Genuine arguments against Trump? Seems pretty based to be, but it's always good to hear other viewpoints
>>73326443
HES A WHITE MALE
>>73326443
Racist.
All of his companies went bankrupt.
Is a Big Wall street executive.
He talks like a fucking moron.
>>73326443
What's the point? I could present to you a 1000 page book on everything wrong with Trump and you'll either throw some memes at me or just plain ignore it.
This is /pol/ after all.
>>73326768
I am willing to listen if you'll talk. Nobody's perfect but he's not establishment, he's not PC, and he's not globalist. Those three traits together are a shocking rarity.
>>73326443
the only thing that seems genuine that I've seen is his lack of experience in politics and foreign policy
which he can just get a VP for
>>73326594
Of all of them Racist is actually the weakest. Ask any shillary supporter what is actually racist about him and they freeze up. Its hillarious to watch.
>>73326768
>I could present to you a 1000 page book on everything wrong with Trump
I'll be perfectly happy with just one page. Just one. Point out what's wrong with him.
>>73326594
>Racist.
>All of his companies went bankrupt.
>Is a Big Wall street executive.
I like you anon.
He is a pro-tranny supporters, therefore degenerate. Ted Cruz should have won this and kill all trannies.
>>73326443
Some of his opinions are too vague. Better than Hillary though.
![bush-trump-cuts.0[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/BKUe8t8.jpg "bush-trump-cuts.0[1].jpg")
>>73327204
real weebs put next to animu look extra hideous. it's like the 2d emphasizes their real life ugliness
He doesnt believe in climate change and wants to bring back the coal industry. Ahe also said he wants to keep and expand US torture program.
>>73326443
He believes getting multiple vaccine shots at once gives kids autismo.
>>73326867
If you'll listen and not scream shill, I'll bite
1)I don't think he's a conservative. There's no doubt people can change, even drastically and in a short period of time, but I'm not buying it. It got some press after Scalia's death, but has mostly fizzled out. We're looking at replacing 2 Justices, and possibly more if it's two terms. This is very important and will have long-term ramifications
2)Foreign policy. People love to shriek "globalist," especially here, but America definitely has a role to play. And in this area the President has some incredible power in dictating policy. I don't think this is where you can just learn on the job.
3)His supporters. Obviously it's important to separate internet shitposters and real life political activists, but there's a not insignificant overlap. FOr the same reason I deride the cultish Sandernistas, I apply to the Trumpettes. They care far more for the man than the country. They are also incredibly low-information who probably have never even taken a high school civics class. This is not how a republic should be treated.
There's a handful of other issues, but I'm willing to chalk it up to campaign rhetoric, it happens. And the funny thing is that it wouldn't take all that much to get me on board. He's said he will be releasing a shortlist of potential SC nominees, and I look forward to that. And were he to pick a politician who has served in the military or defense committee, or what have you, that would definitely assuage my fears (no, not Webb you idiots).
I don't care if he's not "establishment," a word that has lost all meaning this election. I don't care if he's not "PC," which is an odd claim considering he loves Bruce Jenner. And "globalist" is a ridiculous criticism when there''s the simple fact that America has certain duties to various countries, and vice versa.
I'm hardly one of those NeverTrumps, but he needs to do some more to secure my vote. And it's not even that much.
He's often inconsistent and it comes off like he's making it up as he goes along.
His brand is borderline fraudulent; he portrays himself as an astute businessman when his fortune was built almost entirely on promoting and licensing his name, which isn't the kind of business experience most Americans care about.
The wall is stupid. Most illegals come through overstaying visas or through tunnels, and if thousands of miles of desert doesn't keep the rest out then building a wall in that desert isn't going to either. It's a waste of resources and manpower, and it will be completely useless.
His views on trade are laughably grade-school, and if he starts fucking with our trade policy in the way he's talking about, it will be horrible for the economy.
He's extremely thin skinned and rude to others, generally unlikable, which is a huge detriment when trying to govern and even worse in international relations. This one is under appreciated. Ability to work with others is probably the number one or number two most important quality when governing a republic.
He comes from the elite and entitled class that has been ruining this country.
He's one of the most litigious people in America, and his support and use of eminent domain is tyrannical.
His foreign policy is vague and undeveloped. Something about America being like it was in WWII, but while being openly hostile to our allies. It doesn't really make any sense and he comes across as completely ignorant on the subject.
>>73326443
Hard to find, aren't they? Listen to what Rand Paul had to say about Trump. Personally I disagree with Trump's policy on domestic spying and use of torture.
>>73328357
These are the points that Bush and Cruz made, which are mostly false. The only one that you made that I'm not sure about is
>The wall is stupid. Most illegals come through overstaying visas or through tunnels...
Is that really true? Can you back that up with sources? Also, Trump stated that the wall doesn't need to be built in the thousands of miles of desert.
>>73328357
> this
Bump, because I'd like a response.
>>73328357
>and his support and use of eminent domain is tyrannical
Another major problem I have with Trump that I didn't mention.
I'm a Trump supporter but I rather dislike:
-Disregard for environment
-Saying vaccines cause autism
-pro-NSA
Clinton is still more qualified for the office. An interesting anecdote communicated to me was in how she rarely needed State Department briefs on the internal details when visiting a country. A passionate student, she retained information from one visit to the next and typically knew the political details long before arriving. She got on very well with foreign leaders and worked tirelessly around the world building and rebuilding our relationships. She saw amazing results in places like Myanmar and in our now improved relationships with our key European leaders.
>>73328909
Rubio and Bush attempted to nail him for eminent domain and that but it ended up backfiring. Trump is right: you need eminent domain. The interstate highways you use wouldn't exist without it.
>>73328357
Wow, this made me change my mind.
I am now a #CruzMissile!
>>73328302
>label
>no actual argument on why he's bad
>supporters not the policies
What about doing what OP asked and criticize some of his policies?
>>73329106
>libya
>syria
>yemen
Yeah she's done a great job
>>73327935
What's wrong with coal?
>>73326443
I don't hate him, but I can list off a few concerns.
He represents a trend towards a protectionist, mercantilist economy instead of a free trade one. Some of us - even white conservatives - don't think being white entitles you to a job. You have to earn it.
