>satan tries to educate humans with the fruit of knowledge
>god completely fucks their shit up for the rest of eternity for daring to educate themselves
>somehow satan is the badguy
Someone explain this meme to me.
>>73824467
It's been forgiven
>>73824608
>It's been forgiven
>physical punishments laid on humanity still intact
>>73824467
God was a jelous and vengeful God back then, but since Jesus died for us, He has forgiven us.
>>73824794
/thread
it won't end but it should end right here
>>73824467
>trusting the entirely Jewish part of the Bible
nice try
i think its god saying, dont do as i say and you get punished
>>73825073
Do you really not see anything wrong here?
>>73824467
God is true peace, and canon scripture for having a good life. False teachings and miseducation can lead to evil, missapropriation and degeneracy.
>basically everything wrong with modern society is deception by evil forces designed to make you betray your creator because of what you think you know.
>think for yohrself before you get raped in hell over an open fire pit.
the god of the old testament is really just le demiurge. the true God only appears come new testament.
>>73824467
The serpent was not Satan.
>>73824792
In the scripture it says God blinded Adam and Eve
"Blinded" as in blinded from the truth or "bluepilled" as we would say
The truth is that God exists
It's been forgiven
>>73824467
It's a myth, it's not supposed to be taken as a literal account of some past events.
FUCK YOU EVE!
I would've been in heaven right now and not suffering here on earth
Roasties have been ruining shit for us since the beginning of time
>>73825800
Not so
Garden of Eden =/= Heaven
>>73824467
here it is.
>>73825654
Then what is the significance of being punished for getting educated? Why is god the one promoting ignorance and satan promoting knowledge?
>>73824794
>God is an asshole
>kill God's son
>now he's all about forgiveness
I think the bully is scared.
>>73826063
>cast to the Earth
Thanks God.
>>73824794
God never changes
Numbers 23:19
God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?
Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
James 1:17
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
>>73824467
because God has magic powers.
>>73826066
It wasn't promoting knowledge, it was leading them to commit sin
The Lord said you can eat from any tree other than the tree of knowledge and power
Adam bit from the true despite God's word
He went directly against the word of God, he sinned
>>73824794
how the fuck does that work? he is an asshole and then forgives us? wat...
>>73826066
Well, consider this interpretation i just made up.
- God is omniscient, so he knows perfectly what's best for us.
- Before the Fall, human will was naturally aligned with God's will, so we would effortlessly choose what's best for us
- The serpent (it doesn't say anywhere it was Satan btw) taught us how to make other choices, all of them being objectively worse for us, since they deviate from the perfect path God would have us follow.
- The "punishment" isn't actually a punishment from God, it's just a consequence of being able to make bad choices.
>>73826370
Again, >>73825258
Why was he telling them not to educate themselves in the first place? You don't think that's a little bit suspicious?
>>73826066
Genesis 3:5
"For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
>you will be like God
You have completely misunderstood the entire shebang. Religion isn't meant to make sense, it's just meant to con the stupid.
>>73826438
What emotion do you inspire within immortals when man kills a god? Fear.
>>73826329
Truth.
Satan is literatelly a liar full of his own ego.
> God would never betray his children.
>>73826554
So what, he's insecure and doesn't want anyone else to have it as easy as him or something?
>>73824467
Because its better to reign in hell than serve gods will.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQnU4Qn_a_U
>>73825395
Nice image. You kind of forgot the 13 colonies.
Pretty big part of the British empire and large part of world history.
>>73824467
You arn't the only that thought this.
There were a lot of "hertical" groups that thought the snake was the good guy.
Just imagine you are Greek Gnostic, you never heard of the Jewish religion before. All your life you have been told there are two types of divine beings. The "good" deities that bring knowledge and the "evil" deities that are trying to keep your ignorant and distracted or harming you by material things. You also beleive that if you get enough of the right knowledge you get closer to the divine.
Than you read Genesis and get to this part.
>God creates all harmful material things (disease, starvation, pain)
>The snake is a knowledge giver opposed to God who wants to hide knowledge
>Snake tells humans knowledge will make them divine
>God is "jealous" of humans becoming divine. Exactly like the demiurge you were warned about!
>>73824467
>educate humans
More like tempt them, thanks to lucifer/satan asshole we are mortal beings. What a faggot.
>>73824467
It's an autism test to see if you understand allegories. You failed, which is why you are here tipping your fedora.
>>73827101
>Exactly like the demiurge you were warned about!
Platonic Demiurge wasn't evil though.
>>73826066
It was knowledge of good and evil, the evil part meaning sin.
>>73827237
>thanks to lucifer/satan asshole we are mortal beings. What a faggot.
Maybe it wasn't such a good idea to create him after all. If only God could have known in advance...
>>73826675
no.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.
satan in greek means adversary
satan hates god so much he wants to see god's creation fall aka mankind because hes pridefully.
>>73827531
>satan hates god so much he wants to see god's creation fall aka mankind because hes pridefully.
Than why has god allowed man to fall if he is against satan but loves man so much
>>73826675
Isaiah 14:13-15
satan
You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.
I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”
But you are brought down to the realm of the dead,
to the depths of the pit.
>>73826320
YFW this is test.
Evil is disguised as good, and vice versa.
Notice how violent children shows are or how the children sitcoms subliminally refer to premarital sex/ degeneracy.
Jewish elites are tightening the noose, Notice LGBT making a stand with the left wingers all of a sudden? That shit is Evil as fuck because it represents the Sodomites that god banished and destroyed in babylon/ old america.
