Do you know what we lack on /pol/ ? Muslims. Real muslims.
Why ? Because /pol/ is a place to talk without any limitations and there's honestly tons of stuff I would like to ask to someone truly believing in Islam. Sure we have a bunch of kebab on here but the vast majority are not believers or just pretend to so we get pissed. On the other hand we have a handfull of (burger) christian believers and we can sometimes interact with them through shitposting.
But no muslim. For exemple I would love to talk with a muslim girl so I can ask how she can justify hiding her face beyond the usual "I'm a precious diamond" crap we hear in medias. The fact is I know no muslim believer around me so I can't talk about those things.
If anything, this prove Islam is really incompatible with the freedom of speech we enjoy here.
>>72336394
As a muslim I can tell you that women where the hijab so as not to be judged by their looks, but to be judged by how they are. Muslim women that wear the full face cover do it as it says in the religion that it's good to do so, but it's not needed. All in all most women that wear the full head dress now do it as a part of their culture.
Quite frankly given what I told you, it isn't really that bad of a thing. Yeah it might look like women are being oppressed on the outside. But in truth, most muslim women are empowered as fuck, because they don't rely on their looks to get what they want like most women today.
What else would you like answered?
>>72336673
FUCK YEAH ALL THOSE STRONG EMPOWERED ISLAMIC WOMENS.
Lol. Fuck off.
>>72336673
Yes, they absolutely choose and there would be no repercussions to her shoosing not to.
>>72336673
>not to be judged by their looks, but to be judged by how they are
So why men aren't covering their face ? Why some fathers brutalized or even kill their daughter who refuse to wear it ? What if they WANT to be judge on how they look ? (looking good is hard, it's even a job)
That really sounds like a lie everyone repeat to justify an extremely mysogenistic and backward practice
> What else would you like answered?
One of my main question would be: How can you believe in something so "great" you think the ones who wants to leave needs to be killed ?
>>72336925
(continue'd) that would be my main problem with this. In any modern religion, if you don't believe in that stuff, you just walk away and the priest will say something like "Ok, it's your choice, have a good life". But in Islam, it's "APOSTAT ! KILL ! KILL!" in muslim countries and in non-muslim countries you get pretty much banned from the community. The religion is completly forced on the kids, parents don't even leave a single place for doubt or choice, you are born muslim and you must stay muslim all your life.
I've seen many muslim kids who can't understand the difference between a law (from a country) and islamic rules, they think it's the same and they will end up in prison if they eat pork or look at a church.
>>72336925
>So why men aren't covering their face ? Why some fathers brutalized or even kill their daughter who refuse to wear it ? What if they WANT to be judge on how they look ?
Firstly, men aren't as weak or emotional as women (well we used to be). Thus, we can still straighten out our backs when we're receiving hate based on our looks. Secondly, man there's cases when fathers rape and kill their daughters in America. We're talking about simple headdresses here, no matter where you go you will always find evil people, so stop shilling. Thirdly, it's because of society today and girls are raised in it, that they wish to be judged on how they look. They were raised to believe that they're worth is relative to their looks. Didn't your parents tell you not to judge a book by it's cover?
>One of my main question would be: How can you believe in something so "great" you think the ones who wants to leave needs to be killed ?
I used to be a full sunni muslim, said fuck islam, started smoking pot, drinking, partying and etc. I let my family know about this, but of course I'm not only alive but I'm still close with my family. What you need to realize is the difference between an extremist and a normal person. Quite frankly, shia muslims are the extremists, heck it's in their doctrine to whip their own fucking backs because a really pious man in Islam died to SHIA muslims.
And to the two other anons, I have yet to meet a women more empowered than a muslim women. You can shill me with events about third world countries and their women but let's be honest, those events come from third world countries or persons from those countries. So let's be serious with OP.
>>72336766
>no repercussions
Other than being stoned to death.
>>72337225
And to reply to this post, I myself am living proof that your generalization is wrong.
What else would you like answered?
>>72336394
It doesn't matter because the Koran tells them to lie to infidels to help spread islam.
>>72336394
what we lack is more dead frenchies
maybe those muslims can help us out
>>72337868
Don't confuse the Qu'ran with a re-written holy book like the Bible.
>>72337889
Pls no shilling.
>>72336394
4chan is 14yo amerifat infested shithole.
>>72337804
You're from Canada, I said you're not being killed as an apostat in non-muslim countries but I'm pretty sure if you lived in a closed community with absolutly everyone going at the mosque, you would have some issues if you suddently decide to NOT go there.
And about the veil, it's a problem of choice. I'm sure you can find of sorts of virtues about wearing a veil... but it amounts to nothing if it's NOT a choice. There's more than one way to force women into wearing something. Insisting on them being more "fragile" and "needing protection" (infantilizing them) is exactly what you are doing and it's harmful. If even a "regular" muslim like you think that, you can imagine when we face a true believer.
Others question:
> Do you buy the "Islam always existed, Abraham (Ibrahim) was muslim, Jesus (Isa) was muslim, Islam is the first religion by men" mental gymnastic ?
> Do you have any reason for not eating pork and drinking alcohol except "they told me not to" ?
> Are you ok with legions of children doing Ramadan in plain summer, drinking no water all day while being at school ? Sure they are not "forced" to do it but they do it.
>>72338209
>skitters away quickly
Why would a Muslim come to this board? I'd never go to a Muslim board. I'm not interested in what they have to say, their religion is laughably false, their defense of it with violence is the most egregious violation of planetary stability in history, their people are just fools.
Niggers come here sometimes. Not sure why, but they do. That's because a proper black man who has actually integrated into the culture surrounding him MIGHT be able to say something that changes someone's mind about niggers I guess.
But there's nothing any Muslim can say here that will change anyone's mind about Muslims. I hate to admit it, but the average intelligence level on /pol/ is too high to allow for that.
>>72338326
Firstly, my parents are strictly muslim. I mean that in saying they are true believers they have forced me not to do a lot of things because of religion. But if you're going to be ignorant of the fact that many people of many religions act in this way, then it is your choice. Quite frankly if I were to live in Christian-only country and started to let friends and family know I chose to not follow religion, then of course I would be faced with hardship. I will repeat myself again, these examples that you refer to, also refer to THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES, where religion can't be as relative to their actions because they're fucking idiots. It'd be the same if I were to point Christians out as barbaric and unlawful just because a couple bad apples do stupid shit like raping and sexually abusing their child. Before you even say "It says no where in the Bible that it's okay to rape or sexually abuse". Well anon, it says no where in the Qu'ran that it's okay to stone a women because of their choice. You're relating the actions of MEN with a religion, and let me honest here; humans are inherently evil.
To move on to my second point, I'm not gonna lie to you here. Men grow up to be strong, women don't naturally grow up to be strong. Yes I do believe women are more fragile than men, if you think otherwise then who exactly is in the wrong? Do more rapes happen against men or women? Women ARE more fragile and they DO need protection from us men. We live in a world where women grow up believing looks are what count. That they can get what they want by offering what they have (A.K.A their bodies). Of course this doesn't point out all females but a vast majority of them. Anon I'm being completely honest with you, my mother, my female cousins and female muslims that I know are way less oppressed and more empowered then women in this society that think looks are what counts. I mean seriously, most women put on a shit ton of make up just so they can get that ONE compliment.
>>72336673
Bahahahahah..empowered as fuck. . I literally see them always in the back seat when the front is available
>>72338326
Cont.
It's not that Islam has always existed. If you read the Qu'ran you'd know that Moses and Jesus are prophets in the religion of Islam. Allah, God and Yowah are all the same. Judaism and Christianity could have legitimately been the true religions. Yet it was men that changed the words of God in both the Bible and the Torah. The Qu'ran has not had a word in it's book changed by the hands of men.
Like I told you, I'm living proof that your generalization is wrong. Islam is sort of the same as Christianity in that one's own good deeds outweigh their own sins. Eating pork and drinking alcohol are small sins and I've done them both.
Firstly you must understand that no muslim is 'forced' to fast in Ramadan. It's certainly good to fast in Ramadan but not it is not law. So yes I'm okay with it, because it's their choice whether they want to or not. To also be more precise with my answer, most young children don't fast because they're young children, heck I barely fasted when I was growing up, and that was when I was fully into Islam.
And before you ask any more questions, you have to understand that most of this knowledge I know about comes from the shiekh of a masjid. Fuck, did you even know that charity is one of the pillars of Islam? I could fuck bitches and get money and do whatever the fuck I want but If I spend my life also helping those around me and being charitable then I'll still go to heaven. For example, according to islam, people like Oprah who have donated a shit ton would instantly go to heaven.
>>72339814
All you're showing me is that you see power in seating arrangements. That's pretty weak-minded.
>>72336673
lol please gas yourself you subhuman piece of shit
>>72336394
I'm a Muslim. Women wear coverings so as not to tempt men, it is to remain modest and also so that looks do not influence judgements.
ITT: /pol/ suddenly cares about women
>>72340179
Keep shilling harder you idiot.
>>72340242
I should have mentioned the 'tempting men' part, my apologies.
