Was democracy a mistake?
Nah, just America.
>tfw no anarchy
I don't know. I've never experience democracy.
But tossing out the rule of law was a mistake.
>>73653977
shouldn't you be firefighting right now?
>>73654053
I don't think anarchy is actually possible.
>>73653895
Democracy is a fraudulent system. It is designed to make people think they have choice when the vast majority of the time the candidates are bought and paid for by Jews or other special interests with lots and lots of shekels. Democracy is a joke. The founding fathers sought to circumvent much of this democratic nonsense by creating a Republic. Those efforts have long since failed. Jews have subverted almost every major political institution in the country and replaced the Republic with a Democracy.
>>73654876
I think you are right except the last line
>replaced the Republic with a Democracy.
It seems to me that it's become an oligarchy instead.
>>73653895
Of course it was. People aren't equal and giving the retarded masses any political power is national suicide. Even the founders of America didn't do that. But what they did was still bad enough.
>>73653895
>>73654067
>>73654876
>>73655210
we fugged up
>>73655827
I think you are right lad. Still, "muh democracy" is a huge common value here in USA. Should this be changed?
>hurr lets choose our leaders through a popularity contest
Naw man it's totally smart.
>>73653895
America isn't a democracy, I struggle to name any actual democracies (probably because they're not America and therefore completely irrelevant)
>>73654169
He can't. If he fights the fire, it wins.
>>73653895
All men are created equal does sound suspiciously like everyone gets a trophy
>>73656199
We are a republic. Our congress is a democracy tho.
>>73653895
Yes.
Democracy created SJWs.
>>73656143
It can't be changed in any positive way. There are three dominant philosophies in America, which have become and are becoming more every day global phenomena: Capitalism, Jewish Religion and Democracy (any form). And they all promote the exact same thing: sociopaths rising to the top and soaking up all power without any control measures, while giving the illusion of choice. We're already losing democracy, but it's being replaced by plutocracy/corporatocracy.
>>73656346
That would be christianity.
>Inb4 butthurt christians try to claim it's not when it totally is
>>73653895
No, but giving the vote to anyone besides land owners was. If you don't own a piece of the land, you shouldn't get a say. And if you are on welfare, you certainy shouldn't be allowed to vote because that's a conflict of interests.
>>73656457
then why are all the sjw's leftist atheists?
>>73656505
I like that that sounds better.
>>73653895
The main mistake was to think and to limit democracy as the rule of law and elections.
Democracy should be a conceptual tool implemented in as much parts of the society as possible (obviously you can't extend it everywhere).
GDH Cole wrote some interesting paths of reflexion with its guild's socialism (that should be tempered as his understanding of the relations between memberships, groups and actors is quite vague).
>>73653895
No, just universal suffrage. Only men of means should ge able to vote.
Women are too narcissistic and neurotic to have a say in how a country is run. Poor men on the other hand have nothing to lose by voting for Gib me dats.
>>73656625
Because culture changes over time *gasp*. Why are skinheads all white trash now when it started as a nigger thing?
Free will was a mistake.
>>73654410
> I don't think anarchy is actually possible.
anarchy is not just possible, it's as common as dogshit
every time the dindus riot and turn a city into a war zone, thats anarchy
every place where the "govt" is defined by "warlords" and "local militias", that's anarchy
every time you hear about a sandnigger deathsquad raiding a refugee camp and slaughtering the refugees, thats anarchy
anarchy is NOT some utopian daydream.
that shit only exists in the fevered imaginations of lefty nitwits when they cry about their special snowflake "anarcho-___________ism" that invariably winds up being indistinguishable from any of the myriad sub-flavours of marxism.
>>73653977
America is a Constitutional Republic. Representatives rule in place of the people.
>>73656752
you spelt wrong illusion* m8
>>73656505
I've put some thought into this, and I'm hung up on how the elite would try to prevent land ownership/any other voting requirement to disenfranchise people.
For example, let's say you can vote unless your net tax contributions past age 25 are positive. That is to say that you've put in (via taxes paid) more than you've taken out (via welfare) during your adult life.
Do you think there would be serious efforts to lower taxes on the middle and lower class so as to disenfranchise them completely? The richest 1% already pay 70% of all federal taxes. Would it behoove them to pay an even larger percentage in order to disenfranchise more people so that they would essentially have complete control?
Just playing devil's advocate here. I agree with your position in principle, but the practice could get dicey.
>>73656836
You are just describing people defying the rule of the government. That doesn't mean that the government doesn't exist.
>>73656836
agreeing with this post
even Proudhon's definition of anarchism is more close of a guild socialism than the wanker's vision of anarchism you can hear on tv-web-BS medias
>>73653895
Yes it is
Read this as to why:
>Democracy: The God That Failed
>Hans-Hermann Hoppe
http://www.riosmauricio.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Hoppe_Democracy_The_God_That_Failed.pdf
Wiki summary:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy:_The_God_That_Failed
>>73656625
Think of athiesm as... the bloodbank bus in highschool.
>5% donated because they genuinely wanted to help people.
i.e. Dawkins
>95% donated because they could skip class
i.e. Trigglypuff
>>73656334
> we are a republic
good job
> Our congress is a democracy tho
hol up there nigga!
congress is NOT a democracy.
the house is popularly elected, by district by district, though what could be called "democracy" but they are REPRESENTATIVES, hence part of a republican form
the senate is "democratically elected" state by state (huge mistake of course) but are still representatives, and thus REPUBLICAN.
the only "democracy" to be found in the US is the state and local plebiscite (commonly called "initiatives")
elected representatives are the core of the Republican Form, and are NOT democracy.
democracy sucks generally, and often winds up fucking over the demos because they are pretty damned stupid.
>>73656505
But how do you get the control of a piece of land (legacy, force[that can be understood as economic power], …)? That's an important ideological point and was used by most maoists guerillas in southern america and asia to justify warcrimes and coup.
Moreover today, with the numeric globalization, attacking the right to vote would pose a serious threat on the social peace
>>73657168
I agree with you. I wish that atheists would extend that consideration to Christians. (That 95% are retards and don't represent the belief intellectually)
>>73657046
If you liked this book I would suggest you this one : Emmanuel Todd: "The Causes of Progress: Culture, Authority, and Change (Family Sexuality and Social Relations in Past Times)"
>>73656346
LEFTISM created SJW's
the butthurt tumblrina professional victim class is the product of marxian social sabotage, in an attempt to undermine capitalism and the republic by exploiting the weaknesses of capitalism and the republic.
jews didnt create this shit, "democracy" didnt create this shit, and christianity didnt create this shit, MARXISM created those sacks of dicktips, and the marxists did it by design.
The problem with democracy in a nutshell is, in a system where nobody is policing the candidates for corruption, are the people smart enough to vote to save themselves?
The fact that there's even a question about Trump winning the election or not says a lot about that. The only guy that wants to rebuild the country, and it's an actual controversy.
Another fun fact: the election in London was tampered with. Voter fraud in the Muslim majority areas.
>>73657218
yeah congress is a component of our republic, but I meant that it functions as a democracy within itself. It's memebers vote as a democracy. We could maybe improve by having them elect representatives.
I once noted, in a university paper, that the USA was a republic.
My professor, who had a Ph.D in English, crossed that out and wrote "This is wrong, the USA is a DEMOCRACY."
I was literally dumbfounded that someone could get a fucking Ph.D and still think that. Fucking women.
>>73657443
> The fact that there's even a question about Trump winning the election or not says a lot about that. The only guy that wants to rebuild the country, and it's an actual controversy.
I'm quite neutral about Trump's election as I'm not an US citizen. But you can't say that the controversy is rather about his ability to get elected than about his programme.
> the election in London was tampered with. Voter fraud in the Muslim majority areas.
Will there be a commission?
>>73657549
lmao did you talk to her about it?
>>73656654
> democracy R Gud! cuz muh marxist navel gazer sez so!!
stuff that bullshit marxian twatwaffle right up your ass.
marxism cant win by violent revolution so now youre trying to win by subterfuge and erosion.
marxism doesnt work and we in the US dont want it.
if marxism was so sweet, why is belgium an irrelevant shithole swarming with sand niggers?
>>73657549
Lipstick doesn't help pigs to be pretty and PhD's don't help women to be smart.
>>73656505
sort of agree with this but you would have to stop outsiders buying land then
>>73657549
This is the problem with a lot of scholar. Their diplomas gave them sun sized egos.
You cannot have a conversation as they're 100% sure to be more right than you ever would be. (unless you get the magic paper ofc)
>>73657443
>statement without proof
nice
>>73656716
> skinheads started as a nigger thing
damn youre stupid.
"skinheads" were a subculture of the punk subculture with shittier music and shittier style.
it began among working class hooligans in england, not god damned niggers.
it started as a pleb tier trend among the white trash and remained there
>>73657613
You shouldn't be neutral, it affects you. Trump being elected is a signal to the rest of the world that someone is willing to stand up to Islamic conquest.
