this is not a dubs thread. give me a good response cause i wanna shit on her hard
Notice how she totally skips over the 40s and 50s when our society was nearly perfect. All she can say about the 40s is the atom bombs, and that was a fucking world war.
>>73725020
>muh racism
>>73724900
1866-1913
This is when America was great
in before
>muh robber barons
>muh Victorian culture is bad
>>73724900
Everything after the brittish sentence describes best America.
The when women and minorities couldn't vote one
That's the best
>>73725020
Two nukes is quite enough for people to call you a piece of shit nigger bastard and nigger again anon
>>73725281
1950-1980 as well desu
>>73725281
So in other words the progressive refugees from Trump's dictatorship will form a colony on Mars?
>>73724900
>we
>talks about the government
>>73724900
ooh ooh, I know the answer. when we dropped two atomic bombs on japan.
>not a dubs thread
>gets dubs
Tough luck pal
>>73725840
kek
>>73726061
I hate you guys but man I kekd
this is now a dubs thread
>>73724900
America was great when freedom, strength, morality, and logic were cherised values, instead of being negative traits according to modern Liberalism.
>>73724900
80s and 90s.
When your economy was killing it, race relations were actually improving, and social movements had informed, capable leaders.
>>73726172
Rolling :DDD
>>73726172
trying my best
>>73725020
>nearly perfect
yes and the ussr propaganda said the exact same thing about their society
society has never been "nearly perfect" its just retards with rose colored glasses
>>73724900
checked
>>73724900
The one when women and minorities couldn't vote.
>>73724900
If they hate this country so much, why don't they just leave? They're always the first ones to threaten to move to Canada.
>>73726288
lmao
>>73726260
just read a pretty decent article on exactly this
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/435195/donald-trump-won-because-many-republicans-arent-conservative
>>73725281
This.
>>73726288
wew lad
>>73726343
Have you ever actually talked to an older person before?
Asked them about the cost of living then? Gas prices? Job availability? Crime rates? Fucking anything?
It wasn't "nearly perfect," sure. It's a lot better than anything we've had since though.
>>73724900
Vietnam was false pretenses?
1946-1965 best answer
Right after WW2 where we BLEW EVERYONE THE FUCK OUT, McArthur absolutely BTFO korea and China, and before shit got real with Vietnam and the goddamn hippies
>>73725866
Two nukes wasn't enough. Do you know what the Japanese were doing to people? They killed more than the nazis and in immensely more fucked up ways. Look at the rape of nanking and unit 731. That coupled with the fact that they would NOT surrender meant we could either do a land invasion and expended hundreds of thousands of lives on both sides, or drop two nukes and kill a massively smaller number while also intimidating our newly apparent rival the russians.
>>73725281
Trump isn't going to take us back to the Gilded Age. That would mean dismantling entitlements an shit.
>>73726343
What aspects of 50s society were worse? I honestly can't name one. We have culturally degraded. That's just objective. I'm sorry, but if you want to pull the nostalgia card you also have to actually point out how we've improved in a way that would be compromised by returning to a 50s-esque society.
>>73724900
>When we burnt women at the stake because we thought they were witches
This bitch serious?
The 50's through to the 80's we're the pinnacle of American culture/s.
Wild West was pretty sweet too.
All of it
>>73727146
Oh don't be so cruel, anon. She's just another indoctrinated sock puppet who spent their entire world history class learning about how shit America is and the list of things we did wrong. There is nothing in the world more absurdly biased against America than the modern history textbook.
The only thing our education system can teach kids is to be ashamed of their country.
>>73724900
"Make America Great Again" not because the past was great, but because the present and future are so much worse than it.
>>73724900
>Freed slaves
Republican
>Atom bombs
Democrat
>Vietnam
Democrat, who ran against the based Republican that Hilary supported
>>73727178
The wild west didn't really exist though. The crime/murder rate was actually really low, less than what it is today in most of the rest of the country.
It seems like everyone looked at 8 or so famous robbers and made a whole history about it.
>>73724900
The atomic bombs saved thousand of American lives you dumb nigger
>>73724900
/pol/ wont agree but this is how yoh shut her down.
>Muh Colony
When you liberated yourselves from the British
>Muh Witches
Barely happened.
