![Marx_old[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/5IeYV51.jpg "Marx_old[1].jpg")
Where do capitalism and free market really fail? Is there are country where capitalism works flawlessly?
Everywhere.
No.
Capitalism isn't meant to be a flawless system, that's why it fucking works.
>>73090764
The third world in particular, everywhere in general.
No.
>>73090764
KEKEKEKEKEKKEKEKEEKEKEEKKEKEEK POsting from a 3rd wold commie country now check em Faggot
>>73090764
No country runs flawlessly regardless of system, and it never will
>>73090764
KEKEKEKEKEKKEKEKEEKEKEEKKEKEEK POsting from a pisspoor commie country now check em Faggot
>>73090764
Capitalism = Democracy
Only works if it's true like after world war 2 where there actually was an open market. You could see that not only the rich people profited but that in the US and Europe the middle class and lower class as well rose. Everyone their lifestyle improved. Then the federal reserve and the arms industry put a monopoly on it and destroyed everything basically. After JFK was assasinated their coup was completed
>>73091178
Maybe not, but some are a lot less flawed than others.
>>73091237
>Capitalism = democracy
>>73090764
There is a country where it works flawlessly.
A great and mighty land.
>>73091281
Sure, but the answer to OP:s question is no
Capitalism still beats the commies though
>>73091471
In western imperialist nations, kind of.
Everywhere else, lmao no they'd be better off with socialism. But of course that would our profits so the western world can't have that.
>>73091144
>>73091195
Why did you post twice? Guess the first time you posted as a Flemish, and the second -- as a Walloon. Such is life with a split personality.
>>73090764
POLAN!
VE STRONK! VE SUPERPOWER NAU! LITERALLY BEST 25 YEARS IN THE LAST 1000!!!!!!111jedenjedenjedenascie
> just 2 mln left the country
> just 1.2 children per family
> press owned by Germany
> indigenous industry literally BTFOed
> predicted retirement money REALLY small (ever heard about 50 euro?)
BUT THESE FUCKING SMALL INCONVENIENCES!!!! VE NEED EBEN MORE CAPITALISM AND SHIT!!!! VE WANT LITERALLY A COLONY ON MARS, VENUS, MOON AND ON PLUTO AT LEAST!
>>73091384
>socialism has anything to do with freedom
>>73091384
>Some inbred Muslim replies to me
One of the main problems with capitalism is the tendency for globalism and the hindrance of autarky, Advertisements are also extremely dangerous, Bezmenov spoke about the evil of advertisements.
I've always been leaning towards a "National Capitalism" type ideology. That means, there are limits on what corporations can do, but we won't tax them at 50-100% like socialists do. Like, for example, you can't promote drugs or junk food in advertisements, whatever you put out has to follow a moral code. Shit like FCKH8 and McDonalds would be banned from my Whitetopia.
>>73091725
>The means of production, and thus everything else that matters, are controlled privately rather than democratically.
>Capitalism is freedom
>>73091669
LOL mate at least everything's cheaper in your country. That's why Lithuanians craving for cheaper toilet paper are flowing to your Northeast towns.
>>73091828
>you can't promote drugs or junk food in advertisements
Why not?
>>73090931
exactly.
>>73091782
You shouldn't be surprised. Socialism is pretty popular out in Bangladesh.
>>73091946
Because fat drug addicts aren't good for anyone, least of all themselves.
>>73091946
They harm the healthiness of the people, they kill the population in exchange for shekels.
>>73091604
How are you so sure of that? Many former socialist countries are and were thirld world countries because of their previous system
A lot of eastern Europe is still recovering from the past
>>73092139
>>73092144
Who are you to tell others what they can or can't ingest?
>>73091889
Wait so who's gonna clean the streets when everyone is "liberated"?
>>73091410
>be American
>be afraid to go to the doctor's because you can't pay the bills
>>73092158
On the contrary eastern Europe is only half-way decent because of socialism. Were places like the former USSR and the Balkans to be capitalist they would be third-world tier.
>>73092233
>be European
>go to doctor
>die waiting in line
Rather be in debt than dead ngl
>>73092228
People, they just get paid an acceptable amount.
>>73092222
A society based on pure individualism and "well if it doesn't harm me, I don't care" is not a strong society, it cannot defend itself coherently because everyone thinks for themselves, and not for the good of the people.
>>73092434
If you think only for yourself and your own survival then you will confront an external threat with more animosity than a man who is fighting only for duty and a paycheck.
>>73092393
fuckin rare
Capitalism fails when monopoly and profits get in the way of customer satisfaction. Free market fails when there are too many negative externalities
>>73092393
>>die waiting in line
This is what rareflags actually believe.
>>73092529
The man must not fight for duty and a paycheck, he must fight to defend his homeland, culture, language and people.
>>73090764
Capitalism and free markets do a lot of good things, but they have huge downsides.
1. As Keynes noted in opposition to orthodox economics, capitalist economies can enter a steady-state of secular stagnation and relatively high unemployment
2. As Piketty shows, capitalism tends towards rising inequality as a feature.
3. The demands of capitalists for sound money, no deficit spending, super low inflation almost always clash with the democratic desires.
>>73092346
How would it be thirld world without socialism?
>>73092713
Do you believe that's why most people sign up for the military? If that were the case, those best suited to combat would not be confined to a desk sorting through inane paperwork. We would have more specialized elite units, not a conglomerate of grunt units to use as fodder and then bomb the location of once we find the enemy.
