracy. Buddhism is also useful, but I'm not sure if it works as well.
>>74100967
So you don't believe God doesn't exist?
Because the alternatives are "God does exist" or "God might exist".
All of which are beliefs, retard-chan~
>>74098839
>people who dont want to live
thats absurd
they are there because your god wants them there.
>>74101201
>I don't believe in god anymore
>>74101147
>truths are not relevant to the physical sciences
Mathematics is not relevant to the physical sciences boys - Mahkmed here has enlightened you. Pack up. Go home. You've been euphoric'd.
>>74101259
belief =\= non-belief
sorry your stupid if you cant parse that statement.
>So you don't believe God doesn't exist?
that is correct.
I do not believe god exists.
>>74088850
This.
Why can't people outgrow their parents fairytales and form their own beliefs about the world.
>>74101164
>Atheism isn't well-defensed. Something that has no substance usually doesn't.
>Everything just boils down to "I believe these things because I want to" derp derp
Yeah, I'm right, you are schizophrenic.
>>74101406
So it's not a belief to *believe* that God doesn't exist.
Is this...
The power...
Of Gaytheism...?
Woah...
>>74101400
not what i said, liar.
the physical sciences do not determine truths.
that is a fact and your a moron.
>>74081990
>atheism
Opinion_Discarded.jpg
>>74101507
Brilliant Henrik.
>>74101507
clearly idealistic absolutism from Praceturd
>>74101532
It is what you said, since mathematics involves nothing but a priori deductive truths/falsities.
So fucking funny L A M O
>>74101530
belief in dog isnt a belief too I guess.
saying dog bless doesnt make him exist.
power of dogma for dog almighty.. whoa
Since your just intentionally creating strawmen at this point, riddle me this.
Catholic preists are pedophiles , so that means God is a pedophile.
wow such proof. u cant argue against that becuz figments.
>>74101718
formal sciences =\= physical sciences
how does it feel to be so uninformed?
>>74101786
>says a belief isn't a belief
>procedes to inarticulately shitpost
Fucking gaythesists L A M O
>>74101871
>mathematics is science
C O M E D Y
G O L D
>>74081990
>Attacking the dead so they can't fight back.
Good job.
>>74101900
heyy sempai famalam
why do you think god is a faggot?
you said mathematics proves god is a faggot.
>>74100922
Dawkins is from an older generation of atheists, he is still annoying in many respects, I've had a distaste for him ever since I got banned from a few atheist forums years back and the people I talked with idolized him. I was always linked them with him, but that's all ancient history now.
>>74102050
L A M O
A
M
O
>>74101301
>anything that contradicts my worldview is inherently wrong
wew lad
>>74102017
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formal_science
oh im sorry you didn't go to college and get educated.
>he thought philosophy was education
and thats why you believe in ghosts and magic and stupid little cartoons like a baby.
>>74093949
>"you can't get an 'ought' from an atheistic 'is'" is no argument
you ought not to kill because if everyone can kill then you might be killed to
happy?
>>74101786
Im pretty sure having sex with kids whom are not ready for it is detrimental to the childs mental health and since this is would be immoral god wouldnt want you to fuck Kids. But pedophilia is a good trial and the chatolic priests who butt fuck Kids arent considered good people for good reason. Doesnt it make sense to have pedophilia if life in itself is a test? It sure does. Same with all the other delicious sins. Did you know satanism doesnt worship a red guy but the ego itself? No wonder satanist leaders who control our governments keep making degenerate shit legal.