A commission? Never
>>73656943
Almost any system can be exploited
The trick, I think, is not designing a system that cant be exploited but designing one where the benefits of buying in and working towards shared goals outweigh the benefits of gaming it for personal advantage
>>73657634
> i don't understand what is wrote/i don't agree
> must be an evil jew/bolchevik/marxist
Woah calm down sugar. I didn't even mentioned marxism.
And where did you get that idea that Belgium was under a marxist rule (majority is extreme right-wing conservatives and center-right)?
My point is democracy as it exist in political system is uncomplete and that we should consider to renew it in accordance to our era.
>>73657626
Yes, and of course she didn't believe me, and wouldn't change my grade.
Thankfully, I was taking some type of government class at the same time, so I asked that prof. what he thought about the situation and showed him my paper. He was an old crusty fart, and he got legitimately upset about it.
He sent her an email and explained how fucking dumb she was I guess, cause she changed my grade.
I bet this bitch would have been a SJW nowadays, but this was about 7 years before the SJW fad came about thankfully.
>>73657443
>the election in London was tampered with. Voter fraud in the Muslim majority areas.
source?
>>73657836
Oh excuse me. Niggers AND wiggers. Still, it doesn't have that association anymore, now does it?
Democracy would be grand if man was as the founder thought he was.
The problem for democracy is diversity. It works best in homogeneous populations.
>>73653895
ur right, we need fascism.
no freedom, no conflicts, no problem.
>>73653895
Not when it was restricted to land owners. Even if it was open to non-whites and women, the land ownership requirement would fix a lot of problems.
>>73656950
> people defying the govt...
somalia
detroit
the LA riots (all of them)
ferguson
etc etc etc
i am describing the total breakdown of society in various places for varying durations.
that is anarchy.
anarchy is NOT:
a protest
a political theory
a cool new kind of socialism
an intelligent position
a solution to anything
something to strive for
a mystical unicorn utiopian dream indistinguishable from marx's "worker's paradise
anarchy is CHAOS and disorder, where the strong prey on the weak, and cannibalistic raiders wearing old tires for armour ride across a blasted desert landscape searching for gasoline.
give up faggot
you cant win this argument, because i dont give a shit about your Feels.
>>73658195
That's still just opening up your society to abuse and plutocracy.
>>73657875
By neutral I mean that I don't have any leverage on this election. Nevertheless, even if I'm clearly not a great supporter of his ideas (and also because I don't really see what he really wants to achieve as he's flip-flopping with electoral lies a lot) I think it will bring conflicts and change, which is needed.
> someone is willing to stand up to Islamic conquest
This "islamic conquest" is nothing more than a symptom and a scapegoat as most terrorist are national citizens who grew from parents, or grand-parents who migrates decades ago.
If we want to "stop terrorism" we need to go to the root of the problem. (and this might be some specific radical wings of islam, but it's a fallacy to think it is the islam as a whole)
A democracy can only be functional when only white, tax paying men can make decisions. Otherwise it's anarchy.
>>73658332
That's still just plutocracy.
>>73657518
> congress acts as a democracy..
werent you listening in jr high civics?
congress is NOT a democracy within itself even.
they operate through committees, bound by the tenets of the constitution (in theory) and serve the wishes of their individual constituents (in theory)
congress doesnt just run into a big room 3 times a week and vote on random shit.
that would be "democracy" and it would be an even bigger mess than our current fucked up system.
>>73658230
My understanding is that anarchy is an absence of government. Maybe we have different definitions.
>>73658103
> The problem for democracy is diversity. It works best in homogeneous populations.
Then we have lobbying and representative democracy systems that exist for this.
But I agree that democracy is really more efficient in smaller unity (like the panchayat in North-India & Nepal).
I'll just quote Yinger:
> «Separation is legitimate in a democracy when it does not deny any group access to the culture while giving others an advantage, when it does not so warp the personalities of some — by denying them hope and the opportunity to learn the skills and values of the society — that not only they but the whole nation suffers.»
A republic is a form of democracy
By definition we are a democracy
You niggers are fucking retarded
Back on point, no I dont think democracy was a mistake, as churchill once said, "democracy is the worst form of government, except for all others." In other words, democracy can suck, but its better then having someone like Hitler or Mao dictating your life. And before you Nat Soc faggots come out of the woodwork to defend hitler, keep in mind even Rommel wanted Hitler dead, and was subsequently given the choice to poison himself, or his family harmed.
>>73658421
No, it's how you avoid Bastiat's Warning about the voters voting themselves money.
>>73658025
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/elections-2016-absolute-shambles-in-barnet-as-voters-turned-away-from-polling-stations-with-wrong-a7014411.html
http://pamelageller.com/2016/05/muslim-anti-semite-elected-london-mayor.html/
Chief Rabbi of London was literally not allowed to vote.
>>73657988
> didnt even mention marxism
yeah, you squeaked a few plaintive notes about your special snowflake "socialism thats totally not marxism, even though it looks exactly like marxism, but it aint marxism because i'm not a marxist! i'm a "socialist"!!"
refusing to admit your marxism makes you a Crypto-Marxist, the lowest form of leftist scum.
and youre the only one bringing up jews.
marxists love to blame the jews for all marxism's failing, but the fact remains, the chinks couldnt make marxism work, and they are 100% jew-free.
>>73654876
So a republic is a trustworthy one ?
>>73658094
> niggers AND wiggers
no, there were never any niggers involved at all.
claiming there were is patently retarded.
>>73658621
>I don't think democracy is a bad idea because Churchill
Daily Reminder that Churchill was literally Satan.
>>73658679
Reaganite retard. There is no way to give the wealthy preferential power without resulting in plutocracy like we have now. And the rich always vote in favor of themselves getting more money, regardless of how much damage they have to do. If they have to erase all borders and encourage racemixing to get their universal Brazil, then that's what they'll do.
Here's a great example. During the the Obama presidency, something like 3/4 of the American population were against illegal immigration. So what did the federal government do? Why they did what they always do after Raygun: they said fuck the will of the people and enforced what the rich wanted, breaking their own laws in order to do so.
>>73658888
I agree with what he said in that particular moment.
reposting from an old thread:
I was thinking that democracy could be refined into a system, where the population is divided into residents and citizens.
citizenship could be attained by fulfilling these two prerequisites.
1) Being born and having lived in the country for atleast 10 years
2a) doing citizenship service (basically our current conscription but voluntary)
2b) having atleast 2 childern and being a parent present in their lives (no single mother who ride the cock carousel)
toughts?
>>73658888
Also, what do you support as a system of government?
I feel like the only mistake with democracy is to assume that it's incorruptible
Which is of course what 99% of people seem to assume these days for some fucking reason. No system is inherently bad (with a few exceptions) but all systems are vulnerable to corruption down to it's very core
and on top of that democracy is only as functional as it's people
in a world of rampant stupidity democracy becomes a destructive force rather than one that inspires and innovates
>>73658813
You should quit whatever you are on, it's clearly not good for you.
If someone (me) say that there are paths in the theory (guild socialism) of GDH cole to improve democracy as it exists now, it doesn't mean that someone (me) is fully agreeing to the said theory.
And I don't blame jew, I was caricaturing you.
Finally, as I understand I need to explain things in simple terms for you:
Stop putting people in boxes before trying to understand their point, otherwise you'll condemn your mind to an infinite circlejerk.
>>73653977
>>73656244
>>73656699
>>73656966
>>73657988
>>73658511
>>73658599
>>73658888
very nice
>>73658597
> absence of govt
that's part of it.
the other part is the Total Breakdown Of Society.
in a tribal society there is no govt, yet society functions based on the family group hierarchy without any outside intervention.
even pirates were able to establish order among themselves without any government structure.
anarchy is disorder, usually resulting from a breakdown in governance in a complex society due to:
revolution (18th century france)
Marxist Insurgency (south america, since the 1900's)
the collapse of an existing system with nothing to replace it (south africa in the hands of the niggers)
a breakdown in an authoritarian regime, unleashing pent up tribal violence dating back to the dawn of time (pretty much all of west africa)
a m0slem insurgency (all of sandland at one time or another)
a natural disaster (new orleans after katrina)
or Niggers
>>73659058
> 2b) having atleast 2 childern and being a parent present in their lives (no single mother who ride the cock carousel)
Quite dangerous, not everyone wants to/can be a parent and it represent also very useful members of the society.
>>73659035
Of course you do and for the exact same reason both muslims and christians believe their personal sect of their personal religion is the best religion in the history of the world: because it's all you've ever known.
>>73659203
dat lowest common denominator, senpai
>>73659312
the point I'm making is that the scenarios you described still had a government, it was just being disobeyed.
>>73659242
> invoked a marxist author as a solution to america's problems
> "how DARE you accuse me of being a marxist!!!!"
