Please give me a reason as to why you oppose the clearly supreme form of governing, libertarianism
>>74064060
people mix up Libertarians and Anarchists all the time. The difference is too hard to understand for the average /pol/-tard.
>>74064060
>open borders
>supreme form of governing
KEK
>>74064060
I really don't
But obviously 100% libertarianism is a little tricky because roads
>>74064191
No see Murray Rothbard changed his stance on open borders later in life after he realized what a fucked up cuckery it creates, so that means libertarianism is totally compatible with closed borders!!
>>74064210
MUH ROADS XDDDDD
think of a better argument you brainlet
>>74064060
i know fucking nothing about how a libertarian government would run, so riddle me this:
An oil spill has just happened off the coast, the company whose fault it is is slow to manage the disaster, is blaming everyone else, and wont pay a cent in cleanup, disaster relief, or damages if someone doesnt make them.
What does the libertarian government do?
>>74064060
Because I like to drive on roads, have my food inspected for fecal matter, fire departments, and I am old enough to grow a beard and fuck women right in the pussy.
>>74064060
>Libertarianism is synonymous with anarchism
>Libertarians exclusively support open borders
>Libertarianism can't handle roads or other shared facilities
>Stupid hypothetical scenarios
3... 2... 1...
>>74064242
>libertarianism is totally compatible with closed borders
-So it's not libertarianism then
Ancap in favour of open borders here. All of you are fucking socialists.
>>74064137
>>74064153
>>74064169
>>74064087
>Anarcho-capitalism
>Libertarianism
you do realise they're not the same thing right?
>>74064284
The government does nothing. You want to know what will happen? Not a single god damn soul will buy from that company again if the spill worsens over time.
>>74064416
Yes it is. You can have libertarianism within a single country whilst still maintaining closed borders.
>>74064060
ITT: dumb people who think that private enterprises cannot get shit done even though they have been getting unthinkable shit done for hundreds of years a hundred times more efficient than an immoral band of mobster thieves called: the government.
>hurr durr I like roads it's impossible for a private company to build roads
>>74064284
This obviously pisses many people off and the company goes out of business. They clearly showed they are incompetent fucks. Good that there are no dirty monopolies and cartels around that bribed all these powerful government officials. That means this company is on their own ... Nobody there to save their asses.
The world is watching them fail. No puppet Government official on TV telling them that they do everything they can to solve the problem! This lie has been told a million times.
Competitors who are more capable of doing it will take over .. make the sea great again .. take over the companies business. Everyone is happy!
>>74064137
>Recreational nukes
MFW
>>74064416
>>74064662
>It's ok to close borders to migrants in order to protect the local culture, but setting up tariffs and regulations to protect the local economy is a no-no
>this is what closed-borders libertarians believe
Yeah, you might as well go vote for Corbyn, m8
A libertarian society can coexist with social programs, just as a federal republic (Like the US) can coexist with social programs. All I'm saying is that some of the programs are cancerous and are a waste of tax dollars. Extremism with anything is bad, stop trying to look for some sort of altruistic ideology.
>>74064210
And border, more importantly
>>74064640
>Not a single god damn soul will buy from that company again if the spill worsens over time.
What if they don't?
What if they are on the other side of the country and have no reason to give a fuck at all. What if they still buy their gas without a second thought because it's the most affordable?
>>74064640
>Not a single god damn soul will buy from that company again if the spill worsens over time.
pic related
>>74065276
>what is Game Theory
>>74065349
>the average consumer
>rational
>>74065424
>billions of dollars on the line
>nobody is interested in it
mmh
>>74064640
>>74065264
Since there are different shades of libertarianism I won't pretend to answer for all of them, but with regards to this issue the "common solution" happens to be private property. This means that oil spills will happen, but since the coastline and natural reserves are private the company responsible for the accident will be sued to hell and back by every individual landowner affected by it.
And this doesn't include the PR hit and possible boycotts.
>>74064693
Make Sea Great Again!
>>74064060
Building codes
Because the first action upon gaining our independence was securing that independence through strong foreign offensive measures.
>>74065977
This thread has beem stumped. Goodnight shitlords.
>>74064060
because a libertarian government would treat niggers equally, and they don't deserve that
>>74064060
Libertarianism: A system of "govern-ment" (govern: to control. ment, mental: mind) that believes the best form of mind control is one that controls least. The belief that anarchism (a lack of control mind control heirarchies) is better than any other degree of mind controlling within a given geological area.
Remind me why libertarians aren't anarchists again? It is superior in every way libertarians even agree
>>74064620
no but ancaps like libertarians and libertarians like ancaps
https://youtu.be/leeNmVHphFs
>tfw you country was utterly destroyed by incompetent government
>tfw you are watching europe get drowned by sandniggers and political correctness enforced at a gunpoint
>tfw when you say you don't want even more government you get called an edgy anarchist
>>74064060
a lot of ppl think it's sociopathic
http://www.alternet.org/visions/true-history-libertarianism-america-phony-ideology-promote-corporate-agenda
http://dissidentvoice.org/2014/12/chiles-plantation-economy/
http://dissidentvoice.org/2014/12/chiles-plantation-economy/
>>74067985
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/honduras-sold-libertarian-paradise-i-went-and-discovered-capitalist-nightmare
>>74067528
Unlike any other option, it gives you a choice.