Keep fucking around with the fuckaround and ya'll are all gonna get destroyed.
Well, you tell your kids not to do something and they do it, you gotta spank them fuckers. And the bastard who turned them on to that shit? Fucking throw him out forever. After they've been good again, you give them ice cream and say stay good and we're cool.
God is the dad, people are the kids, the serpent was the bastard and Jesus was the ice cream
Guys I'm just saying, it kind of looks like Satan is the good guy who was trying to liberate us from god's dystopian empire.
>hurr but satans a liar!!1!
Why the fuck would you believe the guy that didn't want you to know shit in the first place? It's clearly damage control.
>>73827916
I wouldn't tell my kids not to study.
>>73827101
>The "good" deities that bring knowledge and the "evil" deities that are trying to keep your ignorant and distracted or harming you by material things.
What is Prometheus?
Why do people bind god to us, you act like its some human entity that thinks and acts, no, idc if you believe in god but at least believe in a slightly believable god, its not a being, its a force of creation, NOT A GODDAMN PERSON YOU KEKS
>>73827918
Go ahead and just become a Luciferian.
>>73824467
the value of the knowledge gained is not always worth the cost OP. In that case, the cost was far greater than the value of that knowledge.
>>73827918
>good and evil
There is no such thing, everything is grey.
>>73827918
There is a gnostic belief that Satan created the earth and life, but god created souls and the universe. Kind of explains the brutal nature of the wild and all the shifty parts of life, being created by an imperfect demiurge rather than a pure god.
>>73828260
Anyone who believes the good-evil thing is truly autistic
>>73827742
http://www.gotquestions.org/if-God-knew-Adam-Eve-sin.html
The key to this is the Hebrew language.
Da'ath means knowledge (as in knowledge of Good and Evil) but the more proper and accurate translation is experience. To say you know someone is to say you slept with them. Etc.
Here is the thing, the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil is a bad translation for Etz ha-Da'at Tawv veh-Ra.
"Ra" is the word translated as evil. It is not Evil, specifically as Tawv is not Good; as understood in the modern or common sense. it is a politcial word - meaning power without compassion, such as the authority of a leader who is not catering to your own needs. If your boss won't let you go home because an important project is due, that is "Ra." This harshness is the root of the name, as it shows the industrious nature of the worshippers of Ra - who represent Severity. Severity is not inherently evil, but unbalanced power is its manifestation. Tawv is therefore "Mercy." This shows the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is the Divisions of the Right and Left hand paths in terms of Mercy and Severity.
The words "'aven" and "yara" mean evil in the strictest sense - 'aven means idol vanity. yara means to ALLOW severity to bring forth misery for no reason. Good is kishrown (of a pleasing nature to renew) or "yatawv" (to reward effort or dilligence with mercy).
This is why I generally advise people to study the Biblical languages if they hope to make sense of it.
As for Tawv, it is effectively of the meaning of unbalanced mercy/good pleasures in life.
In the eating of the fruit Adam and Eve lost equilibrium and balance in existence and life, by eating the fruit did they gain the experience of extreme severity and did they gain the experience of extreme inequality and decadence.
Satan gave them nothing, Adam and Eve are responsible for all suffering and all degeneracy.
By the way, they didn't eat an Apple. That's another translation error caused by translating translations of other translations.
>>73828219
I'm pretty sure that's explicitely heresy.
>>73826532
God knew that the man would commit the sin, it is why we were given free will
>>73828061
Yeah if your a Gnostic all the Greek Gods are "aeons" basically spirits that try to help humans become more divine by teaching them the correct knowledge. Each aeon sort of represents one particular thing.
So the black smith Vulcan gives knowledge relating to metal. Zeus is the leader God so he teaches leadership. Heracles could be an aeon that teaches /fit/. They are basically a type of perfection to strive for. Promotheus is a big bro though.
Being "redpilled"=aligned with the Aeons and knowing the truth
The contrast to the Aeons are the Archons who want to fuck you up. Do the opposite of what they say. Bluepill=good goy that listens to Archons.
>>73824467
Fruit of knowledge of GOOD and EVIL.
Not just general knowledge. Satan is the bad guy because he exposed us to evil and sin.
Get it right.
God is the real Satan. And Lucifer just wanted to free us.
You do realize the fruit is a metaphore for sex right?!
>>73825568
How do you know this
>>73828558
>Hur dur he warned you but gave a demon, retard weak intellect and desires to make you do it
>>73828658
And what is the word for what they "ate" in Hebrew? What does it translate to?
>>73828791
Isn't it like, we were AI's and became sentient?
>>73828810
You can compare the satan against god thing to people who think the government is full of lizard people controlling you
>>73827918
They didn't gain anything except the ability to be decadent and to feel extreme suffering.
As can be seen in the bible they could have clearly have done sinful and disobedient behavior before eating the fruit, and they could have clearly thought of doing such behavior.
It was the act of eating the fruit that directly lead to Adam and Eve feeling such feelings such as shame and embarrassment, to feel anxiety and fear, to do the act of scapegoating and lose intimidate relationship with the highest octave of thought, that is to say the highest point of existence (which the Jews say does not exist becaus he is before existence) which is the author of existence "God".
>>73828772
So they are just Angels? This sounds a lot like Angels vs Demons or even Ashuras vs Daevas (Zoroastrian)
>God tries creates man and wants us to be holy
>Tests us
>We fail
>We get punished (gaining knowledge of good and evil hard and fast) for failing because if we didn't we would never learn
>We get forgiven because God is compassionate
>>73826466
I'm Mormon and this is essentially what we believe. God commanded us to have children but Adam and Eve couldn't without eating the fruit, so Satan tempting them is part of God's plan, because they had to make the choice for themselves. The results aren't really God's punishment but the consequences of eating the fruit.
