Now I finally get why everybody hates this guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwjAZD9icLY
this video is fucking cringeworthy, not because of the caller, but because of stef and his interruptions, stupid assertions and general direction he pushed this talk into.
he never tried DMT, yet he positions himself as the authority on halucinations and drug experiences in this interview.
>you need to be an experienced meth smoker in order to have an opinion on meth
k
>>73805013
holy shit this caller is really annoying 5 seconds in
not an argument
Literally, seriously, not an argument. I've never been Jeb Bush, but I can tell you that being Jeb Bush is the suffering life of a mega cuck.
What do you guys think of based Bill Whittle?
Is he red pilled?
>>73805107
yes, I wouldnt agree with "experienced", but you would have to try it at least once in order to understand it to the full extent.
He started out pretty good, but as he got more red pilled he got more bitter, like us.
He's the manifestation of /pol/
>>73805265
Every god damn thread
>>73805271
>you should murder someone in order to have a valid opinion on murder
>>73805013
Lol based Stefan laughing in his fucking face straight away.
> everybody hates this guy
Gold subscriber here, speak for yourself, Molyneux is the best public intellectual to come along in years. If you don't support Molyneux you are probably a fucking tryhard hipster, you're not actually interested in important issues, just being a crybaby. Stef hits all the important points, hits them hard, and has been right in his predictions for years now.
As it happens, I disagree with Stef on this. I think there is value in the psychedelic experience. The caller is a fucking burnout idiot with the self-awareness of a pug.
also,
blow
up
YOUR HOUSE
>>73805322
Nope, He started blue pilled, became libertarian, got redpilled, went AnCap, and ended up /r9k/ level bitter.
Nice thread
You know what would make it nicer?
A single argument.
He is breaking down in his latest videos about muzzies taking England. He is going to fucking lose it when Britain stays in the EU
>>73805413
no, but you need to murder someone to know what it feels like to kill somebody.
If I wanted to know what it feels like to kill somebody, I wouldnt ask you. I would write an email to breivik.
On the other hand, if I wanted to know what it feels like to be cucked by your liberal PM, you would be better suited.
>>73805515
free societies aint free. the tree of reason and evidence gotta be litterd with the blood of voluntarists. john MARX rawls aka "JR TOLKIEN" is not my phislopher. he is an economic determinist and proabbaly kenyesian as well :DD. LOCKE and rand not hegel and nietschze ok. praise aristotle.
Moly looks Aryan as fuck why does /pol/ hate him?
>>73805672
My favourite bit was him talking about the foreign born population of London getting out of control. Whilst being foreign born himself.
>>73805832
Only retards hate him. He's certainly not above reproach, and some of his ideas are radical and most likely batshit insane and wrong, but he's fucking based when it comes to real, tangible issues.
ONE
>>73805832
/pol/ contrarians hate him because they pic related.
here are things Stef is right about:
1. Human biodiversity / race & IQ
2. existence of moral categories / anti-moral nihilism
3. free will, no economic determinism
4. no unchosen positive obligations (collectivism)
5. peaceful parenting / bomb in the brain / origins of dysfunction in child abuse
6. white genocide & multiculturalism
7. movement of genesets within population / r-K selection + welfare state
8. female responsibility / impact of fatherlessness / single motherhood / hypergamy
9. trump
there are many others
>>73806149
>ctrl + f "argument"
>ctrl + f "(You)
>more (You)s than arguments
It's been a damn good thread, so far.
>>73805842
He means brownies, he always means brownies.
>>73805832
He's half jew.
>>73805203
>>73805357
>>73805572
>>73806018
>>73806270
>>73805107
DMT isn't addictive it can actually help those on other drugs get clean (ex alcoholic who did ayahuasca for 5 months in colombia)
>>73805446
t. stephan molineux
>>73806447
Aww shucks, all these (You)s
>>73805013
>>73805013
This druggie got BTFO
>open video
>hear the faggiest voice ever
>close video
jesus fuck our food is so fucked up people need testosterone supplements
>>73805013
send one fucking dollar
>finish video
>stef didnt even allow the caller to advertise his podcast on his show
but he did have time to beg for donations..
fucking stef, this is a new low for him. i feel bad for the caller.
>>73807415
>>73805013
The videos where he takes calls and is supposed to argue are all cringe worthy from his side. Never let's the speaker finish their arguments to the end. (Unless it's a backpatting discussion)
Puts himself on some kind of pedestal and marks out what is right and what is wrong, that can't be questioned and argued on. Also really childish behavior making faces in front of the camera when the caller speaks and so on. That's just stupid when the callers has not had 12 years to actively brainwash thousands of listeners. Of course they won't be as sharp in debating. Just plain stupid.
Before you start screaming butthurt mohamedan swedish leftist. I'm libertarian and agrees on most of his political standpoints. He's just way too self-righteous.
Drug addicts on suicide watch!
>>73810093
He is a fucking hypocrite. If I remember right, he wasnt anti DMT when he was on Joe Rogan show.
Why didnt he tell Joe Rogan that DMT destroys his brain., that would have been a funny conversation.
>>73808774
I was concerned when it wasn't listed in the description, I mean even Deepak the creepy Indian PUA living in Germany got his channel linked, but the guy was such a fucking asshole in the last 20 minutes I didn't even want to check out his shit for a laugh.
>>73810970
he also lied about the defoo thing on the joe rogan show even though joe seen the fucking video
>>73806480
DMT dealer please go
>>73805446
Not to mention how leftists like to feel like their doing good without actually doing any good.
Lost a lot of respect for him watching this, interrupts the caller every 5 seconds making no attempt to entertain a point of your he doesn't agree with then demands time to speak just to call the guy crazy.
>>73811219
I think that's why Stef didn't plug his shit. He usually always gives a shout out for listener projects of any size -- but that guy was a dick. Fuck'em.
>>73811569
wish i could find a dealer the uk. never tried smoking it
>>73807415
why?
