Is there a red pill image that sums up the independence movement? It seems completely fucking retarded, both financially & culturally, so why does it have such a huge following? Do Scots love the idea of being 40% brown third worlders when Brussels gives them their quota of rapefugees? Or do most of them just think "fuck the english" and have no idea how little influence a country of a few million would have in the EU?
This ugly dyke said she's going to start moving towards the next referendum. I can't see how such contempt for 55% of your population can go without backlash by the press or people. Would no voters get a second referendum if it didn't go in their favour first time?
>>73402188
Fuck off you Orange cunt.
The Union is dead pal and all it is going to give us is jew/nigger controlled London values.
Can't count the number of times I heard London English whites in Edinburgh comment on the lack of diversity in Scotland as if it were a negative thing.
>I do hate the fucking English liberals and toffs that run Scotland and use it as their personal wank rag
Bastards like you support them out of muh union! muh queen billy!
btw proddie here as well before you start with yir fenian shite - you cunts have made me ashamed of my own background - grew up in Kilwinning before you fucking ask.
Fuck your jew run Union
>>73402188
this desu poobreath
>>73403236
>The Union is dead pal and all it is going to give us is jew/nigger controlled London values.
BUT I'd rather have the still warm corpse of the UK than the independent Peoples Republic of Scotland sucking EU cock
>>73403481
>BUT I'd rather have the still warm corpse of the UK
Necrophilia is unhealthy m8
>>73403697
yeah but choking on greasy EU smegma while getting gang raped by Abdullah and Co. aint healthy either
Being a Scot I've thought about this a lot. I believe on of the major factors involved is that Scots historically have never had much to do with international affairs.
The only land border we have ever had is with England and we have always been only the edge of Europe, to out of reach even for the Romans.
Scotland has only been influenced in international affairs for only a little over 100 years now and this may be way Scots as a people act like short sighted, emotionally driven niggers when it comes to politics.
>>73403821
>yeah but choking on greasy EU smegma while getting gang raped by Abdullah and Co. aint healthy either
So the current state of UK then?
Yea this
Or you could have a run down Glasgow neighbourhood with freeeeedon imprinted on it
>>73404346
which is why we have a better chance of leaving the EU as the UK than leaving as Scotland
>>73403236
>Kilwinning
I feel sorry for you.
The "Scottish Nationals" are pro-immigration and pro-EU.
To think that this is the nation of the Empire's muscle.
Looking at them now...How fallen, how changed...
>>73406335
yeah you're right poobreath its a fucking joke a nationalist party full of socialists
>>73403236
Bog Tortter detected.
The fucking Irish potato refugees are responsible for the socialist SNP and English hating.
>>73402188
This is the man who would be in charge of immigration under an "independant" Scotland.
>>73402188
>Would no voters get a second referendum if it didn't go in their favour first time?
If they formed a party and campaigned for the first Scottish election on that basis, yes.
A frequently raised Irony is that if Scottish Labour had done that, they'd be the government of a reintegrating Scotland right now.
>>73402188
>Fuck the English, leave the Union, Fuck Westminster!
>We love you EU/Brussels, please tell us how to best run our country.. no no we don't need democracy.
>Join Shengen, Refugees and migrants welcome! Fuck those Tory cunts and their borders!
This is what Scottish "Nationalists" actually believe.
>>73406335
The SNP wouldn't win elections if it took even the Labour parties "controls on immigration" stance from the last election.
Labour expresses fake concern about immigration - nobody takes them seriously, they're labour.
SNP does so, it verifies the idea that they - and all nationalists - are terrible racist people and they really are just a Scottish BNP, no matter how fucking ridiculous that notion is.
The SNP were anti-common-market, they were attacked as Little Scotlanders who want Scotland to play no part in the world. They moved to 'independence in Europe' and now they're attacked as europhiles.
The SNP actually want to leave the UK, as such they take these positions because it makes political sense (many of their members do genuinely believe it, but from a simple "if you want to win the election..." perspective it makes sense.)
Especially when you remember immigration is only a notable issue in Scotland because it receives the same largely news as England. Scotland is around 95% white and until the last decade or so had a declining population.
Combine this with a political system at Westminster that as content to largely ignore Scotland (especially Blair's fault.) and the rise of the SNP and support for independence is remarkably easy to understand from a political perspective even when you don't support it.
>>73406907
lel
100% proddie Scottish, Orange arse
Been to more Gers matches as a wean than you'd had boiled cabbage. I know exactly what the staunch think as I used to be one of them
What was the chant again?
ah yes..
>I'd rather be a darkie than a Tim
My own people had become race traitor cucks
SNP lead the way!
>>73407224
This wasn't the SNP position set out in the white paper at all.
>They have multiple English MSPs and MPs, but do hate the union and Westminster. [they're civic "nationalists" instead of ethnic - English born, love Scotland and want independence? fine by them.]
>They're already in the EU underneath the UK. They are the EU's slave's slave. This isn't as illogical as it seems - even with the anti-democratic components of the EU Scotland would have far more self control outside the UK and in the EU than inside the UK and in the EU.
>SNP had no intention of joining Shengen, Scotland's hardly an appealing place for migrants/refugees anyway, and again their preferred border policy was to join the UK-Ireland Common Travel Area.
That is what Scottish 'nationalists' [really more independence-ists] actually believe.
>>73407707
At least you retards are losing ground. Hopefully you will be out of the EU and devolved and you can STFU about another indyref.
The Scotland you uneducated retarded think will happen after independence is too scary to be funny.
>>73408274
>Scotland's hardly an appealing place for migrants/refugees anyway
Oh please... a socialist welfare state with open borders that speaks English? It will be a magnet for shitskins.
>>73408981
We Muslims own the UK, and we out breed you pink savages, for Allah wills it :^)
>>73409461
It certainly looks that way. Muslims must find liberalism hilarious.
>>73408981
>At least you retards are losing ground.
Increased their vote since the 2011 Holyrood elections
>>73409461
Having four 11yo brides will certainly boost your population.
>you will never be able to live north of 45 latitude without massive medical intervention, dusky boy
>>73402188
>Would no voters get a second referendum if it didn't go in their favour first time?
No would win again, they'd keep pressing for more referendums until they got the "right" result though.
Scotland is fucking dead, if you look at the new births, something like 30-40% are non-British.
So in ~50 years that will be reflected in the general population, there's nothing we can do about it without deporting shits born here.
>>73410496
I think OP meant if it was a yes vote in 2014 and No voters wanted a second indy vote, would they get it? and the answer is no.
Also
>if you look at the new births, something like 30-40% are non-British.
