So, my liberal friend keeps saying that video games are basically art, so playing 8 hours a day is technically alright. He argues that consumption of video games = consumption of art. Is he right?
Games can be art and some of the smaller ones often are but playing dota or some f2p shit 8 hours a day is not consumption of art.
Battlefield 1 looks like art.
Consumption of art takes at most 1 hour 30 minutes. Your friend needs to get off of the couch
>>73433786
Then what is it? He plays some game where you fly around in space and claims the muh art meme
Games that try to be "art" are always fucking garbage
>>73434004
Source?
>>73434055
You give to much value to the word art, doesn't necessarily mean something is of more value its just a way to describe it.
Here is the rule of thumb, if the game uses data driven design or is altered in any way to increase profits then its artistic integrity is undermined.
They're absolutely an art form; just as you can consider other mediums of entertainment such as music, television, or movies to be their own respective art forms. They don't have to be some pretentious, oh-so-serious piece to be considered art.
On a separate note how can you ridicule someone for consuming a form of media they enjoy when you piss your time away on a Sri Lankan tire manufacturing board?
Go for a walk, see wildflowers.
videogames are just to be lazy with.
>>73434356
Is /pol/ art?
they can be art
just like any other medium
most video games are not art, not even close.
>>73433383
Point out how no one stares at a painting for 8 hours a day.
>>73433383
yes and no.
Video games are the art of everything all placed into one media. The art of storytelling, concept, design, plot, environment, characters, etc etc. But playing CoD isn't an artform really. It's just being addicted to a game. So he's calling it art for the wrong reason. Playing a game is not consuming art. Buying the game is. Playing it is more participating/enjoying it.
>>73434356
>Sri Lankan tire manufacturing board
I love this meme.
>>73434055
It's not Eve is it? If it is then he's actually got a pretty valid case.
not every game is art just like not every retard screaming isnt singung or every menatrual blood on a napkin isnt a painting.
your friend is a fucking idiot i bet he plays muhhh rpgs with muhh gritty graphics anf muhhh nudity for mature people just like myself.
find a better friend who isnt a faggot and who actually appreciates real art.
>>73433383
They can be art.
they're more like visual books in my opinion, and I think we've seen how people can get lost in books
>>73433383
Videogames are not art.
Never were. Never will.
They call all kinds of shit "art" nowadays. You friend is using that bullshit as a cheap excuse to legitimize his lazy lifestyle.
What a stupid fucking thread. Kill yourself.
>>73433383
Here is the definition for you, decide for yourself
the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
Even if you view it as art that does not make it right to spend 8 hours a day consuming it. I think it's alright if you are following a well written story line but we know that most people replay repetitive shit over and over.
>>73434494
I believe that /pol/ can absolutely be considered art. Any created piece can be art whether it's written, illustrated, filmed, or captured in any other way. People place way too much importance on a specific definition of what is to be considered "art" and then shit on anything that doesn't fit their criteria.
That being said I also believe that not all art has a certifiable monetary value. Just because something has been created, doesn't mean its worth something. I think far too many people associate the word "art" with value or other synonyms.
>>73433383
Baking cakes is an art, but that does not excuse eating cake for 8 hours a day.
Your friend is human debris.
>>73433383
they're toys. they use art, they aren't art themselves.
>>73433383
Absolutely.
The first games might not have been very intricate, but neither was the first piece of cinema which was just a filming of a train arriving at a station.
Nowadays, games absolutely are an artform.
>>73433383
I would personally consider all games. I mean most of the things that go into a game are forms of art in their own right so it makes no sense to me that it would suddenly stop being art when put together.
That being said however "consuming art" has no value to society and gives him no value as a person. Even if he starts giving back to society by reviewing or something his value in the oversaturated market for that knowledge base would be minimal.
Eventually he will find that he lives a meaningless life and probably kill himself.
Why don't you just let me have my hobby without it being art or not?
>>73436161
because busybodies have to butt in to everything under the sun and remodel it to their wants and needs
did you think you would get to have fun? tough luck, it's 2016
Being a faggot is also an art.
>>73433383
>my liberal friend
There's your problem.
Liberals will rationalize anything. They're like children except not stomping their feet but using pseudo-intellectualism to rational whatever they WAAANT to do.
Games aren't art. It's at best a fun hobby or something to keep the brain alive, at worst it's just television with buttons. I like games, but I fully acknowledge that it's degenerate and an indulgent I give myself permission to enjoy now and then.
It's fun. If gaming is art, then picking your nose is art.
