If you're following Trump, you might be following Scott Adams, who predicted Trump's rise due to him having awesome powers of persuasion. Scott often blogs about persuasion as if it were a superpower, often referring to master persuaders as "Wizards." He has a reading list of books that teach you about this kind of thing.
So my question is, what does /pol/ think of this? Is persuasion and neuro linguistic programming total voodoo or not? Is it exaggerated? Is it real?
Who?
>>73322325
Dilbert guy
>>73322192
NLP is for real. But unfortunately it was one of the "lost Cold War social techs" that never made the transition post 1993. So NLP is in this quasi 'mythic state' because it was never fully discovered and articulated. Unfortunately for the West, however, all of the """"""""Communication Scholars""""""" are now so ignorant of the subject they can't even recreate the initial effects, let alone explain the theory (which the founders themselves failed to do.) Scott Adams is an effective wizard because his communication practices are indistinguishable from magic. Trump is an effective wizard as well, because again, he's an auto-didact operating from an incomparably advanced theory.
"Memetics" by the way, was articulated in the 1830s by the University of Jenna and Fichte and it didn't do shit until we get Hegel.... But Hegel today is unintelligible thanks to Popper who shitcanned that social tech from the West.
>TLDR: It's real, but we didn't understand during the Cold War. We shut down the Communications departments to 'muh Social Justice,' so now we'll never truly know what it is.
>>73323958
By the way. The students that this professor is talking about now run the RNC and the DNC, and are trying to architect the 'globalist' project. Alan was an old man when 'old men were young' and so was extremely sketpical of any ability they would have to change things for the better. Richard Rorty, the 'last of the GI scholars,' also believed that Fascism would inevitably triumph over Globalism. People were sounding the alarm in the 90s but the college kids ignored them. Now it's inevitable the rise of SOME kind Far Right will emerge victorious.
>>73323958
But is there any current literature on the subject that's any good? Scott has this reading list for people who want to learn how to do it. Is it worth looking into in your opinion?
http://blog.dilbert.com/post/129784168866/the-persuasion-reading-list
>>73324685
Scott has been right all along so I would say yes.
>>73324685
If there was any good literature on NLP, I would actually be the one who would have written it. The problem of NLP is that it is the "philosophy of communication." We lack the actual words to even explain what the fuck is happening when we are 'programming.' So it's a giant clusterfuck that requires a guru to put it all together. Treat everything about NLP as a fraud until then. Right now only the auto-didactics know how to do it, until a Billionaire and/or government decides to pony up the millions in order to crack it.
>>73324859
Be careful people who practice NLP are easily tempted to being frauds. We don't even know what the fucking terminology means, and somehow it 'sticks to our head.'
>>73325216
So are you saying that it's currently an art because we've lost the science on it and no one has re done the research?
>>73325480
Exactly and worse. Nobody can even repeat the initial experiments at this stage. Communication is about performance, not knowledge. And then it gets even worse. Prepare for the full might of Psychology against you because it'll fuck up everyone's pet theory. And then it gets even worse. Wait until some politically incorrect shit starts emerging from the theory and then the Sociologists will come after you. One doesn't simply just 'look into this.' One restructures the entire practice of Academia at the expense of everyone's feels.
But again. I cannot stress this enough. This is sort of like the 'Seven Cities of Gold' and frauds are abundent. To the point where, again, we didn't solve this in the 80s. And we sure as shit can't solve it in this climate.
I've come a VERY long way, to the point where I may be able to produce results. But good fucking luck because nobody solicits anymore like they used.
>>73325877
It kind of sounds like the perfect storm if you can learn it, and if it's actually real. Very few others will be able to use it, and very few will believe that you are actually doing anything. How would that not sound enticing?
>>73324685
Direct mail guru here working for a large firm, its a good basic list to start you off.
If you really want to get into it I suggest reading the Gary Halbert newsletter on how to become a copywriter. It's called his Copywriting Challenge.
NLP is a dirty word to use as many of these so called "Wealth Gurus" that market their bullshit on how to make money online use the techniques and even repackage them as their own.
Also there are torrents on Kickass that are really fucking good like the NLP practitioners courses. Tho when you get into that you'll feel like it's a bit like Scientology.
>>73326624
Honestly, because there are very real world phenomenon that inhibit the point. I mean, I can change opinions pretty easily in conversation with NLP, and speeches as well ("Lyin Ted") but it's irrelevant because Communication has limits. That's one of the hardest things to convey. There are HARD limits to Communications. Even Mao was very aware of this which was why he kept changing his rhetorical strategies (Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution, Three Worlds Doctrine) in order to remain in power. Most people cognitively cannot change their rhetorical strategies effectively.