The majority of new births in my area are female. So all you need to do is look on the /pol/ and /b/ catalog to see what that means regarding whiteys future
>>73410021
No longer a Majority in Holyrood as of this election... I wouldn't expect you to now that though as you clearly have no clue whats going on.
Socialist cunt.
>>73410253
Fuck you fuckboi, I'll go north if I please.
>>73402188
would you want to be absorbed by the Englandistan caliphate? This is their only chance to get away and build a wall.
>>73411453
>vote yes
>build wall
>England becomes caliphate
>Accept rapefugees by boat cause still chained to EU
>Scotland becomes caliphate
>>73411453
Don't post in Scottish again until you understand what is going on and what the SNP stands for and why having them in control of immigration is the worst possible outcome imaginable.
>>73411453
wew, leave UK, SNP doubles the Scottish population by importing arabs, SNP taxes middle class whites so high they can't afford children
Scotland is non-Scottish, non-white within 4 generations.
There's no point even arguing with these deluded anglos Scot bros. They're entire understanding of our history and politics is based on meme politics. I blame that smarmy bastard Farage desu, stirring up the dregs of Anglo society in collective ignorance of Scotland.
>>73411048
lel, you're in every thread about Scotland. For anyone who doesnt know, he's a loyalist shill using a Russian proxy. I just assumed he was Scottish, but he makes threads about/brings up Ireland constantly.
>>73411048
>No longer a Majority in Holyrood as of this election...
Entirely because an even more left wing party split their vote on the second ballot.
That isn't relevant in any significant way when it comes to Scottish politics currently. The SNP have more seats than all unionist parties combined, so unless the Greens wanted to commit suicide by voting alongside them to stop a second referendum [which won't happen for various other political reasons partially thanks to the Greens.] it would still pass with green abstention.
The SNP haven't fallen backwards at all - indeed a minority actually gives them various political advantages as the government, they're still powerful enough to do whatever the fuck they want but when they want a cop-out excuse to not do something they can go "oh, we're just a minority, we abandoned this plan to get the Conservatives to help us put through legislation..."
>>73411453
>implying the SNP are going to import a shit tone of "refugees" if Scotland becomes independent
>>73411968
*aren't
>>73411830
>The SNP will govern an independent Scotland for more than one term.
What do you think the single thing that keeps a broad church party of highland small-c conservative romanticists, Student activists, and Glaswegian red-clydeside types together is?
I'll patronize you by explaining that it is independence. Once that is achieved the entire thing comes tumbling down like it's the end of evangelion.
>>73411968
Where is you source for this you thick fucking child? Cant you cunts get it through your heads that the UK as a whole is in the EU, and that most EU migrants are white anyway? If we leave the UK immigration to Scotland is going to remain exactly as it is now. Literally nothing will change. In fact, we'll probably have less, cause its the big English cities that immigrants want to get to.
>>73412219
http://policybase.snp.org/what_is_the_snp_s_response_to_the_refugee_crisis
>>73411048
>Socialist cunt.
lel better than sucking the knob of the English land owning gentry m8
>>73412110
It's cute that you actually believe that the SNP wouldn't embed themselves inside an independent socialist Scotland.
>>73412219
The SNP literally said before the referendum that they wanted to up immigration because the population of Scotland as a whole is ageing
If you can't form your own central bank you're not independent. You're either being run by Westminster (bank of England) or Brussels (European central bank)
>>73412308
The SNP do not control immigration.
Standing in the house of commons and virtue signalling means nothing.
>>73412357
Because the right of the party seriously want socialism. Their small c-conservativism and general centrist triangulation doesn't stem from the right of the party at all. No, it's just a commie trick.
>>73412308
A generic statement of goodwill. Cameron has issued something simmilar. Sturgeon would never pull a Merkel. SNP know that kind of politics isnt popular outside of the Glasgow lefties.
As the poster above me said, Independence is a broad Church.
>>73412514
>The SNP do not control immigration.
But they would in a independent Scotland.
>>73412514
>he thinks that despite everything the SNP says and does, it's secretly right wing
>>73412564
>Sturgeon would never pull a Merkel
but she is demanding more pooskins be brought in.
>>73412627
A call for David Cameron to take action would be meaningless from an independent Scotland.
If Scotland was independent right now, the SNP would say a lot about how they were sending an entire million pounds to help the poor refugees while promising to take some comically low number and playing it up like it was huge.
>>73402188
I was a candidate for the Conservatives in the Scottish election last week and dropped red pills all over the place.
Independence would have been, and still would be, economic oblivion. 'Muh Oil' was only 6% of SNP projections. Imagine you were expecting a £1000 paycheck and you got £60. How fucked are you?
http://www.scottishconservatives.com/2016/03/report-reveals-independence-would-have-cost-1700-each/
>>73412401
The SNP is the most red pilled party in the UK. The know if they say one non system approved thing, the jew will be on them like a ton of bagels
>Only large jew area in Scotland changed its MSP from Labour to Tory.
The jews fucking hate the SNP - how red pilled is that?
>>73412627
Not from Europe, which is were most of our immigration comes from. As I said, the international migrants aren't travelling across the world to settle in the fucking highlands. They're going to the big English cities.
>>73412812
You're right, they're secretly a right wing party despite everything they've ever said or done.
>>73412727
The whole argument falls to pieces when you realise that Independent Scotland would, at this moment, be insolvent to the tune of £15Bn per year. We would be worse than Greece, and begging the EU for entry at the height of the migrant crisis. You can't enact progressive policies in a national depression.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14102424.Autumn_statement__Osborne_goads_SNP_after_revealing_94__drop_in_oil_revenue_forecast/
>>73412816
>Scotland's population being replaced is okay as long as they're from the EU, soon to include Turkey
>>73412727
bullshit
Scotland has all it needs without oil to prosper - as long as we are not being bled dry by England of course.
>>73412816
The SNP have consistently called for a marked increase in non-EU migrants from war torn areas.
>>73412675
It isn't "secretly right wing." It has a substantial red-clydeside element to it. Sturgeon, even, is to the left.
The SNP as a whole is a broad church party of right-wing, centrist, and left-wingers. That's why it's so politically manoeuvrable and successful. It's only unified position is to be the national party of Scotland and to push for independence. That's why it can be the party of holding down council tax (usually disguised in left-wing rhetoric) while attacking Tony Blair for ignoring inequality. That's why the white paper contained a corporation tax cut instead of a lefty promise to up taxes. Because left and right meet in the middle with the single agreement that they need to remain electable and obtain independence, and that once independence comes they can make the case for a Celtic Tiger or a the Nordic model as they see fit.
In the event of independence, that single coherent unifying factor no longer exists and the party will split.
>>73412935
The SNP is the biggest party to lack any kind of "Friends of Israel" group.
