Can we all agree that the minimum wage should be raised? Even Trump thinks so.
>>73589081
>no straw
REEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>73589081
Yes but not fucking 15 an hour that's crazy as fuck
>Wearing a body warmer inside
Is McDonalds cheeping out on their heating bill as well?
>>73589081
It should be raised, but not to the point that it destroys jobs.
>McDonalds suit
>>73589081
No, employers should pay employees what they are worth.
>>73589081
>Even Trump thinks so
Trump says that minimum wage should be left up to the states to decide, though he agrees that 7.25 an hour is hard to get by on in most places.
no it should be abolished.
>>73589081
Minimum wage? What's that? The little bottom limit for monthly pay, not being enough to support family, lower than welfare?
>>73589081
Why raising minimum wage, when you can just raise welfare?
>>73589081
You realise Norway doesn't have a minimum wage and we're fine? The problem is the lack of unions who could negotiate better wages, even grocery store clerks have unions here in Norway.
>>73589081
Heck yeah it should that way McDonald's and other fast food places will be replaced by machines and I won't have to deal with those incompetent minimum wage workers that do nothing but mess up my orders
what's funny about this is that all these bernie sanders minions imagine a meeting where some fat jew businessman is taking advantage of poor people and paying them less than they deserve, and the hero government man comes in says stop that, pay them what they deserve! and the jew says oh well i guess i better do as the good man says
in reality what happens is hundreds of thousands of people are either replaced with machines, they lose their job or their job just seizes to exist because the company goes bankrupt overnight and it becomes illegal to hire someone, even if they themselves are willing to work for less than the minimum wage
a reminder to the retarded norwegian that's probably not old enough to vote, we don't have a minimum wage in norway, and we don't need one. if someone offers you less than 15 dollars an hour 99% of people in norway would just say yeah nah would rather just not work
>>73589405
Why change laws then? If you need it you can just found a consumer union, collectively go to fast food, then claim, that your order was messed up by worker, don't pay and dont take the order.
>>73589378
You realise unions were largely responsible for the imposition of wage floors, right anon?
They also led the charge for hourly wage rates rather than productivity wage rates. The fact that they're not quite as buttfuck retarded in sovereign wealth fund land doesn't mean they're sane anywhere else
Minimum wage needs to fuck right off, as do hourly wage rates. They're not as harmful to low wage workers as wage compression but they're damn close
>>73589293
He literally says on 12:25 that he wants to see it increase....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe6NcB5eNGY
>>73589601
Like I'm gonna do all that over a cheeseburger. Just let them be replaced by machines. It's not like anyone who works minimum wage is useful in society anyway
>>73589081
>Can we all agree that the minimum wage should be raised?
No we can't you stupid asshole.
It prices people with lower marginal productivity than what the minimum wage is out of the job market, gives an incentive to work under the table and the hiring illegals over native workers, increases prices, saws the bottom rungs off the income ladder, restructures the economy towards unnecessary automation, and the higher you raise it the worse all of these problems become.
Price. Controls. Do. Not. Work.
Trump is right. It should be a state decision. $15 in California means a hell of a lot less than $15 in Alabama. By extension, it also has a bigger impact on all involved.
>>73589603
You realise unions do whatever the workforce wants them to do or else they lose members?
The fact that your unions created wage floors and hourly rates just means your workforce is retarded. I only work part time due to studying but I have a productivity based salary and people will always prefer that method of earning money because it reflects the hard work they put in. This in return means hourly paid jobs need to raise the salaries to actually get someone working for them.
Don't blame unions for the shit system the workforce in your country wanted.
>>73589751
I remember this interview, with the reporter doing his level best to put words into the Don's mouth.
He says he would like to see an increase,
BUT
he would
RATHER
leave it to the states
Nobody is going to say that they wouldn't want to see people make more money, but when it comes down to policy and pushing actual political decisions, he is for the states making that decision.
Is $15 a lot of money in the US?
>>73590089
>unions do whatever the workforce wants them to do or else they lose members
lol no. unions work with government to corner the market and in many cases your forced to join a union
>>73590000
>quads confirm it
oh shit waddup
>>73589081
Raised to meet living costs of the city. Different per city.
>>73590105
Did you watch the video?
>>73590089
>You realise unions do whatever the workforce wants them to do or else they lose members?
And that was true before we had this man named Franklin Roosevelt come along and gift us with the NLRB, which gives politically connected unions tremendous power and the capacity to force membership into unions whether the employees want to or not.
>>73590222
Do you know what the word "rather" means in that context? Can you google it and get back with me on the definition before we continue?
I'm not really concerned since I'm rich as fuck.
I have a Ferrari.
>>73589081
How about instead of raising minimum wage we find ways to lower the cost of living. So this way even basic jobs can support someone and we wouldn't outsource/automate so many things.
>>73589256
Any price floor destroys jobs anon.
The minimum wage as an idea was designed from the ground up as a means to destroy lowskilled labor jobs that were predominantly held by lower class blacks to force them out of the market so much more expensive Union labor wouldn't have to compete.>>73590089
>You realise unions do whatever the workforce wants them to do or else they lose members
You realise that if you work in a union field that the majority of States force you by law to join said union or you can't work in that field right?
Unions are just superpacs for the Democratic party who's members cannot choose to be in without completely changing their feild of work and have zero say on what the Union does.
It is even worse for public Unions
>>73589081
increasing salaries in a verge of a crisis is not a good idea. it will increase inflation.
>>73590248
Holy shit, just read up on NLRB. So basically the president and the senate gets to choose who controls the unions? That seriously fucked up
Why is it even needed and what keeps people from just creating independent unions?
>>73589359
everyone on miniuuim wage is on welfare n way, gotta raise one.
>>73590331
Enabling states to raise the minimum wage? Basically a green light? He said he wants to see it go up.