>his foreign policy is incoherent. He supports the interventions Obama didn't make, but decries those he did. There's no consistency. Less of an issue to me since the economy is more important.
>I doubt he'll cut the size of government or lower the debt, which I consider the two largest threats to the republic.
A president Clinton is another Obama term. A president Trump is not as predictable but I think his intentions are genuine and he wouldn't do anything to damage the Trump "brand". Personally, I'm willing to place my bet on Trump because western nations around the world are being destroyed by liberal governments.
- Supports PATRIOT act / NSA spying
- Has no concept of behaving morally superior to your enemies, which is why he's basically willing to go full ISIS on ISIS (ie intentionally target civilians, use torture even if it doesn't work)
- For some reason he thinks anyone should give a shit about North Korea and Iran, when they literally never even do anything
- The whole lunatic conspiracy shit like vaccines causing autism
Basically his primary flaw is that he thinks anything is justified to combat a threat like ISIS. I don't even give a shit about what he does to shitskins, but those policies also affect citizens, innocent people, etc.
That's all I have. I support him though, because the pros outweight the cons by far.
>>73326443
Stop creating context jew. Kojima exposed your tactics years ago.
>>73328357
This, plus
>his views on libel laws are hilariously anti-free speech
>he opposes net-neutrality
>>73328302
That was very insightful. I suppose I haven't really thought about foreign policy all that much, but I can hope that between good advisors and his deal-making experience things'll be OK.
>>73329366
It provides about 45% of USA's electricity. It's the dirtiest form of energy. The reason why eating fish gives you mercury poisoning is because of all the coal burning. But we can't close the coal power plants until we have an alternative.
>>73326984
SUPER PREDATORS
>>73329466
Why should being non-white boost your chance of getting a job?
>>73327204
From my understanding Iceland is extremely degenerate. How you holding up?
>>73328302
I hear 1 and 3 a lot, so I'll ask you... who cares if he's not "conservative"? And 3 really isn't that true. It's more of a meme pushed by the media.
>>73329599
Thorium when
>>73329545
"""""""""free""""""""" speech
>>73329475
>- Has no concept of behaving morally superior to your enemies, which is why he's basically willing to go full ISIS on ISIS (ie intentionally target civilians, use torture even if it doesn't work)
Did you know that we bombed and killed german civilians like crazy in the 40's?
Fun as fuck tbqh wish i coulda dropped a couple hundred bombs
>>73328357
His fortune comes from construction, not only the brand recognition.
All the others are lies as well, I don't even know how shills come up with this thing.
>>73329545
>he opposes net-neutrality
Net neutrality was passed before the public got a chance to read what the legislation said. A safe default is to be against it until after you have a chance to examine it.
>>73329672
It shouldn't, I dont care what race you are. You get a job based on your qualifications as in a pure meritocracy. Free trade benefits Americans more than it hurts them because it increases wealth and keeps prices low. I don't think it's the responsibility of Americans to lose per capita wealth just to increase employment in dying industries.
>>73329545
>net-neutrality
>because shutting off the internet from countries under ISIS domain is bad
>>73326984
or point out when he said mexicans are rapists.
>>73329964
I don't think we can do that now, and it would be a bad idea to give the government that kind of power. They will SAY that it's to stop child pornography and terrorism, but will use it to stop "hate speech" and "anti-government dissent".
>>73329781
>A: "Trump supports thing that I dislike"
>B: "Did you know we did the thing you dislike in the 1940s, therefore we should do it again."
???????
>>73330084
Never said that
>>73329573
You're retarded
All that faggot said is trump isn't a neocon shill and that America has a foreign policy that is active in the world. Instead of looking at the pretty words next time try and decode them
I support Trump but I wish he would favor cutting spending more, especially for programs like social security and medicare. If he did support cutting those things, he wouldn't be able to say it publucly as it would lose him the election
>>73329781
I've never understood the meme of being morally superior to your enemies. Like who the fuck cares?
If I go into a gun battle with ISIS and I try to be morally superior and say "oh I will only shoot at them if they shoot at me first!" or some other bullshit, then wtf is the point of me even going to fight in the first place? They are going to open fire and blow my brains out. You absolutely have to strike first. Fuck being "morally superior". It's such a crock of shit. Fight dirty. Do what you have to in order to win.
>>73330277
It's the "good guys vs bad guys" dilemma. People don't realize there is no good vs bad.
>>73329301
See, this is what I'm talking about. You claim I'm not addressing OP, but it's you who's not listening to me.
Right now, there's nothing to suggest he'll appoint judges who will adhere to the constitution. It's not a living a document and I want a justice like Roberts and Scalia.
I think he has a very tenuous grasp on the intricacies of politicking on a global stage in the 21st century. You don't just cut your losses and defund NATO. You don't just start trade wars willy nilly with major economic powers.
>>73329696
>who cares if he's not "conservative"
I do. See the points I addressed. His "conservatism" begins and ends with the wall (which I strongly support even though I know fully well it would have little direct impact on illegal immigration)
And I think his supporters is a valid point to address. For the same reason I hated the Paulites in 08 and 12. These are toxic elements that don't belong on the political stage. And, again, I'm not talking about the rowdy, sometimes violent crowds. It's bound to happen when you have 10000 people gathered together. And I don't even think Trump is encouraging such behavior or anything.
It's the low-information voter that I don't like. It's the guy screaming and whining about "stolen delegates" or how Trump deserved the nomination even if he missed 1237. It's literally people not knowing the difference between a majority and a plurality.
>>73329573
Yeah, like I said, it wouldn't take much to get me on board. The Presidency isn't a 1-person job. He gets to select the cabinet, but good people can drastically change policy. He'll learn, but I don't really like the idea of learning on the job for such an important job.
>>73330179
Well argued. Maybe putting it this way is better: war is awful. Humans have rules of war to make it less awful, like banning mustard gas and biological weapons, but it's still ok to pump someone full of lead bullets or blow them up. Seems strange and arbitrary where humans draw the line on what methods of destruction are OK and what are not.
