"The god of the old testament is not the God of the new testament. They are two different gods. The first is a god who applies the law and punishes, whereas the other is a God of love who always forgives. The two are irreconcilable"
What is your opinion of this /pol/?
I think it's not true, but I'll keep looking at this post as I find this question interesting
>>73986319
Most Christians in the West these days are New Testament hipsters.
>>73986319
They both punish and forgive, just the degree is different
>>73986319
that's why Jesus was invented to fix the old Gd
>>73986319
God is an allegory for the Sun anyways, and Satan, is an allegory for Saturn.
>>73986319
Gnosticism makes a lot more sense than mainstream Christianity, which almost always needs to make these ridiculous logical leaps to attempt to reconcile the contradictions between the old and new testament.
Everybody seems to ignore the fact that massive collections of early Christian texts were destroyed for being deemed "heretical" despite many of them being perfectly legitimate and honest, while texts with many obvious errors (Gospel according to Mark) were left alone simply because they fit the established narrative - the one heavily influenced by the Roman state so as to establish a means of control over the population. You don't need to be a genius to see Mark was not written by anyone who lived within 100 years, or even 500 kilometers of Christ, and yet it is treated as if it is infallible.
>>73987341
Yeap
>>73987517
not Venus? doesn't Lucifer, or הֵילֵל, or heylel literally mean "morning star" in Hebrew? Since Venus is seen in our skies at dawn and at dusk it is referred to as the morning star.
>>73988861
you have to be a pretty stupid christian to go to Israel to proselytize. Is Mecca your next stop?
>>73989337
Nope, Mecca comes before Israel on proselytizing tour schedule.
>>73989153
You are thinking into right direction...
>>73986319
Have you EVER read the Bible? The Father is not some bloodlust beast and The Son is not some hippie.
Also, Gnosticism is a heresy.
>>73986319
Well it's pretty obvious from reading the bible. Some Christians need to obey authority figures who tell them they're the same and they believe it and will defend it. Those capable of critical thinking and objectivity will realize they are not the same.
The jew testament's purpose seems to have been to convert jews and Abrahamic heretics. They didn't convert. They either remained jews or later on became muslims. Tear that fucker out of the bible and also tear out Revelation which is a Monatist corruption of the gnostic version and it references the jew testament too much.
Even Jesus quoted scripture from the jew testament (from the Greek Septuagint btw) in borderline mockery
>>73986319
Christianity is retarded.
The god of the old testament (LORD/YHWH) issued the ten commandments.
Christ said not the least stroke of the pen would disappear from the law until heaven and earth disappear.
Tldr, ignoring the old testament is absolute Hersey but also morally upright
>>73986319
Jesus won't punish us just cast evildoers into the eternal furnace where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Friendly hippie :^)
>>73989835
>Also, Gnosticism is a heresy.
Catholicism is a heresy. But it won out. Just like how Phariseeism, a judaic heresy, became de facto judaism.
If you're a Protestant then you are a heretic yourself you know
>>73986319
Having a kid can really mellow you out
>>73989977
>Catholicism is a heresy
Yeah, right...
weird
http://www.historyextra.com/qa/bath%E2%80%99s-reincarnated-heretics
>>73986319
He's a god of love but also justice.
>>73990087
Catholicism is complete horseshit
This is now an Orthodoxy thread.
>>73986319
The Lord of this earth and matrix is the creator and the destroyer, he is the villain as he created all and knew all before hand.
As hard as that is to accept, he also made the rules around his son, as the entry way into the next level.
This is just the rules of the matrix.
>>73986319
Cleansing the earth of degenerates is loving and caring. God didn't change, he is just biding his time before unleashing the cleansing fires for the last time.
>>73989635
6/6/2016 Venus will bring the morning star.
>>73986319
It's an attempt to distill God into something palatable for those who have no desire to live in a godly manner. While it's pleasant to think of God as all-forgiving all the time, this line of thinking fails to address the accompanying truth, that in order to do this God must have the whole of Creation at His command, in totality.