You can help anyone, anyhow and anyone is free to seek help anyhow.
The current system is worse morally as it forces you at gunpoint into "helping", which oftentimes doesn't help much anyway.
> Libertarians
Aren't they those sovereign faggots who get up in everyone's business like some retarded child and yells about their legal rights, even though they break laws all the time?
No thanks. Throw all sovereigns in solitary confinement.
>>74067985
>MUH MUH MUH ROADSSSSSSSSSSS
>WHO WILL BUILD THE ROADSSSSSSSSS
Because I'm a Nationalist. Libertarianism is in direct opposition to the existence of a state, and thus the nation.
Libertarianism in my view is the same 'land-of-do-as-you-please' mentality that neo-liberals practice with a fancy new name and logo, so yeah. Nope.
I think a lot of people blow of libertarian ideals as just being 'angsty anarchistic children'
but i cant see how less oppressive laws and a smaller government is bad.
To me in any case, the early United States was a fairly good representation of what they want to achieve. the government wasn't interfering in your daily lives, each state still had plenty of its own sovereign power, but we still came together as a nation. I mean hell, we went over to Libya and kicked the shit out of pirate for bothering us.
I think that just because you like Libertarian ideals, doesnt preclude you from being Nationalistic. You can be proud of your country and want your country to be stronger on a global scale, without submitting yourself to the federal government every night, and sometimes before lunch.
>>74064688
You have to find a way to privatize roads while still maintaining competition. That way the money isn't wasted on the government that isn't doing jack shit to maintain the roads and you won't have high prices bc of competition.
Trucks damage the road thousands times more than normal cars, so the trucks should pay the majority of road prices.
I think toll roads would be amazing if you could somehow introduce competition.
libertarianism is a meme, nice one OP
>>74064060
Because if systems weren't corruptible and people were ready to abide the law we wouldn't need a system to begin with.
Same failings as communism, enables too much power to fall onto the hands of a few who then can break the system and shit on everything.
The communist party won't stay altruistic and selfless, let alone be founded in such a way.
The market won't stay in balance, let alone enter such state.
Same utopian bullshit.
These cancer ideologies that disregard reality are a product of autists who project themselves onto others and think they'd all be touched in the same way.
Systems are corruptible because the vast majority of people aren't autistic enough to follow or love a system. They're just out for themselves, no matter what's put in place by others.
>>74069443
what is buying land next to a bad road and making a new road on it?
>>74067285
There's no such thing as ''less'' government.
''less government'' just means giving your country away to corporate & Jewish & international interest.
The only way is to change the way of government, either by monarchy, natsoc, or rightwing authoritarianism
>>74064060
But we don't...
at all..
>>74064060
"libertarianism" isn't a form of government, just as conservatism isn't a form of government, nor is liberalism.
Now, if you're thinking of anarcho-capitalism, that's another matter. And the problem with ancap is that it doesn't take the human trait of tribalism into account. Just as communism fails because human nature doesn't allow for it, so does anarcho-capitalism.
If there were magically an ancap society, what would happen is natural hierarchy would ensue. Certain people would end up more powerful than others. This isn't a problem in and of itself, but in an ancap society, their land means their rules. That's just another way of saying that this person's property is their own nation with its own government. So you'd end up with a bunch of smallish governments with people living on the land, not unlike the feudal system. And then of course each of them would end up going to war at some point or another, and smaller governments would get knocked out and bigger ones would rise up and coalesce. Suddenly you have a new govenment.
>>74069929
>the problem with no government is that eventually government would come back
JUST
>>74069929
Anarch capitalism is going 6000 years back into history
>>74064137
>>74064153
>>74064169
not an argument
>>74070098
A government would come back that is worse than what you have now. It'd be a monarchy with absolute authority over the people in its land.
And then you'd have to have a french revolution 2.0 to replace it with democracy again and blah blah blah. And you'd just get back to where we are now.
Point being that anarcho-capitalism is inherently unstable.
>>74067079
By Ancap logic, libertarians are hypocrites. Both ideologies recognise the immorality of use of force to coerce and therefore the evil of a state, but Libertarianism arbitrarily says that it becomes moral in small doses.More of a minarchist myself but I do enjoy a bit of Lysander Spooner
>swap Jewish government for a Jewish SJW Corporatocracy
No thanks lol.
We've already had the perfect form of governing and it's gone. It's all downhill from here.
>>74064416
>implying passage through national borders isn't a product to be sold in the free market
I built a Stellaris Empire as Xenophile, Individualist, Materialist and it went well
>>74070559
Libertarianism isn't removal of government absolutely. Its removal of government from the people's personal lives and the market. The government still exists for public service, military, etc but tax is kept to a bare minimum.
>>74070362
>something is bad because I declare without proof that it wouldn't last long
so are orgasms bad because they only last a couple seconds?
you're literally saying like:
Lack of poison is bad because if you have a lack of poison in your body poison will come back in higher concentration then you have now
>>74071131
literally not an argument.