>>72340255
i always do. pol isnt 1 person
>>72340328
shilling for what you pathetic result of cousin inbreeding
>>72336394
I'm not a Muslim woman, but I've read some articles that suggest some women wear the hijab and shit cause they're of a lower economic class than others. They're also Muslims obviously but wearing the hijab is kind of a disguise to hide the fact that they can't afford really nice clothes. Just one little aspect of that hijab crap
>>72340390
You tell me, I'm trying to answer questions and here you come with hate and ignorance.
So keep shilling, #cooltshirtanon
The fact that a religion teaches that you can buy your way into heaven is a pretty good tip off it isn't a legitimate spiritual teaching.
>>72340637
This is mainly why muslim women wear the hijab >>>>72340242
>>72340734
what the fuck are you even saying dumbfuck
>>72340770
If you believe that helping others, in order to help and better yourself isn't right. Then that's your opinion anon.
>>72340907
Whenever I meet a toxic person I'll let them know their tshirt is cool. What you have a problem with that?
>>72337702
On your second point there, on women empowerment I almost agree to an extent. The main limitation on that belief is that the women believe that is right. Basically in order for them to feel empowered they have to believe that that is their place and that they are actually doing right by wearing the hijab, comparable to a western woman who feels liberated from feminazism by cooking because she's believes that's her job or whatever.
The logic is kind of circular if you follow what I'm saying. Even so, they have a choice and if that's what they believe than I guess you can call it a liberated sentiment.
>>72336394
>Because /pol/ is a place to talk with limitations
>rules
>>72341266
*without
>>72339928
Are the economic migrants normal people in your opinion? Most are male, and leaving countries that don't have war (except Syria. They could go to Libya, Tunisia, ect, without going to Europe, where they could live in the Balkans). They leave the women behind, and often complain about their new surroundings. (Migrants complained about how Swedish villages were too small, many burned the tents and shit they got from Hungary.) Do you hate these cunts?
>>72336394
I would rather deal with Muslims with the point of a sword, something they understand.
I'm a Muslim, ask me anything.
>>72341185
Thank you for understanding me anon. Yes I myself have compared women of Islam to women from western countries. You're right in saying for someone to feel empowered they have to believe that their role in life is important. I believe anyone can feel empowered through what they love and believe in. I was just trying to answer OP's question and help them understand why a muslim women may wear the hijab.
hallo, am muslim
wheres the women
>>72341571
Why do you always post this image?
>>72338719
im here only for the meems, and may bait when i feel like it. Honnêtement famille.
You don't look to muslims to learn about islam. You look to ex muslims.
https://youtu.be/WG_N3QltrWY
>>72336394
Burkas aren't even related to islam in any way
God says a women should be modest, not become a fucking cyborg ninja.
Burkas should be outlawed in the whole world, they are a tool of terrorists.
t. a muslim
>>72341644
To remind /pol/ that Muslims are human beings.
>>72341402
Yeah I sort of hate people like this. I was born in Canada yet my parents would always complain about their surroundings and about my friends because they weren't muslim. All in all this is more a human problem than it is a religion problem. I believe that one should respect the country they live in yet many immigrants, muslim and non-muslim don't share this thought. Do you have any questions? I honestly don't mind answering any anon's questions in this thread.
>>72336394
>I know no muslim believer around
Are you posting from a proxy or something?
>>72336394
/pol/ is a place for prejudiced faggots who largely hold the same beliefs and seek to have their beliefs reinforced. It's the most white, male, and virginal place on the whole of the internet. It's really just a massive circlejerk of autists and aspies held within a containment board, all the while using the false alibi of being "politically incorrect," "free thinking," and independent.
It's just a collection of insecure faggots.
>>72341759
Sure.
free speech is haram so muslims do not come on /pol
>>72341715
And FYI yes, as this anon pointed out. The women in OP's picture is not wearing a HIJAB, but a BURKAH. A hijab only cover's a women's hair.
>>72338719
>but the average intelligence level on /pol/ is too high to allow for that.
oh boy
In other words, you want /pol/ to be your personal hugbox and echo chamber huh? well it won't be a forum any more, because forums depend of DIFFERENT opinions ya fuckstick
>>72336394
>On the other hand we have a handfull of (burger) christian believers
As if. They're all sad crusade roleplay faggots.
>>72341571
Do you believe Sharia law is the law of your flag?
>>72341889
>It's just a collection of insecure faggots
who happen to think they're the coolest cats in existence, kek
>>72336394
>a handfull of (burger) christian believers
Do you even know where you are? You're on a Christian board degenerate.
>>72341889
No shilling please. Please don't generalize people that post on /pol/. You'll find trolls anywhere but you'll also find very intelligent people here too.
>>72341684
And if you want to learn about the dairy industry, ask a vegan :^)
F*** this woman. She's like the Muslim world's equivalent of a fedora-tipper.
>>72336394
burqa is more cultural/regional things, not Islam.
hijab is a choice see >>72336673
but then again >>72338209
>>72336673
a
FUCKING
BIN BAG
>>72342070
I... don't really understand the question, what do you mean?
Better video that addresses more than just women's "choice" to be nothing more than their cunts by wearing a veil
https://youtu.be/xDIR3GhXszo
>>72342118
What country do your parents come from?
>>72342224
>FUCKING
>BIN BAG
Please no shilling.
>>72341889
How comes I have to listen to you then you boring cunt.
>>72342118
Your feelings hurt, anon? The conformity of opinion on this site makes me want to vomit.
>>72342225
To keep it simple, what is the highest law of the land where you reside?
>>72336673
Except many clerics say that an unveiled woman is inviting rape, and so people take that as her being fair game.
-so, not emplwerment, safety in islamic rape culture that degrades women and blames the victim in rape.
>>72342337
I'd rather not say so as to not derail this topic and to remain as Anon as I can be. I can say however that they are sunni.
>>72336394
nice try ahmed abdul snackbar is that is even your real name. flat earthers are 100% muslims.
who showed up not so long ago when kebabagedon started? flat earthers
you wouldnt get out of grade school in the west if you tried to say that shit. be a damn 20 year old in 3rd grade they wouldnt let you get to middle school or highschool and have a chance at reproducing.
and we allow retards to progress through the educational system so it doesnt adversely affect their social skills. those tards have it bad enough
>>72336394
OK man look I am NOT a Muslim, will put that upfront. But I've had several close friends that were practicing Muslims, from the middle east, the 'moderate Muslims' that the memes say don't exist, so I want to give this a little bit of a shot.
>so I can ask how she can justify hiding her face
How do Christian girls justify NOT covering their hair? Don't they read 1 Corinthians 11?
So, more seriously, a woman who likes wearing the veil might tell you that she 1) it lets her keep the focus on her abilities etc. instead of her face (whether pretty or ugly) becoming the focus of attention instead. It prevents much of the 'creepy' behaviour that western feminists who dress like prostitutes complain about receiving. And it makes it that much more special for her husband when she takes it off.
>Other than being stoned to death.
It is in Quran but the Bible commands stoning numerous places too. Most schools of Islam have effectively eliminated that kind of thing, either as having applied only to a different time and place, or as requiring evidentiary standards that are essentially impossible to ever meet, and then redundantly also impossible because should such a sentence be pronounced the ruler would have a duty to commute it in any case.
Now of course crazy shit happens in places like Afghanistan, or Syria now that it's been blown to bits for years. But similar crazy shit happens in Christian countries when they go down the shithole like that too.
>>72339814
>I literally see them always in the back seat when the front is available
That's a display of superiority though. The boss always rides in the back seat.
Also reminder that most Muslims are still not Salafis, and very few were before the British handed Mecca, Medina, and most of the oil in Arabia to them.
>Muslims. Real muslims.
We've been getting fake Muslims all along?!
>>72336394
>implying muslims can communicate
I've talked quite a lot to a semi-salafi muslim girl from scotland
they live in constant mental strain from the conflicting beliefs they have.
they're basically indoctrinated to think that they deserve to be treated worse than their brothers.
they'll apologise for honor-violence, for the fact that if one of their brothers was caught having a girlfriend they'd get a slap on the wrist whereas if they got caught with a boyfriend they'd be disowned or beaten black and blue or killed, they'll apologise for the fact that a woman's legal testimony is worth half what a man's is in islamic law.
IT's amazing to meet people who so earnestly advocate AGAINST their own self-interest and think that it is right for them to be denigrated.
>>72342413
Cat got your tongue?
>>72342166
Quran (33:55) - "It shall be no crime in them as to their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their brothers’ sons, or their sisters’ sons, or their woman, or the slaves which their right hands possess, if they speak to them unveiled" A woman may present herself without a veil only to family and slaves.
>it is a choice
Have fun in your islamic hell dude.
>>72342413
The highest law of all lands is the law of God, duh. Is this a troll question?
>>72341759
>Rapists are human beings
>Murderers are human beings
>etc
Not. An. Argument
>>72342469
Yeah, thought so... The way you talk gave you away. I mean no disrespect to you as an individual, but you are a pawn of the people who seek to create social divisions in west. Sorry if my English doesn't make sense. I want to say Islam is like invasive species when it grows outside of its natural land and in a foreign garden. The fact you grew up in open minded society yet chose to follow the religion of your parents makes you a tool of the destabilization that is currently hurting the European nations. I am not telling you to give up your beliefs, but please question it. Think with open mind and not mind of the victim about whats happening where this religion spreads around world.
>>72336673
You are a joke. Women wear it out of social and family pressure. Kill yourself
>>72342937
Good thing I'm neither of those things, then.