(Which is actually pseudo-left wing, given how lefties usually hate Israel in the UK, but that poster was going on about the Jews.)
>>73413021
>get educated
>better widen the goalposts
Yeah no, I didnt say it was okay. You said the SNP would have control of immigration in an independent Scotland. Im saying you're wrong. The EU does.
You should know better than me. Isnt that what Englands always whining about?
>>73413045
If Scotland had gained Independence they would have a £15Bn p.a budget deficit (worse than Greece, Portugal, etc.) which would require growth at over 9% to prevent insolvency. Growth is currently less than 3% and behind the UK average.
>>73403236
>lack of diversity in Scotland
You exactly like the SNP leadership were crying about just a few years ago?
SNP will be the death of Scotland and I'll laugh my ass off as all you retards start wondering where everthign went wrong and realise you can no longer blame the English.
>>73413100
>It's only unified position is to be the national party of Scotland and to push for independence
Exactly
and what is the problem with that?
>>73413100
Show me evidence of there being any right wing influence in the SNP.
What you're doing is wishful thinking.
>>73413045
>Scotland has all it needs without oil to prosper
>we have nothing
>>73411453
There's already a wall between England and Scotland
>>73413269
Yeah, he's delusional. Scotland hasn't returned any money to Westminster in the last two budgets (bar the £354m that they were given and were too incompetent to spend/were keeping* in case 'YES' won)
*By 'keeping' I mean not spending on Scottish services. (£220m of that was for the NHS)
>>73413269
>Show me evidence of there being any right wing influence in the SNP.
You realise what is right wing varies across each country, right? In America it's evangelical values, in Saudi Arabia it's wahabbism. In England it's traditional Toryism. Toryism was never popular in Scotland. It was always a whig/liberal stronghold
>>73413223
>You said the SNP would have control of immigration in an independent Scotland
The only thing the EU does is prevent the SNP from restricting immigration, it does nothing to stop encouraging it, subsidising it and extending it to the whole of Africa.
http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/10.33
>The objective is to increase Scotland’s working age population in order to promote economic growth. It commits the Scottish government to matching “average European (EU15) population growth over the period from 2007 – 2017” and states that an independent Scotland would use immigration as one of the major levers to increase the country’s population.[4]
Work
>>73413269
>we have nothing
Can feed our own population from our own land and seas
Can provide 100% of our energy needs
World class research and University facilities
>uwotm8?
Independence is over now anyway. The SNP don't have a clear manifesto pledge, or the majority to enforce it even if they did.
>>73413518
Give me ANY evidence that there is even a slight concern about socialism within the SNP.
>Toryism was never popular in Scotland
The world didn't start in 1970. The first Tory prime minister was Scottish, Scotland was the home of Toryism.
>>73413230
>you can no longer blame the English.
I blame your cancerous ruling class pal as you should too.
>>73413269
>Show me evidence of there being any right wing influence in the SNP.
Council tax freeze.
Persistent universalism instead of targeting everything on the poor.
Marked reluctance to up taxes. (Watch this space, they may even use the Tories as an excuse to ditch the maintaining-the-45p-rate thing, since that was just an electoral maneuver to avoid looking too right wing compared to Labour.)
Alex Salmond's "Scottish people didn't mind the economic side of Thatcher"
The lingering nickname of "Tartan Tories" [mostly down to dumbfuck Labourites who think everyone but them is literally Hitler, but there's a kernel of truth in their highland vote-base.]
Their general willingness to make concessions to the Scottish Conservatives from 2007-2011, especially when they called the Greens' bluff to do so.
I could go on.
The comparison to Blairism outright is generally a vacuous attack on the SNP, but that's roughly where it falls.
>>73413467
Scotland returning money to Westminster in it's budgets only happened under absolutely retarded Labour governments (who built PFI schools that proceeded to fall down instead of spending the money.)
They weren't "saving money in-case yes won" either, they have to run a surplus by law and overestimated how much would be spent, leaving them with an underspend. It's laughable how much capital the press tried to make out of that.
>>73402188
>Is there a red pill image that sums up the independence movement?
more relevant before the referendum when Salmond was still around, but w/e, just substitute Salmond for SNP.
>>73413696
>or the majority to enforce it even if they did.
Yes they do, unless you believe the Greens would commit political suicide by voting against it when most of their own vote-base is 'yes' voters.
(I don't believe there'll be a referendum until after 2021, if ever, but in numerical terms it's entirely possible.)
>>73413693
>Can feed our own population from our own land and seas
You're insane and have no idea how western capitalism works. We are a consumer nation with a retail culture. Our farm produce is heavily subsidised.
>Can provide 100% of our energy needs
No we can't. Our reliance on the National grid and interconnective energy and communication lines is beyond your comprehension.
>World class research and University facilities
Academic research in this country is funded by external bodies. Even 'Scottish' research houses are subsidiaries of wider institutions (see Leverhume, SGSAH, Dundee's massive Life Sciences investment projects, etc.) Also, due to a lack of graduate contribution we are currently pimping out our places to as many English/non-EU students as we can.
>>73413790
>concern about socialism within the SNP.
Why would there be? What socialist party do they have to fear?
Labour are dead. The Conservatives and Lib-Dems aren't socialist.
The Greens? Are there really enough student activists to pose a threat to the SNP?
>>73413045
Lol typical scot, "muh northern sea oil" it's owned by Chinise, Russians and Americans. Also, your oil fields are near depletion so have fun with that you inbred gingers.
Most of the pro-independence people I know are also wanting to leave the EU. I think it's more an SNP thing than anything else.
>>73413693
>Can feed our own population from our own land and seas
No we can't, we haven't been able to since before even the corn laws.
>Can provide 100% of our energy needs
No we can't, we can barely afford the renewables we currently have (which need replaced every 5-15 years)
>World class research and University facilities
Which are slipping in standards with fewer and fewer Scottish staff in them as each year passes.
>>73413924
>Council tax freeze
Your evidence is that they didn't increase already high taxes. g1
>>73413999
>Also, due to a lack of graduate contribution we are currently pimping out our places to as many English/non-EU students as we can
>mfw Alex Salmond trying to claim that English students would still have to pay full fees to Scottish unis if Scotland became independent
The Scottish simply seek to be dominated.
Before England they had France. Now that they have had the UK for a while, now that the rest of the UK wants to leave the EU they see it as an ideal chance to be ruled by someone else.
Same mentality to the eastern europeans.
>LOL WE LEFT THE USSR/YUGOSLAVIA LETS CELEBRATE
>Hey lets join that new political, faceless union in which we will have no power
Stupid, backward people need controlling.
all the people i know who are pro independence dont know why they are
its just
>muh yes
>muh snp
>>73414095
So you're saying there is right wing influence yet you can't point to anything other than not increasing already high taxes.
