Would things really go to shit if people stop buying crap they didn't need?
What's exactly not needed? Be precise.
>>73845451
Tobacco products.
Designer shoes/clothes
Heated flooring.
Cosmetic surgery
>>73845451
>portugal
>illiterate, retardation, autism, dumbfuckery, isolation
>>73845353
Only in an economy based around people buying shit they don't need.
>>73845685
so, yes.
yes because when the government becomes so powerful it can dictate what you "need", it's already too late
>>73845685
As in, the current economy?
The vast majority of products on shelves in ANY country are stupid shit that no-one actually NEEDS.
>>73845451
>brand new luxury cars
>oversized houses
>anything you would buy at Starbucks
>eating out every meal
>Cable/Satellite TV
>designer clothes
>designer handbags
>most beauty supplies
>jewelry
>jewelry with diamonds
>granite countertops
>new home renovations every 2 years
Tons of other stuff. It's ridiculous to me how many people consider themselves "poor" and are in huge amounts of debt while still having 90% of the things on that list. Even most lower class American households are overflowing with wastefulness and needless luxuries.
>>73845552
>>73845546
A few points:
1. You realize that people find status important? In fact, if you are a man, women drool all over you if you show good signals of high status. Availability to (real) sexual partners is always going to be competitive, no matter how technologically advanced we get.
2. Entertainment is not needed? So, I figure you don't travel, you don't watch movies, listen to music, etc.?
3. As for drugs, they become needed by definition when you become addicted.
I don't get you. How come you say something is not needed when you see people go into great efforts to obtain it? They clearly needed. Their behavior reveals that.
>>73845353
No
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/04/09/what-if-everyone-became-frugal/
>>73846068
Want != need
"Need", unless otherwise specified, refers to what's necessary for living.
>>73846068
Wants and needs are not the same thing. I know people making more than $100k/year living in trailer homes and in debt up to their eyeballs. Why? Because they waste all their money on stupid shit. Have you ever seen something ridiculously overpriced at grocery store and wondered to yourself "Who the fuck would buy that?!?!?!" These people have a pantry full of that kind of shit. $20 boxes of organic crackers that are unopened after a year. They just renovated their kitchen to add more cabinet space because their pantry is so full of long-ago-expired overpriced food that they can't store it all anymore. They have a huge bookshelf full of hundreds of DVD's, most of them still in original wrapping and never watched. A whole room of their trailer is devoted to storing old junk that hasn't been used in 10+ years. Of course all the furniture in that room is less than 2 years old because you can't have your junk laying on an out of fashion bed.
>>73846198
That is an arbitrary distinction created by communists to justify why their system was better, in spite of making everyone poorer.
By that standard, we should all be eating and living like farm animals, as to maximize the survivability-cost trade-off. Brave New World much?
>>73845353
yes, buying shit we dont need fuels economy, feeds much more people. theres absolutely nothing wrong with consumerism.. except for that minor "environment" nuisance
>>73846709
There is nothing wrong with spending excess money on desires. But it is dishonest to pretend that luxuries are needs.
>>73845451
Living beyond your means. I see way too many morons on kikebook boasting about how their checking account has $3 and payday is the lord savior. Makes you wonder if these guys are saving ANY portion of their money or investing it.
Anyways here is a list if you're not rich and living like you are:
>Newest iPhone every couple of months
>BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Audi, etc... if you don't know how to fix them and can't afford to.
>Too much house
>Designer clothes
>JEWELRY
>Eating out constantly rather than cooking at home.
>Drugs like cigarettes, booze, weed, etc.. constantly.
>Kids (only if you're not ready financially and mentally because muh dik)
.
NOTHING HE'S GOT, HE REALLY NEEDS
>>73846198
>>73846660
I don't mind if you say that some needs should be prioritized to others in face of severe scarcity. That much is obvious, because some needs do not increase our probability of survival but our enjoyment of life.
If you analyze the diets of poor people in poor countries, which in general are nutritiously unbalanced, you will find that, when their income increases, they will spend more on food, in absolute terms. However, their diet will remain unbalanced because they will substitute terrible tasting food for better tasting one.