>>73433383
he's a retard
there are a few games for which this argument can be made, mgs2, silent hill etc but most are just toys
faggots that want to make a big deal of games being seen as legitimate artforms are killing the medium
>>73433383
>video games are basically art
yes, i would agree. please see PlaneScape Torment
>so playing 8 hours a day is technically alright
no. 4 or 5 hours is really pushing the envelope. you need scope in life.
>>73434546
Some people do. But paintings dont tend to be too interactive.
Games are art. Playing them 8 hours a day isn't.
>>73433383
People who try to push videogames as art are faggots and usually casuals. I'd rather play Windjammers or KOF than some pretentious hipster art shit.
>>73433383
Games aren't art in the same way Movies/Books/etc. are art.
Games are apolitical, a test of human brainpower and problem solving.
Literature and the like is political, stories typically created to push some kind of agenda.
There's been a huge push by faggots recently to make games political so they can greedily taint yet another medium.
>>73434494
Shitposting is an art and /pol/ is my canvas.
Somebody frame that shit.
>>73433383
A medium can be art. To point at a game that lacks depth, and claim that vidya are not art is a bit naive.
Really its a game by game basis and everyone will have their opinions.
Are movies art because films like The Avengers or 50 Shades of Grey exist, or because 2001: A Space Odyssey exist?
To me, games like the Stanley Parable is art. But it only takes 20 mins to complete (2 hours if you want to go through all of the endings). It has some depth and most of all isn't pretentious like a lot of these "art games" that video game media tries to push some times. It, however, still isn't Kubrick-level.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBtX0S2J32Y
>>73433383
thats like saying its ok to do nothing but sit around a museum all day every day
>>73433383
bideo james can be art
but I'm not particularly excited about the near future where there's a vidya section in the some artsy fartsy post modernist museum, or critics universally fellating "oscar bait" games
>>73433383
But as an aside to that obviously vidya compliments our problem solving skills as well. So in a world where nothing is objectively malleable and all solvents consist of having bucks or brains physicality is only ever emulated virtually as a problem solver for our need to physically solve dilemmas. Of course innawoods and other fringe lifestyles provide the use of physicality effortlessly. But how many gamers can say they have that opportunity. The woods are thinning and the virtual world is only becoming more encompassing. My mind trembles when I'm faced with the fork in the road of choosing a life without games or a life with a sense of being conned out of physicality for in what in many cases is just a cheap emulated thrill.
>>73433383
No. Creating a video game is art, Consuming it is entertainment. Just like a painting, the artist created if you are the spectator you're the one being entertained, he created art. Video games are merely a new modern medium.
Of course video games are art, but your friend seems to think art implies merit. It doesn't. And thus neither does consuming art.
This is the pleb trap, really. If you want to make a point about art, you need to know what art is. Plebs often try to say "THIS IS ART" when they just want to praise it because they think art implies merit and calling this art means their enjoyment of that thing is suddenly elevated to a higher level.
On the other side of that sime coin, clueless snobby pseudo-plebs try to dismiss and play down things by denying them "art status". They too think art implies merit.
>>73433383
I've always thought of video games as an amalgamation of other artforms... music, visuals, screenplays etc. I always thought there was too much mathematics involved for it to be considered 'art'; based on the coding it's easier to say one game is 'objectively' better than the next. It's definitely a creative thing, though. And I think it keeps your brain more engrossed than just watching TV does.
It's like saying gambling or alcohol consumption is art. It's addictive and has detrimental effects.
>>73434004
Typical burger that has never been outside his own country to see the Louvre, Rijkmuseum etc
>>73434055
Games are media.
You can watch Kubrick or Dear White People. One is art, the other is a propaganda tool.
You can play Planescape Torment or Battlefield. One is art, the other is propaganda tool.
See? Not that hard. It's actually sad that the game companies are fucked by the Jew just as hard as Hollywood, and art isn't made anymore.
The last real game I remember was a Game of Thrones RPG, which was surprisingly better than the shitty series.
>>73433383
Digital physics suggest we live in a virtual simulation, maybe we are discovering our new understanding of reality, and our place in it.
>>73441133
What makes either of those examples art but disqualifies the other?
I'd be very interested in what you think art actually is.
>>73433383
consuming 8 hours of anything but vigorous exercise daily will make you look like OP's pic, including 4chan.