>>73329475
>ie intentionally target civilians
but that is what actual war entails. what we're doing now is far more immoral and protracted
>>73330277
The entire concept of rules of war is a meme, it basically boiks down to "don't kill civilians" even though a civilian one day can be a combatant the next, especially in this era.
>>73326443
He's in favour of mass surveillance, and the Patriot Act in general. He's also wants to go to war wholesale against the Islamic State, rather than pulling out entirely and letting the bastard kill each other.
>>73330651
*bastards
>>73330452
>Right now, there's nothing to suggest he'll appoint judges who will adhere to the constitution.
And there's nothing to suggest that he won't
Everything else in your "argument" is stupid horseshit not worth addressing
>>73330452
>It's the low-information voter that I don't like. It's the guy screaming and whining about "stolen delegates" or how Trump deserved the nomination even if he missed 1237. It's literally people not knowing the difference between a majority and a plurality.
Do you know the definition of insanity?Take your L like a man instead of defending a garbage system and crying a bitch.It's the reason your garbage candidate lost so fucking bad.Give the fuck already.JFC.
>>73331073
His entire argument is that Trump isn't conservatice enough and that people who support him are loud and outspoken
>>73330867
He has supported liberals and their policies for almost half a century. He's said he would publish a list of potential nominees, and I look forward to seeing that. Regarding the constitution, as far as I know he's only addressed the 2nd amendment. There are many more I'd like to see his stances on.
And go ahead and call me stupid, and don't address my points. But this thread is one of those rare ones on /pol/ where there's actual discussion and dialog. I'd really appreciate it if a fucking leaf didn't come in and shit it up. So how's about you fuck right the hell off if you're not going to engage, okay Gordie?
>>73331227
Um, free speech anyone? States rights too
>>73326443
He's not orange enough.
>>73328820
It's not true.
>>73331227
>He has supported liberals and their policies for almost half a century.
So did reagan
>there are many more I'd like to see his stances on
ok
>And go ahead and call me stupid
Thanks for the permission dickhead, im calling you stupid because you wrote about 6 paragraphs across your posts where all you said wae that Trump "isn't conservative"(i think you meant neocon) and that his supporters are dumb meanies.
I'm giving you one last chance to post an actual argument against trump's policy faggot
>>73331073
Oh, hey. It's the Bulgarian who bumped the /cruz/ threads.
A principle tenet of American conservatism, and conservatism is general is an adherence to law and order. You don't just change them because you don't like them. Well, you can, but in a lawful manner. And Trump and the RNC will have the opprtunity to do so if they choose. AFTER the primary process. You don't get to complain and pretend the world is out to get you.
>>73331637
The RNC isn't a government body and it constantly changes it's rules to favor establishment politicians. See: ron paul 2012
>>73330084
ILLEGAL mexicans.
>>73329475
>Has no concept of behaving morally superior to your enemies
thats only a good thing to do when you actually are morally superior and not just pretending to be.
>>73330277
>>73330351
>>73330510
>>73330560
If you are so jaded and apathetic about human suffering then there really is no argument for human rights. Human rights exist to make the lives of humans better. If you don't care about human lives you obviously won't care about human rights.
>>73332046
What major country would you consider to be objectively morally superior to the rest?
>>73331637
>Oh, hey. It's the Bulgarian who bumped the /cruz/ threads.
Oh, so you were one of the 3 Ratto shills?Cool, in that case when are you gotta admit i was right about you candidate getting destroyed and Trump getting to 1237?
>>73332232
Human rights can only exist in a society without a state(and the monopoly of violence that comes with it) and war, since the existence of a governmental body already impedes our human rights by suspending our free will.
>>73332232
Are you so dense that you can't make the distinction between war and peace? With war, comes suffering. That is why it is important to avoid war, but once war happens
DEHUMANIZE YOURSELF AND FACE THE BLOODSHED
>>73332571
I like how casually you type that behind your computer screen. So what would you have us do? No holds barred? Against who?
>>73328820
I believe in Trump's plan to make Mexico pay for the wall he points out that visa over stays are a major source of illegal immigrants I'm not so sure on the tunnels. Even then though just because we can't completely stop something doesn't mean we shouldn't take steps to help decrease it because people still do cross the border illegally.
>>73326768
>I could present to you a 1000 page book on everything wrong with Trump
Fuck off. If you could have, you would have.
Here's your meme, pussy.
>>73333300
Nice digits
Cartels spend millions of dollars on tunnels, they don't let illegals use them. In fact, when they're running drugs, they don't let illegals cross the border on foot.
People oppose Trump because they support Hillary, period. Some of them just dress their closet support up in fake principles. It's transparent.
>>73326443
I hate that he skews left on all his social policies, he's basically what a Democrat looked like 50 years ago.
I was hoping for cruz so the Overton window could be shifted back into the middle as opposed to different shades of left.
As it stands, when your choice is between the most corrupt woman in US political history that lives above the law or a job creating businessman it's pretty black and white unless you're slurping the lefty kool-aid hard.
>>73332540
Government automatically suspends free will? Never heard that one before.
>>73332571
Okay, I guess? You can't really argue about moral opinions. Seems reeeeeaaally sick and twisted to me though.
If you just arbitrarily decide that you are now in a state of war everything is okay. Genocide, mass rape, killing innocent children. B-but it's war guys, it's okay.
Sadly I have to go to sleep due to time zone difference, will still read your replies in the archives.
>>73326443
Boot
licker
>>73333084
If it were up to me, I would avoid war, avoid getting in conflicts that don't involve my country, but once engaged in war there are no bad tactics. I'd have to be willing to make decisions like not telling my own citizens which city buildings will be air striked by the enemy, or sending in thousands of men to protect a bridge knowing that 90% of them are going to die. If torture does actually work, I'd have to be willing to use it. If nuking them would end it quickly, I'd have to consider it, and weigh the lives of their citizens against my soldiers.
>>73333765
Since government is not voluntary, it suspends free will
>>73326443
Proud his daughter converted to Judaism and made Jewish semi-sandnigger babies.
How is this based?
Also basically never addresses nigger crimes, obsessed with Hispanics. Probably raped by Hispanics as a child.