Okay.
The SNP are a far left party regardless of how often you claim they secretly aren't.
>>73414214
Same here the pro indys were
>muh SNP
>muh braveheart
>muh CFC
>muh da says yes
That being said a lot of no voters were
>muh RFC
>muh WATP
>muh da says no
>>73414140
They prevented councils who wanted to increase taxes from doing so.
Incidentally, from some socialists:
https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-e248-THE-SNP-DOESNT-STAND-FOR-SOCIALISM
>>73414316
Give me some examples of their far-leftism then, buddy.
Fuck Wastemonster and English scum. The SNP have done far more for Scotland than any other party. We refuse to capitulate to London and their bullshit.
Independence forever.
>>73414326
>>73414214
Alot of Yes voters seemed to be
>muh hopeful politics
Hopeful politics is all good and well, but it still needs to be grounded in some form of economic reality
>>73411048
>>73409648
>>73408981
>>73407224
>>73406958
>>73406907
Why so many Russians in this thread?
![1366855634340[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/p2LlaL0.jpg "1366855634340[1].jpg")
>>73413986
>tfw Scotland voted against independence
Remember when the "democratic socialist" Labour party warned the far-left SNP would jack up taxes if they won in 2007?
Yeah, that they actually did it and lost the 2011 election, falling to third place, was shocking. I thought it was just Blairite fearmongering. They really were socialists.
>>73414412
Wants to get rid of nuclear weapons.
Against nuclear power, wants wind farms.
Wants 1/5 university students to be chosen because they're poor rather than because of skill.
Wants free tuition and supports lowering test standards.
Wants increased public spending.
Wants more government regulation.
Banned air guns.
I could go on, these are things they've both done and want more of.
I'd happily vote independence if the Scottish people were more right wing instead of being a bunch of socialists.
>>73414954
same here
>>73413999
Shite, just shite
First example - Scotland is a net exporter of energy to England
Second example - All our fossil fuel requirements met from the North Sea
Third example - all basic food stuffs can be produced in Scotland for our population - impossible for the vastly overpopulated England.
Go fuck off you clown
>>73414456
This
>>73415023
>Third example - all basic food stuffs can be produced in Scotland for our population
This hasn't been true for over 100 years.
We wouldn't even be allowed to if we were in the EU.
>>73414864
>Wants to get rid of nuclear weapons.
Primarily virtue signalling. They know the UK is going to maintain them anyway, and most Scots are NIMBY when it comes to nukes. [i.e. pro overall but not in Scotland.], would you want another countries nuclear weapons on your soil?
>Against nuclear power, wants wind farms.
This is more of a token green/nuclear fearmongering position than a left/right issue. This comes down to NIBMY triangulation instead of economic policy. (Remember, also, that Scotland is windy as fuck and that even David Cameron pretended to love renewables before he was elected.)
>Wants 1/5 university students to be chosen because they're poor rather than because of skill.
And they've taken policy steps towards this? Partially granted
>Wants free tuition and supports lowering test standards.
Free tuition is consistently derided as a middle class subsidy. The 'left' want targeted aid only at poor students.
>Wants increased public spending.
In what manner? They're operating on a mostly fixed budget via the block grant and aren't willing to seriously up taxes when they get powers to do so.
>Wants more government regulation.
A pretty meaningless canard. So does Cameron.
>Banned air guns.
Again, this isn't a left/right issue. It comes closer to authoritarian versus Libertarian.
>>73414954
Scottish people aren't socialists, they're like Blairites: They want to wear the red flag while holding down taxes and fiddling with the edges to feel good about themselves.
>>73415430
>This hasn't been true for over 100 years.
Source for that?
Just for meme fun (this serves more to demonstrate how the press sucks Labour's cock than it does demonstrate the SNP "right-wing", they're still centre-left):
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/04/if-you-think-snp-are-left-wing-force-think-again
http://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/13153601.So_what_s_left_wing_about_the_SNP_/
http://labourlist.org/2014/03/a-message-for-ruk-the-snp-is-a-centre-right-party/
http://www.politico.eu/article/scotland-snp-left-wing/
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2014/05/scotching-a-myth-scotland-is-not-as-left-wing-as-you-think-it-is/
http://www.scotsman.com/news/andrew-whitaker-just-how-left-wing-is-the-snp-1-3750174
Incidentally, as a further demonstration of pragmatism and virtue signalling on the part of the SNP, remember how they were strongly anti-NATO until independence looked likely and it became relevant that they join it?
>>73415498
Okay, I'll continue.
Recently passed an act allowing only government approved lobbyists to function.
Made it an offence to remove your child from a state school without state permission.
Recently passed an act which states;
(2)In charging the jury, the judge must advise that—
(a)there can be good reasons why a person against whom a sexual offence is committed might not physically resist the sexual activity, and
(b)an absence of physical resistance does not, therefore, necessarily indicate that an allegation is false.
Recently made a new "Scottish Land Commission" who's stated purpose is to buy things for another commission which already has the power to do that on it's own.
Recently passed an act forcing schools to provide "Gaelic medium primary education".
Included in this act is MORE integration of education under government control.
This is only going back until the 8th of March.
>So does Cameron
He's also left wing.
>>73415848
How about you actually go and read the pieces of legislation that come out of their government rather than reading opinion pieces.
>>73416183
seems pretty good to me
It is already an offence in England to take your kids out of school
Land reform is a must, most of the land of Scotland is owned by 400 INDIVIDUALS
If you think that is acceptable your are a fucking cock sucking tory bastard and I hope you get cancer.
Providing Gaelic education is better than providing Arabic, no?
Grow a brain tory cunt
What's even more amusing is that dumb lefties actually get quite upset at how centrist the SNP is.
http://stv.tv/news/politics/1351101-rise-launches-left-wing-challenge-to-conservative-snp/
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/scotland-blog/2016/may/04/patrick-harvie-scottish-greens-will-push-the-snp-beyond-their-comfort-zone
https://twitter.com/ross_greer/status/608006128102993920 [he's a green MSP]
>>73416183
You seem to be confusing "vaguely authoritarian" with "left wing"
>Recently made a new "Scottish Land Commission" who's stated purpose is to buy things for another commission which already has the power to do that on it's own.
The Greens were remarkably upset that they didn't go far enough on land reform.
>Recently passed an act forcing schools to provide "Gaelic medium primary education".
I'm pretty sure this just builds on the acts of previous Lib-Lab administrations. [who also did road signs, incidentally.] My kids had to go through pointless Gaelic before the SNP had a hope in hell of winning an election.