>>73589081
>MFW I was talking to a coworker yesterday and she also thinks it screws people making just above $15 and probably results in inflated prices for everything
>MFW she's also Jewish
>>73590463
>Why is it even needed
Because leftism and the slow progression towards Socialism. It serves as a means to allow government to control more of the nation's economy. What do you think progressivism stands for in America?
> and what keeps people from just creating independent unions?
The government
>>73589081
Minimum wage won't be as much of an issue when there arw a surplus of jobs. Pretty sad so many people have grown accustomed to minimum wage slavery that they don't strive beyond it.
>>73589081
nope
>>73590477
>"The states will decide what the minimum wage will be"
>"Oh so he's enabling states to raise it yes!"
Might want to google the word "egocentric" while you're at it, Norway. I'm done biting now.
>>73589081
The minimum wage should be abolished and Trump can go fuck himself.
>>73589177
This
>>73590463
>Why is it even needed and what keeps people from just creating independent unions?
It's "needed" by the Democratic party, as they and the unions have a symbiotic membership. The Democrats force everyone to join the union, and in turn the union will donate hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to Democratic candidates with the money they collect from their mandatory "union dues".
Unions in the united states are essentially an extension of the Democratic party, and they usually fuck over their members (read: serfs) hard.
>>73590477
>Basically a green light?
No because Constitutionally the Federal government has no authority to impose a minimum wage but the States do independently and depending on their own individual Constitutions.
Not that the Federal government cares about what power it is legally appointed
Friendly reminder
First off, raising the minimum wage is a stopgap measure that temporarily helps poor people.
His idea of getting companies to manufacture in America again will not only create lower paying jobs for the average American but it will also create jobs for professionals.
If there are more stable jobs for people to have then the wealth of the average person goes up.
With more wealth comes more buying power and
more buying power means more demand
which means increased supply
which means cheaper goods in the long run.
>>73590674
Unions and the Democratic party(in major cities NYC Chicago Detroit Philly Baltimore Etc) is just an extension of the Mafia as well
>>73590629
He literally said in the video that he wants to raise the minimum wage.
Let those poor fast-food and walmart employees make $15 an hour.
Should increase to $8.50
That's more than enough. $15 is too much
>>73590116
By itself not really but it's insane to give $15/hr to someone flipping burgers. The current minimum wage is $7.25, $15 is over double increase
>>73590742
>wage is a stopgap measure that temporarily helps poor people.
Not really
It very short and narrow terms helps the poor people who don't lose their jobs/aren't able to enter the work force thanks to this price floor.
On a net basis even short term harms the poor.
Saying that is like looking at a small yellow speck on a yuge blue wall through a high powered magnifying glass and saying the wall is yellow
>>73589081
Only if cost of living is mandatorily increased. Why be a cop or firefighter if fast food workers who are bad at their jobs are being paid only a dollar or two less?
>$15/hr
I would work for $15 a day.
>tfw im a recepcionist.
>useless college degree + spanish, english and french
>mfw im a minimum wage slave.
Kids, dont follow your dreams, just be engineers.
>>73589081
Sure.
But it's a token move.
Our minimum wage in Australia is higher.
And we pay fucking tons more for everything except food (I don't know why food is so expensive in America).
But that doesn't even matter since like 8/10's of our paycheck go towards housing.
No because if it's raised then I'll be making minimum wage and I'll be dammed if I make the same as some high school burger flipper. This is simply matter of pride.
>>73590902
>It's time for a little bump
If you actually account for purchasing power the minimum wage hasn't been much different than its relative purchasing power since the mid 60s.
When you see numbers from say the huffpo claiming "it would be like 20$ if it had kept up with inflation".
Well no that isn't true because this number that they used to determine this was cherrypicked from one year where there was an abnormal spike in purchasing power leading to the minimum wage of that one year being a few dollars more than what it was years before and ever since.
>>73589405
They're going to be replaced by machines minimum wage or not.
Just like unions are irrelevant when discussing manufacturing as no American can compete with offshore labor prices.
That's just life.
I don't know what to tell people who rely on those jobs...It's just the way the labor market has changed.
>>73591237
I should add
The purchasing power of the current min wage is more than what it was in the early 90s during a period of great economic growth.
>>73589533
The only people who work for below minimum wage here are illegal immigrants and workers, and the businesses don't do it to stay afloat, they do it to make an absolute killing.
>>73591148
Are you saying the rent is too damn high?
I work minimum wage at mcdonalds and i dont want a higher minimum wage. Its hard enough to find entry level jobs that your parents didnt help you into as it is. Plus anyone who thinks working at mcdonalds is hard is a fucking retard.
Hillary has the best approach: moderate raise pre-announced, then a staged series of hikes over time. You have to boil the frog and allow small business to adapt.
I would also add in the carrot of lowering the corporate tax rate on smaller businesses in order to pay for this.
The more people making more than poverty wages, the less need for dem programz. We can roll these programs back to the same degree we are lowering the small business tax rate, ending small business welfare and getting government out of the way.
>>73589081
6% more or less of the work force works on minimum wage. I don't understand why the wage of 6% of the workers is so important to liberals. Most people don't spend very long in those shitty jobs anyway.
>>73591298
>they do it to make an absolute killing.
Fun fact
In California the times they actually cracked down on illegals in agriculture deporting them and making sure farmers didn't hire new ones these farmers(and farmers are multimillionaires in this country) left their crops in the feild to rot because it would have resulted in less of a financial loss than hiring expensive American labor.
Most of the people who use illegal labor do so because their margins are so thin that the jobs the illegals are doing wouldn't be able to exist if the labor cost were higer.
>>73591470
Not to defend them, but why is their cost of production outside paying Rogelio so high?
This is a largely pointless discussion.