> who else invokes marxist authors to solve america's problems which are the direct result of marxist sabotage?
either admit youre a marxist or stfu.
>>73653895
Too soon to tell
>>73659312
> in a tribal society there is no govt, yet society functions based on the family group hierarchy without any outside intervention
1) What are you calling "outside intervention"
2) Tribal society from where?
Ever heard about panchayat or 'assabiya?
>>73659079
I support a very complex system which has never been used. Meritocratic Empire. Capitalism would be illegal as well as ALL forms of currency. Barter would be allowed, but most things would be provided by community effort and distributed through state marketplaces/agorae/malls. The government would have a labor system to determine what labor was required to keep things running and assign the general labor force to each task until it was no longer needed and volunteering during for example planting and harvest would be encouraged. Mass automation and mechanization would also be employed. Personality testing would also be prevalent and anyone with sociopathic tendencies not only wouldn't be allowed to climb to the top of society, but would be immediately sterilized, if not outright terminated or exiled.
>>73653895
define democracy
Yes.
We need a neo-feudal pluralistic empire.
>>73659667
make me fagt
>>73653895
letting women vote is worse than anything
>>73658878
Fucking retard. Skinhead culture was ripped directly off of nigger bullshit. Get over yourself, faggot. Don't you have a CI meeting to attend?
>>73659490
> GDH Cole is a marxist
There is a huge difference between libertarian socialists and marxists…
>>73657046
This book is so fucking good. The footnotes have also given me many more books to read.
>>73659746
Letting most men vote is a mistake. Most people are idiots. That's exactly why democracy's retarded. And despite capitalist protestations, the rich aren't intelligent in the mass either.
>>73659440
No.
when govt breaks down, it ceases to be govt.
somalia has NO govt.
the talibs in afghanistan were NOT a govt.
Isis/isil/daesh is not a govt.
when niggers are rioting there is no govt, only your guns
the existence of a govt is predicated on it's GOVERNANCE (law, order, justice, redress of grievances, enforcement of contracts, protection of property, quelling of lawless violence through LAWFUL violence, etc) when that fails, there is no govt in the effected region.
when a bunch of niggers kick in your door with visions of rapine and plunder dancing in their heads, there is NO GOVT during that event, only you and your guns vs the niggers and their guns.
ie: anarchy.
>>73653895
Yes, but Trump will correct it very soon.
>>73659667
jk senpai. Idk how to descrive it perfectly, but generally I'd say that it's majority opinion. Look up what a republic is and maybe you can undestand the difference, I don't know how to describe it well right now.
no, universal suffrage was.
>>73659647
So something between mandarinat, co-operatives and guilds with a huge investment in research?
>>73659929
>le republics are not democracies meme
Are you in grade 5?
>>73659828
> libertarian socialist...
another pink unicorn crypto-marxist anarcho-_________ist fantasy for the weak minded and addle pated
libertarianism is the new name for classical liberalism, predicated on the freedom of the individual, while SOCIALISM remains a collectivist authoritarian 3rd stage marxist dictatorship
the two are incompatible.
liberty is destroyed by socialism
every.
fucking.
time.
claiming to be a "libertarian socialist" is just a pretty new party dress on the scrofulous old whore of marxism
>>73659872
Sure...you keep thinking that
>>73659647
special snowflake marxism, the post.
>>73659850
>the government ceases to exist when niggers chimp out because it isn't present at the time.
Do you think washinton DC just vanishes? The government still exists, and (supposedly) will later bring the niggers to justice.
>>73659828
>libertarian socialists
kek commies can't be libertarians stop with your snowflake shit
>>73659774
> grandiose claims with no supporting evidence
and into the trash you go
we wuz Skinheads n sheeeit.
>>73659348
Yes this is a problem but I made that rule on the assumption that the primary objective of the nation is the survival of its people
>>73660015
Despite how it sounds, it's really not that bureaucratic. It's nice that you said the word guild, however, because there would be guilds for people with actual interests and they would have most of the power. People without direction, interests or skills would just get dumped into the general labor force. Ideally, these people would be bred out of existence and general labor would be handled by a combination of automation and volunteer work when required by skilled individuals.
The significant difference between this and ALL other prior systems is that sociopathy literally CAN'T determine your rise to the top, because you're actively weeded out for that, so what happens is that the people who prove most competent and to have the best judgment rise to the top, for the benefit of all.
>>73660223
It is very similar to communism. The main difference being it's openly NOT egalitarian and staunchly, overtly opposed to the very concept. Marx had some great ideas. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" has always been one of my favorite instructions for how to run a society. The problem was the egalitarianism. It's basically a lot like Nazi Germany, except with ALL the capitalist elements utterly purged. Also, monotheism would be illegal, but other religions would be tolerated.
>>73656625
>then why are all the sjw's leftist atheists?
Leftists did kinda commandeer atheism after all, it's so bad that they're attacking Dawkins, Harris and co.
>>73653895
with multi culturalism it is
>>73660384
>>73660155
> pic related
>>73660436
Obviously the primary objective of a social group (you wrote nation but it applies to most social group imo) is its own survival.
Then as you have a notion of citizenship (as per se right to vote) where only the most useful members of the society can vote you should consider that besides reproduction some members can be really useful (security, food production, research, …)
>>73660972
libertrian socialsists not just cucked sjws
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNGDxi9dN04
>>73660544
> because there would be guilds for people with actual interests and they would have most of the power
So it has to have an ideology to link all the members of the society, a project of society. If not, private interests will feed themselves at the expense of others who didn't get access to property, etc, …
>>73660254
unless you have a police station in your living room, the govt cant do shit for you.
effectively the govt doesnt existe between tyrone kicking in your door, and jamal, finishing his last exhausted pump into your daughter's corpse.
For Moments Like These...
Smith And Wesson.
>>73656113
>Rule of law
Who makes the laws?
>>73661239
Yes, but this is where the option of the citizenship service comes into play. Maybe I stated it unclearly but you could either have the required amount of children or do the service or both.
>>73661414
Well if by ideology you mean "what's actually best for the species and all other life" then yes. Anything that plays to human vice is obviously going to be a disaster. Currently we have a system that plays to the human vices of greed, excess and brutality.
If your society has ANY "private interests", you're already lost and your civilization is living on borrowed time. You may keep it afloat for a while, but the aristocracy will bring that fucking ship down as soon as they can. Money was a mistake.
>>73661361
I'll say it again, with even simpler terms to understand this time >>73659242
[A] say : [PARTS] of [X-theory] are intersting to [ANALYSE] in order to get a different point of view on [D-System].
Is different than:
[A] say : We should take the [WHOLE] [X-theory] to [CHANGE] the [D-System].
SO:
If [A] is analysing [X-Theory], it doesn't mean that [A] is agreeing to the whole [X-Theory]
>>73656113
>Communism
>Socalism
>Monarchies
Literally what in the fuck? Monarchies tend to be capitalist as shit. That's why kings always end up having to purge jews and the aristocracy periodically.
>>73661804
Feudalism you mean senpai. Close enough
>>73661511
Ah ok. Makes more sense put that way.
I'm agreeing. "Democracy" as it exist today is totally corrupted by mass medias, populism, politician carrerism and private [including corporate] interests.
>>73661788
guize my ideology isn't retarded i promise
>>73661648
> Currently we have a system that plays to the human vices of greed, excess and brutality.
Yep, we mostly focus on short-time interesses rather than mid & long-term development.
> If your society has ANY "private interests", you're already lost and your civilization is living on borrowed time
I don't think societal and private interests are to be forcefuly opposed. Private interests are quite sane if they don't have a too much negative impact on the society.
If an individual feel good, he'll have a better impact on its social environment.
Democracy is absolutely the best government...
... if the people are extremely well educated and our society is pro intellectual rather than the anti intellectual "smart people are icky" society we currently have. Failing that, meritocracy/technocracy is better.
>>73662156
>Yep, we mostly focus on short-time interesses rather than mid & long-term development.
Hell, even that's not correct. We focus on the short-term DESIRES of a tiny fraction of the population (the rich). What they want isn't even good FOR THEM. The rich are like any other addict, except their drug is money. And we've let them hold human society at gunpoint for decades.
>Private interests are quite sane
Define "private interests". If money or capitalism appear anywhere in that definition, you're dead. You may not know it, but your society is dead. You just killed it.
>If an individual feel good, he'll have a better impact on its social environment.
I don't understand what you're getting at here. Capitalism sure as shit doesn't promote human happiness.
>>73653895
where was it ever tried in the last 1000 years?
>>73662395
> We focus on the short-term DESIRES
That's what I meant. You could call it social needs or whatever you want, we're talking about the same thing (ex: I'm going to buy that fucking expansive X thing so my cultural circle will see how much I spent in that). The Gossen's first law (marginal utility) is quite useful to analyse this..