>>73805013
not an argument
>>73805013
THEM GREEK MOTHERFUCKERS
>>73805013
>he never tried DMT, yet he positions himself as the authority on halucinations and drug experiences in this interview
I tried DMT. Drugs are incredibly overrated. You can't achieve true enlightenment by saturating your brain with chemicals. At most, it'll make you very smug and self-assured about your opinions re: life, because you become convinced you've stumbled upon extra-dimensional beings when actually all you've done is temporarily alter the neuronal firing pattern of your brain.
>>73805013
Would you shoot me?
>>73805271
>all doctors and scientists who have studied and witnessed the effects of drug use, abuse, and addiction cannot have a valid opinion on the subject and they do not understand it because they have never been users.
holy fuck
>>73811900
>implying it would be interesting waiting for 1 hour hoping the guy finally explains how a go pro vanishing into another dimension is related to objective reality
Stef is a self-jerking asshole but if he doesn't call out plain idiots, he might as well hold podcasts with toddlers talking bullshit all the time
The point of his show is to hold (quality) philosophical debates.
When the other guy straight up admits to making up his own definitions, what's the fucking point
>>73812563
>Drugs are incredibly overrated
>At most, it'll make you very smug and self-assured about your opinions
kek.
>>73805013
Not an argument
>>73805013
How do I call into the show like this?
>>73812798
Wouldn't take an hour if he let the guy finish any of his points.
>>73805013
Hahahaha faggot degenerate got triggered go do drugs somewhere else
>>73812753
now you are just putting words int my mouth. maybe you should apply for CNN or other news networks, you would be a great reporter.
>>73813085
Wasn't it obvious he didn't have a structured point of view?
The guy admitted his definition of reality is literally NOT reality.
>>73813271
Nobodies reality is the same.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
>>73813231
I never did DMT, but I was curious about the experiences of the caller. Sadly didnt learn anything new, since Stef only accepts his own opinions and forces them onto everybody else.. much like a cult leader.
>>73813237
Not an argumend
>>73813407
Nobodies subjective reality is the same.
Reality itself is always the same.
This guy is talking about nonsense mumbo jumbo based on literally nothing, why should anyone entertain it when it has no logical basis or grounding.
>>73813407
>nobody's reality
That's an oxymoron.
Nobody's interpretation of reality is the same, but reality doesn't change because it doesn't depend on your interpretation of it.
That's the whole point with reality, that it's objective.
>>73805515
>AnCap
>Redpilled
Ancap is communism levels of bluepilled, just because it's on the opposite end of the left-right spectrum doesn't make it any less retarded.
>>73812753
You think science isn't biased in this day and age? All these corporations that make profits selling anti-depressants would be completely honest about all drug affects?
>>73813407
>>73813644
Nobodies subjective reality is the same because it's (usually) not reality*
>>73813504
what did you expect? to give you an argument to your non-argument in the previous post??
>>73813271
maybe he should have made a distinction between objective and subjective reality..
>We are using the term objective reality in contrast to subjective reality, which is reality seen through our inner mental filters that are shaped by our past conditioning. Objective reality is how things really are. Although it is possible to perceive objectively, we cannot take in the totality of reality and say anything about it; we can only point to some of its characteristics. So whenever we explore reality in any specific manner, we have to leave out something. For example, when you describe an orange, you cannot say anything about its totality. You have to talk about its color or its taste or its shape. If you want your description to encompass the whole thing -- its color, shape, and taste all together -- you can only say, "orange." It is the same with objective reality. If you want to say anything about it, you have to focus on its specific characteristics.
>>73813644
>>73813678
So you agree no one experiences reality but you think it's really important to only talk in terms of reality?
Why?
>>73813913
That's not what I said.
>>73813987
No you said you shouldn't entertain a thought because you don't understand it.
>>73813913
We all experience reality through our senses.
What you can't do is claim something you imagine is objective and real.
For example, a collection of pixels on a screen might picture a human being but pixels aren't made of flesh.
If you have trouble distinguishing between pixels and real human beings or if you straight out think in your own opinion there's no difference between them, that I can at least say your opinions are not interesting to me.
POST RARE MOLYS
>>73805745
im with you, if you want to speak about sth you need to know it or yet you are probably missing a big part of it
specially drugs, you won't be able to convince a drug addict to stop doing drugs unless you were a drug addict yourself, because you are essentially trying to one-up him in knowledge over sth, only way to get him to listen is showing you know more, you can babble all the technical shit you want but won't matter because its missing the reality of the experience
>>73813237
you literally said "you would have to try it at least once in order to understand it to the full extent"
Which means that you literally believe that doctors and scientists who study drug abuse and addiction do not understand the full effects of drugs and are not authorities on the 'drug experience'.
please help correct me where I got that wrong. It's not my fault that your opinion is retarded, I'm just trying to understand how you came to it.
>>73814387
No, I said you shouldn't entertain a thought which has no logical basis.
Saying there are infinite realities is the same as saying there is a God. Neither are grounded in actual science.
I did entertain it, I came to the conclusion that it is stupid and has absolutely no basis at all, none, zero. Therefore I can disregard it as nonsense.
>>73814809
Drug addiction != normal illness
With a normal illness you don't want to be sick, with drug addiction the drug's benefits outweight the ills at least in your mind.
If the guy has no idea what is going on in your mind, how is he going to convince you to stop?
>try lsd
>everything just turn into a silly fun house
The most stupid thing I have experienced.
>>73806480
M8 its all about Ibogaine. If you use any other hallucinogen to quit drugs then you're retarded. 90% cure rate for heroin addiction and alcoholism. Normally heroin has a 9% success rate with conventional methods.
>>73815064
Explain to us how drug addiction is not an illness and please also explain what these extraordinary illnesses are in comparison to "normal" illness.
>>73814506
If 2 people look at those pixels and one is colour blind, both have a different perspective on reality, is one not reality?
>>73814944
You don't understand a point of you so you say it has no logical basis. Science hasn't proved God yet it cannot disprove it, science hasn't even come close to figuring everything out yet, it has absolutely no idea how to explain consciousness. Does that mean consciousness isn't real? Pic related btw.
