How do Christians reconcile their beliefs with pic related? Just as you can judge a painter by his painting isn't looking at creation and society valid? It seems like the most cruel and ruthless get rewarded by life how can we believe Bible stories where the wicked are punished as truth? When have the meek inherited the Earth?
bump I thought this was the Christian 4chan board
>is he able but not willing?
>then he is malevolent
doesn't necessarily follow, God could have morally sufficient reason for permitting evil and suffering to occur.
>It seems like the most cruel and ruthless get rewarded by life
yeah, fallen world
>how can we believe Bible stories where the wicked are punished as truth?
on earth? didn't happen often, oftentimes wicked people got away being dicks and had a pretty swell mortal life as far as we know.
example: barabbas
>When have the meek inherited the Earth?
that's an end-times thing.
>>81160543
The answer is very simple. God has the ability to interfere but chooses not to. Why? Because of free will. True love is only a product of free will and if God forced us to be good all the time we would not have true free will and therefore could not truly love him. Since we have true free will we can truly love Yahweh our creator.
>>81160543
Also keep in mind that sin and evil has already lost. Those who trust Jesus as their Lord and Savior have recieved eternal life. Jesus is already victorious over all sin and evil.
>>81163566
If God does not intervene or protect his followers.. why pray?
>>81163884
I actually wonder this about filipinos. You guys are very religious (at least from the immigrants I see here) but your country is a criminal, poverty ridden shithole.
>>81163884
Prayer is not always for physical protection. It can be for many other things as well. For instance, praying for strength in harsh times is good to do. I do not expect God to protect my weak body throughout this fallen world but I know that when I do die I have recieved eternal life. It's not good to get caught up in the physical world.
>>81163566
>God is omnipotent
>can't create a world with free will and no capacity for evil
Oops
>>81164854
>free-will
>no capacity for evil
that's a logical impossibility
"...the incapacity [of not being able to do the logically impossible] in God is no evidence that he is not omnipotent, since it involves something which is logically impossible to do."
-Nicholas Everitt, Atheist philosopher
>>81165141
>omnipotent
>can't rewrite logic to suit his whims
Oops
>>81164854
Not sure what your point is. In order for there to be true free will you must have a choice between good or evil. I'm sure if God could have created a world where Adam and Eve didn't sin he would have. And considering the Second Law of Thermodynamics proves God's existence there is no other option. And you thought you were being smart right?
>>81162772
Yeah dude, totally reasonable to give that 4 year old Lukemia. Good point bro.
>>81165446
>second law of thermodynamics proves god's existence
Oh man you guys are funny
christianity is nothing more than a liberal code word for 'lets forgive degeneracy". true conservatives choose islam.
>>81162772
>doesn't necessarily follow, God could have morally sufficient reason for permitting evil and suffering to occur.
He is both omnipotent and omniscient there is nothing stopping Him from preventing evil or arranging reality in such a way it simply does not occur.
>fallen world
a fallen world is one thing. but a world that feels like it was abandoned by God with his hand on humanity absent is another
>didn't happen often
the Bible is full of stories where God and Jesus punishes the wicked and rewards the faithful
>that's an end-times thing.
it was a beatitude for living. not revelation material
>>81165141
He's God.. he could make a square circle if he wanted to. Why would he be constrained and chained by logic of a reality he created
>>81165767
I see this argument quite often. I will bring up good evidence to prove God's existence and the response that is recieved is usually something along the lines of "but what about babies with cancer." Your going to have to find something better than that.
>>81163566
>thanks god
>>81166003
Says the guy who probably has very little understanding of physics. Nice job refuting me by the way.
>>81166405
See my other post
>>81166498
guarantee I know more than you lad
Would you like to demonstrate your proof that dS>=0 ==> God exists or do you not know what the burden of proof is either
>>81165341
>re-write logic
i don't believe it was written
>>81165767
>appeal to emotion
i agree that the problem of evil is a big problem on an emotional level, but on an intellectual one it's inert.
If a lack of evil was God's intention he could have had it simply enough by not creating anything.
>>81166345
explain why you think an omnipotent god allows us to suffer needlessly unless he wants us to
>>81166596
its bait to hate feminism, homosexuality and socialism?
>>81160543
>parents don't solve every little problem for their children
>therefore they are malevolent
CAN THE WORLD JUST STOP WITH THE WESTERN CONCEPTIONS OF GOOD AND EVIL
If logic follows laws then God should be able to violate them in the same way he violates physical laws to perform miracles.
>>81160543
Why should we explain anything to a Greecehumping atheist/muslim/Budhist?
>>81167518
Meant for >>81167077
>>81167457
see >>81166405
>oops just fucked this meiosis, well deal with it I guess
I'll throw in my two cents into this the answer to the question is fuck you. That is seriously the answer God cares about you the same way a distant father cares about you. He loves you to death and would probably donate blood to you but he is tired of you living in his house, eating his food, how you cant get a steady job, how your home away from home is a jail cell. If God acted like how Epicurus wanted then he would be Superman not God which for some reason people get the two confused. If God was actually Superman and if you decided to jerk off that day would you feel like you had control over your life if God/Superman came crashing through the roof telling and making you stop? If he kept crashing into everyone's business then we would be automatons no better the computer games sims. That is how we Christians knowingly "cope" with this we accept that evil is the price for free will and that consistent divine interference in mortal affairs would be the opposite of free will.
>>81163884
There are some things we can only get from God if we pray for them beforehand.