>>73090764
Capitalism fails in countries that are below sea level.
Everybody has to chip in to protect muh dykes.
>>73091946
He has a point, actually. Drugs and junk food could be put into the same category with tobacco and alcohol. But it's more a question of ethics though.
>>73090764
>Where do capitalism and free market really fail?
Nowhere.
>Is there any country where capitalism works flawlessly?
Yes. All of them. All incidents of so-called "flaws of capitalism" in predominantly free markets are caused by state intervention. The 2008 recession, for instance, was an exceptionally strong downturn in the business cycle because of legislation passed by Bill Clinton that intervened in the housing market.
>>73092408
Isn't that what the comic is trying to fix?
>>73093114
Wasn't the 2008 crisis mainly a 'muh greedy bankers' thing?
>>73092858
Because they were horrendously underdeveloped, then socialism came along and with it education, healthcare, literacy and infrastructure skyrocketed.
The only possible exceptions to this are Slovenia and the Czech Republic which are perfectly nice places.
>>73093252
No, the comic is trying to fix the proletariat having their labour exploited by capitalists.
>>73092408
Everyone who is employed is being paid an acceptable amount. If the amount offered to them in compensation for their labour was not acceptable, they wouldn't take the job. It is impossible for a voluntary transaction, such as labour for wages, to be 'unfair'. If one side or the other held that position, the transaction would not take place.
>>73091384
>mfw an actual commie labour voter posted in my presence
>>73090764
Capitalism fails when you have an uneducated citizenry or excessively repressive government. They are unable to utilize their existing natural resources or come up with an alternative source of revenue such as banking (Barbados and Switzerland) or high-end manufacturing (Israel) are naturally taken advantage by more powerful countries.
Of course this happens under Socialism too, but don't tell the Marxists that or they'll get triggered.
>>73093275
Slovenia is doing well because it was already the leading country during the Cold War. Starting positions matter a lot.
>>73093432
>If the pittance offered to them to compensate for their labour was not acceptable, they wouldn't take the job
Yes, and they subsequently be homeless.
Glorious capitalism at work.
>>73091945
what about you become our colony and ve give you cheap toilet paper, huh?
deal?
>>73093659
I mean, leading in the context of other Yugoslavian state
>>73093114
When America and Britain had a free market they failed. Look at the British Empire.
>>73090764
How's the commie block treating ya, Jonas?
>>73093838
Just get rid of PiS and we can bring back the Commonwealth
>>73091828
>whatever you put out has to follow a moral code
forcing someone to do stuff you want him to do is immoral though. (provided the person wasn't gonna break any moral side constraints, like kill another human bean)
Authoritarians shouldn't use words they don't understand, like morality and ethics. just stick to arguing with feelings, like women, we like you more that way.
>>73090764
Is there even one wealthy country that doesn't have extremely high tax and hands out money to fat cunts?
>>73093803
>Yes, and they subsequently be homeless.
No. They would subsequently get a different job. If every job's pay was too little, no one would be employed and every enterprise would be out of business. Before that would happen, though, business that would rather make a profit than not (read: every business ever) would raise their wages so that they could hire the workers they needed. Economic equilibrium is always maintained in a free market. The reason this do not occur in the real world, and we have allocative inefficiency, is because of state intervention (and to a lesser extent externalities).
>>73093918
When did the British Empire's economy ever remotely resemble a free market? The economic theory that was practised by imperialists in Great Britain was mercantilism—that is, a combination of protectionism and bullionism.
>>73094048
do you think PiS is eternal?
>>73094332
>They would subsequently get a different job
No, you see there's a surplus of unskilled labourers relative to the jobs available thus they would either get another job for equally terrible pay or simply remain unemployed facing homelessness because the job-market is so competitive.
> If every job's pay was too little, no one would be employed and every enterprise would be out of business
You do realize people need to feed themselves and pay rent? They simply can't afford to go "fuck this job" and leave because as I've mentioned they would subsequently be homeless, thus why capitalists always have a constant supply of wage slaves.
The thing you don't appear to understand is that economic equilibrium cannot exist in a free market because it assumes equal power on either side. The side of the proletariat simply have no bargaining power, if they refuse the job it will be easier for someone to replace them than for them to find a better one and this is the only option they have on the account that they do not control any private property - the source of all power. Capitalists on the other hand have all the negotiating power in this arrangement, for the same reason previously mentioned that when choosing employees there is no lack of unskilled labourers so it makes no odds to them if someone refuses.
>>73094660
During the 1800s when they let over a million Irish people starve to death for the sole explanation that it's just the free market at work.
>>73092222
Bad food and drugs harm the mental functioning and stability of a person, as well. How can a democracy function when a large portion of the population is doesn't have a function mind? Not to the mention the massive medical costs to the country. Is Nestle making another 20 billion worth the eventual 100 billion we pay in taxes towards medical expenses for obese diabetics?
His point wasn't even eradicating the products, just making it illegal to advertise harmful products. We basically did it with cigs.
>>73090764
The USA up until 1913 when the jews took over.
>>73090931
This desu. We live in the real world after all.
>>73091604
Worked out so well for socialist Zimbabwe of course. Not like capitalist Rhodesia was the richest country in sub-saharan Africa (and was undermined by both the capitalist west and socialist east while still being a successful nation).