The only way to raise wages on unskilled labor is to limit the labor pool.
This is a truth no one on the left seems to be able to accept.
The arguments on the right are equally as stupid;
>Muh Automation
>Muh Scientific Management
>Muh Offshoring
All of these will occur regardless of wage increases or decreases. A business will always seek to be more efficient and profitable, and automation, taylorism and knowledge transfer will always occur. If you're society is at a point where you can compete with third world labor costs, you've lost.
If they want higher wages, they need to decrease the labor surplus.
The first step would be limiting unskilled migration.
None of them want to do this, and thus, none of them will ever see a meaningful wage raise. Any mandated wage raise by the government without a control on the labor surplus will just result in other areas of the government or economy subsidizing these increases via inflation.
Am I wrong?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXDR6YX801g
>>73591396
That guy actually has a good understanding of why the NYC rent is to damn high which is mostly centered around government rent control laws
http://www.rentistoodamnhigh.org/issues.html?m
>>73591396
kek.
Rent is actually not THAT high in relation to property prices.
Because the government here subsidizes property investment.
If you tenant's rent doesn't cover your mortgage payments, the government covers the gap. So that keeps rent down a TINY BIT to ensure never-empty investment properties.
>it's too hard to get entry level jobs
>the costs of goods and services is too high for poor people to afford
>better raise the minimum wage
Imagine a world where there was no minimum wage so people could compete to get entry level work. Imagine also that this means prices go down. Poor people now able to pay one another for their work and goods rather than being priced out from the start.
Yeah, sounds horrible. Minimum wage shills are ignorant or elitists or both.
>>73589081
As an aside, a leftist would want them to pay more taxes over bumping the min wage, it's where you want all of your money to go anyway.
Raising min wage will not affect much as the artificial prices of your whole economy will just rise with it. your talking about a majority and the economy will simply react to that.
You need to focus on what is too expensive not on helping, say, the property industry keep their prices high while getting maccyD's to foot the bill. This just makes you more of a bitch to them as if you lose your job you are even MORE fucked.
Ultimately you want the community (town/state/nation) to own its own environment/economy.
>>73591470
Most of the people using illegals here are large corporations making insane profits by decreasing their labor costs.
Our agricultural sector is heavily policed.
And our food is cheaper than in the U.S.
Those businesses shouldn't exist, and should be left to rot. If they are only capable of existing by breaking the law, then they aren't really a profitable business to begin with.
>>73591568
Because of the mentality of "I'm to good for this work"
I'm completely serious.
Some illegals actually make more than minimum wage but entitled Americans won't do these jobs period without extremely high wages that cannot actually be paid out
>>73591470
That also just sounds like they are using illegal to shear some extra profits from otherwise unprofitable businesses. They don't really seem to be of any value since they don't provide any value to Americans.
I guess the businesses that service illegals were probably unhappy though.
>>73591686
>it's too hard to get entry level jobs
>the costs of goods and services is too high for poor people to afford
We have a high minimum wage and none of those things apply here.
>>73591860
Here illegals take low paying jobs because it's too risky to hire Australians and risk discovery of your operation.
They mostly take jobs regular Australians would work or still work just in different more heavily monitored companies.
Fuck no.
Bernie Sanders's entire campaign exemplifies why. Since he's failing miserably, and pays the people who work for him $12 an hour, he decided to fire most of his staff to concentrate on California. A big idiot.
Also, it devalues the careers of actual educated folk who have jobs that not many people can do.
>>73591776
>And our food is cheaper than in the U.S.
Your food is also much more heavily subsidized
> If they are only capable of existing by breaking the law, then they aren't really a profitable business to begin with.
This is why big businesses are pushing for the minimum wage because their small business competition will be forced out of the market.
>>73589081
No and this is I will never vote dem.
>>73591916
>>73591976
Look at these two posts and try again.
>>73589177
SPBP
>>73591862
>That also just sounds like they are using illegal to shear some extra profits from otherwise unprofitable businesses
No
Minimum wage was never meant for lazy faggots. It was meant for high-schoolers and college students. But illegal immigrants, inflation, and lazy faggots fucked that up. Standards will surely lower in the US if the minimum wage increases.
>>73590374
It called not buying iphones and air Jordan's for your 7 kids from 4 different baby mamas
We need a true quality wage increase, where the money we already receive is worth more. Not some artificial inflationary wage increase. You can raise the minimum wage to whatever the fuck you want to, any arbitrary number, but if the money isn't worth anything, and cost of living just rises to match the faux wage increase then what was the point? Just because the number is bigger doesn't always mean you are actually making more money.
Stupid lefties don't understand economics and want unemployment to be raised. I thought more of /pol/
>>73592298
crackas dont understand thiugh i gotta give muh tithes to dah church tho shieeeet
>>73592265
You are retarded, minimum wage is meant to imply the minimum livable wage you faggot, it's only more recently that it has become worth shit all, a few decades ago, someone could work minimum wage and actually support themselves. There are a myriad of reasons why that isn't the case anymore, but just saying "Lazy faggots and immigrants" is fucking autistic.
>>73592086
Our food isn't heavily subsidized. The opposite actually. Much less subsidized then the U.S.
But that actually goes to this guys point - >>73591470
Australian farmers are often criticized for selling to large multi-national corporations (the Chinese being a particularly favored target of populist politicians).
But the fact is that only these large corporations, by virtue of owning large lots of multiple farms, can withstand the extremely tight margins on production, which individually owned private farmers can't. Sort of like the Corner Store vs. The Supermarket Chain.
>Small businesses/illegal
Partially true. The most frequent culprits are businesses that contract to large corporations (cleaning) or franchise owners (7/11, Dominoes etc). But large businesses here are stringently opposed to minimum wage laws too.