Super Mario 64 is a masterpiece of art imo
The only game I could view as art is Dwarf Fortress, and it is more simulator than game
Also, the (sole) creator gave up on a prosperous career to fullfill his dream and made it free to play. The depth the game has is prett overwhelming
>>73441442
something made with solely an artistic vision and not for commercialism, something that'll never happen for videogames
>>73441442
The "art" allow to do the thinking and encourage you to draw your own conclusions. They just get you emotionally involved by telling you an abstract story.
The other kind tries to feed you conclusions and discourages you from thinking about anything except the game/movie itself.
>>73438643
Do you prefer the Impressionist Desktop works of the oldfag movement or the post-modern mobile renaissance?
>>73441567
Agreed, i miss that little fucker.
>>73433383
Artfags are the cancer killing video games. They are the feminist SJW bloggers calling for games to "grow up" by cutting out anything slightly offensive.
>>73441791
That would disqualify virtually every everything any artist has ever made. They need to eat too.
Michelanglo didn't paint the Sistine Chapel for free you know.
>>73441880
Even if those things are true, how do they related to being art?
>>73441924
Which is ironic because art tends to be a form of expressing oneself
>>73441880
video games dont really experiment with ideas as well as other mediums because the sole purpose with them is to sell big and to garner attention. the same things cannot be said about other mediums.
the closest thing to art in a video game was
>shadow of the colossus
and another one for the ps2 with bright colors and anime design that i forgot the name to
Nobody sane looks at paintings or listens to Beethoven for 8 hours.
>>73441982
the difference with the sistine chapel and video games is the fact that his artistic vision was great in depth, wasn't solely made for profit and would actually be so creative and so different that it can be appreciated for ages
>>73433383
>playing video games
You may as well post anime reaction images on an image board meant for serious political discussion.
>>73442179
other forms of music other than classical are artistic
>>73441791
>Beethoven's symphonies are not art
>>73442054
The same way books are art.
Movies and games are nothing more than expanded dimensions of storytelling.
>>73442138
>video games dont really experiment with ideas as well as other mediums because the sole purpose with them is to sell big and to garner attention.
I guess you are too young and missed the time when "piracy" wasn't a thing and everything was distributed freely, so game companies didn't really expect money in return. The were made for acknowledgment. Even Doom was distributed for free.
>>73442321
But you can't read people's minds. Maybe he just did it for the money. How much do intentions even matter? Would it be a less impressive work if it was purely a commercial effort?
And how is depth a requirement for art? Are you saying a painting of just some pretty flowers or something supposedly shallow isn't art?
Notice how there are a lot of problems if you have a shitty definition of art and then try to make points about what is and isn't art? See >>73440254. You need to know what art is before you can look at what is art.
>>73442544
>The same way books are art.
That doesn't really answer my question. Why do you think "allowing you to do the thinking" and "encouraging you to draw your own conclusions" is some sort of requirement for something to "be art"?
>>73442544
>Movies and games are nothing more than expanded dimensions of storytelling.
andrei tarkovski would like a word, as would kubrick. films are a visual and aural medium. they dont necessarily have to tell a story
>>73433383
video games are absolutely art that being said your friend is a lazy bastard trying to cover for himself
>>73442650
Michelangelo is a very bad example, m8. He may have gotten money for it, but he was a devout Christian, so the money didn't make any difference.
>>73442779
Pretty much yes. That's one of the inherent traits of art.
That's actually the reason the postmodernist fags pass shit in a can for art, because people start thinking the fuck would that mean and start looking for conclusions.
>>73442906
Doesn't matter if you tell a story with picture, letters or emotions. It's still a story. Kubrick and Tarkovsky both have a pretty clear storytelling.
>>73433383
Some games can be considered art. Saying all games are art is retarded though.
>>73442650
maybe you're right, so lets look at the definition
>Art is a diverse range of human activities in creating visual, auditory or performing artifacts – artworks, expressing the author's imaginative or technical skill, intended to be appreciated for their beauty or emotional power.
now video games can definitely be considered art, if the best aspects of video games dont seem like bad copies of already told stories. a video game should be the most immersive medium of all, considering the fact that you're controlling the player and the story, yet it doesn't in respect to movies or films.
>>73442430
You don't listen to any music for 8 hours. If you do, you need help.
>>73443078
movies aren't solely for storytelling, that would immediately cast aside every art-house film made
>>73443316
consecutive or non
>>73433786
Silent Hill 2 is the only game I would consider a definite piece of art. The chemistry between the visual style, music/sound direction, the narrative and the gameplay mechanics is seamless.
>>73443126
care to name some
>>73443078
So what, religious motivations are okay but financial ones aren't. This sure is one convoluted definition.