>>74069523
Everything in this can be refuted.
Try again.
>>74070849
And that vacuum left over will be filled by megacorporations. It's actually quite possible that a Libertarian society would eventually morph into some kind of corporate feudalism whereby individuals sign a document of fealty to a corporation in exchange for employment and the opportunity to live in suburbs owned entirely by that particular corporation. The cost to the worker would be excessively long work hours and few rights.
Because corporations need to be regulated and public funds are favorable to privatized services when it comes to essential aspects of our society like healthcare, education and infrastructure.
>>74065349
But that's just a theory...
>>74071387
It will also cause comets from space to explode the earth.
Seriously though, you're just making up scenarios in your head, come back when you have literally any evidence.
>>74071727
If you don't see how what he's saying is completely reasonable, you're an idiot.
There are plenty of nations that have very little government and they're all neo-feudal corporate shitholes.
>>74072113
having less government makes a country better than it would be if it had more
That's not saying it will make a population of shitty unintelligent people perfect, but they are still better off then they were under the mind control
>>74072575
If that's the case, why is almost every single nation with the smallest government a total shithole?
>>74065518
What government will enforce the suits? And how much in this scenario do we assume that government is actively policing corporations in this manner?
>>74072113
but you apparently can't name one.
come back when you have literally any evidence, by which I mean never come back, because there isn't any.
>>74064060
only oppose it as long as it includes open borders.
>>74072844
Africa and south America are packed with examples of governments that interfere minimally in the market, they're all shitholes. Other nations know that in order to have a prosperous and livable nation, public money needs to be pooled for the public good. This is basic shit.
>>74069577
>Systems are corruptible
>Therefore let's give all power to control the lives and resources of the whole country to Cristina to keep things from getting corrupted
As expected of a South American.
>>74072671
I assume you're referring to some 3rd world african shithole.
They have as much government as anywhere else. They are just referred to as 'warlords' or some such term because the savagery is obvious when it isn't your own government doing it.
Also they have a shortage of white people, which are necessary for a society to ever get beyond chucking spears.
>>74072113
Name me ONE (1) geological area in the world in which the vast vast majority of people (99%) have committed for at least a year to refraining from using violence against each other except as a last resort in self defense. Then show me how much of a shit hole it is. Hard mode: Not Antarctica
>>74073042
Funnily enough, south america is actually packed with countries which are hardcore socialist, and they are the biggest shitholes among all
> venezuela
>>74073116
>Name me ONE (1) geological area in the world in which the vast vast majority of people (99%) have committed for at least a year to refraining from using violence against each other except as a last resort in self defense.
That doesn't happen. People are literally wild animals and a particularly aggressive species. What autistic fantasy land are you living in?
>>74073042
>Africa and south America are packed with examples of governments that interfere minimally in the market
>Literally the countries with least economic freedom
>>74073136
All the best nations on Earth are liberal democracies with extensive public services.
>>74073109
Why do you think your system isn't implemented? I'll tell you. People are smarter than you and know that our type of system is the best. They know that getting rid of the state or minimizing it to a rudimentary level will have bad results.
>>74073042
Fuckin name one then.
from how many metres high were you dropped on your head as a baby?
>>74073324
>>74073540
The governments with the smallest state expenditure percent of GDP are all shitholes. The lowest spenders reads like a list of the worst nations on earth. Don't believe me, look at the list for yourselves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending
>>74073672
Congratulations, anon, you just learned of the fact that the more wealth a country produces thanks to more freedom, the more their governments grow, just as any other parasite would.
>>74066324
they'll starve without welfare, and get shot whenever they chimp out.
I have become a monarchist, it is the ultimate red pill, you'll go down all paths but eventually you'll become a monarchist. All roads lead to Rome.
Libertarians don't seem to care about morals (lol just let me do whatever they want no big deal) or securing the borders, two ingredients which I think are vital for a country to survive.
>This kills the libertarian
>>74073909
Projection.
>>74073860
It's percentage of GDP, you're retarded.
>>74073994
REEEEEEEEEE
delete this
>>74073042
>governments that interfere minimally in the market
>South America
Nope. In fact, the shitholes are the ones that interfere the most.
>>74074005
>It's percentage of GDP
No shit.
>>74074005
http://madmonarchist.blogspot.nl/
>>74064060
There is no free market and it can't be one when govern must regulate with basic food and services.
>>74074162
I don't want to be ruled over by a king and neither do most people.
>>74074041
All the richest and best nations are liberal democracies with extensive public programs. It's like you aren't even living in reality.
>>74073672
>oh look, it's a bunch of dictatorships, recently collapsed dictatorships and islamic states.
The only reason their state expenditure is low is because the state lacks the means to extract the money, because they were recently rekt by a big 'ol government.
The autism is extra strong with statists today
>>74074376
I think you're looking at the current picture. Are they rich now because of dem programs, or was it due to an extensive process of wealth accumulation done through (crony) capitalism?
You need to produce wealth first in order to redistribute it later.
>>74074503
what about Somalia, the libertarian dream?
>>74074376
These places are also the ones where you have social justice warriors.
Therefore we must maximise SJWs for the best outcome.