>Muh Slavery
When you went to war to liberate the slaves
>Muh Votes
When you gave them sufferage
>Muh Holocaust
When you liberated Europe (Also America had joined by the time it Started)
>Muh Bombs
When you ended the War that cost 60 Million lives.
>Muh Vietnam
Lol at false pretenses. Vietnam fell to communism, dipshit.
>Muh Iraq
Liberated Iraq from Saddam. Though this is probably the weakest "great" period
Also 1866-1929 and 1945-1963 were the greatest periods though, you can further counter with all the shit you accomplished during those periods.
>>73724900
Fuck this bitch you yanks walked on the moon.
>>73725974
How will they do that when there is t anyone to leech off of there?
>>73727144
We are seriously the 1950s' dystopian nightmare vision of the future.
>>73728007
Bro-Tier Britan.
>>73728007
THE FUCKING MOON
>>73726942
They would have surrendered if allowed to keep their emperor and likely would have surrendered within a week of the first bomb. The second one was completely uncalled for.
>>73724900
When people weren't brainwashed into self-hating pieces of whiny little shits like her.
>>73728428
Arguing about "the bomb" is futile, because all sides of WW2 codified strategic bombing as legitimate. What difference is one big bomb compared to 20,000 regular bombs? Are you mad they made bombing more efficient?
>>73728592
Im not arguing about the first one, only the second one.
>>73727178
>The 50's through to the 80's we're the pinnacle of American culture
lew wad
>>73728428
>I base my entire understanding of history on what my aging, hippy history teacher with a shitty stubble goatee told me
Try looking into topics yourself for once. Turns out things are never as simple as your liberal history teacher force fed you.
>>73728691
What about all the other strategic bombing taking place after the first bomb but before the 2nd?
You're an idiot who's simply captivated by the spectacle of a mushroom cloud, nothing more.
>>73728428
That's like saying Germany would have surrendered if they got to keep Hitler. That wasn't going to happen.
>>73727649
I refuse to believe this
I demand a source
>>73724900
>when we dropped two atomic bombs on japan
can't speak for anyone else, but that's about the period in America's history I'd like to go back to.
No need to nuke Japan though, keep making those cute girl cartoons you guys.
>>73728717
50's were a definite high point culture wise
>>73724900
below reproach, 2bh
checked those doubles tho
>>73728796
Im saying Japan would have surrendered regardless of the second bomb and within a similar time frame too.
>>73724900
>brit colony unfair taxes
Basically spawned the best nation in history. Its about to happen again once people realize the unfair taxation and such America is facing.
>burnt women at the stake
Oh so crowd-think useful idiots of the past? Cancer then cancer now. Reminds me of a certain ideology, only now they metaphorically burn men and not women.
>slavery
Please. America has a light record on slavery. If you want slavery look to the other points in history when it was much much worse. And you are looking at the nation that basically made it suicide to practice slavery. If anything, slavery in america should be seen as the final blow against slavery we will never see again. And when are people going to stop persecuting the entire nation based on the actions of less than 3% of the population at the time?
>women and minorities couldnt vote
Women held different status back then than they do today. Same with minorities. We know how difficult it is to retract advances in things like this. It wont happen even if it were desired.
>two atomic bombs on japan
Probably saved more lives than it took. Saved lots of money to repair Europe and America and Japan. Time and energy not wasted on more years of war. The second bomb was probably a mistake though. And now look at Japan.
>vietnam
That was russian infiltration into America to make its citizens against the war. Again, useful crowd-think idiots who wouldnt let their military practice a quick clean sweep. We left with nothing and let Vietnam slowly come to terms that America was right. Now its a Marxist one-party state, top kek.
>iraq
The iraq war is a democrat party war and you know it. Nice and slow with minimal force. Bleed them then let them recover to prolong the war, it reminds me of a sadistic torturer. Send only like 40 military personnel at a time and 'advisors' to make more enemies for us once the current power falls.
>what kind america return to
One where america leads the world in the right direction.
>>73728946
That's 20/20 hindsight and you know it.
>>73728804
No, it's not the same because it's historical fact. Japan was willing to surrender in May 1945 if it could keep it's emperor, period. Hitler never offered to surrender.