> Private interests
Somehow related to Maslow's pyramid. Let say if an individual needs to take a break/do something outside the 'normal way' of the society because of personnal problems, he should be able to do so.
It's mostly about respect of personnal freedom.
> Capitalism sure as shit doesn't promote human happiness.
By capitalism do you mean neo-liberal economics?
>>73653895
no, what other system could as effectively have exposed the cucks?
>>73662456
In small systems. As democracy is not a monolith you can find it in very different ways. A really good example are the panchayat in my opinion.
>>73662922
Theocracy and feudalism were doing a really great job imho.
> i'm poor because thy lords wants it and that's fine
>>73662840
>Somehow related to Maslow's pyramid. Let say if an individual needs to take a break/do something outside the 'normal way' of the society because of personnal problems, he should be able to do so.
>It's mostly about respect of personnal freedom.
That's not generally what people mean by "private interests". What that term is usually used to mean is "monied interests". But that's not an issue because the health and wellbeing of the people would be the ONLY concern of the society. The struggle to feed the appetites of the rich wouldn't exist.
>By capitalism do you mean neo-liberal economics?
By capitalism I mean capitalism. I mean using any form of money at all. Having to bribe people to fucking live because you've raised them with a culture of entitlement (a true sense of entitlement is a symptom of capitalism, not socialism).
>>73662456
I have a pregnancy fetish now
Fuck you
>>73653895
We might reinstate a form of direct democracy desu senpai.
Take what google and facebook do with the things you search and the advertising they give.
This might be implemented as a form of policy making.
It would make democracy efficient again.
Say we had everybody type what they want on election day. Then parliament would be able to use this for policy making.
>>73653895
Voting rights for literally every adult was a mistake.
>>73662156
>Yep, we mostly focus on short-time interesses rather than mid & long-term development.
Holy fuck this. I can think of no clearer example than this: http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/
No one thinks about infrastructure until it breaks, they perform the quickest repair they can and hope it doesn't break again on their watch.
>>73663073
Well you need to have a form of money to exchange. Money is based on truth and give you the possibility to have a faire exchange of your work.
Also, what powers do you intends to give to your governemental system? Will it be centralized, federal, …
>>73661421
This. There is no reason, unless you're a total cuck or have a mental illness, to NOT have a gun in this country.
>>73653895
Democracy? no
Democrats? yes
>>73653895
The republican form of government wasn't a mistake. Universal suffrage was a mistake.
You gotta make a clear distinction between actual, direct democracy and the representative "democracy" we have these days.
I believe you can't take away the right to participate from people. And i think it's not about choosing the smart ones to give them the right to vote, but more along the lines of making everyone smart enough to vote.
>>73663757
We're so used to this in Belgium it cames out with blatancy... Problem is the electoral system is an obstacle to mid & long-term policies.
If you want to be re-elected you :
• make promises you know you won't be able/you won't want to achieve;
• use populism to tell people what they want to hear (ex: most conservatives tactic [1, I scare you. 2, I tell you that X scapegoat is responsible of your fear. 3, I tell you that I have a wonderful and easy way to solutionate that if you elect me).
>>73664095
> it's not about choosing the smart ones to give them the right to vote, but more along the lines of making everyone smart enough to vote.
I'd buy you a beer if you were there
>>73663958
this. poor, uneducated fucks were never supposed to be able to vote.
This was why the founding fathers only allowed white male land-owners to vote.
>>73663832
>Well you need to have a form of money to exchange
No. You don't. You just need direction. Something needs done? Fucking do it already. Don't wait for a fucking paycheck. Believe it or not there was once a time when people did shit because it needed done or they died. They didn't wait for some rich cunt to hand them a slip of paper to exchange for other pieces of paper so they could then trade those dirty papers for what they needed.
>faire exchange
>Fair
>Capitalism is based on fairness
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Not even remotely. Not on its best day in its entire history.
>Also, what powers do you intends to give to your governemental system? Will it be centralized, federal
It's not like that. The guilds have power over their fields. Physicians would control medicine for example. And together the guilds form the government under the direction of an Emperor who guides the entire system. This system is repeated at every scale: city, province, region, planet, etc. The plebs can voice any concerns through a grievance/community forum process and all concerns are addressed and responded to (not with a thank you, fuck you letter but an actual detailed response), but they have ZERO power - they can just be replaced with machines. Who's a pleb is determined by your interests, intelligence and skill though, not how many resources you've managed to steal from everyone else. The system is nearly a total meritocracy.
>>73664309
>The system is nearly a total meritocracy.
I would agree with this statement based on what you are describing.
I hate that meritocracy gets used to mean 'those who are [vague]successful' in our society.
>>73664309
>Believe it or not there was once a time when people did shit because it needed done or they died. They didn't wait for some rich cunt to hand them a slip of paper to exchange for other pieces of paper so they could then trade those dirty papers for what they needed
So we should all move to the country and grow our own food, build our own houses, etc. then? Because if you wanted someone else to grow it/build it for you everything would get complicated if you don't have actual uniform means of exchange (Let's exchange a day of work for 3 chicken legs, 5 square potatoes and half a bitten burger?).
>Not on its best day in its entire history.
Agreed, it's not about fairness. If someone wins then someone else has to lose.
It's very effective, though.
The idea of guilds sounds convincing enough. I also agree with some form of autonomous popular councils to make the decisions.
But an emperor? The head of state should only deal with foreign policy
>>73664309
> Something needs done? Fucking do it already
Well someone can't be a soldier/an agricultor/an engineer/a doctor/… in the same time.
> Believe it or not there was once a time when people did shit because it needed done or they died.
What was the mortality rate back then?
> Physicians would control medicine for example.
So it's corporate interests.
> Emperor who guides the entire system.
> The plebs can voice any concerns (…) but they have ZERO power - they can just be replaced with machines.
Autocracty then. Not a big fan tbqh
> Who's a pleb is determined by your interests, intelligence and skill though, not how many resources you've managed to steal from everyone else. The system is nearly a total meritocracy.
So the place of anyone in the society will be determined by
a) the guild of education
b) the emperor
?
>>73663399
Too prone to tampering by insiders or outsiders.
>>73653977
mfw my hat has opinion of me
>>73664309
>>73664872
You two seem to be into that "guild" thing.
I'm about to read this as I've read a few things the author wrote on the subject (see >>73656654
):
https://books.google.be/books/about/Guild_Socialism.html?id=9DaaQQAACAAJ&redir_esc=y
>>73664872
>But an emperor? The head of state should only deal with foreign policy
Likely he intends for the emperor to act as a tie breaker to prevent gridlock and as he said to act as a guide. To put the latter part another way, to act as a living body which carries the original intentions of the civilization and limits.
>>73656842
Republics are a subset of democracy.
They are not mutually exclusive.
>>73664841
That's the stupid reaganite appropriation of the term. It's no more valid than nigger appropriation of Egypt.
>>73664872
>So we should all move to the country and grow our own food, build our own houses, etc. then?
There is literally nothing wrong with that. Except that's not what's indicated by my system. Collective effort is simply used for collective goals such as food production or construction. The guilds do their work because it's what they want to do with their lives. For instance, again, the Physicians would practice medicine because it's what their passion is, not because they were getting paid. The general work force is just assigned tasks as needed. Such is the price for being a pleb with no interests or direction.
>Because if you wanted someone else to grow it/build it for you everything would get complicated if you don't have actual uniform means of exchange
That's just assumed because it's all you're used to. The jews have created a two-faced system of just this sort so retards think there's nothing outside that myopic little universe. The truth is there are all kinds of ways to run a society. They're just not popularized.
>Let's exchange a day of work for 3 chicken legs, 5 square potatoes and half a bitten burger?
Doesn't work like that. The community works for food production and at harvest they deliver it whichever distribution nodes require the food closest in proximity to the harvest site. Food is allotted based on a combination of how well the crops did and state-mandated rations.
>Agreed, it's not about fairness. If someone wins then someone else has to lose.
It's very effective, though.
Inb4 someone starts ranting about how capitalism "isn't a zero sum game", as if that implies the vast majority of the sum isn't hoarded by the rich.
>>73664880
>Well someone can't be a soldier/an agricultor/an engineer/a doctor/… in the same time.
Hence there are the plebs, unskilled workers who are basically just laborers or jack of all trades to fill in the gaps of what can not be automated.
At the same time there are those who are versed in specialties, organized into guilds who manage them.
Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others
>>73665531
>homosexuality is the worst form of sexuality, except for all the others
>>73664872
>autonomous popular councils
They're not really autonomous. It's ABSOLUTELY nothing like the United States where various states do retarded shit because they have the flawed idea that they're their own little nations and whatever autistic sociopath wins the election thinks it's his own little kingdom. It's just local-level maintenance basically so the people at the very top don't have to micro-manage. It's mostly on autopilot. Local decisions are to be made about things, but that doesn't mean provinces or cities can do whatever the hell they want until the feds step and and smack their retarded hick shit in like happens in America CONSTANTLY. Creationism would never make it into public schools in this system without entire families being executed in public. Stupid shit like that would NOT fly.