>>73805446
so he really does have fanatic followers who have nothing better to do than listen to 2+ hours of him blabbing everyday
>>73815288
I already did, you chose to be sick
There's a reason why there's drug culture and not fever culture or tonsils culture
drug abuse is a chosen way of life not simply a physiological problem
>>73815548
nearest thing might be bugchasing
>>73814809
they can only speculate what it feels like to use the drug. of course they can be competent on the various effects the drug has on the body and maybe even the behaviour of the abuser, but they can never be sure about the psychological effects of the drug.
its like when teens mastrubate and speculate what its like to fuck a real woman.
>>73815064
I guess you can try things on addicted people and judge by the outcome.
If you try X thing on a patient and he doesn't improve, then you should try something else, whether that is medication, therapy or whatever.
Of course you'll just have to deal with many failed experiments.
>>73815300
Both experience reality in their own way.
My point is that once they've interpreted that reality and have formed an opinion, you can test that opinion against some objective fact to see if their opinion is wrong or right.
For example if the color blind person says the pixels are real human beings, then I guess you can demonstrate that pixels are not human beings ( by a variety of ways) so he's wrong.
>>73805013
>Alter you brain
>think altered reality is true reality
Psychedelic users are some of the most retarded people on this planet.
>>73815300
I actually believe in God thank you very much.
It has more grounding than some hippie who has fried his brain. Just because he took a drug and experienced something that doesn't naturally occur in reality by natural means doesn't mean anything. All it proves is that if you take a drug used to stimulate a particular function of the human brain. it will do so. That's it.
>>73815548
Granted as far as physical illnesses, but I'd like to hear about mental illnesses. You think people who are depressed have no choice? Were they born that way?
>>73805013
>DUDE DRUGS LMAO
Kill yourself
>>73815892
I hope you are not religious, because 99% of religions sell you an alternative reality called afterlife
>a fucking leaf
>>73816132
I'm not. Do you admit you're retarded to think that?
>>73806149
Not an argument
>>73816132
>DRUGS ARE THE TRUE PATH DUDE
Please kill yourself
>>73816049
>all people who do drugs are obnoxious
>>73816132
Yeah, something that comes after life.
>I'll take what is a false equivalency for $500
If you would like to try explaining in a different way what you were trying to say I'm interested.
However, considering no one has experienced what came after and lived to tell about it, there is no standard to compare what occurs in it. Therefore reality could be exactly the same in the after life, we have no way of knowing. An afterlife existing doesn't have anything to do with alternate realities.
>>73806480
t. Dealer
>>73816222
I am not a drug user, I've not experienced altered states of reality. But yes, I admit it is retarded to give cash to preachers who promise you an alternative reality, which nobody can verify exists.
>>73815944
No, i think depression is a symtpom of chemical imbalances (Eating wrong, not having enough sun, not going out, not doing exercise, etc.) , which in some cases may even be a symptom of being an anxious wreck that can't go for a run without getting paranoid or can't wait more than 5 min to have his food.
>>73815855
Yes of course, there is a "physical" forced approach to it, but the old time "outright convincing you of quitting by yourself" needs the practicioner to at least know what the effect of the drug is from a human vantage point.
>>73816132
Not the same thing retard. Its called a soul. Shoo fedorafag
>>73816428
Denbts
>>73814560
>>73816540
>it's retarded to believe in a different reality if it comes from a person
>it's not retarded to believe in a different reality if it comes from a person who fucked their brain up with drugs
K
>>73816540
How's middle school my Serbian friend?
>>73815944
Dreams don't occur naturally in reality? OK.
Believing in God stimulates a part of the brain just like a drug, since animals don't believe in God you could say believing in God is not "naturally occurring in reality" and you have "fried your brain" by believing it. . All it proves is that if you believe in God to stimulate a particular function of the human brain. it will do so. That's it.
Animals do take drugs voluntarily though, so it can be argued taking drugs is more natural that believing in God, and both affect the brain "unnaturally".
>>73815855
So it's irrelevant which persons reality is correct? So why is it so important that someone always talks in terms of objective reality to you?
>>73816451
My standpoint is exactly the opposite. I do not believe in an afterlife and I find it extremely weird when people question reproducible states of reality (DMT, shrooms), but blindly accept fairy tales from their local preachers.
>>73810093
This desu.
Also there are tech now that can record dreams so there is that.
>>73816888
>life after death is equal to dude weed lmao
Which Tool album is your favorite?
>>73805013
About 39 minutes in he starts asking the guy about his childhood, what a faggot
>>73805013
Tell me OP, what is your ACE score?
>>73816888
this is because "the experience" is a performance
You either experience it with 0 knowledge of it and a shaman whispering in your ear, or you go for it after learning what it consists of and preparing a concordant setting.
There might be chances when you fall into it without previous knowledge or shamanic influence near you, but i guess it only happens to people who are already predisposed for that kind of introspection.
>>73815102
not a random trial, bullshit
>>73816846
Taking what I said out of context. You are so beyond dishonest it's disgusting.
Dreaming while you are awake, especially hyper dreams which you "see" while on DMT.
No, we think it, we are in reality, it occurs naturally. No, it's not presenting anything foreign or produced by synthetic means into our bodies. Therefore it doesn't alter our brain chemistry, where as taking drugs ALTERS the actual chemistry of the brain.
>appeal to nature
Animals kill their young and partake in cannibalism, so unless you are prepared to argue those things are more natural as well, stop talking.
>>73817091
none, but I do like this song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj-10lIrboM
Druggies BTFO! Btw that caller was straight up retarded. Why do only low testosterone cucks call the show?
>>73816846
>which person's reality
It confuses me that you are using possessive 's here. We can't have realities, we don't own reality, it doesn't depend on us.
If you're talking about our INTERPRETATIONS of reality, then yes the way we perceive reality is really important because our ideas formed by our interpretations affect real people in real life.
>>73805013
You don't have to personally taste shit to have an informed, evidence-supported and logical opinion on shit eating.
>>73816888
No shit it's reproducible sherlock, THEY are MADE to DO that.
It's not a state of reality either, it's altered, therefore no longer reality.