>>73327406
neither are enough in tax cuts, it may seem fair to tax people making 84,800$ a year absurd amounts, but i make around that much and can barely make a living in commiefornia because of the damn taxes
>>73333765
You do whatever you can that will long term cause the least casualties.
If america had to invade Japan millions would have died on both sides as well as forcing an incredibly expensive police state, the nukes on the other hand killed a fraction of that while also completely breaking the countries spirit, now it is one of the USAs biggest allies and trade partners.
>>73333765
>Genocide, mass rape, killing innocent children. B-but it's war guys, it's okay.
It's not OK. It's awful. It's also necessary. I could tell my soldiers not to rape but it's going to happen. I could tell them not to target children but some of the buildings that they'll bomb will have children.
>>73333300
The wall is one of the few things I'm 100% with Trump on. Well, not really. I think WE need to pay for it.
As others and myself have pointed out, a physical wall would do very little to stop illegal immigration. Most come here "legally" and just don't fucking leave. And it would do a lot less to stop the rapists, murderers and drug peddlers that get in.
It's much more important as a symbolic gesture. A nation without borders is no nation at all. With a wall, you're drawing a literal line in the sand, not some limpdicked shit like Obama. "This is our country, and you can't come in unless you follow the law."
I think paying for it ourselves, despite it being expensive is far more meaningful. It's exercising our sovereignty, which has not been done in decades.
>>73330084
no all he said was "somebody is doing the raping" you're the racist for immediately assuming it was mexicans
>>73327935
man made climate change is the ultimate blue pill and is the most illogical pathetic thing in modern politics
thanks for making me autism on climate change leaf shit
>>73326443
THERE ARE NONE DEAR LEADER IS PERFECT IN EVERY WAY!
>>73334119
>Also basically never addresses nigger crimes
>According to Bill O'Reilly, 80% of all the shootings in New York City are blacks
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/342190428675796992
>Sadly, the overwhelming amount of violent crime in our major cities is committed by blacks and hispanics-a tough subject-must be discussed.
>>73326443
NICE b8 m8
Stop giving him opposition research you faggots!
>>73327406
Underrated comment. You faggots talk about being cucks all the time and don't realize you are literally cucks to the top 1%. Give me a break
>>73334702
Everyone is. Gimme mine tho
>>73333342
You shills are so dishonest, so dishonest. You take quotes out of context and tell lies. Sad!
If you did any research you'd know that the first quote is specifically referring to Yellow version, where the Pikachu refuses to evolve. You can trade the Pikachu to Blue and evolve it, then trade it back, but that is simply despicable.
YOU ARE ALL WELCOME https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7I92r9GqUw
>>73334318
And I'll also add that the Wall obviously comes with obvious implications: increased security both at the border and within. We don't need door knocking, but give undocumented folks caught with a speeding ticket 30-60 days to get out or stay permanently in any number of our well furnished penal facilities.
>>73334010
The problem is that many conflicts do involve America. What's happened has happened. Even if you don't agree with it, we have binding ties to various countries.
Let's take Taiwan, for example (a criminally ignored country). We have inextricable ties to them. Hell, they were the "real" China for 20 years. China desperately wants to annex them, but we should just cut and run?
Trump claims to want to project strength. But what strength are you projecting when you abandon your allies? The only thing being projected in cowardice in that scenario.
There's not really an argument against him getting the nomination, if you're a red-blooded American who wants to ensure the integrity of the constitution.
You know that pesky 2nd amendment? The one that protects American citizens from an occupying army in a more effective way than the fucking MILITARY can accomplish? SCOTUS has become such a politically tarnished abomination of a court, it's a 5 FUCKING 9 issue as to whether or not that amendment is still a part of our constitution. The 5th of the 5 died recently, like the obese, Italian fuck he was.
As long as there is a republican congress, there is a barrier between an anti-gun ideologue and that empty chair. A strong, Republican president is the utmost priority to anyone who gives a fuck about this country right now.
Cruz lost because he deserved to fucking lose. He was taking signals from decrepit """strategists""" who think anyone under the age of fucking 45 isn't someone that they need to win over.
Trump has made none of these mistakes. Out of all of the Republican candidates, he has the best shot of going to the white house. Everyone knows this, and that's why he won.
>m-m-muh downtrodden
Fuck off and get out of my country, if you don't like it. You've made it apparent that you don't actually have to live where you are born. I do.
>>73328302
>Wants to build a wall
>leave NAFTA
>force countries to pay for our defense
>ban muslim immigration
>cut taxes
>get rid of epa
>drastically cut government spending (waste and fraud)
>destroy pc culture
>etc
>Isn't "conservative" enough
I don't understand this argument.
>>73334968
>The problem is that many conflicts do involve America.
I'd prefer my tax dollars not be spent to protect foreign countries. If countries like Taiwan want our protection then they should pay for it. I don't like the idea of China invading Taiwan, but I also don't like paying 40% of my earnings in taxes.
>>73329106
>She saw amazing results in places like Myanmar
Myanmar? Myanmar!?!?
>improved relationships with our key European leaders
You mean the European leaders actively working to destroy Western civilization?
>>73334516
>2013
wow good find
>>73329047
He said that 2nd point? Yeesh, I support him to but I also vehemently disagree with him on what you said in your post.
>>73334516
That you have to dig up some old Twitter shit when he never says anything during his 200 rallies proves my point.
>>73326443
http://www.ontheissues.org/Donald_Trump.htm
>>73335543
I just google it.Other people brought it up late last year.In november Trump had tweeted "racist" crime stats again.It was another "campaign ending" moment.
>>73335309
>Wants to build a wall
Good idea.
>leave NAFTA
NAFTA is a major bungle, but you can't just leave it, at least without Congress
>force countries to pay for our defense
A gross oversimplification of foreign policy that's not happening without a period of strict isolationism. I'd be happy to discuss why this is a bad idea
>ban muslim immigration
Temporary, don't misquote your God King. Not necessarily a bad idea and certainly not without precedent.
>cut taxes
Despite wanting to increase entitlement spending? I don't know about that
>get rid of epa
Not a bad idea, and kind of ties into your next point. Cutting their budget is more realistic, but anyway
>drastically cut government spending (waste and fraud)
campaign promise delivered by literally every candidate in my lifetime. I would like specifics, but inherently a correct ideal
>destroy pc culture
As he kowtows to Bruce Jenner taking a shit in his women's bathroom? As he backwalked his correct (but not PC) answer on abortion? Okay.