God won't give them to us unless we expressly ask for them, and often, more than once.
>>81167050
The amount of entropy in the universe after the Big Bang actively decreased. This is a fact. According to the Second Law we should be in a state of thermodynamic equilibrium right now, we are not, and this is proven through the temperature variations in the background radiation of the universe. The only, and I truly do mean only, explanation for why we are here is that an uncaused cause is behind the creation of the universe. You cannot disprove physics, and especially not one of the most basic physical laws of our universe. Regardless of whether you want to accept it or not, God does in fact exist.
>>81167507
>t. pedo
You hate western morals because you want to diddle kiddies.
>>81167191
This is not a difficult concept to understand. True love is only possible through true free will. In order for there to be true free will one must have a choice between good and evil.
Pagan religions lol
>>81168414
>According to the Second Law we should be in a state of thermodynamic equilibrium right now
Your argument is we should be already at equilibrium because it's 2016.
>>81168414
there is so much we dont know about the universe and the christian god is just a a way to fill in the blanks of our knowledge of existense and universe it is no different from other religions, myths and fairy tails that seek to explain reality in a comfy way. this is true regardless of whether you want to accept it or not.
>>81168818
An omnipotent god could create free will without suffering.
>>81167229
No, it was just a dumb post. Jesus specifically told us to repent of our sins. Islam is a disgusting false religion based on a system of terrorism known as Sharia. You worship a false prophet who was a pedophile rapist and is rotting in hell.
>>81168818
getting brain cancer at the age of 10 is not a choice
>>81160543
forgetting jews and muslims fuccboi
>>81163566
Hhow can free will exist in a system with anomnipotent creator? Wouldn't anything that happens only do so because he made it so?
>>81166405
Not gods fault his parents were actually related.
>>81169096
My argument is that according to he Second Law in any given system entropy can never decrease, unless an intelligent being is manipulating the system to decrease the entropy.
>>81168414
>the amount of entropy in the universe after the Big Bang actively decreased
Says who?
>>81163566
God sounds like a narcissist.
>>81169245
Ok, again this is not difficult to understand. Some human beings choose to use their true free will for evil purposes, and that is why there is suffering. This is not God's fault and suffering is because of other humans' evil choices. God does not want a bunch of robots who have no free will, because then there would be no true love.
Epicur was a pussy who argued that the only purpose in life is to be a hedonist. Total degenerate. Of course God is able to help but not willing. God wants to see you help yourself.
>>81169170
We know about the Second Law of Thermodynamics which, using the knowledge we do know, proves God's existence. It is not a difficult concept.
>>81169726
Planet Earth isn't an isolated system. Your belief that we should of reached heat death by 2016 is also incredibly wrong.
>>81169340
Yes. And what is your point? It is going to take a much better argument than "but what about babies with cancer?" In order to disprove one of the most basic physical laws of our universe.
>>81170733
You haven't demonstrated that entropy decreased after the Big Bang yet
>>81169620
No, God is omnipotent, he can do anything, which means he can choose not to interfere with the free will of human choice.
>>81170367
That's kind of an explanation for suffering people cause themselves but what about things that just happen and are not anyone's fault?
This is stupid anyway. Please try to answer this >>81169620
>>81160543
God is the reason we live in dismay
It is his will that this world's suffering
If we do not believe what you foretell
We can expect afterlife will be hell
You are the one who killed his own son
We are the ones you're blaming it on
Lust was created beginning with him
When we indulge we are guilty of sin
Torture our lives with confusion and lies
Mass contradiction, religious facades
Blame it on God
Blame it on God
Blame it on God, liar
Lord of salvation keep looking away
It is your will that this world goes astray
Take us each day from this place you unworthed
Unfulfilled promise of heaven on earth
You are the one who killed your own son
We are the ones your hatred is on
Children are dying and this you're content
Where is your profit in what you have left
No intervention from angels above
God is the reason that Satan lives on
>>81170733
>we dont know where all this energy came from!
>surely it can only be the Christian™ God© who is responsible for this fantastical miracle!
>>81170367
>God does not want a bunch of robots who have no free will, because then there would be no true love.
But he is God, he could have robots and true love. Or free will that allows evil bit still no evil. You limit your creator with logic.
>>81167518
the laws of logic are neither arbitrarily willed by God nor is He subservient to them; they are grounded in His nature. they are a description of the functioning of God’s mind.
physical/natural laws were willed/created by Him.
>>81169969
Says every human being alive. Think about it. Matter dispersed after the Big Bang, which then formed into planets, stars, solar systems, nebula, and much more. That is a decrease in entropy. So, literally, every human being is proof of the decrease of entropy.
>>81171365
He doesn't have to interfere. He created everything and, since the time of creation, knows everything.
So, how can there be anything but the things he wanted there to be?
>>81170347
I'm about 110% sure he doesn't care about your opinion.
>>81171849
>and he can't change his mind?
>>81170390
animals, niggers, and muslim savages seem to be getting what they want. maybe there is something to be a selfish piece of shit
>>81160543
LMFAO. Problem of evil? If you haven't solved this on your own, you're an idiot.
>>81160543
> Just as you can judge a painter by his painting isn't looking at creation and society valid?
A flawed premise from the the start.
First read a good theology book. Then you post here.
>>81170814
I never said heat death. I said thermodynamic equilibrium immediately after the Big Bang. The objects that we see in the universe today, including Earth, should not be here right now, if he Second Law of Thermodynamics had been followed.
>>81169620
Depends on how you define free will.