>>74074503
All the richest and best nations on Earth are liberal democracies with extensive public programs, all the nations with minimal government are shitholes. How many times do I have to explain this to you? I wouldn't be throwing around autism accusations if I were you.
>>74064060 klo
>>74074624
SJWs aren't common in every liberal democracy and it's not an aspect of the governing body itself. You really fucking suck at making points buddy.
>>74074585
Both and no you don't It's not redistribution, it's often public investment in the future of the nation in question. Education is an investment in the competence of your population for example.
>>74074600
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Government_of_Somalia
nothing remotely libertarian about somalia.
You people are too easy.
>>74073988
vital for a country maybe
not for an individual :^)
>>74074815
People use the example because it is a failed state. Just because they have a gov doesn't mean it works.
>>74074503
Statists BTFO
>>74073994
>all the nations with minimal government are shitholes
>Literally all decent countries have the governments which interfere the least
>He doesn't understand that the wealth created thereby is what feeds those destructive public programs
>>74074882
>failed state
now now no need to be redundant
>>74074805
No reason to believe that the nature of the current governing body is the source of their success, especially when a lot of these governing bodies are shitting the place up with feminism and 3rd world immigrants.
>>74074959
Meant to quote >>74074628
>>74074628
not an argument
You are just restating the point I already disproved.
You hideous retard.
>>74074971
I wonder if it's stupidity or delusion that causes you to believe that states inherently don't function.
>>74074992
>a state has nothing to do with the state of a nation
You're just shitposting. There really is not way you're this stupid and able to type coherent sentences.
>>74064060
Libertarianism is so disorganized as an ideology it's no wonder it's so off putting to many people.
First of all "minarchism" is illogical. Libertarians like to say they are the most logically and morally consistant ideology and yet some of them still identify as Minarchists. If violence is wrong and thus state coercion is wrong, than its ALWAYS wrong and exceptions to that rule become incredibly hard to justify.
The most logical end point for libertarianism is Anarchy or perhaps Anarcho-capitalism as some like to suggest but even then that implies a standard economic system / view that can't be guarenteed.
True freedom is living your life as an individual the way YOU want to. It's not about being an intellectual libertarian who does nothing but sit around and discuss ideas.
You need to go out and DO things that free yourself and your life from the interference of others. Actions, not words, do a better job convincing others to support a free society. Show people that you can live in a free society by demonstrating how in your own life.
I would consider myself a volyntarist instead of an anarchist simply because Anarchy as a label is associated with retard communists who like to vandalize private property. I think it's the most morally acceptable position to have, and I don't belive that others should be forced to agree with me. As long as they don't try to use violence against me they can belive whatever they want.
Do I think we will ever create a truly free society in my lifetime? No, but it's more important to me that I live my life the way I feel is best than it is to get mad because people don't think the way I do. We can certainly make society freer by convincing others, but it takes actions not just words.
>>74074805
You can sweeten it all you want, it's still redistribution. Public investments are paid with taxes or money creation, so in any case it takes some money from you, whether you like it or not. It may be the case that those public investments positively affect you, but it also creates situations where resources are plainly allocated inefficiently (for example: people that don't choose to get a public college degree subsidize the degrees of those that do, or even worse, subsidize worthless degrees like women's studies)
>>74075293
Yeah, and the alternative to having a state is worse. Not having a state, or having a state that basically does nothing is a bad idea. There are many reasons why we do things the way that we do.
>>74075180
I said that you can't just assume that the state is the reason for success. It is just as plausible that the success occurred despite the state.
You claimed that I said a state has nothing to do with the state of a nation, because that is something you can argue against, even if it isn't at all what I said.
I think you might have forgotten your medication today.
>>74075460
>There are many reasons why we do things the way that we do.
Damn right, anon. What we do is correct because there be reasons we do them.
Hey, hurry up, Mukelele, bring up that virgin already, we have to sacrifice her or the sun god will get mad and send us bad harvests!
>>74075460
Why?
>>74075844
I'm not saying that you can't critically assess it. I'm just trying to get you to consider the possibility that you don't have this figured out yet.
Not having a state is a bad idea. Show me one situation where millions of people coexisted for generations in prosperity without a state.
>>74075922
Law and order, pooling resources to ensure prosperity and high quality of life, figuring out and solving issues as a group rather than apart, organization.
>>74075460
You seem to suggest that the things the state do could not possibly be done privately or in a way that isn't coersive which makes no sense.
It's about attitudes. I don't think you could just drop the state today and expect people to survive. If you transitioned away from state control over people's lives attitudes would change and adapt.
I agree that you can't just shut down the state all in one go and expect things to be good. You certainly need to say "hey, liberty should be our goal so let's advocate for future policy to reflect this" and move that direction.
Most edgy libertarians don't get this or don't communicate this properly. Allowing people to understand the moral importance of a free society is a process.
>>74076077
literally like saying
Not having harmful human viruses is a bad idea: Show me one situation where millions of people coexisted for generations in prosperity without human viruses.
Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it wouldn't be good if it did.
>>74076077
>Law and order, pooling resources to ensure prosperity and high quality of life, figuring out and solving issues as a group rather than apart, organization.
