Building a wall on our southern border would actually make our immigration/drug/terrorist problem worse. All the evidence points to this. We can look at prohibition: it created a large black market for moonshine. We can look at the war on drugs: it created a large prison population instead of reducing the overall amount of crimes. It does nothing but create a demand for the very thing you are trying to stop. If you built a wall you would do nothing more than create a demand, you'd empower more people to get across our border by other means. As of now the smuggling industry is huge, if we did not criminalize immigration as much as we did then that industry would be weakened greatly. People would not be forced to carry out extreme criminal acts, they could get to the U.S. without the terrible experience of being smuggled over (where often times women are raped along the way). Of course this is just a summary of the overall negative influence a wall would have on our border. I was just trying to point out some of the flawed reasoning Trump/Cruz supporters have for their wall idea.
>>72541887
if you defeat your enemies they win
>>72541887
>if you kill your enemies they win
>>72541945
FPBP
>if you fight crime crime gets worse so don't
ok carlito
>>72541945
>>72541985
That's an odd thing to say. Can you tell me how it relates to my post?
>>72541887
>Punishment is comparable to prevention
t. liberal
>if illegal immigration wasn't illegal maybe fewer people would do it
You have to go back, El Chapo
>>72542015
Look at the evidence before you repeat things out based on your own intuition.
Legalize all drugs. Kill all foreign invaders.
Problem solved.
>>72542024
Your post is fucking retarded and your arguments aren't even backed by the evidence you provide
>>72541887
You moran, you keep that shit out not bring it in and put it through the system
>build huge wall
>people risk their lives sneaking into the country instead of coming legally
I wonder what kind of reason a person would have for sneaking into a country instead of coming legally..
>>72541887
Walls worked well in China, East Germany and Israel. Why wouldn't they work in USA too?
>>72541887
So the solution is, logically, kill everyone in Mexico? Sounds good to me.
>>72542024
Its an analogy to what you're saying.
You are saying that "by building a wall, everything will get worse" which simply isn't true.
>>72541887
>If you built a wall you would do nothing more than create a demand, you'd empower more people to get across our border by other means.
It highers to cost to cross the border, meaning less people can cross. Doesn't matter if they feel more 'empowered'.
Your drug example sucks, because making it legal means more people can afford it and use it. Making it illegal makes it more expensive, cutting poorer users out.
what's the point in having any laws if what you say is real?
>>72542082
I never said to get rid of illegal immigration. I said to make it easier to people to go through our legal immigration process. That would cripple the illegal smuggling industry.
>>72541887
So what is your evidence
>People who cost tax money arent booze or drugs
>>72541887
Your comparing some shitty laws to a large physical wall. Also by your logic we shouldn't defend ourselves because our enemies will try harder.
>>72541945
2tru
>>72541887
Fun fact: Walls work everywhere except the United States.
>>72541887
post "evidence" or fuck off
>>72541887
omg fuck borders n shit dis post made me crie. Liek and updoot plox :^(
>>72542193
Yes, lets kill all Mexicans then deport the one in the US back, thus creating a new buffer state to our south
>>72541887
What black market is it going to create?
Illegals are only allowed here because the laws are not enforced.
>>72542280
Holy fuckballs, now you're arguing we need to make it easier for third world trash to legally immigrate to America?
>>72541887
Theoretically, punishment works if you are willing to put your foot down hard enough. Just ask Japan.
>>72541887
Nothing makes sense here. Why are you such an obnoxious idiot
>>72542323
I guess you believe that criminalization reduces crime except when it's a wall on our souther border.
Actually, if you build a wall big enough Mexicans may finally start a space program to hop over it.
Building a wall would make America and Mexico great.
>>72541887
This is a masterful bait, crafted by artisans.
>>72541887
The wall is to stop illegals from getting in. It will affect smuggling and the like, but illegals are the main purpose.
Nobody wants Mexican drugs. They just want drugs. The only way to truly win is legalize+regulate.
Cartel drugs < big pharma-made drugs
Look, the fucking wall is going to be built
Regardless of the election cycle
And it will become a symbol, and a canvas.
Just like all the other great walls of the world, until one day in the far future, when it is torn down by a different, angry generation.
>>72542529
Illegal immigrants and smugglers should be treated as enemy combatants.
>>72542280
You're a fucking retard.
>>72541887
> comparing virtual and arbitrary laws with physical security
Wall+Legal drugs
find a flaw
remove brick weed
make america dank again
>>72541887
>you fools, don't you see laws will just create more crime????
>>72542024
He's saying you've outed yourself as A FUCKING LEAF
>>72542590
Who cares what some generation centuries from now does? In the intervening time, it will serve a useful purpose. Live in the moment.
>>72542712
This
>>72542578
>>72541887
> if we build a wall, MORE illegals will cross over
> a wall "empowers" the people it is intended to block
we must assume you leave your house and car unlocked, and have jimmied your ignition so it can be started without a key right?
after all, securing something just "empowers" those who might want to take your shit right?
stupid faggot
the only thing you "pointed out" is how utterly stupid you are.
I always thought banksy was a hack
>>72542529
Criminalization increases crime because by definition, you are breaking the law doing said action, you dumb motherfucker.
>>72542085
what "evidence"?
all you offered was your own personal opinion that building a wall on the border will INCREASE illegal immigration
you lefties always scream "U R Ignorant!! Do Ur Own Research!!!" when your idiotic claims come under scrutiny.
OP really does suck cocks.