>But an emperor? The head of state should only deal with foreign policy
That's not an objective statement. It's just your opinion.
>>73664880
>Well someone can't be a soldier/an agricultor/an engineer/a doctor/… in the same time.
That's what the guilds and the general labor force are for. Each guild does most of the work of their field. The military would do what it does because that's it's life work. And volunteer support would be "conscripted" as needed (all voluntarily - there is no draft, but military training is encouraged for all adult citizens).
>What was the mortality rate back then?
Irrelevant. What was the level of medical knowledge back then?
>>73665025
Well, even if you wanted 100% direct democracy you can't make everyone an expert on every field, so it makes sense to have everyone participate in deciding the general course of policies, and then have the respective councils take care of the detailed stuff related to their fields of expertice.
What is key is transparency and accountability. If you don't have those, like you said, it would be no different from a rule of corporate interests.
>>73665338
>the Physicians would practice medicine because it's what their passion is, not because they were getting paid
Commie bullshit that fails to take human nature into account.
>The truth is there are all kinds of ways to run a society
Please do explain how would exchange work without a means of exchange then. How and what can i give in exchange for a house, a car, and any private property for that matter?
>Food is allotted based on a combination of how well the crops did and state-mandated rations.
Do you even realize how fucked can this get? This is exactly why the supermarkets in USSR and Venezuela are empty. You're giving TOO MUCH power to the state, and that's the first and most dreadful failure of socialism.
>as if that implies the vast majority of the sum isn't hoarded by the rich.
That's pretty inevitable. There will be people losing and making money, people losing and making lots of money, and people losing and making absolute fucktons of money.
To restrict that would be nonsense, not to mention the obvious repercussions if you're the only one doing it (capital flight).
>>73664880
>So it's corporate interests.
Well you could call it that, but they'd be non-profit corporations if anything since money is literally illegal and a higher position doesn't necessarily net you greater resources.
>a) the guild of education
>b) the emperor
You worded that weirdly. Your status is determined by two things: initially as a young person you're assessed to see what your interests and talents in life are. You receive education in those fields accordingly - if it changes, you're moved to the right field until it sticks. This determines which guild(s) you INITIALLY join (you can belong to any or all guilds simultaneously). The Emperor doesn't really play a part in this. That would be micromanagement to a ludicrous degree. The Emperor mostly deals with Empire-tier concerns (provincial matters, overall resource distribution, expansion and new territory planning, the direction the culture is heading, etc.). He could take an interest in anything he chose to focus on, but it would get kind of ridiculous if he was attempting to manage every city and citizen.
>>73665264
Exactly. But the Emperor is also omnipotent. He COULD theoretically do anything he wants, but he wouldn't be a good leader if he abused his power and it obviously could lead to civil war which would be a major fucking no-no for this society since the idea of humans killing other humans (outside of the worst criminals) would be abhorrent, instead of the norm like it is in modern society (Yeah we killed a million Iraqis to steal their oil. Who gives a fuck? They don't share my culture/look like me.).
>>73665427
Precisely.
>>73665634
Lel
>>73665940
>Commie bullshit that fails to take human nature into account.
You mean like the NAP? Get out, fag. Capitalism has melted your brain.
>Please do explain how would exchange work without a means of exchange then.
All tiers of society are encouraged to be self-sufficient. It's not a top down, capitalshit system where dependence is encouraged so the rich fucks at the top can suck everyone else dry. Cities are encouraged to raise the majority of their own food, produce their own power, etc.
>How and what can i give in exchange for a house, a car, and any private property for that matter?
Technically things like housing would not be private property, though they would operate as though they are. It's not difficult to grasp. You need housing, you inquire about the area you want to move to at the central office or through the communications network (self-contained internet basically) to see what's available. Instead of signing a lease with a landlord, you get an assingment through the central office. There's just no money involved.
>This is exactly why the supermarkets in USSR and Venezuela are empty. You're giving TOO MUCH power to the state, and that's the first and most dreadful failure of socialism.
>DAAASS STATIST!!
The reason the USSR and Venezuala are fucked are for two different reasons. The USSR was a kike wet dream and that explains that. Venezuela is a non-white third world country.
>That's pretty inevitable.
In capitalism. Exactly. Now you're getting it.
>>73665940
>There will be people losing and making money, people losing and making lots of money, and people losing and making absolute fucktons of money.
>Ignore the fact that the people making fucktons of money make life a living hell for everyone else so they can make eternally growing profits (which they don't need in the slightest).
The problem with capitalism is that there can literally never be enough wealth in the cosmos to satisfy the greedy and they will do ANYTHING to get it, up to and including destroying their own species and every other species they can get their greedy hands on to do so.
Not a mistake, it was planned, removing the empires of earth will only make room for making the one world government.
The only effective form of government is an absolute monarchy. This is not debatable.
>>73666350
> Your status is determined by two things: initially as a young person you're assessed to see what your interests and talents in life are.
How are you going to do so? There is a huge practical flaw here.
>The Emperor doesn't really play a part in this. That would be micromanagement to a ludicrous degree. The Emperor mostly deals with Empire-tier concerns
So s/he takes decision without regards of their feasibility/impacts and can have an imperial prerogative. Sounds dangerous.
> the direction the culture is heading
"the" culture?
Such thing literaly doesn't exist. Or your empire is very small or it is a terrible repressive system.
> the Emperor is also omnipotent. He COULD theoretically do anything he wants, but he wouldn't be a good leader if he abused his power and it obviously could lead to civil war
Pretty much what would happen in my opinion. It just need a group of individual who think that the system is unfair or in opposition to their belief to start to sew mischief.
>>73653895
Unless it's direct democracy it's not democracy.
>>73653895
Democracy is great until it's corrupted by capitalism. IMO they can't co-exist
Universal suffrage was
>>73653895
republicanism was a mistake
the american revolution and french revolution should never have happened
>>73653895
A mistake or a necessary but regrettable stage of evolution?
>>73666980
This tbqh senpai.
>>73653895
universal suffrage was a mistake.
democracy should be limited to a small but not tiny group of well educated Stakeholders that share the same culture
>>73665940
>commie
>human nature
Buzzwords
The system being described is one where in results are valued more important than compensation. I suppose if you get into semantics(?) achieving the results is in effect your compensation, the better the farms do the more food you have for example.
It is not compatible with the 'keeping up with the Jones' model of capitalism where people are trying to out do each other, even in their career choices. It is likely what you would get if people did think in mid and long term instead of in short term.
That said he did already say that it is very similar to communism minus the fallacy of egalitarianism.
>This is exactly why the supermarkets in USSR and Venezuela are empty.
An often overlooked reason for why the USSR collapsed is because it never properly recovered from WW2 and then got into a cold war where it allocated 99% of it's efforts and resources to building weapons and posturing. What's that Mr farmer you need gas for the tractor? But then how will the tanks go on parade?
>>73667032
>How are you going to do so? There is a huge practical flaw here.
What do you mean? Are you making the claim that public education is an impossibility??
>So s/he takes decision without regards of their feasibility/impacts and can have an imperial prerogative.
No, stupid. They're just not micromanaging. How is that hard to understand?
You guys are trying to make this more complicated and dysfunctional than it actually is.
>"the" culture?
>Such thing literaly doesn't exist. Or your empire is very small or it is a terrible repressive system.
>Belgium
>Europe
Do I need to say any more? Your continent and the West in general isn't really in any position to be telling anyone else what to do with culture.
>Pretty much what would happen in my opinion.
There are many levels of protections against corruption and massive fuck ups like this.
>It just need a group of individual who think that the system is unfair or in opposition to their belief to start to sew mischief.
That sort of shit would never be tolerated. If the system ain't broke, don't fucking rock the boat. You really do always have the option of exile.
>>73667249
>the better the farms do the more food you have for example.
Agriculture would be overseen by literal geniuses whose passion is agriculture. We wouldn't be stuck in the rut we now are with factory farming using fucktons of pesticides, herbicides and petroleum-based fertilizers. The current agricultural system is itching for a massive collapse.
>>73666883
>>73666350
>>73665818
>>73665338
>>73664309
>>73663073
>>73662395
>>73661804
>>73661648
>>73660544
>>73659841
>>73659647
Actualy, now your systems reminds me a bit the Bir Bikram Shah's Monarchy in Nepal before the Rana take-over in the XIX's century.
You might find materal to think there:
B.L. Joshi & L.E.Rose.(1966).Democratic Innovations in Nepal: A Case Study of Political Acculturation.Berkeley and Los Angeles University of California Press
>>73653895
this fucking cat
>>73666980
who died and made you king?
>>73667032
>So s/he takes decision without regards of their feasibility/impacts and can have an imperial prerogative. Sounds dangerous.