>>72342398
How have my feelings been hurt? I only told you the truth anon.
>>72342418
Then those very same clerics are too naive to realize that the world is changing and that women are becoming more empowered. They are also too naive to realize the simple fact that humans can be savages, when no one is watching them. Rape will always happen and it is the rapist that should take all blame.
Yes Sheik Taj Din al-H did say that if that is who you're referring to. However the Qu'ran simply states that a women SHOULD wear a hijab so as not to tempt a man and to avoid unneeded judgment. Anything besides that is just someone's opinion.
Also, many people, muslim and non-muslim blame women when they are victims of rape. The reasons are substantial and silly. It is just people to afraid to point out the faults in a society where women get treated like materials. I don't blame women. I blame men and the society that our forefathers created.
>>72343161
It doesn't matter. I'm just pointing out that just because muslims are human beings doesn't mean shit
Even the most awful people are human beings
>>72342868
So you don't want to conform to the laws of the United States where you are residing(by your flag), you want to conform to the laws of your God. Here in the United States, we have a thing where we may worship as we please and that is separate from our law and government and known as separation of church and state. If you don't want to conform the US law while residing here, you need to leave or we have a fundamental problem.
>>72336394
>>72343172
Here you go. Rub it in three times a day.
>>72336394
if real muslims get on pol the CIA/NSA is gonna be really busy
>>72343521
Not that they aren't already.
>>72339928
I'm raised Catholic but I've done a lot of research into Islam, took a class in college too which doesn't make me anything close to an expert but I did learn some stuff.
For example, have you ever heard of the Metropolitan Qurans? There were like four different versions in print in four different cities at one time. And you do know that the Quran was an oral tradition that wasn't written down until 150 after the death of Mohammed? I wish it was as perfect as everyone says it's supposed to be but its just not.
Also, one thing I've always found incredibly curious is how Mohammed, after conquering Mecca, conveniently changed the tradition of the Kabbah from being a pilgrimage site for Arabian pagans into one that was the pilgrimage site for Arabian monotheists, thereby maintaining the main source of income in that city.
My professor always used to say Islam is a religion of merchants given the fact that it changed over the course of Mohammed's life to fit certain circumstances.
I like certain things about Islam, I really do, but there are a lot of issues I have with it too. What do you think about some of these things anon?
>>72343056
> but you are a pawn of the people who seek to create social divisions in west
I sadly already know this to be true anon. I'm just hoping, that with the goals I'm trying to accomplish, I can somehow let masses of people know that religion is not the issue that we should be tackling, it is ourselves. I'm actually glad to hear this from another anon as I really haven't heard it from people in a while! I hope you have a good day.
>>72343064
You're wrong. To be blunt with you as well. Why would I kill myself? Why would you want me to kill myself? Why are you so negative? Well anon, I hope you don't harm yourself. I hope you treat yourself and those around you better. :)
>>72343481
I think you need that more than me anon!
I'm getting 5 pages of reCaptcha's now so I'm taking a quick break. If any of you have questions throw them out there.
>>72336673
Why don't guys wear them then? Being an ugly guy is way worse than an ugly woman.
>>72342014
Saying a board is one person is an old retard reddit-shitstain argument
Personally I don't want to be in the presence of muslims because they're violent barbarians. Lefties are just annoying, but I ignore them. Muslims embrace movements that want to kill me for going about my business over government policy I have absolutely no power to change. I don't care what people of other religions are doing. If I walk through the streets of any Christian country, white, black, moor spics, etc I am massively statistically less likely to be killed then any muslim country, with a slim reduction in Turkey. The arab spring was your chance to stop being medieval animals and you just double-downed instead. Islam and true non-american Liberalism are enemies. Chanting Islamphobia at me doesn't work, because I know exactly why I hate a death cult founded by a pedophile warlord.
Either have your reformation or fuck off and die. Stop coming to my country until you learn to behave. And stop blaming whitey for being shit too, Japan and China are doing fine.
>>72343811
Yes. Take care~
>>72342868
So do we have problem anon?
>>72343770
You fool, the koran is the one perfect unchangeable unchanged book that has been with god in paradise since the beginning of time and is a clear guide to how to live life literally all science all law all everything is found in it and it was transmitted thru oral tradition and perfectly put together
Heathen.
>>72343770
>For example, have you ever heard of the Metropolitan Qurans? There were like four different versions in print in four different cities at one time. And you do know that the Quran was an oral tradition that wasn't written down until 150 after the death of Mohammed? I wish it was as perfect as everyone says it's supposed to be but its just not
" Toward the end of his life, Muhammad began to create a physical copy of the revelations, but he was unable to complete this project before his death in 632 A.D. In the following years, his most trusted companions undertook the task of collecting them from written and oral sources. The final codified consonantal form of the Qur’an is thought to have been produced during the reign of ‘Uthman (r. 644–56 A.D.), the third of the four “rightly guided caliphs” (al-khulafa-yi al-rashidun)."
The key point that I want you to look at is "righly guided caliphs". Firstly, the Caliphate is mostly formed out of shia muslims which I have previously said were extremists. It was the Caliphate that wished to find Prophet Mohamed's son-in-law Ali so as to make him ruler of the Caliphate. Men will always try to assert power through the rule of God. It has happened many times before this event. I have issues with religion as a total. If we were created by God with free will then why must we follow a doctrine without question? Of course this will never naturally happen because of our free will so do we blame God? Or do we blame ourselves? That's the only issue I have. Also, I would tell your professor that Judaism is more a religion of merchants, as the Torah has guidelines on how to become a successful banker!
This will officially be my last post for a bit.
everyone, I would like to introduce this liberal bitch to you, her name is lujain and she is a westernized saudi who does not like how her society is, she and her cuckband were stopped on valentines day which made them really upset because even on their valentines day, which btw is forbidden to celebrate in islam, they can't find a cinema to pay tribute to the filmjew. she and her husband are feminists, they'd love to see other women naked on the streets, and they'd love to have cinemas and possibly porn made available to everyone who seeks it.
now that i have introduced lujain to you fags, i would like to tell you the community's opinion of her and her husband.
1: he has no shame, probably wouldn't mint watching his wife get fucked.
2:she's a nobody, a nobody. the only thing that she really cares about is debauchery outspread.
now, the only thing that keeps this whore and her dog going is you guys, the west, the freedom fighters, the nosy moral superiors, the saviours of muh freedum, the cuckolds, the BBC lovers, the hedonism advocates.
>>72343811
Your relgion is a huge issue. Pick up the koran, it is all about conquering christians and jews and imposing archaic law on them. Extracting jozya from them. Putting them in second class status. Stop being so cute and come clean. We are sick of these lies.
You know the scriptures back what i am saying.
>>72342768
This. Muslims in Europe are propagating those kinds of idea. I've seen little kids explaining how it's normal for sisters to serve their brothers like maids (at best), how it's ok for a guy to fuck around but a girl will be shame for life if she had sex out of marriage (how does it works in muslim minds exactly ? who the hell guys are supposed to fuck then ?) and it's all "for the good of women".
Like I said, it's infantilizing, it's considering women to be less than men and muslims don't seem to realise it's a bit of a problem in countries based on the fact everyone should be equal in rights.
>>72343172
>they are too naive to see the worlds changing
But the koran never changes. Islam nevwr changes. New hadith are not being made. The window to interpretation has long been closed shut. You are a heretic according to a thousand years of islamic tradition.
Be glad you are not in an islamic country. Fight against islam so you and good people like you are mot victims in the future.
>>72336394
Are you saying pol needs more diversity?
>>72344660
Yes, freedom is so bad, we should just force everyone into behaving like we want to. Nothing wrong about that.
>>72342868
>>72343336
>>72344248
So anon, I guess there is a problem and it's not my problem it's yours. If no problem, welcome, if you have a problem, take it out of the United States before someone helps you change your thinking.
>>72336394
Muslims hate Jews.
There are no Muslims on pol.
>>72345055
I'm saying we should discuss religion to show everyone how wrong it is. When you're right, you can actually talk about stuff because the conversation will end up at some point proving you right. Because it's the truth.
Yeah I know it's hard to understand for an Israelian.
>>72345164
yes, freedom is bad, especially when you try to shove your version of freedom down my throat.
>>72345328
This woman apparently wants to watch porn and have sex with her husband and possibly other willing people.
At what point does it concern you exactly ?
>>72337702
>Shia are the extremists
Wahhabbism came from the Sunni's.
Also pretty sure, Al Queda and ISIS are variants of Sunni.
So no, the scum bags really appear to be mostly Sunni. All the Shia do is talk a big game about Israel and start proxy wars in Yemen.
DESU, I really loathe Sauds.
>>72345449
fucking frenchie degenerate.
look, if she wants to do what ever, i don't care, but spreading degeneracy is something that crosses so many red lines, and if you go back to the islamic law which is implemented in that country where she resides in, she should've been exiled a long time ago, but no, the west has influence and protect their useful idiots until they're not useful anymore.
fuck you frenchie.
but hey what ever i say you can easily reject you swine.
>>72345956
>the west has influence and protect their useful idiots
The west let you say what you want without fear of being molested for it.
I know, it's a difficult concept for a Muslim.
>>72343161
so explain to me....why did crime suddenly rise sky high in many areas in germany where all these "poor refugees" are.