>>72542865
just to be clear I was saying that the overall proportion of illegal crossings while increase and the overall proportions of legal crossings will decrease. I did not mean to imply that more people would migrate overall.
Surely you must agree that people will cross our border to come here no matter what security measures we have in place against them.
>>72541887
>build wall
>legalize all drugs
>move drug production from mexico to USA
problem solved.
Also, Hungary avoided the immigrant problem with a wall. So it works.
Also, those Mizzou cucks had a wall for everyone they didn't agree with. Hypocrites.
>>72541887
A large chunk of the border is water anyhow, used for farming and boating, by both Americans and Mexicans.
>>72541887
IF you decriminalize Illegal inmigration I'll jump the border tomorrow and steal your job.
>>72543079
>Surely you must agree that people will cross our border to come here no matter what security measures we have in place against them.
No, because that's what a security measure is.
>>72541887
The Soviets built a wall in Berlin. Did this make people want to GTFO MORE than they did before? Maybe. It certainly made the ones who wanted to leave want to leave right now. After it was up though, did more or fewer people escape from the iron curtain? I'll give you a hint: they eventually tore the wall down so people could move freely.
Your argument has a point but it just means they better build that wall fucking fast.
>>72542085
Look faggot, I agree with you that prohibition drives the black market. I don't give a shit about the black market, it will never go away, that's why we have people crack down on it.
I do care about one country south of our border having a monopoly on the black market. I care about decriminalization of drugs and allocating resources towards treatment and awareness. I still care about putting a fucking wall to keep the scum Mexico doesn't even want out of our country.
Did you know mexico voted to secure their southern border because as low as 500k Guatemalans a year come over into mexico from Guatemala? Fucking off yourself.
>>72543175
At least you're white.
>>72543147
Comparing migrants in EU with mexicunts.
On one hand, a slew of migrants with nothing more than a backpack trying to get into a country while being chased out of the other country and having nowhere to hide.
On the other hand, a situation where people can prepare, organize, and put long-term solutions in place to bypass a wall.
Oh, and the fact that the border is approximately 500 times as big as the Hungarian one, and cannot be manned.
Oh and the fact that the maintenance cost would skyrocket.
Dumbass cunts that are satisfied with simple two words answers to complex world problems.
VOT DRUMPF!
>>72542954
banksy IS a hack.
his shit has no vision, no artistic merit and no soul.
he is a horsey-tier political cartoonist who "publishes" his shit through vandalism
>>72543079
>while
will*
>>72543059
I offered other examples of increased security measures built around increased criminalization that were bad. Please tell me some evidence you have.
>>72543309
Can you tell me why you don't care about decriminalization of immigration and and allocating resources towards other places. Is it only because you think the only people who come here are scum?
>>72541887
>we can reduce crime to zero by getting rid of all laws
;-)
>>72541887
>my point is counter-intuitive therefore it's intellectual, clever, and probably correct
>>72543393
Why don't you go eat some dick bread, you french piece of shit?
>>72543079
ALL "crossings" are illegal dipshit.
we will build the wall to stop "Crossings"
surely you must realize that some people will rape, no matter how many laws we pass, so we should decriminalize rape!
once rape is no longer illegal, cases of illegal rape will become nonexistent! problem solved...
you truly are a genius
a modern day prometheus.
which pose would you prefer for your memorial statue on the whitehouse lawn?
>>72543393
>>72543677
Didn't really expect more than that from americunt retards.
>>72543701
>ALL "crossings" are illegal dipshit.
by crossings I meant illegal immigration and legal immigration. only one of those is illegal.
>>72541887
Just shoot them on sight, women, children, and the elderly are fair game
>>72541887
>building a wall will just create a black market for Mexicans
You're a funny guy but that's racist man they're not a commodity.
I hope I at least got through to some lurkers who might not be as stubborn as those who posted in this thread. If I did, thanks for listening to reason instead of your own emotions!
>>72543079
>Surely you must agree that people will try to cross our border to come here no matter what security measures we have in place against them.
First, fixed that for you. Second, this is why we patrol the borders and crack down on illegal immigrants.
Third, why the fuck would we want unskilled labor, which is damn near all illegal immigrants and will be most legal immigrants if we relax our already existing laws, at this point in the country when we don't have enough low-skill jobs for the people already in this damn country.
Fourth, walls have been proven to work from the great wall of china, to the wall in Hungary, and the Israeli-Palestine wall. Hell, even Mexico is building a wall on its southern border to help stop illegal crossings from central america. Godddam, why do I waste my time with your horseshit.
>>72541887
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier#Effectiveness
>building walls means more people will come and more violence
>completely contradicted by all evidence
Get a load of this shill
>>72542954
People need to copy his shit and include le happy merchant put it up in london
>>72543760
I'll have you know, my IQ is estimated to be 152 as shown by those online IQ tests I take on a daily basis. So you're argument is invalid, frenchie.
>>72542280
>It's not illegal immigration anymore if we get rid of immigration laws!
Nah. The purpose is to keep too many people from coming in.
People like you.
I don't really like the idea of a wall. It's going to be an environmental disaster.
>>72543499
you provided no evidence to support your idiotic postulate.
but here's some examples of measures that succeeded
> xiongnu horse raiders attacking china, china builds wall, china doesnt see northern nomads for 300 years
> everyone who can escape east germany is fleeing across border into west, E Germany builds wall, huge success, very few people escape!