>>73817011
And people can share each other dreams. But if you can't even entertain the idea of this being possible they wont experience it.
But its their loss so what ever.
>>73817441
I should clarify that our ideas affect real people when they are expressed through actions.
>>73817358
what does bug me though is the aesthetic similarity in the visions
that "clockwork elves" thing
is it a meme?
or is it there?
>>73817441
Can I be transreality?
>>73817497
>>73815676
Do you have to get shot with a 9mm bullet to become the authority on the effects of handgun wounds?
>>73805322
>>73805357
>that filename
noice
>>73817528
>And people can share each other dreams
source
>>73817672
Is it hard to not cut yourself with all that edge anon?
>>73817590
It's the same drug. It's not surprising for there to be similarity in the visual effects it produces.
>>73817358
>Animals kill their young and partake in cannibalism, so unless you are prepared to argue those things are more natural as well, stop talking.
Animals and humans do those things, I would honestly love to hear an explanation of how something living things of a huge range of species do is 'not natural'.
>where as taking drugs ALTERS the actual chemistry of the brain.
Our brain chemistry alters itself every second of the day, eating a chocolate bar alters it, taking a shit alters it, someone speaking to you alters it, believing in a deity alters it, taking a drug alters it. How do you determine which ways to alter your brain chemistry and 'legit' and which aren't?
>>73817441
So you agree an interpretation of reality is more important than the actual reality because it's what people live their lives by, but you dismiss any idea that doesn't match your version of reality.
>>73816701
I was just watching Frasier today and I was struck by how much he reminded me of Stef.
>>73817729
you could never know how much it hurts, if you never got shot yourself. you could only speculate.
>>73817839
yeah, thats one of the downsides
>>73818075
What does "more important" mean?
>>73817672
Things that exist without us here to consciously think and acknowledge "hey, that is a tree".
The Universe was here before us, so was the Earth. Whether we are here to perceive them by the use of our senses or not does not deter them, nor prevent them from existing. As they exist, they have being, since they have being, they actually are.
>>73807415
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwjAZD9icLY
nothing in an anarchy is "legal" as there is no legal system to create a law around. not understanding that making something "legal" is implementing regulatory control over it, and making something "illegal" means you have a strict prohibition to "legalizing" that something. without laws, there is no legal or illegal, its moral and immoral, and you will be dealt with by the hands of the people you have wronged against, rather than the "legal" arbiter. just saiyan.
>>73818214
If you believe something is true (and it's not) you will act as if it is true, you will not act as if it is not true.
>>73818297
quantum physics would like to disagree with you
>>73818075
So are you saying cannibalism is natural? Yes or no?
You think we should eat each other? And that it would be perfectly okay?
It alters it permanently you fucking dishonest pseud. I'm done with you.
>>73817831
>source
How would i source you on that? I mean sure there are some extremely rudimentary tech that can record dreams in low quality and if you could record the dreams of two or more spiritually/mentally advanced people i am sure you could recreate. But why bother? The skeptics would just disregard it as random coincidence because it doesn't fit their narrative.
This is something you need to experience for yourself because no one is going to prove it to you. But to experience it you need to believe it and most people need to experience it before they believe it so they will never experience it. Well, until you die ofc.
>>73818407
not sure why i linked a youtube to my post. sorry bout dat. im too lazy to edit it.
>>73818459
For cultures that have evolved a cannibalist lifestyle it is natural, how could you possibly argue it isn't?
The second part is your inability to argue showing. (So is the third)
Someone saying something to you alters you permanently.
>>73818429
Guys all this shit we discuss has an end-game:
How our beliefs, when acted upon, affect actual reality.
Practical example:
If you think pixels are real human beings and you try to fuck a monitor, you won't get an offspring.
If you think pixels aren't real human beings and you actually try to fuck real humans, you might get an offspring.
All this reality talk has no point if the horizon of our discussion isn't how our thoughts ACTUALLY affect real shit around us.
>>73818448
No, it wouldn't. If you are referring to quantum fluctuations, all that means is a TEMPORARY change in the amount of energy in a particular space. It has nothing to do with trees morphing into and out of there forms based on a conscious observer.
In the future, stick to things you know a thing or two about.
>>73805013
this is your home >>>/int/59221204
>>73818661
It leads to numerous detrimental effects.
Don't know what you are trying to say.
Not the chemistry of your brain.
>>73817831
"Science fails to recognize the single most potent element in human existence. Letting the reigns go, to the unfolding is faith. Science has failed our world. Spirit moves through all things."
>>73818945
Not an argument.
>>73819086
How is faith different than any other abstract opinion
>>73818945
Why is Stef so seldom to be seen on other shows? He pumps out videos every single fucking day but many of them are just against these low-energy retards like in the OP.
>>73818758
I agree with everything you just said, and we have been coming at it from different angles.
But if you agree you can change reality by changing your interpretation of reality, why are you against adopting a view different from objective reality?
>>73818991
>It leads to numerous detrimental effects.
That doesn't mean it's not naturally occurring.
>Don't know what you are trying to say.
You claimed me saying cannibalism happens means I MUST want to eat people.
>Not the chemistry of your brain.
Yes, the chemistry of your brain can be changed permanently by something someone says to you.
>>73805013
>OP
>Some fag who listens to Joe "The retarded fucking cuck monkey" Rogan and believes every word he says
>DMT is great maaaaaaaan psychedelics maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan. DUDE WEEED! LMAO
>>73819262
Because he is cringe worthy and obnoxious when combined with any other person.
His best videos are when he is alone.
>>73818791
they cant morph out of reality, because there is always some sort of consciousness observing them.
And trees themselves are conscious to a low degree. But everything else, that cant be observed 100% of time, tends to fluctuate.
>>73805013
Drug experiences are mystical adventures that enlighten you about the universe, it's just chemicals making your brain activity different.
Nothing positive about it at all, you're just tripping on drugs.
>>73805013
>Pineapple Netherlands butthurt because druggies got BTFO
Oy vey what a surprise
>>73819895
I am not that mad about the video in itself, but about the fact that he didnt allow the guy to promote his podcast on his show.