>>81171336
The simple fact that you are alive is proof. All objects in the universe that formed after the Big Bang including ones forming right now are proof of a decrease in entropy.
Read a book nigger
>>81172596
>says premise is flawed
>doesn't say why
Great argument Christians. Typical desu. MY BOOK WROTE BY SANDPEOPLE SAYS SO
LALALALALALALALAL I CANT HEAR YOU
>>81160543
They tend to say "g-god works in mysterious ways! H-he's omnipotent even though he's not because he is beyond o-our comprehension!" and other bullshit.
Jews say that god is twice as malevolent as he is benevolent.
Muslims think god is perfectly benevolent when it comes to taking the heads of infidels.
>>81172673
>I said thermodynamic equilibrium
That's called heat death of the universe. There is no reason why the universe should of already reached that point, even if it is current year. The Earth should be here by now because of the attractive force of gravity. Gravity doesn't violate the second law of thermodynamics by reversing entropy, it does the opposite.
>>81172673
I thought the second law only includes closed systems INSIDE the universe and not universe itself, hell, do we even know if there is something else?
>>81169620
It's in fucking Genesis!
>>81172034
There is a difference between knowing all and doing all. Yes, he knows everything and he created us, but that does not mean he makes our choices for us. We make choices through the free will he has given us.
>>81171995
The early universe was very hot and highly ordered. What we have now is higher entropy than that
>>81169340
Why is brain cancer at 10 evil but dying of old age at 95 not?
Or do you think death itself as a concept is evil?
>>81174059
>We make choices through the free will he has given us
No, the only things we can do are the things he already decided we would do. There's no choice involved.
>>81174125
One allows the person to help the society to the fullest of their ability, whereas the other cause a massive waste of time and resources which could be better spent furthering the same society. It is no different than classifying murder as evil and healing as good even with the extrapolation that follows, since it is the same in each scenario.
Because it doesn't affect Christianity. First, it presumes God is like humans and follows some sort of moral code instead of defining the Moral Code. Second, it ignores the central free will present in Christianity.
It's like using Pagan crimes and saying they're Christianity's fault or claiming Brazil is at fault for the nip nukings.
>>81169620
Compatibilism.
>>81169340
Maybe that kid would have growned to become a /pol/ dwelling retard.
God saved him from his misery.
>>81174059
>he knows everything
so he knows every decision you are going to make in your life and dont tell me you can do something that he doesnt know you were going to do, because "he knows everything".
>>81173583
It should be transparently obvious that a painting tells you nothing about the actual character of an artist. Was Goya an infanticidal cannibal because he painted a a picture of Saturn devouring his son?
>>81172949
>roll a snowball down a hill
>it gets bigger
>proof of God
Checkmate atheists
>>81172644
A lot of Christians never read any theology books (hell, some hardly even know the Bible). Are you saying he has to know the religion he criticizes better then the majority of its followers?
>>81172191
what are you trying to prove anyway?
if you're arguing that God CAN do the logically impossible, then God can co-exist with evil and suffering without the need for some theodicy or defense.
problem of evil BTFO once more.
>>81171071
You say it's a horrible argument, but you do nothing to address it.
The only logical explanation is that "God" is actually a demiurge and that's why all the wicked and most assholes get ahead in life.
Or maybe we define "mean" and "wicked" people in the same way a sheep would call a wolf or a coyote "mean" and "wicked".
It's the Rules of Nature, only the ruthless and determinate get something in life.
Look at the United States of America, they became world's first country by cheating natives out of their land and killing people since they began existing.
>>81175865
*criticize
>>81163884
>gibs me dat
>>81169340
abloobloo muh kids with cancer
Why do you think this is relevant?
>>81174983
>help society
Society is an entity that acts against God.
>>81175339
Free will still is in effect; God knows every possible permutation of events and allows for any of them to occur.
>>81175865
He's criticizing Christianity, not Christians.
He cannot do so if he's on the same intellectual level as: >>81166405
>>81173588
Gravitational force is determined by an object's mass, for instance a planet. After the Big Bang there were some elements, particles, and gasses all spreading out. They should never have formed into nebula and then stars and so on. Think of one of the properties of gasses, they spread out, they don't just arbitrarily form into nebula in the middle of a vacuum. Isaac Newton himself, who was a very devout Christian and studied the Bible daily, said that while gravity may hold plants and other objects together, someone had to have set them in place. Gravity alone is not an explanation for why entropy decreased in the universe after the Big Bang.
>>81173706
The universe is a system in and of itself.
>>81166012
>Why would he be constrained and chained by logic of a reality he created
You say this as you attempt to use said logic to argue against the existence of God.
>>81172949
Tell me, which has more entropy.
A 1000 year old universe, full of hot plasma and nothing else.
Or a 14 billion year old universe with planets, stars, galaxies, black holes, dark matter, life and all the other neat things we have novadays.
>>81174983
How exactly does someone dying young waste more resources than someone dying of old age?
Why is "wasting resources" evil and "furthering society" good in the first place?
Surely as an atheist you can recognize that there is no objective reason to make moral statements about either. The godless universe does not care whether you live or die and what happens to your society is entirely irrelevant.
>>81176534
>Free will still is in effect; God knows every possible permutation of events and allows for any of them to occur.
1. When he created the universe, did he know everything you were going to ever do? yes.
2. Can you do something else? no, if you could he would not be all knowing.
3. Does he even have a grand plan?
>>81174068
Definitely not. The early universe did not have life in it like we do now. Entropy has continued to decrease in the universe. Look at nebulae, gas does not like to stay together in a vacuum, it spreads out but it doesn't and forms into stars. Why? It shouldn't do that according to the second law of thermodynamics.