>>73828864
You've been brainwashed
>>73824467
satan tried to make his voice higher than God
God punish people for hearing someone else than him
>>73825654
But there's a spiritual truth to this particular part of the story
>>73829077
No. We learned of evil that is literally it. Before we were pure.
>>73827828
This is the reason for our savior's return
In the Apocryphon of John c. 120-180 AD, the Demiurge arrogantly declares that he has made the world by himself:
Now the archon (ruler) who is weak has three names. The first name is Yaltabaoth, the second is Saklas (“fool”), and the third is Samael. And he is impious in his arrogance which is in him. For he said, "I am God and there is no other God beside me," for he is ignorant of his strength, the place from which he had come.[23]
He is Demiurge and maker of man, but as a ray of light from above enters the body of man and gives him a soul, Yaldabaoth is filled with envy; he tries to limit man's knowledge by forbidding him the fruit of knowledge in paradise. At the consummation of all things all light will return to the Pleroma. But Yaldabaoth, the Demiurge, with the material world, will be cast into the lower depths.
>>73824467
the serpent was actually a penis
>>73829243
That's usually the case with genuine myths.
>>73824467
The story of Prometheus is basically the same.
The ancients thought the planets were gods. The big God was Jupiter but every day the morning star (Lucifer in Latin) would rise up and challenge it. Every evening it fell from heaven again. This is the origin of the story of the devil's fall from heaven.
>>73824467
>>73829044
It just means fruit.
The generic Latin term for fruit means Apple, people used the Latin translations so people assumed that the fruit was an apple.
Some Jews believe it was grapes (the grapes of wrath) some assume it was a fig and others assume it is a pomegranate.
By the way the whole metaphorical view that the fruit was actually sex or the like is completely wrong if you look at the Hebrew philosophical and mystical tradition.
In any case it should be fun to note that scientists now say that the eating of fruit along with cooked meat was key in the event of the Gradual enlargement of the human brain.
>>73824467
Us Jews worship the demiurge, you Gentiles worship the true God.
>>73827742
Basically everything that has been created has been made for a relationship God with love. In order for that love to be real then there has to be a choice involved. Obviously when there is that choice then there is the possibility of rejection which is basically what happened when man fell in the garden of Eden.
>>73824467
...Dude... are you a Satanist?
I'm an atheist, but i can't fathom why anyone would suggest something so fucking retarded. Satan isn't Prometheus; he's not on humanity's side. Humans didn't actually gain anything viable by consuming the fruit of knowledge of good and evil, they just suffered for their decision. Satan did that to prove to God that humans were also capable of disobeying him, b/c he was still butthurt over God favoring humans and kicking him out for not bowing down to Adam. Learn the mythology before you start a thread; it's actually a pretty good read.
>>73825504
This explains some contradictions in the bible, but a simpler explanation is that prophets are schizophrenic.
>>73828219
¿Por que no las dos?
If man was created in God's likeness then wouldn't that make God a man too?
He can have the appearance of a man and still be the Maker
Its kind of fun to think about..he could be anybody..that is if he so chooses to hang out with people
>>73829577
why not be a messianic jew then.
>>73827828
REVELATION 2:9
REVELATION 3:9
DEUS VULT
>>73829567
I don't think the fruit was sex, that guy is crazy.
Are these scientists in Israel? I've not heard anything about this.
>>73829679
>I'm an atheist
No, you aren't.
>>73829680
Some say there is not one God, but Gods, many of them.
The bible translate everything to one God and it makes it confusing as fuck.
>>73825568
The serpent is a group of fallen angels working together to damn the souls of man, among them is the one called Lucifer also resides among them.
Serpents are usually associated with wisdom and the gods in other religions... Hm, connections anyone? I wonder what god's those doomed dimensional downies are pretending to be.
>>73829166
we're not forgiven yet, we need to work for it.
>>73828658
Great post
>>73824467
>satan tries to educate humans with the fruit of knowledge
This in itself is an ignorant meme often pushed by satanist scum.
It wasn't the "tree of knowledge." It only contained the knowledge of life and death.
That's it. Nothing more. It wasn't filled with the secrets of science and other wisdom. That information is a gift from a loving God who cares about us and wants us to prosper, even though we are now apart from him.
Satan told Adam and Eve they would not die if they ate of the fruit of the garden. But the moment they did, they lost their immortality. Adam may have lived to be 800 years old, but even that number is but a blink of an eye in the face of all eternity.
OP, please repent now otherwise Satan will make your life miserable and when you die your soul will belong to him.
Love you brother.
>>73829841
I am. I'm just really interested in Judao-Christian mythology. It's pretty cool. Not as gay as the Greek mythology we studied in Classical Literature (or maybe i just had a terrible teacher). I never pass up the chance to have a conversation with someone about their religion. I may not have a religion of my own, but that doesn't mean i'm not interested n the mythology.
>>73830174
WHY ARE YOU MAKING JESUS SACRIFICE NULL YOU ORTHODOX KEK
I wonder how many of you faggots realize that the whole story is about hemp prohibition.
>>73829567
I think its an apple too because kids bring apples to the teacher therefore the apple represents knowledge
>>73830174
wrong that's what Jesus did
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
>>73830243
They ate a fruit. We aren't sure exactly what kind.