And as the swedish dude noted, he also made those childish faces during the conversation.
>>73819315
I don't believe we can change reality just by changing interpretation. Only by actual actions.
If I see an X thing and I suddenly believe it's not X but it's Y, it doesn't become Y unless I interfere with the physical world and actually rearrange its molecules or whatever and REALLY turn it into Y.
But even if I manage to turn X into Y it doesn't mean it wasn't X to begin with, so objectivity still stands and it doesn't depend on my interpretation.
In short, our brains are just the receiving end antennas of the signal called "reality".
If you ask me what actual reality is made of, before it reaches my "antenna" then I have no comprehension to answer.
>>73819315
Again, are you saying it is okay to be a cannibal? Yes or no.
No, I didn't. Quote me. What I actually said, seeing as you are nothing but dishonest, was that firstly, it is an appeal to nature. Secondly, that if you want to appeal to something as being natural, that you must also believe that since it is natural, it is an okay thing for us to do.
I'll grant that to you if you accept it only happens when the person actually believes it to be true, and also that anything we say to ourselves can have such effects and can be used to negate, amplify, and produce new changes. And also that these effects are not permanent in the sense that a drug produces, these take time and have to be sustained by a constant will of the mind.
If not, then I would still say they are not permanent in the same sense as the change a drug produces.
>>73819812
If it's not being observed how do you know they tend to fluctuate? Don't answer that.
Are you saying God is the permanent observer?
>>73820674
I assume they do, since it can be proven on a smaller scale (double slit experiment).
I asume, what is true on the smaller scale is also true on the big scale.
also, you are pretty arrogant. I am not surprised you like the autistic cult leader.
>never tried DMT
no thats wrong. Every single person does DMT every day. The brain releases a dose of it as you sleep which is why you don't remember sleeping, its also why you get that groggy feeling if you wake up early because the chemicals haven't broken down yet.
>but its a natural body function.
You're brain is making high grade pure cut DMT hallucinogens to function. It does all kinds of wonders to your thought process without you understanding.
>>73820143
>I don't believe we can change reality just by changing interpretation. Only by actual actions.
Yes but changing our interpretation will change our actions, which will change reality.
If a beta guy thinks a cute girl flirted with him he will probably be really confident and really enjoy himself for the rest of the day, even if she didn't.
Obviously it's not a good idea to completely delude yourself, but by sticking so rigidly to finding out objective reality all the time you miss out on the potential to affect your life and the lives around you in a potentially really positive way.
>>73820509
>Again, are you saying it is okay to be a cannibal? Yes or no.
I'm saying it happens, it doesn't matter whether I think it's okay. It happens naturally in this world, you're unable to deny this so you resort to this question again that would mean nothing no matter which answer I gave
>that if you want to appeal to something as being natural, that you must also believe that since it is natural, it is an okay thing for us to do.
Why does something being natural mean it's okay to do? This is your opinion and I disagree.
>>73820136
He's making those faces because he can't hold himself back at the nigger science this drug addicted Marxist spergs out.
>>73818448
The Copenhagen interpretation is garbage.
>>73821039
he is making faces in every video he does. he is much like the leftists, he thinks all his viewpoints are indisputable.
I dont even understand why people call into his show.
He should just do monologues.
>>73806240
True.
Things he's wrong about though:
>muh anarchy
>>73816846
>>73821015
Those are your words not mine.
>>73821491
I copy pasted from your comment and changed "taking drugs" to "believing in God".
>>73820949
What is always observing then?
>>73806480
>dude this drugs gets you off of all drugs, it's not even addictive
>like, I only did it for 5 months on
>>73821349
MUH SCHRÖDINGER'S CAT IS WHAT SCHRÖDINGER ACTUALLY BELIEVED
>>73821015
If our interpretations of reality doesn't change reality itself then reality is objective and only the way we understand it changes.
That's the whole point.
Also, I think it's just physically impossible to observe pure "objective reality" since we'd have to use something besides our brain for that.
We just can hope our interpretations of reality lead to actions which have the results we want.
My sole problem with all this is that the guy in the OP thinks drugs are a gateway to an alternate state of reality while I think drugs are in no way affecting actual reality at all, they just interfere with our processing units aka brains.
>>73821605
So you used my argument to argue against my argument? K
>>73805203
Yeb! Press F to mourn brother Jebediah.
There is nothing wrong in taking non adictive psychotropics. The problem here is what kind of people is taking it and for what pourpose.
The LSD is one of the best drugs to deal with some mental illness, the depression is one of them, but nobody is studying this because the society keep treating these things as a taboo.
>>73805013
I don't wish death upon anybody... only a few exceptions, Molyneux is one of them. If he dies, I'll celebrate.
>>73821608
humans, animals.. I'm guessing flora has some sort of consciousness and memory too. microorganisms also (bacteria, viruses).
>>73822153
>If he dies
Well at least then he will find out the truth.
>>73821874
Exactly, to point out the flaw in your argument, the fact you didn't notice says something. But you didn't answer the question, why do you think that because something is natural it is okay to do?
>>73821868
I think the guy went so deep down a rabbit hole he might have had something worth talking about he just really struggled to talk to someone who was so far away from his point of you. If a drug causes someone to see other ways to act or behave and they do that then you could argue that the drugs have changed reality (after the drug experience). They might even have a positive effect.
>>73822153
What if you try to find an argument why he's wrong?
For example, I watched a video of his where he claimed that future generations, if not subjected to evil things, will be free of evil.
In my opinion, evil is embedded in human nature, so I think he's full of shit and I'm not really sure if most of libertarians think this way, but it's completely utopian and any theory based on this misconception will never work in reality.
>>73805013
>reality is a subjective experience
Good fucking God I cringed because I used to be like this fellow.
And in some ways I still am but, shit dude, you can't just go ahead and neglect objective reality because DUDE CHEMICALS IT'S ALL SUBJECTIVE LMAO.
Psychedelics are cool but fuck do they make some people cringey fucks.
>>73822153
Do you support me being shot?