>>73724900
"Before 9/11" is the response to give to prove your credibility
>>73726942
>That coupled with the fact that they would NOT surrender
Actually they sent multiple surrender agreements and we refused them.
Dropping the bombs was little more than a sick sadistic feild test and a show of force to the Soviets.
The only positive argument I can see is an unfalsifiable claim that seeing the horror of these bombs actually used gave second thought throughout the cold war to their use again preventing nuclear war.
>>73725866
The firebombings killed much more people
>>73729129
Not only is it hindsight, the idea that nukes are an unspeakable horror that must be sealed and that seal must never be broken is an idea that's been imprinted upon all of us by decades of cold war and people generally being afraid of nuclear conflict.
During WWII, it was just a cool bomb that we had just invented. And if you look at the nuclear bomb in the context of the entire war, the bombings in Hiroshima and Nagisaki were not all that more severe than any of the other bombing campaigns during the war, there were bombing campaigns of cities in both theaters that resulted in substantially more damage and loss of life than either of the nukes. Nuclear weapons were shocking because of the level of devastation conveyed in a single bomb, but there's really not a lot of difference between a city flattened by a nuke and a city flattened by carpet bombing.
"muh nukes" is mostly a meme pushed by people who want to make you feel guilty over history and people who are not educated enough on WWII to understand just how costly and brutal of a war it was.
>>73724900
The time when we prevented the USSR from annexing all of Europe. Even if it was in our best self interest to do so, western Europe benefited from it. They'd all be Romania tier shitholes with millions of drunken Turkic and Russian diaspora right now if it wasn't for us.
>>73729129
Japan was talking about surrender as early as May. The second bomb didn't add any reasons to surrender that the first didn't. The targets were both non-strategic. Tokyo was already firebombed to hell. We didn't have many big targets left (we had a very big one but if we bombed it, Japan would never forgive us). Japan was already done by the time the second bomb was dropped.
>>73728830
>drop nukes on Sweden, Germany, whatever other countries are infested with sand people
>they all become cultural factories
>>73729696
The second nuke showed that there are more than one.
>>73729927
>wall 2 of 50
>>73729927
We could have simply threaten to do the same to Kyoto and gotten the same message across.
>>73724900
I guess since no period in history was absolutely perfect, our country and all of us(particularly white people) suck forever and we should never try to fix things because we're inevitably doing something wrong right now.
She's making a logical fallacy. I think people refer to it as the Nirvana fallacy where you try to argue that since there is no perfect course of action, taking no action is preferable.
But I guess in short, she's a fucking self hating cunt. Although she probably doesn't view herself as "part of the problem" just like every other white person with savior delusions.
>>73724900
>when we defeated the Nazis :^)
She can't refute it or she's an anti semite
>>73729342
>>73729455
Their agreements were not acceptable, saying you'll surrender if you aren't going to lose jack shit is hardly surrender.
>>73729696
>The targets were both non-strategic.
Hiroshima was a staging area for troops, had a military port, had a great deal of military industry, and had 40,000 troops stationed there.
The Japanese at the time were wondering why we hadn't already bombed them to hell, and the government had been evacuating people for quite some time prior to the bombing because they knew it would eventually become a target.
I don't know as much about Nagasaki, but I do know it was a shipyard and that military ships were built there.
They were both strategic targets.
>>73730129
Too bad we actually did threaten them and they still refused to surrender. Oops. Then we threatened them with a third bomb and a large faction of the Japanese high command still wanted to keep fighting. The Emperor's radio address is probably the only reason no generals betrayed him to keep fighting.
>>73724900
When people ask this question I say what Trump does, he wants to make america better than ever before.
>>73724900
>a colony with unfair taxes
back then taxes were way under 5%. and it caused a revolution
if only they knew
>>73729696
You're clearly not well-read on the atomic bombings. Japan was given the opportunity to surrender after the first bomb, and they did not respond. Emperor Hirohito was still unsure of how to move forward, and a lot of the military tried to argue that the first nuke was a one-time attempt to ruin Japanese morale at home.
If the Japanese didn't wholeheartedly accept unconditional surrender after witnessing our might, the rightists would have been empowered and the mutual security treaty could have never happened in Japan. They'd be a shitsink country compared to where they are today.