>>73095688
>Socialist Zimbabwe
Zimbabwe was never socialist, not even nominally.
>>73090764
>>73090931
>Capitalism isn't meant to be a flawless system, that's why it fucking works.
FUCKING THIS. Capitalism isn't a perfect system, but it's the best system we got. Capitalism recognizes that there is gonna be suffering in the world and some people are gonna be poor but there isn't really anything that you can do about it and trying to make things better for them ends up fucking everyone else up.
>>73095110
>No, you see there's a surplus of unskilled labourers relative to the jobs available
In which case the necessary portion of those unskilled labourers enter training and become skilled labourers, accommodating to the needs of the market.
>You do realize people need to feed themselves and pay rent? They simply can't afford to go "fuck this job" and leave
Yes, and businesses also can't afford to say "fuck actually running this business" and refuse to hire at the wages demanded by the market. Workers need to work and employers need to employ. The rate at which employers pay these workers should be determined by market factors, like the type of work and the training necessary to accomplish it.
>The side of the proletariat simply have no bargaining power, if they refuse the job it will be easier for someone to replace them than for them to find a better one and this is the only option they have on the account that they do not control any private property - the source of all power.
"Proletariat" don't exist, or at least they don't exist in any significant number in Western countries. The workers of the modern day DO have bargaining power beyond their labour. You and I both have enough disposable income for computers and/or smartphones, and the internet connection to run them. Neither of us are members of the proletariat. There's also a good chance we both have cars, and a reasonably high chance we both have money stored away earning interest in a bank—making us dirty capitalists!
Besides that, there's also the fact that there is more than one prospective employer in the world, making it impossible for employers to pay wages below market equilibrium. If business A's wages are too low, business B offers more and is able to run their business whilst business A is stuck in the mud.
>>73095835
ZANU are hardline Marxist-Leninists, always have been. They have all the typical features of a socialist one party-state.The communist party of Britain (another ML group) has praised them. Land redistribution has been the cornerstone of every single socialist state ever, and it has ended disastrously in Zimbabwe, much to my amusement. Of course, I'm sure this wasn't real socialism, and we'll just have to wait for the next catastrophe.
>>73096601
1. ZANU aren't hardline Marxist-Leninists, they're social democrats.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwe_African_National_Union
2. They didn't even claim to be socialist, Marxist-Leninist or otherwise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_state
Rhodieboos cannot get any stupider.
The goal of capitalism is to destroy itself and be replaced with something better. The process can't be rushed with government intervention because that only serves to slow down production. We cannot surpass capitalism until we are capable of producing massive surpluses of resources that eliminate the need for constant human labor. Pretty much every great mind in economics agreed on this point except Marx and friends because they base their philosophy in the labor theory of value.
This theory by David Ricardo essentially states that the prices of commodities reflect the amount of past human labor that went into making the product. This is fundamentally flawed because it doesn't take into account the present supply and demand relationship of the product at a particular time. Since Marx didn't believe that prices should be dynamic and competitive according to the contemporary market needs, his ideology is incompatible with basic economics as we know them. He actually spent most of his later life and the entire third book of Das Kapital trying to reconcile the labor theory of value with later 19th century economic thought, but ultimately died before he could finish his economic plan. He didn't even get around to explaining what a communist society would LOOK like - what institutions there would be, how people would conduct themselves, who would be in charge of things, etc. He only got as far as the proletariat overthrowing the elite and establishing a classless society. He had no idea what should happen after. This is why the world ultimately rejected Marxism.
No country has a flawless system of capitalism because that is impossible. Capitalism is the unequal sharing of wealth as opposed to the equal sharing of misery and mediocrity. It is a necessary evil for humanity until we reach the next singularity (the Industrial Revolution being the most recent singularity).
>>73092393
Nice meme.
>>73091237
Democracy harms the economy by allowing people to form interest groups (unions, lobbyists, black lives matter) so they can strong arm politicians into favoring them over other groups. Capitalism works best under a liberal republic, not necessarily democracy.
A very famous economist named Friedrich Hayek wrote about the danger of democracy up until his death in 1992. He even predicted the modern social justice movement AND coined the term "social justice." He asserts that democracy is one of the greatest threats to capitalism, and the last 8 years have made me inclined to agree. It is tyranny of the retarded majority.
>>73091410
Believe me, the young generations here will bring our economy to its knees by 2030. Too many useless college degrees, too much student debt, no one is marrying, hardly anyone has sex regularly, no one wants kids. Same shit as in Europe, but a couple decades behind you guys.
>>73091828
National Capitalism is called Corporatism, or as you may have heard before, Fascism. It's when the government uses the private sector for its own interests.
>>73090931
Well said.
>>73093275
>complete reversal of reality
>>73095688
>>73096601
Mugabe calls himself a Marxist, but has very little in common with other socialist/communist governments.
>le true socialism strawman
He is literally taking radical departures even from Stalinist policy. He and his wife are filthy rich, the government takes no measures to guarantee employment (unemployment and inflation are among the worst on Earth), and there is no trace of workers' self-management.
>>73098101
m8, you gotta realize what you've been told is the reality of socialist states is not really the reality at all.
>>73094185
dubai, qutar
>>73090764
Nothing works with kikes.