>Included in this act is MORE integration of education under government control.
As opposed to Labour local authority control? That's centralization, not left wing.
>He's also left wing.
But he's cutting the deficit, he wants less public spending, not more. :^)
>>73416283
How about you learn that "policies I don't like" isn't a sufficient justification to call anyone left-wing, and deciding the entire British political system is made up for far-leftists is a laughably ridiculous thing to do.
But let me put it this way, just for your special snowflake worldview: With David Cameron on the "Far left" and Corbyn on the "Far far left", you'd find the SNP in the middle, leaning towards Cameron while speaking like Corbyn.
>>73416692
First you claim the SNP is secretly right wing.
Then you claim right wing is so ill-defined you can't point me to evidence of it.
Next you claim the SNP isn't left wing.
Then you claim left wing is so ill-defined my examples don't count.
>But he's cutting the deficit, he wants less public spending, not more. :^)
Yes, people can say one thing and do another, something you appear to be unaware of.
>As opposed to Labour
le whataboutisms
Since nobody has posted it yet.
>>73411940
Labour lost ground too. So you're wrong.
>>73417449
>>73417485
Gayboy Mundell is a tory - what is your point?
>>73417133
>First you claim the SNP is secretly right wing.
No, that's your strawman of my position. I said the SNP was a BROAD CHURCH PARTY with both left and right wing support.
>Then you claim right wing is so ill-defined you can't point me to evidence of it.
It's very simply defined: Lower taxes, Lower spending.
>Next you claim the SNP isn't left wing.
They're centre left overall.
>Then you claim left wing is so ill-defined my examples don't count.
Most of your examples aren't "left wing", they're authoritarian, centralizing, or pseudo-populist.
Want an actual left wing policy of the SNP? not passing on the top rate tax cut. That still puts them firmly in the centre of Scottish politics (Right of Greens, Labour, Lib-Dems, Left of Conservatives.)
>something you appear to be unaware of.
The fucking Irony from the guy who thinks Sturgeon actually wants to flood Scotland with refugees saying this.
Are you denying the Conservatives have cut public spending over the last few years?
>le whataboutisms
Not at all. The point was that they're local authorities under the control of other parties. The SNP taking control from them into it's own hands is authoritarian or centralizing, but not left wing.
>>73417400
It should be remembered that while scots answer polls like this, this isn't as extreme as it comes across.
First of all, the rest of the UK is more left wing than you'd think - often polling support for nationalization or tax-rises to support services.
And then you call on them to vote for it, and what happens? The Labour party gets routed.
Seen here: Scots left-wing on the top rate of tax
Election result: Scots butcher the parties that want to up taxes, opposition moves from a high tax party to the lowest-tax party.
>>73417545
I'm wrong about what? Labour died on their arse for being a high-tax unionist party with a wishy-washy appearance on the union and a joke leader.
The most extreme left wing voters broke for the Greens over the SNP.
>>73412564
Sturgeon has paroted Merkel at every point, the constitution and the white paper and the party manifesto are all dedicated to increasing migration to replace and aging population and a commitment to helping "people in need" (of benefits).
FUCKING READ your own parties statements you dumb cunt.
>>73417400
18yo middle class liberal students - wf do you expect?
>>73414120
Proof that none of them know wtf they are voting for with the SNP. Fucking shocking.
>>73417630
>>73417753
Remember, Scotland always has been and always will be multicultural :^)
>>73417449
>30th anniversary of the refugee council
Why did the far left crypto-stalinist SNP cucks create this organization back when they were an unelectable joke begging people to "play the Scottish card" and infighting over gradualism vs fundamentalism?
>>73417588
Labour controlled council again demonstrates the SNP are far left cucks.
Meanwhile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Scotland#Ethnicity
>>73417992
Politics pal - do you even understand it?
>>73412514
The SNP do not control immigration.
Thank fuck. But had independence happened they would. Regardless they manages to shit up Bute, and Galasheils and are all for diluting and volunteering white communities to take migrants.
>>73417753
Comment too boring.
>Click Here
To view the full retardedness of OP.
>>73412311
>Muh class system
Get a fucking job, improve yourself, become the ruling class. Useless benefits collecting tit.
>>73418037
>83.95% Scottish
>good
Try looking at the births rather than the general population if you want a good idea on how things will vary with time.
Remember now, no place for prejudice, Brits out blacks in
>>73417921
Or people are capable of holding nuanced views.
>Vote SNP to make Scotland independent
>Ditch SNP and vote someone else to get out of the EU.
Or even
>Vote SNP to make Scotland independent, believing all the news stories saying it wouldn't be allowed back into the EU.
I'll tell you exactly what people vote for when they vote SNP though - it's not independence, it's a competent centrist government. Labour started appointing utter idiots to the job and lost the perception of competence. The SNP only won when they ditched commitments to tax-rises for public services, etc.
>>73418215
>But had independence happened they would
This rests on a lot of assumptions, including:
The SNP would have won the 2016 elections in an independent Scotland even after the oil price crash
The SNP would have won a majority in such unfavourable circumstances, even though they failed to do so in the ideal conditions we currently see.
People would have wanted to immigrate to a Scotland that, depending on which newspaper stories you believe, would be in a worse economic condition than Greece or Zimbabwe...
That an independent Scotland would be in the EU.
etc, etc.
>>73418161
You're right, they're secretly real ethnic nationalists despite everything they've ever done or said. They're just pretending.
>>73418340
>Removing "Other white british"
And the SNP are the anti-English racists.
>>73418340
Police Scotland remains committed to arresting people that say Nigger and Paki on twitter.
Such heros
>>73418443
If they were real ethnic nationalists, you'd be greetin' about how they're anti-English and you know it.
>>73418457
>Including non-Scots to make Scotland look more Scottish
Why would I believe it to be a good thing if the Scottish population was replaced with Northern Irish, Welsh or English?
>>73418427
>That an independent Scotland would be in the EU.
Every single party in Scotland and every single poll of the population indicates that Scotland would remain in the EU.
Would you please inform yourself of party policies and politicians statements before you formulate a completely incorrect opinion?
>>73418502
The entire UK is like that, it's not a uniquely Scottish thing. You should know that.
>>73418602
Because they're white, and they're going to keep moving here [white flight] if Scotland ditches the SNP for UKIP or something.
>>73418684
They can vote all they bloody want, the story at independence referendum time was that the EU wouldn't fucking take Scotland if you paid it.
Please inform yourself of the geopolitical situation and politicians statements before you make an arse of yourself.
>>73418924
Nice try. Every part was committed to staying regardless of what was said by the EU, and would have and will rejoin at the first opportunity if not accepted automatically.
