>Archaeologists digging at the southern coastal city of Ashkelon announced Sunday the discovery of the first cemetery belonging to the ancient Israelites’ dreaded and shadowy nemeses, the Philistines.
>Ancient Egyptian accounts describe hordes of “Sea Peoples” arriving by ship to the shores of the eastern Mediterranean in the late 13th and early 12th centuries BCE. During the reign of Ramesses III, hordes of seaborne people bore down on the kingdom, were thwarted by the Egyptian armies and settled along the Levantine coast. Among the groups mentioned in the reliefs of Ramesses III’s mortuary temple at Medinet Habu are the “Peleset,” whom scholars associate with the Philistines.
>The scientists have said that the members of the Biblical nation didn’t appear to be “philistines” – finding the people buried alongside jewellery and perfumed oil. They will now conduct further tests that could shed yet more light on the maligned people.
>Those discoveries might be enough to make us rethink today’s use of the word philistine, which tends to refer to uncultured people who don’t know enough about the arts.
>In the Bible, the Philistines are depicted as the ancient Israelites' archenemy, a foreign people who migrated from lands to the west and settled in five main cities in Philistia, in today's southern Israel and the Gaza Strip.
So a cultured, sea faring people from the western Mediterranean that opposed the Jews with ancient descriptions of skin tones ranging from fair to olive and abnormally larger in height than the semitic peoples of the area.
Thoughts?
http://news.sky.com/gallery/ancient-philistines-give-up-their-secrets-10497549
http://www.timesofisrael.com/philistine-cemetery-find-offers-glimpse-of-deaths-and-lives-of-biblical-enemy/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/ancient-philistine-cemetery-in-israel-could-solve-one-of-the-bible-s-biggest-mysteries-a7129601.html
>>80498849
Well yeah I always assume it was a mix of people from Mycenae and Carthage after a volcanic event in 1750BC or so forced them to flee. So people from far south Spain, Northern Tunisia, Southerm Italy, and Greece. So yeah fair to olive skin. Why would it be any different?
>>80499101
There is no record of an eruption that size in the Western Mediterranean. The only eruption large enough to disrupt life on that scale in that period of the bronze age was Thera, which occurred ~1600 BC.
The Sea Peoples seem to have been Sardinians in part, but it seems that they were the later Le Tene/Beaker arrivals, not the original inhabitants.
Whats more, the Sea people invasions occur around 1350 BC and 1185 BC, much too late to have been caused by an eruption from 1600 or earlier.
Considering the established cycles of warfare we have during those time periods in Anatolia between Luwians, Hittites, and Greeks, and the fact that the only Anatolian tribe associated with Sea Peoples (Lukka) are known to have been allied with the Greeks intermittently, it seems more likely that the Sea People attacks were related to those conflicts in Anatolia.
The second 'wave' of attacks in 1185 happens immediately after Herodotus and modern scholars dated the Trojan War as having occurred (~1195). In the Odyssey Nestor says that Menelaus led an expedition to Egypt on his way home from Troy.....
>>80498849
Mycenaean pottery has been found in higher concentrations (compared to neighbouring sites) in Phillistine settlements. It's possible they were Greeks.
>>80500337
Ok 1750BC, 1600 same thing. Yeah just be war but my guess is that people came down from the Pontic Steppe to the Southern Med coast with Iron weapons (Iron age starts around then) and the Bronze age civs are BTFO and flee to eastern med, killing Ugarite, weakening the Egyptians, and the Judeans survive and gloat about it.
>>80498849
The philistines were unusually larger with some being as tall as 9 feet or more. Per usual, the bible's being fulfilled and speculators getting BTFO!
>>80500697
That is unlikely. Half of the tribes are theorized to be Greek & Anatolian (Peleset, Denyen, Ekwesh, Lukka).
The tribes associated with Sardinia, Sicily, and Italy, are also theorized to have been Indo-European except for possibly Etruscans.
The question is how so many groups from two different sides of the Adriatic managed to invade/raid in an apparently coordinated manner.
Consider that these invasions occur periodically for almost 300 years. That is a very long time and indicates expeditions, not a mass migrations. So your theory of a migrations caused by invaders is pretty unlikely to be true.
