http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/health/biggest-loser-weight-loss.html?_r=0
New study is out that shows that fat people have permanently altered their metabolisms for the worse. They literally have done irreversible damage even after losing the weight. Their bodies, even back at normal weight, now burn less in a day then they would have originally - causing them to gain weight back.
So when do we throw fat people in the gas chamber?
>sample size = 14
Real scientific there.
The key is to not get fat in the first place.
>>73126895
haha oh wow
>>73126895
This
1000 is the bare minimum for getting a public opinion spread that is representative for the US.
200-500 would be the minimum I'd give for this kind of a study
Here is the actual study: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/oby.21538/full
>>73126895
>>73127229
Yeah, it's not a great study, but there have been others, done on less dramatic weight loss. IIRC the results were about 100-200 calories lower than TDEE. So if a normal person needs 1800kcal to maintain weight, the ones that were previously fat would need to eat 1600-1700kcal instead. Doable, but, they are certainly worse off.
It seems the more dramatic the diet and the fatter the person, the worse off. I.e. Biggest Loser is some stupid crazy diet where they do like 3500kcal deficit per day (a normal diet is 3500kcal deficit per week).
>>73126669
>be super athletic
>break my fucking leg skiing
>gain like 50lbs and still can't exercise until next month
guess I better put a down payment on the mobility scooter
If their metabolism is slower than normal then they just need to eat less than normal.
To the consider that this man lost the weight in a very short period of time?
Honestly this just seems like propaganda to keep people fat. Don't try to better yourself, there is no point!
>>73126669
You posted this the other day. Fuck off.
>>73126669
Their metabolism is slower, yes, because a natural metabolism is slow.
Slow and steady wins the race. Energy metabolism releases free radicals. Having a fast metabolism means you are exposed to more free radicals.
Breaking energy out of food is a double edged sword, so we have to be smart and make our calories count.
>>73126669
Bitter melon is the solution
>>73127362
>only 100-200 cal less
Jesus fuck fatties stop making excuses for every little fucking thing
>>73127711
There are plenty of herbal supplements demonstrated to increase fat metabolism. Cayenne supposedly results in a net increase of calories burnt, too.
>>73127448
>this just seems like propaganda to keep people fat.
Maybe, maybe not. I will say this, the "Readers Responses" are already using the study to explain their failures:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/05/health/readers-respond-the-biggest-loser.html
>>73127851
Well, in reality 3500kcal equates to a pound of gain. So you could really say that 100-200kcal is a big deal daily. Now, they should be smart enough to get on a scale and say "shit my weight is going up, I better skip the donut tomorrow" - but they aren't.
>>73127448
This is also a factor.
Anyone can do a crash diet/exercise and lose weight fast, but it's not a replacement for doing it the slow way by changing your entire diet and lifestyle.
If you don't make those hard changes you'll just gain it all back as you return to your old routines.
>>73127951
Their failures are due to a lack of discipline. This science offers false conclusions.
The average American does not have a natural metabolism, and again, this isn't drag racing, your body was not designed to be naturally wasteful.
>>73127448
It's only for huge fat fucks like him. If you are just a little over weight you'll be fine.
>>73128055
Not even that, just a bit of exercise would be enough to make up the difference
>>73126669
So they burn 200 calories less per day than the average person? That's fucking nothing, it's literally a 30 minute walk.
>>73128164
I'm arguing that the metabolism is simply returning to where it would be, if the person hadn't trained their body to run near exclusively on high-octane sugars.
This research is presented as a false conclusions to enforce the misconception that health is not a matter of discipline.
>>73128241
Plus they're eating good food, and the average American is stimulating their metabolism with refined sugars.
All this shows, is that the average metabolism is a dysfunction. Given that the average American is overweight, this is a reasonable assumption.
>>73126669
>n=14
This is bullshit, it's just supposed to another "you will never get fit and lose that weight anon, so why try", well fuck them, and fuck you OP and fuck your fat logic bullshit.
We're all going to make it bros, as long as you don't listen to cunts like these. I've lost 85 of the past 8 months, there is no "Slow" metabolism here.
>>73126669
Is there an actual study or are you an idiot that determined this from a chart of four people? There are many factors that go into slower metabolism one of the big ones is age and they are six years older now. Also what are their diets? I fc they aren't eating correctly it could also slow their metabolism
>>73128241
>So they burn 200 calories less per day than the average person?
No, more. In the example of Danny Cahill they used, he burns 800kcal less per day.