WHAT THE FUCK IS AN ARGUMENT THEN??
>>73805013
>he never tried DMT, yet he positions himself as the authority on halucinations and drug experiences in this interview.
This is precisely the only way one can have a proper opinion on the subject.
>"When a man is getting worse he understands his own badness less and less. A moderately bad man knows he is not very good: a thoroughly bad man thinks he is all right. This is common sense, really. You understand sleep when you are awake, not while you are sleeping. You can see mistakes in arithmetic when your mind is working properly: while you are making them you cannot see them. You can understand the nature of drunkenness when you are sober, not when you are drunk. Good people know about both good and evil: bad people do not know about either.” - C.S. Lewis
>>73822348
I never said that.
You have been the one saying that. You are the one who appealed to nature not me. Considering the entire basis of your argument, is my argument, and then you speak about flaws says a lot.
>>73822201
They don't have brains. Humans and animals sleep. Even if we didn't what is observing the rest of the Universe? That can't be your answer.
>>73818151
NOT
A
SALAD AND SCRAMBLED EGGS
>>73822428
buddhist philosophy argues that we are incapable of perceiving objective reality. Everything you perceive is subjective, since it gets filtered through your brain.
>>73805013
Drug addict detected
>>73822838
Buddhist philosophy is one of many. One that I quite like, one that I use in my own life...but it's just that, one of many others.
>>73822348
When someone says "reality is subjective" then what I understand from this is that the shit we imagine is can be real in some way.
For example, if I think I'm flying, then I could actually break the laws of current reality (gravity etc) and fly.
What you are saying (and me too, I agree with this) is that thoughts lead to actions and actions interfere with the real world.
This a different thing and not what that fag was talking about when he explained how drugs create an actual reality.
>>73822838
How do they establish truth?
>>73822787
I said it "can be argued", you have ran with it for like 10 posts, pic related. Why would you push that point so strongly if you disagree with it? Because you couldn't argue the actual point I had made before?
This started with
>It has more grounding than some hippie who has fried his brain. Just because he took a drug and experienced something that doesn't naturally occur in reality by natural means doesn't mean anything. All it proves is that if you take a drug used to stimulate a particular function of the human brain. it will do so. That's it.
You literally appeal to nature here and then spend 10 posts berating me for "appealing to nature" when all I did was quote you to point out the flaw in your argument, think very carefully about that.
>>73822787
I dont think you need a brain to be conscious. I would argue simple cell organisms and micro organisms are conscious too and they can interact with their environment and observe it (too some degree)
>>73822838
But there's a difference between saying reality is subjective and that the way we interpret objective reality is subjective.
>>73823396
I was showing you why it cannot be argued. Do you have ADHD? Not trying to be mean.
That's not an appeal to nature.
>>73823473
Based on what evidence?
How will you go about proving it? How are they conscious? Where does there consciousness come from? How will you find out where it does come from it you can ever show they even are conscious?
Can any of you name a single argument in this thread?
I didn't think so.
He calls himself a "free thinker".
What is his job? He only talks. All talk no action. He should just stf up and do something productive.
As of now he just begs for donations. He says anything to get his money. You could say he uses the immigration problems as marketing to push himself into the hero role.
And every sentence which is not making him the pioneer of revolution is not an argument. He only talks with other people to push himself into the maker role. And to literally make the whole video his face is his fetish.
>>73823850
I think you just formulated an argument there
>>73823528
depends, my belief is that we collectively create the reality. we choose from a set of possibilities. (much like the photon wave collapses into a single particle when observed)
by this definition, objective reality would be something that we all agree upon and it is constructed by merging together many subjective realities.
>>73818448
>>73819812
You just proved yourself an idiot.
This is why you came here to defend your buddy, in the form of attacking Stefan's arguments in the form of ad hominem and tu quoqueing us.
Only people who doesn't follow rationality will believe and stand by the Copenhagen Interpretation.
You are the same as religious people.
Here's how:
>hey, there's this new occurence that seems strange
>what if I tried to look behind this happening as to the rest of the world, rationally, trying to find the rules behind it
>nah, forget it, it's some supernatural power and sheeeeeiiiit
Bohr and Heisenberg were a shame to science.
This is why just by studying the already known data about physics doesn't make you a physicist
(just like reading philosophy doesn't make you a philosophER if you don't apply what you learnt and simoultaniously struggle to understand more of reality and make up your own rules based on the percieved reality)
If by years of learning science you jump to supernatural/mystical conclusions instead of keeping to try to get to a rational explanation (even if faced with difficulties) than
YOU HAVE LEARNT NOTHING AT ALL
NOTHING
See picture for your usual popular pseudoscience (aka memes)
I bet you also believe in String-theory by Dr Naruto
>>73821349
>>73821769
This
>>73823852
NOT
>>73821629
Actually really good argument. Doing a drug for five months and not getting hooked is pretty hard evidence for it not being addictive.
For the general discussion on psychedelics.
I wouldn't however say that doing psychedelics for five months straight is good. You get quite fucked up mentally. I've done a couple of different sorts and it takes a while to get back to what everyone else feels as the reality. Doing psychedelics got me out of suicidal depression and I found religion and for that I'm extremely grateful. But doing it without such a purpose just for the mind fuck isn't worth it in my opinion.
>>73823682
>God is more natural than drugs
>Point out that drugs are naturally used more than the concept of God.
zomfg you appealed to nature and I didn't
>>73823473
>I dont think you need a brain to be conscious
Very simple to prove, right?
Ask your friend to take out your brain.
Then observe the outcome.
>>73823933
But what happens to your theory when you realize we've been alive for such a short amount of time and the universe doesn't give a single shit about us?
Do you think that if no humans were alive, something would change in the universe when it comes down to basic laws etc?
>>73813858
>Although it is possible to perceive objectively
Where the fuck are you quoting from? See difference between sensation and perception. This is most definitely NOT a statement that can be made unqualified, even in a room full of staunch materialists.
>>73824146
>put a single cell organism (with no brain) in a petri dish.
>put some poisonous material in it.