>>73326443
The only real "argument" the Left has against Trump is that he's a racist and a sexist.
So if he picks Martinez, and she accepts, then the Left will get BTFO and Trump will win on Nov 8.
>>73336162
yes donald pls tax me i love it xd fug america
>>73335938
He tweeted pic related last year.
And every time he is asked about BLM and their cause Trump says that ALL LIVES MATTER and cops are the ones treated horribly.
>>73335334
Okay. So what do we do? That money goes to the DoD, and you want to cut that? Remember, Trump has promised to build up the military (ie increase spending).
Unless/until he clarifies, he's literally proposing a protection racket. That's what the wops do, not Americans.
>>73334516
Is this him agreeing with it or him pointing out how overblown that number sounds? It sounds to me like the latter to be honest.
>>73336470
nah senpai she criticised his immigration policy and NM gives licenses to illegals, he wont pick someone so weak
>>73336675
>https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/342190428675796992
>>Sadly, the overwhelming amount of violent crime in our major cities is committed by blacks and hispanics-a tough subject-must be discussed.
>Sadly, the overwhelming amount of violent crime in our major cities is committed by blacks and hispanics-a tough subject-must be discussed.
>>73328302
>>73330452
>he's not a real conservative
stopped reading right there
read your bible while the priesthood is still rising and kill yourself you rat fucker
>>73336162
Sure I'm oversimplifying. Many of his powers are limited in these areas, but his general political slant is obvious.
Also, he's not going to give specifics regarding spending cuts. That's not how you get votes.
Social issues are the least important part of the presidency. Those changes are typically driven by Congress. We do need good replacement justices, though, based on liberals' use of the Supreme Court to enact laws. Most elections they use social issues to get the female and minority vote.
>>73326511
a very accurate representation of what Blm groups do to white people
His policies are written in a way that I thought only a teenager writes.
>day one we will do this
>on day two they will react like this so I will enact this part of my cunning plan
>day three etc
Does he genuinely believe these decisions are made on timescales of days and hours?
He reeks of naivety.
>>73326511
WHERE THE FUCK WAS THIS ON THE NEWS?
>>73337815
that would be raycis
>>73337409
>Also, he's not going to give specifics regarding spending cuts. That's not how you get votes.
You're right. The problem is that I have very little to fall back on, regarding his history. Most candidates you can look back on their voting history or prior work and say "okay, this guy has done x, some of y, why did he do y?" With Trump, the history I can t do that. All I know is he's given money to both sides and considered Oprah as a running mate in the early 2000s.
>Social issues are the least important part of the presidency
I don't think so. Carson has been a gift this cycle in reintroducing terms that haven't been used for a while. His Alinsky drop was pretty profound. But the Bully Pulpit was also important. The President has profound power outside of his constitutional powers, and can definitely influence social policy.
I know that Trump is a fucking liar about not being a politician (and I don't care, I subscribe to the Cicero school of politicking). But regarding social issues, I think his abortion debate with Matthews was a homerun with Social Conservatives like myself. He said what many pro-lifers have quietly thought: abortionists aren't victims.
Obviously, he had to backtrack and clarify, but that's okay. I really don't like his off-the-cuff manner, but that's the world we live in. And it makes it hard to know what's going on in his head.
But, like I said, it really won't take much for me to get on board. I want to see his SC short list and, if I agree with it, I'll vote for him.
Anyway, thanks for at least engaging.
>>73337644
holy shit that is cringey
>see me after class
>>73328357
Its like CNN is talking.
>made most his money off his brand
Simply not true. He practically colonized Manhattan. Whether you like him or not, he IS a great businessman
>most people (and drugs) come through tunnels or Visas
Again, you just don't know what you're talking about.
>trade policy concerns
A warranted CONCERN, but you're oversimplifying it by writing some protectionism off as "grade school'
>generally unlikeable
By cucked globalist nu-males and feminists? Okay. Most people who meet him like him, the brashness is a bit of a reality TV act, and I think you know that
>le evil 1%
Haha
>le evil eminent domain
Haha
>le bad foreign policy
Absolutely cucked m8. "anti-globalism and anti-war = uninformed"
>>73337644
ur a fucking idiot bud
>>73326443
he has few plans beyond building a wall and massively cutting taxes and trying to use our military as a mafia racketeering scheme.
.. those 3 plans are just not grounded in reality.
The wall won't limit the major sources of illegal immigrants which is people overstaying work visas and student visas. It's not people crossing the border at the Rio Grande anymore, it's college students who just don't go home when they're supposed to. The wall is also not going to stop the drug trade. There is no way to win the war on drugs through a supply side tactic, it's also a completely ignorant thought process on how to handle the heroin/opioid epidemic. Trump thinks we're getting all our opioids from mexico, and thinks it's like the 80's and a peer pressure problem in schools. The current Heroin epidemic is caused by irresponsible doctors overprescribing legal opioid painkillers. The wall will do nothing to help with that. Not to mention that the cartels already use catapults to launch bundles of drugs over any barrier.
The taxes.. oh yes I understand that huge tax cuts seem appealing, but his tax cuts, even when adjusted for how much economic growth they will bring, will add about 1.2 trillion dollars a year of deficit
>but they'll cut spending!
Trump has said he won't cut social security or medicare, and plans on spending MORE on our military. Where's the cuts? Those are the biggest line items.. defense is our biggest discretionary spending item, and social security and medicare are 2/3 of the largest non discretionary spending items (the largest being interest payments on our debt) You're not going to make up $1 trillion dollars a year on "waste and fraud" the numbers just don't add up.
As for making our military into an organized crime syndicate, that's not going to work, it's going to alienate a lot of allies, we're going to lose a lot of overseas bases and the result will be dwindling American influence over the rest of the world.
>>73338648
hot arguments m8
>>73337644
he's like a child. He doesn't communicate plans he communicates desires.
A child says "One day I'm going to be President"
an adult carries out steps to make it happen.