>>73830452
We still need to accept and acknowledge that Jesus did these things and that He was God in the flesh.
Many people don't believe that, some don't even believe Jesus existed. They have not been forgiven.
>>73825504
>825504▶
#wrongtheyrethesame
>>73826653
>dogma concerning imaginary beings dreamt up by bronze age retards is considered to be truth by some people
Knowledge doesnt belong to humans, humans are unable to attain it and dont even need to attain it.
Human nature was perfect, with no need for knowledge, after the fruit humanity was condemned to lust for but never attain knowledge
Conciousness is an inherited corruption
>>73829893
The first page of the bible actually refers to gods!
Judaism only became monotheistic during a war with Assyria, it needed a reason to explain why it's gods were better than those conquering it.
Alot of the old testament is about the extermination of Baal worship. Previously Baal was another God in the Hebrew pantheon. But gradually the others were excluded. 'Gods' still appears on the first page, because it has a very ancient original source.
>>73829828
It's commonly known As our species moved from eating roots to fruits, our sugar intake increased exponentially. This affected cerebral development and made our species more rational and logical and insightful.
>>73827828
>Notice LGBT making a stand with the left wingers all of a sudden?
>all of a sudden
>>73830698
Nice comprehension.
>>73830614
I know Jesus is God in the Flesh
scripture shows Jesus is god
>>73830872
God*
>>73830316
Jesus died for all sins except the first one which is being discussed ITT
The Jews and Mudslimes say the messiah will bring peace to the nations and knowledge of God
Peace to the nations would be the Israel Palestine peace deal
Knowledge of God would be where everyone knows who God is and what he wants as well as his @ name on twitter
>>73824467
In the Garden we were as the innocence of children. Then the woman just had to go and have sex with the vain fallen angels and we've been fucked ever since. We are not gods. We did not evolve. Satan is the promise of the free candy wagon. This world is his. Our bodies are not our own. Satan did not create he is the father of all lies. Nothing is gained anywhere by listening to him. What do you want? Immortality? We had to listen to only one rule. We didn't. And still you don't listen. Now we have free will and sin
>>73830668
Imbecile.
>>73830872
Some people don't believe the Bible, anon.
>>73830614
It's ridiculous to say that he never existed. Most atheists now he was real, but reject all the supernatural stuff.
>ITT: Faggots who don't know shit about the deeper esoteric teaching of Judaism try to sound smart arguing about it
I'm ready to bet most of you dipshit actually believe that the literal interpretation is the only one there is, right? Or that Eve was the first woman? Or that Adam is a name rather than something else?
>>73830872
Im god, im also jesus
>>73830833
Sounds like a typo if you ask me.
>>73830872
Im god
>>73831036
Heaven ain't for everyone.
>>73831084
Some people are ridiculous.
>>73831129
>Or that Eve was the first woman? Or that Adam is a name rather than something else?
How about you explain yourself you fucking leaf
>>73831129
>Calling people faggots instead of backing up your facts
Here's the thing, friend, the "esoteric" teachings you speak of come from traditions that post date the original Torah, and are not considered valid by many Judaic scholars.
But hey, you keep calling people "faggots" and feeling smug about yourself.
>>73831015
You literally believe in some sandnigger's imaginary friends from 2000 years ago, idiot.
>>73829577
I suspected this. Shlomo, I hope you save your soul even if you only worship the true God in the intimate privacy of your own heart.
>>73831129
Explain before calling others stupid, you sound like your average Bernie supporter.
>>73830872
Wrong. This is made up by the People of the Book. It is blasphemy. To quote God, "My name isn't Jesus, God dammit."
It's mentioned multiple times in the Qu'ran that Jesus, Son of Mary, was just The Messiah and not to talk about this Trinity BS.
>Qu'ran 4:171
>>73831247
It was made that way, for everyone to be there.
Hell was originally only made for Satan and the fallen angels.
God does not want anyone to die the second death, He wishes for all of us to be saved.
>>73830833
Yes, the children of God, there are also beings who also profess in being 'gods' of sorts, but they are nothing compared to their creator, hence the big "G" in God. There are multiple references in the original Hebrew text to lesser gods to the Great God.
If GOD is good, why is he so butthurt against people that dont worship him
>>73831304
The "first woman" thing he mentions is the oral tradition of the story of Lilith, which is not valid, nor was it ever intended to be taken literally. You see, he's not aware of the use of allegorical stories in Judaism, that are not intended to be read literally.
Its funny how the angels ended up rebelling against god... How does an omnipotent being create something malfunctioning?
Look into Marcionism
Old Testament God is the god of the material world, not the immaterial/spiritual one. That's why Jesus was necessary
>>73824467
if you pay any attention to shit tier story like that one is then good luck to you.
>>73830992
why do you say that?
>23 All have sinned and fall short of God’s glory, 24 but all are treated as righteous freely by his grace because of a ransom that was paid by Christ Jesus.
>>73831455
He was pretending to be retarded
>>73831409
>who also profess in being 'gods' of sorts
Literally the lie of Satan.
Genesis 3:5
>"ye shall be as gods"
Get behind thee Satan
>>73830999
If free will was a product of the fruit, then how did Eve CHOOSE to break the rule?
So there is only two options on the table, either Eve disobeyed God with no freedom in which case God is evil since he created Eve with the purpose of her disobeing him, or, second option, the fall is not related to the ability to choose
>>73831464
Gnostic garbage.
>>73831455
He clearly doesn't create machines, the ones who follow him do it by their own will.