>>73847002
The funny thing is that a good percentage of the people who are actually wealthy (high net-worth, not just high-income) don't spend alot of money on flashy status symbols. The vast majority of people who own brand new foreign luxury cars financed it and have less than $1mil in net worth. The actual wealthy people then buy those same cars 3-4 years used.
>>73847002
Status is important. Most of your points are related to that.
>>73845782
What if it's not imposed from the top-down?
What if there's some kind of major social movement against frivolous spending?
>>73847143
I don't even know what you are trying to say. Here in the US you can fulfill all your needs, live very comfortably relative to 99% of the world, and maintain great health for less than $30k/year. I own my own house, own my car outright, drink way too much beer, eat very well, go to the doctor once a year, and I still spend ~$24-26k/year. Anyone who spends more than ~$60k/year for a single person is either living in a very high col area or is terrible with money.
>>73847209
My Aunt on my dad's side is swimming in cash but what is funny is how they live. They always eat at home, they drive nice used volvos & lexus (not new flashy german cars), and they keep entertainment on their property because it has a pool, bar, and large lawn.
Yet I know a couple of people at work driving a brand new BMW 3 series, has 4 kids, eating out every night, and I can overhear them talking about how fucked their credit is. People never cease to amuse me.
>>73847209
I would call confirmation bias on that. You can't look only at the exceptions but at the general rule.
>>73847369
>Status is important.
You are a shallow idiot. No one cares what kind of car you're driving, they're too worried about what you think of theirs. Do you really think buying a fancy car improves your status? How stupid are you?
>>73847517
The general rule is that spendthrift people go broke very quickly no matter how much money they have.
I have a very good statistical sample for you, a large pool of millionaires. Professional athletes.
The average NBA player makes $5.2 million a year. 60% of NBA players go bankrupt within two years of retirement.
The average NFL player makes $1.9 million a year. 78% of NFL players go bankrupt within two years of retirement.
>>73847517
Go read "The Millionaire Next Door". A couple guys who study millionaires for a living (mostly to aid market research for big companies) compile a bunch of data on your typical millionaire. If you look at millionaires who did not inherit their wealth or get it from sudden windfalls (so excluding lottery winners, movie stars, sports players, etc.), the vast majority do not spend lots of money on cars, clothes, or houses. In fact, most millionaires live in working class neighborhoods, drive used cars, and have never spent more than a few hundred dollars on a set of clothes. You only think rich people spend their money on status symbols because:
1. Alot of people go in debt to buy that stuff so they can fool people into thinking they are wealthier than they really are
2. Alot of people who get rich without working for it blow it on stupid shit because they think that's what rich people do.
>>73847429
Think about my example. Did better tasting food become a want? That poor person could live by with what she ate before and could even improve her diet with the additional money. If your answer is yes, then all you do, as you live in a rich country, is indulge your wants, as the food we eat tastes better than the shit they eat.
It's not a matter of being terrible or not with money. Those people value things you don't.
If everyone in the US stayed home from work simultaneously for one day, the country would probably collapse
>>73847598
I'm a very frugal person. I'm talking about what I observe not about me.
You can call people who value status whatever you want. The fact is that people do judge you based on signals of wealth. You can claim they don't but evidence is against you.
>>73845353
Considering people spending money is what makes capitalism work, yeah. How many rich people do you think there would be if people only bought the essentials?
>>73848016
Yes better tasting food is a want. I fully admit that I overspend on food. I could easily get by on cheaper food that doesn't taste as good. But if I was less well off financially, I would definitely not expect anyone to help me maintain this level of luxury. Spend your money on whatever you want, but just don't pretend that those wants are needs.
>>73847513
You can't accumulate wealth if you spend all of it before you can invest it, pretty simple.
>>73847002
I really never understood how people can live paycheck to paycheck.
Like, when someone says, "I can't buy that right now, I'll have to get it on payday" or something it just confuses me. Like, don't have they have money anyway? Why does payday matter?
Yeah you might need to refigure your budget if you make any odd purchases, but you should never be a paycheck away from anything.
I don't understand that lifestyle.
I can count the number of MONTHS of my life where my "wealth" ended lower than it started on 2 hands.