>the single cell tries to escape the material
voila, you just proved that organism without a brain has some sort of consciousness
>>73824075
I never said that.
That was you that said that.
>>73824496
Are you schizophrenic?
have a rare stef
>>73822838
Buddhism is not "philosophy" at all in the scientific meaning of the word.
Just like what you and your druggy buddy says isn't science. Something that is bad science is not "science". Noise is not "music". Random scriptures are not "poetry".
You are reaching very far in relativism.
Which has been one of the main goals of Marxism and all the leftist tenets that stemmed from it.
>yeah I don't have proof but yeah huh dude like what if Earth is flat and floating on a huge turtle that is standing on an elephant? Like, can you prove to me it's not true? .... No, man we've been lied all through our lives. Google lies. It's in on it. Astronauts lie, they're in on it. And when you use airplanes to travel, they project stuff on the windows so you don't realise the truth. Now what, huh? Wait, where are you going, so did I just win this argument? Must suck to be a loser, mate. Watch more Dr Naruto and Science Nigger, plebian!
>>73805832
>At Least Half Jewish
Mudslimes can't get over that.
Molyneux is great m8.
>>73824555
No but I can quote you and you can't quote me.
>>73824758
once science provides me clear logical explanations how the universe works, I will abandon my "superstitious" beliefs.
but right now, science struggles very much to do so and I dont see any TOE on the horizon. and to be quite honest, I dont think they will ever be able to explain it.
>>73824831
>>73815944
Here is where you said that. You really have lost it.
>>73807102
lmfao
>>73805013
>muhamed bin croat this mad
Molyneux still batting 1000 against muds
The body/mind experience is somewhat mysterious.
For example, for every man it is extremely upsetting to not see the back of his body. Only other people can see it.
You can get around this if you use mirrors.
Psychedelics are another way of using mirrors by connecting the dream with the wake state.
If we say that mirrors are part of technology then psychedelic drugs are also a technological tool and should be used as such.
It isn't far fetched to hypothesise that psychedelics played a major role in the evolution of mankind and still do. (among many other things of course)
Both Stefan and his retarded guest should quit their bitching.
>>73821011
oversimplified but indeed true and underrated
Also, to the general topic, i support the idea of drugs being used for special treatment and thus i hate the stigma they have, and at the same time hate abuse of anti-depressants, alcohol and nicotine in this day and age just because they are legal, and drugs aren't.
Dissociatives are proven to better the depression because they cut some ties with your brain's default mode network (causing so called "ego death"), especially mushrooms because they also make new serotonin pathways in the brain.
All this /b/ tier shit like "X is degenerate, Y is not" should just die, you can choose to chug 6 liters of water and die, or you can drink 2.5 liters daily and live.
You can also choose to smoke up a kilo of crack and die, or try psychedelics once in a lifetime and live
"Dose determines the poison" - Paracelsus
>>73824044
He couldn't do it more because he left South-America, where he could get his hands on Ayahuasca. He can't get it in the USA OR if he can, he finds it too risky to try. Therefore he doesn't take it anymore.
And just like you said, using a mind altering substance for 5 months straight on must not be a pleasure for your brain. It works by messing up the bio-chemical balance of your brain, right? So it's been messing it up for 5 months. Doesn't sound healthy at all.
>Doing psychedelics got me out of suicidal depression and I found religion and for that I'm extremely grateful.
Typical leftist bullshit cuck stuff - namaste, my brother.
Which is not an argument, that I fully accept.
But here's an argument: You could have worked on it by being conscious about it, by observing your problems. You could have went to a psychologist.
I accept that certain drugs can help ease your anxiousness on the short term.
Drugs alter your consciousness - your capability to percieve reality. By doing this, they take your focus away from your anxiety. So you think "Wow this helped me, this must be a good thing".
But if you are conscious and doesn't have anxiety or problems you deem unsolvable, why would you keep on using any drugs?
Instead of learning self control to taming your anxiousness and/or easing your physical anxiety by some activity (e.g working out), you are using an external chemical that short circuited the problem solving (at least seemingly, on a short term).
By thinking that the drugs helped you and solved your problems, you will turn to the drugs again when the same problem arises. And it could arise over and over again until you learn to solve it on the long term by getting stronger mentally - and not by hitting your head with a hammer that makes you more stupid, therefore: less conscious to negative stimuli that caused your anxiety)
You could have just read some of the stoics e.g.: Marcus Aurelius
>>73827320
source for dissociatives:
jop.sagepub.com/content/30/4/344.abstract?rss=1
>>73825244
No where is the word "natural" in that post.
Come again.
>>73827604
>>73815944
>doesn't naturally occur in reality by natural means
>>73827368
>Which is not an argument, that I fully accept.
unironically using "not an argument" in an molyneux thread. wtf are you doing bro?
also, stoics.. the looser philosophers of dying empires. but makes sense that they and their bullshit philosophy is popular now, since the west is dying too
>>73827475
how to get dmt, lsd on our territory bro??
I gave the caller a fair go.
But his arguments were just the usual thing these types of people would say. For example:
>trying to change the meaning of "what is real?" "What is reality?"
>what is objective / subjective?
>but but meanings of words change over time!
Check around 31:47 for a good reply
>>73827944
That's not an appeal to nature.
>>73805265
JIDF!
>>73810093
This desu
>>73828425
>Oh shit he's right, better deny it's what I accused him of, despite the fact he used that exact argument I used.
Either we both did or neither of us did, which is it?
>>73824475
Having reflexive reactions thanks to nerves doesn't equal to possessing consciousness.
If they wouldn't have had certain reactions to certain stimuli, organism would never have evolved to something more complicated than single cell organisms.
You haven't posted any source to your claim though, so I'm not even saying what you said is true.
>>73825067
So your argument is:
"Science so far couldn't gave a sure answer to the biggest questions left to answer, so let's throw it into the trash - I'd rather stick to religion because at least it gives answers (even if they're not rational)"
At least if by "how the universe works" you are referring to things like how did the universe start to exist or when and how will the universe ever end if it will or pseudo scientific things like what is the meaning of life?