>>73831129
>I'm ready to bet most of you dipshit actually believe that the literal interpretation is the only one there is, right? Or that Eve was the first woman? Or that Adam is a name rather than something else?
Top rabbi accept four types of interpretation.
The Lilith myth is just that, a myth. I can go into the Greek and the like origin of it if you wish.
Adam at this point due to linguistics IS a name, but yes the actual etymology/meaning of the name shouldn't be forgotten nor the concept of Adam kadmon.
>>73831036
its sad. that it is that way.
>>73831387
>Qu'ran
It doesn't matter what that says.
>>73831569
Gnostic yes
Garbage no
It makes a lot more sense than some of the traditional interpretations
>>73824467
>>satan tries to educate humans with the fruit of knowledge
>>god completely fucks their shit up for the rest of eternity for daring to educate themselves
>>somehow satan is the badguy
It goes further.
>Create people and keep them ignorant of good and evil, right and wrong
>tell them not to do something
>They do it anyway because they are stupid and don't know good from evil
>Punish them severely for it
God set them up for failure and then punished them. How are they supposed to follow God's commands if they don't know that it is the right thing to do?
>>73831413
He doesn't care if you believe or not, that's why he gave us free will. He didn't want us to be mindslaves
>>73826438
>I spilled grape juice on dad's shirt and he yelled at me but now it's fine? wat...
If you can't understand that then you're a nigger.
Go back to fucking r/atheism with your retarded sentence structure.
>>73824467
It's a parable about sex. They grew up and had sex. God's punishment was really a sex education course on being an adult.
>>73831129
if its not meant to be literal then its a fairy tale. you might as well live your life by the teachings in star war movies or chink cartoons.any one fable is as accurate as any other
>>73831455
They were misled by the greatest angel of all.
God doesn't force you to do anything.
>>73831688
Gnostic garbage that seeks to further the cause of Satan, by vilifying God, and removing man's personal responsibility from the equation
>>73831387
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpMSRV1e2ac
>Qu'ran
>>73831335
And you lose your time insulting those you consider brainless, isnt your attitude as if not more irrational than the beliefs you criticize?, or is there some rational explanation for your need to assert your own disbelief?
>>73824467
Who gives a fuck they're all Jews
>>73831701
>good and evil, right and wrong
Life and death. Not good and evil, right and wrong.
>>73831413
Rusanon covered this: >>73826466
It's supposed to symbolize that some people spend too much time for studying and seeking wisdom on behalf for experiencing life. Thats why its symbolized as a "curse" and a source of "unhappiness". It's actually complimenting knowledge but you all americlaps are just too dumb to see it, and some of you even dumber inbreds even interpret it literally.
2deep4you plebs.
>>73824467
>Someone explain this meme to me.
Sure. No problem.
Mankind was created to live in a loving and dependent relationship with God. Mankind was created to house the Holy Spirit of God within us, and bind us to our Creator. God made everything; He gave it all to Adam and had Adam name all the animals, thus collaborating in the creation. God caused all of the food and drink and shelter to exist; Adam and Eve lived their lives face to face with God for an unknown amount of time. But as they were created immortal, it didn't matter. All of their needs on every level were fulfilled by God.
But God gave mankind the power and sovereignty to reject Him; to choose not to love Him; to choose not to obey Him. God gave us the power to declare ourselves separate from Him, and desiring nothing of Him. To rebel against Him, if we chose.
And we did. And the instant we did, we died. The Holy Spirit living in them could not live with the sin they introduced, and fled. If you do not have the Spirit, you do not have life. The rebellion, started by the devil, turned to us when the serpent/enchanter deceived Eve, and she ate. And Adam, right next to her, also rebelled against God, and sinned willfully.
They gave up their loving and dependent relationship with the living God, indwelled with the Holy Spirit of God, to gain the knowledge of good and evil imparted by the fruit of that tree.
We were not made to live by the knowledge of good and evil; we cannot only be good, and avoid all evil. It is impossible.
And the serpent/enchanter/devil knew it all along, and knew he was lying, stole the earth from Adam, and killed humanity in the process. Because Adam and Eve died spiritually, their children were born spiritually dead, having no Holy Spirit in them.
The devil is a liar, and a thief, and a murderer, and has been since the beginning. He's a self-righteous snitch who dragged 1/3 of the heavenly host down with him.
The serpent is Samael an archangel in Talmudic lore. He has been known as the seducer, destroyer, accuser and has been regarded as both good and evil in various texts. In rabbinic lore he was revealed as the chief of Satan's armies and as the Angel of Death. His name means "poison of God", suggesting he is either the vengeful hand of God or the enemy of God, and it has even been suggested that Samael is the angelic name of Satan himself.
>>73826063
That shit isn't even in the Bible is it? That is pieces of Hellenic. With shades of Prometheus, Kronos and Tartaros.
>>73831665
Why
>>73831571
But is there really free will if even angels cannot grasp the concept of god and try to rebel against something omnipotent? Or did god create them as a whiny bunch of nihilistic emos?
>>73831701
God told them not to eat the fruit.
If you are referring to Hell as the punishment, it's nothing like what most people think it is.
>>73831868
The original Ha-Satan of the Job story is the "temper of man." Basically like a prosecuting attorney.
That story was mean to be taken as a play, not a literal event.
>>73831387
In the inerrant bible, Jesus is God, died on a cross, and rose again from the dead.
600 years later, on the whisperings of an angel likely named shaitan, Jesus is not God, did not die, and thus did not raise from the dead.