Donald Trump says "we're going to make everything better, it's going to be great".. but without really any good ideas of how to get there, and when he does release his "plans" they're fantasy, not reality.
>>73338504
In general, legislation doesn't really positively influence social behavior. It's best combated by encouraging a positive, prosperous vision. It's hard to win support with conservatism towards social issues because people inherently don't believe that's the role of the government. I think the bully pulpit is useful, however.
Trump wants to pull the military out of many countries, which should save a lot of money. He always hedges these discussions by stating he wants a "strong military" to appease war hawks. This is the tactic he uses for many of his more controversial issues; he immediately counters a negative with a positive statement.
>>73326443
Trump will give Baltic states to Putin
>>73339264
Democrats have been winning elections for years based on muh emotions. It's a stronger appeal for most people than logic.
If you're a logical person, you're probably just going to have to dig deeper to figure out the candidates.
>>73338726
9/10, well said.
>>73338726
>not understanding that the wall is largely symbolic
wew lad
No one wants to hear a 12-point plan on how to end illegal immigration.
>>73339673
>It's best combated by encouraging a positive, prosperous vision
See, I don't believe this. It's somewhat similar to the leftist idea that government "can't legislate morality." Yet this is demonstrably false. Throughout history, government has done exactly this, in fanct it's one of its basic jobs.
Now, in the scope of a US presidential election? You're right, they try to avoid this issue as much as possible during campaign season. But look at Obama. I don't think guns came up much at all during 08 or 12, but we have him talking after any major incident. Clinton being for traditional marriage until recently hasn't come up at all, and probably won't.
>Trump wants to pull the military out of many countries
I want to know which ones. As I've said, we are inextricably linked to certain countries (I used Taiwan as an example). Pax Americana is a very real phenomenon. People will cry "globalist shill," but for the most part, the Western world has benefited from a strong American presence. We simply can't cut and run.
And I guess I'll head this off before it comes up: since the 1980s, America has been remarkably non-interventionist. And I would argue this policy has been absolutely disastrous.
major point people make is that he talks like a 4th grader. people don't have time to understand the intricacies of the political environment so speaking in layman terms is better. i'm sure trump can talk about the economy using big fancy words but that doesn't send a clear message to 95% of the population that votes. the main thing is to get into office not look smart
>>73333765
It totally does Red Cross flag. Why are we stopping at a red light then? We sacrifice some liberty for security
>>73340313
Ah yes, THAT defense tactic of Donald Trump's positions
>He's just saying things but he isn't really going to do that!
It's funny to hear that defense. People here claim he's going to "stick it to the Jews" and shit, and then he comes out and says "There's nobody more pro-Israel than me".
Half of /pol/ claims they thought Israel was based the whole time
The other half is in denial and think he's secretly the second incarnation of Hitler.
We can't read minds. We can only judge by what thoughts a candidate expresses, either through speech, or through things they've written or actions they've done.
To make an assumption of what you think their TRUE thoughts are, is just not grounded in reality.
https://youtu.be/OfWidZH0xBs
This is Trump's plan to solve the Heroin and Opioid Epidemic. This is what we have to judge his thought process on.
YOU'RE going to tell me he has a better plan somehow.
>>73340778
It's not really a criticism against Trump, but I really fucking hate this. It's so fucking telling about where the average american is. On Tuesday I was counting his words, and I think maybe 5 times he used a word with more than 4 syllables.
I guess oration is a dead art. At least Sanders and Clinton are equally untalented in that regard. But I just hate that Trump is clearly "dumbing himself down."
>>73340476
I don't think the government can directly legislate morality, they have to discourage factors which cause immorality to occur. That's why banning alcohol created an escalation of the problem and creation of a black market. As I said, telling people that you're going to limit their "freedoms" doesn't work because we inherently don't believe it's the government's business. So religious conservatives are maligned by most of the population. The president has to be more savvy to enact positive social change.
>>73326594
You know who else went bankrupt? Every company that made every thing you've ever used/driven.
>>73340967
I didn't say Trump isn't going to build a wall. He just simplifies the issue into a couple of simple ideas, preferably an image. The actual plan will certainly be more complex. You don't win an election on 12-step plans.
This does create some interpretation about his policies, I'll admit. But he has certain qualities (like not being funded by lobbyists) which suggest he has the capability to be more successful than any recent president.
>>73326443
Lot of jewish ties, that's pretty much it.
>>73341548
>That's why banning alcohol created an escalation of the problem and creation of a black market
This is actually demonstrably false. People didn't drink during Prohibition, and the per capita consumption didn't hit pre 1918 levels until the 60s. Cirhossis rates didn't match up until the 80s. And the crime rate was rising at the turn of the 20th
But I don't want to get off topic, but banning things does work, if it meets certain criteria; it MUST be enforced. This kind of ties into Trump's immigration policy. Illegal immigration is, well, illegal. But it's poorly enforced. Trump, or anyone really, can solve this problem simply by enforcement.
>we inherently don't believe it's the government's business
I think you're wrong here. There's a reason that Libertarianism isn't more popular. Most Americans simply don't believe this. Sure, they want government to fuck off on matters that might directly concern them, but they absolutely want Government to step in according to their arbitrary definitions.
>>73341424
The fact that Trump is dumbing it down shows how savvy and intelligent he is. Most are too proud for this tactic.
After Trump fixes education, maybe the next president will make four syllable words great again.
>>73342446
Well, I don't want Trump to fix education. And I'll give him credit, he's lambasted CC since at least 2010. Get out in that department, leave it local, let the winners win, losers lose.
But yeah, he's definitely sandbagging. I don't buy the idea that his brain is going, but he definitely is pretending to be retarded.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rksd80-FCAw
>>73327027
Anon it always comes down to a douche and a turd sandwhich
I would rather have the candidate all the other oligarchs hate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy
>>73342236
the "self funded" meme
>2 donate buttons on his front page
>>73342236
also, as an independent. I'd like to see 12 step plans. I don't want memes and shitty "everything is going to be great" statements, that doesn't get my vote. That makes sure that I will vote AGAINST you if another candidate has a comprehensive and realistic plan.