Assuming they can accurately measure that - I'm not sure how that works.
>>73128772
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/oby.21538/full
>>73126895
noob destroyed thread over
To be honest, any dramatic weight state will alter metabolism and hormonal function, whether it's obesity or anorexia.
However, to say that it's irreversible is most likely skimming over nuance. For one, we don't know the entirety of mechanics associated with something like obesity.
One specific, novel bit of understanding, is that obese people have different gut flora than non-obese people... This has yuuuuuuugeee implications with regard to metabolic function, possibly hormone production, and possibly even neurotransmitter production. I'm willing to bet that this """study""" omits such novel information, and fails to weigh it in either the hypothesis or conclusion.
>>73128928
>obese people have different gut flora than non-obese people
What's this?
>>73128757
It's true. All it takes is discipline, something that our society does not teach.
holy shit, fucking around with the health of your body can permanently damage your body? what kind of strange universe do we live in? do bodies really get damaged like that?
>>73127391
Hey now that would take logic and self discipline.
>>73129068
Understanding gut flora let me reverse my type one diabetes, so I believe it full heartedly.
>>73129068
There are hundreds of trillions of bacteria living in your gut right now. The chemical products they create (and consume) depend on their circular DNA molecule. If you have different bacteria in your gut, then you have different DNA molecules in your gut, and it will inevitably alter your body chemistry.
>>73129068
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19901833
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/33/10/2277.full
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212877812000051
http://hmpdacc.org/search_results.php?cx=002256852962525364465%3Aetnw_63ffxq&cof=FORID%3A10%3BNB%3A1&q=obesity&sa=
>>73129303
>>73129405
>>73129514
Very interesting. I'll do some research on this. How do you alter your gut flora? diet?
>>73129576
It's not fully well understood, yet. However, one thing to keep in mind is that people whom consume predominately meat diets have different flora than those that consume predominately vegetable-based diets. Even within that spectrum, those that consume lots of simple sugar carbohydrates will probably be different than those that consume lots of complex carbohydrate diets. Fecal transplants are another option, but also, not very well understood. Probiotics can be helpful for a transient change, but are generally gone a few days after treatment.
>>73128928
>we don't know the entirety of mechanics associated with something like obesity
They're fat fucks that eat shitty food. Obesity was practically unheard of until very recently when we started really getting at them processed foods.
>>73129576
Wasn't fun for me, a couple weeks of fasting, detoxing and vomiting before I was desperate enough to use a coffee enama.
The filth that came out of my body was evidence of decades of negligence. After that, I cut out meat and took some herbs.
Still rebuilding years of damage, but I am currently no longer insulin dependent.
I've gone from needing 10 hours of sleep to feel good, to only needing 6. My vision has improved and I've got a six pack for the second time in my life.
Life is good, if we insist on that reality.
>>73126669
Am I having deja vu or did you post this topic word for word two days ago?
>>73130209
I'm a different guy. I copied his subject because thought it was perfect, but the body is different. He posted the whole article.
I think it's an interesting subject and figured try it at peak hour in Amerifat time. Was posted earlier last time.
>>73126669
300lbs to 205 here(6'3" male).
This is Bulls hit, most fat people have no self control and shit habits. It's hard to fix, not impossible.
>>73129576
Diet is a huge aspect, of course. Habits such as smoking and exposure to hazardous byproducts in the environment can have a tremendous effects on the bodies chemistry.
One temporary solution to understand the beneficial effects is to consume probiotics on a regular basis for about a month. If your system is particularly out of sync, you are likely to notice a change in your stools and even your state of wellbeing.
>>73129273
leptin suppliments
your body triggers cravings
>>73130153
Can you be more detailed? I find this extremely interesting
>>73130421
300lbs at 6'3 isnt nearly as bad as the contestants of big loser though. they were all 450+ and manlets
can someone tell me how someones metabolism slows down so much that they need 800 calories less a day?
how is that possible?
i was obese for a few years. i'm 5'8 and use to weigh 270 pounds. few years ago decided i no longer wanted to be a fat fuck so i went on a diet. dropped myself down to eating no more than 1,000 calories a day. dropped from 270 down to 150 after four months.
now? as few years later? i'm sitting at 135 pounds. i eat about 1,100 - 1,300 calories a day. i actually had to increase the amount of food i ate because i was dropping down to the low 120's. it was actually hard to eat more.
