Thoughts on raising the minimum wage to $15?
>>73760898
Robots will come much faster than originally planned.
Huge inflation, $15 will have less buying power than $7.
Massive layoffs.
Huge numbers of store closings.
Overworked and understaffed.
>>73760898
Fuck you, OP.
The upper-middle class gets cucked from above AND below.
We need to replace all poor people with robots, and disenfranchise all rich people.
Specifically, kill everyone who makes $15/hr or less, and make investment income illegal.
TECHNO-REICH NOW!!!!!
>>73760898
$15 is too steep of a jump, especially considering that minimum wage is usually for entry level jobs. $9 or $10 seems like it'd be for the best in this situation.
>>73760898
>we are worth more
No, no you are not. If you were worth more then you would be making $15 an hour already.
cost of food, rent, gas and everything will rise
Minimum wage isn't meant to be a living wage. People need to take responsibility for their own shitty decisions, and not beg the government to raise the minimum wage. There's just no fuckin accountability in this country anymore.
>>73760898
Why $15 how about $100?
>>73762507
why not a million?
we could be like zimbabwe where literally everyone is a millionaire or better
>>73761311
This.
Disdainforplebsintensifies
>>73760898
I think a guaranteed basic income is a better solution to the poverty problem, 2bh.
>disabled NEETs don't have to jump through ridiculous hoops to prove they're actually disabled
>oldfags still have that Social-Security type of income
>lazyfags gonna lazy regardless, at least now they aren't a burden on their families
>people with a work ethic can still improve on their basic income by working jobs at whatever wage
>still have a safety net if they want to take career risks
>artfags have the economic security to follow their passion, even if they never manage to sell their work
Here's hoping the experiments in Ontario and Nigeria turn out well. GBI may be the best way forward through an age when automation continues to hollow out the working class.
I agree with it.
Due to automation/technology taking jobs, and a rising population, soon there won't be enough jobs available for people. This has already happened to a pretty far extent.
This will either result in mass chaos, riots, and homelessness, or a government welfare-state with a basic/guarenteed income ("free money") given to people. I see one of these two scenarios inevitable in the not to distant future.
A $15 minimum wage is a good band-aid until we get to that.
>>73760988
>Huge inflation, $15 will have less buying power than $7.
Inflation doesn't rise unless more fiat money is printed.
Raising the minimum wage won't cause one bit of inflation.
>>73761602
>Minimum wage isn't meant to be a living wage
"No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country."
- Franklin D. Roosevelt
>>73763461
Sorry, but GBI won't work. How many people do you think would stop working if they could?
Most people work for the sole purpose of getting a paycheck, and a large number of them would stop working if they could live comfortably without doing anything.
The few people who actually enjoy working are the ones who are competitive and enjoy beating other people at the same job.
Comfort is actually a frighting thing. Have you ever wanted to change anything while you were comfortable? Have you ever wanted to improve yourself or take a chance?
Nobody has, because we're fucking comfortable. Why bother taking a chance if we're comfortable with the status quo?
>>73763553
>Inflation doesn't rise unless more fiat money is printed.
Pfft. You're joking right? You can't possibly be that stupid.
>>73760898
>we are worth more
lol no
>>73763900
This isn't true, but raising the minimum wage won't cause inflation.
There are many jobs that do not deserve $15/hour. Regardless, the idea that 'it's a moral wage' fails when the way you enforce 'morality' is with the threat of fines and violence for noncompliance.
Regardless, 90% of teenage jobs would be removed by this.
>>73761311
>>73762940
Thread in a nutshell
http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate
>>73761217
>The upper-middle class gets cucked from above AND below.
It's just a sign that the whole middle class is shrinking as money and power keeps going up.
If this keeps up we will all be living in corporate states where human rights do not exists and things like food, water, air and health are privatized and people are basically slaves for the top corporations.
>>73764056
Who are you to decide what deserves $15/hr?
Also aren't low-income Americans the fattest demographic on the planet?
Somehow doubt they're "struggling to get by"
>>73764030
>raising the minimum wage won't cause inflation
>Suddenly, the minimum wage is $15
>Greatest Ally, please help me, I'm $10,000 behind on payroll this month because of the increase in the minimum wage
>Alright goyim, I'll give you a loan with a 20% interest rate
>Thank you merchant, you are my greatest ally
>This happens thousands of times across the country
>The money supply has increased by millions due to the increased number of loans
>Prices are raised on all types of goods
>People are now taking out more loans in the form of credit card debt
>The money supply increases even more
And I just realized who's behind this when I was typing that out.
How in the fuck would effectively doubling the minimum wage be in any way viable?