>>73326443
Honestly, the whole ridiculous anti-environmental stances he has kind of rub me the wrong way. I think it's dangerous to have opinions like that, because when you legislate according to them, you can do serious permanent damage.
Also this: >>73326679
>>73342372
My main problem with legislating social issues comes down to enforceability. You can enforce immigration laws. It's more difficult to enforce bans on sodomy, gay marriage (at least civil unions), drugs which grow so easily they're called "weed", etc.
>>73343666
>want a 12-step plan
I'm sympathetic. My whole family is the same way. The problem is that drastic actions have to be taken which will be very unpopular. He has to focus on the positive end result of the actions rather than the hard decisions themselves.
For every person who wants a 12-step plan, there are probably five that will only be won over by rhetoric.
>>73328820
Wetbacks swimming across the rio grande isn't as much of a thing as it was, they either overstay visas or are snuck over the border in trucks through the checkpoints, walls won't stop that.
>>73331915
This
>>73326443
He has no real philosophy or approach to politics.
He simply says "He's going to make America great again" and that he's going to do all these wonderful things for us, but he doesn't have any real plan on how to do so. Any probing questions that he answers point to him taking a liberal approach to government.
All the supposed hard stances he takes, he ends up walking back sooner or later.
Trump is literally playing on all your emotions and you're falling for it.
>>73326443
We're behind Israel 1000%
>>73326443
He doesn't understand foreign relations, he thinks government should be run like a business, his policies are based on polling data and not principle, there's no factual basis for many of his claims, he's advocating an isolationist stance, he doesn't understand the fundamentals of free trade, he's reactionary, defensive, and petty, he's dangerously unpredictable, and he has no prior governmental experience.
>>73327406
That charts wrong though
If you don't make at least $15k a few year you don't even pay taxes under Trump
>>73343666
>>73344295
I understand the desire for complex plans, but it's pretty unfair that only Trump has to deal with these accusations. In fact, his plans are some of the ones that are actually doable with presidential power, and a lot of the othe candidates are the ones that just say bullshit.
Bernie wants free college. How precisely is he going to do that?
Hillary wants mandated maternity leave. How precisely is she going to do that?
>>73343823
You're right. You absolutely can enforce immigration laws. But you're wrong on the drugs bit. Drug laws are completely enforceable. It's not a stretch to say Bratton's useof Kelling's theory was the primary factor in ending NYCs crack epidemic. It only takes a will to enforce it.
And beyond that, SE Asia has done a pretty damn fine job of enforcing drug policy, especially in Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore. Obviously you can point to countries like Malaysia, but in developed nations they have it in hand. And regarding sodomy, I think the Saudis have a decent handle on it.
Obviously I'm not advocating for such totalitarian doctrines, but it certainly CAN be done. There needs to be a decent balance with our western values of Liberty.
But this goes back to the Bully Pulpit. By definition, it's all talk. But it can have a remarkable influence. Maybe you don't even need to enforce when the majority believes certain activities are morally unjust.
>>73327406
Isn't it true that 47% of Americans don't pay income tax?
>>73343529
>donate buttons on Trump homepage
>A billionaire can be bought for $5400
kek
>>73344622
>it's pretty unfair that only Trump has to deal with these accusations
Oh come on. All candidates have had this levied against them. And even then, they always had records they could point to show that they would or would not support certain policies.
>Bernie wants free college. How precisely is he going to do that?
He's explicitly stated that he would raise taxes to pay for this
>Hillary wants mandated maternity leave. How precisely is she going to do that?
She would use government overreach to, as you said, mandate companies to do this.
I hate the ideas, which is what I hate about Clinton and Sanders, but they've been pretty transparent about it.
>>73326443
9.5 trillion in new debt.
>>73326443
He's an inarticulate asshole, not fitting for the office of president.
>>73345358
"Muh feels"
>>73344622
The "free" college tuition is accomplished by increasing funding to state universities. Actually a large part of the problem with education lately has been states have been cutting university funding so universities have been hiking student fees to take in money instead. The revenue to pay for it he's said will be done by a tax on wallstreet speculation. Basically a small tax on every stock trade, similar to what they do in other countries already. It won't hurt people who invest long term, but where it generates money is in people who do thousands of trades a day, like hedge funds. These speculators destabilize the stock market and add a lot more risk when it comes to investment as it is, so if all the tax does is discourage that kind of rapid trading behavior, it might be good on its own. Make the market less volatile. Or it can generate billions of dollars a year in revenue for their risky behavior.
>>73345582
Diplomacy is part of the job description
>>73334944
> playing Blue instead of superior Red
> ever
>>73345358
>The "Hurrdurr Trump is inarticulate and stupid and he'll offend our allies and start WWIII by talking like a moron" meme
>Not realizing Trump is intentionally making himself "plainspoken" to have the widest appeal possible.
>Not realizing a man who has made billions negotiating would know how to exactly control his speech to suit any given situation.
>Not realizing Trump is the most brilliant media mind alive today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rksd80-FCAw
"Not fitting for the office of president"
His idea about defaulting on US debt alone disqualifies him from serious consideration. Good write up on it here:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/06/donald-trump-on-us-debt.html
Key point:
" What's especially troubling about Trump's proposal is that there is genuinely no conceivable circumstance under which this kind of default would be necessary. The debt of the federal government consists entirely of obligations to pay US dollars to various individuals and institutions. US dollars are, conveniently, something the US government can create instantly and in infinite quantities at any time.
Of course, it might be undesirable to finance debts by printing money rather than raising taxes or cutting spending. In particular, that kind of money printing could lead to inflation, and even though inflation is very low right now there's no guarantee that it will always be low.
But a little bit of inflation is always going to be strictly preferable to destroying the whole American economy, especially because a debt default would cause a crash in the value of the dollar and spark inflation anyway.
Trump doesn't know what he's talking about."
>>73326768
That goes both ways retard.
>>73346248
Nobody in this thread has suggested Trump would start a world war.