Howewer if by your above quote you meant what rules does the universe abide, we know an awful lot about that. Physics. Chemistry. Ever heard of these?
Just because we don't know everything ever, doesn't mean science is wrong.
It is kind of the basis of science that we don't claim to know everything. Because we base our knowledge on rationality, on empirical proofs, on logic.
And not on superstitious, irrational, illogical things, like religion does.
>>73828022
>unironically using "not an argument" in an molyneux thread. wtf are you doing bro?
What is your exact point? You'd rather me spew illogical word-fecaly full of fallacies, just like you?
>>73828022
>also, stoics.. the looser philosophers of dying empires
Yeah they were pretty "loose" my brotha like shit dude 420 all daaaaay long like tha' Marky Mark guy he was a Kangz n sheeeit huh dude
You have made 31 posts so far.
Not a single one I saw contained any arguments.
>>73828022
you can get LSD pretty fine in Belgrade (you need to be experienced or have good connection not to get yourself the nBOME, almost identical effects and looks), and as for DMT i heard some rumors about it being a 100-150e/gram but never seen a guy who has it (know a few who tried it tho).
Your best alternative are shrooms. Easily found, about the same price as LSD, nice effects and better control of the potency/dose/trip
Low quantities = better mood, happiness, high quantities = better mood + hallucinations. I'd recommend taking it to mild hallucinations because it's the best of both worlds, + hallucinations mean that new serotonergic pathways are made which results in permanent overall greater happiness in life, better sleep, learning etc.
Just use it responsibly
>>73824758
>not "philosophy" at all in the scientific meaning of the word.
lol at "scientific meaning" of philosophy. Maybe look up "Buddhist philosophy" or "Philosophy in Buddhism" sometime. Anyway, metaphysics, ethics, and the nature of existence are domains both philosophy and religion, and those who study and interpret philosophy both historically and currently do so also through a religious lens.
tldr, you're completely wrong.
>>73828839
I've heard you can create DMT yourself and you can buy the bark online (legally i think) and the rest of the ingredients in stores.
the only reason I would use it are halucinations.
>>73828837
you surely like writing a lot
>>73829344
that is a pretty childish view tho, DMT should be done as a learning experience.
Yeah, the root bark of Mimosa hostilis (oc, pic related is the one in my backyard) can be used for making a tea with Ayahuasca, or synthesis. I wouldn't try those nigger-tier internet recipes, i love chemistry and real extraction with real and clean chemicals takes time (a month i think), equipment, expertise, and law support (so it's impossible by my standards).
>>73828022
>>73829344
>you surely like writing a lot
It is called having a discussion and making arguments.
You were the one who made this thread and kept on throwing shit like a chimpanzee. Take criticism like a grown up instead of sperging out like a tumblrina, this is not your safe space.
I know it must be strange because in your "muh drugs lol 420 brotha" dream world, these don't exist.
But maybe it's time to grow up and live in the adult world.
Also you couldn't refute and haven't even adressed any of my arguments, instead you kept on spewing more shit, and using ad hominem and the maymayarrow fallacy.
In the meantime though, you started a discussion aimed at buying illegal substances with a Serbian gypsy who shills his drugs on pol.
As they often say here:
Kill yourself, nigger.
>>73828651
That little bit of you copying me is not where the appeal was.
Just go back to your post, I'm really not sure if you are a master troll.
>unironically using illegal substances
Degenerates. You're all supporting the shitskin industry. Don't use your illegal drugs and then think you can complain when your nation is decaying and overrun with mudsharks.
OP, Stefan is fine. He's only an idiot when it comes to advice when people bring up whatever personal issue. I'm going to laugh my fucking ass off when his daughter enters the edgy cunt stage at 16.
Psychotropic drugs have been a part of the religious and philosophical experience of all human cultures going back further than recorded history, and insights from people who had used these drugs have been a part of both Eastern and Western philosophy (many of the Neoplatonists in the West, for example).
If OneFuckingDollar actually took some classes in philosophy he might know that and not be an ignorant dipshit from the beginning, dismissive of the very idea (regardless of his eventual conclusions). Fucking amateurs.
>>73830034
fuck, i wish I wasnt tree illiterate. those trees all look the same to me
>>73805013
Why does Molyneux look like a bobblehead.
someone please respond
>>73830383
>maaan im so insightful now that i caused myself brain damage to hallucinate!! people just like don't get it, MAAAN
kill yourself, mate.
>>73805013
He's a bald 50 year old man who spends most of his time feeling superior to the 18 year old college potheads he argues with. Of course there's something wrong with him...
>>73830593
This is true, but he does help open up some peoples world views, I believe he has a overall positive affect.
We need to gas Joe rogan before he lays more eggs
>>73830383
I hope next time he is on joe rogan, he lectures him how degenrate it is to use dmt
also, I am mostly mad he disconected the dude and dint let him promote his podcast. also, didnt include it into description below the "freedomain.net/donate" links
>>73830407
Would you support him getting SHOT?!
>>73819801
his interviews on the Alex Jones show are hilarious
2 loud as fuck dudes constantly trying to interrupt each other to make the same point
>>73830557
I've never used hallucinogens. I'm saying that no academic claiming a philosophy background would dismiss their historical relevance up through the 20th century.
And no academic claiming a science background would completely dismiss their relevance to the understanding of consciousness -- any temporary scrambling of the brain chemistry may yield interesting insights upon recovery if that's what you're after.
>>73805013
Wait, do people actually watch his caller vids?
Don't get me wrong I like his monologue's on how my continent is damaged beyond repair in more ways than there are niggers in Paris.
But his caller vids?
Him on the phone with some random idiot for over an hour?
Why?
>>73831453
I listen to them in the background.
>>73830822
Hey, don't get me wrong -- the caller was a bonehead and Joe Rogan is a douchebag, as are most people hyping DMT.
I'm saying don't dismiss psychedelics as a tool, but definitely attack anybody claiming miracles from them or that everyone should use them (or anything, such as from listening to hours of videos on anarcho-capitalist-objectivist rants).
