Pre 2014
>I believe in God
>"You are an ignorant bigoted unenlightened sheep *procedes rant that had nothing to do with the original conversation*
2014+
>I believe in God
>"You are an ignorant bigoted unenlightened sheep"
>Fuck off fat fedora tipping neckbeard. Nobody wants to argue about religion in a conversation that has nothing to do with atheism.
>Atheist slams his is fatass arms on the keyboard in rage and throws his copy of "The God Delusion" at his computer
kek's will was truly manifest with this one
Didn't it kill MGTOW too?
Atheists are autistic
Atheism is still strong.
You just get more backlash if you're a sperg.
Atheists are shitty subhumans who I wouldn't trust running civilization.
Atheists and their ideology fall apart rather quickly and are very weak.
>>73937783
There is only one god Kek.
>>73937783
This is the power of memes. It's true, I remember before fedora meme, leftists like Laurie Penny wore fedoras, post-meme, they won't touch them.
Meme magic only gets stronger. Memes have probably played a very strong part in getting Trump to where he is now.
Maybe we can actually win this.
Atheism has always been shit-tier, they are no better than Christian fundamentalists or Islamists.
I think atheism is still very strong on the internet but fedora gave a very strong counterpunch. Before if you had faith on the internet pretty much the entire website made fun of you. Now fedoraposting gives you an option against them.
>>73938251
I'm an atheist, but I never mention it unless someone goes full retard like that.
Atheists aren't all nihilistic edgelords. I think for the most part christian values are the best. I wish we wouldn't be abandoning them so fast.
inb4 fedora memes. meme at me broooo!!
Fedora maymays are older than 2014 you fag.
>>73937783
I don't believe in it. I'm also not gonna waste my time arguing with someone over their beliefs unless they are a filthy muslim dog.
Progressive Atheism has no future. No birth rates to speak of, Atheists just don't breed.
It will be challenged, bested and replaced by a strong resurgence of Trad values within the next decade as the young eschew pointless existence for fulfillment within Organized religion.
In every atheist region the people are aging with no replacement population in sight.
Atheism is literally death.
>>73937783
Well it shits on those who really feel the need to show that they REALLY ARE SO ENLIGHTENED by atheism, so im alright with that. No meme will change the way i feel or percieve things, only insecure faggots will give a shit.
>>73938640
>bested and replaced by a strong resurgence of Trad values
Yeah, from Muslim immigrants. :/
We screwed outselves.
>seriously being an atheist
>not following the religion of your fathers for the sake of tradition and then studying philosophy and theology to understand yourself and your own mortality
I'm a catholic, I respect any other follower of any other denomination or faith more then an atheist.
Atheism is just brainwashed faggots discarded the traditions of their people, at the behest of their jewish and corporate masters.
I seriously hope anyone here doesn't discard their parents or grandparents faith and values simply because that's the popular thing to do.
Fuck the pope, the elite, the intellectuals, all they aim to do is strengthen their own power by stripping the west of its spiritual and philosophical foundations.
because it effectively summarizes what the stupid ideology of Modern Atheism is about
What am I if I side with Christians against anti theists, support their core beliefs and lifestyle, and respect them for developing the infrastructure for modern civilization as we know it, but don't actually believe a word of the bible or in the concept of a divine creator or afterlife?
>>73937783
The fedora memes are the symptom of a greater reaction. Atheism isn't cool anymore because it was only popularized by Jews to beat back Christianity. Anti-theism just isn't cool when too many people go along with it. That's why Satanism was hip in the 70s but corny nowadays.
>'kill an entire ideology'
>it gets made fun of on reddit and 4chan
>>73938882
They'll be having a hard time tolerating you. The system requires faith. Most people are not enlightened enough to chose to live according to these principles. In theistic societies, atheism is reserved for the elite.
>>73938630
>Pope Francis
>Christian
Pick one
>>73938893
>That's why Satanism was hip in the 70s but corny nowadays.