This is perfectly compatible with a minimum-government minarchist system.
>>74076077
>Show me one situation where millions of people coexisted for generations in prosperity without a state.
Show me a situation where they did that without one.
>>74076184
It has happened anon. There are tons of examples of states failing and lands having no government. It never ends well. We don't have to use our imaginations, it doesn't turn out well.
>>74076492
A state falling does not mean that the people also all stopped practicing violence except in self defense...
I'm not arguing for an inconsistent wishy washy libertarian state I want full consistent following of the non agression principle
>>74076657
B-but then you're arguing for a utopia, because full consistent following of the non-aggression principle is a utopia. For example, I wouldn't follow it because it's utopic!
>>74076657
So pure fantasy. You want people to not be people.
People lie, people change their minds and there's no reason to believe these people's kids would agree with their philosophies.
Also, are we talkign about a new nation people just form? Where is there extra land on Earth for that? How do you only get people who want to abide by the NAP?
It's totally ridiculous through and through.
>>74076229
*with one.
Fuck.
>>74076827
Cool flag
>>74077000
so you're not arguing that it's not ideal, instead you are arguing that it's unobtainable and we have to settle for shit and hope it doesn't turn into even more shit? Great argument Statist
wowe
so pragmatic
much cuck
wowow
>>74064060
I'm a libertarian but I'm starting to think over a long time of debating that we're not ready for it yet, there's too many people in society that do not act rationally even when doing so is in their best interest. We need to take preventative measures against them harming people and society at large.
If you're a libertarian for moral reasons and believe in the NAP then think of it as preemptive self defense.
>>74077000
>Getting rid of slavery is pure fantasy, where do we get extra land on Earth to make a non-slavery nation? How do you only get people who don't want to enslave others?
>>74076827
consistent to the extent that people follow their normal morality. Ancapistan couldn't survive a large number of people not following it, but the state can't regulate large numbers anyway. If 5 percent of you decided to shoot any cops you see the government would be incapable of functioning.
>>74077000
He's actually saying what you're saying, that people are people, and that some are inherently evil in the sense that they will initiate agression against you.
I honestly think we can go ancap, provided we discover the institutions needed to enforce and protect property. Look up Lex Mercatoria for an example of an historical ancap institution.
Becaues LOLbertarians are fedoras xD
>>74077133
Yeah that's exactly what I'm saying. It's unobtainable, it's a fantasy.
>>74077318
An-cap is stupid for the same reasons I've been saying all thread.
>>74077228
Address the first part.
>>74077341
This guy is actually snazzy looking, though.
>>74077464
>Address the first part.
Yeah, and non-enslavers' kids could grow up to want to be enslavers. How is that an argument against getting rid of slavery?
>>74077464
So you didn't look up Lex Mercatoria. I don't blame you for thinking ancap is stupid; people in general believe in the superstition of the state, and even I have some qualms with ancap. I say we try minarchism first, or set up private communities in New Hampshire and show the world whether this shit could work in practice or not.
>>74077318
Have you read The Enterprise of Law: Justice Without the State? I haven't (it's on my to read list), but, from the synopsis of the book that I've read, it seems to attempt to answer your concern more thoroughly than other books (at least those which I have actually read).
>>74078009
Haven't finished it yet, but it's from there that I read about the Lex Mercatoria and other ancap/customary law systems.
>>74077868
I'm not talking about the morality, I'm saying it's impossible. Practically it wouldn't work, thus it's a total fantasy. You want a whole nation of people to abide by one principle eternally and that just won't happen.
>>74077894
It's not superstition, it's verifiable fact that stability and prosperity of millions of people needs to be mediated by a state.
>>74078134
>You want a whole nation of people to abide by one principle eternally and that just won't happen.
So what the hell are you doing talking about ideas? No ideas will be held by the whole world eternally so by your own claim supporting or being against any idea is pointless. Pretty fucking nihilistic.
>>74078109
Ah. I think you should also read The State by Franz Oppenheimer. There is some discussion about maritime states of antiquity which tended to be prosperous trading hubs which tyrants actually found more profitable to leave alone. I hadn't heard of the term Lex Mercatoria until now, but I can remember Franz describing similar traditions.
Frans was, unfortunately, a socialist, so he has some anti-capitalist bias but it's uncommon. The most important feature of the book is Franz's theory of the genesis of the state.
>>74078454
Your idea of this nation entirely depends on the vast majority of members abiding by a principle on their own volition in place of a state enforcing principles.
>>74064346
Construction crews, health inspectors and firemen already work privately on many occasions.
>>74078591
Will do, thanks.
>>74074882
>somalia
>proving ancaps, minarchist or libertarians wrong
http://www.cfr.org/somalia/better-off-stateless-somalia-before-after-government-collapse/p10120
http://www.cato-unbound.org/2007/08/06/peter-t-leeson/anarchy-unbound-or-why-self-governance-works-better-you-think
https://mises.org/library/anarchy-somalia
>Anarco Capaitalism
>not an oxymoron
>>74073672
and here are the top country's in the economic freedom index.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom
>>74079812
I'd like to add to this that Somalia's low macroeconomic performance statistics are a result of lack of government and a huge informal sector (in other words, there is no government or institution to report the statistics), so when you consider the informal sector it is actually higher.