And you're wron.g It is not an inherent trait of art. An artist painting a portrait of someone who just aims to create something pleasing to the eye resembling reality is still creating art. Being thought-provoking is not something art needs to be and that is very silly.
If you disagree, just give me your definition. What is art?
>>73434055
I'm thinking elite dangerous. That game is really amazing sometimes.
what is art?
>incorporates music, animation, 3d art and also computer programming
>is somehow not art
I wonder what cuck logic leads to people not recognizing video games as art.
>>73443442
yeah the dog ending was real artistic
>>73443126
I's actually the other way round. Saying only some games are art is the retarded move because it has no justification. The only way you could think that is if you confuse art with a label for "good" or "worthwhile".
>>73443632
Expression
>>73443683
I got the "leave" ending so my first impression of the game was fantastic. Sorry you didn't play it right.
>>73443347
Books aren't exclusively for storytelling either. Books are actually at the higher level than movies, because you create the image and the emotion in your head.
The movies have 2 reasons - when the author wants the viewer to see everything exactly as he wants and because of the dumb people, because is only as good as you intelligence and imagination.
You point?
>>73443504
If he was a devout Jew his financial motivations might've been as good as his religious ones.
>An artist painting a portrait of someone who just aims to create something pleasing to the eye resembling reality is still creating art.
It is not. Otherwise one might claim that Turks painting mountains on the walls of the Döner places are creating art.
Actually, explain why painting your wall in black is not art, but the Black Square is art.
Because the black square makes you think and draw conclusions. And that's the difference.
>>73433383
I play games to have fun. If the developer is more concerned about making an interactive movie or some type of art show, then I'm not going to bother with it.
I'm so fucking sick of insecure manchildren hoping to impress their parents of 'S-see games can be mature and deep and stuff!' I don't play videogames for that, I play them to have fun and as a way for me to relax after the daily grind of life.
>>73443654
the fact that there hasn't been a truly unique story in video game history that goes well in depth without some aspect being lost in what makes a videogame a game.
>>73443880
>Books aren't exclusively for storytelling either.
never said that either, you were asserting that movies are for storytelling and i said it wasn't
>>73443880
>Otherwise one might claim that Turks painting mountains on the walls of the Döner places are creating art.
They are.
>explain why painting your wall in black is not art, but the Black Square is art.
Painting your wall black can easily be seen as art.
Also that is one incredibly subjective thing to base a definition around. What makes one think is different from person to person.
>>73444107
>They are.
They are not.
>Painting your wall black can easily be seen as art.
No it can't. It can be seen as a statement, in the best case.
You drawing a well-done reproduction of a painting is not art.
A naked guy covered in shit walking into a police station is art.
Because the first kind of was never anything, but a sophisticated trade, which was killed by the cameras. And the second kind lasts for ages.
>>73443770
in that case I agree with post saying that they can be art but most are not
most videogames are clearly made with a product mindset as something to be enjoyed rather than an expressive medium
thats not a bad thing, infact I encourage it, videogames are my favorite form of media
>>73433383
Video games are an art form, but you wouldn't call every painting "art".
>>73444479
Based on what do you make those distinctions? And don't say "whatever makes you think" again because like I said, that's entirely subjective. Maybe looking at those pretty döner clouds really makes me think.
>>73444496
But they're still expression, even if made by the most soulles company as the most shameless cashgrab.
>>73433383
art vs entertainment
depends on the game. just like movies can be art or entertainment or both
>>73444733
truuu
>>73433383
No, as much as I like them, they aren't art and ghey aren't a sport
>>73444690
>Based on what do you make those distinctions?
the first kind has intellectual or emotional value. It only depicts what it's supposed to depict.
A shit-covered guy in the police station, in the current political climate will have a huge intellectual and emotional response on multiple levels.
First, from the rused cops, who won't know what to do and will appear weak on the camera, second from the readers of the news, where his arrest will land right between the articles of different refugee rapists being released and and third from the internet, because he would be a literal shitskin fighting the police. He will surely be made into a meme and spread and last in ages.
And that's why the first isn't art and the second is.
>>73433383
>consuming instead of producing anything [of value]
Is this not the perfect definition of a nigger?
>>73445182
So what are you saying, having a lasting impact is a requirement for art?
That's silly because it would mean there's no art in the moment. You'd have to wait and see if something "becomes art" because you'd look if the world around it remembers it? You understand how ridiculous that sounds, right?
>>73433383
What kind of friends do you have? I think games are an art too, but that does not excuse someone from staring at a painting for hours on end everyday.