>>73592208
You say no, but then you also admit the businesses aren't profitable without illegal labor and that the owners are millionaires. It doesn't add up.
>>73592534
>is meant to imply the minimum livable wage you faggot
See
>>73590396
Minimum wage was thought of in America for the same reason it was later adopted in apartheid South Africa
>>73592344
Which is only going to be achieved by doing this >>73591587
This is true going back hundreds of years.
It's what brought Britain out of serfdom.
>>73589081
yep
if people struggle to find ends meet then crime rises
>>73592645
>but then you also admit the businesses aren't profitable without illegal labor and that the owners are millionaires
"Illegal labor"
X party(employee) want to work for a wage that y party(employer) is able to pay.
Party z (government) then tells x and y that "no you can't do that because reasons"
> and that the owners are millionaires.
The vast majority of a farmers wealth is in hard assets such as land and tractors.
Their profits tend to be extremely thin.
> It doesn't add up.
Yes it very easily adds up if you actually take the time to look at the numbers which is why farmers throughout California litteraly left perfectly good crops to rot in the ground instead of paying much higer wages to harvest them because the money simply wasn't there
>>73589405
>m-muh minimum wage jobs will be destroyed by automation if you raise the minimum wage.
Those jobs will be automated wether you have to pay 7.25 a hour or 15 a hour or even 1 dollar a hour. Because buying a Ipad to take orders will be much cheaper then paying wages, wether it's just cents a hour
>>73590116
it amounts to $29000 a year, which is a pretty comfy salary for a young single male
I already make almost this much doing warehouse work.
>>73592598
>But large businesses here are stringently opposed to minimum wage laws too.
To provide more information on this; John Howard (who ruled for 16 years) actually lost the election on this point.
His government wanted to introduce a system allowing employers to negotiate individual contracts with employees. He even tried the last minute compromise of allowing it to only pertain to small business, but it was too late and people wouldn't stand for it.
>>73589081
Yea, except for fast food workers. Those guys are fucking dumb
>>73592857
If the profit is there without having to import illegal labor, than it really wasn't there.
This is like Chinese farmers claiming that to be profitable they need to cut milk with rat poison. If you can't run it at a profit without breaking the law, then it isn't really a profitable business.
We aren't talking about minor corner cutting either. You're literally talking about importing foreign, unregistered illegal aliens to operate the business.
This is just undercutting business that operate legally and is the only reason your unprofitable enterprise exists.
Just like a Chinese grocer selling illegally imported cigarettes and avoiding tax.
>>73593136
>>73592857
I should add the caveat;
We do it without illegal labor in Australia.
And as I said, the result has been private farmers unable to sustain themselves on margins this thin - which has resulted in large amounts of agricultural land falling under the control of other nations (Germany, Switzerland, Korea and China).
Your alternative sees the agricultural land and operations remaining in the U.S., but your land being occupied by illegal immigrants.
I guess you have to decide what is more important.
(many ask why Australian companies don't fulfill these roles - but many of these foreign corporations can sustain lower margins because they own and operate agricultural operations globally, not just in Australia, allowing for even lower margins).
>>73592930
>Those guys are fucking dumb
And? They deserve to at least not starve, right?
>>73593387
They starving now? Fuck off
>>73593356
And further, for the leftists or nationalists;
If we disallow foreign investment in these agricultural operations, guess what happens;
Prices rise. Which suddenly makes that 15 dollars an hour a lot less valuable than it is now. Meaning another minimum wage hike and more inflation.
So...
>>73593136
>If the profit is there without having to import illegal labor, than it really wasn't there.
>arbitrarily make it so you can't make a profit
>huuurrr the profit isn't there
For reference a $15 hike in the minimum wage would put my family's business of 30 years under and we employ 6 people just under that
> Just like a Chinese grocer selling illegally imported cigarettes and avoiding tax.
>artificial cost on a good/service that make said good/service not finicallly able to exist so people avoid the artificial cost to stay in business
That has been the arguments against price controls for litteraly hundreds of years anon.
Going no further than "it's the law" isn't an argument.
If people want to do a job for a wage and be productive it only harms these people that want to work to make their jobs arbitrarily illegal.
Again that is why massive corporations are lobbying for the minimum wage as to kill their competiton and allow for more consolidation of their market share
>>73593470
That's the meme fed to us about the U.S. by the media.
>No medical care
>No food
>Have to sell drugs to survive
I honestly found it shocking when I first went there and would go to poor, welfare dependent neighborhoods, and see more even more money and luxury items circulating than in the public housing areas of Australia or England.
>>73593356
>We do it without illegal labor in Australia.
Because of huge subsidizes which are just hdden cost
>>73589081
Why not just raise it a nickel? Would that really be so bad?
>>73593559
This, thank you. In my line of work it's not uncommon for me to go in to poor people's homes. Never seen a fucking empty fridge or cupboard
>>73593387
absolutely
As it is, regular people who have for some reason been convinced right wing politics are fair, are making up the difference for what corporations refuse to pay for so that poor and uneducated people depending on 20 hours a week at McDonald's for as their livelihood just draw EBT and rent/utilities assistance.
People have been propagandized so much that they volunteer to pay for social stragglers who are upset about the minimum wage, as well as the things damaged by insufficient business regulation and corporate welfare.
>>73590967
>being such a fucking poorfag
>not falling for the STEM meme
20 here, making $50 a day
>>73593470
>They starving now?
It's a way of speaking. I did not meant starve in a literal way, because no one starves in first world countries anymore (except those that want to starve).
But it's undeniable that there is poverty in USA
>>73593559
>No medical care
>No food
>Have to sell drugs to survive
Not in my country. Our media makes USA seems like a dreammy country. Don't forget that the majority of europeans major source od infornmation about USA is Holiwood and USA elections.
