Prove me wrong.
>>73966120
the picture is pretty much spot on, except maybe for "national socialist" society
>>73966120
The absurdity of this image never fails to generate fits of girlish laughter from me.
>>73966120
Ummm... you can have you assigned duties you janitor boy. I'm be flying in my rotocopters blasting some naked dude any day
>>73966120
Top is a society with resource scarcity. Bottom is a 'post-scarcity' society with magic replicators. Like true communism, the bottom will never exist.
>>73966120
Socialist society = purely fictional
Libertarian society = based on reality
>>73966120
Both of them are entirely wrong.
Most recently, Venezuela just proved you wrong.
>>73966120
Well, the fact that every current and former socialist/communist country in the world is a 3rd world shithole
>>73966120
Socialism and Communism don't work. At all. Ever. (And no, free shit doesn't exist either.)
National Socialism is the nemesis of the New World Order, Communism and Capitalism. The only true system to support the worker, and the greatest economic recovery in the history of the world in the shortest time imaginable were National Socialism. That is why the entire Capitalist and Communist world combined to destroy National Socialism. The only real enemy of International Jewry. Is it any wonder they discredit it at every opportunity?
>>73966426
>using a south american shithole as an example
It'd take a long time for the US to move to socialism, lots of people don't trust the government with safety scissors
>>73966120
Honestly, even if this cuckery was anywhere close to being accurate, I'd chose to live in Mad Max sooner than Star Trek. Why? Agency and self actualization. I might live a short, angry life of disease and violence, but at least I never had to answer to some fat fuck in a fancier suit.
>>73966426
>Venezuela
>socialist
Adolf Hitler reformed the German Banking system in this way: Hitler nationalized the German Central Bank. He removed it from private Jewish hands and returned it to German Governmental control. That is why Germany had a healthy growing economy when the US & UK were trapped in the Great Depression. The real reason for the Second World War was because Hitler saved the German people from Jewish Debt Slavery by nationalizing the Jewish owned & controlled German Central Bank. Within 3 years Germany went from having the weakest economy in Europe to the Strongest & was debt free, had no inflation, no trade deficit, was at full employment, and no national debt. International Jewry feared this example of what a free people could do once the shackles of Jewish Debt Slavery were removed. They destroyed him for standing up to them. That is why the Jews hated him. National socialism puts the economy, the state, everything under the nation and the goal is to best serve the nation.
>>73966562
>implying this will work when 40% of your population is niggers and mexicans
We had our "libertarian time" in 90's
And let me tell you - it's fucked up. Socialism is much better than this anarcho-capitalism.
"Free market" in it's absolute form is full of shit.
>>73966120
>literally competing an unlimited resource economy to an VERY limited resource economy
How can one cuck be this dumb?
>>73966621
>was debt free
Stop lying. Nazi-Germany was on the verge of economic collapse when they started WW2.
>"Between 1933 and 1939 the total revenue amounted to 62 billion marks, whereas expenditure (at times comprising up to 60% rearmament costs) exceeded 101 billion, thus causing a huge deficit and national debt (reaching 38 billion marks in 1939 and coinciding with Kristallnacht (November 1938) and with intensified persecutions of Jews and the outbreak of World War II.)[5][6]"
>>73966865
Who did they owe money to though?
>>73966799
>We had our "libertarian time" in 90's
:^)
You had a corrupt democracy, there was nothing libertarian about it.
>>73966865
Like almost every country in the European Union and the US is on the verge of economic collapse by the numbers.
>>73966944
>Who did they owe money to though?
Read what deficit spending means.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deficit_spending
It essentially means that you borrow money you can't repay from the central bank at interest, and use it in the economy.
>>73966120
top:
>korean "society"
bottom:
>japanese society
>>73966591
How the fuck is Venezuela not socialist?... The government took over basically every major industry in the name of democratic socialism, and the government jokingly calls itself a "republic" - just like your god damn North Korean "republic".
>South Korean wanting socialism
Its not hard for you... jump the fence and see how glorious it is up there you fucking idiot.
>>73967100
So they owed money to themselves? lmao
they were external debt-free
Fun fact: Not every enterprise in the US is managed democratically. In fact, none is. A libertarian society is meant to give you the opportunity to do whatever you think works out best for you, your family or village.
>>73967162
>they were external debt-free
So what? Doesn't matter if you owe 15 trillion to the Chinese or your own central bank, it's still going to cause problems in the economy.