>>73445520
>So what are you saying, having a lasting impact is a requirement for art?
Other way around. An art piece lasts only as long as it's followers and has as much value as they do. Art is a religion in a sense.
No one will be bothered to follow the reproduction painting or the mountains in a Döner place.
And for people to follow something it has to make them respond at the emotional and intellectual level.
>>73445858
Well but that doesn't stop the döner mountains from being art.
To stay with your analogy, a religion is still a religion, even if nobody follows it.
Videogames aren't art. The reason being: games aren't art.
Videogames contain artistic elements, but that does not art make.
Boardgames are not considered art; the board itself is art, however.
>>73445998
A religion is not a religion if no one follows it. It's mythology.
And art no one cares about is not art, it's craft.
>>73433383
>my liberal friend keeps saying that video games are basically art
It's few and far between but this is correct
>so playing 8 hours a day is technically alright.
It does constitute a hobby so again this is correct
>He argues that consumption of video games = consumption of art. Is he right?
Not really, you can't consume art anyway unless you're literally eating food art, games can be great and they are great at keeping your innate bloodlust at bay, but it also detracts from the rest of your life in an unhealthy way because it can become addictive if you let it
Pic related, arguably one of the most redpilled pieces of media produced in the past 25 years
>>73446103
So what, once people stop caring about works that are currently considered great art they turn from art into craft?
Again, silly.
Engaging in any variety of the interactive jew for EIGHT FUCKING HOURS a day is never ok.
I would argue games can be art. I would classify Silent Hill 2 and Killer 7 as art. I would classify D2 on Dreamcast as art, even if I don't necessarily agree with its INCREDIBLY liberal slant its still a work worth experiencing. The meme games too, Deus Ex, Planescape Torment, all qualify I'd argue.
This whole "movement" though is mainly about justifying all the time you wasted jumping on turtles instead of developing useful skills, seems to me.
>>73446044
what's "art"?
some games can be artsy, but not exactly "ART art"
shadow of the colossus, journey, etc
but calladoody, battlefeel, resident evil whatever hell no
>>73446299
Yes, pretty much. Many things considered art now go by the name of craftsmanship. Like swordsmithing or wood carving
>>73440889
>Louvre
Place needs to be bombed just line your country faggot
Be honest guys.
>Is anime art?
>>73433786
First post best post
>>73447003
Mushishi is, rest is degenerate autism
>>73433383
It can be. Stories are art. Music is art. Graphics are art. Dance is art. So yes, games can be art. But it's a bit of a stretch to say that modern warfare is art. It's simply something slapped together.
The best video game art is my favorite video game in the whole world, Chrono Trigger. The composer, Yasunori Mitsuda, had to go to the hospital because he worked himself almost to death, and his harddrive was wiped, so he had to recreate some songs and make new ones.
The artist, Akira Toriyama (Famous for DBZ) contributed a lot. At the end of development, it was a tear jerker, according to the developers, because they were so amazed by work that was put into the game.
For them, it was art. And it tells a beautiful story, both the effort in making it, and the game itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amlR7AKL9jI
>>73447003
Hokuto No Ken/Fist of the North Star is art beyond art.
The animation isn't much to look at, but the soundtrack, writing and character development is god tier.
>>73447003
most anime is derivative so its more or less bad art, it's definitely a artistic expression no less
>>73433383
He's not consuming it because it's art. That's bullshit.
>>73433383
>art www.trumpwallsimulator2017.com
>>73448091
Nah, it was primal once, before the Jews started investing into it and it all turned into neckbeard fest.
Planetes had the best depiction of life in space ever, still not surpassed. Ghost In The Shell was so elaborately done it predicted a lot of things politically and socially, Akira was great, the "specialized" animes abput sports or games were actually educational.
Now it's derivatives of derivatives of derivatives for the sake of shekels.
>>73448487
i liked jin roh and a lot of miyazaki but casual anime is shit and will forever remain shit.
>>73433383
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnuq9PXbywA
this is art
>>73434120
This is pretty much my opinion.
I've always felt that parts that make up a game are often can be art (assets like the textures, sounds, and story) but the game itself is not art. My logic being art is a static experience, a vision of the artist be it fictional or the artist reflecting the beauty of the world, but video games are a dynamic changing experience every time you play.
It's like that old saying, you can never step into the same river twice. But a panting or photo of the river is always the same river. Video games are like that for me.
If some one pissing in a can of beans is art videogames can be art
the question people should be asking is if video games SHOULD be art.