And once again, we know that western Anatolia was under constant revolt/rebellion against the Hittites as well as invasion by the Greeks. And once again, the Lukka are allied with the Greeks on at least one occasion and, Greeks settled and survived in 'Lukka' territory (Pamphylia) through the bronze age collapse and into the classical era (as Pamphylian Greeks).
The curious thing is that at least one Greek city was destroyed by sea people (Pylos). So the relationships of all the sea peoples to each other, and different Greek cities/tribes to each other, is uncertain.
>>80502980
Because whatever their origin there was a loose confederacy of Med states with bronze weapons involved in trade. Eventually a group with iron weapons gets there and they have to leave so they decide to team up and attack the most prosperous cities in the east. Makes sense to me family.
>>80500697
Another thing: there is no evidence that the Indo-Europeans were a warlike, invading culture. For the most part they appear to co-exist with existing cultures.
I won't say it's 100% confirmed they never wiped out anybody or any specific villages, but by and large their material culture of La Tene/Beaker cultures show continuity of sorts with previous cultures as well as a highly diffusional system between regions (central, western, southern Europe and iberia).
There is limited evidence also that Mycenaean may have destroyed some settlements but in the vast majority of locations there seems to have been continuity even after initial destruction suggesting co-existence (even if they did become a ruling class).
Greeks in the Classical era also didn't display any sort of disdain for pre-Greek cultures that existed into the Classical period nor retroactively for those that disappeared. Instead they seem to have almost revered them for their age. Odd for a destructive assimilating invader.
everyone with a bit of background knowledge knows the ancient people of the middle east and mediterranean weren't modern arabs, but some sort of caucasoid types.
but to suggest they were white germanics is some type of KANGZ tier retarded.
>>80503545
Well my guess is simply that no matter what type of people they are is that some bronze age people decided to abandon their city-state by important med locations near the sea and attack modern day Syria, Israel, and Egypt. Possibly because they were invaded by people with Iron, which is my theory, but you seem to be against that somehow.
>>80503298
>Because whatever their origin there was a loose confederacy of Med states with bronze weapons involved in trade.
All of the groups associated with Sea Peoples are Indo-European, ie: originally from the pontic steppe.
Sea peoples included Greeks, who did not 'decide to leave', obviously.
The Sardinian-associated tribe had helmets of the same type that continued to be seen on Sardinia for centuries after the bronze age collapse. Again, suggests expeditions, not abandoning the island.
Iron wasn't a widespread material until the bronze age collapse.
Whats more, migration theories of the period all advocate for a westward migration from Anatolia.
>>80503961
>but you seem to be against that somehow.
1) Iron isn't widespread until 11th century BC
2) Sea people attacks begin in 13th century BC
3) All of the sea peoples are associated with groups that continued to live in their place of origin after the invasion. As in, they were not run out by invaders, cause they still lived there throughout and after the sea people attacks.
4) All of the suspected Sea Peoples except for a couple are Indo-European (your pontic steppe invaders)
5) Attacks in Syria also came by land, from Anatolia, from people like the Kaska.
>>80504089
But the sea people had iron weapons or no? This is the time of the bronze age collapse though. From white I know Iron starts out in Anatolia around 1200 no?
>>80504346
so what sort of weapons would the sea peoples have had vs mysceneans vs egyptians.
>>80498849
Reading news like this just makes me more sad knowing that these areas, previously White (sort of), are now riddled with ugly, short, culturally primitive arab brown people
>>80504346
We don't know what sort of weapons they used. Sea people attacks start in 1275 BC (I said 1350 before my mistake), and end around 1000 BC.
The biggest attacks/best recorded are 1275 (long time before collapse) and 1200-1150 BC (same time).
According to Wikipedia Iron only became widespread in the Near East in the 11th century BC
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age#Near_East
and in Europe after 1,000 BC.
Your supposed invaders could not, thus, have had iron weapons.
Not to mention your invaders theory is ancient alienz tier at this point since you keep repeating it without applying any of the evidence.
probably they were Pelasgians .just guessing
You didn't already know this? Lol. The Jews were former slaves when Moses lead them out of Egypt, they possessed very little and probably had a heavily watered down culture of their own to rely on. The philistines were a mix of ancient Greeks and Tyrenians for the most part, and we all know Tyre was a great island fortress city, and that Greek culture was so fantastic that even the Romans based much of their own ways off Ancient Greeks. So you have a bunch of poor Hebrew slaves that for all intents and purposes invaded a land who's people had already established themselves there and had rightfully and fairly laid claim to that territory, building great cities - like Jericho - just to have a bunch of Jews march around it in circles and knock it down with their trumpets.