For God to be both all-powerful and all-forgiving in the sense that everyone gets into the heavenly kingdom, as aspects of the Christian Left would have you believe, this would mean that ultimately an individual's divineness is forced into the mold of what is acceptable. Since no one can be left behind as we move to the New Creation, a person's sins and faults are ultimately inconsequential. This says both that individual persons agency is entirely inconsequential, in life or death, and that heaven will be filled with square pegs who have been forcibly changed to fit into round holes. In essence all people, even those who have no interest in God, will inevitably be dragged forcibly into a relationship with God which they may not want, and they will be forced to like it.
The alternative, the God of justice and punishment, is one which holds persons accountable for their actions but in no way denies them access to forgiveness. A decision to follow such a God means that one is living out a life of their own volition, and while they may backslide, God may still claim responsibility over them, as He does all Creation, and forgive them their faults. The decision to behave in a godly manner is itself glorification of God and also communion with God, and also with other human creatures.
So the statement is partially true: we have created two different understandings of God, but it would be best to try and avoid cutting them down to simplistic statements like 'forgives' and 'punishes'
A littke off topic. Other than the authority of the pope...what is the difference between eastern orthodix and roman catholic (before vatican 2 of course)
>>73990592
Get a life, leaf.
>>73986319
There is no confusion. It is already reconciled, and has been reconciled for 2000 years. The only thing sadder than these bait threads disguised as intelligent debate, is the poor misguided souls who post in them thinking it's intelligent debate.
The Old Testament is God being a dick in order to create the nation of Israel. That's it. Abraham, the revelation to Moses, the kings and the prophets were all God creating the nation of Israel, and THE PROPHECY OF THE COMING MESSIAH.
with me so far?
The New Testament is the fulfilling of the prophecy so that God can spread His message to the rest of the world. CHRIST WAS THE FULFILLMENT OF THAT PROPHECY.
the Gnostics were a 1st century cult. They got a lot of things wrong. Go read their wiki page, but what it basically comes down to is "You don't get to make up new shit", and the shit they made up didn't go along with Christ's teachings.
>>73992192
To answer your question, the schism between Eastern Orthodox and Western Christianity is a concept called "filioque".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filioque
>>73992203
Polish visiting germanistan
The catholic church keeps us down and stupid. 95% of Poles never touched the bible. Reform my brother.
>>73986319
Incorrect.
>>73993227
>the shit they made up didn't go along with Christ's teachings.
Neither do the majority of the church's teachings today
>>73986319
Jews got the nature of God wrong. Jesus came and fixed it.
It's essentially Christian tantra, just as Hermeticism was Hellenic tantra.
Good shit, but don't get too caught up in the mind>matter maxim. They go hand in hand, one is not more important than the other.
>>73993617
It's actually correct.
>>73993227
>the Gnostics were a 1st century cult. They got a lot of things wrong.
Wasn't their main statement that the world is evil, hence God must be evil so worship Satan, our saviour from this evil domain?
>>73993617
Thats your response.
Wow, a real master de-bater you are.
>>73993227
>The Old Testament is God being a dick in order to create the nation of Israel
God could have easily just empowered Israel with a snap of his fingers, similarly he could have forgiven mankind for their sins with another snap of his fingers, no sacrifice necessary.
>>>73993952
Dont mind him sven. Hes a cocklicker
>>73993952
>Wasn't their main statement that the world is evil, hence God must be evil so worship Satan, our saviour from this evil domain?
where do you even get this bullshit from, Steve Anderson videos?
>>73993980
Without immediately resorting to calling you "fedoracore" or whatever, I'll respond with the fact you're right, as that is part of the definition of "omnisicence", however it says something about the nature of God's relationship with mankind, and the obvious nature of mankind in that God would see the need to cultivate a certain "people" and culture in order to bring about a messiah, doesn't it? And hence, millennia of religious debate and scholarship...
>>73994094
Is Putin not funding you a proper education, because what kind of a dumb counter question is that?
>>73993227
>the Gnostics were a 1st century cult.