Correction: It was actually cool up until the 90s, before 9/11 happened. Once 9/11 happened, that sort of edginess wasn't cool anymore.
Fast-forward to now and it's the media itself that is lame, like hyper-Kaczynskism. "Everyone" knows it's shallow and fake.
>>73938460
>Atheists aren't all nihilistic edgelords. I think for the most part christian values are the best. I wish we wouldn't be abandoning them so fast.
be the change you wish to see in the world
or is it too hard ;(((((((((
>>73938882
It's called being a cultural Christian. Even Richard Dawkins admits that he is a cultural Christian.
>>73939163
Still butthurt for that time he said that Trump wasn't acting like a Christian?
>>73938976
The fedora meme is only used in cesspools. The people I see referencing it in non-cesspool sites are all trashy people that have a bitter attitude and have a scornful attitude towards everybody, and they are always shunned by other people.
Don't get me wrong, I'm an atheist and I've been banned from numerous atheist websites. I haven't talked about this in a LONG time. Atheists have always hated my right leaning stance on things. I understand why people think atheists are arrogant, but everyone is arrogant.
>>73939530
Didn't even know he said that. Knew he was a cuck when he said atheists and gays aren't sinners.
>>73939630
>Atheists have always hated my right leaning stance on things.
Y'all heathens got Jewed with the whole Atheism 2.0 or whatever the fuck it was that essentially turned it into more feminist PC shit.
>>73938893
>Atheism isn't cool anymore because it was only popularized by Jews to beat back Christianity
Honestly I think it was only interesting because there were very vocal atheists who appeared like Hitchens and Dawkins, and Hitchens is dead and Dawkins probably has better things to do now.
Also with the rise of terrorism the edgy left are too busy ironically defending Islam.
>>73939732
Actually, he said that the churches door are open for them and only God can judge them, but later said "gay marriage" is incompatible with the doctrine and shouldn't happen, but hey, what I could expect from an American with copy-pasted meme opinions?
>>73937783
Because its effective, its literally the U mad? of discussing religion. By posting that picture or calling them a fedora there is no possible way they can reply without sounding mad, same with when people say U mad you can't respond without sounding mad
>>73939732
>he said atheists and gays aren't sinners
He may be saving your dying religion by saying things like that.
Lay off the gays. Quit focusing on the sex acts themselves so much. Make it more abstract. Tolerate the decent gays. Focus more on all sorts of "degeneracy" that everyone can agree on, even the atheists. There's a culture war going on. If you stick to fundamentalist stuff, you lose. And that's what the other side wants you to do.
>>73937783
I was thinking about posting this thread t b h f a m. Thank you for taking the initiative, OP -- even if it is just pasta.
Athesits are Jack asses that think they know the secrets to the Universe.
>>73939988
>the churches door are open for them and only God can judge them
Based repentance and purgatory always giving Catholics a reason to ignore whatever and still technically be Catholic.
>>73939163
Same shit
they do it to themselves
even reddit got tired of their shit and took them off of being a default sub
>>73938373
And his name is Donald J. Trump.
>>73940077
I'm not advocating shunning homosexuals, in the same way I don't advocate shunning any other kind of sinners (within reason.)
As social justice has shown us, accepting homosexuality is a slippery slope.
Christ stands forever. You are the only one clinging to dying ways.
>>73937783
Why are most atheists white, jewish, and asian?
>>73937783
>tfw Jesus has been memeing atheism into non existence from heaven
Thanks based Jesus
>>73938882
A parasite. Religion is not philosophy. Although philosophy is more respected, religion is more powerful in the fact that it's applied philosophy, or popular philosophy, or "poetic philosophy".
Religion builds up civilization, but not only. Its thanks to the faithful that believe in the creed and give strength to religious values. The reason why the Western is falling apart today is not because faith changed, but because there are less believers and in turn less power given to religious values.
Its nice that you acknowledge all the gifts Christianity has given to Western civilization, but you're not helping Christianity any more than the globalists. You're riding on the work of the faithful.