>>73593493
>For reference a $15 hike in the minimum wage would put my family's business of 30 years under and we employ 6 people just under that
I don't mean any offense. But if it's an unprofitable business and you can only sustain it by being a criminal...That's not societies fault. Get into a different business.
>Going no further than it's the law
If you removed the laws, you'd still be screwed because than everyone, including people capable of operating profitable businesses in your sector, would not need to adhere to them.
If you can't compete now, despite using unfair advantages, how are you going to compete when the restrictions are lifted from those already doing better than you with the restrictions?
>If people want to do a job for a wage and be productive it only harms these people that want to work to make their jobs arbitrarily illegal.
Border controls aren't arbitrary.
You're literally doing severe damage to your nation because of your desire to continue operating a criminal enterprise because you can't compete in the market place.
Here's the thing;
If we bar illegals, but remove minimum wage, do you think you would still be able to compete?
Since that would be my preferred method of wage control (controlling the immigration faucet)?
If you can't compete without needing to constantly dilute the labor pool (let alone doing it illegally) you're in the wrong business. And you're doing more harm to the nation by remaining in business by damaging it's social cohesion and stability.
>>73589229
Heating and cooling. Typically only lobbies are climate controled well for the customers.
That was since the last time I worked there, which was years ago.
>>73593592
Nope.
We have MUCH lower subsidizes than the U.S.
It's a common complaint of our farmers.
I already explained how we do it above. We operate on much thinner margins (which sees private/individual farmers drive out of business).
Basically our farmers get the shaft, and they're jealous of U.S. farmers who are perceived to be well looked after by their government.
>>73593874
See>>73593710
>>73593559
Fuck if with your ignorant shit, they have iPhones, play stations and full fridges, all of them. Is govt assistance gonna go away with the raise of the min wage? Of course not, so fuck the fuck off
Increase minimum wage but lower hours worked. Literally fuck it, those lazy pieces of shit can't make it past 2 hours of work to begin with.
$30 a day? Fuck it and fuck them. They'll quit within the week.
>>73590000
This man knows his shit. The labour market is equally ruled by the powers of supply and demand. Wage is the price of labour. When you start putting a minimum price on labour it fucks up the free market. You would be better off by restricting the millions of cheap foreign labourers that come into the country in order to prevent a downwards pressure on wages.
>>73591455
Thanks shill
>>73589359
Then you will have welfare vs job problem similar to Finland.
>>73589081
I agree that it should be raised. but only for white males.
>>73594151
Why not just remove wage restrictions and shut your borders to unskilled workers?
McDonald's would end up hiring teenagers because the blacks that work there would go and work as landscapers and get paid a better than living wage because they wouldn't be competing with millions of illegal aliens.
>>73589751
probably per state, which is how it fucking should be. 7 dollars can be stretched out further in north Dakota than in Cali and if you don't understand why then you shouldn't be talking about this subject.
>>73593887
>don't mean any offense. But if it's an unprofitable business and you can only sustain it by being a criminal...That's not societies fault. Get into a different business.
>point
>head
>reverts back to "huur it's the law"
And yes society demanding arbitrary price floors that put people out of business is directly society's fault you daft cunt.
>the rest
>I have no idea what a market equilibrium is
> Border controls aren't arbitrary.
Illegal immigration is a symptom of undue cost on certain feilds just as cigarette smuggling is a symptom of undue cost on cigarettes retard.
If I come into your house and pour sugar on the floor would you spend an indefinite amount of time effort and money endlessly killing the ants that come or clean up the sugar?
Because you're suggesting to endlessly fight off the ants
>>73594243
Because that would be "raycis"
>>73594151
I was raised on programs. I don't know where you're getting any of that. If not for my extended family, we wouldn't even have had new clothes or shoes.
They don't really give you cash. The vast majority of assistance is in discounts, or something like a food card. I think my mom gets something around $7000 a year to live on. And nobody wants that. It's not about "refusing to work".
>>73593727
Exactly. Americans already pay for a higher minimum wage, but trough welfare. That means that tax payers pay for a worker wage because a company doesn't want to.
And the answer by this cretins? To end welfare, wich would send millions and millions to destitute poverty.
People forget that in Weimar republic, after the crash of '29, unemployed that could not receive welfare anymore went in mass to the communist party.
>>73594112
>Fuck if with your ignorant shit, they have iPhones, play stations and full fridges
But they don't have houses, and never will. They are one serious injury away from bankrupcy. They probably know they will not be able to put their kids trough college. But they have a Iphone (wich is literally a strawman), food in fridge, and a playstation, wich puts them in the same level as African lower middle class families.
>>73594420
Get a job you bum
>>73594243
>shut your borders
literally impossible
there are already so many latinos here for so long that they're voting in favor of amnesty to criminal aliens
>>73594506
Your jewish overlords need lower wager workers.
>>73591568
It's just cheap, competitive crops.
America, China, India are MASSS producers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_producing_countries_of_agricultural_commodities
------------------
It's not boutique, specialist, branded and protected items like wine, or a lot of things from Europe that pass through multiple stages before being put to market (we have a lot of Asians coming here to create high value branded whiskey and sake because we are brand creators)
Consumer value is derived, hence the west being berated with sublimated consumer marketing, X will display your value (even with cheap stuff there is a "moral value" and "identity giving value" for creatively inclined hipsters who have an aversion to top down, mainstream prescribed identities).
Other countries can rely on less expensive equipment + cheaper standard of living and lack a culture of identity and entitlement via consumption. They are cheap.
> Notice how China is described as lacking innovation/creativity/being soul-less. They don't have a will/"need" to create/distinguish/consume/identify.
You want your consumer market to have a high value currency and "over-value" themselves, to get the most out of that exchange,
You want your producer market to have low value currency and "under-value" themselves so you get most out of that exchange.
America wants to be both consumer and producer.