Actually, they were a number of different sects (plural) that lasted from the 1st to 4th century. Heresiologists lumped them into one group for the sake of convenience.
>>73986319
God is dead
>>73993952
Do you wish to actually give an argument for Marcionism?
>>73994562
>India saying this
>>73994460
>i have nothing to respond with
Well memed. Even Valentinians, who had the most batshit theology out of all Gnostic sects, of which there were many, never ever considered worshipping Satan to be acceptable.
read more before you talk shit
>>73993549
The core of Christianity is the Church
Christ created a Church, not a Bible
The Bible is known to be infallible because the Church, which is infallible, identified it as such.
But retards like you talk about "reform" when they truly mean corruption of the dogma so that it fits their desires.
>>73993963
There is nothing to debate. Jesus constantly talks about God the Father and how they are the same. Everything There can't be several gods, because being God implies perfection. If there are several, they are defined by things that the other ones lack, so they aren't perfect. All these heresies have been debunked the moment they were born centuries ago. Only people who know nothing about Christianity or theology take them seriously. They are like a bad fanfic.
>>73986319
Horseshit. Jesus outright states that he is the God of the Old Testament, and the people he is talking to attempt to stone him for it.
>>73994576
Your thoughts. They're all over the place.
>>73994620
You responded with practically nothing of value, I just continued the shitposting.
If you won't put up a proper argumentative base I won't either, you responded to me.
>>73993952
No. Their philosophy centered around the "demiurge"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge
Any time you see "Books left out of the Bible!" type clickbait, it's usually gnostic rambling and apocrypha.
>>73994800
Where does any major Gnostic gospel or document or theological debate talks in favor of Satan woship.
Present your case
>>73994845
>Any time you see "Books left out of the Bible!" type clickbait, it's usually gnostic rambling and apocrypha.
So during the foundation of the bible, the various sects of Christianity that got together to make the bible knew and rejected Gnosticism on purpose because?
>>73994771
>The Bible is known to be infallible because the Church, which is infallible, identified it as such.
wew lad
>>73995009
I began with a question, Babushka. You responded with a shitpost.
>>73995018
>rejected Gnosticism on purpose because?
because Gnostics went overboard with rejecting the material
>>73995018
Because you don't get to make up new shit. You build on the foundations of (what was then) the books of the Old Testament (which is a collection of books -- where the term "biblios" or "bible" comes from) and the books and manuscripts of what would become the New Testament: the teachings of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, John of Patmos, Saul of Tarsus (who would become Paul) etc. The demiurge and the other philosophies of the gnostics were based on Greek philosophies, and weren't straight from Jewish sources (like Jesus).
Think of gnosticism as cosplay based on fanfiction. It was all made-up new shit based on something cool and important. All the different versions of Christianity down through the ages are basically philosophical differences with the meaning of different things, and are not fanfic. The Gnostics were so deep into their fanfic they made up their own community out in the desert and got into cosplay.
>>73986319
Maybe god found Christ and reformed? Nothing says god can't change his mind he does so several times in the bible.
>>73995886
>Think of gnosticism as cosplay based on fanfiction.
All I get is that this is your own opinion and that the Gnostics didn't have enough political power at the time to compete with was to become the Catholics.
My fedora tips at you.
>>73993980
Perhaps God operates on his own laws, and doesn't break them, leaf.
Perhaps there is a strength to be found in controlling one's self.
He could do as you said, but being the bearer of metaphysical principles which are his own, why should he defy himself to fulfill the wants of mankind? He shouldn't, and he doesn't. Without us having the capacity to sin, there would be no one who is truly virtuous. When God deems that there is a sacrifice necessary for us to be forgiven, it's necessary.
>>73995118
In order to try to deny this you will have to deny all religion ending in a completely absurd situation, since you remove revealed Truth and tradition
>>73993963
Don't be mad, he's just a tripfag who thinks he's an authority on everything religious because he's read through the Catechism a couple of times and is working on a PhD in burger flipp--I mean philosophy.
