/pol/ I have a discussion for/against affirmative action tommorow. My class leans liberal, and my prof is def liberal, but they are not SJW Nazis yet, so there is hope. What are some clear, effective arguments I can make against it, other than the standard "affirmative action is racist because it discriminates on race"
And yes, I know AA is bad because most niggers are worthless, but saying that = triggerfest and screaming. The goal here is to convert some moderate lefties
You'll never convince them
It's a topic that can and will toto easily be led astray
Say that affirmative action is the ideology of empire. The establishment is making a halfhearted effort toward incorporating the underclass when what People of Colour deserve is full autonomy, independence, and sovereignty in nations where they can form not just part of the middle class, but the entire middle and upper classes, free from their oppressors. Affirmative action only serves to perpetuate racism and white supremacy. Also talk about how affirmative action, by trying to make more middle class people black, is ignoring the greater inequality: the fact that there are socioeconomic classes at all. If the planners of affirmative action were actually interested in equality, they would be liquidating the capitalist class, not throwing a few scraps from their table at the lumpen proletariat. Call anyone who disagrees with you a racist fascist.
Do not argue against the hivemind on its home turf.
You will not win, and regarded as a leper. You'll probably be kicked out of the class.
Just point out the idiocy of wanting to enforce racial/sex quotas which, hilariously enough, are there to overcome the perceived issue, i.e. racism/sexism.
If someone thinks race/sex should be ANY qualifier for entry to a learning institution, rather than merit of work, then they support discrimination.
Doubt you'll be able to convince anyone, though.
>>72291163
By the way, with this you'll actaully be arguing for segregation, racial separatism, and National Socialism, but in a way that appeals to leftists lol
>>72290606
go watch the thomas sowell vids on youtube.
increase the speed in settings for time efficiency
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ImP-gJvas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGYl17DiEwo
i think he talks about affirmative action and welfare in these, but there are more
also look up walter williams
>>72290606
Talk about merit, talk about how people should only go if they are qualified, talk about black dropout rates in college (look it up), talk about useless student debt that will act as chains while the AA students get so bad grades they won't even pass or get a job afterwards.
Talk about how the whole system is against everything in the American Dream, where a person is the forge of their own destiny, by their own skills and their own work.
Talk about how a capitalist society wants THE BEST, not the most DIVERSE, because of quality of work and stuff like that.
>>72291211
It is not hopeless. There are several other redpilled students, and the Asians at the back are pretty quiet, but I know they're pissed by the fact that Jamar and Latisha can get into an Ivy with a 1300SAT while they struggle to be "holistic"
>>72290606
>ask them if there should be more white in the nba because it's more than 90% black
natural selection is racist now?
>>72290606
Just tell them it was created to limit jews and asians in schools (which is true).
Really play at the another shoah angle and your sure to get some support
>>72290606
Something something content of character something something not color of skin
>>72290606
Watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99CYQRtEGMw
>>72290606
IMO, it is part of a triad of issues that keep the black community down.
Affirmative Action: You're too dumb to make it on your own, so we'll lower the bar.
Welfare: You're incapable of taking care of yourself, so we'll take care of you.
The war on drugs: The fact that it is illegal means that dealers get to charge a significant risk premium, and you really don't need to be all that educated to sell drugs.
Basically, we tell them that they're big dumb animals who can't take care of themselves, pay them to be that way, then toss them a lucrative profession that might require a wee bit of violence here and there, and then we're surprised when they act like big, violent dumb animals.
Look at what the incentives placed in front of them are.
>>72293022
>Affirmative Action: You're too dumb to make it on your own, so we'll lower the bar.
I'd really emphasize pushing on this one. Stress that with Affirmative Action, although it may be claimed to be a well-intentioned practice, it's a collectivist practice that ceases to see a student as a student and, instead, reinforces the mentality that race is a factor that makes you less equal in the eyes of an educational institution. That it, perhaps unintentionally, reaffirms racism, implicitly saying that non-majority races need a leg up because they are inherently lesser.
And really hammer home the perception you're against AA because you're for that ideal status of by-merit equality.
If for some bizarre reason they push against that, reaffirm that emphasis that minority is not the same as a lesser person. Indicate that although Jews are a minority group, they hold, with consistency, one of the highest placement rates in high level colleges. That Asians, despite being a minority group smaller than dindus tend to benefit less than dindus from AA policies.
>>72290606
Simplest way to get rid of AA is to make education universal for all ages. It's an easy way to remove social barriers and everyone benefits in the long run, even if it costs a few extra dollars every year on taxes.
>>72294265
This is of course disregarding race as a factor, but if we are going with the student is a student approach then it shouldn't matter.
>>72294020
>>72293022
Write these down and put them in your own words op.
>>72290606
>Use their language against them
Affirmative action is racist because it presupposes that blacks can't perform on the same level as whites. Not only that, but given that affirmative action is a well known, literal, double standard, white workers will naturally wonder if their black coworker has skill that matches theirs, or if they were just the result employer filling a quota. Moreover, it reinforces the attitude among black communities that one does not have to strive for the exceptional, but all they have to be is "good enough."
>>72290606
use that statistic about about blacks vs whites acceptance rates to med school, then ask if they would rather have a white or black doctor.
>>72294941
here.
>>72294020
>>72294941
These points are good.
I'd argue AA is a misguided top down solution that doesn't work and actually makes things worse. We need a bottom up solution. Look up education statistics like black male HS graduation rates to cite ( they're awful, like almost 30% don't graduate) . Then argue that we should focus on improving education in black communities instead of trying to make things look equal even though they're not by using AA. AA does nothing to fix the real problems affecting blacks in America, and probably does more harm than good since it builds resentment and divides people over race.
>>72290606
Racism because it works under the assumption that based on the color of your skin you will not perform well enough so the bar is lowered for you. Take a look at Med School acceptance rates for Blacks, Whites and Asians. The Whites and Asians have a much higher bar to be accepted while Blacks can barely scrape by and get in. It's racism via lowered expectations. It's saying that one group has deemed another group, based on their ethnicity, that they will never get ahead by themselves so a system must be established to push them along.
Conversely, looking at Asians, because of their ethnicity they have to be as close to perfect as possible before they're even considered to be in the same acceptance range as Blacks or other minorities. If affirmative action were to work as intended, there wouldn't be as many people dropping out of the universities because they were unqualified when they got accepted.
The goals of Affirmative Action were noble, but as they say, the path to hell is paved with good intentions. Any system that gives a benefit to one group at the expense of others is a flawed system, especially in a system where it should be a meritocracy, rather than being worried about Political Correctness. Reality doesn't function off of ideals, it functions off of measurable progress.