>>73967258
>Doesn't matter if you owe 15 trillion to foreign forces or to yourself
You can't be this retarded
>>73966120
>Hurr durr movies and television series written by liberal socialist screenwriters and directed by liberal socialist directors starring liberal socialist actors produced in liberal socialist Hollywood specifically for the purpose of convincing people that socialism is a good idea prove that socialism is better than libertarianism you think I am wrong but can you find a movie that proves me wrong hahahahahaha no you can't faggot looks like I win
>>73967126
The leaf knows
>>73966998
>Like almost every country in the European Union and the US is on the verge of economic collapse by the numbers.
Yeah, and it's only 7 years ago we had the most disastrous global recession since the Great Depression in the 30s.
>>73967321
>it's still going to cause problems in the economy.
Learn to read you fucking Argienigger.
>>73966120
>socialist society
>star trek
Wasn't that after a nuclear war?
>>73966120
Japan is better than Korea.
>>73966120
These images are from fiction , they are therefore without meaning.
> Proven wrong.
A quite long read, but if you really want to know...
https://mises.org/library/socialism-economic-and-sociological-analysis
>>73967484
Thanks for the recommendation anon. I'll be checking it out.
>>73966120
>see venezuela
</thread>
>>73967484
Socialism isn't necessarily planned economy, so what von Mises wrote is irrelevant.
Also, another Jew. Interesting.
>>73966120
>road warrior - badass, exciting, awesome
>star kek - gay as balls, boring as fuck, surrounded by affirmative actioned minorities
i know which one is hell, do you?
>>73967834
How do you define socialism, then?
>>73967834
>Socialism isn't necessarily planned economy, so what von Mises wrote is irrelevant.
I'm baffled. There are thinking people on the Internet!!!
>>73967834
>Socialism isn't necessarily planned economy, so what von Mises wrote is irrelevant.
Could you elaborate on this? Under what conditions would his writings be relevant?
>>73966345
fuck u and ur imperial system
>>73967981
They would be relevant when debating someone who defends central planning, such as the planning that happens on corporate headquarters.
>>73966473
Nordic countries
>>73966120
Open your pocket book, you're paying for your share of your national defense.
>>73968105
They are not socialist, the means of production are not in hands of the state.
>>73967973
Socialism is simply government intervening to protect the interests of society as whole. That is a broad definition.
However you also have market socialism within ''standard'' socialist thought.
>>73967981
Centrally planned economy, like one of USSR.
>>73966345
So metric system is peaceful and imperial system is violent and chaotic?
Cool
>>73968305
Hurrdurrdurrr
There is govt monopolies and there are private businesses, all under a socialist roof. Fuck off toothpaste.
>>Inb4
Ignorant people confuse social democracy with socialist democracy.
Socialism is a failure because denoes the the human nature denies the basic rule of every life in the planet... "Competition". Also implies that the government should be free from corruption.
>>73968105
Welfare state does not mean socialist state. We still have a market economy.
>look at the way the productive system works
>notice that all the work, including creative and administrative work, is done by salaried or autonomous workers
>notice that the function of the capitalist is exactly like that of a feudal lord: owning a piece of the system and profiting from it, nothing else
>become a socialist
Is there anything simpler?
>>73968386
So what, we have some gov monopolies as well does not make us socialist as long as we have a capitalist economy. As long as the means of production are not in hands of the state you are not living under socialism, no amount of social and welfare programs can change that.
>>73968708
What is your definition of a socialist system then and how does it differ from communism?
>>73968601
Yes i just recently swore an oath of fealty to Phillips, in return they protect me and my holdings with powerful electronic devices.
>>73968780
As i said socialism is a system where the means of production are in hands of the state, communism is the endgoal of socialism, namely a classless society.
>>73968780
Honestly the biggest difference between the two is people's willingness to submit to authority.
>>73968948
Oh wew lad whatever opinion totally fucking discarded. I think free markets endgame is no legistlation at all which will produce genetically manipulated self illuminating humans who work 18 hour shifts at kalium mines.
>>73969106
Holy shit you must be on the verge of retardation. I feel sorry for you and your caretakers.
>>73968371
War drives innovation. Why do you think equator niggers never do anything? No need to secure precious resources from outside threats.
>>73969190
Naww Im always up for a reasonable debate expect with people whom are unable to see a middle ground. You are one of those fanaticts. No example of working socialism will do since it won't fit your specific category, any failed 3rd world shitole is a great example because they do fit your image of socialism, no example of free market fucking up is legit because "there's no true free market tried ever" eh?
>>73967834
Are you a rare?