> Criminal commits crimes, convicted for crimes, locked in prison, he cant commit any more crimes until release/escape
B-B-b-b-but none of those solutions were perfect!
small xiongnu raiding parties did get past the wall, a few E Germans did escape, and sometimes people escape from prison!!
fuck yourself with a pineapple you dirty faggot.
if you demand p3erfection you will never get anything done.
some planes crash so you cent ever ride in a plane
some cars crash so you cant ever ride in a car
some houses fall down, so you cant live in a house
some food is toxic, so you cant ever eat
pasnies like you who demand a zero risk solution should be lined up and shot.
but some rifles might misfire!!
so we should shoot you twice.
>>72544292
This. one thing I forgot to add in the original post.
>>72541887
>implying you can brew immigrants in your bathtub
>>72543499
You offer no evidence that it will happen here.
In fact even comparing the two is seriously spurious at best, and downright wrong at worst.
You're either a troll, or a stupid, cocksucking faggot.
>>72541887
Drug war is full of shit, at least it is on weed, but the walls main purpose is to keep the cornniggers out, illegal immigration would slow extremely, cornniggers would think twice if they would have to crawl in tiny tunnels on the edge of collapsing or detected with seizmic sensors, or drown at sea falling out of a shitty boat, with the added spice of 1 in 3 getting raped on the path of possible death. And more would decide not to come after hearing first hand horror stories of the ones caught and deported back.
>>72541887
Fuck off shill. The Wall works, just take a look at ours.
>>72544292
>>72544346
No it won't, you're totally pulling that excuse from out your ass
>>72541887
>We can look at prohibition: it created a large black market for moonshine. We can look at the war on drugs: it created a large prison population instead of reducing the overall amount of crimes
Yes goys, making things illegal only makes the prison population go up, putting those people in prison doesn't help at all. Just make everything legal.
>>72543701
well if you MEANT to say it i should read your mind .
dipshit LEGAL immigration is not hampered by a wall.
most (i dare say ALL) LEGAL immigrants come across the borders by conventional means, not by paying a people smuggler for a ride in the back of a chicken truck, and not by hiking 200 miles across the desert.
the wall would only block ILLEGALS you moron
thats why we implement DOOR technology in the wall.
>>72544494
Even trump agrees it would cause environmental problems. he just doesn't think those problems are bad enough to not have a wall.
When Israel built a wall around gaza, number of terror attacks dropped almost 80%.
>>72544463
Listen to the Chosen
If the Jews are doing it, it's the smart thing to do, even if the kikes hypocritically call us all racists or some bullshit like Netanyahu called Trump for wanting to build a wall and not take any Syrian refugees (Israel's exact policy).
>>72543811
well if you MEANT to say it i should read your mind .
dipshit LEGAL immigration is not hampered by a wall.
most (i dare say ALL) LEGAL immigrants come across the borders by conventional means, not by paying a people smuggler for a ride in the back of a chicken truck, and not by hiking 200 miles across the desert.
the wall would only block ILLEGALS you moron
thats why we implement DOOR technology in the wall.
disregard >>72544543
shitposting isnt perfect, so nobody should be allowed to post EVER!!
>>72544422
Explain your conception then, anon.
What a fucking idiot. "Building a wall would make people try to smuggle people over more than they already are."
>>72544195
I'll bite, even though I know better.
How does a wall do anything to prevent a tunnel? A ladder? A rope? Anything else as low tech as that? How do you build a wall on the Rio Grande? How do you man it? How do you pay for maintenance?
>>72544556
Still haven't given me a source. Also you just refuted your own point
>>72542280
Please tell me there aren't people that actually don't realise there are serious consequences for this. No one is this stupid. This post has to be bait.
>>72541887
lol What, a demand for Mexicans?!?!
Oh man, my sides.
>>72541887
Oh, just like how the fight against cancer causes more cancer, and the fight against HIV causes higher demand for HIV
>>72541887
Jailing murderers/rapists/pedophiles actually makes our murders/rapes/pedophilia problem worse. All the evidence points to this. We can look at prohibition: it created a large black market for moonshine. We can look at the war on drugs: it created a large prison population instead of reducing the overall amount of crimes. It does nothing but create a demand for the very thing you are trying to stop. If you jail the murderers/rapists/pedophiles you would do nothing more than create a demand, you'd empower more people to murder/rape/pedophilia by other means. As of now the murder/rape/pedophilia industry is huge, if we did not criminalize murder/rape/pedophilia as much as we did then that industry would be weakened greatly. People would not be forced to carry out extreme criminal acts, they could murder/rape/pedophilia on the U.S. without the terrible experience of being jailed over (where often times they are victim of police brutality). Of course this is just a summary of the overall negative influence that criminalizing murder/rape/pedophilia would have on our border. I was just trying to point out some of the flawed reasoning Trump/Cruz supporters have for their wall idea.
>>72544745
>dipshit LEGAL immigration is not hampered by a wall.
I'll repeat myself again just for you. a wall would reduce the proportion of migrants coming in legally while increasing the number of migrants who come in illegally.
>>72544965
haha what. cancer and hiv has a cure, and is not bound by the laws of supply and demand in the way other things are.
>>72541887
>moonshine
Illegal immigrants will be made inside the country?
>>72544519
I don't know how the US of A does it, but you guys are on a faggin roll! "Highest percentage of prisoners to population worldwide". wow.
>>72545077
damn portugal. that's disgusting
>>72541887
I think you might actually be retarded.
>>72541887
Yeah, we should just open our borders and make all drugs legal, that will stop them.
While we're at it we might as well decriminalize murder and theft; people are just going to do it anyway and we don't need them clogging up our prisons.