I don't get the hating on fatties thing as long as they're not the fat acceptance fags. I literally ate a party size bag of doritos and 2 jumbo burritos for dinner last night. I've never weighed more than 150 lbs at 5'10" and I never work out, I sit around , play vidya and shitpost on /pol/. Be kinda hypocritical of me to harp on fatties to eat less and work out when I won't myself.
>>73130846
someone already mentioned it, the biggest loser people have ridiculous deficits and I guess it was too much
>>73126669
https://www.jackkruse.com/easy-start-guide/
get more sunshine and eat more oily Fish
>>73130678
Wouldn't taking leptin supplements cause the body to reduce its natural production of leptin since it has an artificial source? Sort of like when athletes take testosterone and their natural (body produced) levels drop because of the artificial? Then they have to kick start it again after a cycle...
>>73130846
My guess? They measured wrong. Even though they had activity monitors, they knew a weigh in was coming so they upped their exercise and lowered their food intake. Metabolisms slow when ever you are in a deficit so the reading of RMR was artificially low.
>>73131192
so take vit d and fish oil pills LMAO
>>73130705
Eating light and vegan and keeping my body rebuilding. As a diabetic I only had approximately 2% of the cells left, so normally I would get a high blood sugar within hours of being disconnected from a pump.
The reason I detoxed, is because I realized that toxins increase blood sugar. I know that, because whenever you're sick as a diabetic, you'll need more insulin.
So I detoxed, ate vegan, and used the enemas to get the toxins out of me, instead of having to reabsorb them.
Started taking Syrian Rue, and Solomon's seal. I utilized 72 hour fast to recycle my damaged immune cells. Drinking fresh green smoothies, multivitamins, and a few extracherbs like cinnamon and stevia. Just a ton of stuff science says promote the growth of new pancreas cells. I'm even using deer antler velvet extract, which mimics insulin like-growth factor, to promote the regrowth.
Basically using herbalism, from a scientific understanding, to rebuild my body. It just took understanding exactly why I felt so sick during my detox, then using plants to undo the damage.
>>73131132
Nature is the great equalizer, you may still meet a premature end by other damages.
Why are fat people such slaves to their hormones?
So what if you feel hungry? Just don't eat too much regardless of how hungry you are.
Fat people overeating because they feel hungry and claiming they can't control themselves is no more an excuse than some guy going out and raping someone and saying 'I was too horny, I couldn't control myself'.
>>73127009
Before it over with we'll probably have meds that give everyone the metabolism of a teenager.
Sadly side effects will include everything from constipation, the shits, and mild paralysis to heart attack, coma, and spontaneous combustion
>>73131550
Do you believe in free will aswell?
We're slaves to our mind and biological desires.
>>73131557
Might be worth it, if we're 70 and it will restore our youth.
>>73127229
Moron who has never taken a stats class detected.
>>73131652
all I got from your post is "wah I don't wan to be held accountable for my actions."
>>73131517
Yeah, nature don't give a shit, but people do. I mean the amount of flak I get for being a skinny fat autist is nothing compared to what folks get for being just overweight, not even outright obese.
>>73131348
72 hour fasts fuck man I never do anything more than 24 hour
What did you eat as a vegan?
I want to switch from fish and poultry to vegan every two weeks or so, but I have no idea how to be full from vegan diets, as any meal that's vegan is basically a smoothie and soup for me
And have you read up on the enemas? I haven't read anything on them that sounded convincing, drinking coffee is enema enough for me
what's a syrian rue and solomon seal? Are those on examine.com?
>>73131946
Im not surprised
>>73131187
>>73131259
that's weird because i did a large deficit myself when i lost the weight.
wouldn't these people metabolism revert back over time?
it just seems to me these people went back to eating similar to how they use to. ignoring calories and drinking soda again like water. some of the contestants where able to maintain the weight loss. the one who use to weigh 445 pounds and now is at 450 pounds there is no way he has such a slow metabolism to cause him to eat 800 calories and turn it into 7500. that man had to go back eating the same exact diet he had previously and if not more since he gained an extra 5 pounds.
>>73131314
No Vit D pills are useless you need to have the D made in your skin by UV from sunshine.. the exogenous D CAN NOT perform the same function the endogenous D does.. fish oil is often oxidized.. eat FISH.
>>73126895
>Sample Size=14
When you consider that 2 in every 3 Americans are classed as overweight with a BMI of 27+, 14 is ridiculously small.
It doesn't take into account the unique genetics,racial makeup, whether the person has an illness requiring medication(a hell of a lot of westerners are on meds),body type or physical conditioning.