Also 80% of them are no real refugees which by that fact makes them fucking lieing muslims but as we all know you niggers are allowed to lie to us non belivers.
In Germany we have no problem with japanese,koreans,french,belgians and so on....only with WHO WOULD HAVE GUSSED!
FUCKING PEOPLE FROM THE MIDDLE EAST
Your people literally behave like animals, they dont care about our social rules and how many things they do in public are considered very rude. They dont care about our culture and our language.
I love languages. I speak 3. I love to travel. I love other cultures BUT
I never want to get to know arab culture and Islam because I hate it thanks to all these niggers here.
>>72345882
there's no such thing as wahhabism you idiot, wahhabism is a shiite meme and you fell for it, muhammad bin abdulwahhab is a scholar who happen to be in the right place at the right time, he did nothing other than define unitarianism and the nullifiers of faith, all of which are derived from the quran with clear text no need for interpretations.
>>72343811
>I hope you treat yourself and those around you better. :)
Oh I will, mark my words.
>>72345328
Shove this down your throat then
>>72346100
no you fucking idiot, if i say what i want without using alleyways i would be on a watch list, and as we learn, those on the watch list can be jailed based on suspicion for years without a trial.
>>72336394
>we lack on /pol/ ? Muslims.
But if we lacked Muslims there'd be no problems OP
>>72346300
>ignores what I said about Al Queda and ISIS
It seems more and more clear over time that you're intelligence agencies are religious in nature.
In the same way that the US often embeds its intelligence aperatus into our Embassies it's becoming clear that the Suads, and other Middle Eastern power groups, use religious institutions in the same way.
Your religious institutions are simply a way to project power into the western world. Its really only a matter of time before you retards are subject to a massive backlash.
It's wierd to me that muslims don't understand how other people perceive their religion. I guess if you grow up in it, its hard to see it from the outside.
>>72346494
Well, if all you wanna say is "allah snackbar" and "kill XXX", don't act surprise if people gets suspicious. And "the watch list" is just keeping an eye on people who wants to create a "stone list" in the country who (strangely) accepted people like you.
But when it comes to ideas, to stuff you wanna do (and doesn't involve killing, raping or mutilating others), well i'm pretty sure the freedom the west is giving is the best solution, not some bearded people wearing dress.
Muslims are antithetical that everything that America stands for. To writ,
>believe that the family takes precedence in social policy
>firmly believe in the right to bear arms
>strong traditional of rebellion against tyrants
>covering up women
>putting tradition first
>only men given complete emancipation
do you really think the founding fathers would approve of such people?
>>72347065
>fought a war against Muslims pirates who said it was their right to rob kaffir.
>>72346815
when you know what you're talking about, maybe then i can consider what you say, but for now, pull your nose out of my asshole and keep your shit to yourself. no one cares how their religion is perceived by others, if they do they're weak.
for muslims, they've been warned by their god (120) Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion. Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance." Wert thou to follow their desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither Protector nor helper against Allah.
>>72336394
>Do you know what we lack on /pol/ ? Muslims. Real muslims.
I'll just harass them and call them child rapist or child rapist enablers, which is what they are.
>>72336673
Oh shit I'm so sorry I didn't see you.
You're a fucking traitor and a child rapist enabler. Also, Muhammad married his first cousin so he could have inbreed children with them. What a retard.
A good day to you.
>>72346837
yeah right, so many were experimenting with their vw beetles and turning them to gyrocopters were locked up and never seen again, yeah the gyrocopter was gonna be used as a suicide gyro, fuck you alright ?
>>72341571
Do you have a good reason to believe Muhammad was talking to an angel?
>>72336394
There is no debate to be had, /pol/ is a soapbox and as soon as any real debate starts the thread devolves into strawman arguments with no real rational open mindedness then the thread is closed and nothing results of it.
You have already made up your mind what the hijab means therefore you leave no room for discussion or changing your mind.
>>72347354
>>72347431
>>72347585
>implying the Hadiths are Quran
>>72347246
It's that sort of arrogance thats going to get you fucked.
Honestly, I do feel like if Muhammed were alive today I'd be honor bound to try and kill that piece of shit.
The list of shit:
>slaver
>pillager
>pedo
>warlord
>delusions of grandeur
In the end he was really just a 3rd rate warlord, and nothing in the religion is culturally significant. All it really did is give Arab tribes a pretext to unite and fuck over their neighbors.
Pretty scummy desu.
I tolerate you guys, cause I know there are alot of you that think you are moral people, and want to do the right thing.
I just get confused about how you can, in any way, in light of historical fact, think that Muhammed was in any way a moral person. At least not by modern standards.
As much as Muslims hate GW Bush, Muhammed did all the shit GW did, but worse.
When Americans came to Iraq we didn't genocide the men and dole out the women as sex slaves. I mean the guy is scum. How can you defend that behavior.
Have you ever seriously considered that the guy may have just been a shitty Genghis Khan with bullshit religious justifications?
>>72347891
>implying >>72347354 isn't the Koran
>implying you can understand the Koran without the hadith
>implying the notion of sleep as a time during God takes your soul isn't defined in the Koran
>>72343770
"Islam is a religion of merchant"
if there's one thing I love about Islam is the fact that the founder was a merchant. He married one of the most succesful businesswoman in his city. Sure he lived modestly but he was a capitalist. That's why I find it funny when some muslims go all "fuck capitalist" when the religion itself doesn't hate money.
>>72348084
xD, what are you 5 ?
you wouldn't kill a rooster that raped your sister.
>>72348390
Is this a sick burn in Sand Land?
I don't think it translate very well.
>>72336394
>Muslims. Real muslims.
Starting straight away with the no true Scotsman I see.
There's this thing called taqiyya, don't expect to hear the truth unless it's about killing jews or talking about how "red-pilled" their medieval religion is.
>>72348084
You seem irrationally mad braaah
>>72348087
I don't see your point of the Quran ordering men who are separating from their wives to not kick them out the house and to instead look after them?!
And no I don't need the hadith to understand the Quran thank you.
>>72336394
>For exemple I would love to talk with a muslim girl so I can ask how she can justify hiding her face beyond the usual "I'm a precious diamond" crap we hear in medias
Because muslim men are like dogs in front of a bone when they see a women. Rape is their culture, women had to adapt.
>>72336394
i grew up in south london in tooting for fucks sake
Ive known more muslims than any of you and from my experience there fine
this was in 2001-2004 though
I have no idea how Muslim-White relations got so good after 9/11
>>72348789
the same reason so many white non-Muslims embraced Islam since 9/11, it put Islam in the limelight and luckily a lot of people aren't lead by the nose of the media or by bad example and looked into Islam to find if its this awful evil religion and found the truth.
>>72348623
It's cause I spent a large part of my youth in the military fighting for American(Suadi) interests in the middle east.
Now I get to go to school and see these Saudi kids driving around in swagged out sports cars.
Every day I have to suppress the urge to not dumptruck one of these little faggots.
Word of mouth is they are aloud to cheat on exams cause their parents sue the shit out of the uni when they are caught cheating.
They are lazy shitty people, soft. Basically after 9-11 our leaders sold us out and had us fight for the people we should have been fucking murdering.
I feel like I'm being pretty rational about this. Perhaps not. It could be some form of PTSD.
I think whats important is that I havn't hurt anyone. So I'm doing ok I think. Its hard to wrestle these demons.
>>72349246
Shit I saw a law and order episode where some solider killed a couple muslims because he was still in war mode
you could get away with it desu
>>72348671
>I don't see your point of the Quran ordering men who are separating from their wives to not kick them out the house and to instead look after them?!
You obviously haven't read what's given in the pic or are purposefully missing the point. The rules given for divorce include the case in which a girl has not yet been menstruated for the fact of being too young.
This necessarily implies that the Koran itself, the highest source of authority in Islam, condone the practice of child marriage. This is the point of the picture. This interpretation is then concordant with the supplementary evidence given by the hadith and many scholarly opinion.
As for the possibility of interpreting the Koran without the hadith, I will refer to pic related, as well the interpretation of Ibn Kathir, which makes extensive use of the hadith in order to explicate the meaning of the Koran, and shows the great explanatory power that the tradition of the prophet gives to the interpretation of the """"revelation"""".
Note also that the fact that if you make any use of any sort of historical context in your understanding of the Koran, you are also, by necessity, referring to the hadiths. If you refuse to use them, you will never be able to say, for instance, that such and such violent verses refer to this or that specific enemy, as it would be a reference to an historical context which could only have been known from the hadith or something similar to it, like the earliest biographies.
>>72349421
I feel like whats going to happen is that one of them is going to hold eye contact with me too long and I'm just going to dumptruck his bitch ass and smear my foot all over his face.
>>72345882
>start proxy wars in Yemen.
you owe me a keyboard.
>>72348084
>At least not by modern standards.
By modern standards our ancestors were virtually all quite horrible people. The wise understand that times do change, and context matters.
>>72349558
Child marriage was practiced in the Bible too. It did not equate to child rape, more like a long engagement. It wouldn't be consummated till she was old enough, and he wasn't forced to wait for her either - remember polygamy is a thing.
>>72350189
>Child marriage was practiced in the Bible too. It did not equate to child rape, more like a long engagement. It wouldn't be consummated till she was old enough, and he wasn't forced to wait for her either - remember polygamy is a thing.