>>72541887
> the wall will make things worse
> all evidence points to this
> here, I will present no evidence
> no stats
> no links
> nothing
>>72545078
It would definitely NOT increase the number of migrants who come in illegally. The wall is just a small part of the reform. Trump will do everything to make sure that border patrol is allowed to do their job unchecked, which is clearly not the case now thanks to the Democrats.
Great bait but clearly you're an idiot
>>72541887
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAH
>>72541887
Comparing Lets ban X
To lets enforce X.
Retarded op
>>72542024
They're making fun of the fact that your logic is something a 6 year old would say. A wall would hamper illegal immigration. Illegal immigration doesn't follow supply and demand. You're saying that if we stop illegal immigration with a wall than illegal immigration wins. You're a retard.
>>72544811
Seismic sensors with guard towers 10-20 miles out that could be automated with cameras and drone support. I also like how you ignored >>72544104 achmed. Hell, if it costs the US 20 billion per year, it's still a worthwhile investment since it saves us 60.
>>72545078
>a wall would increase the number of migrants who come in illegally
DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Imagine this being said in 206BC China.
>Emperor Qin the Huns are devastating the villages, how will we stop them
>No idea, who cares
>Sir we must build some form of fortification to keep these savages out!
>NO WE CAN'T DO THAT, THAT WILL MAKE THEM WANT TO INVADE US EVEN MORE!
>>72541887
Found the heroin importer.
>>72541887
ask Israel or Hungary about the effectivness of walls
>>72545174
Looks like happened around the time that prisons were heavily privatized.
>>72545174
That's because we need prison reform. Also drug use.
>>72542280
thats exactly the plan for the wall
its to make people come here legally
>>72545078
He's gone full retard!
>>72543499
Because illegals or "undocumented workers" don't follow the same formula as drugs when it comes to prohibition. Following the laws we have and going after the areas which harbor the illegals would do a great number on our economy. Currently, our economy relies on the influx of illegals into the southwest who want to recapture Aztlan instead of our own countrymen who want to recapture making America great. Our own countrymen can't even go to these areas because of how outnumbered they are these days.
Illegals basically have entire systems built into our system to leech off it and contribute next to nothing besides drugs and organized crime. Yes, an extremely large amount of illegals come here for the wrong reasons or are complete scumbags anyway.
>>72541887
>>72545078
but that's just plain wrong. When Hungary built its fence the number of illegals crossing daily dropped from tens of thousands to less than a hundred.
He's not going to build a fucking wall now get over it.
>>72541887
>Building a wall on our southern border would actually make our immigration/drug/terrorist problem worse. All the evidence points to this.
What Evidence? You just made a bunch of false equivalences.
>>72541887
>Israel
>Israel
>Israel
Man, you're retarded. Attacks have dropped 80 percent in Israel since they built a wall. Nuff said.
>>72545478
Are you serious? This isn't a hollywood movie dipshit. Can you imagine the fucking shitstorm if automated towers shoot a mexican national?
Hole shit you're dumb. Go watch the expendables.
As for comparing the Israeli wall with this one...
Are you that dense? A palestinian illegally in israel would be spotted in a matter of minutes, and having no proper ID, would be jailed.
A mexicunt could easily dissapear in the US and live a long, happy life without ever having to prove his legal status after crossing the border.
Huurrr Durrr no difference.
>>72542182
They already risk their lives, I've worked in texas ranches, i've seen groups of 30+ who had been herded for days. I'm lucky that I havent found a body, but every month the boarder patrol finds some.
The wall would be a deterrent, they could still tunnel them in, but the flow will be reduced.
The best option is really deportation and to seize property, along with harsh punishment for drug smuggling and violent crime by illigals. Along with cutting off welfare for them.
>>72545174
Increase in Mexicans and decrease in blacks dying from AIDS
>>72541945
Fippy Bippy
>>72546211
Germany knows about these things.
I wonder if that fucking faggot has ever heard of the Berlin wall. Wasn't anybody getting past that shit.
>>72541887
If we're going to spend shitloads of taxpayer money we can't afford anyhow, imagine if we spent all that money we'd put towards building, maintaining, and guarding that shitty, lowest-bidder, easily-tunneled under wall into building up the Mexican economy so they don't have any reason to escape their Zeta-infested hellhole.
>remember, moot is from Mexico and that's where 4chan was started
>>72546234
If you cut off their welfare they will go right the fuck back to Mexico because government aid is the only thing keeping them here.
>>72542464
It is very fucking easy desu
http://michaelcutler.net/26-individuals-including-six-lawyers-charged-in-manhattan-federal-court-w-participating-in-immigration-fraud-schemes-involving-hundreds-of-fraudulent-asylum-applications/
1. welfare only available to 3rd or higher generation Americans
2. severely punish any business that hires an illegal
3. any politician that doesn't follow these 2 laws is instantly impeachable, no matter what
suddenly, illegal immigration goes to zero. fixed with three laws if properly enforced.
>>72543499
>I offered evidence
No you didn't bitch. All you need to do is look at Hungary and your "evidence" is BTFO.
>a wall will increase illegal immigration
>physically preventing people from crossing the border means more people will cross the border
Congratulations, you just won the retard of the month award.
>>72546437
>>72541887
Drugs and illegal immigration are black market already, genius. How would building a wall create what already exists?
>>72541887
Why build a wall and not hire people to patrol the region and put cameras all over the place?
>>72541887
Who cares?
>>72546829
>mexican
>illegally immigrate to the us
>engage in criminal enterprise
solved
>>72547237
>>72546224
>Can you imagine the fucking shitstorm if automated towers shoot a mexican national?