For instance, one of the things I cannot change is that the business community is cognitively malformed. It's great when you are a Billionaire because you get to shit on them, or if you are a socialist who knows how to utilize NLP to get people to donate their savings. But since I am neither of these things I'm rather irrelevant at this point.
If it was just a matter of speaking like the Gipper, I'd be famous throughout the world. But without interest from SOME group, the speaking never happens.
My decision has to do with Ethical Calculus, at this point.
>>73327379
bump. I've followed some Bandler and thoroughly believe in deep hypnotic work but holy shit its annoying to hear him say hes putting people in the audience in trance without them even realizing. It's no deeper than tv alpha wave-state.. but he's got a cult that eats up his words and that faith alone will work wonders. Success lies in people already approaching you towards the position of power and influence. Mind you I do know their are a lot of techniques of NLP that are very hard to articulate as well.
>>73328902
Exactly. There is a percentage of people who sell utilize pseudo-communication theories and then use actual communication theories to get the money. It's really a meta-con. I've always stayed away from those practices because they've never really appealed to me. Good Communication can NEVER be a weapon. Good Communication is 'merely' a dialogue.
>>73322192
This entire thread sounds like the same person replying to his own posts while pretending to be two different people.
Interesting topic, nonetheless.
So aside from the reading list above, are there any modern gurus on youtube that supposedly hold a candle to Bandler? I'm going through the last of minor opiate withdrawals atm and have a hard time reading for long. (3 years of methadone)
>>73329745
I noticed that as well.
>>73322192
honestly i think Trump's success is not a huge magical riddle. He's literally the only candidate to be openly and unapologetically against mass migration in times where everyone is worried about mass migration (both whites and local non-whites) .
>>73330091
Nah there's a lot gong on. He speak so simply, basically dumbed down to reach the masses but not condescending. He uses repetition a lot. And he's got the best words...the best words...winning words...I'm telling you he's got words that win.
>>73322192
>a reading list of books
>>73330345
if you go back at the beginnings of his campaign in July, that's the first thing he was very firm about. the lefty media laughed at him and memed a lot of you can't make business without mexicans slogans, everyone thought he'd be gone within 2 months. then fall came and with it the invasion of Europe and suddenly no one was laughing anymore.
>>73330091
>yfw. I actually wrote a personal essay to this testament.
>>73330345
I've heard him use "dearth" and "braggadocious". He does have some pretty good words. He just hides them from the idiot public.
>>73330909
kek
>>73323958
So all these NLP seminars that are offered for executive level people here are just about a subset of what NLP could be?
What do you mean precisely by "Popper shitcanning social tech"?
This is very interesting to watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9BeXEvdcpo
>>73331408
This is just conversation. Doesn't seem particularly 'NLP' to me.
>>73331184
Karl Popper is too big a fish to discuss on 4chan. I'd need an essay, and even then, who'd read it?
>>73331408
You wanna run with the big dogs. You have to back in time. They don't make like them like they used to. Here is some real fucking NLP.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDTBnsqxZ3k
>>73329745
I wasn't expecting someone to be here who would claim to have that much experience in the matter.
This thread is on the up and up as far as I can tell.
Also you have to believe me because I cast charm person on you. It's in the rules.
>>73331583
It's the hand movements. NLP started with watching the eyes in relation to thought, then progressed into the 5 senses. Researchers found that the best psychotherapy practitioners were never speaking differently than the patient. If the doctor said "how does that make you FEEL?" and the patient begins to say "I just don't SEE things working out with such and such scenario" The doctor must switch modalities to relate to that persons strongest sense working in the subconscious against their confiedences then aim to correct that sense by reframing/ reimagining/re asserting proper feelings.
>>73332254
And that's the best we got....after this it went all the shit. 10/10
>>73332047
haha thanks.
Gotta love the push/pull of extremes to nab attention. Best way to brain wash is to pull someones fucking nails out slowly then say you really like them and want them and want t be friends, repeat, repeat until the psyche collapses is dissolution with reality. MK-Ultra
>>73330909
You're missing the point. Fancy words aren't the Best Words. The idiot public won't know those words. Some might know one, some might know the other, a smaller percentage with know both.
Everyone knows goofy, lyin', cheating, etc.
To put in in a basic sense, how would you think without language? How would you define things? How would you store memories and associations? By using simple words and repetition Trump is shaping the way people think about his opponents, whether they realize it or not.
And then they reinforce it without realizing it. Warren responded with a tweak where she said 'goofy.' Now I have another association between Warren and that word. Trying to fight him they help him.
>>73332910
yes. simply said, the " I'd have a beer with him" vote.