Take the redpill of religion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absurdism?wprov=sfla1
>>73996224
Those are just your fantasies about political powers. They were just heretics with a poorly made fanfiction that went through some retard's head, and isn't grounded on any teaching, any tradition or witness
>>73996224
>opinion
Well, you're welcome to it, and I'll defend to the death your right to uphold your own opinions. But what I'm telling you is based on years of study and dedication. I debate this stuff because I believe it's important and I love getting at the truth.
Right now, the West is under assault from an enemy that believes fervently in its own philosophy; two enemies in fact
>Muslims
>The shitheads who let the Muslims in
We would all be better off knowing the foundations of Western Civ, even if we don't necessarily call ourselves "Christians", or we'll become just minority citizens in some globalist's Marxist New World Order.
Peace.
>>73996613
>Those are just your fantasies
>poorly made fanfiction that went through some retard's head
Spain knows best how to create irony.
>>73996809
It's not my fault that you want to somehow try to defend some idiots who don't think about what they say.
>>73996563
absurdism is retarded and so are you for being taken in by it
>>73996786
>Well, you're welcome to it, and I'll defend to the death your right to uphold your own opinions.
I doubt that. You might speak up if it's safe about my right to hold contrary opinions, but the moment a person levels a gun, the game is out.
>I debate this stuff because I believe it's important and I love getting at the truth.
I fancy these topics too, but more out of a historical point of view.
I don't actually believe these people had divine documents. We're a species of imaginative and creative mammals on a rock in space. The world is confusing and thinking we're the pinnacle of creation helps put things into context, but it's the wrong context. It's a useless context as well because you cannot predict anything with it, you cannot see any patterns.
You cannot even predict that to every philosophy is a counter philosophy. The trend is shifting, Muslims are getting more unwelcome by the rise of right-wing and centrist parties in Europe. The Leftists that let them in are falling out of favour.
>>73997084
And it's not my fault that you think I'm defending anything of the sort.
>>73997428
Sure, you just say how the poor gnostics just weren't heard because they didn't have enough political power in the political contest
>>73989977
>polish
>posting a picture of of Augustine
>thinking there is any fucking way he could be a protestant
Gnosticism is an absolute heresy you moron, virtually no other Christians will agree with you.
>>73997575
Where do you think Christianity would be if the Roman Empire never adopted it?
Where would Islam be if Mohamed never conquered anything?
Its all about political power
>>73986319
He built the railroads for our sins.
>>73986319
The New Testament God is more tolerant only because the ones who wrote it were influenced by stoicism. The common thing among these two faces of God is that they are both memes, made by people who were influenced by other memes.
>>73997835
No, since Christianity was born suffereing complete persecution and defamation. Your political power means nothing here. Heretics are just heretics, people who create tales trying to twist the truth. And they just don't succeed, because their lies are identified.
If you think the New Testament God doesn't punish, ask what happens why you don't repent or accept Christ.
If you don't think the Old Testament God forgives, look him many times He orgave the Jews as they wandered the desert for 40 years. Literally fucking up badly every three pages.
The difference in demeanor was Christ's death for our sins.
>>73986319
I would become a gnostics myself if their books weren't fake.
They have a lot of thing that make sense, but again, having fake books do not help
>>73986319
Technically I'm a Seventh Day Adventist, can someone red pill me on my religion? I don't really practice anymore but I'm curious about my family's heritage.
>>73986319
God saw what minsters the Jews became, and turned over a new leaf.
>>73997575
>you just say how the poor gnostics just weren't heard because they didn't have enough political power in the political contest
I don't understand what you find false about this statement. Any religious-political movement requires power to advance, else nobody will listen.
>Know thyself
wow what a deplorable heresy
>>73986319
I contend that religion Is a mechanism intended to give purpose to a meaningless existence. To give hope to the people. It was probably very Important in the act of raising society. Fake or not, it's for the greater good I like to think.
>>73998581
Monsters*
>>73998204
>No, since Christianity was born suffereing complete persecution and defamation.
> Your political power means nothing here.
>The Vatican has no political power. Churches have no political power over kings and emperors.