And I'm 30. And that includes holidays where I spend way too much on people.
>>73845353
Probably.
Our governments make a fortune through sales tax/VAT and tarrifs.
Cycling through TVs and cars like its nobodies business gives them an absolute fortune in taxes.
Banks profit massively too from lending/borrowing to buy these things, like bigger houses than are necessary, fancier cars than you need, and the government always gets its cut.
My things I think I absolutely need
-car (2000 4-door Chevy metro)gets me to and from my job as a chef at Wendy's making $130,000/yr
-contacts so I can see. Without them I'm a cross-eyed fuckface and fuck glasses cuz I'm no nu-male
-good pair of running shoes cuz I like to jog when it's less than 5k to my destination or when I'm runnin from the Po-lice
-quality camera cuz I live close to mountains and I like landscape photography and the lady next door that leaves her bedroom window wide open while she's changing
-good computer and smartphone so I can look at cuck porn at home and wherever I go
-books, cuz tv is shit and I hate anything outta hollyjew
Most everything I can do without. I try live a spartan lifestyle with few material possessions and I buy my clothes from thrift stores for cheap and I manage to look clean and classy and attract the fatties.
>>73845353
It would certainly affect the economy profoundly but I think we would survive
>>73848216
Why would I care about anyone who judges me based on material possessions? I'm actually friends with several people who come from wealthy families (actual wealth, not just high income). They all drive new BMW's, but none of them ever saying anything bad about my 10-year-old beater. Nor do they mind drinking a beer on my porch in my working-class neighborhood with a couple of my working-class neighbors. In fact I suspect most of them like me precisely because they know I don't give a shit about their money. Chasing material desires around will never get you anywhere and just leads to misery and envy.
>>73847429
I can't even fathom where you live that you can live that well for 25k a year in the US. It must be the cheapest part of the damned country. Where I live I couldn't live like that for under 60k and thats if I literally only did those things you listed. No vacations, cheap car, owned nothing fancy except a cheap ass house.
And it would take decades to acquire all that here ON 60k.
Now I know I live in like a top 10 most expensive part of the damned country but still. I don't know any places where a person can live well off 25k a year.
>>73848715
I grew up in poverty with a single mother and I didn't realize until I got a job of my own that it's because my mother is stupid.
She rented houses her whole life even when she had a high-paying union job, she's constantly buying shitty used cars and spending a fortune repairing them before giving up and selling them at a loss, and she's addicted to buying kitschy garbage from the Home Shopping Network that half the time she doesn't even open the box after she receives it.
I can't begrudge her that much because I am the product of a drunken one night stand at a Christmas party - which means I am literally the living result of her shitty decision making skills.
>>73849059
Anywhere in the South or Midwest that's not in a major city.
>>73845546
SPHERICAL
>>73848890
>fuck glasses cuz I'm no nu-male
Found the first thing you don't actually need. Didn't bother reading the rest.
Congratulations. You let some stupid emotions force you to spend more than you needed.
>>73845353
Yes, because we'd be reduced to a third world economy.
>>73847897
I wonder why these books are so popular.
You also seem to imply that the more rich a person is the more status symbols he is going to show. That is not necessarily true. These people might be millionaires precisely because they did not spend their income. In that case, they are just sitting on their money. Also, you don't need to be a millionaire to be rich.
>>73849059
I live in the Dallas area. House payment is biggest part of my expenses ($1200/month) but everything else is usually between $800-1000/month. Partly I'm lucky because I can take vacations and stay with family in places like Utah and Colorado and I know a guy that owns beach rental houses on the Texas coast, so I can go there for free in the winter. I've never liked vacation that much though so I could do with out all that if I didn't get it free. I suspect you could live cheaper if you wanted to. I've found that looking at your monthly expenses using something like Personal Capital helps alot because you can see how much you spend on worthless shit like Starbucks and overpriced Fast Food.
>>73848963
Don't confound your preferences with those of the average individual. It matters to them.
>>73849497
>You also seem to imply that the more rich a person is the more status symbols he is going to show
This is the exact opposite of what I was trying to imply. The whole point of the book is that people who are actually wealthy do not waste money while people who do buy fancy stuff tend to be high-income but low-net-worth.