>>81174817
No, there is a difference between knowing all and doing all. He knows what our decisions will be but does not necissarily make them for us.
>>81160543
all evil in the world is just a test of resolve and is nothing compared to the joy of heaven
>>81176597
The fact that you're appealing to Newton for physics centuries after his death is telling. He was a smart guy but we've advanced beyond his understanding. And even from your explanation it shouldn't be hard to see; if really dense gas spreads out, odds are some particles are gonna bump into each other and stick. Let that go on for a few billion years and you have planets and such.
>>81177320
Gravity
>>81177320
How is a life form less entropic than a ball of plasma, in which all particles are identical to each other?
>>81177320
Atheists don't even recognize life as a distinct concept in the first place. To an atheist there is no difference between a drying mud puddle and Isaac Newton, both are localized chemical and physical phenomenon of a fixed duration.
>>81176834
Then the God you speak of isn't the God of Christianity since he clearly doesn't give a fuck about the Ten Commandments.
It's just a creator that gets energy from people praying him and nothing more.
>>81176931
>Surely as an atheist you can recognize that there is no objective reason to make moral statements about either
>implying morals can't exist without Religion
Might as well wear an hijab and running over people in a lorry.
>>81163884
Prayer is to virtue what lifting is to muscles. Get it now?
>>81160543
I will split this up into a response by segments of 2 of his 8 sentences:
>1
God is able, he can destroy all the sinners, which is everyone who walks the face of the earth. God's intention is to save not destroy
>2
I'd hardly call salvation malevolent
>3
Evil comes from sin and sin is a departure from the commandments of God. It entered the world with man's first sin, eating from the tree of life.
>4
The only way, by the stipulations of Epicurus in conjunction with reality, to prevent evil would be to either kill all people or have all the people follow the commandments of God. Which is easier?
>>81176114
>>81178113
5lingue fuck off, gnostics are pure scum
>>81163884
>If God does not intervene or protect his followers
false premise, you will see his protect or lack thereof in the final days man with little faith
>>81171071
You are not actually using any evidence. We're going to die, get over it.
>>81178113
>Then the God you speak of isn't the God of Christianity since he clearly doesn't give a fuck about the Ten Commandments.
>It's just a creator that gets energy from people praying him and nothing more.
I am struggling to figure out what this has to do with my post.
>>81171681
>each day we stray away even more from gods light
>luckily,we like darkness
>>81176923
An early universe without life in it has more entropy and more thermal energy available to do work. Entropy has decreased in the universe over time. The free expansion of gas is a form of increasing entropy. This means that gas should not have formed into nebulae but rather it should have continued to spread out. It did not and that is proof of decreasing entropy.
>>81178113
>implying they can
The godless don't feel confident enough to tell men from women, let alone right from wrong.
>>81167518
He does not violate anything, the laws of that govern the world do not govern God, he created the world and when he creates miracles he changes his creation. The laws you speak of to which God "should violate" are laws based on his divine wisdom, commandments given by God himself. Concerning mercy, judgment and truth God violates no law, he is the upholder of them
>>81179048
You are getting something terribly wrong, please define entropy.
>>81178064
This is a silly straw man
>>81160543
We fell... we wanted to know the difference between good and evil and we got it.
We were warned but wanted the knowledge anyways so here we are. The good part is one day it will be over and there will be no more evil and we will have learned from our experience here.
>>81160543
God gave you the free gift of salvation
Somebody read Isaiah 45:7
>>81179048
You've got it backwards. High entropy means not much energy available to do work
>>8117586
If he is going to talk about it something he should know about what he is talking about. And I know, it is a shame that a lot dont read the bibble/theology books but this is not an excuse to do this.
Also, part of the reason people go to the church is to listen to someone who knows about the bibble A.K.A priest.
>>81177574
Considering Isaac Newton discovered the Law of Gravitation I would think he is still relavent. Expanding gas is a form of increasing entropy and gasses did not continue to expand they formed into nebulae and then eventually stars. Let's say hypothetically that gas particles stuck together and formed stars and planets also formed. That still would not explain the very existence of life. Even then particles sticking together and forming into anything would have been near impossible considering gasses want to expand or in other words increase the amount of entropy in the universe.
>>81165141
God transcends logic.
Atheist philosophers are on the same level as preteen philosophers.
>>81176931
Atheists have deluded themselves into thinking making pragmatic statements and calling them morality is somehow objective.
Just look at how these intellectual deadweights think:
>i want to be objective, because it's logical (this is an emotional reaction and thereby not logical)
>so how about i say that the opinions of the majority must be right
>then how about i say that what most people CLEARLY want (pleasure) thereby must be the ultimate good
>so what makes the more people happy than sad is good, QED im the smartest person ever there is no need for a god
>>81177286
I don't think you understand what compatibilism is.
>>81178113
>Then the God you speak of isn't the God of Christianity since he clearly doesn't give a fuck about the Ten Commandments.
There you go, projecting morality onto a being that transcends it.
God DEFINES morality, He does not follow it or care about it.
Morality cannot exist if there is no objective good and objective evil, you're just eyeballing and saying you're right. Really hypocritical of an empiricist.
>>81179406
What exactly makes you believe this? A book, written by man? I dont get it, how can you not see you have been duped. Its obvious that people just wrote stories to explain phenomenon. I dont blame them, they were people of their time. Why are you stooping to their level when so much information is at your disposal?