>>74079959
>any form of anarchism that isn't anarcho-individualist
>not a complete and total impossible paradox
>>74079960
What this even means?A country can spend a lot and still have economic freedom.
>>74080125
Anarcho socialism has no hierarchy, so it is not a paradox. In fact the libertarian term was first used to describe anarcho socialism, anarcho capitalism steal the term in the recent years.
>>74080132
It means that freedom creates wealth before government can squander it.
>>74080132
>what does this mean?
The score is based off of a combination of how much of a country's gdp is taxed and how much their markets are regulated. So I think this is pretty related to this topic.
>>74080733
This index is retarded, it does not show anything; ie: Switzeland has one of the higher income taxes and Hong kong has one of the lower.
>The Heritage Foundation
>An index created by a conservative think tank
>Funded by a lot o big corporations that don't want regulations to their market.
>>74080584
You can't prevent a hierarchy from forming unless you have some sort of instution that uses force to prevent said hierarchy from forming, I.E. A state.
Also socalisim is extremely fucking retarded in every sense, in terms economics, politics everything. Only a retard would consider it a legitimate system
>>74064137
>>74064153
>>74064169
>>74080584
>In fact the libertarian term was first used to describe anarcho socialism, anarcho capitalism steal the term in the recent years.
Not even close to true. The term libertarian was first used to describe some right wing enlightenment philosers as early as 1789, long before socalisim came about.
Fuckin hues
>>74081306
Anarcho capitalism that is retarded, anarcho socialism has real life examples like Catalunia in Spain civil war, Ucraine free state and in some forms Rojava in Syria.
>>74081557
Libertarian had been used before Dejacque but not in a political sense, only in metaphysics.
>>74081734
So your only examples are failed states?
Moreover, how are these groups planning to stop me from acquiring private property?
>>74064137
I hope you don't actually think this image is true
A libertarian society gives power to the people, any organization can counter the things they consider to be immoral.
Any sane community would have this guy incarcerated on a whim if they found out he was doing these things.
>>74081220
Actually Switzerland only taxes 29.4% of its gdp compared to the United States which is 26.9. Not a big difference. Also what people don't know about Switzerland is they have very open and free trade. Also their markets are not very highly regulated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP
Self-ownership exists.
Taxation is theft.
Prove me wrong.
>>74081834
There is no private property, from whom would you buy anything.
But there is no one holding you in this society, so you could just leave it.
>>74081970
I'm talking about rich people taxes, for they have a progressive taxation system, and diferent from USA they have a big govermment safety-net.
>>74081979
The social contract. It isn't theft since you consent to it by staying.
>>74082399
>There is no private property, from whom would you buy anything.
>But there is no one holding you in this society, so you could just leave it.
So whats to prevent me from setting up shop in your little community, builing a fence and a house, and taking a gun and saying "this is my land now, get the hell off it"?
>>74071379
Then refute it.
>>74082502
So a housewife consents to beatings if she stays with an abusive husband?
>>74082903
Yes. If you don't like it, leave.
>>74082502
The Shaka Shaka Boom La contract. You consent to it by breathing.
>asking to be cucked by corporations even more than already
>>74082976
And what gives the state the authority to exercise the social contract over all who live in its borders?
>>74082399
>Generally, we can conclude that the total personal income tax rate in Switzerland doesn’t exceed 40%.
http://www.nomoretax.eu/living/relocation-to-switzerland/
highest income tax rate in the U.S. is 39.6%. Once again not a huge difference.
>>74083122
>muh contracts!!1111!!!
>>74082976
She doesn't consent. She just stays because she's afraid that the consequences of leaving would be worse than the consequences of the beatings, such as being chased or rejected by society.
>>74082511
You can have your personal property, like you house, car, etc.
And that's why anarcho capitalism is an oxymoron, because while in anarcho socialism you can protect you personal property with a gun without the need for a state or govermnet, but in anarcho capitalism nothing impedes your workes from taking your shit, hence the need for private security agencies forming another king of goverment in the process.
>>74082903
Well yeah, it happens in the current system too. The husband will get arrested because somebody else saw, or there was clear evidence, and the wife will do everything she can to get the case thrown out or ruined.
>>74064060
niggers
>>74083122
You remain in the state, therefore you accept its law. If you don't like it, leave. If you don't leave, you like it.
>>74083210
But what would stop me from aquiring that property?
>>74083075
>it's better to be cucked by corporations and government than to be cucked by just the corporations
Your first mistake was to assume the government is on your side.
>>74083288
>I am superior because i am "white"
>>74083351
It's not, but it can be made to work on our side. Meanwhile corporations can't
>>74064169
YES !!!
finally someone fucking gets us
>>74083155
Your house? Nothing.
>>74083351
>There is democracy in big corporations guys
Don't talk shit my man
>>74064060
>libertarianism
>>74083297
That doesn't answer my question.
What gives the state the authority to enforce its contract just because someone lives in an area of land?
>>74083429
>but it can be made to work on our side.