When did I imply the towers would be armed.
It's very simple to have a fucking tower with optical and thermo cameras in the night to send out a signal to a manned station.
The manned stations with conventional border patrol and drone operators can communicate to those agents to redirect their patrols so the illegal immigrants can be captured and deported.
Holy shit, I can't believe the first damn thought of a fucking liberal is to have the turrets armed to shoot on sight.
Also, that image is an estimate of costs for building that wall, not hurr durr these two things are equivalent. Fuck me, you're either a dumb sandnigger, or the French education system failed you.
>>72547489
>build wall 20 feet inside US border
>make new law stating any foot across the border equals an invasion which means shoot to kill
problem solved. again.
>>72541945
t. Weedman on vacation
>>72541887
TL;DR if we made crimes legal there would be less crime
also
>you'd empower more people to get across our border by other means
> you'd empower more people to get across our border
> you'd empower more people
> you'd empower
>empower
goodbye tumblr
If this were true Israel walling of the palestinians would do jack shit.
The goal isn't to combat trafficking, but to prevent as many people from coming in as possible.
Yeah, people will come in, in a more elaborate fashion, but there will be less of them.
The difference between the drug war and the uhmm border war is that with the border war the demand increases outside your country, while the drug problem increases the demand inside your country.
It's not a hard problem to grasp.
Smuggling people and drugs is different.
>>72547489
I cannot honestly comprehend how stupid one can get.
1) Do you realize much of the land on the actual border is privately owned, and does not belong to the US government? What are you going to do? Evict private citizens from their own land? Yeah that's very conservative.
2) What about all the areas of the border that are not straight lines on dry ground? How do you build a wall there?
3) So you're telling me we now add construction cost + maintenance on some 8000 towers to watch the 4000km long border fence, as well as all the electronics to go with it? Triple the original cost and maintenance then.
4) Bordel patrol does not have the manpower currently to watch 4000km of border.
5) That estimate is horseshit. Israel has roads on their border. Much of that border land is currently innaccessible by any construction vehicle. Add road costs and maintenance to your estimate.
Whoever said I was a liberal you dumb piece of shit? I'm pretty far to the right, I just have a fucking brain and know when a fatass politician is lying to me, being populist to the extreme to please the lowest common denominator.
Ameriturds, being manipulated by their government since independance. Copyright.
>>72542024
Illegal immigrants won't be able to afford the increased cost of smuggling. Those that can will just do it legally
>>72547451
I don't know how is the place, but wouldn't a wall affect the farmers, springs, people with cattle and the whole the region?
I used to live in a place like this (Paraguay - Brazil) and the timber business would be destroyed with a wall dividing both countries. That's why I think patrols and cameras would be more effective.
>>72548424
>and the whole economy* of the region?
>>72548131
All land belongs to the government, citizens rent.
>>72549072
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain#United_States
Dumbass leaf.
>>72546224
>automated towers
What the fuck are you talking about?
>>72541945
Why did anyone post after this?
>>72549262
What point are you making?
Mine is expropriation
>>72541887
It's already a huge black market, jackass.
>>72549511
My point is that expropriation should be anticonstitutional, and is actually very much against conservative values.
>>72549511
>>72549798
And expropriation means taking ownership. Therefore your argument of "all land belongs to the government" is invalid.
>>72541887
making something illegal is not the same as making it impossible. your argument falls flat
>>72548131
Leave it to a frenchie to think everything is too difficult.
>>72541887
If it worked for China, why not America?
All jokes aside,
The reason why criminals do not mind going to prison for something like resale and use of illegal substances is because they don't mind jail, and instead give then benefits.
Take a look at it this way, jail isn't so bad for folks like drug users and dealers. They have 3 meals a day, tons of activity and hobbies to do, and a set schedule.
Also,
>it does nothing but create a demand for the very thing you are trying to stop.
[CITATION NEEDED]
>>72549935
Try not paying your property taxes for a couple of years. Guess what happens... the government sends in guys with guns to remove you from the land by force.
>>72541887
If you ban Mexicans, people will start brewing Mexicans in their bathtubs?
>>72550474
This
>>72550474
>>72550558
Holy shit... Are you that thick?
Property tax is just that, taxes on property you own. It's not some kind of rent you idiots.
Not paying the taxes in effect in the country is illegal. Therefore removal and arrest can be justified (if you agree that property tax is justified, which I do not).
However doing nothing wrong, and being a law abiding citizen, and being evicted by the government simply because they want to build a wall? If you agree with this, you can never call yourself conservative again.
>>72549262
Why am I arguing with a french fry over walls?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maginot_Line
>>72550827
You pay taxes on cars?
>>72550890
Yearly taxes?
>>72550890
How is this relevant?
I pay value added taxes on everything I buy. Does that mean the government owns the lettuce I just bought at the supermarket too?
Dipshit.
>>72541887
Worked for isreal you anti Semitic cuck
>>72541945
FPBP
>>72541887
Brush up on your reading cuck...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-03-28/trump-wrong-about-border-wall-one-stunning-chart-has-answer
>>72548131
>What are you going to do? Evict private citizens from their own land?
Yes, we have the laws in place. It's the fifth goddamn amendment. Is it conservative? No. In fact, the very act of building the wall discounting all of the logistics, can only serve to expand government power. However, it's the government's duty to enforce our borders efficiently, which this wall does.
>What about all the areas of the border that are not straight lines on dry ground? How do you build a wall there?