Where did you pull that out of? He said no where that the Emperor would be deciding these things on a whim, only that he could technically do so and the only that would stop that is an uprising.
>Pretty much what would happen in my opinion.
Nothing lasts forever, it would probably come apart and be reorganized many times over a long period of time.
>>73666859
>Capitalism has melted your brain.
And communism has obliterated yours. You're just advocating for people working for free all willy nilly without accounting for their natural selfishness.
>Cities are encouraged to raise the majority of their own food, produce their own power
Have you ever heard of stuff like collective farming? seems like a plan
>You need housing, you inquire about the area you want to move to at the central office or through the communications network (self-contained internet basically) to see what's available. Instead of signing a lease with a landlord, you get an assingment through the central office.
So the state not only controls food but also housing? Man, give me a break.
>The USSR was a kike wet dream and that explains that. Venezuela is a non-white third world country.
The USSR pulled lots of the things you are suggesting, though
>>73667249
>achieving the results is in effect your compensation, the better the farms do the more food you have for example.
What would the extra food be for, anyways? There's only so much you can eat, and there'd be no money to exchange the surplus for. And don't tell me it's for the poor and starving because they wouldn't exist (after all the state gives food to everyone)
>What's that Mr farmer you need gas for the tractor? But then how will the tanks go on parade?
And now instead of allocating the resources on war efforts you have a fucking huge, totalitarian state with every chance at corruption. Be it the tanks or the emperor's personal football stadium, the peasants ain't getting shit
Pic related is a very good read if you guys want to check it out
>>73667249
>It is not compatible with the 'keeping up with the Jones' model of capitalism where people are trying to out do each other, even in their career choices. It is likely what you would get if people did think in mid and long term instead of in short term.
Actually, people who can't plan long term would be anathema and would be exiled as soon as they're discovered or just sterilized and considered invalids. My system would have a much higher standard for good judgment and human intelligence. Most people on Earth currently would be classified as severely retarded.
>That said he did already say that it is very similar to communism minus the fallacy of egalitarianism.
Exactly.
>An often overlooked reason for why the USSR collapsed is because it never properly recovered from WW2 and then got into a cold war where it allocated 99% of it's efforts and resources to building weapons and posturing.
Partially true. But I would argue the true reason the USSR was failed from day one was jews. My system would lock out jews in its founding documents for all time. Let's not forget, however, that for all its problems, the USSR outcompeted the US during one of its most prosperous eras in a great many fields. Whatever capitalists may think, socialism, even when dysfunctional, gets shit done.
>>73667663
He's cute.
>>73667761
Actually, there's something I haven't said yet. To be an administrator, you have to first be a member of ALL other guilds. So overlooking the needs of a section of society would literally be an impossibility. To be a leader practically demands competence and experience in my system. The only real flaw with it is coming up with enough people that aren't retarded to make the gears turn, which I admit is basically impossible currently.
>>73667604
> Are you making the claim that public education is an impossibility??
No. I'm saying that you can't determine the full potential of an individual that easily and that many educational systems are tried and we still struggeling to find something really proficient.
> No, stupid. They're just not micromanaging. How is that hard to understand?
So you want an Emperor cut out of the reality of its people that can't have interactions with them?
It's just gambling over the human nature of your emperor.
> Do I need to say any more? Your continent and the West in general isn't really in any position to be telling anyone else what to do with culture.
Please tell me what is american culture? Are you german-American, afro-american, indo-american, italo-american, … ? This is not without reason that pluralism was born in the US, yet you still seem to think culture as a monolith?
> If the system ain't broke, don't fucking rock the boat. You really do always have the option of exile.
[irony] Of course, if you tell them that way they would surely nicely obey as the gentlemen they are and not plot against the emperor to take power.[/irony]
> Agriculture would be overseen by literal geniuses whose passion is agriculture. We wouldn't be stuck in the rut we now are with factory farming using fucktons of pesticides, herbicides and petroleum-based fertilizers. The current agricultural system is itching for a massive collapse.
So a growth in agriculture employment?
>>73667604
>Agriculture would be overseen by literal geniuses whose passion is agriculture. We wouldn't be stuck in the rut we now are with factory farming using fucktons of pesticides, herbicides and petroleum-based fertilizers. The current agricultural system is itching for a massive collapse.
It was just the first example that popped up in my head, but even say a machinist could develop an improved farming tool resulting increased output. Obviously they would give it to the agricultural guild to decide whether or how it would be implemented.
Specialists doing what they do best improves the operation of the whole of society not just the part of it that one specialist is directly involved with.
>>73667872
>What would the extra food be for, anyways? There's only so much you can eat, and there'd be no money to exchange the surplus for. And don't tell me it's for the poor and starving because they wouldn't exist (after all the state gives food to everyone)
Just a suggestion but how about you preserve it for next year when a drought might occur? Or if a drought doesn't occur you won't need to push the soil so hard and can perhaps let it rest for a cycle?
>Nothing lasts forever, it would probably come apart and be reorganized many times over a long period of time.
Actually, if that happens it's failed. As I said, civil war has been a concern from the beginning of me coming up with this system and I've created a lot of safe-guards against it that even I can't remember them all and would have to look them up again.
>>73667872
>for their natural selfishness.
People are screened at the gate. If you're a sociopath, you don't get in. If you want to eat, you raise food. If you want buildings, you fucking build them. Reality and outcome are more intimately linked in my system. That's why yours is eating itself. You fucking retards think food comes from a grocery store so you wreck the planet's ecosystems through complacency, for starters. You're totally disconnected shitbrains and you think this is a virtue.
>So the state not only controls food but also housing?
Yeah, what's your fucking point?
>The USSR pulled lots of the things you are suggesting, though
Already addressed.
>What would the extra food be for, anyways?
More efficient food production means less growing time/labor. Confirmed for retarded. I mean, you literally can't grasp the virtue of efficiency?
>Flag
Ah I see, I didn't pay attention before. You probably have a double-digit IQ.
>with every chance at corruption
No, because a massive portion of the government's functionality is geared towards the elimination of corruption. It's next to impossible to rise through the ranks through corruption in this system unless the entire system collapses.
>Inb4 AND THAT'S WHAT'LL HAPPEN! WITHOUT THE RICH CONTROLLING EVERYTHING IT WILL ALL BURN!!
>>73667988
>people who can't plan long term would be anathema and would be exiled as soon as they're discovered or just sterilized and considered invalids
>Most people on Earth currently would be classified as severely retarded
You kinda make me wanna go jack off and sleep already. Jesus christ.
>how about you preserve it for next year when a drought might occur?
What kind of food are we talking about by the way? You do know most veggies/fruits get wasted after a couple of weeks even if you keep them in the fridge all the time, right?
>>73667872
>So the state not only controls food but also housing?
You seem to be under the impression this is not the case in the current system, go buy yourself a home that the city has deemed historic and try to do any work. Even neccessary repairs. Good luck with that.
>>73667872
>There's only so much you can eat, and there'd be no money to exchange the surplus for. And don't tell me it's for the poor and starving because they wouldn't exist (after all the state gives food to everyone)
How is this even an argument? OMG you have too much food! Thanks, socialism!
>Be it the tanks or the emperor's personal football stadium
Shit like that doesn't fly here. That's YOUR system you're thinking of.
>>73668036
>I'm saying that you can't determine the full potential of an individual that easily
Actually, most humans really aren't that complicated. I've been designing testing of just this sort for over a decade and most people are terribly boring. Even geniuses typically only have a limited number of skill sets. The only flaw really is that many people display one predilection before adulthood, then realize they're better suited to another in their 20s. But that's handled continuously, so it's not a one-time thing. There's a consistent review process for progress and fit. It's in the state's best interest to have the most efficient pieces in their most appropriate spots.
>So you want an Emperor cut out
You're arbitrarily making a lot of ridiculous assumptions here. The Emperor doesn't live in his mother's basement like you do, sir.
>Please tell me what is american culture?
Greed. Excess. Spectator sports. Capitalcuckery. That's about it.
>Are you german-American, afro-american, indo-american, italo-american
Obviously you've never been to America if you think any of that shit means anything. A getto nigger has more in common in this country with a rich White CEO than either do with say an average Japanese person.
>yet you still seem to think culture as a monolith?
My system is embedded within a nation with its own unique culture. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Prove me wrong.
>>73668759
>>73668759
>My system is embedded within a nation with its own unique culture. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Prove me wrong.
So you want a Roman empire with a more totalitarian aggressive assimilative aspect disguised under a veil of conservative communism
I think i'm going to leave the discution as it is
>>73668460
>You kinda make me wanna go jack off and sleep already. Jesus christ.
Most people on Earth are already severely retarded. The poor countries in the world, where most of the people are, are that way because they can't stop having kids. That one Swedish(?) statistician has done numerous talks on the subject of poor countries and how their birth rates prevent them from getting out of poverty. The only thing that improves their prospects is birth control and sex ed.