>>81160543
Let me say this one more time. The only thing that pic shows, is that the person who made it only knows about God, or doesn't know anything about God.
I firmly believe that I know God, and not about God. Make a thread when you know God. Don't tell me "about" him.
>>81178728
>why aren't you going by my ideology and using evidence? I WANT EVIDENCE FOR REASONS
>>81180487
>I don't think you understand what compatibilism is.
i don't think you understand what burden of proof is.
>>81180537
You are talking to voices in your head you simple man.
>>81160543
Alan Watts is a much better challenge to Christians naive view of God as being an old gentleman that sits on a golden throne and controls the universe.
The Jews and Christians say God is LIKE a father, the Chinese say the Tao is like a mother that nourishes and loves all things. Same thing.
>>81160543
>How do Christians reconcile their beliefs with a reddit meme
By not having autism.
>>81175865
Fuck deleted the last number of your id. Still:If he is going to talk about it something he should know about what he is talking about. And I know, it is a shame that a lot dont read the bibble/theology books but this is not an excuse to do this.
Also, part of the reason people go to the church is to listen to someone who knows about the bibble A.K.A priest.
>>81180211
Yup, my bad. Unavailable to do work.
Isaiah 45:7King James Version (KJV)
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
>>81160543
Epicurus, put the kush down son.
God does not abide by the standards are morale's of humanity.
>>81178728
If your response to the statement "you are going to die" is "get over it", why exactly do you claim to feel moral outrage over a child dying of cancer?
"You are going to die."
"Get over it."
Remember?
I would claim you do not actually feel a sense of moral offense at the idea of children with cancer, I posit that you are mirroring what you perceive to be Christian morality and projecting what you assume to be a Christians moral reaction to the idea of a child dying of cancer. In reality you don't feel anything at all at the prospect of the death of a child, but think you should in order to blend in. So you synthesize a response.
>>81180467
Our understanding of gravity has far surpassed Newton's by this point. I wasn't talking about life, although we can if you'd like. Gases did expand, but as they expanded sometimes they bumped into each other and clumped together. You're right that it's unlikely; a lot of gas didn't do that which is why most of the universe contains vast clouds of low-density gas or empty space. And gases only want to expand when they aren't held together by a force like gravity
>>81180767
>burden of proof is good because i said so
Step it up you deadweight.
>>81170367
Yeah. That 4 year old was behaving like shit so that's why he's got leukemia.
>>81180933
You're right about one thing. I'm a simple man. Unless you're like children, you won't know anything, you sophisticated and complex man.
>>81181568
troll
>>81180516
If it's so obvious to you that it is a fraud why try to convince people otherwise? It's not so I believe it. If you have read and have not believed then what could I possibly say to you to make you believe? A lot of the "information" you speak of are lies straight from Satan tailor made for your arrogance. So be it. If you do not believe, I shall let God convince you. His convincing is a lot worse than the simple convincing of reading the Bible or listening to my wisdom.
>>81181104
Alan Watts is only a challenge for stoners and redditors.
>>81179505
It was a typo. It is supposed to say in the early universe there was less thermal energy available to do work. It in there words interstellar objects should not have formed.
>>81160543
By posting pictures of fedoras
>>81180767
>le burden of proof xDDDD
>>>/reddit/
>>81179765
Not at all.
It is the logical conclusion to godless positivism. I know this because I was a godless positivist and the realization broke my lack of faith.
>>81181883
*In other words
>>81160543
This shit again. These questions are always posited by people who don't bother to read the bible.
You have free will. As does everyone else. To interfere with free will, would be to impose his own. To break his own rules, would make him a tyrant. God is no tyrant.
The meek inherit the Earth, after the end-times.
This lack of knowledge you display, shows that once again, people who don't bother to read the bible, keep trying to scrutinize it. Which makes zero sense, logically.
>>81181771
Jesus, I understand staying true to ones childlike curiosity but many things are beyond a child's abstract and logical scope...
Proverbs 20:24New International Version (NIV)
24
A person’s steps are directed by the Lord.
How then can anyone understand their own way?
>>81181814
Anything i dont like must be trolling
>>81171814
>You limit your creator with logic.
Ah yes, the age old "omnipotence paradox" which has been debunked countless times.
"For He is called omnipotent on account of His doing what He wills, not on account of His suffering what He wills not; for if that should befall Him, He would by no means be omnipotent. Wherefore, He cannot do some things for the very reason that He is omnipotent"
End of discussion.
/thread
>he knows about the future
>he knows I'm going to hell and suffer for eternity
>creates me anyways
>>81181568
whats wrong, i made the exact same argument you made, just in the opposite direction.
>>81160543
>God has human morals
Bitch please.
>>81167769
This is a fantastic metaphor, anon. Good job.
>>81167191
>needlessly
How do you know it's needless? How can you even begin and try to understand the all encompassing Knowledge of God.
For all we know human suffering would prevent the heat death of the universe.
>>81160543
>Just as you can judge a painter by his painting isn't looking at creation and society valid?
Wait, you're judging the creation of the entire fucking universe? As if you can do something better??
>but baaaaad things happen! boohooo!
And you think this universe would be a better place if bad things never happened? If we lived in a world where we were coddled to feel nothing but pleasure?
Our existence is more complete with the capacity to feel pain and suffering, to overcome evil, and to learn from our mistakes. We might be happier in a "perfect" world where pain didn't exist and only happy things happened, but we would be less complete. We would not be humans, we would be something else. Something inferior.