>>73098339
ditto
>>73090931
>that's why it fucking works
>>73090980
>The third world in particular, everywhere in general.
dude since markets have been proposed in the third world, they have seen a growth in IQ, population adn wealth never seen before.
I think you underestimate how africa is poor
>>73100245
Since open-markets have been proposed by the IMF in Africa they've also had a much harder time reacting to famines.
You just can't win with capitalism.
>>73091828
yeah, but then the government gets to decide what is moral or not. And with the SWJs' numbers continuing to rise, that only means that they will ultimately have at least some influence in the government's decisions
>>73096853
>they're social democrats
The constant bickering over what constitutes real socialism is what turned me off the left. All the way to Bakunin and Marx, Kronstadt and Trotsky, the left has constantly used the convenient illusions of state capitalism and social democracy (which was a creation of a Marxist, Bernstein, social democracy is still Marxism.) to deflect any criticism of Marxist theory being put into practice. If your ideology requires shifting the goalposts that much, it's not a particularly good one. As soon as the (((Bolshevik)))) Revolution happened you had the likes of Luxemburg screeching.
>>73098328
>He and his wife are filthy rich
Took a leaf out of Brezhnev's book then
>the government takes no measures to guarantee employment
Thanks to Mugabe's Afrocentric Marxist mismanagement of the last 30 years, there's very little action he could take to change anything.
>workers' self-management
this was a complete farce even in Yugoslavia
>>73090764
nothing is a failure if it is a success by fiat
>>73100616
I'm not shifting the goal-posts, that's simply the idea they subscribe to.
It's absolutely universally agreed that social democracy isn't socialism, its explicit goal is to promote social justice in the framework of a capitalist economy as opposed to socialism's worker control of the means of production.
This is not shifting the goalposts, this is you realizing you're wrong and claiming shifting the goalposts so you don't look like an idiot that doesn't know what social democracy is or even social democracy for that matter.
AMERICA
>>73090931
So you do admit there are flaws in capitalism?
>>73098339
just stop please.
lok up Austria's and Czech Rep's GDP per capita pre communism. or pick up a book.
>>73102434
>Muh GDP
Looking relevant is not as important as not having citizens who are homeless.
>>73101095
That's one definition. Others define it as achieving socialism through gradual means rather than revolution (literally Bernstein's definition, the creator of the term and ideology). Most social-democratic parties remain committed to achieving socialism. Most "social-democratic" parties in the West are riddled with Trotskyists like John McDonnell, so to deny that they want socialism is to deny reality.
"worker control of the means of production" is a totally airy phrase, because the state socialists claim it entails collective ownership through nationalisation, and libertarian socialists say this is actually capitalism, and the left-eating-itself cycle continues.
Like I said, I used be a leftist before realising they're good goys, so I'm well aware of their terminology.
>>73090931
Well said
>>73090764
What do you mean fail? Recessions and depressions are part of the market. Capitalism can't fail until labour is 100% automated.
>>73101765
Capitalism has flaws because it is flawed; not the other way around.
>>73102632
Worker control of the means of production is simply a declarative statement of the socialist state of affairs, if that's not what you're striving for then you're not a socialist. The goal of social democratic parties is social justice, as opposed to the realization of a workers state.
Not to mention the labour party aren't exactly social democrats, many of them are in fact bone fide socialists.
>"worker control of the means of production" is a totally airy phrase, because the state socialists claim it entails collective ownership through nationalisation, and libertarian socialists say this is actually capitalism, and the left-eating-itself cycle continues.
1. It's exactly what it means, worker control of the means of production. This means workers democratically decide on how their workplaces are run. Even nominally this was the purpose of soviets.
2. Libertarian socialists don't say that it is actually capitalism. Like all socialists they're against private property.
>>73102573
buzzwords, feelings, non-sequiturs.
try again.
>>73103626
>Guaranteed housing is a buzzword.
Incredible.
>>73090764
Capitalism works fine with controls. Hyper capitalism is a weaponized version meant to create resistance to capitalist systems. Jew/commie/globalist end game is a hybrid of hyper capitalism and communism. The communism in that system is for the people and the capitalism for the jews.
Private property and trade isn't an ideology, the ideology of capitalism is invented by Marxists.
>>73104851
>Private property isn't an ideology.
No one knew of capitalism anymore than they knew of laws of nature, build a ant colony it belongs to the builders.
>>73105025
It isn't it's a law of nature.
>>73105134
>Abstract constructs are laws of nature.
You try to take someone's production they will fight you and it's more valuable to do trade.
>>73105410
It isn't abstract, it's natural law someone can always enforce private property you can't always have no private property forever.
>>73105474
1. No they don't or otherwise we'd have had a communist revolution by now.
2. So it is but communism isn't anti-trade.
>>73090764
They lack of Christianity or christian-like morals. Capitalism can work but you need to be less of a dickhead and more human, if not your aren't better than a godless commie
>>73105655
They're both enforced the exact same way, state force.
On one hand you can have the state enforcing property on the behalf of individual capitalists, or you can have the state enforcing their own claim to it. Neither is more unfeasible than another.
>>73101765
Yes, better to have some flaws that actually work within reality than be completely flawed in every aspect like socialism.
>>73105823
Private property is enforced through force of the people.
>>73106072
No, it's enforced through the force of the police.
>>73105823
The individual can always enforce his private property this always exists, no private property does not always exist.