>>73764140
>Someone standing on a sidewalk moving a sign back and forth is worth $15 an hour
>Someone who could be replaced with a battery, electric motor and $10 worth of PVC pipe is worth $15 an hour.
>>73764140
I'm an observer of the economy.
A bagger at a grocery store. $15/hour, really?
Collecting golf balls at a park.
Working at a concession stand that's already stocked and organized.
By saying "15 or nothing," you eliminate a source of income for many kids/teens.
>>73760898
It's the wrong fucking way to raise wages. What they should do:
>deport illegals
>protectionist trade policy
>force companies to focus on the domestic market
>end the subsidies that favor mega corps and banks over the small guy
>cut taxes on businesses
The effects of this:
>jobs open up that before only illegals could do
>wages increase because the over saturated labor market is reduced
>more manufacturing and other industries come back or rise up
>small businesses can thrive and compete now since they don't have to compete with foreign cheap labor
Simple. Raising the minimum wage isn't the solution
>>73764356
It can be viable.
You just need to cut the number of minimum wage positions in half.
min wage should be more like $20 USD / hour
>>73764344
>The money supply has increased by millions due to the increased number of loans
The money supply is not increased by someone giving out loans, it is only increased by the government printing more money.
>>73764604
You know there's gobs more money in accounts than there is physical money, right? And more money can be placed into accounts with it ever being printed.
>>73764604
>The money supply is not increased by someone giving out loans, it is only increased by the government printing more money.
Aww. you're adorable.
Normally, I'm against using wikipedia, but the article on this is decent enough to get an idea about the money supply.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_creation
>>73764269
Its the fucking mentality 'Americans' have that's a shitty import bad European Enlightenment thought. Everybody thinks they're special and entitled to a 'living wage' cause these idiots have to raise 2-4 kids. Its also perpetual loserism, they want to work at Wal-mart but more money to buy more shit.
Also its cheaper to eat healthy then to buy McDonald's for dinner. I know people are blue-pilled because for one example my High school History teacher told the class she eats McDonald's or El Pollo Loco
Its possible to be something greater but people are content with being miserable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiSg6lwIItU
>>73764604
>nope
When the banks give out loans using fractional reserve lending, the supply of currency is increased.
>>73760898
Nope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJR0DYs70f8
>>73764445
>A bagger at a grocery store. $15/hour, really?
That's a shitty job, currently they're giving up a lot of time of their life for such a small amount of fiat money they can't even afford to live, and tax payers have to pick up the slack and pay them supplemental income, food stamps, etc. Because the corporation won't pay them enough to live.
People make thousands of dollars an hour for doing literally nothing.
>discussions about the economy
>deserves
Disregard said words and sterilize everyone in the speaker's immediate family.
>>73763829
>... and a large number of them would stop working if they could live comfortably without doing anything.
The GBI could be set to a level high enough to pay for the bare necessities, but not high enough to live "comfortably." Improving one's standard of living to match most people's idea of "comfort" would still requiring supplementing that income with actual work, whether by working for someone else or by going into business for themselves.
>Have you ever wanted to change anything while you were comfortable?
>Have you ever wanted to improve yourself or take a chance?
Have you ever wanted to make a career change but were too afraid to give up your dead-end job because it was the only thing keeping you afloat?
>>73764056
>>73764445
Kids and teenagers already have a full-time job: school.
>>73764094
I'm closer to Paula than Richard, grew up dirt poor with drug addict parents who never gave me any direction in life. I just got a new job which I start in a few weeks that pays much more than my current one, went from entry level 1st line IT to 2nd line with an almost 10k pay rise. I managed to get this job because instead of crying about how little I get paid I sought to improve my skills and it paid off.
You are only worth the amount your employer is willing to pay you. Git fucked or git gud.
>>73764809
Or they make the excuse that they don't have enough time.
lol. Bullshit. How long does it take to prepare a couple pounds/kilograms of chicken/veg/rice that could last the week?
>>73760898
The minimum wage is a phony issue to distract you from the real problem. Rampant money printing, exorbitant prices inflation, soaring cost of living. Thank you Fed.
>>73764702
>>73764785
>>73764819
The money that was used to give out the loan was part of the money supply before it was given out as a loan.
>>73764900
>Have you ever wanted to make a career change but were too afraid to give up your dead-end job because it was the only thing keeping you afloat?
>Quitting your job before you find another job
Wait, people do that? Who the fuck quits their job before finding something else?
>Improving one's standard of living to match most people's idea of "comfort"
You'd be amazed at what people can lower their standards to.
>>73760898
Do they generate more money than they are paid? Sure. Absolutely.
Do they flip burgers and or take orders, and tell a guy to flip burgers? Automation.
Even as things are right now, they would be saving money by replacing them with an ipad and an automatic burger flipper. They choose not to.