You mean the Rio Grande? You can approximate that with straight lines and we can build away from that area where we can.
>Triple the original cost and maintenance then.
The break-even point is still damn high. Even if it would cost us 40 billion to construct and 30 per year for maintenance, it would still be worth is, with the added benefit of massively decreasing the flow of people and drugs from Mexico. They would thank us for it since we can simultaneously cut the flow of guns and money that are funding the people that are making their country even more shit.
>Bordel patrol does not have the manpower currently to watch 4000km of border.
Yes, which is why Trump said that he would expand border patrol, and that could be alleviated with the drones we're using to bomb the shit out of sandniggers and americans to act as the eyes in the sky.
>>72550827
We do the same thing for roads and highways, It's a common and necessary thing.
Sure, it will cause harm to some people, but the good far outweighs the bad.
>>72544188
dubs demands it
>>72543760
Fuck yourself. This shit is the reason so many Americans encourage millions of Muslim terrorist to migrate to your country. I will watch everything you love burn to the fucking ground
>>72551626
Yes, it's being used already today, and it already causes havoc and massive debates. Imagine doing it over 4000 kilometres. Totalitarian uproar.
>the good outweighs the bad
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Millions of people died over the course of history for the "common good"
>>72551538
>Fifth amendment
What the actualy fuck? The fifth amendment has literally fuck all to do with the current debate. Jesus Christ.
>Build away from that area
Oh so you mean evict even more private citizens, or encroach even more on their land? Glorious conservative values you show there senpai.
>Break even
I'm still waiting on actual facts to corroborate that "dem illeegulz kost 90 billion gagillion a yeer". It's complete bullshit.
>Expand border patrol
Do you have any idea just how much you'd have to expand border patrol to police 4000km? Pretty much an army.
>>72551831
Lose and argument, resort to "fuck yourself". Typical americunt.
I'm not defending current EU policy, far from it. I'm simply stating that building a wall does fuck all, and for the cost of it, you can implement many different policies that will deter illegal immigration even more.
>Require proof of citizenship for any official ID, including social security
>Require the same for job applications
>Fund ICE more instead of building a shitty static wall
Problem solved cocksucker.
But no, "BUILD A WALL" is better for the soundbites on CNN and Fox. Populism at it's finest.
So no, I think you should go fuck yourself.
Bai.
Can't work legally, can't drive,
>>72541887
The drug trade is already a black market. Making it more difficult is a good thing. People who need to be smuggled over do so because they can't immigrate normally. When you walk into someone else's house, you knock and ask to be let in. You don't break through the window, refuse to leave, start eating out of the fridge and claim that part of the house belongs to you.
It's a little late for a wall, half of Mexico is in California already.
>>72541887
please don't use logic.
Trump said "walls work", why would I doubt that?
>>72542280
You can't make legal immigration easier without making illegal immigration harder.
>>72542024
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmsRN78qMxM
>>72541887
so very fucking stupid. its already illegal. there is already a black market.
>disrupting the source will make it worse
I hope whoever the fuck shares your views is extremely ashamed that this was an actual attempt to discredit Mr. Trump.
>>72543393
>Oh and the fact that the maintenance cost would skyrocket.
Why? Almost all of the wall would be through desert. A very dry environment. It's not like Canada where the winter tears up roads every year.
>Walls don't work
>>72552923
you, and all the other people in this thread posting about the hungary "wall", need to understand that hungary put up a guarded fence. yes it's a barrier but it is not a wall
>>72553049
and guess what- we already have a fence on our southern border
>>72541887
FIXED
>>72553332
>>72553360
>>72552389
>No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
>nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
The fifth amendment is what gives the federal government the power of eminent domain, which was the point of saying the 5th amendment. Even the wikipedia article you linked said as much.
Here is the study.
http://www.fairus.org/DocServer/research-pub/USCostStudy_2013upd.pdf
>Pretty much an army.
You mean the national guard? You're right. I don't really see why you couldn't fold the national guard for those states into the border patrol.
>>72553049
They put up a fence and illegal immigration was stopped. How is a wall going to be different?
>>72553049
you might be autistic.
>>72541887
t. Juan
>>72541887 as for the assumption that less people would want to cross the border if it were easier? even more retarded. the people flee the cartels. not only would the actions you propose do nothing to fight the power they have, it would increase.
>easier to come
>easier to sell drugs
>more money
>more power
>more dead people
>AND EVEN MORE IMMIGRANTS
Its called making their home more safe. How do you do that?
>BUILD WALL
>SEVER DRUG TRADE
>DESTROY PROFITS
>DESTROY ABILITY TO CORRUPT GOVERNMENT
>LIBERAL FAGGOT BTFO
>>72553492
>>72553548
we already have a fence
>>72553632
That doesn't cover the entire border unlike the wall.
>>72553743
we could cover the rest of the border with more fence really easily. if we tried to do that with the wall it would be really costly, and no he wouldn't be able to get mexico to pay for it.
>>72553483
>"taken"
That's precisely my point. Private property is stolen for other use by the government. This is pretty much at the top of anti conservative ideals.
>Fold the national guard in the border patrol..
So now you want to federalize the national guard, and put it on border duty? What the actual fuck. Are you sure you're a conservative?
This isn't even redpilled, it's just completely stupid. You're making an enemy of the country to your south.
>>72553743
It doesn't cover the entire border because they realized it was fucking impossible to do so.
I honestly believe every single person opposed to the wall has a stake to lose in it being built, like undocumented immigrants that are still waiting for the rest of their family to cross & democrats wanting to continue flooding the states with voting illegals. People that say they're republican and saying the wall isn't practical are shills.