>>73106148
It's enforced through a man with a knife or a gun telling you to fuck off or you will die.
>>73090764
>"Constant revolutionising of production, uninterrupted disturbance of all social conditions, everlasting uncertainty and agitation distinguish the bourgeois epoch from all earlier ones. All fixed, fast-frozen relations, with their train of ancient and venerable prejudices and opinions, are swept away, all new-formed ones become antiquated before they can ossify. All that is solid melts into air"
What did he mean by this?
>>73106232
He cannot without becoming a state, and he definitely cannot enforce his claim to the scale of property that top level capitalists have without hiring private security companies to stand in for the police that I assume do not exist in this scenario.
Private property is a man-made abstraction, if humans can be made to learn of it, they can be made to unlearn it with time.
>>73106297
M8, I'm not sure if America really is like the wild-west but over here people just call the cops.
>>73106542
If I have a gun and tell you if you enter In this area I will kill you what do I achieve?
>>73090764
>Where do capitalism and free market really fail?
They don't.
>Is there are country where capitalism works flawlessly?
There isn't a country where anything works flawlessly.
>>73106639
It is like that normially home invaders and thrives are shot and killed.
>>73106656
Going to prison because we don't have castle laws and shit here unlike in Shootland.
>>73105025
Protection of a certain area for the exclusive use of it's inhabitants is nature, unless you think that various animals have developed culture.
It is the best system in theory as it is based off merit and growth. Meritocracy is vital to society however some become too powerful and corrupt it and in that way it is as fallible as communism.
>>73106926
That's an anti prole law, from a bourgeois state , the prole has a God given right to defend his property from thieves.
>>73107027
Animals definitely do develop communities and defend what they see as their stuf, but what they definitely don't do is work as wageslaves or form businesses based on their primitive notions of territory.
Animals can also develop class-consciousness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL45pVdsRvE
>>73107403
You are really stupid, private property is nature, the strong cease their production and property, being anti property means you're weak.
>>73107562
>private property is nature
It was also once believed that humans could be property, but human consciousness changed.
Likewise it can change again to cease recognizing the means of production as property.
>>73107562
Simply from a new state and take as much production as you can or if you already belong to a nation in your economic interest, take the production of others imperialism is the highest morality.
>>73107403
>monkeys chimp out because they don't get the same shit
>class consciousness
I think someone deserves a free helicopter ride for their excellent animal behavior analyses.
>>73107765
Humans can be property and should.
>>73107873
I agree, which is why capitalism is evil.
>>73107765
Humans can be propert the should varies opinions.
>>73107945
Evil from an inferior person.
>>73107923
>ancap morality
OK, Dr. Rothbard.
>>73107945
Well evil from your opinion I have no clue where your atheistic morality comes from.
>>73108138
I say truth, they can are and have been for history the bible doesn't condemn it.
>>73108289
The bible also strongly encourages communist ideas, like demonizing the rich, exalting the humble and emphasizing the importance of equality.
>>73108173
Probably from a Marxo-bourgeois educational and media system.
>>73108507
Like death for thievery?
>>73107908
hahaha ebin XDDDD
>>73108627
That's the old covenant Torah, m8.
>>73108743
How about the mentions of nations and borders? With the godliness building a border
>>73091384
did leftypol literally just rip off le happy merchant?
can't you redditchan retards do anything original?
>>73090764
Capitolism doesnt work because it leads to corporate monopolies and globalist command economies.
Nationalist Capitolism may work.
It benefits third worlders. Sorta. Often Capitolist corperations have HQs in socialist lands while supporting foreign dictators.
>>73108951
It's actually from Soviet Propaganda that predates the artistic masterpieces of A. Wyatt Mann by many decades.
capitalism <3
It's a realistic solution to a very complex problem.
>>73091410
Not enough pixels in your American flag.
>>73109214
I can see why they did not go with the first panel
but now knowing the style, the pig is just that much worse
>>73109214
The memetic purpose is the same you dumb cunt, by mentioning Wyatt you should have realized that's what i meant since I'm not saying /pol/ invented the caricature.
>>73090931
damn son
>>73108705
Wow mate, you sure got me.
>>73109214
Obviously /pol/ didn't create the merchant and /leftypol/ didn't create the pig capitalist but both images are used in the same context for the same purpose.
>>73109505
Well in that case yes, Porky does serve more or less the same purpose as le happy merchant. The difference lies in the ideological bent.
It could be said that capitalist pig-men are so old that the meme itself is even older than /leftypol/ so they didn't rip off anything, but at the same time crafty-Jew pictures have been around for thousands of years. So I suppose both memes just tap into an innate human recognition of what an untrustworthy character looks like.
>>73091828
So basically not capitalism. Got it.
>>73092393
>be European
>rarely go to doctor
>get what you need free
go home, live longer life, healthier life than average American.
>>73090764
Capitalism is the worst form of economic structure except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
>>73103347
>Capitalism has flaws
>There are flaws in Capitalism
>>73096591
if you work for wages you are absolutely a member of the proletariat, whether you like it or not
>>73110423
Capitalism is garbage this financio-exploitative system is trash barter/mercantilist would be better.
>>73091384
so many capitalists butthurt over this comment.
>>73110573
I am a member of my nation, my class needs to be conquered by my nation same with the other classes, different roles and pay same path.
>>73106757
what about when the bank comes for your house. who do you shoot then?