>>73765055
Stop thinking that money is physical currency. It isn't.
Money is nothing more than numbers in an accountant's ledger.
Everyone wants to talk about automation, basic income, job loss, and inflation, but they are missing the point of this:
The actual goal is to further consolidate businesses. Most small businesses will not be profitable if they have to pay their staff $15/hr. They already hire the minimum amount of staff they need to get by.
Raise minimum wage this drastically and all that will happen is massive amounts of small companies closing their doors to make even more room for Walmart and other giants in their respective market places.
>>73765055
it actually wasnt
it was invented when you took the loan
>>73765077
Under basic income people would still work because the amount of money they get would only be enough to live a very modest poor lifestyle. Many people would still work to get extra money to afford nicer things and a better life.
There is actually quite a lot of people who enjoy work, I know a few people who if they get a break off from work, they just sit at home bored, and say they want to go back to work.
Against it
>>73761284
>>73765207
Regulations are also designed to destroy small business. McDonald's can afford teams of lawyers, HR people, etc. The guy who runs Timmy's burgers can't.
>>73760898
Less jobs
>>73765175
I'm not thinking of money as solely physical notes.
>>73765239
>it was invented when you took the loan
So you're telling me if I go get a loan from Goldstein, he just magically creates the money, it was not from wealth he/they owned?
>>73765269
>a very modest poor lifestyle
A very modest poor lifestyle is not an uncomfortable lifestyle in the US. A modest poor lifestyle can get you a cell phone, TV, internet, food.
Also those same people also probably wish they were at home when they're at work.
>>73765005
Not that much at all but that's the myth people here have, people say "I don't have time for that". Students should be taught how to survive on little money and eat only what they make but then again that wouldn't great for the economy and the merchant, so they stay blue-pilled
>>73765145
There's a new McDonalds here in Manchester city centre that lets you order your food on one of the many touchscreen tablets littered around the place. I briefly had a fast food job when I left school, it should be something that all teenagers do to get some work experience but that won't be possible soon.
I see no problem with it. If nothing else, it will cut all the tax benefits businesses get for hiring people at shitty wages. And taxpayers will probably have to pay less into welfare and other assistance programs.
>>73765411
Yes.
It's fictional money created from future money that Goldstein will receive later.
>>73760898
It should be higher than it is nationally but 15 is too much. Raising the minimum wage will have 2 consequences. One is it will raise the price of everything a bit. Not as much as is being made but if you bump the wage up to say 10 dollars a 5% jump in baseless prices on every day items would not be unexpected. It would also stimulate the economy as the poorest people use their money the fastest and don't tend to invest much in slow long term things cause they don't have to.
Overall a small bunch in the wage would be for the better of all in the accept the very top.
The key is to do it slowly and not suddenly so the market can adjust to the new baseline.
>>73765077
>Who the fuck quits their job before finding something else?
People who have to go back to college or trade school to follow their new path.
>>73760898
In the US it would be better for the taxpayer. The reduction in hiring and employment would be negligible and almost entirely restricted to low paid jobs that arserape the US taxpayer anyway.
>>73765429
Just a minute mum existence with a tiny apartment, food utilities and health insurance costs a fortune. This is by design. The USA has the system rugged against the wage Slave.
>>73765055
>AGAIN what is fractional reserve lending
I used the term specifically to avoid this fucking pointless step of the argument.
>>73765464
I think waiting tables is a much better first job. Forces you to be social, and managing a floor is more taxing on the mind and body than you'd think. If it's busy at least.
>>73765417
>A modest poor lifestyle can get you a cell phone, TV, internet, food.
That's not really what I consider a modest poor lifestyle. I know many poor people who have no phone, internet, or TV service because they can't afford it, and the only reason they have food or a place to live is because of Section 8 housing and EBT.
Perhaps you're just a privileged sheltered normie and don't know what being poor means?
>>73765411
>So you're telling me if I go get a loan from Goldstein, he just magically creates the money, it was not from wealth he/they owned?
yes
literally
the debt that you owe them is turned into the money they give you
>>73760898
>Wants min wage $15
>Also believes immigrants should be freely allowed to enter the US
>>73765507
>The key is to do it slowly and not suddenly so the market can adjust to the new baseline.
Fortunately, this seems to be way New York and California are talking about implementing the new wages.
>>73764820
>currently they're giving up a lot of time of their life for such a small amount of fiat money they can't even afford to live
So you think every single job that exists needs to pay enough to support you without assistance from your family/government/whatever?
>People make thousands of dollars an hour for doing literally nothing.