Mind you, native Japanese are often less emphatic about the atomic bombings than most Westerners, because Westerners lose any sense of context when they see nukes go off that kill so many thousands of people.
The Tokyo fire bombings killed more people than one of those nukes, but those are hardly remembered. Similarly, a push into Japan would have brought war to the civilian population. The fucking military was giving housewives sticks to carve into spears for fighting the Americans pushing into Honshu. FFS
Now, I firmly believe part of the reason the nukes went off was to test how they work on civilian targets. However, that doesn't change the fact that they were probably for the better, and that too many of us like to play hero for the Japanese people when they can speak on their own behalf.
>>73730229
>I never looked at the history
The only thing they wanted was to keep the Emperor as a powerless figure head and we could do whatever we wanted
Which we gave them anyway.
Like I said dropping the bombs was a show of force to the Soviets and a sadistic feild test nothing more.
>>73724900
If feeding your ego over the internet is that important to you then you are just as bad as you perceive her to be.
Also, if you aren't smart enough to "blow her the fuck out" using your own skills and thinking, perhaps you should seek education over self glorification.
>>73730129
>>73730565 here. Jesus Christ. The Americans actually did have plans to destroy Kyoto, but it was deemed too culturally valuable to strike. Again, stop trying to rectify history when the situation was a lot more complicated than your weeb ass wants it to be.
>>73724900
When we had slavery and when women couldn't vote were objectively the best times.
>>73730679
>Guys check out my opinion that I'm stating like historical fact. A dubious opinion at that. I also don't know how to spell field and will claim it was a typo. Since this is /pol/ and we don't care about fact checking, my shitty dubious opinion will probably be taken seriously by other dumb fucks.
>>73726266
Underrated post.
>>73730565
No
There is the narrative and then there is what happened.
You're repeating highschool level narrative as if it was history.
http://www.amazon.com/Decision-Use-Atomic-Bomb/dp/067976285X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239874025&sr=1-3
Here you go:
Classic liberal cherry picking. You wouldn't like if ilearned the worst thing you have done in your life, maybe as a teenager (you knkw what you did) and proclaimed that you are a terrible person, an asshole, because you did that thing... and you were never a good person and can never be a good person because of that thing.
Dont apply the same criteria to Amierica.
Tl;dr Either you are a terrible person and America was never great or you are maybe an ok person and your argument is stupid
>>73730903
>Guys check out my opinion that I'm stating like historical fact. A dubious opinion at that.
Actually it is historical fact.
If you actually studied history you would know this
http://www.fpp.co.uk/History/Churchill/Japan_surrender_attempts/MS.html
>>73730963
>guys the history books are wrong, it's all a narrative. Me, the real redpill truth seeing fedora tipper, knows better than you blind sheeple. Just check out this one fucking book that agrees with me and is more valid than official documentation!
Sometimes I really hate this fucking board. I feel like you guys just value arguing over fact checking anything. Like if you just bullshit your way through a conversation enough, that should trump documentation.
>>73730963
The guys talking back in may about Surrender were ostracized by the military and considered traitorous. The biggest figure visited D.C. on Teddy's friendship trip and saw how advanced American tech was, but the others considered him overcautious.
The people pushing for surrender weren't taken seriously among the military.
If it were so clear-cut, as you like to put it by just throwing an amazon book link at me, you would be able to show how the fuck Japan was actually making moves to surrender. They would not have unconditionally surrendered, especially to the tone of removing militaristic elements to the government during Occupation, had they doubted American willingness to use total force.
>>73727144
Only thing I can name is the hindsight of poor waste management(not about global warming bs but the semi-infected water even in the Western world).
>>73731163
>Documents on the International Campaign for Real History
>David John Cawdell Irving is an English Holocaust denier and author who has written on the military and political history of World War II, with a focus on Nazi Germany.
>Everything is a lie dude, I know what happened for REALZ. Just check out this dubious source that backs up my claim. Wake up sheeple.
Why are you guys so fucking stupid that you just believe dubious shit like this? You shouldn't be stupid enough to fall into halfass shitty traps like this, but you do constantly. You believe these highly dubious underground sources and just claim they're historical fact when they're coming from people that make a living out of making shit up trying to frame historical events in a way that backs up their feelings.