If I tell you that something terrible happen to be in the Koran and if you then tell me that something terrible is also in the bible, then this only tells me that the same terrible thing is both in the bible and in the Koran.
Furthermore, there is no point in trying to defend the practice by stating that it was customary to marry children at the time. The Koran is not merely a historical record, but rather the revelation of the moral law of God, good for all times and places. The relevance of its injunction are thus contemporary. They are things which must be evaluated today, not historical events to be understood in context.
The only people who can make a relativistic interpretation of the Koran are those who do not believe in it, those who believe it to be a product of man and its environment. For the believers, it is the immutable laws of the creator of the universe. They have relevance today.
As for the point at which the marriage can be consummated, I can only refer to Bukhari. It seems as though a man was able to have sexual relationship with his child bride as soon as it was determined that she could bear children.
>>72350189
They were horrible, but they were survivors. They'd have no place in the modern world, which is why literal interpretations of Islam are incompatible with the modern world. It wouldn't be so bad, but there is instruction in the Quran that it is ONLY to be read literally.
At least with the Bible you can say, hey this is metaphorical and you can read into it some modern ideas of morality.
>>72349558
I'm not reading yet another pic taken from the cherry pick website which is obviously going to be one of those Islam hatred websites I am sticking to one point.
The image you provided that you referred me to and told me that it WAS from the Quran I simply pointed out that it was referring to DIVORCE and you missed the point.
You can't just cherry pick a quote and take it out of context then pad it out with quotes from 'scholars'.
The surah is here in its entirety.
http://quran.com/65
Notice it is headed with "Al-Taraq (The Divorce)".
You can't kick out a wife if she is pregnant and if she has entered menopause and I know what you are trying to imply means prepubescent girls by the line OR those that have not yet menstruated.
Well if you had a brain you would know that during pregnancy a woman does not have her period, therefore you must wait until after pregnancy and after she has had 3 cycles.
It also covers cases of other reasons women may have had a gap in their menstrual cycle which could be medical reasons.
I know you aren't interested in any of that because you want to use the example of those filthy men who use it to justify underage marriage, therefore you are a closed book and as I already mentioned, there is no open minded discussions, you are just hear to spout what you read on the likes of wiki-islam and other hatred filled sites.
>>72347701
>>72339996
What an Uttley stupid comment
>>72350864
I should clarify actually by waiting three cycles I am referring to three lunar cycles.
>>72340242
this sort stupid logic is what muslims sex offenders use defending them selves... women dressed immodestly therefore tempted me.... therefore deserves to be raped.. fl
>>72351351
Women are asked to dress modestly in Islam, do you understand what modestly means and do you understand not all Muslims interpret this via Hadith to mean to dress like ninjas?
>>72351590
That they feel the need to impose this standard on non-muslims is yet another reason they should be expulsed from modern societies.
>>72336394
>Real muslims.
Boku is haram, they're not allowed to use the shaitanic letter-pressing thingies.
>>72350756
>If I tell you that something terrible happen to be in the Koran and if you then tell me that something terrible is also in the bible, then this only tells me that the same terrible thing is both in the bible and in the Koran.
No I am telling you that if you think this justifies treating Islam itself as the problem (instead of particular muslims and perhaps even particular predominantly muslim cultures) then consistency demands you do the same thing with Christians. Which virtually no one does (and I don't want you to do that, I want you to think about it so you quit doing al-qaedas work for them by encouraging more blind anti-muslim sentiment rather than focused awareness of the specifically wahhabi threat.)
>>72350756
>Furthermore, there is no point in trying to defend the practice by stating that it was customary to marry children at the time.
What I am saying is it's foolish to project our current mores back in time, and it's also foolish to reify our current mores as the only acceptable way. It's particularly funny for me when it's done as a way of bashing muslims because I understand just how much of what we see shockingly backward today was actually the normal accepted thing in our own countries in earlier times, sometimes only a couple of generations back.
>those who believe it to be a product of man and its environment.
Everyone with two brain cells understands that about everyone elses $holy_book and with three you should realize it applies to your own as well.
>>72350839
You don't appear to understand that there is a large and growing component of Christians who are literalists as well.
There's more to this, like the Irish troubles, it's not really about religion, religion is at most an equal party with secular politics in creating this problem.
>>72347065
they literally went to war with them..
>>72350864
>I'm not reading yet another pic taken from the cherry pick website which is obviously going to be one of those Islam hatred websites
I made these. They are excerpt from books written by muslims of some reputation, usually holding some form of credentials in one of the field of Islamic knowledge. I make sure to pick sources which can have a claim of authority.
>I simply pointed out that it was referring to DIVORCE and you missed the point.
Can you divorce someone you have not first married?
>Well if you had a brain you would know that during pregnancy a woman does not have her period, therefore you must wait until after pregnancy and after she has had 3 cycles.
This is not a tenable interpretation. The case of "normal", ie. of child bearing age, women is already covered. The two cases given in verse four can therefore only be about women who are not of child bearing age. These women are either too old or two young.
The same interpretation is given in Tafhim-ul-Quran. I have not checked whether it is also the same in Ibn Kathir, Shades of the Koran and "The message of the Koran" by Muhammad Asad.
>>72351886
There is no compulsion in Islam, you are referring to the misguided, not to true Muslims, I do not want to impose anything on you as it is forbidden, I can only offer you an open door but I cannot bring the door to you nor push you through it.
I hope that made sense.
> mfw this thread
>>72352218
>There is no compulsion in Islam
Whew lad, I guess that makes Muhammed not a Muslim then.
>>72352047
We literally went to war with (some) of them (for sanctioning piracy against our flag, a legitimate cause) and we literally beat their ass and then gave them fair peace terms. Included among those terms was this little tidbit. Just FYI.
>>72336394
Let's not appease the religion of piss on here.
Read the Quaran or go on any Islam q and a. And see what the religion is for what it is.
I'm also butthurt seeing my homeland (Egypt) succumbing to these fucks. Thank god Sisi put the brotherhood where they belong.
>tfw your family church is burned to the ground :-(
Muslims can be good people but only when they don't follow Islam.
>>72352218
It just means you are a westernized Muslim.
But we know that living in a Majority Muslim country means state oppression of religious minorities. Every single Muslim country. Malaysia, Indonesia, Saud, even the golden child Turks.
Maybe the Tunisians will break the tradition of Islams suppression of minority faiths, and non-believers, but I doubt it.
With this background of state oppression in majority Islamic societies, one can't help but call into question the authenticity of what you said.
You may not actually be an oppressor, but if Islamic countries are anything to go by, then you would likely not willingly speak out against Islamic oppression.
>>72351590
What is modesty?
>>72352555
was not criticizing bra... fully aware of the backround
>>72352003
>consistency demands you do the same thing with Christians.
Christians are preoccupied with the Christian doctrine which comes with its specific set of problems. One of the problem it does not have is the impression that it is a government system. If it did have such problems I would treat it in exactly the same way as I do Islam.
>it's also foolish to reify our current mores as the only acceptable way
This misses the point. Either Islam is a revelation of eternal value for the moral guidance of humankind or it isn't. If it is, it is no use to appeal to context. If it isn't, we need not be muslim.
>Everyone with two brain cells understands that about everyone elses $holy_book and with three you should realize it applies to your own as well.
Muslims do not believe the Koran to be a product of man's environment but rather of God's infinite wisdom and knowledge. It sits outside the context of men and it is only because it is alleged to be so that it is purported to be able to serve as a guide to men.
Were muslims to tell us that the Koran is the product of its context and environment, we would be forced to conclude that God's moral guidance, his mercy to mankind, was influenced by the local concerns of some tribe, in some place, at some time, and that He therefore needed to cater to their specific needs and interests, which may very well not be our needs or interests. Under such circumstances, we would not need to regard this God as being either omnipotent or omniscient, neither would we need to be muslims, as our circumstances vastly differ for those we were adapted to Muhammad's tribe.
>>72352123
>Can you divorce someone you have not first married?
No, nor can you marry a child.
Therefore the process of divorce and waiting for three menstrual cycles or if they can't have periods (because of physiological reasons) wait three months, this also applies to women who have entered menopause, three months or 'moon cycles'.
It's rather clear if you don't rely on misinterpretations by Islamophobic websites or indeed even crooked Muslims who will manipulate it to excuse marrying children.
Remember, for a woman to marry they must be matured physically, mentally and spiritually.
Then they must also abide by the law of the land (age of consent), so EVEN if the age of consent was lowered to lets say 10, a Muslim would not be allowed to marry a girl because she has not matured, will some Muslims marry children anyway? of course, this is a human being problem, not an Islam thing, let us not forget that less than 100 years ago 8 year old girls would be married in the West too.
And test the orphans until they attain puberty; then if you find in them maturity of intellect, make over to them their property, and do not consume it extravagantly and hastily, lest they attain to full age; and whoever is rich, let him abstain altogether, and whoever is poor, let him eat reasonably; then when you make over to them their property, call witnesses in their presence; and Allah is enough as a Reckoner. – Quran 4:6
>>72352332
Quran 2:256
you're welcome.
>>72352713
Is wearing a low cut top with your boobs hanging out, your arse showing under a skirt modest?