Yeah. Governments pander to whoever is more convenient at the time, to secure their political power. You just want to be part of this minority that's currently convenient to support, usually at the expense of others.
>>74083589
Fuck off lefty/pol/.
You are far and away the worst tripfag on the board.
You don't have any actual arguements, you just post a bunch of memes.
>>74083555
They are like that autistic child that spergs out constantly by every little shit.
In the beggining they humour us, and we even play a little with them. But after sometime, they are just annoying
>>74083754
>calling others annoying
>while being a retarded leftist tripfag
Oh the irony.
It's time to abandon the thread. Leftypol has arrived and his autism is flowing everywhere. He hasn't read a single piece of libertarian literature, he constantly misconstrues libertarian philosophy, he rejects economics as a bourgeoisie boogie-man, and he even admits to not having read Marx. Stop fucking posting.
>>74083595
I was just taking the piss.
>>74083605
Hey hue, you've yet to answer my question:
What is to stop me from aquiring private property in an "anarcho"-socialist socitey?
>>74083595
>What gives the state the authority to enforce its contract just because someone lives in an area of land?
You give it. With tacit consent.
>Yeah. Governments pander to whoever is more convenient at the time, to secure their political power. You just want to be part of this minority that's currently convenient to support, usually at the expense of others.
This is how it's organized today. But it can change. And change is somewhat possible from the inside
>>74083706
>You are far and away the worst tripfag on the board.
From a libertarian, it's great to hear this.
>You don't have any actual arguements
This is a libertarian thread, arguments don't belong here, only feels
>>74083867
I hear you man
Lefty/pol/ is far and away the worst poster on the board.
>>74083551
Big corporations only exist because of government.
>be big food chain company
>be sick and tired of these smaller chains competing with me
>lobby for a new law requiring all restaurants to put this very expensive chemical compound on their food
>claim it's for "public health"
>smaller chains take the hit and become less competitive
Even the companies who produce this expensive chemical can help you lobby for the new legislation, because it would increase the demand for it.
Without a government, similar things might happen, like a big company spreading rumors around that this expensive chemical compound is fundamental to preventing all sorts of illness, but it's all over as soon as the hoax is discovered. With a government-enforced legislation, it would take a lot longer to undo the stupidity.
>>74083813
How is that even an argument
>WAAAAAAAH HE DOSEN'T LIKE CLASSIC LIBERALISM HE MUST BE A LEFTIST
>>74083813
You got me there.
http://raikoth.net/libertarian.html
>>74083867
>It's time to abandon the thread. Leftypol has arrived and his autism is flowing everywhere. He hasn't read a single piece of libertarian literature, he constantly misconstrues libertarian philosophy, he rejects economics as a bourgeoisie boogie-man, and he even admits to not having read Marx. Stop fucking posting.
Thank you. You could at least give me a juicy (you)
>>74083919
I don't know. Maybe the return of Jesus and he tells everyone Karl Marx was right all along?
There are two BRs ITT. Are you sure you're replying to the right one?
>>74083919
There is no private property your retard, from whom would adquire it, the means of production are owned by workers coops.
>>74083998
But I don't consent.
In fact I quite vocally state the fact that I don't consent. So that's not an argument.
And moreover, that's an argumentum ad populum: most everyone consents, so that makes it right
>>74084065
>Big corporations only exist because of government.
And technology, yeah? How do you expect to be a multinational if people still use stones to farm land?
>>74084194
>There is no private property
Do you believe in self-ownership?
>>74083867
Could /pol/ be anymore of a fucking echo-box oh no someones saying something I don't like quick call him an autist and provide no argument what so ever.
>>74084249
Non sequitur.
>>74084235
>But I don't consent.
So leave our society paid by our txes and live innawoods. The IRS won't demand taxes if you leave in the middle of fucking nowhere.
>B-B-BUT I WANT ALL THE PERKS OF OUR SOCIETY WITHOUT PAYING TAXES!!!! IT'S UNFAIR!!!! WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>74084092
His name is fucking lefty/pol/ anon, you illiterate
>>74084188
Well I feel like a retard. Should have looked closer at the ID. Sorry about that.
>>74084194
But what is to prevent me from taking a gun and saying: this is my land now, everyone who doesn't like that can leave or get shot?
>>74084065
If there is a big corporation and the smaller one is on the stocket market, there is nothing stoping the big corporation from buying the smaller one, without the need to lobby for anything.
Also
>He thinks captalism exist without the state
LMAO
>>74084235
>most everyone consents, so that makes it right
Who said it's right or wrong? I just said people agree by staying. If you are taking it in the ass and you continue still, you are agreing to take it in the ass
>>74084380
That doesn't answer the question. What gives the state the right to enforce the contract?
And don't reply with another fallacious ad populum argument
Its capitalism.
>>74084332
Educa-te pah
https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur
Dutch highschool history books teach us that the Great Depression was a failure of the free market and that it marked the end of the era of free markets, and that the government intervention fixed it. New Deal is also highly praised.
How much does this trigger libertarians
>>74084380
They will if you build a farm or a factory that's productive enough, or if you get your family and friends to move with you in a small villa.
>you can live freely if you want
>but only under these very specific ways
>such as being poor or in a village up to a number of people
>otherwise, we'll tax you right back!