Here's the tier list lad (Best to worst case scenario)
1 - Britain becomes independent from the EU, Scotland remains a part of Britain
2 - Britain does not leave the EU, Scotland becomes independent and both stay in the EU
3 - Current scenario - Britain does not leave the EU, Scotland remains in Britain
4 - Britain leaves the EU, Scotland becomes independent and rejoins the EU
AKA give us some sovereignty and get yer foreign powers to fuck
>>73418503
This is what happens when you base your views on assumptions rather than evidence.
You've assumed I'd dislike the SNP even if they changed all their policies, just like you've assumed the SNP are secretly a good party but they're just lying to everyone and only you have sussed them out.
You don't have to be anti-English to be an ethnic nationalist. I want the English to be happy in England.
>>73418924
>Because they're white
So? They're still not Scottish.
>the EU wouldn't fucking take Scotland
They said that about Greece too.
They also said they wouldn't add Turkey and that they wouldn't have an EU army.
>>73411687
The russian knows exactly what's up
Americans who support Scottish nationalism are fucking embarassing because they know absolutley nothing about scotland or the SNP.
>>73419208
Best case:
Britain leaves the EU, Scotland stays in the union with fully devolved powers with control over everything except immigration and defense.
Did any of you Scottish lads actually vote on Thursday? I woke up and just had a thought about who I could vote for and decided every party was shite and just left it.
>>73419117
>and would have and will rejoin at the first opportunity if not accepted automatically.
Which "would be very difficult" and "could take years"
Making it irrelevant on independence day, where Scotland is still trying to get in.
If the EU doesn't want you inside as a country, you can't force yourself in. It's a big chunk of land, not a boat full of refugees.
>>73419208
Why no "Britain leaves the EU, Scotland leaves Britain, Scotland leaves the EU"?
Too implausible, or what?
>>73419236
>even if they changed all their policies
And became an unelectable BNP-esque joke, dooming their only reason to exist: procuring independence.
>are secretly a good party but they're just lying to everyone and only you have sussed them out.
That's not my assumption at all.
The SNP are a centre-left social democratic party and masters of political triangulation for the purposes of slowly moving Scotland towards independence. They're Labour with an end-goal, and because they have an end-goal instead of just "make things gooder" they can change policy at a moment's notice. The next budget will be interesting to watch - will they kill their own credibility by increasing taxes, convince Tories to back their token manifesto pledge of "leave it alone", or pretend the Tories bullied them into doing the politically sane thing and cutting them in line with the rUK?
>They said that about Greece too.
Greece lied.
>They also said they wouldn't add Turkey and that they wouldn't have an EU army.
It's yet to happen.
>here's all this evidence it's imminent!
It's yet to happen. When it does, screencap my post and spam it in Brit/pol/ until the cows come home, but until then:
It's yet to happen.
>>73419505
Russia has already had socialism, that's why they know.
>>73411687
based
I propose we form SCOTIP and vow to be free from rUK and free from the EU.
>>73419733
Yeah, anyone with half a brain would avoid the scottish bolshevik party like the plague but even the innocently retarded scots are stupid enough to follow their carrot of "vote for us and we will keep giving you free shit you deserve".
Embarassed to be from here desu
>>73419687
Yeah I left that out because it's a 99.9% certainty that an independent Scotland rejoins the EU. That would definitely be Number 1.
>>73419828
If people took it seriously something like that could be a reasonable electoral force. (People won't, but that's not the point.)
Before the independence referendum surge in membership/support, SNP voters were more Eurosceptic than average.
>>73419687
>And became an unelectable BNP-esque joke, dooming their only reason to exist: procuring independence.
So you're assuming that they're real nationalists without any evidence of it.
>social democratic
So they're eurocommunists, great.
>>73419687
>Which "would be very difficult" and "could take years"
That has to do with Spain saying they would veto in the shadow of Catalan independence. Nothing was certain and many things have happen with the Catalan independence referendum since then. As usual you do not have all the facts and are unaware of the total and absolute commitment of every Scottish party to remain part of the EU post independence.
This is on part with the wanks that have said "fuck the queen, independance now" and not knowing the white paper and the proposed constitution keeps her as head of state.
BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T FUCKING READ IT BEFORE VOTING.
Pure ignorance.
>>73420214
Hes doens't know wtf he's talking about. Typical SNP voter.
As a Scot I am terrified of what the future may hold
I foresee the following:
>UK votes to leave the EU
>Scottish turnout for this vote is relatively poor
>SNP blames English vote for carrying Scotland out of the EU against it's will
>SNP push for second independence vote
>this time the vote YES to leave the UK wins
>Scotland leaves UK
>Scotland joins EU
>Rest of the UK bring annual immigration figures back to a reasonable leave of 30,000 points based system ie austrailia
>Scotland gets hugely cucked by the EU and migrants of europe use Scotland as a doorway to their families living in london, birmingham and the like
>tensions rise between scotland and the rest of the UK
>all the while our scottish landscapes are destroyed with new housing demands and our qt3.14s are pumped full of somalian seed
I want off this wild ride.
>>73420214
>So you're assuming that they're real nationalists without any evidence of it.
No, I'm assuming if they were "real nationalists" they wouldn't be a credible electoral force.
>eurocommunists
Fucking lol.
That some continental communists turned into social-democrats to become electable does not mean that all social-democratic parties are communists.
>>73420249
>As usual you do not have all the facts and are unaware of the total and absolute commitment of every Scottish party to remain part of the EU post independence.
The facts are the EU offered to give a stance for the UK government to better understand the situation by offering a concrete position and were told to go fuck themselves.
The obvious conclusion is that Scotland would've been allowed back in, BUT it was generally used as a line of scaremongering that Scotland wouldn't get back in. It wasn't stated in black and white, so you're basically left with "it's a bluff"
>This is on part with the wanks that have said "fuck the queen, independance now" and not knowing the white paper and the proposed constitution keeps her as head of state.
A referendum on the monarchy is far more likely in an independent Scotland than within the UK, and "Queen saying 'think carefully' = Queen backs no vote" was another one of the dumbfuck headlines.
The white paper also said Scotland would get a currency union - let me guess, you think that's bullshit and that Salmond was wrong to believe they were bluffing?
>>73420354
ты пpaвдa гoвopишь
>>73420680
>leave of 30,000
meant to say level of 30,000
>>73420722
>social-democracy is a rebranding of eurocommunism
>but they're not the same when the SNP does it
They're either social-democrats or they aren't, which is it?
>>73420680
This guy gets it 100%
You can add a few thousand windfarms to help destroy the landscape as well.