>>73849518
Yeah but even then, you had to make enough money to get the downpayment on the house. Its cheap NOW, but it didn't start that way.
And only 1000 bucks a month past that?
Thats all your bills, insurances, food and everything else and any frivilous spending for under a 1000 dollars? Thats pretty impressive.
>>73849703
Sorry, I wasn't clear.
You seemed to imply that I meant that the more rich a person is the more status symbols he is going to show*
>>73849703
Did it take into account billionaires? How do they live?
What about people with value in the 50+ million range?
I believe that logic for people that are technical millionaires, ie sub 10 million, but once you get really up there in wealth I doubt its common to live that way.
I mean, you make 560 grand a year, live frugally so you save 20 grand of thata year, make some smart investments and in 40 years that will be well over a million dollars. Technical millionaire, but just because you saved money.
And then the question of, what did you save money for?
I don't like the idea of spending money on stupid stuff, but nor do I understand the concept of saving considerably more than you would ever willingly spend. People need to have plans and budgets. People that save money just to save money don't make any sense to me.
>>73849830
Downpayment was bought through savings, so you are correct. But I had rent at $980/month before so its not like I'm saving money through my mortgage. My rough expenses are as such:
Total House Payment: $1200
Phone: $30
Internet: $35
Electricity $30-50
Car Insurance: ~$40
Dental Insurance: $20
Gas: $50
Food and luxuries make up everything else, but I lump that all together because its so variable. I try to keep it under $400 but I make big purchases sometimes that skew the average higher.
>>73850372
I don't even know where to get a functional phone plan for under 50 bucks a month. Or internet that wouldn't want to make me kill myself for under 60.
>>73848347
Okay, I accept that you make that distinction between needs and wants, even though I still find it arbitrary.
Still, that does not imply that somehow it would be a good idea to limit the consumption of these people. I'm saying this because this is the point where these arguments tend to go. I've heard way too many marxists and environmentalists claiming that we should limit people's consumption.
You should not do it, first and foremost, because people will want you dead for it and will actively fight you, as you are making their life shittier. This is the main reason why radical left-wing revolutions tend to become militaristic very quickly, as the people who now hate them sure did.
>>73850072
Bill Gates and Warren Buffet have somehow managed to browbeat most of the world's billionaires into agreeing to give most of their money away upon death.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Giving_Pledge
By the way I'd totally appreciate somebody explaining to me what the scam is there.
>>73850517
I live off a prepaid mobile plan($100 a year), which is enough for me. I'm almost always in an internet zone, so I don't pay for data, but that might be different for you.
>>73850517
Phone plan is my portion of a family plan that I share with several family members. Makes it a lot more affordable. If I didn't have that, I'd go with something like Cricket or Republic Wireless. I only use data to shitpost on 4chan so its not like I need great service. I get 50mbps down with TimeWarner for $35/month. That is a pretty typical price in my area. AT&T was $40/month for similar rates and I used to have Fios for $42/month before it switched over to Frontier.
>>73850571
You know, I didn't see any hint of coercion in OP.
You shouldn't look at the question as "what if governments decide what you don't need" and you should start looking at it as "what would happen to the economy if the number of frugal people skyrocketed overnight?"
>>73850657
Setting aside your ignorance of the loathesome Gates Foundation Tax Dodge, this is a way to pretend that billionaires are not disgusting.
>>73850571
Dude, I am as libertarian as they come. Seriously, I have no problem with people spending their money however they want. What I do take offense to is people blowing their money on worthless shit WHILE complaining that life is just so hard in today's America.
>>73850690
I wouldn't be able to manage that with my job. I need internet pretty much everywhere.
>>73845353
They would in the US. The US crap-buying is what is currently keeping our manufacturing jobs and plants intact (China). What would happen if we don't support manufacturing? We would soon realize that the Federal Reserve made our money utterly fucking worthless.
>Would things really go to shit if people stop buying crap they didn't need?
No, because it means they'd be more likely to invest in quality items made in the first world with the money they saved (one of the reasons I support school uniforms).