>I'm serious you guys, Christianity was like, adopted, because it was like, reasonable and stuff. The Vatican and kings thought it was cool and true, not attracted to the power behind the religion.
>>73989538
Jew's confirmed for gay as fuck.
>>73998677
Again, that is false. Christianity was born in a completely powerless situation, where the followers just got terrible deaths.
You think you understand the world, that it is as simple, little and limited as you. It isn't, and all your great theories about politics fall apart the moment someone easily gives a counter example. You try to be "deep", and cynical, as if you had solved some kind of puzzle, but you just try to simplify things so that they fit into your small head.
>>73998204
>since Christianity was born suffereing complete persecution and defamation
Back when it was still a tiny cult, sure. And if it had stayed that way it would've remained a tiny cult.
Communism was small too until they took Russia and spread it through them.
>>73999270
Communism had the entire Jewish influence behind it. Christianity had the entire Jewish influence AGAINST it.
>>73998902
The vatican has no political powers, since it is the jews who have it. If the vatican has political powers, the principles of the Church would be reflected into the world's politics and way of thinking, and neither is true, since the world is going the other way. As you can see, the moment kings and emperor don't use the Church as the basis of their morals, the world turns into garbage and hedonism.
Also, I would like you to describe the huge political power of the Vatican when Christianity was born and expanded. In around 100AD.
Christianity was adopted because, even though it meant being persecuted, it was the Truth. the problem with your retarded arguments is that they require a chain of power that goes to the begining of the religion. This is true wit, for example, Islam, since Muhammed was a warlord that constantly conquered, but as I ahve told you (and you conv3eniently don't respond to), the origin of Christianity is pure suffering. There are plenty of other religions which had i hand much more power, and they are all dead. The religion with more power, judaism, has a very little amount of followers. Everything in reality contradicts your absurd theories. You might start thinking about saying something beyond
>m-muh evil Vatican
>>73999268
>Again, that is false. Christianity was born in a completely powerless situation, where the followers just got terrible deaths.
Doubtful. If you're referring to the Roman persecution of the Christians, it was just exactly because the Christians weren't powerless. They were a political threat to the Romans, until Constantine adopted the religion because of an increase in support for it.
>You think you understand the world, that it is as simple, little and limited as you. It isn't, and all your great theories about politics fall apart the moment someone easily gives a counter example. You try to be "deep", and cynical, as if you had solved some kind of puzzle, but you just try to simplify things so that they fit into your small head.
This is just your projection.
>>73999270
And since it was a tiny cult with no power, that involved a lot of suffering in an environment with many other religions with powerful people who went actively against it, according to you it should have died instantly.
>>73988616
>You don't need to be a genius to see Mark was not written by anyone who lived within 100 years, or even 500 kilometers of Christ, and yet it is treated as if it is infallible.
Don't you mean Matthew? Mark was written somewhere withing 50 years after Jesus death.
>>73993549
>95% of Poles never touched the bible.
And God bless them for it! Last thing we need is more people listening to this jewish-supremacy horseshit.
>>73999783
>If you're referring to the Roman persecution of the Christians, it was just exactly because the Christians weren't powerless. They were a political threat to the Romans, until Constantine adopted the religion because of an increase in support for it.
Romans, jews and more or less anyone else. They wer completely powerless, and trying to ignore this is trying to flat our deny history. They weren't a political threat. Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar. Christians just refused to consider rulers as gods. they weren't murderers, or thieves, or people who want to cause mischief, and all the teachings go agains things that are similar to those.
If they were threats, so should be, for example, jews, that were greater in number and power.
>This is just your projection.
Just a very simple observation of reality.
>>73986319
Anyone who thinks that the New Testament teaches unconditional forgiveness is a heretic deserving hellfire. There can be no redemption without penitence.
Even I understand this basic Christian teaching and I'm an atheist.
>>74000235
>Christians just refused to consider rulers as gods
You proved my point in trying to argue away it. Christians refused their "pagan" rulers, this equals a threat because it's an idea the "pagan" rules didn't want to spread, but it did. Constantine dealt with it by sanctioning Christianity.