>>73969530
There is no example of working socialism. You need to get the definitions straight. Your assumption that the rest of my argument is capitalism dindu nuffin is simply not true. You want to bend what socialism means so highly succesfull capitalist welfare stetes can fit in and that is frankly not true.
>>73968340
That's not what socialism is you fuckwit
That's a broad definition of government not of socialism
What is with you leftists and your rampant manipulation of language? Fucking stop
>>73966120
You treated two fictional universes like they're the real world.
>peasants produce food
>factory workers produce industrial products
>engineers, computer scientists, etc. invent stuff
>accountants, managers and salesman keep the system running
What's the function of the capitalist, again? I always forget...
>>73966120
more like this, commie scum
Who invents the warp drive when job opportunities are distributed by the racial/sexual progressive stack? Isn't is obvious the warp drive would be invented sooner than later if a purely meritocracy, aka free market, system is implemented?
Sorry, or did you mean Stalinism instead of our current branch of corporate socialism?
>>73970308
>purely meritocracy, aka free market
hilarious
>>73966120
If the Star Trek society was socialist as you claim - why would be there still white people? Check m8, m8
>>73970382
And another: if Mad Max society was libertarian - why would there be any niggers?
>>73966120
Libertarian = Anarchy
Socialism = Galactic Police State Fascism
>>73969890
>NOOOOO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAAAND!!!11!! SOCIALISM ONLY MEANS GULAGS AND COMRADES HAPPY STEEL MILLS AND KGB AND EVERYTHING ELSE I SAY IT MEANS!!11!!!!
Thats you, once again. Social democracy has worked time and time again in homogenous societies, all around europe before this current system of nepotism, cleptocracy and neo-liberalism.
I have no idea why I keep replying to you since you just spout muh no true scotsman ad hominem. You will never be able to admit that there have been working examples of socialism, therefore any attempt to discuss with you is wasted.
You know, personally, I try to provide atleast 3 counter-arguments against my own arguments just to make sure I am being atleast a little unbiased and objective. Try naming a few GOOD things in socialism, jus to give yourself a little perspective.
>>73970363
Laugh if you like but we never actually reached that brutal equality where everyone is judged by their perfect objective measures, maybe gen x got a taste, but they started to fag up in the 90s.
By the time white men actually honestly stopped being preferred because in group preferences, instead westerners began out group preferences to the point a black Muslim transsexual lesbian woman with a tiny, near fail grade GPA would be preferred just out of pathological virtue signalling by HR departments.
Libertarianism the way I want it (as in not laissez faire) has quite literally never been tried because the only benefactors, as Molyneux said, are us arrogant, highly intelligent over achievers and we're a sheer minority.
This is literally the system for smart people by smart people which dumb people are mortally scared of.
>>73970836
>Molyneux
>us arrogant, highly intelligent over achievers
TOP KEK
>>73970023
Getting them paid and allowing them to feed their families through market economies and their competitive wage systems, job security, investment, etc. Allowing them to work more for their families self sustenance and well being rather than the state/commune. Being able to feed and clothe their family. Things that were pretty rare in every communist society to date.
>>73966120
You really cant. Just look at USA private spaceflight. Its a joke. If you want something really done you need state for it
>>73966120
>federation from star trek
>socialist
>mfw
You are a dumbfuck and have no idea what those terms even mean.
>>73970728
Social democracy =\= socialism
You can conjure up defitions of socialism that don't actually exist. I just use the textbook definition of socialism.
>>73970998
>Getting them paid
>Allowing them to work
That's the way feudalism worked too. Feudal lords were very generous, they bestowed upon the peasants their right to exist, as long as they gave 50-75% of what they produced to him. Tell me, have your masters being very generous to you?
>>73966120
star trek is boring and shit
>>73970728
We Americans don't have the privilege of cultural/ethnic homogeny so naturally a more libertarian state would be better. It can hopefully drive out lower-IQ people and dissuade more from coming in. It's difficult for us because we've been fed the narrative of "this nation was founded on immigrants". This is simply untrue.
>>73970728
Also you accuse me of ad hominems when you just typed that retarded greentext. Topkek m8
>>73971078
This.
Star Trek is communist, not socialist.
>>73967376
the upcoming one is going to be even worse
>>73966120
>Star Trek
>socialist
Star Trek is literally a fucking Navy in space.
>>73971241
Peasant wages for peasant work. Computer Engineering major here. Yes my "masters" will compensate me quite well to keep me around. If not, I'll find another company with better wages. That alone separates us from feudalism. Look into austrian economics and you'll see that individual choice makes or breaks people in free market economies.