The real issue is fat promotion instead of having government(applies to all western governments) sponsored fat acceptance, fund a fucking a fat camp for every obese person to attend. I'm sure taxpayers would prefer money was spent on relieving the health industry and national resources than spending tens of billions a month on pointless warfare.
>>73132209
that's the big mystery
>>73132209
I think part of the problem with diets like Biggest Loser is that since they are so dramatic, the people never learn how to actually eat right. When you do a slow diet with a 500kcal deficit or whatever, then as the weight comes off you learn how to eat smaller amounts and what to eat, and what portion sizes look like visually. With crash diets or weird diets that never really happens.
>>73129576
Thier has been some sucess with doing a shit swap.
Really.
Some whore got a bad infection and the antibiotics that finally killed it were so strong they also killed her gut fauna ( this sometimes happens with mers super strain bugs). Since you need that gut bacteria they basically took a bunch of semi processed shit from a doner to fill her GI track with functional bacteria.
It also had the freak side effect of making the chroniclly fat woman snap back to normal weight ( just as her donor was). It's a one off case, perhaps annicdotal. To say nothing of the woman's brush with death perhaps realigning her priorities, but still it at least suggests the possibility exists.
>these fat cunts need to carb the fuck up
>>73131652
>We're slaves to our mind and biological desires.
except you know, those people who aren't because they choose not to rape, or eat that extra cookie.
>>73132482
>Thier has been some sucess with doing a shit swap.
Ah yes the ol' shit swap.
>13 of the 14 contestants regained their weight
That's because they continue their old habits. You don't lose 300 lbs then think you can go back to eating 10 cheeseburgers. It's forever.
>a slowing metabolism
Skinny people have slower metabolisms than fat people, so this is no surprise. Your metabolism is going while you're alive. Fat people have faster metabolism because they need to exert more energy to move the hundreds of pounds of fat that they carry around.
Study is stupid. All of this can be explained by you eat too fucking much, fatty.
>>73126669
>being obese leads to endocrine and thyroid malfunction
this isnt news
It was because of how fast they did it. if you starve yourself your body will gain weight in preparation for that time. doing it gradually will reduce this
>>73126669
It just means they have to exercise more. If they took up swimming or intense biking, or fuck even rowing, then that (very likely overstated) 200 calories less TDEE wouldn't be as big a deal.
I say this as someone who dropped from 280 to 170 and then rose back to 220.
>>73128757
do you think you eat as much as other people at your weight?
>>73126669
put them in labor camps and give them meth. at least make them useful
>>73126669
Actually fat people had bad genetics and metabolism in the first place. This study shows just ignorant fat hate speech.
>>73126895
Agrerd
>>73126669
So does this work in a reverse way for ultra skinny people? I can't seem to gain weight no matter how much stuff I eat.
>>73126669
eating less is difficult.
really?
>>73133715
Interesting question. I'm not sure.
I do know that on /fit/ when people say that generally the problem is they aren't eating as much as they think and need to count calories.
>>73131132
They are evil people. I am fat these people want us dead. I
> their bodies, even back at normal weight, now burn less in a day then they would have originally
Wouldn't burning less calories just mean that they are relatively in shape and healthy? Heart beats per minute is considered a good way to measure some general health things, the lower the better. And the lower the less calories you burn. It seems to me, the only way to interpret a lower caloric burn while doing the same things as others is general bodily health. Your body is operating more efficiently, and you are not out of breath from simply sitting up.
>>73126669
Lol. OF COURSE.
Look, it's like I've been saying on /fit/ for MONTHS now. Even if you SOMEHOW manage to lose eighty... ninety... ONE HUNDRED pounds... It's all about three critical factors: a person's HEIGHT, FACE, and FRAME.
Do you think Chad gives a FUCK about "TDEE" or the biggest loser (you guys)? NO. Chad sits home and eats PIZZA while you KILL YOURSELVES hitting the GYM HARD.
But if you DON'T go at ALL... good. Don't WASTE your time. And Let these gymcels ROT in the gym, HOPELESSLY trying to improve when it's all about what is GENETICALLY PREDETERMINED.
>Le metabolism meme
Your weight has alot more to do with the kinds of foods you tend to eat. Metabolism plays some role, but it's such a minor factor.
>>73126895
Not only is it a small sample size, but a potentially biased one at that.
>>73132093
I make my own meat substitute with wheat gluten. Look it up, ancient recipe from China and basically pure protein. Wouldn't be surprised if gladiators used it, because we know they were grain based vegans.