>>73111225
I use a different currency and urge the prole to do the same we and our producer comrades along with our bosses will stamp out the thieves.
>>73110989
Not everyone can afford their mom paying for everything in their lives while they post on the internet about the evil rich people who are NOT jews btw
>>73105937
You mean unless it's you getting fucked instead of me right?
>There are flaws in capitalism
>There are flaws in socialism
Cool beans, well I guess I'll just compare and see what works for me. You wouldn't have a problem with that right?
>>73110139
>feelsgoodman.jpg
Something to watch lads:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVa4ERqz97o
>>73101765
flaws in capitalism are like flaws in real life. No amount of bitching is going to bring about world peace. You can either cry like a bitch or laugh.
greed drives progress. capitalism exploits the fact that humanity is nothing but a pathetic rat race. to think society can produce selflessness reliably is stupid
>>73105025
>using stirner
>being a commie
Pick one faggot. Egoism and leftist schools of thought are incompatible.
>>73112966
I'm not an egoist, but it's undeniable that private property is a spook of the highest order.
>>73112966
2sp00ky4me
>>73090764
>Where do capitalism and free market really fail?
nowhere
>Is there are country where capitalism works flawlessly?
any country that doesn't fuck it up with keynesism and/or welfare state
>>73113036
Are you a breathist or a living it's? How about a pleasureist or a painavoidist?
>>73113036
You can't just pick and choose differnt arguements from different schools of thought. To use spooks as an argument without proving it in a way that doesn't logically end with what Stirner advocated only hurts your argument
>>73113230
I love how in this picture they tried to make the capitalist description of socialism as verbose and articulate-seeming as possible but it's still absolutely and totally wrong.
More or less sums up Austrian schoolers in general tbqh.
>>73112637
Capitalism is the economic form of life. Animals don't do shit unless they get something out of it. They don't just exert energy for no reason.
Socialist and communist must understand there is no such thing as a free lunch. This is true in every facet of the world. A chemical reaction does not gain energy without something else losing energy.
>>73101765
There are flaws in capitalism. However, it seems flawless when compared to the other shit systems liberals are pulling out of their asses.
>>73113036
>muh ebul spooks
fuck off
>>73113472
Are we talking about the image or Carl Marx?
Any economic system of government distribution is retarded.
All you really need to know to btfo communist/socialist is that labour does not equal value.
>>73113472
Tell me commie, why shpuld we redistribute wealth to the poor?
>>73114016
I'm talking about the image, it looks promising from the thumbnail but then
>The aim of socialism is to bring the lower-class into the middle-class and dissolve the upper-class.
That one never ever gets old.
>>73106926
>breathing air is made illegal without taxation
>breathing is an ideology
>>73113544
>They don't just exert energy for no reason.
Unfortunately capitalism boils everything down to the subjective 'value' and then tries to nail it down with hard rules. At it's best it produces gems like the supply/demand/equilibrium. At it's worst it's a blatant faith system full of circular logic and 'it just werks'
>>73114286
Because i am for the poor you can be an enemy of them.
>>73114286
We shouldn't, we should end the concept of private property so in truth no one owns the means anymore - but rather the working class are free to decide their own working conditions and keep the maximum possible value for their efforts.
Why should we do this? Out of rational self-interest, it would be of infinite benefit to 99.999% of the planet to be communist.
>>73113544
You're grossly oversimplifying the entire matter by implying that capitalism is some sort of harmonious inter-organism universal balance present in every aspect of living things and that all forms of socialism somehow deny science.
>>73114491
Burning calories and resources isn't subjective
>>73114802
See. >>73114016
>labour does not equal value.
>>73097861
Democracy would be great if we only allow white land owners to vote and kept going with the eugenics movement.
>>73114732
But why should we act out of self interest? And more over, what about the self interest of those who benefit from the current system? Why should they be made to suffer?
And where is the evidence or reason proving your claim the majority would benefit?
>>73090764
Well if you're assuming the US is a captalist country then your whole perception on the definition is fucked
>>73114802
Socialism isn't somehow in denial of that.
>>73115107
Because it would improve our quality of lives. I enjoy being happy, so I would like to follow my self interest.
>And more over, what about the self interest of those who benefit from the current system? Why should they be made to suffer?
Because they conflict with my interests. They also conflict with the interests of the overwhelming majority of the planet so if me and everyone else were to be able to unite on this issue the parasitic bourgeoisie would be powerless to resist.
>And where is the evidence or reason proving your claim the majority would benefit?
I'd recommend you read the Triumph of Evil on America's victory in the cold war.
Socialist/communist want to be slaves. They're afraid of economic freedom, just like a slave will be afraid when he realizes he has to provide his own meals.
You people are essentially asking to be taken care of like children. The problem is you think that everyone loves being submissive cuck slaves like you.
>>73115720
>They also conflict with the interests of the overwhelming majority of the planet so if me and everyone else were to be able to unite on this issue the parasitic bourgeoisie would be powerless to resist.
Prove it. Moreover, unless you're something like a utilitarian, that doesn't make it right. Provide a logical reason that doesn't involve an appeal to the majority
>>73106926
You say that like you're proud of it, you gormless twat
>>73116029
>prove it
Okay
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Revolution
If the proletariat want something bad enough to fight for it, they will get it.
> Provide a logical reason that doesn't involve an appeal to the majority
Well first I suppose I'd need to know what you desire in life.