What is happening right now with Scotland is seriously of biblical fucking proportions if independence ever becomes a thing again.
>>73420680
This is the literal worst case scenario
Out together or in together
>There are people who seriously think am independent Scotland could exist out of the EU
>>73420923
>rebranding of eurocommunism
Yes, entirely abandoning communism as a goal and embracing neoliberal economic reforms is a "rebranding"
Meanwhile, Labour are still socialists because even though they embraced those reforms wholeheartedly they kept "Democratic Socialist" in their constitution.
They're eternal cucks who have an inferority complex towards the English.
>>73420722
The proposed CONSTITUTION keeps the queen as head of state.
At least pretend you fucking read it you ignorant cunt.
Because fuck England
>>73421057
You can still say "fuck the queen" while accepting on independence day that she'll still be head of state, you fucking idiot.
>>73421052
Why do you keep mentioning labour?
Can't you go two minutes without posting a what-about?
>>73421052
Forgot to also tag on that Social Democracy pre-dates Eurocommunism
>>73420680
Scary prospect. Hopefully in the event of a Brexit, Scottish separatists will pick apart the idiocy of the SNP's desire to leave the UK in favour of the EU.
>>73421173
Say what you like sure, but people who voted yes/snp actually unironically thought they were removing the queen, because they were totally uniformed and uneducated of their own parties policies.
You miss my point.
Please don't vote again.
>>73421208
Because Labour were until recently the closest competition to the SNP in Scottish politics.
How fucking dare I compare one political party to another, from now on I'll act as though the SNP are politically unique and there is no alternative viewpoint whatsoever.
Obviously as it stands SNP are firmly in the centre of all politics, globally, because there is literally no fucking alternative I can point to and say they differ from without "whataboutery", you stupid fucking cunt.
>>73421338
>but people who voted yes/snp actually unironically thought they were removing the queen
[citation beyond anecdotal evidence needed]
>>73421283
At least half don't seem to be aware this is the policy.
People are unironically saying that they will vote Out of EU while still supporting snp/indyref2.
Ignorance of unbelievable proportions.
Can we seriously abolish the Scottish.parliament, its just another layer of parasite politicians inside a glorified local council.
>>73421338
>>73421398
For what it's worth, I don't doubt a substantial section of voters - possibly even the majority - have no fucking idea what they're voting for, but acting like this is a uniquely Yes/SNP problem is ridiculous.
For what anecdotal evidence is worth, I know people who said an independent Scotland couldn't keep the Queen because she's the UK's queen, completely ignorant of Australia, NZ, Canada, etc.
>>73421353
We're talking about the SNP alone, they don't become a good party because you compare them with Labour. Comparing them with Labour doesn't change anything other than redirect questions.
>>73421579
>they don't become a good party because you compare them with Labour
This isn't the point I'm trying to make when I compare them with Labour at all. I'm not trying to make them look good either, I'm stating their policy positions and (initially) their cynical political motives. I didn't even fucking vote for them.
(It also ignores that I've compared them with the Conservatives on Tax frequently. More whataboutery.)
If I can't point to other political parties for some sense of relativity, there's no point having a discussion at all. It's like asking me to paint you a picture on a white canvas using white paint.
So, just answer me this and accept my whataboutery: Are/Were Labour a Eurocommunist party?
Was Tony Blair's Labour a socialist party?
>Whatab-
No, fuck you, I've conceded that. Answer the question.
>>73421572
>uniquely Yes/SNP problem
Ignorance is universal, but SNP voters really take the cake.
Patriots/Nationalists voting for this: >>73420680 As a very likely outcome without realizing, or understanding, or supporting it, due solely out of total mind boggling ignorance to the issues and polices they are voting for.
>>73422029
So, just answer me this and accept my whataboutery: Are/Were Labour a Eurocommunist party?
Was Tony Blair's Labour a socialist party?
Yes, yes. Blair was more sneaky about it though.
>>73422217
The situation demonstrated rests on a lot of assumptions.
For example
>Greens abstain on a second referendum bill or vote for it, even though their stated policy is to bring one about via a citizens initiative.
>UK government grants a second referendum
>SNP actually win a second referendum in these circumstances, even when the case for an independent Scotland remains questionable.
>EU allows Scotland to join
>Rest of the UK is successful in bringing down immigration (Australia's points based system currently lets in a lot more than 30k/year)
>Migrants actually go to Scotland, even though her economy may be a mess and she's in a geographically isolated place.
>Scotland has open borders with the UK in spite of the differing situation, making it useful as a doorway to the UK.
>Scotland engages in large-scale housing construction, and does so in rural areas instead of building more tenements in Glasgow.
I'm not saying none of those things are likely, either. Simply that each one is an assumption. Some are very likely, others less so.
There's always the chance the UK votes to stay in and is taken to have wholeheartedly endorsed the EU, in which case there's no excuse for a referendum in the next parliament anyway.
>>73422927
In those circumstances you're going to believe the SNP were eurocommunist even though they had no ideological basis in it.
(Although large parts of their left-wing are working class Labour defectors.)
>>73423339
>you're going to believe the SNP were eurocommunist
You said it, not me.
I don't really care which brand of socialism they've chosen to call themselves. It all leads in the same direction and it always fails the only difference is how long it takes to fail. It isn't even just economically either.
>>73419656
Yes, Tory.
The least worst desu
>>73419656
Are you me?
>you now remember the conspiracy theory doing the rounds before the Referendum that the reason for David Cameron's visit to Shetland was because oil companies had found a massive oil reserve in the North Sea and workers were being flown off oil rigs so they could wait until after the referendum to start drilling
Never fails to amuse me
>>73424430
You're going to believe they're socialists for wanting higher public spending without any significant nationalizations, etc.
Social Democracy is a fundamentally capitalist ideology. It believes in government intervention to trim the excesses of capitalism, while leaving it free to generate wealth instead of trying to micromanage the entire market as with socialist ideologies.
>>73425826
social democracy is an attempt to install socialism without a revolution
>>73426073
Which is hilarious because without Social Democracy you'd have seen a hell of a lot more revolutions. (To the extent a large amount of social-democratic policy was put forward by small-c conservatives trying to save one off.)
>>73426341
I doubt it, no one actually wants socialism.
>>73404014
>Scots never had much historically to do with international affairs
>Thirty years war
>Hundred years war.
>Nine Years' war
>Auld Alliance with France
Not mentioning Scotland's large part in the British Empire, their efforts in those wars such as the Crimean (the thin red line, etc.), and Scots immigrants in Canada, New Zealand and United States, and individual Scots like Thomas Blake Glover (helped trade relations between Japan and the West), Patrick Gordon was one of Peter the Great of Russia's trusted friends... not to count all the inventions. and shit decisions made due to important people drunk on whisky... we're one of the few countries with an actual national identity.