>>73971374
KEK!
Where? In Bizarro-World?
>>73971615
This.
>>73971615
Good luck to you. Some people get it when they're very young. Some people spend their whole life believing in the system, become frustrated, have a mental breakdown in their 50s, then become Trump supporters.
>>73971638
The federation isn't classless, stateless and moneyless?
>>73971171
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy
But social democracy does exist and works, and as I previously mentioned, you just can't admit this.
There is textbook and there is real life. Philips screwdriver is not a flathead screwdriver but they are both tools, and screwdrivers, which a hammer for example is not, even though a hammer is capable too of driving in a screw. You seem a bit autismo.
>>73971313
Different tools for different nations, ypu have a population pool of 300 million to draw from, our socialist nordic countries are below 10 million. Here it would be less profitable to leave people on their own, in the US the huge population pool alone creates a whole other dynamic.
>>73971320
Is there only one flavour of icecream that can be labeled as icecream or is it gonna be your true and only definition of icecream again?
>>73971890
Thank you.
I'll certainly get whatever is coming to me, considering how I'm getting in pretty late in the game.
>>73971990
The federation is not classless. There are workers, there is military, there are farmers etc.
There are distinct hierarchies.
Starfleet and the federation council are the highest "class" in this hierarchy.
The federation is a huge alliance of multiple planets/system = states. They all have their own defense forces and their full sovereignity. Starfleet is simply a combined exploration and defense force with the aim of expanding and guarding the federation.
The federation is not inherently moneyless. They trade with other powers via kompensation and "money"-alternatives.
There is no money because due to transporter technology and replicators and automated systems so they need no money inside the federation.
>>73971890
>they "get it"
Are you seriously trying to argue that mass immigration is a good thing? That guy has job security now, how will he be when another few million indians on H1B visas flood in?
Fucking libertarians.
>>73972440
The free market will fix it?
:^)
>>73972440
I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Look at the conversation carefully and stop being retarded.
>>73966345
haaaaaaaaaa, it's funny because imperials and starwars. i understood that reference.
>>73967136
Socialism is the ownership of the company by workers. Venezuela has a nationalised economy. If Venezuela were socialist all its workers would have dividend paying shares of the company.
>>73967484
Is this popular enough to where they'd have it at a bookstore?
>>73966120
Feudal Empire Theocracy Dictatorship Society
>>73972884
Get out of your ideological bubbles and hear the chink, Anglo-Americans. You might learn something.
>>73972884
>Socialism is the ownership of the company by workers.
Isn't that capitalism?
>>73973034
>>73972389
If we're just talking about humans, the classes in the Federation is an economically classless society. The ranks aren't paid at all.
>what is lantinum
>>73973034
Specifically, "owning" a company is the same as owning dividend paying shares of it. You get a vote in how it's run and get a share of the profits. Of course, modern worker salaries are shares of profits but it's generally implied the difference in share of profits wouldn't be as large as in modern companies.
>>73966120
So basically whoever made the OP picture acknowledges that Socialism can only work in a fantasy post-scarcity setting where there is an unlimited supply of energy and infinite manufactured goods that just materialize out of thin air. (Replicators)
Real life is a bit different.
>>73973227
The don't get payed, because of certain technologies money has become obsolete. Also nearly all have a job, since you can do whatever you want with your life and known part of the galaxy is a nearly unending resource for that.
No money does not automatically mean comunism or socialism. It is more like a moderately capitalist society where tchnology advanced so far, that money simply became obsolete.
They "classes" have privileges mostly of prestigous kind.
At the end of the day, noone knows specifically which economic/social/etc system the federation has. When Gene Roddenberry was asked about this he replied something like that he won't make any speculations or spwe out details about that, but it is a system which cannot be compared to anything currently in existence and maybe there are a few similarities with current systems but they are more like picking best parts or coinsidence.
>>73972884
>My special brand of socialism has never been tried
Fuck off commie.
Yugoslavia had worker cooperatives.
It was still a shithole.
>>73966120
There's a socialist society right above you which is constantly threatening to bomb you...yeah, sounds great
>>73973762
This. Star Trek deals with post-scarcity economics. It's neither communist, capitalist, or socialist. It only appears that way because the only perspective we're ever given into their society is through the eyes of a military organization, which for obvious reasons must remain uniform and efficient.
>>73973607
Well op just got destroyed, good Kek man
>>73966120
Both seem fine