>>73594364
>Border controls
>Arbitrary
You realize these arbitrary border controls are the only reason your business can exist right? Otherwise it would cheaper to ship from Mexico and further south.
>Illegal immigration
Is a symptom of poor border control. You take advantage of said poor border control to operate an otherwise unprofitable business.
I'm suggesting you're literally ruining your nation so that you can turn a profit on an otherwise unprofitable business and that you're a criminal enabling other criminals.
You're the one pouring sugar on the floor. You're opening an otherwise unprofitable business and creating a demand for illegal labor to sneak into your country and work there.
>I want border restrictions on agricultural imports so my business can sustain itself
>But not on labor so I can sustain myself
>>73594506
Then enjoy the steady decline of your nation to the bottom.
Brazil 2.0
>>73589751
who is this guy? This guy always cuts people off to ask another question and it's clear he does not care at all what people are saying. it's infuriating to watch.
>>73594489
Why should the govt provide their kids with a college degree for nothing? Literally why? Are you a Bernie cuck? Why are you owed anything besides the oppurtunity to earn and live? You admitted that your first argument that they are starving is a straw man, so what is the reason for raising the min wage on stupid fucks like fast food employees? So they can put their kids in college and not be middle class? How is that the govt, no wait, the tax payers responsibility? Fuck me you are so ignorant of the American welfare state
>>73594489
>That means that tax payers pay for a worker wage because a company doesn't have the money to
Fixed
If you eliminate 100% of the compensation of massive companies ceos boards of directors owners etc you wouldn't be able to pay their employees 1$ more an hour.
> crash of '29, unemployed that could not receive welfare anymore went in mass to the communist party.
>heroin addicts who got their heroin taken away flocked to someone promising them heroin
Gee what a surprise
>>73594773
>Why are you owed anything besides the oppurtunity to earn and live?
I assume because he's eligible for the draft and pays taxes.
>raising minimum wage
>welfare
To allow for a stable underclass.
Smaller underclass means more expensive goods and services, a destabilized underclass means violence and crime.
>>73594722
I know : (
It's the only end result of globalism. Ross Perot said in 1992. Our wages plummet and developing nations increase. At some point they equalize, and that final result is only dependent on the world population.
>>73594496
I have a good job and I go to school for STEM. But that makes me an extreme outlier, and you should see a problem with that like I do.
>>73594592
That's why big corporations are lobbying for minimum wage laws huh?
>>73594954
I'm curious on a source for that.
It's the opposite here and in Europe.
They want to move towards across the board individual workplace contracts.
I can see the advantage in it for them, sort of.
>>73589081
>tfw work for the federal government and only make $16/hr
>>73589081
In a perfect world there would be no corporate welfare and a true free market for everything including labor rather than have infinite immigration of cheap labor.
In our world cowards run things. And one thing they know is more people means a bigger economy. So they import the people that help them the most and focus on profiting off it.
So yes it should exist and should be raised. 10.00 probably tied to inflation. True that 15 whatever would bind it back to what it was in the 90s with inflation but lets not push it.
The rest of you hate this the first thing we should do is kick out the whores and true to immunize politics from money. True its impossible but I do believe we can reduce the effect of money on it. Plus make politicians more likely to be held accountable to the people.
>>73594907
Why does raising the min wage mean a smaller underclass
>>73594489
>But they don't have houses, and never will. They are one serious injury away from bankrupcy. They probably know they will not be able to put their kids trough college. But they have a Iphone (wich is literally a strawman), food in fridge, and a playstation, wich puts them in the same level as African lower middle class families.
t. sheltered Alberto Barbosa
As someone who has actually lived in trailer parks and section 8 housing, I can absolutely guarantee that the stereotypes about poor people are true. Most of them are welfare leeches who willfully avoid getting jobs and game the system, would be perfectly capable of living on the current minimum wage if they didn't blow all of their fucking money on alcohol, cigarettes, and grocery shopping at 7-11, and should generally be marched off into gas chambers. And yes, they have tons of opportunities for work, they're just pathologically lazy and entitled so they never even attempt to get those jobs.
I got my first job at a factory for $14 an hour with no experience (and no connections) and I applied myself towards actually getting it by making myself look presentable, speaking professionally and courteously, and committing to hard work and punctuality. There is no fucking excuse for being poor for the vast majority of muh poor little proletariat.
>>73595128
>normative statement on future event
citation needed
>>73589229
Never seen it happen at McDonalds but other fast food places have workers outside working the drive through line to deal with massive amount of customers. This is probably because someone thought it looked good in the shot.
>>73595174
>As someone who has actually lived in trailer parks and section 8 housing
Why would you argue against something that benefited you? Regardless of the general poverty culture, you should know that you're a productive and mobile member of society who came out of the same background. That's a positive effect of social programs.
Instead of increased minimum wage they should limit the amount of money a CEO makes to 40x that of the lowest paid employee.
>>73594672
>You realize these arbitrary border controls are the only reason your business can exist right? Otherwise it would cheaper to ship from Mexico and further south.
That isn't what I said
Re read my post
Price controls are 100% arbitrary and results in various negative symptoms that will exist as long as the controls exist
> Is a symptom of poor border control
Again we can spend trillion of dollars to "kill the ants" or clean up the sugar bringing the ants.
>I'm suggesting you're literally ruining your nation so that you can turn a profit on an otherwise unprofitable business and that you're a criminal enabling other criminals.
And I'm.telling you that doing a job for a wage isn't a crime and arbitrarily making it a crime leads to other symptoms.
> You're opening an otherwise unprofitable business and creating a demand for illegal labor to sneak into your country and work there.
Yes and Japanese people put in concentration camps were the ones pouring sugar on the floor by "being illegal".
Minimum wage should be for entry level positions done by teenagers or as a secondary income.