>>73940491
Highest IQ races
>>73939911
Liberalism has internalized Christian values since it sprung up from them, and wants its adherents to be the all-inclusive, omni-tolerant martyrs on the cross Jesus was with the added Catholic guilt complex from centuries of papal inculcation, without realizing they're trading in the same ideas as their despised forefathers and only changing the names of the deed. It's all the same ritual, and they don't even realize it.
>>73940509
>>73940547
>>73940409
>I'm not advocating shunning homosexuals
Oh ok. Some christians treat them pretty cruelly desu. Many gays are absolutely decent people.
It's difficult to tolerate something while not allowing it to become normalized. That's the problem with gay marriage and gay adoptions... I supported it before, but now I don't know...
>Christ stands forever. You are the only one clinging to dying ways.
I should slap you. The devine will not intervene to save your religion. Religions come and go. You have to fight, and you have to smart about it.
>>73940491
>30% of American Buddhists are Jewish
Honestly anon, the Jews are so fucking weird, they confuse me.
>>73937783
Anons, is there any way to prove morality is objective without God?
I believe morality is objective, but I can't prove it using only natural law, this is a question I've been trying to answer.
>>73940700
Interesting
Why are blacks, hispanics, indians, and middle easterners so religious?
>>73940923
I think we already know
>>73939897
It's been like that for a while, christburger. New Atheism started in the late 2000s, but really took off when feminism infused itself into it, and it became synonymous with SJWs, leftism, political correctness, and autism.
It honestly doesn't matter much though, I'm older and I've had my heyday of arguing about it with other people. I've seen it all, said it all and done it all in a sense. I keep a neutral tone to my language and I only really encounter hostile Christians on here.
>>73940351
>>73939897
Athiesm+ is universally hated even by a large portion of left leaning atheists
>>73938882
well you should study more since christianity is certainly true.
http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics-more/resurrection-evidence.htm
>>73940207
You have it backwards friendo, only theists are the ones making any claims about knowing shit like that (god did it)
People saying their self to be Atheist arent really 100%
Atheism is a bad thing and promotes the pointlessness in life. Most ''athiest'' are people who dont believe in bible or religion but still belives in higer beings/ another level of consciousness and misusing the word athiesm.
Some just turned into satanism because god couldnt give them life they wanted.
99% of ''real athiests'' who really belives that there are no higher power or consciousness commits sucide
>>73941003
Interesting
It's almost as if the smarter races know better
>>73941310
Holy shit
Estonia is unpopulated
>>73938745
and yet Julius Fedora is even more fedora-tier
>>73941176
Isn't the whole point of believing that you have faith despite the lack of affirming evidence?
>>73940917
>Anons, is there any way to prove morality is objective without God?
Short answer: Not yet.
Long Answer: Being declared objective by a 2000 year old fairy tale character doesn't make your morality more objective.
>>73937783
This meme killed off atheism because we realised that religion wasn't the problem afterall.
Sure creationism was obviously retarded. And it was dumb that it was getting into some schools and shit.
But then we realised that SJW bullshit has been taught in universities for decades. Creationism and religion in general's attempt to influence education was mostly a failure, a bit of a laugh.
But what has happened to our universities is serious and endemic. And this is mostly done by irreligious people. So it was no longer seen as particularly intellectual to be atheist when the biggest bullshit going actually attaches itself to atheism much of the time.
Personally I'm still an atheist, but if anyone asks I just say Christian because I can't be arsed to explain that I'm not a fedora tipper.
>>73937783
Christianity has been in trouble since the fucking 1500s. If you follow the history of philosophy this should be appearent. Spinoza ripped apart the old metaphysics, Renaissance humanism made it so ethics were no longer focused on God, skeptics such as Hume and Bacon changed epistmology so you could no longer be certain of God. Voltaire destroyed it's historical narrative. etc.
What's funny is half the people that fucked with Christianity thought they were actually helping it. Bacon insisted that we would eventually find scientific proof to prove everything in the bible and we shouldn't just believe it because it's written.