>>73326443
>NOTICE THE FIVE THINGS THAT IMMEDIATELY OCCURRED AFTER DONALD TRUMP BECAME THE PRESUMPTIVE REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:
>1. He officially received the support of Jewish Zionist billionaire Sheldon Adelson:
>http://www.jta.org/2016/05/06/news-opinion/politics/adelson-backs-trump-says-hell-be-good-for-israel
>2. He officially condemned anti-Semitism and denounced David Duke for the third time:
>http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/05/05/donald-trump-is-pressured-to-reject-david-dukes-remarks-on-jewish-extremists/
>3. He named a Goldman Sachs, Soros funded, Hollywood Jewish banker as his national finance chairman:
>http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-05-05/trump-names-hedge-fund-manager-as-national-finance-chairman
>4. He tasked his AIPAC lobbyist Jewish deputy campaign manager Michael Glassner with planning the Republican convention:
>http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/donald-trump-michael-glassner-convention-222878
>5. He was congratulated by the Republican Jewish Coalition for his becoming the presumptive Republican presidential nominee:
he's not as redpilled as you think he is. I really wish he was a far right bogeyman
Cruz was, but he's gone now.
>>73346262
>"US dollars are, conveniently, something the US government can create instantly and in infinite quantities at any time."
>>73347424
It's common hyperbole from people touting the "Trump can't speak" meme.
>>73329475
>Has no concept of behaving morally superior to your enemies, which is why he's basically willing to go full ISIS on ISIS (ie intentionally target civilians, use torture even if it doesn't work)
That is war.
One of the reasons so many international problems and terror sects continue to exist is because humanity doesn't practice total war anymore, it's just shoot at each other for awhile with ridiculous ROE then all reset. Remember when Japan was getting all uppity killing all the other Asians then we nuked them? The Nips realized that if they continued to fight they would lose even more innocent people, so they surrendered and now they make the whole world porn and decent quality knives without dive bombing anyone.
It's horrible, but it is how war must be fought otherwise we get bogged down in decade long incursions into shitty land where we cannot actually accomplish anything but displacing people.
Your other points are good, although I remember his stance on vaccines being something similar to -so many vaccines in such a short amount of time in such a critical developmental period is bad- but don't quote me on that one.
>>73348853
No it's not. Trump isn't a very good orator. HIs willingness to go off the cuff is certainly new on the political stage, but just look at his AIPEC speech. It was pretty stilted. He's just not very good at it.
In his defense, neither Sanders nor Clinton have that gift either, and it doesn't help that one of Obama's best talents was in oration, but stop lumping everything together.
People can think his public speaking skills are subpar without thinking he will spark a third world war.
>>73327406
Tax cuts benefit people who pay taxes. Amazing.
>>73326594
kek
>>73327406
He changed his position on that today btw.
>>73336709
>someone so weak
Her nickname is The Barracuda.
She's the most ferocious female Republican in office and is tougher on illegals than Trump is.
Do your research, man.
>>73326443
I have no reason to believe what he says. At least with bought out politicians you could look at their "donors" to see what policy stances they'd pick, but this guy has nothing tying him down.
For some reason people think that's a good thing, they think somebody will actually listen to what they want. Don't really see why a guy who brags about being part of the system that buys out politicians would suddenly have a change of heart and act like he cared about human beings now.
As it stands, I'm voting for the anarchist party (yes they exist) solely because they're the only honest retards who say they plan to destroy America.
>>73350559
I don't want more pandering. That shit sunk McCain and did jack shit for Cruz. Pandering only works for the left. Trump is tough enough on immigration, pick a senator with foreign policy experience or a former general/admiral.
>>73327406
You mean a percentage tax cut saves rich people more money than poor people? What a surprise.
>>73350018
Source?
>>73351183
Think of it like this.
Trump is rich enough, and old enough, that he could spend every day for the rest of his life doing blow and fucking hookers, or literally whatever the fuck he wants.
Yet by going into this race, he's cutting all of those options short and resigning himself to spending his twilight years in the oval office doing work for the country.
And you know he's egotistical. But why would somebody with an ego like that want to be anything other than a great president? You think he wants people to remember him as the President who fucked everyone over, or do you think he's gonna do his best to at least TRY to be remembered as a great president? That's the only reason I can see for him doing this, in order to literally Make America Great Again.
Trump came to the race with a set of values wildly different from the usual establishment candidates. And now look at Hillary. Hillary changes her beliefs to align with her voters, almost every one of them. She has no principles. The only reason she wants to be President is because she wants to be the President. She doesn't have any values or codes or great change she wants to bring about. She just wants to take her career to the logical conclusion, for herself and nobody else.
>>73351816
You're the same kind of idiot that "would like to have a beer with W"
>>73351816
Think of it like this.
Trump wants to be historically famous, not contemporary news. His ego, like so many other egotistical jumpstart politicians (Hitler, Napoleon, Castro) will cause him to make irrational decisions because he'll feel invincible with the power of office. Those decisions will then bring America to her knees and seal the end of her domination in the world.
History always repeats itself.
>>73340313
Spending billions of dollars on a fucking meaningless passive aggressive symbol, what a true conservative.
>>73326594
>Big Wall street executive
>Big Wall
the kekest
>>73327406
this makes me want to vote for Trump more
>>73349151
The moral highground exists so that we don't have to completely eradicate the enemy killing all their civilians and burning down their entire land. There's no point for wanton destruction and murder if we can destroy the actual enemy which is the regime/government, not the citizens.
Not to mention, if we have a reputation for fair treatment of prisoners of war, enemies are more likely to lay down their arms when they know they're outgunned without firing a shot. In the first desert storm 10's of thousands of troops surrendered at once, because frankly, they knew we'd treat them better than Saddam was treating them, and it's a choice of dying, or being ensured 3 meals a day, shelter, medical treatment, and you can't be beaten or tortured or forced to do hard labor, and when the war is over, you go home to your family.
Now if we have a reputation for torturing and starving prisoners of war to death... who the fuck is going to lay down their arms? Even if they're outgunned their choice is dying now with a rifle in my hands fighting my enemy.. or dying in a cell in Guantanamo Bay, after having been tortured, beaten, and starved, either way I'm dead and will never see my family again.
Which do you think is more likely to get them to give up and not fight. Realize that every enemy laying down their arms without firing a shot is potentially saving American lives.
>>73326768
Rofl you cant make this shit up