>>74000619
That is not a threat. Again, Christianity isn't related to the ruling of nations or politics. If that was a threat, jews would have been too even if they followed the formalities.
Do you seriously think I'm going to follow every stupidity you make up as you go?
Gospel of Luke (KJV) 17:20-21
20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Gospel of Mary 4:34
Beware that no one lead you astray saying Lo here or lo there! For the Son of Man is within you.
Gospel of Thomas Saying #3
3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the Father's kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the Father's kingdom is within you and it is outside you.
>>73993348
Its more than that. Eastern Orthodoxy has no purgatory. They view Mary differently. Catholic confession involves the preist himself forgiving your sins whereas in EO the priest is acting as sort of an attorney figure asking god for forgiveness. Catholics only get 1 marriage, Orthos gets 3 but only 1 wedding. Theres other bits scattered about.
>>74000957
>Christianity isn't related to the ruling of nations or politics.
Unless they do everything that's asked of them by a non-Christian leader, they are. By refusing to follow non-Christian leaders, they present themselves as a threat to those leaders.
>If that was a threat, jews would have been too even if they followed the formalities.
Forgot Jerusalem in the year 70 AD?
>Do you seriously think I'm going to follow every stupidity you make up as you go?
You haven't made a single good point so far.
You even proved my points, but you're acting like a proper Christian in opposition to an non-Christian and got your guard up, presenting yourself as a threat.
>>73986319
Forgiveness was not available during the time of the old testament, as it was before the sacrifice of Christ which opened up the possibility of redemption to man. At best you could get temporary appeasement. God still applies His laws and very much still punishes, but as forgiveness is available now there is a bit more latitude.
>>74001429
>Catholic confession involves the preist himself forgiving your sins
No, the priest is an intermediary in Catholicism as well, but he does not ask God, you ask god through him and he has the power through his station to grant you absolution, as the apostles were given that power by Christ directly.
>>73989538
Gnostism is actually a system of thought that fits well into our thinking.
Gnostics do not beleive all men are created equal. There are two types of men.
Those that are just purely material, made from the Demiurge. These men have a lower potential for intelligence, are more prone to being controlled by their emotional or bodily urges, and literally are incapable of free will. Consumerist shills, useful idiots, and emotionally driven liberals are examples. They are born blue-pills and cannot be converted. The Gnostic religion does not care about these people they have no after-life even. They are Undermench
Than there are the Ubermench of the religion, those with a divine spark, a piece of Sophia, their soul is literally a fragment of our Goddess. These men have high potential for knowledge, love learning, and are in command of their body and emotions, they have free will. These people will experience the after-life but they must develop as a person to do so. You need to learn the ugly truths, become wise in the importaint manners. They can be "red-pilled". But you need to work hard to do it. In addition some have a larger divine spark and have higher potential as humans. These are the one's the religion are concerned with.
*Gnostics also were the original anti-Semetics. For them the Old Testament is the book of the Demiurge and if the Jews are it's followers the Jews are the Demiurges ultimate hencemen!
*Gnostic believed the true things worth having in life were all intellectual. Material things are a distraction, this is why the Demiurge's Jewish agents want you to "tune in and tune out"
Gnosticism is false.
The laws were introduced to teach us about trespassing. The promise of salvation was delivered through His Son.
Lord Jesus was with God before Adam was created. If there were 2 different Gods, this would not be the case. They are both God.
The Old Testament makes more sense once you read the gospel, and believe what Lord Jesus says about Father God.
>>73993980
All things are possible through God. But are all things possible?
Between the numbers 2 and 3 lie an infinite amount of numbers, but 4 is not one of them.
>>74000957
It is a threat in that it threatened their way of the(the pagans way of life). It was just as much of a threat to the statis quo as Islam is to the west today.
>>74002105
What is the after-life according to Gnostics?
Wouldn't wise men accept death rather than fantasise about a continued reasonless consciousness? I mean, based on how nature works now, what is the point to an after-life?
>>73993549
Neither do the protestants. And why should they even do it in the first place? http://www.protestanterrors.com/#8 Come back home, brother.