Think of the universe as a piece of art. The greatest piece of art ever made. In fact, all art is really just a microcosm of God's creation. And art isn't just about looking cute and pretty and cuddly. Good art expresses something deeper. It won't shy away from expressing conflict and pain. That doesn't mean it isn't beautiful.
The art that is the universe would be less complete, less meaningful, and less perfect if these aspects didn't exist. It is impossible for something to be perfect if it's not complete.
>>81182214
List them.
>>81181847
That's very telling, you silly bastard
>>81170347
Probably is. But you would be too if you were literally God, that without beginning nor end, source of all creation and Being itself.
Isaiah 46:10King James Version (KJV)
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Sorry, no freewill
>>81160543
bad assumptions!
>>81176931
>Why is "wasting resources" evil and "furthering society" good in the first place?
For the same reason that killing is evil and healing is good. Surely as a christcuckian you must understand this concept. Put another way, kissing and washing the feet of an immigrant is good whereas collecting interest is evil. Get it now? Probably not, being cucked as much as a christcuck, your cuckening must have reached your brain already.
>>81160543
this is like fags asking if god could make a rock that was so big he couldn't lift.
>>81182424
God knows the infinitude of ways that every path in life will take.
It is your choice which paths to take.
>>81180487
>God transcends logic.
In a logic controlled world where everything follows precise rules of cause and effect that's pretty convenient, apparently the only thing that transcends logic is something we can't see, measure nor feel the presence/lack of.
Might as well believe in Thor, Set, Zeus, The Yellow Emperor since those transcend logic too.
Ephesians 1:11New International Version (NIV)
11 In him we were also chosen,[a] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
>>81182214
Complex chemistry, biology, physics, you know the things that resulted in you accessing the internet now?
>>81183300
Is it really my choice if he can see the future and knows exactly where it's going to? Is it my choice to be made the way I was with traits that are inevitably going to lead me exactly where he knows I'm going?
>>81183048
>all gods are created equal
>just like all guns, cars, people, metals, jobs, foods, animals, houses...etc(literally everything)
you idiot fuck just shut your stupid mouth
>>81183048
>different people have different views about who God is and what He's like
>therefore, God doesn't exist
classic
>>81160543
Paul writes some great arguements in NT but God Himself said "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than yours." It's faith. You can't really measure it by human laws or understanding. There's always going to be things you don't understand but you have to have faith that God is in control no matter what. I understand that isn't good enough or logical for some people, that's fine. I decided to stop worrying and trust God regardless of what happens.
>>81160543
The age-old question of divine justice. Google "Theodicy". You'll find a lot of interesting reading.
>>81160543
World ain't perfect, because man left the garden for a world of sin. We chose the world of harsh and cruelty above the perfect world of harmony. Now we live in a fallen world with sickness and disorder, but god has not abandoned us just because things are worse now. We just entered plan B territory.
People suffer, especially people in the Bible that followed God's teachings. However through suffering we learn many things; perseverance, strength of will, and commitment. Bible says at least a few times that honor is given to those that suffer in his name, as they are tested, and did not break and accept Earthly ideals in order to simply not suffer as much. Rather they stuck to their ideals, and their spirit grew stronger as a result.
Life in its foremost is a test; there's a parable about this using three students who were given money by their teacher and told to hold onto it for ten years, and the ones that came back with more money than they were given were the ones that succeeded. You go into life, you suffer, but you show results and grow as well. Your spirit is tested in many ways, but it also strengthen each time. Only after going through some not so easy shit and being tested might you really be called a Christian. Otherwise you might just be a Christian in name only, who worships with his tongue, but does otherwise whenever he's even slightly pushed.
Adversity strengthens the spirit, suffering hones the body.
Don't you silly bastards and contrarians know that it's only in English that Jesus is THE son of God, not A son of God like all the original writings? Don't you try to tell me that you're a biblical literalist if you don't take literally the original version of the Bible
>>81160543
Evil is a concept created by men.
>>81183615
>>81183025
>>81182263
They continue to debate; but ignore all scriptures which plainly offer an answer.
>>81183191
> For the same reason that killing is evil and healing is good.
But I thought atheists didn't need to believe in God in order to be moral?
:3
>>81184044
fake quote
http://undeniably-atheist.blogspot.com/2011/10/fabricated-marcus-aurelius-quote.html
>atheists
>honest
>>81182098
Even if you don't see a moral difference, saying there's no recognizable difference between a living and nonliving object is silly
>>81183850
>>81183878
You guys are the masters of missing the point, how did you become so good?
>>81183618
I know it's extremely difficult for you, but can you at least try to stay in topic? Less ad hominem, too, because it's starting to show the pseudo-intellectual you really are.
>>81183618
Believing in God and studying PROVEN science are not two mutually exclusive things, I can build circuits and see them in action, I can see biological processes under a microscope, I can see physical phenomena. What I can't observe is the cult of "science" phenomena like evolution, the big bang, or any mumbo jumbo against God and his teachings
>>81160543
>God gives humans free will
>Free will means people can do bad things
>>81163566
Will we have the free will in heaven? If yes how will God prevent us from sinning. If no why i would want to get there.
>>81183768
>Is it really my choice if he can see the future and knows exactly where it's going to?
Let me repeat what I just said.
God knows every single potential choice you could ever make and where that path will lead. YOU are the one with FREE WILL who decides WHAT HE DOES.