I'm not an independence shill, nor advocate it, but 0800 come-on-son. Try harder. There's plenty of reasons why we're shit but our back catalog is ace.
>>73426916
Pushed between a rock and a hard place, people will jump at any hope available.
Social democracy puts cushions on the rock. People become afraid to revolt in case the cushions are damaged.
The majority of Scots (50.2%) voted for independence, and were only denied because of Sassenachs like the OP who live in Scotland voting to stay in the union with England.
>>73421042
Damn mane
You are soooo right
We'd end up like this poverty stricken hell hole
I actually voted yes despite the fact I despise the SNP and the majority of the views of the common Scottish nationalist. The only reason it isn't financially viable is the fact our government is stupid with money and spends more than it should because we can, being backed up by England. I figured us cutting loose would bring our government back in to reality and clean their act up when it comes to spending. It would also benefit you englishers somewhat as you'd get shot of us and our flamboyant spendature.
Don't get me wrong, I love the UK its history and what it has accomplished, but something something self determination etc etc. Also I'm pretty sure it's gonna happen no matter what, one day. Might as well get it over with now so that things normalise in the future.
I'd have hoped we continue to keep close ties with the U.K. and have the queen as head of state still, though. I'm a sucker for tradition.
>>73427256
This
most Scots wanted indy
>>73427256
This may be purely anecdotal but ironically all the English people I know that live here (honestly, literally every single one I know) supported independence and votes SNP.
>>73428006
>he's actually serious
>>73428327
i know quite a few who voted Yes - they know England has gone total cuck mode and want no part of it.
>>73428053
>I figured us cutting loose would bring our government back in to reality and clean their act up when it comes to spending.
Or far more likely, Scotland would politically swing to the far left and the SNP would be forced to hand over all those freebies they promised after independence.
>>73428464
I know - worrying isn't it?
I'd like to see someone propose Scotland become a dominion.
Basically all the benefits of independence - even control of defence - but retaining a very strong link with the UK and an excuse to let the UK or Scottish governments save face when they're embarrassingly too dependent on one another.
>>73402188
The argument is difficult to make financial due to the price of oil but there is definitely a strong cultural argument that can be made. This cultural argument is similar to the one that was made for an independent Ireland too. However due to globilisation and the inevitable integration of Europe it's a pointless endevaour, though this might change with Brexit.
>>73428623
Very worrying that there are people who actually believe we'd magically become Iceland.
>>73428572
>the SNP would be forced to hand over all those freebies they promised after independence.
Not noticed any English or Scots No voters hurrying to pay for their free prescriptions...
>>73428522
Nah the ones I know aren't doing it for /pol/ reasons mate, the real world tends not to share our views despite most people here thinking they're the norm. The English people I know did it because they're lefties and want to live in a country where the Tories won't get in to power.
>>73428738
We'd be better off - terrible isn't it?
>>73428628
In a sort of Isle of Man type situation but on a bigger scale? I've thought about this before too but not for very long, I'd need to look more into the specifics of it all.
>>73428892
>>73428892
Nope a lot admit they have moved to Scotland because it is less 'diverse'
>>73429149
Maybe the ones you know. Unless the ones I know are only hiding their power level.
>>73429284
Older types - some retired
>>73428738
>magically become Iceland.
Only idiots believe that on independence day Scotland would suddenly be a Scandinavian Social Democracy.
What rational pro-independence people believe is that Scotland would obtain the ability to build itself into whatever country it wanted. You know, because it would be self-governing on the same level as the Scandinavian countries.
People who believe independence will immediately deliver a given goal are idiots. The point of independence is to deliver power which can then be applied to a goal. Even if you're worse off initially, that power can be far more valuable than the temporary economic damage.
I'm not even writing this as pro-Scottish independence: It applies to the EU as much as to Scotland. If Britain votes to leave the EU and ECHR, it could by all measures pass even stronger human rights legislation and sidestep EU bureaucracy to take in huge numbers of refugees. It won't do it, but it would take on powers that would let it make that choice independently.
>>73429091
I'm thinking more on the model of NZ/Australia when they were still colonies but basically did everything for themselves, although it varies. Some kind of "basically independent but still gets a fancy name" is what I was thinking of, for the very small group of proud-British people who love their British history/heritage/etc but still want a self-governing Scotland. It would be a novel argument.
>>73429547
>Only idiots believe that on independence day Scotland would suddenly be a Scandinavian Social Democracy.
The independence movement had a fuck of a lot of leftists giddy with the idea that they'd take control and turn Scotland into Sweden or something.
>>73429890
>turn Scotland into Sweden or something
As opposed to a branch economy of the fail UK?
how terrible!
>>73430134
Refugees welcome!
>>73430651
I'm fine with that after the level of hatred spewed at Scotland from the Unionists
>>73429890
To a degree it has been SNP policy to push this view, because it offers an actual vision which people are more likely to vote for overall (essentially treating the referendum like an election) when compared to a more dry constitutional discussion.
Though as with everything they do, they talk like they'll build a Nordic economy while their key policy changes were to be a corporation tax cut and expansion of childcare.
You can usually judge pro-independence types by who they vote for.
SNP: Vast majority, contains the smartest pro-independence types for the most part, but also contains the largest segment of the voters meaning a lot of idiots. The broadest intellectual and political-cultural base of the independence movement. Also a reasonable minority of people who don't like independence but nonetheless back the SNP. Generally over-eager to defend Sturgeon when she's pretty mediocre overall - just up against shit competition.
>Green: Appear smarter on average, but mostly pretentious university students who think they played an incredibly important role, easilly as important as the SNP, in encouraging people to support independence. Mostly pseudo-intellectuals. Like to no-platform solidarity. Screams "muh democracy" when told they split votes in Ed Central while claiming SNP list votes were wasted in the same breath.
RISE: Pseudo intellectuals and low-income voters too stupid to understand "The SNP aren't helping you with your dole issues because that's a reserved matter", seriously believe the referendum was rigged (but want to hold another one with no statements on how they'll stop it being rigged again.)
Solidarity: A man who committed perjury and just won't give up. Occasionally quite amusing.
>>73430862
And the Unionist vision for Scotland is what?
Belfast 1986?
>>73430862
>while their key policy changes were to be a corporation tax cut
They sounded a lot like New Labour all over again, promises of increased spending paid for with the revenue of a lightly-regulated capitalist economy, and copying the "Celtic Tiger" policies thrown in too. Of course we know how badly that can end.
>>73431242
As far as I can see most of them just want things to go back to 2003, or even 2011.
i.e. very little vision at all.