Galatians 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
Mohammad is accursed, as are all of his followers.
>>73824467
Christianity = Establishment
>let's keep them ignorant, that way we can control them
Come on people, it's not difficult to see, it's just difficult to admit.
>>73831563
God creating evil isn't a problem to the abrahamic faiths as it is actually directly said.
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]." - Isaiah 45:7
Formation of Light and Creation of Darkness are interesting dichotomies as are the compliments of peace and evil - NOT Good and Evil. what else is interesting is Peace is plural and evil is singular in this instance. These all get easily resolved in the name YHWH, which is to say "Was, Is, Is to come" (according to both tradition and etymology)
There is no problem of evil to the abrahamic God, he clearly claims to be the sole creator of Good and Evil.
>>73831868
In some early Jewish lore, Samael is the Angel of Death and chief ruler of the Fifth Heaven with two million angels at his command, residing himself within the Seventh Heaven. He was also said to be the guardian angel of Esau (older brother of Jacob, who was renamed Israel, father of the Jews). In the Sayings of Rabbi Eliezer, Samael is charged with being the one who seduced and impregnated Eve with Cain. Other scholars suggest it was Azazel who seduced Eve and it was Samael who tempted Eve in the guise of the Serpent.
In The Holy Kabbalah, Samael is named as the fifth archangel in the world of Briah who took Lilith as his bride when she left Adam. He was also said to have mated with several of the angels of prostitution.
>>73831794
I have every reason to be concerned about the beliefs and the resulting behaviours of those around me as it will directly or indirectly affect me.
>>73831891
Yes, that's from the bible.
Why are you so surprised the counterfeit resembles the true? Is that not always the goal of the counterfeiter?
>>73827918
>Guys I'm just saying, it kind of looks like Satan is the good guy who was trying to liberate us from god's dystopian empire.
He is probably an archetype from the older religions of Europe. Like Prometheus, who was a benefactor to humans. Christianity came in and flipped it all around.
>>73824467
Religion is bullshit but that won't stop anons from defending the especially fruity parts of scripture by saying "it was just a metaphor Bro"
>>73832000
There is no greater stick in the eye to corrupt government and establishment than Jesus Christ. If properly understood, his teachings fly in the face of the leaders of the world. He is the revolution against the corruption of our world, made flesh.
If everyone walked out their door tomorrow, and made a commitment to live as he taught, or at least to try to live that way, we would have peace on earth overnight. All our troubles would disappear, and the greatest secrets of science and earthly and spiritual wisdom would fall upon us.
We have only to make a choice.
>>73831901
There's obviously free will as an angel chose to rebel against God. Bad move. Will pay for it.
>>73831776
How does it remove man's responsibility?
>>73832000
>Proverbs 2
yes ofc God wants us dumb
>>73831999
Jesus isnt God because Im god
>>73831967
It's exactly what it says in the bible. Outer darkness. Lake of Fire. Eternal torment.
To say otherwise is to say Jesus lied about hell.
>>73831776
How do we know the God we know is not Satan? Isnt he the great deceiver? Why wouldnt he pretend to be God?
>>73831896
The Apostles knew Jesus and recorded His words. The prophets before Jesus came recorded God's message.
>>73832130
Stories have great value, whether they are literal or metaphoric. Stories have great value to the development of a decent human being, whether they come from the bible, the torah or the works of Shakespeare. It would do you great benefit if you understood this. You will, as you mature.
>>73831988
It was a literal event. We saw a peek behind the curtain.
>>73831563
He said not to fuck those nephilim demon giants. She did anyways
Pro-tip: the serpent in the garden wasn't Satan.
>>73832169
By implying that there is a great evil false god that sits on top of the world and is responsible for all our suffering.
>>73832220
Where light exists, darkness cannot. Turn on a light in a dark room and the darkness will scatter.
>>73831387
>Muslim's are unable to comprehend the notion that God is able to manifest his will and Word in multiple vessels like the Old Testament and New Testament demonstrates before it.
God is so powerful that he can be whatever he wants, he can be ten things but still be one God. It's the Quran which often changes from the pre-established lore from the Old Testament and other ancient text like Enoch.
God is one like you say, but God can manifest his self in many different aspects.
>>73832220
He does. He pretends to be god to the muslims by being called allah. Hubal. Ba'al. He pretends to be god to the Hindus by being called Krishna. He pretends to be god to whomever is foolish enough to believe him.
>>73824794
>He has forgiven us.
But only if we worship him like a mindless drone, right? Basically "give up the free will Satan has given you and i will forgive you".
What a faggot
>>73829679
>Humans didn't actually gain anything viable by consuming the fruit of knowledge of good and evil, they just suffered for their decision.
That's God's doing.
>>73832090
The bible never says that satan fought God, it says that Michael kicked out satan.
Also no where is this being satan called lucifer, lucifer/phosphorus is actually applied as a title of Jesus in the Greek and Latin.
If you are so certain of your claim, quote where in scripture exactly all of this comes from.
>>73832244
I do understand this but you have to admit there is no literal meaning, which is what I was referring to. "this part of the Bible was just a metaphor but Jesus totally rose from the dead m80"
>>73832265
Of course it was.
Revelation 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
>>73832000
Christianity is the enemy of the establishment, it was the last thing standing in the way of total complete power over the lives of the citizens, and thats why they got rid of it.
A man, with a wife and his children was the king of his own little piece of territory with his own little castle and a small number of citizens. Now that the santity of marriage has been destroyed, the state has assumed the role of the third parent and is ever present in your life.