If you need a rule of thumb would you want your mother or your daughter dressing like that, if not why not, modesty is to leave something to the imagination and not cheapen yourself to the level of the whore.
>>72352662
You see you are mistaking culture for religion mate, I am not a Hadithist nor a Muhammadan, I am just a Muslim with a Quran and no middleman nor culture from Arabia, you can call it 'Westernised Muslim' but most Westernised Muslims are wearing cultural clothing which is not Islamic, it was in existence before Islam.
>>72353273
>nor can you marry a child
This point is precisely that contested. I have provided two expert reference as to the fact that the passage in question refers to girl who have not yet had their menstruation for being too young to have them.
I will now provide a third one, which is Kathir and is in pic related.
>Remember, for a woman to marry they must be matured physically, mentally and spiritually.
Are those your own values of those given by the Islamic sources? I have now given reference to three interpretation, all of them by people which, to say the least, are at least as qualified as you are, who believe that there is no lower limit on the age of marriage in Islam. I have, in fact, provided four if you count >>72350756.
Koran 4:6 says nothing of marriage.
>will some Muslims marry children anyway? of course
This is irrelevant. Muslims may or may not follow the law of Islam which changes nothing regarding what that law may be. What was customary to do in the west is also irrelevant. It says nothing about what the law of Islam is.
>>72353610
Then going by your definition.. as long as boobs are covered and skirt that covers the privates that is modest... if that is all that it takes to be modest then why wear hijab at all? thanks for so long to try and think of a definition... btw
>>72336394
jordanian christian grew up with muslims my whole life before i moved to Canada for university.
i can probably give you a pretty accurate enough answer.
>>72354864
where you or family oppressed in any way??
>>72336673
Dude. They're walking around in giant garbage bags. Empowered? They can't go take a swim at a public pool. For fuck's sake
>>72355095
we lived in the capital Amman. other than the occasional backwards thinking bullshit from certain islamist tribes (which are not that concentrated in the capital), no. Christians are a successful minority in Jordan, kind of like the Jews in the US, except the Christians have no power over politics in Jordan.
>>72346300
>no need for interpretations
>let's ignore hundreds of years of islamic scholarship
This is why salafists suck dick
>>72336673
>muslim
>A
>FUCKING
>LEAF
checks out famalam
move along nothing to see here.
>>72336394
Muslims don't believe in a free and open internet.
>>72354067
"Divorced women shall keep themselves in waiting for three menstrual courses and it is unlawful for them, if they believe in Allah and the Last Day, to hide whatever Allah might have created in their wombs. Should their husbands desire reconciliation during this time they are entitled to take them back into wedlock."
Quran 2:228
What has that got to do with your claim of child marriage? You are moving the goal posts.
>Are those your own values
No, hence the surah I quoted.
>Islamic sources
I read from the Quran, if you want to use wiki-Islam or corrupt Hadith that is your problem not mine.
>Quran 4:6 says nothing of marriage
No it doesn't, I am pointing out that even at puberty they are still not considered marriage material until they have matured in other ways.
>I have provided three interpretations
>are at least qualified as you are
says whom? why do you take the word of 'scholars' over mine when I read the Quran alone and do not prescribe to the false Hadiths?
>This is irrelevant
No it isn't, you just told me three scholars have more say than I do, therefore you will believe whom you want rather than just read the Quran yourself and look into it.
Like I said, you are't asking, you are telling me, and nothing you say is original nor debunked so this isn't a debate, you're just going to keep referring to the same tired arguments and not listen to a single counter claim.
>>72355315
is that just down to numbers?
>>72355500
>A woman who devorces her husband has to take him back if less than three months have passed and he changes his mind
What a shitty system. Fuck Islam.
>>72354542
When did I say you have to wear what you think is the hijab?
I am telling you Muslim women who dress in all that nonsense are doing so because of Hadiths, not because of Quran, this is the problem when the majority of Muslims are as misled than the Islamophobes (hate that word btw).
>>72355529
partly, but there are also some laws like the prime minister can never be a christian
>>72353833
Culture is a really mushy term.
I think that the Quran predisposes some people to a totalitarian interpretation.
I understand that this is the case with many religions.
I'd be interested to hear your interpretation of this era of Jihad. Whats different now then a 60 years ago? Recent Islamic interpretations have had, in my opinion, a very retrograde effect on many countries that were somewhat secular.
Is it just me or the hijabs are so hot.
Was in Dubai few days ago, girl who is wearing tight clothes(those legs dam) and hijab, you can see her eyes and eyebrows but her face is hidden.
Judgin by eyes and eyebrows I know she is smokin hot, but the fact that you can't see her face makes it like double the hot.
>>72355709
So good Muslims should ignore the hadiths and just follow the Koran? what do the hadiths say?
>>72355741
the difference is that wahhabists have waaay too much power and influence
>>72355500
>What has that got to do with your claim of child marriage? You are moving the goal posts.
My whole claim since the beginning is that Islam legalizes child marriage.
>I read from the Quran, if you want to use wiki-Islam or corrupt Hadith that is your problem not mine.
All that we have been arguing about so far has been the Koran. Specifically, Koran 65:4 and its interpretation. I have provided three interpretation from Koranic experts where it acknowledged that it refers to child marriage. Here is a fourth from "Shades of the Koran".
>No it isn't, you just told me three scholars have more say than I do, therefore you will believe whom you want rather than just read the Quran yourself and look into it.
But I did read the Koran and can see what 65:4 says. It talks of those who have no menstruation. Prepubescent girls are in that class. I then rely on those people who are considered to be "scholarly" in the field. They have dedicated their lives to the study of Islam and the Koran and did it professionally.
>>72356203
>cant see her face
>double hot
what?
>>72356203
Question if I'm turned on by women in hijabs more so than the average normal dress.. does that mean Muslim women are being imodest??
>>72355500
>I read the Quran alone
lol. You don't have the training or authority to interpret holy texts for yourself anon. This is some serious anti-fedora-ism right here.
Enjoy your heresy while you remain in the UK. I seriously hope you don't do this anywhere where people actually give a shit about religion.
>>72356383
It means you need to go back to reading Una Mullally IT columns faggot.
>>72355596
Nope, again you were mislead.
"And if you have divorced the women, and they have reached their required interim period, then either you remain together equitably, or part ways equitably. And do not reconcile with them so you can harm them out of animosity; whoever does so is doing wrong to his soul; and do not take the revelations of Allah as mockery. And remember the blessings of Allah upon you, and what was sent down to you of the Book and the wisdom, He warns you with it. And be aware of Allah and know that Allah is knowledgeable of all things."
Quran 2:231
>>72355741
Absolutely agree, there are many who interpret the Quran or rather use the Hadith to manipulate God fearing Muslims to live the way THEY want and not how the Quran states at all.
You seem genuinely interested and open minded and happy to discuss but fear the thread is nearing its end.
>I'd be interested to hear your interpretation of this era of Jihad
Jihad as you say is yet another abused word from the Quran, it means struggle, when I was doing my exams at school it was my Jihad at that time, when a beloved friend had cancer it was his Jihad to cope with the process which lead ultimately to his death and my Jihad to see him go through this, but now when we hear Jihad it is often attributed to terrorists which has instilled fear out of the word.
Is there a Jihad for war? absolutely yes, but Jihad is not to behead captive, torture them or to fly planes into buildings, this is pure and simply terrorism.
I do not shy away from the word Jihad but I know to educate anybody scared of the term, there are people doing their Jihad right now fighting against ISIS, these are Muslims, I cannot call an ISIS member a non-Muslim, I cannot make that judgement as it is a private matter and they know what awaits them in the afterlife, I condemn personally their actions but I do not feel compulsion to any moreso than Joe the brick layer who isn't religious who would also condemn their actions.
>>72356571
>Una Mullally
who is this cunt and why should I care...
>faggot
Ur gaydar is a little off
>>72336394
I'm a 22 year old Muslim male. I'll answer any questions you or any another anons may have to the best of my abilities
>>72356956
do you love your host country as much as natives ?
what would you feel if uk were at war with a muzz country?
oumma or nation?
>>72357335
pls respond to >>72357428
>>72356227
I cannot say 'good Muslims' because many who do wear the hijab, niqab or burka will be good Muslims they just don't realise they are partaking in unnecessary cultural things that are not required by the Quran.
The hadiths interpret the words and add to them and twist them, the word hijab for a start means covering, is a jumper not a covering?
For an example of Hadithists, notice when a Muslim (or rather a Sunni usually) is pointing out all the good parts of Islam and spreading the word (Dawah) they always quote from the Quran, they always point out the wonders and the magic and the love from the Quran, they say "read the Quran" but then they have a big beard, wearing thobe and don't mention "The Quran is a book that is easy to read .... oh but by the way heres a whole series of books called the Hadith you also need to read because we don't think the Quran is clear enough".
Here is the perfect video people should watch to know about Hadith, he is wearing cultural clothing, nothing to do with his beliefs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC4TuYrSNJs
People have been killed for exposing the Hadiths, there may be some truth in the Hadiths but many Hadiths go against the Quran and are contradict each other, the Quran alone is complete, Muhammad himself would usher people out after meals as to not partake in chitter chatter incase people wrote books to mislead people and that is exactly what they did thus defying Muhammad who had one simple task, to bring the words, to have them put into one book and throughout the Quran there is zero mention about extra books and in fact clarifies that rumour books should be dismissed and that the Quran alone is complete and perfect.