>>73092393
sup Greenland
>>73115720
>They also conflict with the interests of the overwhelming majority of the planet
Citation needed
I recommend you read Communism the Theory Invented by a Basement Dweller Economic Retard.
>Still can't explain how labour has value
>still can't explain how you prevent power hungry dictators
>still can't explain how communism is any different than feudalism without getting to keep some of your own products.
>>73092970
put yer finger in a dyke
>>73116307
How does that prove the majority of people on planet earth want communism?
Niggers probably couldn't even comprehend the system.
>>73093253
Also the drug cartels pulled a lot of their money out of the economy, due to US intervention. Turns out pretty much all the real money was drug money lol
>>73093918
US markets failed because of government intervention faggot. Read a book
>>73093253
The Fed teaming up with the US government lowered interest rates artificially which leaded to banks doing poor investments and loans.
If the government and central bank monopoly didn't lower interest rates artificially, there wouldn't have been such a loans craze and there wouldn't have been such a bubble.
>>73116609
The majority of people would be richer, and better off if they controlled their own work places without the bourgeoisie profitting off of them - thus they would be better off without them.
>How labour has value
It doesn't at the point of creation, but at the point of sale value is exchanged - were this value to be given entirely to the people who created it they would get a better share as opposed to dividing the value between workers and property owners.
>how you prevent power hungry dictators
By neutrering the state as much as possible whilst also empowering the people. I think our own Northern Ireland is an excellent model for this, the state is so bureaucratic and inefficient that it is more or less useless for anything beyond preserving the status quo whilst also being immune to the problems of the USSR's bureaucracy of being run more or less by a single generation and collapsing when they died. Were the people to be given a right to bear arms on top of this it would give the state a greater level of accountability.
>>still can't explain how communism is any different than feudalism without getting to keep some of your own products.
Because you aren't bound to your feudal lord nor do you work the land for him, you work the land for youself and the closest thing you're really bound to is your own community albeit loosely.
>>73116822
The majority of people don't want communism, but they would if they understood it. Thus is the main struggle of communism.
>>73096300
Charity for teh poor
>>73116307
>If the proletariat want something bad enough to fight for it, they will get it.
So you're saying might makes right
>>73117726
Not exactly, right is to an extent subjective. I'm sure the capitalist getting his factory nationalized doesn't think this is right at all.
Might however does make reality.
>>73090764
Well, it's pretty fucking great for actually getting a nation prosperous. Usually fucks over the worker really hard in the transition stage though, and if left unchecked will allow corporations to exploit people like motherfuckers.
You can't argue with the results tho, unless we all get fucked over in 50-100 years because lmao noresources
>>73097025
This. How does socialism determine value? I don't understand why people even believe in this stuff. Proletariat being subject to the state and no property rights.. redistribution of land. Its a f00kin ponzi scheme m8s
Capitalism is the most humane system we have developed. It just always gets tampered with too much by people who want to abuse it.
>>73097861
The founders knew this as well. That's why the US isn't a democracy.
>>73117895
So then, seeing as no communist nation has might that communsim is not reality, correct?
>>73118632
At present, communism is not the reality because it is not the current state of being. This does not mean that it's unchangeable.
>>73100398
Thats Croney capitalism and central banking and yeah that shit fails too
>>73117621
>The majority of people would be richer, and better off if they controlled their own work places without the bourgeoisie profitting off of them - thus they would be better off without them.
But thats not true moron.
>were this value to be given entirely to the people who created it they would get a better share ect ect ect
But the creators of a product do own that product. Are you suggesting letting the makers of a product own the product they didn't event? What would be the point in inventing a product? You know if you were to take the entire paycheck of the wallmart CEO and distribute it to workers they would all make an extra 5 dollars a year. You vastly over estimate the wealth of people.
>By neutrering the state as much as possible whilst also empowering the people.
>nueter the state
>give the state all your monies
>empower the peoples by taking away their value
>Because you aren't bound to your feudal lord nor do you work the land for him
Who am I working for than? How can I work the land for myself if private property doesn't exist and all of my work goes to the state to be redistributed?
I think your confused Anon.
>The majority of people don't want communism, but they would if they understood it. Thus is the main struggle of communism.
The majority of people don't want nazism but they would if they understood it. This is the main struggle of nazism
Do you see how thats not a citation or an argument
>>73104110
No it needs less controls to work properly
>>73118719
So then, seeing as communsim is not a reality, you would agree that it could be described as a fantasy.
>>73106639
Property rights are sacred here. As is self defense and personal responsibility.
I take the stance that you gain far more by preventing problems than by handling them as they arise.
Like the problems caused by drugs, poverty, poor education etc, where the final cost is far higher than the cost for a proper system that helps people avoid and get out of these situations.
And I mean, yeah, you can take the view "fuck it, they can escape poverty if they really want it", and while it's technically true, it doesn't actually work. Most people who are born into poverty die in poverty, and the 1% who escape the ghettoes are neither representative for most people or a very good batting average.
>>73117621
Just another quick question for you. How often do you volunteer or donate to charity?
Nothing is stopping people in a capitalist society to donate to the poor or volunteer to help them. You don't have to put a gun to someones head and force them to pay into your charity where 90% of the wealth goes to the charity owners.
>>73107945
Capitalism is the freest and most humane economic system that exists. There is no such thing as a wageslave. People work voluntarily, unlike socialism.