By the time the 1800s came the religion was really on it's last leg. Hegel tried to come to the rescue and reboot the religion using his philosophy to fill in all the weak parts, but it actually just made the religion die faster. Darwin showed up caused a shit storm. Than Nietzsche at last came onto the scene and declared we had killed God and completely changed how people saw it. Since than just about every intellectual from Marx to Freud took hacks at it and religion pretty much got completely from serious study like a tumor.
At this point universal education was not a thing so the average person was not aware of how completly BTFO their religion was. Eventually when people started reading they discovered this crap. The past 100 years have just been the peasents catching up to a long old truth. Pop philosophers like Sam Harris borrowed ideas that had already been put forth centuaries ago and people think it's some big news.
If you think the fedora's "caused" any of this you havn't been paying attention.
>>73937783
the liberals caved when the global warming "data" rolled in. they knew they would have to make excuses for muslims in africa and the middle east
>>73937783
To be fair, people were goofing were fedoras long before then.
>>73937783
>How did one meme kill an entire ideology
If was killed there would be no more threads about it.
atheists are just easier to set off than other religions
>>73941708
Are you serious? I thought this whole athe1sm!!11 was only a thing in the US. No-one gives a shit in the UK. You get more funny looks if you say you're a Christian over here.
>>73941708
Heh. Good point! The creationism crap isn't nearly as bad as the SJW crap. I've never seen it that way.
Alright pol help me here, I need good theism theory to justify believing in God again. I can't tolerate not having a strong faith to fight sand niggers and cucks
The atheist movement 2013-2014 was akin to SJWs. Amazing how one meme killed the movement entirely. How did this happen?
I think this could be done to feminists and libtards
>>73940351
No.
>>73940509
if you set a church on fire will it burn or will god just blow it out
now i have to cry because i saw burning churches
>>73942314
It went to shit after SJW employed their usual co-opting tactics and started the nonsensical identity politics while demeaning the four horses for being male and white. The "I'm enlightened by my own intelligence" and the tip fedora was just the last nail in the coffin.
But yeah, meme magic is indeed quite strong.
>>73941622
>fairy tale
>I have successfully received your tip, your award money will be sent to you via paypal
>tfw agnostic and still meme-free to this day
really though, god is probably not real
>>73943216
Agnosticism is a meme in and of itself.
>>73943174
I would be a paid shill if I knew how to get in touch with these people.
>>73940917
Anons, is there any way to prove morality is objective without God?
Look around you and see what countries become with cerrtain moral values, islam are a bunch of nut bags but they think its normal to stone someone who have burned a quran. Then look at china they now lack around 30 million girls because they killed them because there goverment had a one child policy and boys are worth more
>>73937783
Atheism hasn't gone anywhere. It's useless to mention it on /pol/ though, some faggot will just spam bible quotes until the thread dies.
Memes and spam didn't kill an ideology, they killed discussion of it on a board on 4chan.
Religious talk is irritating either way here, so I just wish those fucking bible-quote fiends would fuck off as well.
>>73940917
>Anons, is there any way to prove morality is objective without God?
Philosophy fag here.
There is no way to have objective morality WITH God.
Suppose God says that killing is wrong. How does this logically make it objective? All we have is a being giving a statement. Saying there is a reward/punishment for obeying does not make it objective it just pushes you in one direction. Saying "he's really smart so he has the right answer" does not make sense either. It fails to establish a casual relationship between obeying and being good.
There is no way to get an is from an ought so all morality is going to be subjective. Even basic ideas such as life being better than death, truth better lies, pleasure better than pain, are subjective. We are just socially conditioned to see these as normal. But philosophy has to ask questions rather than just go with the normative.
All you can do is create some sort of system that measures morality against a standard. But there is no objective reason to go with that standard. The ultimate authority in any morality is yourself because you choose what standards to follow.
>>73943850
Morality is not objective, but we should still defend our culture as the superior one because anything less is being a cuck.