There may be problems in translation but that is why it is best to learn Arabic and thus the translation cannot be misrepresented.
"These are God's revelations that We recite to you truthfully. In which hadith other than God and His revelations do they believe?" 45:6
>>72354542
>>72356337
>>72356383
yeah, actually, that's kind of how it works.
dressing modestly means dressing in a way that conceals rather than reveals the natural attributes with which women normally influence men. if you lived in a time and place where hijabs were overtly sexualized, where they were associated with glamor and prostitution for instance, then it would not be modest to wear one in that time and place.
>>72357769
I was born in America so it's not exactly my "host country".
That being said, I hate what America is today. I love what America used to be pre 1900s before corporations and Jews ruined western culture and morality.
I hope Trump can at least somewhat restore this country to what it once was, or burn Washington to the ground and rebuild this country from the ashes.
I believe old America would've actually been able to get along with some Muslim countries, and that the hostility between the Middle East and America is a result of America's foreign policy in the last century.
So I consider myself a true American. A patriot of the old America, not of the oligarchy we have today.
>>72356571
>lol. You don't have the training or authority to interpret holy texts for yourself anon
Says whom?
>>72357428
>do you love your host country as much as natives ?
This is my native country, unless I go back to some Viking invasion which could be where my ancestry comes from I'm not sure.
>what would you feel if uk were at war with a muzz country?
I don't like any war but I understand why it happens, if its Muslim or not whomever is in the wrong and the finer point of the reasoning should be the question.
>oumma or nation?
I'm not sure of your question.
>>72358368
imagine a situation where you have to choose between uk and the muslim community (called oumma in french) what would you choose ? how would you feel choosing between muslims brothers and your fellow countrymen ?
>>72358242
are you a shitskin or a converted ?
>>72358861
My parents are from northern Iran. So technically shitskin but I look Russian
>>72359113
shia or sunni ?
>>72358761
I don't quite understand the concept of choosing, what am I choosing? I do not pick a country this is just the land in which I am born and reside, I do not pick to be part of a community because the community are just residing in that land.
If there was a holy war and I was told "you must choose to fight to protect Queen and country and kill Muslims" then first I reject any loyalty to a Monarchy anyway as I only humble at the feet of Allah, and I would make the decision based on many factors, why are they fighting? who are they fighting? Would I side with ISIS or against them? silly question, against because they are corrupting my religion and are terrorists, not because the Queen or the Prime Minister says so.
It is too vague a situation to really comment on because it doesn't make a lot of sense, if a country decided "lets kill all Muslims" then I would side with the Muslims as they are the persecuted ones, I would also side with the Jews in Nazi Germany, do you see what I mean?
>>72357020
My newfag detector is working just fine.
>>72358368
>Says whom?
Says me. I don't even need to read the Koran or whatever the fuck spelling or any other shit to know that some autistic 4chan poster can't just pick up the book and decide for himself that it's all about euphoria and anti-bikinis and milky PG Tips. Serious fucking faggotry to suggest otherwise senpai.
Literally if we both went right now up before some ISIS desert theatre court or whatever, and you said half the bullshit you're shitposting right now, and I just said, "he's a heretic", you'd get your balls chopped off and I'd get an conversion offer or whatever the fuck. No fucking imam, ayatollah or cleric would disagree with me, because you're fucking wrong. You're not free to interpret religious texts however you like. You have to get the approval of the local cleric, and/or the backing of the local government to interpret it in the way they want.
You're not a protestant and you're not an american. You're not even Irish. You're a brit-cuck and your religion is to be intrepreted for you by your betters. So go back to watchign channel 4.
>>72359212
My families Shia but I dont really give a shit between Shia and Sunni. I just consider myself Muslim first and foremost and so does my gf, but since her families Sunni I go to Sunni mosque with her.
>>72359391
so let's assume than in the future the people of uk decide than islam is a threat to the nation and decide to ban muslim from the kingdom, what would you think ? i know it's a silly question but the main problem i have with muslims is that you never sure of their loyalty
>>72336673
>most muslim women are empowered as fuck,
Why is it that most muslim women never bother to learn a native language or even leave their house?
They won't shake my hand, look me in the eye, or respond to critical questions. They sure seem like braindead monkeys to me
>>72360396
Because they're not whores that want your dick Chad.
This is what modesty is
Islam has a lot of violent baggage that they need to handle.
It pretty much goes down like this: The average Muslim is just your standard person doing standard stuff. If they live in a backwards shithole, then they act like backwards shitters. The average Muslim is just your standard Abrahamic Theist, Don't go against cultural established morals or else face after-life consequences.
The ones who get vested in Islamic Scripture find plenty of verses and justifications to conquer and see non-Muslims as lesser beings. We can call these guys "Radicals", basically more devoted to the scripture of Islam. They read the Quran and realize that they can go around conquering and imposing their will onto outsiders that are not invested in Islam.
Conversations go pretty much like this:
"I'm an average Arab that subscribes to Islam. I believe we should all aspire to be more like Muhammad."
>"I'm utterly devoted to Islam and the teachings and acts of Muhammad. I believe we should all aspire to be more like Muhammad."
"We believe the same things. I'll tell others all the good things Muhammad taught us to be good people."
>"And I'll use violence and threats against non-believers, as Muhammad has done and taught us to do."
"I'll go on /pol/ and give infidels doubt and a false sense of security by quoting verses and cultural aspects that appeal to their sensibilities."
>"I'll inspire the desire for Jihad among our brethren and intimidate others who attempt to rise against us."
"I will condemn you in front of the infidels, but I support you. Taqiyya, brother.
>*nods respectfully towards you*
Islam is basically a mix between Theocratic Imperialism and Abrahamic Theism. The average Muslim basically acts like the average Christian with interchangeable cultural differences that may or may not be worse, but there is a sub-division within Islam that actually carries out violence and preaches hate towards outside groups.
TL;DR: Islam is subversive and violent cancer.
Bait and saged
>>72359391
>I would side with the Muslims as they are the persecuted ones
Removing all muslims would be analogous to the mass poisoning of mosquitos even though only half bite and spread disease, it has been a long time coming
>>72359582
>Says me. I don't even need to read the Koran
Yeah you kinda do actually, I can't say Harry Potter is a rubbish book just because I think that but having never read it.
>if we went to ISIS
there's the problem, ISIS aren't Islam that I know, yes they wouldn't like what I say and kill me, but so what, they are terrorist Hadithists and Allah will see to them in the afterlife.
I don't see why you assume ISIS are to be held up as the upholders of the Quran and not me lol. I read the Quran and didn't see the part where you drown people in a cage personally, maybe I missed a page?!
I'll stop you here, the problem is you are likely Catholic, you have been told what to believe, you have been informed that the only way to heaven is to go through the priests, confession ect, well many protestants would tell you that you are wrong and that you only need the Bible, the thing is you're both not following Jesus, you're following the Gospel, mainly of Paul, you are in fact the reason the Quran came to be, you are following Hadiths yourself as the New Testament is not Jesus's gospel, it is hearsay.
You carry a lot of anger and hostility.
Pick up the Quran, read it and yes you may need help interpreting it, I don't thank you, but if you think the Scholars whom put the Quran under a mountain of other books and believe heresay are the only ones who can interpret then my friend you are mistaken but not alone and in fact many many Muslims unfortunately agree because they have become as misguided and corrupted as the Christians, Catholics and Jews.
"Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?" 6:114
“ ….. We did not leave anything out of the book; then to their Lord they will be summoned.” 6:38
“….. We have brought the Book down to you providing explanations for all things plus guidance and mercy and giving news to the submitters.” 16:89
Inshallah you will read Quran.
>>72359687
from what i know sunni is more political than shia so more problematic for secular countries
what would you choose between stay muslim and stay in usa ?
>>72360251
Then I would leave the country to seek a country that isn't against freedom of religion.
Would I go to Saudi Arabia? preferably not but if I am chased to the last edge of the Earth I would die before I submit to anybody than Allah.
If the Muslims fought the British because lets say we get a far right leader who decides to ban Islam and the only choice is for me to fight against the government then I would do so for the sake of defending my religion but not to defend the Hadithists as I don't agree with them on many things so I am pretty much a tiny minority and it would be the same if I had to protect a Jew, a Christian or Catholic or anybody for being oppressed, I do not belong to a country, I belong to God Allah and am but a human on the Earth.
>>72360396
Hadith forbids women and men shaking hands, don't take it personally, they don't shake hands of Muslim men either.
>>72360566
So if I were to go to a good, christain, American town in 1850s America this is how the woman would act as well?
Or do women only have to act this modest in fear of getting raped when they live in countries that are half-nigger (like muslim countries)?
>>72361269
ok no surprise here
if france decided to remove kebab would you come here to defend them ?
you told me you're an ethnic british, so do you live among shitskins or did you get close to islam by curiosity ?
>>72338719
This.
>I'm not interested in what they have to say, their religion is laughably false, their defense of it with violence is the most egregious violation of planetary stability in history, their people are just fools.
All that needs to be said.
>>72361372
Why won't they look me in the eye?
Why do they refuse to assimilate into the culture they immigrated into (it seems like they just wish to preserve their muslim, arabic culture)?