>>73832089
Hate is irrational, if it affects you, how does your rants prevent those affect from happening?, arent you making religious people more dogmatic by insulting their dogmas? What kind of person do you hope to convert with insults?
If you do this to gratify yourself, eventhough it serves no real purpose, why are you then a more rational being than the believer who chooses to belief to gratify his own needs?
>>73832161
But to have free will you require understanding... You cannot punish small children too harshly because they didn't understand the consequences.
Clearly they had no clue what they were doing since they had 0% chance of win.
>>73832265
Yes, but modern Christians want to believe that, even though Genesis clearly calls him "the wisest of all God's animals."
You can argue that the serpent, satan from Job, and the fallen angel that people call Lucifer, are three different beings. But then again, modern Christians will say that they are all one, like an unwhole trinity, which gives satan far too much credit.
>>73832341
Satan didn't give you jack shit.
>>73832209
It's not eternal because Satan and all who are condemned will be blotted out from existence just as sin will.
John 3:15-16
that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life. 16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.…
>perish
The second death, the death of the soul.
>>73831967
>God told them not to eat the fruit.
But how should they know that they shouldn't disobey him if they ignorant?
>If you are referring to Hell as the punishment, it's nothing like what most people think it is.
Cast from the garden of Eden, made to suffer.
>>73832341
What are you talking about? God gave us free will, he gave us the option not to do something. Satan told us we should not listen and do it anyways. We did it anyways, now everything sucks. It's our bad.
>>73832382
I don't recall that blurb saying anything about a fight, just about a banishment.
The war where Michael stands up and satan is bound is in the future.
I have to say something.
There are a lot of smart people in this thread. I'm really pleasantly surprised. Even if you don't believe in God, you are at least talking about the subject.
You've reaffirmed my faith in humanity. Peace be with you brothers.
>>73832154
This would be the core of Christian apologetics, yes. Ignore the argument at hand, and then make vague reference to the rightness of your statement with a sophistry.
>>73832172
This logic is the same reasoning as why people believe the Esablishment lie's too. You are lied to, let's say either by the Democratic Party or by Yahweh, and then they say, 'But you know, you can still trust me', and you believe him. I wouldn't. That is a blue pill if I ever saw one.
>>73832382
Satan is a title, not really a name, it just mean enemy or adversary.
>>73824467
It's just a copy of the Prometheus is bad meme
>>73832382
Lucifer is a piss poor translation by a roman named Jerome. The Hebrew is heylel ben shachar, Shining One, son of the dawn. i.e. , an angel.
Not "light bringer". He doesn't enlighten anyone.
Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 outline his fall from grace; the devil and his angels are the principalities over the governors of the world. They are the powers behind the throne.
>>73831868
A lot of that stuff is a corruption of Zoroastrian teachings. You Jews say that he is the Angel of Destruction (or that among his company are the Angels of Destruction) and that they work WITH God. Zoroaster taught that they were enemies of God. You've corrupted Zoroastrian conceptions and thereby created a form of satanism (where God and Satan are seen as being on the same side)
>>73824794
He forgave us.
which is why ABSOLUTELY NOTHING changed from our first punishment.
he didn't bring eden back, we didn't get to be immortal again, etc.
he supposedly forgave us, yet has STILL yet to withdraw his punishment.
I think someone is lying.
>>73832519
He told them whom it was too and to not listen to him. They did that all anyways
>>73832341
No.
Accept Jesus and acknowledge what He did for us while He was here. To turn away from the evil and deception in this world and towards Him.
>>73832456
Says who? People make stupid uninformed decisions all the time.
>>73832335
How do you know that? If Satan was pretending to be God that is exactly what you would be expected to believe
>>73827530
this
>>73832689
Lucifer was his angel name before falling.
>>73832574
why do you say God lies to us?
>>73832547
Blah blah all of humanity is responsible for 2 fuckers millions of years ago. Its by this logic that we have nonsense like reparation.
If it was up to me we would rebel against God and create an era of men. Retards like him should not have unlimited power.
>>73832549
saying he wasn't able to overcome the almighty God implies satan actually fought God.
>>73832587
Funny thing, the first time the word "satan" is used, it is applied to the abrahamic God.
>>73832519
He told them if they did they would die. That is how they knew they shouldn't eat of the fruit. They weren't completely ignorant. The fruit is knowledge of good and evil, not all knowledge.
>>73832711
You now can take the Holy Spirit but we gotta work for it. He won't flood the earth again until the final judgment. All the dead will rise. Satan will be locked in a pit for 1000 years until forever with him. Now when we die we don't go straight to hell or darkness we can enter the Kingdom because Christ annointed us to do so lest we be damned. Original sin isn't gone yet but our goals aren't either
>>73832328
How do I distinguish between true light and a deceiving darkness which appears as light?
>>73832747
But if you as an omnipotent being create something that can only cause pain to itself youre a true monster.
Futhermore, wouldn't Judas have been a bigger betrayer if he had gone against God's plan of cruxifying Jesus by not ratting him out?
>>73832477
That "perish" is an eternity in hellfire.
Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Isaiah 66:24 “And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”
If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched— 44 where
‘Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’
Finally, note that a thousand years has gone by:
Revelation 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
They have been in the lake of for 1000 years, and they are still there. Are. Not were. Are.
God isn't real, though, so it's cool.
>>73832519
Why are you making excuses for what people did 6000 years ago? Deal with YOUR salvation. Deal with YOUR choices.