The argument against that is that it has always been the Israelites land, since the pact made between Jacob and Esau and that the phillistines were incredibly sinful and worshipped Baal and were encroaching on the territory of Gods people.
>>80505053
I feel like that's a pretty important piece od the puzzle.
>>80498849
keep in mind you stupid germanic that those ancient werent the same people as the "jews" today
i know that even with this in mind you will still say stupid shit
seriously the worst that happened to this world was that germanics got civilization
they are so fucking stupid and dont make sense at all
askhenazis arent related to ancient jews, they are mostly european
He has the typical "plz don't circumcize me" goyface.
Archenemy confirmed.
>>80504835
They are still there except they are being killed off or relocated
>>80504517
Yes the phillistines had access to iron weapons, but the Jews did not.
It mentions in the bible in The book of Samuel that the phillistines would not sell their weapons to the Jews "lest they have swords and spears", think, they are runaway slaves, they only possess what they have taken.
>>80504835
>Reading news like this just makes me more sad knowing that these areas, previously White
hahahahha
what?
really what the fuck?
how can you think that ?
is this something you germanics think to feel better about yourselves?
>>80498849
More facts, Philistines were setting up olive oil presses in the Middle East coasts they took over and growing olives using complex methods for the time. They were exporting and selling it.
"For the 7th Century, the Philistines were high-tech. Their presses produced 13 to 26 gallons compared to other presses which had a 7 1/2-to-10 1/2-gallon capacity," Gittin said.
>>80505318
Why?
You claim Iron wielding invaders drove out the sea peoples from Sardinia. Well buddy, the only invaders we see in Sardinia are the Nuragics. Of all the sea peoples, the Sherden are most likely to be accurately identified as Nuragic Sardinians.
Guess what? Nuragic culture continued on Sardinia for hundreds of years until they were finally assimilated by Rome.
Your theory disproven.
That is ignoring the fact that the attacks occurred over the source of 300 years. So if invaders came to Sardinia or Sicily and forced the inferior bronze-age people off the islands, why did they sail around for 300 years?
Next, Greeks. Also very likely candidates for Sea Peoples. Definitely not chased out of their homes.
Next, Lukka. Also very likely candidates for Sea Peoples. Definitely not chased out of their homes.
Iron in Europe is not common until AFTER 1,000 BC. 300 years after your supposed invasion forced the sea peoples to start leaving and heading East. Right there, disproves your hypothesis. We don't need the weapons of the sea people to know that no iron invaders arrived in Greek or Sardinia or Sicily.
>>80505448
Ashkenazis are mongoloid khasars educate yourself
>>80506092
Not just Sardinia, all the western med. Maybe not widespread but why do we know the philistines aka carthaginians had Iron weapons if it wasn't widespread?
>stormniggers trying to figure out history
>>80498849
>Those discoveries might be enough to make us rethink
Huh, how about that
>>80506708
You are the enemy of human progress
So this basically means that Israel doesn't actually belong to the blue eye'd retarded white hating ashkenazi cuckold Jews that currently inhabit Israel?
Right? They need to get the fuck out now or we nukey nukey them?
Can we nuke them all? Send all the dual citizen freaks from America and Britain to Israel and blow a hole into the area the size of OP's mothers gaping pussy hole?
JAJAJAJA?
>white ppl getting BTFO by based jews for 3 thousand years now
>>80505218
ancient greeks = albanians lol ... we still use the language . for example . goddess Aphrodite(aferdita ) . AFRO DITE means NEAR- day . because the first people was afraid that the night would continue forever but after the morning star came in the sky they would go like pew . the day is near .
>>80506512
hahahahaha
this fucking stupid germanic
khazars are long gone
>>80506639
Again, where is your evidence of invasion? Where did these invaders go?
Nuragics are on Sardinia since ~2100 BC. Etruscans appear to be native to Italy as well.