You did the equivalent of link me to a website for afrocentrism. That's how stupid it is.
>>73730963
Even as the Emperor begged his generals to surrender with him and the war was clearly lost and millions were dying for no reason because it was going on, generals STILL wanted to fight. In fact, they felt so betrayed by the surrender order that many committed sepuku rather than walk in shame to surrender with their Emperor.
Many Japanese would rather die screaming with their organs hanging out just to be "honorable" than surrender. If we failed to break the Japanese with firebombings before the nukes, why do you think we ever could have? If we couldn't beat them into submission, we would have had to invade and fight an Okinawa across the whole length of Japan.
>>73725281
>rampant anti-union sentiment and regional sectarianism
>horrific corruption and mishandled governance leading to the rise of the redshirts during reconstruction
>factory conditions the worst the world has ever seen
>starvation and poverty abounds
>muh robber barons
>not even a great power yet
sure, the greatest period
>>73731668
>pulling the "Holocaust denier" card
>on /pol/
The first hand documents are linked in the article mongoloid.
Irving is also infamous for forcing the Canadian government to no longer allow evidence be admissible in court for Holocaust "denial" cases because they couldn't argue against it
>>73724900
meh..i'm half asleep and really drunk. This is pretty generic so someone please build/edit this pasta....
What kind of America do you foresee ..blah blahh...
1. One where there was no ISIS.
2. WTC Twin Towers were not a fucking water fountain.
3. Muslims brothers and sisters were asking for help and rightfully protected by the US in the Balkans because they are humans.
4. Toilets were not a matter of legislation. People knew how to get along.
5. People didn't die of cancer and heart attacks in their 40s.
6. People wanted to come to USA because it was the land of the free and not a land of porous bordered fat infidels.
7. When America helped save the world from Nazism so people like you could live and breathe free air.
8. When that air was not full of polluted poison. It was 'full of life" which is a figure of speech. Just like MAGA is a figure of speech if you're educated.
9. When American education was the best in the world and knew better than to appropriate historical facts to make stupid arguments over nothing.
10. When people had a thicker skin towards 'words' of people like Trump and honored free speech and the 2nd amendment just like we have honored yours, my angry friend.
11. When people were not cowards and tolerant and respected their enemies and called them by their rightful names like unlike you've done(his name is Mr.Trump. Learn it. You might have to use it a lot in the future when a cop pulls you over and asks you what day it is and who's the president? etc)
Now, do you want to know why America was great back then? because you weren't born or if born then were still crawling up to the higher end of the IQ spectrum. Shame you failed.... pig fuck.
TLDR: Fuck tldr. Learn to read.
>>73726625
whats the source of this gif??
>>73732109
Glorious.
>>73731725
I read it. According to the dubious site, Hirohito said, "Mmmh, yes, we should have no more bloodshed..." in a message. Unconditional surrender wasn't taken up, but he continued by saying, "It deeply troubles the Emperor that bloodshed is occuring."
The fucking military did't want surrender, and the few who did earlier in the war were ostracized. You're fighting for a position here that doesn't make sense against the facts. Yes, the nukes were 'bad.' Yes, a ground war on the fucking mainland would have been worse -- whole communities in OKINAWA, the most remote cultural node you could find, committed mass suicides ( / were forced to, depending on the sources) as they were killed instead of losing to the Americans. It was actually in their plans to arm housewives with sticks. How can you not grasp this?
Look, you're concerned about what the U.S. did to Japanese civilians in the war. I get it, and agree that all such things should be carefully considered. However, if you're going to refuse to look at alternatives, and the broader picture of what Japan became as a result of those devastating bombs, then you're only concerned with pushing a 'narrative' of your own.
Cut the an hero shitspewing, sperglord
>>73724900
when?
when people like you knew your place, smart ass
>>73732098
>pulling the "Holocaust denier" card
Yeah, not everyone on this board is dumb enough to think that Holocaust denial is credible. Using a holocaust denier as a source is about the same credibility-wise as linking me to a website on Afrocentrism. Same level of idiocy and leaps in logic and just flatout making shit up.