>>72553830
refute this, Butch.
>>72553627
>>72553841
Read fucking Hoppe:
https://mises.org/library/case-free-trade-and-restricted-immigration-0
>>72553627
>as for the assumption that less people would want to cross the border if it were easier?
I never said less would want to cross the border. I've repeated this many times in the thread. I only said that the percentage of people who cross legally would decline while the percentage of those who cross illegally would increase.
>>72554085
Except there are millions of people like me, conservative, believing in individual liberty, that absolutely despise illegal immigration, but also are intelligent enough to realize a wall does nothing to solve the problem, except waste our tax dollars, stolen off our hard work by a shitty government.
>>72541887
who cares? mexico is paying for it...stay mad you are going back jose..get fucking packing
BUILD
U
I
L
D
>>72554363
>conservative
>no wall
Are you a (((neocohn)))?
>>72554533
A conservative that believes in individual freedom, and good use of my tax dollars instead of a useless populist proposition.
>>72554638
amen
>>72554344
So if I lock my door more people will come into my house?
>>72541887
>The "Wall"
concrete is so last century
http://media2.intoday.in/indiatoday/images/stories/laser-wall--_647_011716102948.jpg
>>72554344
>Secure the border
>More people will cross it
there is zero logic here because the wall is the action taken to prevent further immigration, retard. and the wall is ruining the evil that these people run from. I don't get how you can be so very stupid. i hope you're merely getting paid and don't think you're actually correct.
>>72554715
if you'd read the thread you'd know that I already responded to arguments just like the ones you're making
>>72554809
once again, I never said more people would cross.
why do you guys make me go in circles and repeat the same arguments over and over again. what's so hard about reading the thread before you post
>>72541887
>believing in walls
>>72554638
>Oy vey the Trump wall's gonna bring another shoah! Conservastien principles GOY!
Totally not a (((neocohn)))
>>72554971
So if I lock my door a higher percentage of people would enter my house illegally compared to legally?
>>72554971
I think you are too retarded to understand your own argument.
>>72554971
you are a special kind of retard. You're the one going in circles. you clearly have no point. i am engaging in your very own semantics and you still act like you're correct "crossing the border" in no way signifies legal immigration. It is clearly illegal immigration. which you have illogically stressed would increase. moron.
>>72555193
Godwin point.
As far away from redpill as you can get.
Fucking idiots everywhere.
>>72542865
lock argument
>>72554715
lock argument
>>72555225
lock argument AGAIN. please read the thread before you post. that argument already has responses.
>>72554363
You're French so you might not be familiar with how much the US government wastes tax payer money every year on projects that go nowhere & aiding other countries who don't appreciate us. Building a wall along the border no matter how useless it could be would still be a better use of money than what we're currently doing with it. At least we'll get a monument out of it even if it doesn't stop illegal trafficking as much as we'd like.
>>72555380
Address the fucking argument.
>>72555380
The responses made no sense though, so we're trying to see if you're capable of logical thought or if you're just going to keep trying to evade the point.
>>72555422
dude why are you even indulging this faggot
>>72555508
I did here >>72543079 >>72554971
>>72555543
tell me how those responses make no sense and I'll try to clarify
>>72542561
Underrated as fuck.
>>72555422
So why don't you wake the fuck up? Your right to bear arms was PRECISELY to prevent an omnipresent government that could do what it wants.
Topple it, create a minarchist state that serves the basic function and provides for its citizens, leaving the rest up to the free market.
Saying "fuck it, waste my money" is probably the most apathetic remark I've read about the wall so far. Jesus christ.
>>72555593
Your response is just "nuh-uh I meant percentage-based!!!" but locking your door isn't going to increase either the flat number, or the percentage of people entering your house uninvited. It's literally a non-argument.
>>72544333
Trips truth.
>>72546344
lol. Trump supporters are the most pessimistic sons of bitches ive ever seen. America is fucked and will be fucked if Trump isnt elected according to them. You got that completely backwards
>>72555766
if people want to enter your house they will find another way into your house if it's locked. Can we at least agree with that?
>>72554971
How is it that a large barrier for entering illegally would not cause a decrease in illegal immigration, and therefore a decrease in the total percentage of immigration assuming that legal immigration rates stay the same? In fact, what you suggested happened in the 80s. However, amnesty had the opposite effect since it effectively did what you suggested and made the barrier for immigration non-existant for that short timeframe. Since the American government has proven that it would give amnesty once, there has been a massive uptick of illegal immigration from the Mexican border from people hoping it would happen again.
>>72555766
To be fair, if all houses on a street are unlocked and yours is the only locked one, and it is public knowledge, that would probably increase the unwanted visitors.
Yours being the only locked one makes it more attractive, as:
1) There must be more to steal since noone else has gotten in
2) You must have something worth protecting, not like all the other open houses
So they will find a way in
>>72555856
So by your logic then, it's pointless to have a locked door to your house since they'll find another way in?
What strikes me is when people pretend Trump won't be able to make Mexico pay for it. What the fuck? USA can make Mexico do anything. You have the best military in the world and largest economy, mexicans have nothing and nobody cares about them.
>>72555856
Some determined ones will. Some will see that it's locked and give up. What is your point?
>>72548131
spot on. It seems conservatives in Europe actually think unlike here in america. Trump appeals to the dumbest, laziest, and self-righteous idiots in our country
>>72555856
NO. SECURITY IS SECURITY. THE WILL OF THE US GOVERNMENT WILL BEAT CIVILIANS ON FOOT. GTFO.