This is why Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden. God knew there was a chance they would eat the fruit, and warned them not to.
>>81160543
that's literally like saying e.g dark souls devs are evil because they made the game hard
>>81183878
>2348596812957128395472138943629 gods and religions throughout the history of time
>all of them mutually exclusive and claiming they are the real deal
>not a major red flag that they are full of bullshit.
But yeah anon, I'm sure that yours is the right one because the voices on your head told you so like they've told all the other believers of every single religion ever! You hit the jackpot! Yay!
>>81184626
No he does not know my potential. He knows everything. Everything. Period.
He knows exactly where I'm going.
>>81184284
dude its a picture i saved, i didnt make it.
>cant say anything against the argument, better undermine the poster to make him look like an unreliable source.
you know what thats called right?
>>81184454
>literally address your dumb point
>guys your missing the point
ok then what is your point by posting that lame brained picture? It was to say the God of the KJV bible is the same as all the other gods. If not then what is this "elusive" point then?
>>81184626
Fruit gave them knowledge of good and evil. How could they know that they are doing something evil disobeying God if they don't know what good and evil was?
>>81165767
Killing babies and young children is probably the best thing you can do. Since they are without sin they go straight to heaven.
>>81168149
>bothering the omnipotent creator of the universe and his divine plan with the problems of your human life
Isn't it a bit too arrogant?
>>81184938
>make a stupid argument through pictures because you are not intelligent enough to articulate the stupid argument yourself
>your argument gets raped and set on fire by pure logic
>HUR DUR GUYZ WHY YOU NO ADDRESS MUH URGHUMENT??/?
>>81185123
First off, because God told them explicitly not to.
>>81184873
You're not listening. And I'm not repeating it.
>>81185344
The babies and young children will be saved, but who will save you from God's wrath?
>>81183850
>ha, those gods are all silly
>not my god though, mine is real
>>81168414
Your argument would only apply to a universe that has existed eternally without a higher being. Because for all we know, the Second Law would only work at an extremely slow rate relative to the supposed age of the universe had the Big Bang occurred.
Although considering the pseudoscientific nature of the Big Bang, this would be the next argument in line if they try to say that the universe has indeed always been around without a god.
>>81185027
>ok then what is your point by posting that lame brained picture? It was to say the God of the KJV bible is the same as all the other gods. If not then what is this "elusive" point then?
You indeed are missing the point, in my eyes they are the same, made up and once you understand why you dont believe in the other gods you will understand why i dont believe in yours, just like all the other gods, yours hasnt been proven.
>>81185591
>First off, because God told them explicitly not to.
So? They didn't knew good and evil. Listening to orders is good while disobeing them is bad. They didn't understand that shit before they eat the fruit. They were designed to fail and then punished for it.
>>81184058
Don't forget: if you don't suck at least 10 cocks a day, you're evil; so your God decrees. Better get to work, junior!
>>81182506
le burden of proof xDddddD isn't an argument.
You not understanding what compatibilism is isn't an argument, it's a statement.
I've already explained this you deadweight: God knows every possibility and allows for any of them to occur.
>>81183025
Compatibilism, you fucking moron.
>>81183048
Wow what an absolute non-argument.
>>81183191
Speak English please, Rajeet.
>>81183499
>a logic-controlled world
>more appeals to empiricism
This is why no one takes you people seriously.
Google 'faith' please.
>>81183387
>>81183618
Science is a delusion, Anon. Just because you like it and thereby claim it is 'reality' doesn't make it so.
Take your fallacies elsewhere.
>>81184044
This is false.
Living for pleasure is not a 'noble' life. There is no virtue without sacrificing all pride and living for God.
>>81184507
>proven
When will this stop; science does not even attempt to prove anything. Only Reddittypes claim otherwise, because their science education only extends to the 11th grade and they only love it so because it enables their rhetoric.
>>81184873
Yes, because he knows every potential occurrence and allows them all.
>>81185123
The ignorant are only saved due to Christ, before they were given the command and they were to follow it. They had an innate goodness, it just wasn't known as goodness because it was the default.
>>81185192
god must follow muh logic because it makes it convenient for muh rhetoric
>>81165767
God need not be reasonable.
>>81185967
i need proof because it makes me feel good and if you dont provide it i will be upset because i live by a childish ideology
>>81184432
Scientists are unable to agree upon a definition of life in the first place at all, so I think that statement is very naive.
If it were not for the fact that we are organic "living" organisms, prejudicing our responses ,its possible we would not even recognize the concept of "life" in the first place. Like all taxonomic conventions it is more a reflection of convenience and anthropomorphic assumption than of reality.
>>81185805
Wouldn't that be the greatest sacrifice on your part? :^)
>>81184938
fine.
>live a good life
no way to ground 'good' objectively without invoking God
done.
>>81184691
>different people have different views on a subject
>therefore they're all wrong
i was just strawmanning in the post you're replying to, then you actually made the shitty argument i was strawmanning, pretty embarrassing.
>>81185554
damn nigga, the picture wasnt my argument, its just a picture, i didnt even look at it before i posted it.
You can rip it to shreds all you want but dont you dare say that you are using logic to do so.
>>81185344
They are not without sin, though.
>>81165767
>MUH god gave someone a disease meme
God made an autonomous world. She got Leukemia by chance. Get over yourself appeal to emotion fags.
Also permitting people to make objectively evil decisions is called freedom but I wouldn't expect an unamerican country like you to understand what freedom is. God couldn't be called loving if he didn't permit free will. However he does plan to punish them for their evil so that proves his righteousness in addition to his love.