>>73668365
>People are screened at the gate
Taking into account that other post about getting rid of "retards" basically you just want to create your little communist paradise with just yourself and the few bots that agree with you. Such a wonderful idea.
I want a country, not an echo chamber.
>what's your fucking point?
You won't understand it as long as you keep believing those fairy tales about having a totalitarian state that magically doesn't become corrupt.
I think you didn't read what was in my image, sigh.
>More efficient food production means less growing time/labor.
You'd end up walking a very thin line between having enough and famine. What will you do with the extra food you already have? Will you just cut the time and labor required, risking that some change in climatic conditions or miscalculation can cause a famine?
>because a massive portion of the government's functionality is geared towards the elimination of corruption.
Based on your previous ideas i guess that means sending corrupt bastards to the gulags or something?
>>73668759
>How is this even an argument?
Nice way to ignore the context of the statement, you said people would be encouraged to produce more food because it benefitted them. Well, if they already have enough what kind of incentive is that?
>>73668972
Refer to the very first paragraph of this post
>>73667988
>Whatever capitalists may think, socialism, even when dysfunctional, gets shit done.
Direction and resource allocation get shit done. The space race is a good example, in both countries there was a direction given and resources supplied, both countries saw unprecedented leaps. 40 years later and capitalism is still only talking about LEO tours.
>>73667136
>republicanism began in the 18th century
>being this much of a literal pleb
While I wouldn't say democracy was a mistake the whole "winner takes all" system from getting just 51% of the votes is kinda bullshit.
>>73668036
>Of course, if you tell them that way they would surely nicely obey as the gentlemen they are and not plot against the emperor to take power.
Shit like that isn't tolerated like it is in your limp-wristed shit Western countries. Sedition is taken very seriously. And generally undesirables are dealt with BEFORE they pull stupid shit. If you're such a trainwreck of a human being that literal paradise on Earth is viewed as undesirable, then why fucking stay? I swear to fuck, human nature itself is the nature of entropy.
>So a growth in agriculture employment?
What?
>>73668110
Exactly. The West doesn't respect genius anymore, if it can ever really be said to have at all. It's more intersted in turning everyone into labor drones. It's like the polar opposite of my system. We're trying to breed humans AWAY from being mindles drones and capitalism is trying to turn Earth into a giant, brown, human anthive.
>Just a suggestion but how about you preserve it for next year when a drought might occur?
Excess food would also be stored, obviously. I can't believe there's an economic system that's got people so fucking brainwashed they think more efficient agriculture which produces more food is a BAD thing. Holy shit, people have ZERO self-analysis skill.
>>73668889
>So you want a Roman empire
No. The Roman Empire was corrupt as everloving shit.
>more totalitarian aggressive assimilative aspect
How did you read that out of anything I said?
>conservative communism
I don't like this terminology. Nothing called "conservative" has ever conserved shit. And it's not communist, though it is very similar in some ways.
>>73669119
>basically you just want to create your little communist paradise with just yourself and the few bots that agree with you.
Actually no. One of my major concerns is that humanity is too retarded now to ever make a system like this work. There simply wouldn't be enough people worthy of guildship. I don't consider that desirable.
>>73668036
>No. I'm saying that you can't determine the full potential of an individual that easily and that many educational systems are tried and we still struggeling to find something really proficient.
A bigger problem is basically 'pride', the system refuse to admit their mistakes and push on anyways. Also our educational understanding is inherently bad since there is a vested interest in keeping most people stupid.
>So a growth in agriculture employment?
The first thing they would probably do is automate the fucking tractor that just runs back and forth across the field and could have been doing so on rails 100 fucking years ago.
>>73653895
Democracy only works in societies that are monocultural and racially and religiously homogenous, because you won't have any large minority groups which will feel 'disenfranchised' because they can't get their voices heard or whatever because they're not the majority, in essence Democracy only works when it essentially isn't needed since you already have consensus on most things, it doesn't work for what it was intended, that is to make divisive rulings appear 'fair'. Are you ever going to change your opinion and accept a majority opinion?
>>73669138
>40 years later and capitalism is still only talking about LEO tours.
>What is the internet
>what is biotechnology
>what are nanomachines
>what are computers/smartphones
Man, no. Just no. You don't need a socialist government pouring money to get shit done. It's about incentives, and capitalism gives plenty of them through profit and competition.
Not to mention now, arguably even more than ever, there are still lots of government funded investigation programs just for the sake of advancing humanity, too
The mistake was letting people who just leech off society and pay no taxes vote.
>>73669119
>I want a country
Maybe you should move to one then.
>I think you didn't read what was in my image, sigh.
I've read it before. It wasn't important then and it's not now. It's just small-government shilling. And much of it actually agrees with me.
>What will you do with the extra food you already have? Will you just cut the time and labor required, risking that some change in climatic conditions or miscalculation can cause a famine?
Climate isn't a factor. Most food is grown indoors under perfectly controlled conditions and year round.
>Based on your previous ideas i guess that means sending corrupt bastards to the gulags or something?
There is no prison system. Undesirable shitheads are either exiled or executed and everyone is made aware of it.
>Nice way to ignore the context of the statement
There is no context other than your own stupidity. Your argument was literally more efficient agriculture will lead to disaster. And you'd be right...if we were talking about capitalism, because capitalists would just suck more nutrients from the Earth and make it as barren as they possibly could. The hilarious thing is every single argument you've made are both childish and more fittingly addressed to capitalism then either communism OR my system.
>>73669138
>The space race is a good example
Exactly.
>both countries saw unprecedented leaps
Not really. America was fucking pathetic in the space race. All they did was ape the USSR. Badly. America was the China of space travel at the time.
>40 years later and capitalism is still only talking about LEO tours.
This goes back to what the other anon said about WWII. Russia did the overwhelming majority of the fighting in that war. America didn't do shit but make money on it hand over fist.
>>73669306
It's by design.
>>73654876
Based Norway.
Location of the Forth Reich.
Heil!
>>73669119
>Refer to the very first paragraph of this post
With no natural predators the weakest traits in humans have no way of being eliminated except to make sure undesirable traits are not passed on. We are doing a terrible idea so far and if you'd like to see the sensationalist perspective on where this is leading then go watch idiocracy.
uncontrolled democracy i.e. allowing welfare queens and women to vote
>>73669578
>it doesn't matter that we didn't progress in X because we did Y instead
Or you could have just done both, oh that's right it's still not profitable to into space exploration and everyone is just playing a game of chicken waiting for someone else to foot the bill.
>>73669327
> Shit like that isn't tolerated like it is in your limp-wristed shit Western countries. Sedition is taken very seriously. And generally undesirables are dealt with BEFORE they pull stupid shit. If you're such a trainwreck of a human being that literal paradise on Earth is viewed as undesirable, then why fucking stay? I swear to fuck, human nature itself is the nature of entropy.
So you need to have a really strong law enforcement, censorship and military state
> growth in agriculture employment
If you want to take another system than agro-industry you have to get more workers in the fields.
> No. The Roman Empire was corrupt as everloving shit.
You're making so much room for corruption in your system. (starting by the suppression of currency)
> "more totalitarian aggressive assimilative aspec" How did you read that out of anything I said?
- totalitarian = anything going out of what you accept must get out of the system by any means
- aggressive = obey or gtfo
- assimilative = one culture is tolerated
>>73669463
> The first thing they would probably do is automate the fucking tractor that just runs back and forth across the field and could have been doing so on rails 100 fucking years ago.
Industrial agriculture is ruining our soils, if we continue on this way it's a collective suicide.
>>73653895
>Was democracy a mistake?
Statism is the mistake, democracy is just one of its stages.
People always think the issue is how it's decided whose will is to be forced upon everyone else when the real issue is that force is falsely believed to be necessary at all.
>>73669578
The problem with capitalism is that accomplishing the "goal" is a tertiary concern at BEST. Profit is always the main aim. And if money is coming from the government (which it always inevitably does in a capitalist system, because the rich always eventually own the government) they have no real motivation to do shit but suck up tax dollars. People praise Elon Musk to the high heavens and for what? Working with century old rocket technology? Oh fuck he can land one! Why weren't we doing this regularly in the 50s? Or at the very least the 60s or 70s.
>what is biotechnology
Interesting you should mention medicine, since m'lord capitalism has the highest cost of medical care in the entire world - specifically because capitalist private interests control the medical system. You'll note that America doesn't even rank in the top ten of quality for medical care on Earth though. Funny how that works.
>what are nanomachines
Don't exist.
>what are computers
Generally a good thing, which capitalists inevitably turned to shit, which brings us to:
>smartphones
Pure. Fucking. Cancer.
>You don't need a socialist government pouring money to get shit done
You're confusing captialism and socialism again. Socialism just gets it fucking done. Capitalists are the ones who dump money on shit without results except fattening the rich ever more.