Bring back good jobs and get people skilled and the minimum wage becomes irrelevent.
It's only in Obama's communist utopia where everyone works three part time jobs at minimum wage that this becomes an issue.
This is what Trump aims to fix. He's only "open" to the issue to get the Bernie voters. Ultimately he thinks its irrelevent in his ideal economy.
>>73595388
Why? If you are a ceo of a company and that company makes a fuck ton, why are you not entitled to that fuck ton?
>>73589229
>cheeping out on their heating bill
odds are he is looking to cover some tats.. work might have a no tat rule but they don't have long sleeve staff shirts. So you end up having to do something like he has on to cover up.
>>73589081
That's fine but my salary should increase as well. It's not one way.
>>73595501
Yes
>>73595501
>Bring back good jobs and get people skilled
How?
>>73595522
because you aren't the only one that helps you make that fuck ton
>>73589081
Government wants employers to:
A. Compete globally.
B. Hire locally.
Raising the minimum wage conflicts with both of the above. Living standards can be raised with other means.
>>73595686
So if they others are not being paid enough why don't they quit and find a new job? Or become entrepreneurs themselves?
>>73595366
>Why would you argue against something that benefited you? Regardless of the general poverty culture, you should know that you're a productive and mobile member of society who came out of the same background. That's a positive effect of social programs.
It didn't benefit me then as my coming out of poverty was independent of my previous living on subsidized housing, and it certainly doesn't help me now seeing as I'm getting the shit taxed out of me to pay for all of the fucking leeches who I used to know.
>>73595683
Isn't it obvious?
We uh kill the Globalization!
>>73595956
If you didn't have a house you wouldn't have got a job. :^)
Minimum wage should be standard at $8 in every state but ONLY because of current inflation numbers
Once Trump gets the economy in line though it should drop back down to $7.25 so that every state can go back to deciding for themselves what is what
>>73595818
How do I do this anon? I need to make a living soon, my current job isn't going to sustain me.
>>73596015
>If you didn't have a house you wouldn't have got a job. :^)
I was actually homeless for a while before moving in as someone's roommate where I slept on the floor for a year while I got my shit sorted out. :^)
>>73595818
wtf are you... mommy and daddy paved your way didn't they.
>>73589081
Worry more about our own country faggot
Both The Labour Party and the Conservatives (two only real options) are letting the "artificial" minimum wage we have tank. When I was 18 and worked a unskilled job, I earned 160 kr/h, which was the average. Now it's completely normal to earn 130-150 for the same jobs.
>>73596123
If you can't find a job that's not our problem. If you are a minority you should have no trouble getting govt assistance
>>73592647
jobs that you can work for full time 60 hours a week and still not pay the rent should not exist
>>73592859
>Those jobs will be automated wether you have to pay 7.25 a hour or 15 a hour or even 1 dollar a hour. Because buying a Ipad to take orders will be much cheaper then paying wages, wether it's just cents a hour
Oh look... a tripfagging Redditor that doesn't understand even the most basic accounting when it comes to costs, or even how a toaster works. How... unsurprising.
I like trying to help liberals learn something, so try to keep up...
A single hypothetical piece of automation costs $100,000 to purchase and another $25,000/yr to maintain. (Because, yes liberal... even the magic machines that you use to post your angry anti-corporate rants break down.)
Hiring Vietnamese children at $1/hr means the cost of the equipment to replace them as workers would be equal to 125,000 operating hours. There are 8760 hours in a year assuming you are operating 24/7. Some maths (which I know you liberal fucks hate since you can't use your feelings...) would show that you have a 14.2 years before you break even.
The equipment isn't expected to even last that long before needing replaced. Like solar, it's a fucking stupid investment. Accounting says hire the Vietnamese children.
You force the Vietnamese children to be paid $15 an hour? Well lookie lookie... the math changes. Instead of paying your workers $8,760 yr they're now owed $131,400 for the same number of hours. That exceeds the cost of automation, and your break-even period is less than a single year! Even a Common Core faggot like yourself can now draw your number line and add the number of boxes and circles to see... it's cheaper to use the robit.
too nigger; can't read - automation still has a cost. When the cost of automation (which can cost tens of millions to set up for complex builds) exceeds the cost of using meathands, you hire the meathands. When the meathands are more expensive than the machines, you use the machines.
>>73596232
No, I live a good life but mostly bc I was lucky in my choosing of a mate, my wife makes way more than me. However without her I could live a comfortable life with only my income and *spoiler* it's a job where you don't need an education, you just need to work hard, and minorities get special preference *spoiler*
>>73596510
Trucker?
>>73589177
In the 1970s with a $2.71 minimum wage, accounting for inflation that's equivalent to ~$14.70 an hour.
$15 is not unreasonable at all. I get paid $18/hrs for a part time job.
This is why we shouldn't leave our economic future in /pol/s hands. You say you want to work to earn your keep, but you have little perspective on the difference between getting fair wages and "muh free stuff."
Supporting the 1% of the 1% is counterproductive toward working toward a better future. Trump knows this.
>>73589081
No, we should eliminate the minimun wage and replace it with basic income.
>>73596607
No, but that their are multiple jobs out there that fit that description helps prove my point
>>73596669
I like that idea, removing all of the bureaucracy around welfare. Also it kind of frees people from the system. But it got to be like really low, just food and enough for basic housing. If you want more, you need to take part in the production.
>>73596479
60 hours a week at federal minimum wage is manageable but not with a social life. That's somewhere around a $850-$900 take home every 2 weeks after taxes. Getting those hours consistently is a long shot.
>>73596662
You may recall (actually you wouldn't because you're probably 17) that the 1970's in America was a period of skyrocketing prices/inflation and chronic high unemployment, something that Keynesians said was literally impossible.