Maybe after starting/inheriting a successful corporation that somebody worked hard and took risks to build, but that has literally nothing to do with what we were talking about, Berntard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyDU4X8GSmE&index=2&list=PLD94A93E0ED5C158F
memes as debt
>>73760898
It should be indexed on a county by county basis off of (average cost of living + average rent)/(52 weeks x 40 hours). People seem to have forgotten that the point of the minimum wage it to supply a basic subsistence point and not try to lump the costs of san francisco and barstow into something that helps neither.
>>73765577
I didn't mean fast food specifically but any kind of entry level job is fine
>>73765591
Jewish money magic.
That's all loans are. Our entire financial system runs on Jewish money magic.
>>73765557
>food utilities and health insurance costs a fortune.
>food
https://www.muscleandstrength.com/articles/build-muscle-50-dollar-budget
For $50 a week, you can eat 3k calories. call it a $100 a week for a family of 4 with 2 kids.
Unless your next excuse is "well some people are fucking retarded" then see pic related
>>73760898
>won't get $15/hour for another 5-6 years
>have to hope there isn't an economic disaster by then
>get $15/hour, they lose hours and benefits
>could get a two year degree and make $15/hour faster
I guess there is a reason they're working minimum wage
>>73765779
You don't live here what flag is that anyway. You have no idea of cost of living here.
>>73760898
thats stupid. the higher cost of living states want to force the lower cost of living states to addopt a $15 minimum wage so the jobs dont leave higher cost of living states
ny resorted to offering no taxes for 10 years to try to balance things out for companies and washington state had to reduce its newly raised minimum wage to keep tech jobs like running server farms
this can and has been done at a state level. how about lets let the market decide whos right. while dairy queen moves to other states and cattle farms move lets see where this leads us
>>73760898
it will fuck all classes and nobody will win.
>>73765626
Good. It is the only way to do it.
The long term effects of raising the minimum wage will be more income equality and everyone accept the super rich will benefit provided you don't shoot for the moon.
You raise it too much try to get wage parody you ruin the system cause there is no motivation get those high skilled job but the amount of income inequality right now does not make for a happy economy so to speak.
>>73765905
Here's an idea. Lower the cost of living by ending student loans. Stop printing money. Disband the federal reserve. No more subprime car loans.
>>73765869
I know low-income Americans are probably the fattest demographic on the planet
You gonna tell me that they're starving?
>>73765869
Where the fuck do you live, San Francisco? A big city? Might explain why its so hard to get by. Also this guy in this vid lives in NewYork. Still any excuse?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiSg6lwIItU
>>73765998
$1300 a month for health insurance for a family if five. With a ten thousand dollar deductible. What do you know about our costs of living, sand nigger.
>>73766102
What I know is that if you spawn a family of 5, and you're making minimum wage, then you only have yourself to blame.
Or does self responsibility and accountability only matter once you make a certain amount?
Lol. It's always someone else's fault, huh?
>>73764604
Dude, this is like... Econ 101. Don't talk to me or my economy's loan laws ever again.
>>73765869
Move out of San Francisco you fucking cuck.
>>73760898
>We are worth more
Then find a better job
>>73766102
>Paying for a deductible
>Not paying for a barebones MEC plan and then just paying the cash price if you actually need healthcare.
The cash price is cheaper than what you would pay out of pocket with insurance.
I think there needs to be more discussion regarding guaranteed basic income. That, in my opinion, is the way to lift the most vulnerable out of poverty. Expecting businesses to pay their workers $15/hr for trivial work is going to force small ones to close and big ones to just not hire workers to do menial tasks and instead hand those tasks over to robots, exacerbating the under-employment problem. If we got rid of all these poorly managed social programs and used the money saved to provide communities with poverty problems a minimum earnings floor, I think we'd see a huge improvement in the general well-being of North Americans.
>>73765585
>They have food and a place to live.
So they're better off than the vast majority of the world's populace? Sounds pretty comfy to me
>>73765513
Oh right, I forgot that counts as a career change.
In that case, I gave up my dead end job and went back to school because my overall situation was getting very uncomfortable.
>>73765649
People who can't afford to live in Frisco should leave Frisco.
>>73760898
Outdated farm equipment now outdated cashier equipment.
>>73760898
We're already in line with inflation vs 50s minimum wage. Even the highest water mark during the unsustainable boomer times would only put us at $10/hr and helped bankrupt the future.
So if $10/hr in the past was an unsustainable and unmitigated disaster, what do you think $15/hr is going to do?
$15 is too high for bumfuck Arkansas, but too low for Frisco.
Really is a case-by-case thing and while the fed min wage should increase a little, states/counties/cities should handle their own extensions of minimum wage, otherwise small business owners in bumfuck Arkansas are going to eat shit and die.
>>73766204
I meant two parents and three kids. Hard to aford even on $65000 a year.