>>73997367
>>73997367
The scientific community proudly and loudly proclaims that the entire universe's matter was condensed into a tiny ball of energy before exploding into what would become the universe.
Humans, and all life that's ever lived upon the surface of life is interlinked and can be traced back to a bowl of chemical soup 4 billion years ago.
Pretending this is any different from what the bible or a magician would tell you. Shiggy diggy
>>74002105
I have read around the web about gnosticism, could you point me to certain books?
>>74001454
You can be sure the jews wont do everything that's asked of them. As they did when they forced Jesus to be killed. They will obey the law as long as it doesn't go against Christianity. If that is a threat, I guess Romans also killed anyone with minimal morals and principles, since they also are a threat.
>Forgot Jerusalem in the year 70 AD?
Looks like you are forgetting the positions jews had for a long time.
>You haven't made a single good point so far.
Actually, you haven't, you just parrot your little political theories about how Christians were, magically, a political threat with lots of power. Nothing proves your points, I have given plenty of examples of how your theories of growth based on political power are complete garbage that not even a child would take seriously, a complete failure that has to constantly try to find more and more absurd ways to show how a group with no power, who suffered persecution, was suddenly an incredibly powerful group, more powerful than all others. I really doubt you read the things you write.
>>74002105
That is complete nonsense. Humanity is purely defined by its soul. Someone having no soul doesn't result in your weak idiocy, being emotionally driven or low intelligence. It would result in complete inner death, being a biological machine with no emotion, expression or consciousness, nothing beyond pure instincts. A religion that is only concerned with something is no religion, since religion deals with the entire Truth, not whatever is convenient for you. Knowledge is nothing special. Knowledge is just some electrical impulses that create memoty. Learning is again, nothing special. Animals learn all the time. Everyone is in command of the body and emotions with more or less ease. That definition of free will is a joke, and whoever made it up should try to learn something before trying to talk about these things.
>>74002908
>The scientific community proudly and loudly proclaims that the entire universe's matter was condensed into a tiny ball of energy before exploding into what would become the universe.
Not quite. Not everyone doing science is familiar with the Big Bang theory in detail either, clearly you're not. The Big Bang was a silent expansion of the time and space that is our universe.
How or why it started, nobody knows.
It's called the singularity though, and the people at CERN are working on what that singularity might have been like to study it.
>Humans, and all life that's ever lived upon the surface of life is interlinked and can be traced back to a bowl of chemical soup 4 billion years ago.
>Pretending this is any different from what the bible or a magician would tell you. Shiggy diggy
Unlike the Bible or magicians(?), you need not study supposedly divine texts for answers.
You need to study actual scientific observations, hypothesis what is going on, test hypothesis' to conclude which or what one correlates and then debate with the rest of the community who will recreate your science to validate your research. This is how it works, you can't get away with bullshit in hard science.
>>74003743
>How or why it started, nobody knows.
This is a good summary of what science will always be. A little practical tool but no real knowledge, ever. every "answer" is based on a million more questions that are a million times more complex. I wonder how many millions of unanswered questions we need until people realize science gives no Truth.
>This is how it works, you can't get away with bullshit in hard science.
Oh boy. Someday you should learn what hypothesis testing is based on.
>>73986319
Sounds like fucking heresy
t. protestant
>>74003622
>They will obey the law as long as it doesn't go against Christianity. If that is a threat, I guess Romans also killed anyone with minimal morals and principles, since they also are a threat.
You've been a pretty poor (although educational for me, to test my endurance) debater so far but my patience is over.
I'd advise you to either finish high school and attend a university to learn a proper science. There you'll learn proper methods of debate, and gain some insight to history and/or other sciences.
Your argumentative style and skills in reason are deplorable right now. Alternatively, learn a trade skill to earn you just regular cash without evolving.
>>74004359
I advise you try to get a brain before trying to talk to someone who isn't as retarded as you.
See? I don't have to write anything pretentious when I just try to mock others.
>>74001429
Do they get 3 marriages now? I thought they just got the one mulligan.