>>74084478
Not right as in right or wrong, right as in the entitlement. Rights as in the bill of rights, not good or evil or left or right
>>74084235
Your parents consented to it by remaining in this society, as did their parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc, and you continue to consent to it by remaining in this society. If you don't want to be ruled by a government, go live someplace where the government will never find you.
>>74084575
What's the relation between government and technology?
>>74084431
You would be ostracized from society in the better case, or BTFO in the worst.
>>74084431
How is that an argument though stating that somebody has left wing economic belifes is just stating something.
>>74084650
That doesn't answer the question.
What goves the state the inherent right to enfocre the contract. An appeal to the majority doesn't give the state the right.
So in what society do psychopaths function better, a bureaucracy or a classical liberal one? I'm thinking that alpha psychopaths do better in the latter, and beta psychopaths in the former.
>>74084713
It wasn't meant to be an argument.
I've tried actually arguing with that tripfag. It's a lesson in futility.
I'm mearly calling him a faggot and telling him to fuck off.
>>74084711
BTFO by who?
>>74064060
>libertarianism
How do you keep a libertarian government in control when the majority of people vastly prefer having some fuckhuge government taking care of everything they don't give two shits about?
Better point, how to libertarian in a country full of niggers and spics
>>74084431
>His name is fucking lefty/pol/ anon, you illiterate
So?
>>74084510
>That doesn't answer the question. What gives the state the right to enforce the contract?
This is why no one gives a fuck about you guys. What are you expeting me to say? Nothing gives the state the right to enforce the contract. Wow, so now all the states are disapearing, wow.
I and almost everyone don't give a fuck about that. Mug rights and legitimacy. God you guys are insuferable cunts.
>>74084913
>This is why no one gives a fuck about you guys. What are you expeting me to say?
So you admit the state has no inherent right to emforce the social contract?
>>74084456
Unless someone forced the smaller company to sell shares on the stock market, I don't see anything wrong with that.
Do you really think the local bakery would make a big deal out of being available on the stock market? Yet, they would still be affected by, for example, a law that requires X chemical to be put on bread.
>He thinks captalism exist without the state
Just like a farmer wouldn't exist without his farm.
Democracy is just a fancy word for a system where unproductive people can live stealing the surplus production from productive people.
>>74064060
Because Stormfags, Muslims and Commies will use the freedom we give them to take away ours.
Make helicopter rides great again
>>74085008
You don't understand libertarians do you?
We're not an-caps
>>74084836
Fair enough
>>74084614
Don't engage in monetary transaction, you retard. Use barter system. By using money you are using our society resources, so you should pay taxes.
>you can live freely if you want
>but only under these very specific ways
WAHHHHH I CAN'T MURDER FREELY!!111!! WHY IS THE GUBMENT OBRESSING ME!!!!!111!!!))))====??????
>>74084741
>An appeal to the majority doesn't give the state the right.
Good thing I never made an appeal to the majority.
By choosing to live in land that is ruled by a government, you implicitly consent to being ruled by a government. If you don't want to be ruled by a government, go live on a piece of land that is not ruled by a government, such as 90% of russia and canada.
>>74084884
If there is people living in that land, or a worker coop owns it they will take care of you with their own guns.
>>74084700
That is not what i implied. I said that large corporations exist today it's not because of gov, but becuase of tecnhology.
>>74084324
I don't want a world that is an echobox. I want a world that lacks the tripfag leftypol. He has been around for months, I know what he's like.
>>74084650
Deuteronomy 24:16 - The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
>>74085065
Even in a libertarian society, you give them not the freedom to take away your freedom, but you do give them the necessary infrastructure (they can buy guns, they can organize, they can indoctrinate) to take away your freedom, so it's still weak beta nu-malish. I'm a monarchist myself
>>74084836
>I've tried actually arguing with that tripfag. It's a lesson in futility.
Lol
> i can't argue with him,so i will just call him a aggot
>>74085082
Fine, we'll just print our own currency.
Oh, wait, that's illegal. Tough luck, pal...
>>74085083
>By choosing to live in land that is ruled by a government, you implicitly consent to being ruled by a government.
That is based off the assumption that the government has the inherent right to enforce it's social contract over anyone living in the land it calls its own.
I'm asking what gives it the right to do that.
>>74085065
Those groups are allowed to vote in a libertarian society, and they're willing to use all sorts of dirty tricks that Libertarians usually aren't.
This is obviously the general, not the universal rule, but its what fucks over Libertarian movements and keeps them out of power.
>>74064060
Um...
>Over fishing
>Planned obsolescence
>Inefficiency in healthcare
>No roads
>get shot
Just at the top of my head.
>>74085277
I'll do better than call you a fagot, I'll call you a retarded faggot double-nigger
>>74085160
Governments still make corporations bigger than what they should be.
The pros of having a government don't outweigh the cons.
>>74084974
>So you admit the state has no inherent right to emforce the social contract?
I couldn't literally care less about that. Answered your question?
>>74085175
Why are you guys so mad at me?
Because it's fiction. Just like a diverse and free Liberal Utopia where everything is peaceful and everyone is happy