>>73669306
>While I wouldn't say democracy was a mistake the whole "winner takes all" system from getting just 51% of the votes is kinda bullshit.
>Politicians idea of compromise is trading issue 1 for issue 2
>not sitting down and hammering on issue 1 until they both can agree with it then moving on to 2
It hurts to be alive some times.
>>73669327
>Holy shit, people have ZERO self-analysis skill.
Yes, this. It's amazing how many 'problems' that people present they could have just answered themselves if they had even rudimentary problem solving skills.
>>73670216
>Industrial agriculture is ruining our soils, if we continue on this way it's a collective suicide.
Have to put the breaks on population growth or you'll always need more food unfortunately. Starvation is a natural population control mechanism but I would prefer we don't get to that.
>>73661788
fat josh best josh
>>73669904
>Not really. America was fucking pathetic in the space race. All they did was ape the USSR. Badly. America was the China of space travel at the time.
Apeing the, at the time, cutting edge of rocketry is no small feat. Granted Russia led the way as far as ideas and form factors.
>>73669926
Mike Judge is a prophet. Things that people considered ridiculous in Idiocracy are coming to pass with lightning speed.
>>73670216
>So you need to have a really strong law enforcement
Obviously, if you want to maintain order.
>censorship
Hmm. I guess there are varying levels, but how is that any different than modern society? Pornography would definitely be banned.
>military state
No more than it's an agricultural, medical or scientific state.
>If you want to take another system than agro-industry you have to get more workers in the fields.
I see. No. That's not what I meant. When I said "factory farming" I wasn't referring to mechanization. I was just using as shorthand for all the abuses and lunacy that come from agribusiness, like battery-cages or letting monsanto have partial control of the government or tearing up primeval rainforest for temporary food production. Stupid filth like that.
>You're making so much room for corruption in your system.
You assume. And incorrectly so.
>(starting by the suppression of currency)
This is one of the fucking stupidest things you've said all thread. Capitalism is literally the greatest fosterer of corruption this world has EVER seen.
>anything going out of what...
This shit only applies to having a retarded shitstirrer like you get in somehow. I don't cast pearls before swine. If someone is as hellbent on warping the system to fit their own personal bullshit, then who's the real source of corruption here? You or the government? For some reason, all of society should bow down to kiss your ass, yet the government is corrupt because it doesn't tolerate such selfish childishness? Yeah, nah, you're a cunt.
>Industrial agriculture is ruining our soils
Correct.
>>73670466
It's just post-purchase rationalization. People will do anything to convince themselves the hell they have now is the best possible outcome, when it's more something like the worst. We live in the bad future.
>>73670216
>- totalitarian = anything going out of what you accept must get out of the system by any means
>- aggressive = obey or gtfo
>- assimilative = one culture is tolerated
So 4chan?
>>73670834
>Apeing the, at the time, cutting edge of rocketry is no small feat. Granted Russia led the way as far as ideas and form factors.
But consider this: that was the BEST that muh strongest nation on Earth could do. The BEST. And they tried like fucking mad. They simply couldn't accomplish the goal because capitalism DOES NOT WORK. The USSR was becoming a third world hellhole while this was happening by the way and STILL fucked up America's shit until it faked the moon landings.
>Yep, deal with it faggots. Never happened.
>>73671013
Not so many dickgirls.
>>73653895
Egalitarianism was the real mistake. Democracy is fine when limited to the traditional ruling classes and the money-changing kikes aren't involved.
>>73653895
A mistake? No. A natural progression from failed and outdated feudalism, and an effect of capitalism's initial successes. Presently, the great republics in the west have been revealed to be corrupted, which in fact has been true of them all along. Power has flowed away from a body of government toward the elite, and power continues to exchange between these elites on a global scale through capital, but society as a whole has hit a period of stagnation and suffering. As a result of many circumstances and situations, the scenario has become quite chaotic, and no longer manageable. We are no longer capable of producing positive results, or at least not enough to counter all of the negative affects.
The established power players in the United States are a reflection of the very wealthy people and organizations they represent. Although the oligarchy continues to control the wealth, they are in disarray as a result of the constant Happenings that are occurring worldwide, and their influence over the entire social body has been mitigated on quite a scale. Not only are the oligarchs separated from the body politic of the working class, but they are now divided among each other in such a way that they are no longer able to manage affairs in such a way that would display the competency demanded of their own globalist system.
>TL;DR
It wasn't a mistake, but it was a disaster in the end. Think of it like a long marriage full of incredible sex and wonderful experiences that just goes completely bad in the last two years.
>>73671040
Oh, and let's not forget. When THE PRESIDENT of said country spoke out about the cancerously unchecked growth of the capitalists' power, they fucking killed him.
>>73671040
NASA at the time was a military imperative, it was somewhat shielded from the retarding effects of needing to be profitable to be worth doing. Still I see what you're saying.
>>73671302
See: >>73671227
Murrica's military is STILL a fat, corporate whore.
>>73671149
>ruling classes
>no kikes
goood goyim
>>73670870
>Mike Judge is a prophet. Things that people considered ridiculous in Idiocracy are coming to pass with lightning speed.
http://www.ifc.com/shows/comedy-bang-bang/blog/2015/03/10-things-idiocracy-got-right-about-the-future
>>73671524
>That Tarrlyton's ad
I am absolutely positive that ad would work in this day and age. I can just imagine how many plebs in my town would be gossiping about how "cool" that ad was. I think even when Idiocracy came out that would have been considered stupid. Not now. My how the times are changing.
>>73671411
The military of U.S.A. is a giant joke costing us hundreds of billions a year with no return. Since 1945 we have not won a war. Our imperialist policies have barely returned a gain for us politically, strategically, or economically since the Cold War ended. It's a tragedy. We have enough war ships and military installations to frighten the gods on their best day, but no clue how to control the power we have.
>>73671944
The MIC has worked perfectly. It's not SUPPOSED to benefit US. It's supposed to benefit the rich. And it does. In spades. Such are the wages of capitalism.
>>73671944
At least we're still good at sinking trillions of dollars into overpriced equipment, that we will never use the full capabilities of because no real army needs to lift a finger for us to collapse.
>>73653895
Yes, ww3 incoming, get comfy
Not saying that democracy is perfect, but can you name a system that has worked better?
>>73672871
National Socialism. Basically every single time. Funny how NatSoc states always have a habit of being invaded by countries run by jews.
>>73673094
>always
It happened only once and it fell because Hitler became a drug addict cuck and started genociding perfectly good people (ethnic jews and slavs mostly)
>>73673286
Iraq?
>Hitler became a drug addict cuck
Guess which country in the axis didn't do shit?
>started genociding perfectly good people (ethnic jews and slavs mostly)
>jews
>good
Hehe, /pol/ cracks me up.
>>73673419
You can't exactly put in the oven a family of white german citizens running a convenience store just because they are jews and expect everything to be a-ok.
You can't invade a country and expect support after calling its people subhumans.
Memes are funny and i enjoy shitposting myself, but don't be a stormweenie
>>73673634
>Implying
I will agree that the shittalk early on about Slavs was a bit much. But kikes? Get the fuck off my planet, you fucking cancer.
>but don't be a stormweenie
>ACTUALLY USED UNIRONICALLY
God damn I miss 2011.
>>73673800
Jews aren't necessarily zionists
>>73673863
Jews are jews. Liberal jews outside of Israel quickly become Zionist inside.
>>73673930
>Liberal jews outside of Israel quickly become Zionist inside.
Israel is against immigration, islam and letting niggers breed out of control. Instead of taking out of context a few mentally ill jewish obscure professors, look at what Nethayau said about islam and immigration in EU
>>73674069
>Israel is against immigration
Yeah, for Israel.
>>73653895
Democracy doesn't work without proper transparency, freedom of speech and open press.
When we need people like Assange, Snowden or Manning to know what the fuck our leaders are actually doing, there's something very wrong with democracy.
How are people supposed to vote properly under all this secrecy and propaganda.
>>73672060
So then what will happen after our country's eventual and seemingly inevitable collapse? As it stands right now, the United States of America appears to be in an irreversible free fall. The government is poised to eat itself alive, and the working class has radicalized virtually everywhere. Violence is the new norm. Tensions are searing hot. The economy is brittle, and resource strain is still a problem. How will the global elite defend their interests when the vehicle for western imperialism has crushed itself on its own weight?
>>73653895
Women's rights was a mistake.
>>73674766
Well what I predict is that he rich will ATTEMPT an Elysium/Shadowrun/The Time Machine masters over global slaves model where corporations run everything, but I have a feeling it's not going to work out for them like they plan. Everything will collapse into barbarism with a weird mosaic of civility globally and new kingdoms will arise, history repeats itself, people never learn, etc.
>>73674873
Anyone's rights was a mistake.