>>73109132
Are you trying to make a point?
>>73119026
>But thats not true moron.
Okay, what makes you think that?
>But the creators of a product do own that product. Are you suggesting letting the makers of a product own the product they didn't event? What would be the point in inventing a product? You know if you were to take the entire paycheck of the wallmart CEO and distribute it to workers they would all make an extra 5 dollars a year. You vastly over estimate the wealth of people.
1. Intellectual property is also a massive crock of shit.
2. It's not just about the wealth, it's also about the freedom involved like being able to democratically decide on their own working conditions.
>Who am I working for than? How can I work the land for myself if private property doesn't exist and all of my work goes to the state to be redistributed?
It doesn't necessarily, there's a number of different ways a system could go about it.
>Do you see how thats not a citation or an argument
You've got me there I suppose, I can't argue with that logic.
>>73090931
works for who?
every system "works" for some group or another
>>73110989
Well yeah cuz its a false equivalency. Democracy is Tyranny
>>73096300
>capitalism
>best system we got
>>73119771
>People work voluntarily
Well, "voluntarily" in the sense that the alternative is much worse. Kinda like saying that people choose to eat shit because the alternative is biting a bullet.
Sure, someone with a family to support is technically free to quit his job and go live innawoods, but you know, nobody would ever do that.
>>73119771
>Sell your self to the bourgeoisie or starve
Wow, what great options. It's no wonder people invariably """"volunteer""""" for the former.
>>73103347
i dont how but you just made a perfectly circular argument out of a straight line
slow clap
>>73090764
>there are country where capitalism works flawlessly?
Not sure but some will clame being able to buy a new iPhone once every year with also a 12 day holiday per year in a foreign country with having to work 300 days for it is a good system. Others will however claime that the group of before are 'slaves of capitalism'
>>73114732
Are you trolling or just retarded?
>>73119681
>And I mean, yeah, you can take the view "fuck it, they can escape poverty if they really want it", and while it's technically true, it doesn't actually work. Most people who are born into poverty die in poverty.
Citation needed.
Stop being such a dumbass. Do you know why national parks have signs to not feed animals? Its because animals will become dependent on human food and eventually they will stop hunting and foraging. This makes the animals lazy. The animals then sit there all day waiting for humans to feed them. These animals are now completely reliant on the humans handouts. They wouldn't know how to survive without them. Then they start having children who never learn to hunt either. Suddenly the humans run out of food. I know you feel bad for those animals but they would be better off if they had to fend for themselves.
This is what welfare states do.
>>73090931
IT
DOESN'T
AFFECT
YOU
>>73120584
>im not ignorant on this subject,i cant be, because i decided so, therefore because im befuddled, he must be retard or troll
>>73120747
>capitalist country
>it's capitalism does not affect its citizens
>>73120332
Whats wrong with living in the forest foraging for food?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq0rZn8HFmQ
Economic freedom is not freedom. Slaves have economic freedom.
>>73120365
>starve
Start a farm, fish and hunt.
>>73121087
>The only way to escape the system that rewards private property is to have private property
Simply genius.
>>73121087
>appeal to accomplishment
>false dilemma
i KNOW you've got more, lets hear them
>>73121324
Private property is natural.
>>73096300
All of this fucking ideology.
>Capitalism has problems but like trying to fix those problems would be really bad because like reasons and muh free market
>>73120365
Or innovate and get rich themselves
>>73120732
But running with your example, all these animals would just straight-up die, since they would never learn to hunt anyway. Not the best analogy, bud.
I'm talking about the difference in just throwing them money in some dipshit attempt to solve everything, or actually working on socio-economic issues to give more people the OPPORTUNITY to rise above poverty.
If you believe that a kid living in the ghetto has the same opportunities as a middle-class kid you're really fucking dumb. It doesn't happen, and a lost kid isn't plus/minus 0, it's a direct negative if that person decided to deal drugs or rob a store or some other stupid shit.
It's like treating a wound before it becomes an infection, is my point. It's a huge issue, but I reject the idea that the best way to solve is to go "eh, fuck it".
>>73121545
force exists therefore private property is an extension of the reality of force.
predatory opportunists sharks. always needs some kind of regulation.
kikes are a good example.
>>73121324
>today I am a bear
>I do not starve
>commie says that priv property makes him starve
>commies inferior to bears
>>73121692
>Just bootstrap your way out of it, bro.
>>73121423
>appeal to accomplishment
what?
>false dilema
isn't that what being a starving person in a free market capitalist society is.
Fine don't live off the land. just work for someone and save up until you can make your own business. Not that hard in a free market.
>>73121681
Its like trying to fix a tumor by cutting your head off.
>>73121983
High time preferences and low intelligence is linked directly to poverty. The fact that you think you cannot effect the future and are not intelligent enough to think otherwise is literally the reason you are so poor compared to the rest of us.
Intelligent people understand they can effect their future through their actions and develop to have lower time preferences which leads to greater success. Adapt or remain poor.
>>73120981
Well, you're right - nothing wrong with living of the land.
However, I do think that an alternative between working and disassociating all progress made in the last centuries, isn't exactly the shining grail of voluntary.
But it should be said I don't exaclty agree with the idea of there needing a choice - you wanna be in the society, you contribute and play by societies rules. It's pretty much human social rules 101.