Why are all the women unable to speak English? I work in health care and I cannot communicate with these women. I can not teach them how to properly give these antibiotics to their children because they do not speak english, they won't look at me, and they certainly won't sake my hand (like every other culture, especially mine, does)?
>>72360792
The problem is the Hadiths, every time they corrupt Muslims.
Trust me on that, every negative thing you will see about Muslims will boil down to something that is in the Hadith books not in the Quran, the problem is what people know as Islam today is not Islam, it is Sunni, there was never sects in Islam until the Hadiths and the scholars and the Saudi corruption and so on and so forth.
I don't blame you one iota for your opinion, it is very easy to see where you are coming from.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_ksTsUkKtA
When confronted with the idea of Quran alone the clerics go all out to spit on the idea, why are they so against the idea of a side of Islam that dismisses all the evil throughout Islam? who in their right mind would be against anybody who puts it rather simply:
If we are supposed to live by Muhammads example and in the Quran Muhammad states to follow Quran alone then why believe hearsay stories that put Muhammad in a bad light, make him a paedophile, make him a warmonger, a killer of slaves, a rapist?
UNLESS they want Islam to be seen as this of course.
It should be so clear and so simple, much like the Quran is, yet they want to muddy the waters and keep Islam back in the stone age and seen as a detestable hate filled cult, because it offers them power, riches and puts them above women and allows them to marry children while killing those who question their lifestyle and sincerity to the Quran.
they are here, you just have to draw them out of the wood work like the roaches they are
>>72361826
Because Hadiths keep them locked into their cages (metaphorical) and kept back from being liberated free independent women who can have both their religion and engage in Western culture.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JONeTC9Mzk
>>72360827
>Yeah you kinda do actually, I can't say Harry Potter is a rubbish book just because I think that but having never read it.
No I kinda don't actually. I can say Harry Potter is rubbish by default because it's a young adult fantasy novel which are just trash by default. Anyway the proper analogy is me saying, without ever having read it, that you can't decide for yourself to interpret Harry Potter as an allegorical commentary on the socio-economic upheavals of 17th century Siam because that would be fucking retarded and I don't need to read the books to know that.
> You carry a lot of anger and hostility.
I am a shitposter of peace. You are simply wrong. You're a heretic, and you're wrong. It's kind of funny actually.
>>72362264
>a muslim that doesn't follow the hadiths
you're like one in a million dude
all islamic stects follow hadiths i think
you seem kinda lost
>>72361811
I would not come to remove kebab removal unit by default, I would as a human being do my thing to defend freedom including freedom of religion but if lets say the Muslims of France had a civil war against the natives I would not side with the 'Muslims' at all.
>do you live among shitskins
No, but I have lived among them but not as a Muslim myself, never had any bother with them.
>or did you get close to islam by curiosity ?
Kinda, I was born, Christened, Atheist at 8, Agnostic by late teens, and became very anti-Islam and studied and studied and it always came down to one source of the problem, the Hadiths, then I looked into if it was possible to be a Muslim without Hadiths because I always found the Quran itself to be fine, and lo and behold I found there were Quran alone Muslims.
The irony being the most famous Muslim of all was a Quran alone Muslim.
Muhammad, makes sense doesn't it?!
>>72362935
So to understand Harry Potter I need to read 6 other books and listen to scholars, ok well that's your opinion, have a nice night.
>>72363072
>one in a million
unfortunately yes, despite the fact many of us exist and Muhammad himself was obviously a Quran alone Muslim yes we are of a minority.
>all islamic sects follow hadiths
some follow some hadiths, another follow another set, they all disagree and argue, that is why I am not of a sect, I am just Muslim.
>you seem kinda lost
Not at all, I feel what is lost is true Islam sadly.
>>72360921
Stay Muslim if I had to choose.
But if I were Christian I'd choose to stay Christian too.
I consider myself a patriot to the real America, but my devotion to God is the most important thing in my life to me.
Now if you were to ask me would I choose to side with the Muslim people or the American people, it would depend on the circumstances, but seeing as a majority of Muslims choose to segregate themselves from white people and only associate with other minorities, I'd probably be inclined to side with the American people.
>>72361396
>So if I were to go to a good Christian, American town in 1850s America this is how the woman would act as well?
Christianity has been degenerate since after the 1500s. If you were to to back to medieval Europe when Christianity was at its fully glory, then your answer would be yes.
>>72363890
you're like the opposite of a representative "european" muslim, your views are kinda worthless for me even if they are interesting
i wont even consider your removal
>>72336394
Yeah we need real ISIS tier Muslims. I mean we are both basically a group a peaceful people. We are a website of peace and they are a religion of peace.
>>72364234
what is the most common origin of muslim immigrants here?
>>72365227
I'm not an immigrant so I wouldn't know
>>72365409
but sunnis are the majority right?
you said i didnt gave a shit bout shia or sunni but did you read quran and hadith? do you folow what you cheikh say to you ?
>>72365756
Sunni's are the majority. I follow the Qur'an. I'm not sure if Shia's follow the Hadith or not. I know for a fact we do not follow the Sunnah, and Shia's don't have Sheikh's. We have Mollah's which are pretty much the Shia equivalent, and Ayatollah's like the supreme leader of Iran who we listen to for guidance.
>>72366065
sunnah is one of the major problem, shia is retarded but less than sunni i think. sunnis will literally sabotage your integration i think.
does the ayatollah actively support the destruction of USA ?
Apostate britbottle here.
I was brought up to believe that the koran was the literal word of god. Realised this was bollocks by the age of 12.
By 18, I realised Islam was a moon-god worshipping, imperious death cult after I read the koran, hadith and sira.
Early koran: peace love unity
Later koran: political system of enforced empire
Abrogation means later passages superseded earlier ones and so Islam became a method for illiterate bedouins to justify their imperious impulses.
Fuck Islam.
>>72366974
He's against the USA because of their foreign policy of the last 100 years.
He has said that Iranians have nothing against the American people, but when Iranians chant "death to the USA" they are referring to the American government.
>>72366990
http://www.quran-islam.org/main_topics/quran/false_accusations/abrogation_claims_(P1216).html
>>72366990
paki or bait ?
>>72367282
is the end game of shia islam the establishment of world caliphate or is it sunnah retardation ?
would you live/marry a non muslim grill ?
>>72336673
>as it says in the religion
No it doesn't; considering the face as lewd as genitals is a Salafist perversion.
>most muslim women are empowered as fuck
A fucking leaf.
>>72336673
Bullshit. Fuck off
>>72345055
Top kek
Nice roleplaying though
>>72367375
paki. A free one, living in a pretty free country. Thank fuck.
>>72367337
Good laugh, cheers for that!
>>72367678
>is the end game of shia islam the establishment of world caliphate or is it sunnah retardation ?
As far as I know it's Sunnah retardation. Shia's as far as I know are just waiting it out until the end times when the hidden Imam will return with Jesus on judgement day.
>would you live/marry a non Muslim grill?
If she had good family values and had good morals, and was a loving and caring person, I'd consider it.
But women like that are non existent nowadays and the only way you'd find one is if you get lucky and find one of the few Muslim women who are still like that.
Like I said I don't really care if my wife is Sunni or Shia, in fact the girl I will hopefully end up marrying is Sunni, but Muslim girls are like Christian girls of the last millennia. If you want a loyal and caring wife, your only hope at finding her is within Islam. And even then it's still going to be hard as they're rare nowadays.
>>72368681
i see, shia are less incompatible with democracy than sunni for sure but still islam after all
does your qt wear hijab or veil ?
does your mollah/ayatollah tell you what to vote for us elections ? is he considering you as inside men that can overthrow the heretic gvt of USA ?
>>72368464
nice just remind me not to remove you
>>72369249
>does your qt wear hijab or veil ?
No. And honestly to me it's a good thing and a bad thing.
The fact that she doesn't wear hijab doesn't bother me at all, but if she did wear hijab it would be a huge plus for me, as to me a hijabi is someone who takes their religion more seriously as is generally more of an old fashioned girl when it comes to morals and modesty.
But at the same time, not wearing hijab shows me that she's more capable of assimilating and adaptive to western society, and it allows her to blend in with everyone else, where a hijabi would stick out and generally be more unfriendly towards westerners.
>does your mollah/ayatollah tell you what to vote for us elections ? is he considering you as inside men that can overthrow the heretic gvt of USA ?
No and no. As long as Israel controls America, it's foreign policy will never change regardless of who is president. Trump would be the best shot at bringing change to the government, but even then I don't see it happening as the president has no power in comparison to the lobbyists and special interest groups running the show.
Daily reminder that shias are not muslim.
/CROM/
>>72370336
Daily reminder that people like you are the reason Shia's and Sunni's are still split and you should appropriately kill yourself
Kosovo, a population of over 95% Muslim, is the country with the most religious freedom in the Balkans and #9 in the world.
http://interfaithkosovo.org/public/pdf/pdf-report.pdf
>>72369943
your position toward hijab is the good one. you should be aiming toward total assimilation and not segregation even if you still believe in islam. hijab segregate people and it's an insult for "host" secular country. everytime i see a hijabitch i restrain myself from punching their fuckface.
is it reasonable to consider than iran can be in peace with israel one day and recognize its legitimacy to be ? is it compatible with shia islam?