And Philistines aren't recorded until after the bronze age collapse, buddy. You know what 'officially' begins after the bronze age collapse? The Iron Age. Remember those dates I gave you for widespread Iron usage? 11th century in the Near East, 10th for Europe? Ya well, Philistine settlements are found starting in that period....
>>80507031
Actually no, it means JewJews don't actually belong in Israel and need to GET THE FUCK OUT.
Stupid slav kike.
>>80498849
>Phillistines(Palestine) confirmed for WHITE.
where do you get that from? I want to believe
>>80500337
>>80502980
>>80503545
>>80504089
>>80504346
>>80505053
>>80506092
>>80507381
Great info.
Thank you.
>>80507403
hahahahah
you mean askhenazis must go
their place is in europe
>>80507031
you are being stupid
what white people?
philistines werent germanic nor pale
>>80506946
what did you do to progress humanity lately, fat nigger?
>>80499101
>>80500337
you don't carry some of society's most expensive things across the sea for fucking fun, and the average pleb refugee doesn't have that kind of stuff at all. they sound like merchants/traders or a diplomatic mission.
>>80507773
>their place is in europe
No their place is in an oven.
>>80500337
>It's possible they were Greeks.
they werent
>>80507161
Albanians are related to Thracians. They probably came to the Balkans area relatively late, in the late Bronze Age.
They probably moved into modern Albania very late, around the 11th century AD.
Modern Albanians are also cultural traitors to the Albanian people as a whole. They converted to Islam and worked for the Turks, and the Turks in exchange helped them exterminate the Albanians who refused to convert.
The persecuted Albanians left to Italy and Greece (Arbereshe and Arvanites) to join their traditional allies and neighbours and escape Islamification and death by the traitors.
The original name for Albanians was also Arvanites. You will notice how Arvanites keep that name (and Arbereshe is derived from it, resulting from dialect sound-shifts), and only Albanians call themselves shittars.
>>80507844
askheanazis come from europe
they are mixed group, germanics, slaivs and other people
they are mostly slavic and germanic
>>80498849
This feels like a WE WUZ KANGZ thread this time with white actors
The Jews cucked glorious Aryan master race meme has been done to death. Give it a rest
>>80498849
Philistine (small p) is a misnomer- a European notion based on the fact that the Peleset were godless, idol worshipping savages. The fact is that so were the rest of the nations. Only Israel worshipped the LORD. This says nothing of who they were (a seafaring people from Crete, who were sophisticated enough to mount an offense against Egypt.)
All that you need to know is that the Twelve Tribes of Israel will be revealed and return to the Promised Land. Promises were made, and untruth is abhorrent to Hashem. See Genesis chapters 12 to 28.
If you need a simple proof (after all, who can deny the following verses to be untrue?), I point you to this prophecy regarding the Arab:
11“Look, you are pregnant and will give birth to a son,” the angel of the LORD continued to say to her. “You will name him Ishmael, because the LORD has heard your cry of misery. 12He’ll be a wild donkey of a man. He’ll be against everyone, and everyone will be against him. He will live in conflict with all of his relatives.
>>80507953
i am an orthodox albanian and i am white as fuck . i hear it a lot you are so white lol
>>80505806
Nigger, your group haven't managed to archive anything.
I have a mixed friend, half dominican and half spanish and he is so fucking ashamed when we see dominicans in the bus or in the underground, you are literally no humans.
>>80507953
what happened to illyrians¿?
>>80507957
Wait I thought Khazaria was modern day Jordan?
I don't really care tho, they belong in an oven, bunch of weirdo mongrels that think they are Gods chosen, they are nothing but filth. Every last one of them and they should all burn alive. So that I can eat them with rice and some BBQ sauce.
Don't you agree my Spanish/nigger friend?
>>80508183
Albanians are probably Illyrian + Thracian
though for some miraculous reason there is STILL no dna tests to prove that Albanians are genetically mostly Illyrian
>>80508040
germanics arent aryan, please dont follow their shit
>>80508182
do you have pale skin and light hair?
if so you are a germanic pig subhuman
tell me about the half dominican guy
which parent is dominican?
>>80508276
Albanians are square headed freaks that should also all be killed.
>>80507953
noone got exterminated retard . they max payed a tax for keeping their faith .
>>80507957
>Ashkenazi
>Germanic
Haitian education, everyone.