>>73937783
Because God has blessed meme magic
>>73937783
/Pol/ isn't a christian board at least not actual christian since the majority of us don't believe the bible but shut up about it because butthurt beta christians can't get their european waifu because christianity calls women to be virgins till marriage. And without that they can't get a chick.
>>73938640
Spot the r-selected person.
>>73944483
This is basically how morality works. Whichever society wins gets to call the shots. An individual person may also choose to move away from what society is trying to impose on him and call the shots for himself, however someone like Nietzsche would say such people are uncommon and most people are the "herd" who will just go along with whatever the current ruling society says.
This essentially means my deal /pol/acks if you want to destroy "degeneracy" and replace it with "healthy" morals you do not need any moral reason to do so, than your own will is the justification. And if you gain control over a small piece of society (even if that piece is just the children you raise), you can install new morals into the 'herd'.
>>73944483
Supreme wisdom, overwhelming majority of people are ignorant to this
>>73937783
We believe in Memetheism now
In the beginning there was the meme...
>>73944433
>>73946450
I believe you are false, there is no way (as far as I know) that morality can be objective WITHOUT God. God being the ultimate authority on the JUST nature of the world.
Your subjective worldview as really screwed you up if you don't understand basic principals such as pleasure being better than pain, truth being better than lies, natural laws set these things in stone. The creator of those natural laws, being God.
>>73946776
>objective
Why? Not everything needs to be a science. Philosophers have been reasoning about morality since the beginning of time. Your culture can be based on non-objective principles just fine without having to resort to fantasy.
>>73937783
If a meme can kill an ideology then it stands to reason the ideology wasn't that strong in the first place.
>>73938179
people who think they understand everything about the world and disregard the opinions of others are autistic.
this applies to everyone, regardless of faith or lack there of.
>>73947038
I'm not saying that cultures can't exist without objective morality, but they are dangerous and lead to ideas such as "the ends justify the means" where millions of people get killed for the good of society, or basic tribal peoples who rape each other because they don't know better.
>>73946776
Ok. Explain logically how pleasure is better than pain?
You might have nerve cells that make it more comfortable to feel good but that's not an objective source. There are also plenty of arguements made for pain being superior to pleasure. Nietzsche thought suffering made people stronger and toughened them, so it was better to experience hardship than not.
And what is the objective reason to prefer truth to lies? You need back up your point. Like pain there are also philosophical arguments that put lies as being better than truth. For instance in politics and warefare you may wish to deceive your enemies or the public.
And the same goes for God being objectivily good. You have not given a single reason. You have just made assertions with no real arguement.
There are consequences for action but it is up to the individual to decide what consequences he wants, what type of future he desires. One can logically prove things such that if a+c=a+b than c=b but there is no logic to morality. There only many systems which depend on unlogical axioms. Philosophy involves questioning all axioms and need just taking them as dogma. Socrate already BTFO the axiom of God being the ultimate authority in Crito (like it up if you don't know this).
>>73947247
You are going to have mass murders with literally any moral systems. The Abraham religions have been responsible for some of the biggest blood baths with their armies.
This is because warfare is a natural part of being human, it's built into the system of nature. Conflict is how shit gets done.
>>73947247
I admit that religion can lead to STRONG principles, which is difficult to accomplish otherwise.
The liberals that oppose religion are usually very laissez-faire, which doesn't help.
The end only justifies the means if this was the best (reasonable) alternative. But people often use that expression to pretend like there were no other, better alternatives, including those unknown, which is often not true. This is just bad reasoning and it could be taught too.
>>73947441
>morality is objective
This is the problem I'm facing, in all my being I realize the rights and wrongs, regardless of hypothetical situations, killing somebody without just motivation to do so is wrong, and most people feel this way as well. I just cannot use logic to prove my assertion without going to the authority of God.
>>73947655
>going to have mass murders with literally any moral system
Warfare is different than sending people to the gulag for not being good commies.
>>73948162
>sending people to the gulag for not being good commies
Heh, yeah but often that's not why they were being sent. These were often the best commies. But they were a treat to appointed officials. That makes it even worse I guess.