They aren't real. Stop it.
>>74003165
Gnosticism by Stephan A. Hoeller.
Gnosticism and Hermeticism
The Gnostic Bible
C.J Jung's The Red Book
look for them here in the corresponding folder
https://mega.nz/#F!AE5yjIqB!y7Vdxdb5pbNsi2O3zyq9KQ
>>74002708
The afterlife is your soul (divine spark of the Goddess) reuniting with the other sparks and Sophia is reborn. If you ever watched The first Neon Genesis movie, their 3rd impact is actually based of Gnostic theology, it would be something like that.
The reason you need to get practice self development and gain knowledge is because that's literally the key to the after-life. Gnostic Gods are literally made out of knowledge. No Gnosis=no unity with the divine=no after-life
Let's say right now you have the divine spark. But never practice self-development. You have been born materially but not mentally, you're still operating off instincts. You still havn't come into contact with the divine wisdom inside yourself. Your spike will not return to the Plaroma when you die because you never learned who you are. You have no knowledge so you are not compatable with a God that is literally pure knowledge.
You are born twice. Once from the material womb and once from the material womb. If you are not born a second time you will not live a second time.
>>74003165
Jung's stuff is a good introduction because he teaches you to read between the lines. If you read Gnostic texts literally it's all nonsense. Everything is a riddle and it's done that way intionally to get your brain working. Start with Man and his Symbols, once you can understand the messages in The Red Book you can go anywhere from there. If you want a small peak read the Gospel of Thomas and see if you can understand what is being said.
>>74004966
>>74005660
Thank you! I always felt that gnostic views fall into my understanding of reality! Thank you again!
>>73986319
Fuck off Cathar
>>73986319
The Jew god was originally a war god in the Canaanite pantheon anyway, until the jews decided that they wanted to be monotheistic.
>>74004688
>See? I don't have to write anything pretentious when I just try to mock others.
except you just did
>>74005660
Isnt Jung jewish?
Gnosticism was quite popular in RPGs from the 90s (FF7, Xenogears, Xenosaga). Maybe because it resembles Buddhism a bit.
>>74008974
>Maybe because it resembles Buddhism a bit
Buddhist monks were known to have visited Alexandria just around the time when Hermeticism strated to gain traction there
>>74004966
is the red book in there? I searched in gnostic studies and could not find it, also Gnosticism by Stephan A. Hoeller is not there :(
>>74010233
Red Book could be in the Beginners folder. If Hoeller's book is not there, then it's not there, i'm afraid.
But, to be honest with you sempai, the entirety of Hoeller's book can be pieced together from his YouTube lectures. He is pretty entry level, but a good presenter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUpEGVV6_VI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYrM264xKYk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKgFsjavftE
>>74011043
Found the red book! Thank you!
I will check the youtube videos!
It's pretty late in my corner of the world, I will check the mega books tomorrow! Have a good night!
one last bump for the road
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40zlO4fEdXU
>>74008493
He had some Jewish blood, not a complete Jew, was raised Christian. Jung's religious approach in later life is not very standard. He understood all religions to be true because for him they were all a manifestations of the inner mind. His approach very much is that there is a higher and lower interpretation of everything. He sided heavily with the Gnostics and they thought they best understood the human condition. His psychological approach to religion is basically a secular understanding of Gnostic theology.
All Gods in Jung's psychology are arch-types, they represent some primal substance, sort of like a Platonic Form. They are the purest form of something. So for instance a warrior God represents pure masculinity and strength. A nature Goddess IS nature.
This is basically the Gnostic concept of the Aeons. Aeons are between an angel and God. They represent a single aspect, the giver of a certain type of wisdom. So we can look at other people's religions and accept their Gods, as long as it falls in our frame work. A Pagan God, an arch-angel, etc. could be interpreted as an Aeon.
Gnostic divine concepts are non-material and operate on an entirly different level. That's why they need to be described through metaphor, the human language is designed to describe material things. As Jung put it, lower level thinkers can not understand this so they end up worshiping the metaphor instead of understanding it.