Also eating tofu. All organic leafy greens like spinach, kale, chard, and broccoli, asparagus, brussels sprouts, cabbage.
I also make green smoothies daily with lemon juice, green veggies, avacaco. Other assorted veggies. I will add starchy veggies like a green plantain or raw beet because they're not going to be digestible, more like fiber but a tasty juice.
I've been eating very well and very cheaply.
>>73126669
I thought the data in the study concluded the issue was that people who lost a lot of weight's metabolisms still thought they were super fat and they gained it all back before there could be any adjustment.
>>73132482
They're called fecal transplants and there are experiments going on to figure out how exactly they can be used to treat obesity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27090230
>>73132093
Also, I did research enemas and realized they're an ancient medicine that separate cultures across the globe routinely utilized. And up until the modern science take over, it was a very promising field.
Google Syrian Rue, especially in relation to the Soma. Solomon's seal is an ancient Chinese medicine for pancreatic function.
>>73129303
>rearranging my gut flora reversed my type one diabetes
No, no it did not. I think you mean type 2.
>>73126895
Rational American here.
>>73126895
They're not doing statistical sampling, retardo.
>>73126895
This. Furthermore, we're talking about contestants on The Biggest Loser, where your goal is to lose as much weight in as little time as possible, consequences be damned.
Every physician out there recommends diet and exercise, but none would seriously suggest doing what these people did. Your doctor will tell you to have a goal of losing 1-2 lbs per week. That's a slow and steady goal that is readily achievable without completely fucking destroying your body. There is a reason you're not supposed to go on these starvation diets. They wreak havoc on the body.
>>73134230
B.S
![1441479353494[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/cB51Nte.png "1441479353494[1].png")
>the ants came back
>they ate all of my whey
I DON'T GET PAID UNTIL NEXT FRIDAY!!!!
>>73134938
Lol I've been type one diabetic for 14 years, after I entered a diabetic coma at age 10. Never went a day without insulin.
I competed for physique, so my physical condition was not the issue. It was an entire life of destructive gut flora, and an immune system stuck on repeat for 14 years.
I used Syrian rue to retard the beta cell growth, with Solomon's seal, cinnamon and a raw vegan juices to let my body rebuild an organ that spent over a decade under attack.
>>73136734
Restart*
>>73126895
It wasn't a small sample size before they lost all that weight
>>73136105
It's not BS anyone who does a low carb diet will lose weight at a rate they never thought possible.
The trick is staying on a low carb diet, which is hard because carbs a pretty fucking great and they're in 95% of foods.
>>73126669
Body using 800 less calories a day, normal human burn rate is 2k-2.5k, that's a 30-49% reduction, that's a fucking superpower right there.
We need this kind of shit for astronaughts, think about needing to bring fucking 30% less food on a trip.
>>73127362
>kcal deficit
METABOLISMS
DO
NOT
WORK
THAT
WAY
>>73127362
Damn, that's why i have to reduce 200 kcal to my TDEE everytime i calculate it. I gain fat too fast and i loose weight too slow.
>>73133715
>>73134053
you can gain weight without gear - lots of bulking diets and newbie gains. if you stop lifting and stuffing yourself you just go back to what is a "natural" weight for your frame, diet and activity level.
used to go on /fit/ during the frank yang days and now my waist size is still the same but i'm 12 pounds lighter.
>all these excuses
These idiots don't realize that you have to keep on counting calories the rest of your life if you want to control your weight if you're an easy gainer. Most people drop the weight, then go back to their old habits without a care in the world.
There's a reason these people need to be at fat camps to understand how and why they need to eat less and move more.
>>73126669
Are they taking into account lean body mass?
>>73134489
Have you considered spirulina?
It's my favorite thing to add to a smoothie, the biggest bang for buck nutritional addition I've found
>>73126669
Too small a sample size.
What if the study group had slow metabolisms to begin with and that is why they were fat in the first place?
I'm fairly certain that white metabolic issues have a lot to do with our Neanderthal genes. I have never been fat but around the age of 20 my metabolism plummeted. I had to resort to extreme dietary measures to combat it, such as adopting a vegetarian diet and taking vitamin supplements. Even with a very restricted vegetarian diet I'm 6'2" and hover between 200 and 215 depending on the time of year.
>>73126669
> New study is out that shows that fat people have permanently altered their metabolisms for the worse.
Their bodies are more efficient, how is that worse?