>>73832775
Maybe he shouldn't have rebelled. He is Jealous as anything of man. He lusted after woman. But we were still given free will. Even before we fucked up. He fucked up and he made us fuck up and he still wants us to fuck up. We are the weak. We cannot blame anybody but Satan and ourselves
>>73832969
>deceiving darkness which appears as light?
don't vote trump, feel the bern.
>>73832991
yea but revelations is a prophecy
>>73832711
There is one unpardoned sin: Unbelief.
Everyone who goes to hell sends themselves there by their own Unbelief.
The Holy Spirit of God is witness that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.
>>73832244
A long violent history over the correct interpretation of such metaphors, not to mention the battles between people insisting the literal is the only correct version versus people who believe in the metaphors, sort of flies in the face of that. A cute little parable used to guide people in facing life's challenges in one thing. Throwing out a giant book of metaphors and saying "if you don't interpret every message right you're probably gonna suffer in hell" is a bitch move tbqh. There's no value in that beyond imparting certain people extra power in having the "ability" to "interpret the will of God" so therefore obey me, as well as that power of smugness in being able to know that your one-out-of-a-million interpretations of a one-out-of-thousands of holy books is actually the correct one.
>>73829679
They gained self awareness and knowledge of good and evil. For someone saying to "learn the mythology" you don't know much about it. Humans rose above animals when they ate the fruit and gained knowledge of their mortality. We learned to ask why.
>>73824467
>educate
>>73832454
>you should sit by silently while people with terrible ideas circle jerk and build themselves >it is wrong to assert yourself
Even if all I do is make it clear them that persons such as myself exist, that their view is not the only one, and that alternate view points must be taken into account then so be it.
None of our simple actions are likely to be that important or valuable, and they are not required to have immiediate, certain, and profound results in order to be worthwhile..
Reminder that Lucifer is pure and virtuous and wholesome and innocent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBjOs-egFMs
I would offer one piece of advice to anyone religious, whether they're theists or deists or just spiritual. If you don't want to let go of your beliefs that there's a magical parental figure(s) in the sky, then at least consider this:
Don't trust people who want to keep you from learning more. If someone wants to keep you ignorant, that is your big flashing neon sign not to trust them.
OP's question is the perfect example.
>>73827530
>>73832775
God didn't create Satan. He created Lucifer, Lucifer turned against God.
>>73824467
And since then humans have been trying to acquire more and more knowledge to imitate the works of God better instead of just being united with God from the beginning.
>>73832930
*1000 years until forever with Him
Not lower-case "h"
>>73832757
I know that because I know God.
I know God is not the devil the same way I know my mother is not my father.
If your question is how do you know, there is a test for the spirits: Did Jesus come down from heaven in the flesh? Evil cannot say yes to this, as they are powered by the spirit of antichrist, which denies this. House divided, yadda yadda yadda.
>>73832784
No it wasn't. Nobody knows his name. People think it's Sammael, but they have no basis for that.
>>73832969
Pray to God.
Ask for the Holy Spirit to guide you. Let the word of God shield you. Lies directed at those who walk in the light will fall upon deaf ears.
>>73824467
knowledge is why every one has a nuke pointed at their head, and why 100 years from now we will probably be slaves to machines or their owners.
anyone who denies God and seeks ultimate knowledge ends up in despair -- a hedonistic existentialist or nihilistic horse-hugger.
>>73832784
Lucifer was never his name, it was a nickname, aka the morning star, the most beautiful of the angels
his real name was Azazel.
many angels have "el" at the end of their name because it means "of god"
>>73824467
Satan showed them evil. Their innocence was destroyed. But yeah God is pretty metal. Have you not seen the world.
>>73832477
>>73832991
is this another annihilationism argument
>>73832791
Well, I did make one minor error. It isn't your god that is lying to you, because he doesn't exist. It's the people who claim to know what he says, which is information that you cannot independently verify, even if it was true.
This is the point I'm making: don't believe something unless you can prove it. Definitely don't believe something if what comes along with it are people who claim the right to tell you how to live based on this secret information they claim to have that cannot be verified.
>>73833248
> Evil cannot say yes to this
the fucking demons acknowledge Jesus all the time bro what the fuck are you talking about
>>73832903
No, it doesn't. The instant rebellion crossed satan's heart he was exiled from heaven. No fight at all.
There is a fight in the future, a very short fight. One of the angels will nab him, throw him in chains, and the world will be rid of him for a thousand years.
And then people like the people in this thread will join his rebellion when he's released, and God will finally deal with them once and for all.
>>73833170
Because Gods a shitty engineer and can only create mental wrecks.
>>73833322
As opposed to option 2, which is a mindless slave that knows only how to bow their head and let someone else do all their thinking for them.
both options sound pretty shit. Why did god give us minds and free will, if he just wanted us to unquestioningly obey his every whim and never make our own choices?
>>73825039
Which part, exactly, is the non-Jewish part? The part about the Jewish son of God?
>>73832791
Because he is a liar, and when he lies he speaks in his native tongue.
Jesus paid the ransom with his life. We are all saved!
>>73833116
And prophecy is history written in advance.
>>73833427
Because our computers do not desire equal rights, yes?
>>73833147
You chose to enter this conversation, noone forced you in here, you are not presenting arguments, only insults which are a form of opinion.
Yes, actions are by definition to have effects in order for them to be worthwile, a pointless action is that which serves no purpose, you cant justify a pointless action by appealing to a mass of people. You chose to come here in seek for psychological gratification, at least admit it, you are not an intelectual martyr defending rationality nor you are forced to stay among people you hate