>>73322192
NLP is a crock of shit
>>73333156
The real wolf of wallstreet has some god-tier persuasion. Jordan Belfort's Strait-Line Persuasion is modelled after some of the best charismatic practices of NLP (leading and pacing) but doesn't delve into hypnotics of any sort.
>>73333403
I'm genuinely impressed by what you know.
Just out of curiosity, it appears that the circles in which these people run are rather small.
So had any one met any notable personalities like Scott Adams or any of these guru types?
>>73333517
thank you. I would be too if I could stay in the zone with it but I'm a NEET and very against using those practices for gain for some reason. A lot ability I have to understand it comes from using MDMA and it putting me in a sociopathic mindset to rape my college friends at poker. The stuff makes ya feel psychic at times and able to read micro expression while testing partial bluff talk and raises for reaction.
All the NLP and psychology is much older than soviet era though. It goes back to Egypt, then appeared again in Judaism, the hashishin "assassin cult", then Templar sorcery and black-lodge free-masonry. Also Catholicism knows damn well whats its doing.
>>73334559
I guess it comes naturally from people trying to "crack humans" and are good observants.
>>73334559
>memetics back to Egypt
PRAISE KEK
>>73334190
If you read Steve Sailer's blog he, among many other excellent topics, follows who is married to who and who worked in whose office before going on to facilitate a government contract later.
NLP started by analysing people that were exceptional at certain things, and trying to copy them in such a way as to be reproducible by almost anyone.
NLP right now includes hundreds of people that all think they have great ideas, tons of organizations handing out NLP certificates that mean nothing but cost lots of money, and frauds that scam people using extremely basic 'NLP' techniques that most people have heard about to some degree (but they've usually been misunderstood in some way).
One thing to bare in mind is the best NLP'er in the world is probably not as good as someone who is naturally good at something, though they may come close.
NLP is based on a really good way of thinking about how to improve yourself and others that's been completely corrupted by money and backlash from the 'scientific' community (psychologists that believe they want to fuck their mother). If you are interested in it you will have to wade through a lot of crap to find good stuff.
>>73331408
>>73332254
This video is pretty much garbage.
>>73334559
>>73334559
When I meet strangers at bars and have a simple conversation going, I like to try to get into their head. I become highly selfconscious of my micro-expressions and show some "by accident" to test them.
Does anyone else feel like you can know 80% about a person just from their face? 1 minute conversation and it goes up to 90%.
Hell, just thursday I was at a brewery and two women invited me to sit down with them. I put on my poker face and manipulated them for maybe an hour before their group left. I played it cool, pretended to be sarcastic when I was serious, and acted serious when I was being sarcastic. Before they left, one told me I was very handsome and it was nice to meet me, and the other was yelling at me calling me a BAD MAN grinning ear to ear looking at me as she walked out.
THEN AGAIN, they had some beers- on the other hand after a few beers is when we become the most honest version of ourselves.
>>73335229
>NLP started by analysing people that were exceptional at certain things, and trying to copy them in such a way as to be reproducible by almost anyone.
This. It turned into a clusterfuck of con men because the researchers failed.
>>73335455
I hope you realize that taking drugs and talking to drunk chicks isn't some sort of impressive ability.
>>73322192
Too many buzzwords, all NLP is about is building repoire with people using all forms of communication (vocabulary, body language, facial expressions etc.).
When you build repoire with someone they are more likely to believe what you are saying. It's not wizardry or voodoo, anyone who works in a consultative sales job usually knows how to do it
This book was written back in the 1980's and covers a lot: http://www.amazon.com/Influencing-Integrity-Management-Communication-Negotiation/dp/0961317205
Do you guys ever say something about an interaction with a person (like, "he seemed nervous", or "they don't like us", something like that) to other people who are with you and they have no idea what you are talking about?
I swear it happens pretty regularly to me, some of my friends pick up on it to, but most don't.
>>73335455
Yes, there are a lot of genralizations you can make about people tho by strength of eye contact (confidence) what music they like, what they are wearing and the accent/ sophistication of their speech. I really enjoy finding people that are not what they appear to be. For instance, I met a guy at my old job that was covered in tattoos and piercings so I figured he was a dumbass. It took a couple days to realize he was the unofficial leader of the project and was a very deep philosophical thinker...Then we got hammered at the strip club and snorted blow all night...so there's that. Uppers are the key to illumination, but I don't do them anymore.
>>73335557
I wouldn't say researchers failed - there's been some successes. It's just watered down in a sea of crap.
>>73336099
Rapport is only a small part of NLP. You're right that it isn't so much magic as much as learning to actively do things that work.
>>73336122
You're right, one of the things about people is that sometimes it's incredibly obvious what emotion someone is experiencing if you tune into them, most people are only tuned into themselves and will not notice someone flinch slightly, or turn away, or have a certain look on their face. If you look for things you'll notice everyone gives themselves away all the time.