>>73947247
>or basic tribal peoples who rape each other because they don't know better.
Now thats the problem it is 2016 and i could not kill a animal ,if ii was born in the olden days i had to kiill animals to survive and could not even think about that killing a animal is wrong
it really makes you think who the fuck am i
>>73948649
>killing an animal is wrong
Not really, if you need to eat it or require it for resources you shouldn't have a problem with killing an animal. Today in modern society, where most people don't kill animals, unless they are farmers, it seems unnatural.
>>73948162
>killing somebody without just motivation to do so is wrong, and most people feel this way as well
I already explained this. All moral systems are subjective but they are not arbtiary. They are chosen to promote certain values, in this case the value that life is better than death. The controllers of society write the moralative norms. Since having a bunch of dead subjects weakens their power, most rulers say it is morally wrong to kill. However the idea that life is better than death is not logical, it's subjective. A suicidal person will feel differently for instance. A shift in value system can also change it. For instance if we decide that defending your country is better than living than dying (in battle) becomes morally good.
>Warfare is different than sending people to the gulag for not being good commies
Yes it is, every mass murder will have a different justification. "Morality" did not stop the Commies, in fact they used their own morality to justify everything. They were "accelerating history" and working towards a "workers paradise" which are morally good under their subjective rule.
>God
I'll try to explain this with a bit of Kirkeegaard who was a Christian that advocated for the subjectivity of morality. Remember when Abraham went to sacrifice his son? Well by any normal person's account that would be morally wrong. If Abraham told his priest or his friends they would say him doing that was evil. But Abraham was guided by faith and his devotion to a goal. When he decided to sacrifice his son he was what is called a "Knight of Faith" someone that is beyond both Good and Evil, moving forward not by a fixed morality but a deep trust of themself (and God). Morality is a fixed way for people with no faith in themself. God is also above good and evil says Kierkegaard.
>>73937783
I was lost until I found the one true God.
KEK (peace be upon him)
>>73949009
I understand where you are coming from, but subjective morality is not an idea I find comforting nor good for society, and that's why I'm trying to find an explanation that is logical, obviously these discussions help anon, thank you.
>God
I suppose the best explanation I can come up with is the metaphor of the tree of knowledge, eating from it bestowed us with the knowledge of good and evil, thus setting the standard for morality.
>>73949637
Well I'll help you. Historically there have been many, many attemps to come up with an objective model for morality. Subjectivists such as myself beleive each model is just a different subjective view. For a subjectivist like myself the value of each model is in how useful, how powerful, how much it binds society.
Of the models I think the strongest is Plato's view, he is arguably the first in Western Cannon (or second if you count Socrates) to work on the idea. As a result all other models are influenced by him. Christians, especially Orthodox Christians also draw heavily from him.
Basically morality is imitation of the Forms. All "good" "honor" "courage" and other abstract concepts are shadows of the supreme Form of "good" "honor" courage" etc. The Form is the true objective model which everything is based on. Since Forms are unchanging and immaterial they can be the standard forever. Forms are associated with the Divine. So Christians take it that God is the Form of Good.
Goodness in this system is to be like the Forms (God, or sometimes angels which are lesser forms).
If you want to kickstart your quest for objective morality read: Plato, Neo-Platonists, and Hermetism. Also look for Christian theologians that tried used these soruces.
>>73950445
Thanks, much appreciated. You're a good dude.
>>73938294
This is just plain false
>>73937783
You mean encouraged shitposting on one board of one anime website?
Please note how /pol/ immediately jettisoned the Christian meme as soon as Trump came along and started saying he didn't have a problem with gay marriage or trans rights and then suddenly Christians are the same as any other stupid cuckservative getting in the way, I almost feel sorry for the one or two unironic Christians who thought they were in good company and now will get shitposted themselves if Trump wins.
>>73937783
Reminder fedora meme is used by SJW's and desert wizard Sky daddy worshipers equally