>>73596706
give me a list plz. I might need it for someone
>>73596971
I don't have a list, I just know what I do
>>73596905
Exactly. We are not japan. Automize the shit tier jobs and make more that pays better imo
>>73596479
That is an empty talking point anon.
Also making 0$ a week at zero hours of work is so much superior for these people innit?
>>73597042
okay, what do you do?
>>73596507
these costs are all pulled out of your ass though
replace "automated" with "efficient"
Amazon is going to put so many brick and mortar stores out of business not because of robot Jetsons type labor, but because it has a more efficient business model. This is the way the free market operates. It doesn't matter if there are fleets of robots or tiny blue men performing tasks. The second this business finds a way to maximize productivity and minimize costs, it does so. If it doesn't, another business will and will force the others out of the market.
What Portublack bro was saying, which you can't seem to understand, is that regardless of our decisions regarding regulation or social programs it is always only a matter of time before the same decisions in favor of efficiency happen. When these businesses can manage to pay less than $7.25 and still turn the same profit, they do.
>>73597065
no, but working full time and not being able to move up the social ladder is a serious problem. A problem that america did not have in the 70s or even the 80s
>>73597075
Fine, I'm a cop. Literally any minority kid or poor kid could be a cop if they only have a clean background
Yes. It will encourage automation and technological development, boost the economy, and move more money to those currently need without directly implementing controversial direct wealth redistribution schemes.
It's a reasonable stopgap between the current economy and the reforms that are going to have to happen to ~40 years as human labor becomes broadly obselete.
>>73596510
Let me guess you work in rent to own and your wife is in the medical field. You self admit that you ween off of your wife... you must not have kids yet because then your world is going to implode as you have to take the lead or give up your job to become a stay at home dad.
>there are people.out there right now that unironically believe we should pay 16 year Olds $15 to bring in shopping carts from outside the grocery store.
No wonder there's mass shootings, jeez!
>>73594445
State by state yes but fuck federal minimum wage
>>73597184
>literally anyone could do my job
Do you make more than $8.00 and hour?
>>73597184
>clean background
Actually if you are a minority this doesn't matter as much
>>73597326
Yes
>>73589282
This. People don't buy things because they were made "fairly"(inb4 free range eggs and a few nignog products). And it skewes things in favour of larger companies where employee pay constitutes a larger proportion of running costs.
>>73597118
If you make minimum wage, at 60 hours a week is like 900 a month after taxes, not counting the fact that majority of jobs pay time and a half after 40.
A shitty apartment in a pretty shitty neighborhood would be like ~500 a month
>>73597320
Fuck federal welfare/housing assistance that is worth more where cost of living is higher. If you can't afford to live where you are, you should have to move to a cheaper area.
>>73597465
but labor is a resource like everything else, and the simple truth is that an abundance of people dumps off the value of labor
in the age of globalism, that means that runaway population growth in Kenya is plummeting the value of labor in your home country, which will destroy all of the progress you've made toward decent social mobility thusfar
>>73597184
spotted the shill
>>73597118
>but working full time and not being able to move up the social ladder is a serious problem
This is a nonexistent problem.
Economic mobility hasn't changed in America.
The only people who don't move up have been the same for decades and decades and that is criminals mentally ill people and those who are dependant on welfare which incentivizes staying on a min wage job as to not lose their benefits
>>73597836
Shill for not raising the min wag? Read the thread cuck
>>73597862
>>73597951
maybe, or maybe people need money to get creative
i dunno what the min wage is in america right now but in greece it's 12k a year which don't leave any room for savings/entrepreneurship/kids....
>>73589081
No.
But all fastfood jobs should be replaced by robots.
We need to speed up automation 1000%. I want all these worthless retail and fastfood jobs removed.
I don't get anything out of some tired human handing me a bag and repeating the same words over again "have a good day, thanks for shopping at mcdunalds"
Robots will do just fine. I'd prefer it honestly. No making worthless small talk with often rude people.
>>73598130
No one is talking about Greece but you, faggot
>>73596669
Can you explain why no minimum wage would be ok with basic income? I understand why basic income would be an improvement, but you cant spend to improve the economy, and pay taxes if you're earning $3 an hour.
>>73596809
agreed make sure no republicans think its only a way to make people lazy like they say welfare does.
>>73598262
I checked and in the USA it's 15k which doesn't sound very reasonable to me.
In australia it's 22 and they are fine.
>>73598692
I doubt it, but that doesn't account for govt assistance
>>73590105
>Nobody is going to say that they wouldn't want to see people make more money
Actually he said that, too, when he was pandering to a different group. "Wages are too high."
>>73589751
that ronald's teeth are disgusting
>>73598131
this, we need post scarcity ASAP
maintaining this bullshit notion of keeping everybody employed is ridiculous
>>73589081
$15/hr for everyone. even if they're unemployed.
>>73589751
>literally
>>73590799
>literally
>>73593136
>literally
>>73593887
>literally
>>73594151
>Literally
>>73594489
>literally
>>73594506
>literally
>>73594672
>literally
>>73594773
>Literally
>>73596921
>literally
>>73597184
>Literally
>>73597286
>unironically
Found the red it millennial newfags.
PRO TIP: your language gives you away, e.g., "literally", "problematic", "unironically", and "toxic"
>>73597502
Not to mention housing assistance for cucks who make min wage
>>73598821
how much is government assistance?
>>73599886
Try harder b8 fag
>>73600014
I dunno I'm not degenerate, all I know is poor people want for nothing in this country
>>73592534
Lol extremely livable.
What kind of nigger shit are you buying where you cant pay for rent or food?
>>73589177
This, historically the highest rate was $11 at the height of the US economy in the late 60s.
Having a minimum wage with increases every year to keep up with inflation is completely possible.
>>73594167
Which sadly won't happen.