If you want a good idea what someone might be feeling try and copy what they're doing, stand how they're standing, pose like they are posing and copy their facial expression, you'll begin to see what they might be experiencing.
>>73336099
It might not be voodoo but when you are able to steer people in directions and they submit to your ideas of where to go, what to buy etc. they never intended, rather than just meet them on a peer level. It's a whole other. I'd imagine most people have no idea or think it even possible, but like Phil Anselmo of Pantera's manager said. "Phil could get the crowd to do anything he commanded, they would get naked, they would hurt each other, they would do anything he told them without question." I mean someone shot dimebag on stage because he said the music had demons in it.
>>73336881
What you talk about is possible, and you will see alphas that are able to do those things without seeming like they're even trying. That's the trick, they're just doing things that come naturally to them. NLP is an attempt to make those behaviours and the mindsets necessary to facilitate them natural to you.
A band front man is kind of a bad example though because being very famous on a stage you don't need any talent to get a crowd to do something.
>>73337638
kinda right, but his charisma and alphaness got him there, right. He was a natural leader who "walked with swagger". I would have mentioned that jew manlet from his book "the game" who was self-taught but wasn't sure if anyone in the thread would know who I meant.
>>73335992
>taking drugs
NO CIGARETTES
NO DRUGS
NO ALCOHOL
This sounds a lot like what the Zen masters call 'dynamics.'
Basically: Every thing has a visible part, and an invisible part. Among other things, this means that all visible or audible actions (words, expressions, decisions, etc.) have an invisible counterpart (motivation, emotion, knowledge, strategy).
The study of Zen dynamics and the freeing of the student's mind, is meant to enable you to perceive that which is not normally perceptible. Talk to someone about something, and gain more knowledge from them than they intended to part with. Allow the subconscious, imperceptible parts of communication to travel directly to you, where you can examine them at your leisure.
It also works in reverse. Calm and arrange your own mind and spirit, and the mind and spirit of another, so that anyone you communicate with, the transmission is perfect. Things that cannot, or should not, be directly perceived can be communicated like this.
There is an excellent paper written by a pair of French hypnotists, regarding Obama's speeches in the 2008 primaries and general election. Essentially he was engaging in mass stage hypnosis. Very powerful stuff.
>>73331583
>Karl Popper is too big a fish to discuss on 4chan
cute
s*Ged this memethred
>>73338670
If that's working out for you then fine, but if your still a virgin or AFC (average frustrated chump) I'd make some changes and come to the light. Drugs are a tool to reach and understand the psyche, but must be eliminated once you know and understand the end of the journey you could not fathom before taking drugs. Try readin some Terrance McKenna and Timothy Leary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-circuit_model_of_consciousness
>>73338767
Great stuff, man. You're almost peaking about the astral and hermetics known to the rosicrucians, thule and vrill society.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUj5z_dqA_Q
>>73338767
It's actually just basic statistical mechanics and genetic algorithms really.
>>73339681
Nah man. there's things going on in this world you can't fathom yet. I've done some meditation based on Crowleys 8 lectures on yoga and hermetics tuned with specific wave patterns on youtube vids. I quickly developed a sense for electrical forces. I almost fell over when I walked over top of a ceiling fan downstairs. This was after a period of intensely improved hearing a few days earlier. I had to turn off a 10 watt radio that was on low volume in a bedroom at the end of a hall because the sound of the steel-guitar in the country music was making me uncomfortable euphoric. Btw music was changed by the Rockefeller foundation to be tuned to 440 hrtz because it passes into the subconscious easier. 432hrtz is perceptible to the mind when lyrical "brainwashing" is taking place. I know everyone hear will say this is quackery but so is color to a blind man. I'm just planting seeds for your future if you choose to entertain these ideas some day.
>>73339681
Bio-coding
>>73338767
>paper written by a pair of French hypnotists, regarding Obama's speeches in the 2008
That sounds really interesting. I've always been really interested in the topic. I believe a lot of highly "successful" people, or at least some, use anchors and some components, like this anon stated >>73332910 of nlp
>>73339351
>almost
Its because these things have always been truly ineffable. Its impossible to even describe them to an uninitiated person with any accuracy.
The universality of the true infinite mind. How many scholars have tried to put it to pen? Countless, and they have all failed. But the failures have not been in vain, people can always find the ends of the threads of fate. Knowledge will persevere, it is its nature to be.
>>73333156
>NLP is bullshit
yeah tell that to Army Intel
>>73322192
NLP is good at swaying a crowd, but it can't fake his history of consistency on the issues. If NLP is what it takes to outjew the jews, then I'm glad the Don has the right qualities to make effective use of it.