>>72556059
>>72556078
>>72556148
I'm saying that a locked door makes criminals look for other ways in. Just like our current fence makes criminals look for another way in. If it does reduce the amount of criminals who would enter it would only reduce those who are easily deterred. So right now with our fence we already deter those kinds of people. If we added a wall do you really think more people would be deterred that weren't already deterred by the fence? If it did I can't see it being a lot of people, which means the wall wouldn't deter a lot more people than our fence does.
>>72555709
>dude just topple your government lmao
If Trump can become the president I'm willing to believe in the system. We won't need to start any revolutions and America will become great without bloodshed.
>>72556326
>our current fence
>>>>>>>>>>that covers the entire border
>>72556503
I never said it covers the entire border, in fact I said it doesn't earlier in the thread. thanks for showing you didn't read the thread before you posted.
>>72556334
You don't need to topple your government, you need to make it realize the population is awake.
Basically saying "they're wasting my money, they might as well waste more of it" is sliding down the slippery slope of becoming an apathetic slave.
Which is already much of the US.
You people don't even realize just how bad you have it. You're exploited, ignorant fools for the most part, following red herrings thrown your way and perpetuated by the mainstream media.
Are you choosing to ignore all the success other countries have had with their own walls? Walls work get over it
>>72556592
But you implied that the mere presence of the fence is sufficient. And if it is sufficient, then it is necessary for it to span the entire border. I don't give a shit if it wasn't stated. It's something that should be known when debating the matter and i would hope you were aware of it since you are so opinionated on the matter. You're retarded. Kill yourself.
>>72557038
I implied that our current fence does in fact deter criminals. Earlier in the thread I actually supported the idea of completing our current fence in order to increase it's effectiveness. I'm not anti-barrier, I'm anti-wall. It's too costly and would not be much more effective (if at all) more than a completed fence would be.
>>72556624
>"they're wasting my money, they might as well waste more of it"
That's not really my mindset at all, I believe the wall will work and will be a good investment. It's just when people bring up it being a waste of money they aren't aware that the US under Obama's administration is already spending like what, 10x what the wall would cost just giving lazy people free shit? Trump would put an end to all of that, a fraction of what we'd save stopping these programs would pay for the wall and still leave millions possibly billions left over. Of course none of this matters anyways since Mexico will pay for the wall. We'll save money with Trump or lose it all with Hillary.
>>72554638
Now we get back to the original question of how this is a useless proposition.
If I understood your argument correctly, your reasons for not building the wall is that it would cost too much, it's infeasible for our current manpower to cover that border, and it tramples on the liberties of those that own land at the border.
My argument is it overall saves us money, we can take the manpower from elsewhere in the government, use technology to overcome the gap in manpower, or just increase the manpower through new hires or laws that allow citizens to patrol the border on a voluntary basis for compensation. As for the last issue, you clearly hate the idea of eminent domain in all cases, while I see it as necessary to secure that border. So, where do we go from here frenchie? Discussion on a different plan to secure that border? Since we're both in agreement that it definitely needs to be secured to ensure that the American people can stop the shitskin invasion.
>>72556860
most nations built fences btw. if a wall is as effective as a fence then why should we built a wall when we can complete our fence. it would be easier and less costly.
Even if Trump wins:
There will still be 10 million merchants in the US who will jew in the background as the ruling class they are.
White Americans are niggers compared to jews when it comes to power in USA.
Average whitey lives in a small town in states like Oklahoma and don't know anything about politics.
Average jewey lives in NYC, LA or Miami and is having influence on the society.
Trump can do nothing about it. USA and the americans will still be slaves to the masters.
How the fuck did this nigger go from
>Building a wall on our southern border would actually make our immigration/drug/terrorist problem worse.
to >>72557174
>>72557544
fuck em. it is tomfoolery. can't do it anymore.
>>72557544
I never changed my mind.
1. a wall would empower criminals
2. a wall wouldn't be much more effective than a completed fence
if you combine those two you get a worse immigration/drug/terrorist problem
>>72557189
You have pretty much summed up the two core values of any hardcore trump supporter:
1) Oversimplified outlook on society and politics (x amount "free shit" that trump will stop, so x amount saved).
You forget that you don't like under a dictator, and Congress controls the budget, the President doesn't decide everything alone. You have no knowledge of the inner workings of your own government and it's fucking sad.
2) Close to no knowledge of geopolitical matters, ignorance of any form of consequence, lack of will to understand.
You like when stuff is presented to you in a very simple x = y manner, when reality is much more complicated.
You fucking disgust me, and I hope someone does end up nuking you.
>>72557384
No. My core argument is that it would simply not attain the stated objective, which is to drastically reduce illegal immigration.
My second point is that for a fraction of the cost, you can instate measures that will be MUCH more effective than a stupid fucking wall. It's very easy to prevent illegals from voting, driving, working, receiving any healthcare, opening a bank account, renting a place, etc. If they can't do any of those things, and ICE is funded adequately, there is no need for a wall..
You're welcome, I just reduced your taxes by a few hundred dollars.
Securing a border through a simplistic, static, ridiculous option such as a wall is demagogy in its purest form. It's the soundbite for people who can't be arsed to think for themselves.
I can guaran-fucking-tee you that even if drumpf gets elected, that wall is never getting built, and he will find countless excuses. Probably blame congress.
>>72557828
A wall will "empower" them but a fence won't? Is this just some inherent magical property of walls?