>Irving is also infamous for forcing the Canadian government to no longer allow evidence be admissible in court for Holocaust "denial" cases because they couldn't argue against it
Yes, I'm sure that's why and you totally aren't making shit up to make him seem like a poor freedom fighter instead of the idiot that he is.
>>73732307
>According to the dubious site,
So you didn't read the first hand documentation after asking for first hand documentation then
The fact is that the Japanese were willing to surrender under the sole condition that the Emperor kept his throne as a figurehead.
Which we denied for "unconditional surrender"
>>73724900
Terrible format for a multiple choice question...
A.
B.
Etc...
Dumb bitch.
>>73732109
Based as fuck
>>73725281
>Gilded Age was a good thing.
Nigga do you know how to history?
>>73732606
>http://www.fpp.co.uk/History/Churchill/Japan_surrender_attempts/MS.html
NOWHERE IN YOUR SOURCE DOES IT SAY THAT. The Japanese said NOTHING about wanting to keep the Emperor as a figurehead. WHERE in your source does it say this?! You must be absolutely delusional if you think your source shows that.
And way to ignore everything else I said about context being important to understanding how we should view the nuclear bombings.
The Emperor already was a figurehead to a large degree; it's actually a small miracle that the military didn't successfully overthrow him when he decided to surrender for Japan, because it was the military and the military alone that had propped up and kept the Emperor in a position of apparent relevance.
>>73732458
>Yeah, not everyone on this board is dumb enough to think that Holocaust denial is credible
Again he was infamous for forcing Canada to no longer accept evidence as admissible in court because they couldn't argue against his evidence.
He isn't the "lol no Jews died" retards he was a serious historian that disputed the narrative of gas chambers and systematic genocide.
Which the first hand documentation he provided showed which is why Canada responded by making such evidence not admissible in court.
Germany is the same way as is several other European nations.
It is illegal to bring evidence to court in these nations on this subject.
The official number itself has been silently revised to more than half of the "mug six gorillian" poised by the narrative by so called mainstream Holocaust historians.
> Yes, I'm sure that's why and you totally aren't making shit up to make him seem like a poor freedom fighter instead of the idiot that he is.
No it is easily looked up.
>>73730733
Isn't that what he is coming here for? I guess you can question his methods, because he is asking for a narrative in support of an preconceived argument instead of seeking one out from a neutral source, but neutral sources are hard to find these days.
>>73732109
>You might have to use it a lot in the future when a cop pulls you over and asks you what day it is and who's the president?
TOP KEK
>>73724900
Before globalism and mass immigration killed job prospects for the no and low skilled people.
>>73724900
When we burnt bitches for witchcraft, and slavery please.
>>73726266
race relations really were improving but that couldnt happen. so they started calling everything racist and started saying that things werent improving fast enough and now whites are really starting to turn on blacks and blacks are going to actually get the reality theyve been imagining for the past 50 years.
Then they'll say 'see we were right the whole time"
dumb niggers were never grateful for everything we have them the past 5 decades so now we're gonna take it away
>>73733065
>Again he was infamous for forcing Canada to no longer accept evidence as admissible in court because they couldn't argue against his evidence.
According to you. Your opinion isn't holding much weight at this point, and I'm too lazy to look up anything about this twat. I'm willing to bet quite a bit of money that the reason they barred him from Canadian court wasn't because he was just too enlightened and smart and nobody could refute his amazing genius, because that sounds very, very unlikely.
>He isn't the "lol no Jews died" retards he was a serious historian that disputed the narrative of gas chambers and systematic genocide.
He's not immune to being a retard just because he was formerly a semi respectable historian.
>No it is easily looked up.
Chances are you would deny every single thing I looked up about him that showed his inconsistent nature and highly dubious claims as just being "part of the narrative" or some MSM smear or some bullshit. You'll just make up excuses why it doesn't count.
I've already wasted far too much time typing to someone like you, so this is my last (You) I can give you. Your kind will automatically deny any source to the contrary of your preconceived conslusions, regardless of its validity, and accept sources that agree with you regardless of how unreliable they are. We have nothing to discuss. You are going to remain in your ignorant prison for life until you decide to grow up and accept how adults approach information skeptically.
>>73727497
>faggot
Faggot
>faggot
Faggot
>faggot
Faggot
>>73725866
>that flag
>calling other people nigs