>>81185823
Unlike those gods, mine is merciful and speaks truth. Why are blind that you cannot see it? Those gods are dead and not living, mine is alive as ever. You shall see it yourself, I promise you. Don't look forward to it
>>81186232
I'm pretty sure that's not actually in the Bible....
>>81160543
#1) People believe that we created evil with original sin kinda let it loose in the world. This is especially true among the people who think the focile record is a lie to trick us. They absolutely need Genesis to be the absolute truth because its the way they deal with the bad in the world.
#2 many of us simply except it is beyond our understanding right now. A child doesn't get a toy and to their immature mind they think its the worst thing in the world. How do you know our slights and ills we face in life are somehow against Gods plan or what they even mean in the long run. Remember this life is short but the afterlife is forever.
Even the stoics thought good and evil were just things that happened and the only good or evil was how you allowed it to effect you.
Life is good in the end anon even with the pain.
>>81186286
You're right, I should've been more specific. Saying there's no visible difference between a pile of mud and a human is silly.
>>81186270
>requiring proof is childish
>the entire scientific process is childish
>muh faith.
>>81186713
Will we have free will in heaven?
>>81186270
You don't even believe what's plainly stated in your Bible, yet you have the balls to try and indoctrinate people with half assed logic? Kill yourself already, so you can be in 'heaven' lol fucking retard
>>81165767
Might be hard to understand but I believe it can be. Dont think about it as life cut short think about it as all the life he did have.
And dont forget the next life is longer.
>>81185967
>in my eyes they are the same
and here lies the issue, your eyes are wrong and you judgment has been skewed by Satan himself. Probably because you are too proud to admit responsibility to those greater than yourself.
>yours hasnt been proven
and what shall God do to prove himself to you. Tell me I am interested.
>>81167077
>fallacy fallacy
You still haven't justified the 4 year old's leukemia.
>>81186874
>mine is real because mine is right
>he's right because it's obvious and anyone who disagrees is just dumb
wew lad. Every religious person ever had believed the same thing as you, your odds aren't looking so hot.
>>81160543
God doesn't exist but the Christian framework is very good for setting up a relatively peaceful society.
Simple as that.
>>81186417
>getting murdered by God and going to hell for all eternity is a good sacrifice
sure moron, try it yourself
mfw have no beliefs of a personal god of any kind and am already a better biblical literalist than contrarian /pol/acks
>>81186496
guess i cant use the word "stupid" to describe your argument without invoking god either?
You sure like putting god into everything.
>>81186569
>i didnt even look at it before i posted it
this doesn't surprise me, you think before you type stuff out either. Tell me how my logic isn't sound. I'll be waiting till I'm a skeleton
>>81186139
>They didn't knew good and evil. Listening to orders is good while disobeing them is bad.
They didn't. But they knew how to follow orders, which is why the snake seduced them into eating the fruit, and they didn't do it on their own. They didn't care if it was good or bad, they just listened.
>>81187683
you could, but you'd just be expressing an subjective opinion, rather than something objective and meaningful.
>>81187636
You are ensuring that countless other people are going straight to heaven for the price of yourself being denied it. How is that not a greatest sacrifice?
>>81185823
>I'll worship the god of fertility
>or the god of wisdom
>....
>I need a new shovel
>I'll pray to the god of wood and the god of metalworking to bless me
>or to the god of luck. Maybe I'll just find a shovel
>I'll just pray to the god of wealth for some money and I'll buy one instead.
It is silly you daft cunt. There is one God WHO IS LORD.
>>81187366
>and what shall God do to prove himself to you.
i dont know, shouldnt he know since hes all knowing?
>and here lies the issue, your eyes are wrong and you judgment has been skewed by Satan himself
come on, i knew you are trolling, but atleast try.
>>81187942
So they were punished for just doing the thing they were designed to do?
>>81170347
i like the idea more than god is a simulation developer, he put too many features on it but the simulation is fucked up for its "inhabitants" and could have been nicer to us, just like dwarf fortress
>>81160543
God wants humans to show that they can solve human suffering on their own. It's a test.
You failed, and for this finite crime your punishment is infinite suffering.
>>81187429
The 4-year-old would die and then spend an eternity in heaven. Utlimately, the pain we experience in this life means very little in comparison to what comes after.
>>81188247
>my god is more real because he's more abstract than the rest
Not an argument
>>81186270
I get it now, you like to pick and choose what you believe from the scriptures, amirite? Anything that you don't feel comfortable with is false, even when it comes directly from the Bible in pretty basic terms. You are a fucking disgrace, and you are the reason people are so hostile toward religion. You aren't better or enlightenmented, just another bitter hypocrite who won't accept reality even when it's right in front of your sacrilegious little face
>>81188624
So why won't you just kill all those 4 year olds yourself? They would all go to heaven faster.
>>81188075
oh like you are expessing your opinion about god when i use the word "good"?
Wouldnt it be easier to use something objective and meaningful?
>>81160543
Who gives a toss, God created the universe which gives him free reign to do whatsoever the fuck he wants with it as far as I'm concerned.
>>81187586
>mine is real because mine is right
You say that as if that isn't exactly what would make a "god" real. The very fact that he exists and lives is enough to make him right you fool. Plenty of evidence exists, you are just too dumb to see it. place faith in your false gods and see where you end up
>your odds aren't looking so hot.
lets see one has 100% chance of being real and the rest 0% chance. So many HARD DECISIONS