>>80508317
>germanics aren't aryan
Now thats just cruel heresy. ;>)
>>80508184
khazars were a turkic group, they were mongoloids
they werent jews but their kingdom/empire were through many religions such as judaism
well rattle my aryan bones. we wuz white people
>>80508419
hahahaha
do you even know what askhenazis means?
its means germanic jews
educate yourself, pigskin
>>80508068
I didn't say Albanians aren't white. I said they are traitors who worked with Turks.
Also their extreme isolation since all their neighbors are Orthodox and hate them means they've been inbreeding for 200 years since the Turks left.
Also the fact they're muslims means that during the Ottoman reign, they did not inter-marry with other Balkan peoples, only with Greeks and maybe Bosniaks.
>>80508183
Illyrians were destroyed by Rome, my friend. They were a pain in everybody's ass for centuries. Rome led multiple campaigns to defeat them and they set up many, many military colonies on the Illyrian coast.
And I say 'destroyed' I don't mean killed, though. I mean they were defeated, then colonized, and with time they simply lost their language. This is why vulgar Latin was so common on the region before the Slavic invasions.
Albanians are almost certainly not Illyrian. Their language is closer to Thracian, Illyrian is not related to Thracian.
>>80498849
This is not new info, we just have concrete evidence now so the people who listen to the kikes can't believe the lies anymore
>Tfw you get weird looks from nromies when you say Iranians used to be white
>>80505218
And expressly, Israel was to be a small, unimposing people so that the LORD will forever be glorified, because every time this people wins a war, no one can honestly say it is because of any other reason than it is G-d's providence, intervention, and might; for who can rightly say it is because the people of Israel are fit, strong warriors?
>>80508419
He's right though, Ashkenazi's are a mongrel race that moved their way through (and got kicked out) pretty much every single European country, why the fuck do you think every kike in America has the surname (berg, stein) etc. Those Ashkenazi fucks all hail from Germany.
You dumb piece of shit.
>>80508512
I know what they were, it doesn't change the fact that we need a method of detection, perhaps we round up every single circumcised person on this Earth and throw them into active Volcano's?
That's an idea, we need to set that shit up.
>>80508317
>do you have pale skin and light hair?
Yes.
>which parent is dominican?
The mother.
>>80504835
We're mixing with Jews very often in America and they will be eligible for Israeli citizenship so support Israel so we can make MENA white again stupid gentile ;)
>>80508700
>Albanians are almost certainly not Illyrian
im pretty sure they dont have many thracians genes neither
they are mostly slavic
>>80508700
>>80508700
>Also the fact they're muslims means that during the Ottoman reign, they did not inter-marry with other Balkan peoples, only with Greeks and maybe Bosniaks.
Damn, I mean Turks and Bosniaks. Obviously Christians and Muslims do not inter-marry.
whites confirmed for losing territory for thousands of years and still not fighting back
>>80508928
We know Dave... We know...
>>80507953
Horseshit. No such thing occurred. Turks established a millet system and let everybody practice their religion, they didn't force anybody to convert, just made it real shitty for non-Muslims economically and socially. Turks got a lot of help during the Balkan conquests from Greeks, Serbs and Bulgar Slavs, including their invasion of Albania, which was helped by 1,000 Serb Janissaries.
>>80508834
lol you are a germanic invader
hahahah
>>80508834
>The mother.
she got bleached
>>80508792
>Those Ashkenazi fucks all hail from Germany.
not from germany
germanic tribes and slavic tribes
>>80508910
your history is false from my point of view
>>80508988
>>80508928
why are you calling them whites?
they werent germanic nor have pale skin
are you trying to we wuz?
>>80509008
No one cares about history, what we care about is the present day situation we all face.
Every single circumcised, sand eating, desert dwelling, Arab cuckold, nigger enabling, kike cock sucking piece of shit needs to be tossed into a Volcano.
That's what needs to happen, every single shitskin that is darker than my sperm must burn!
>>80508859
Stick to your monkey island, you clearly know shit all about Balkans. Not one drop of Slav blood in Albanians.
>>80508581
They're semetics mixed with shit-tier slavs. No drop of germanic blood in that bloodline.
Why the hell am I even addressing you, Haitian?
>>80508792
You need to calm your severely autistic ass down, chaim.
And I'm not even gonna dignify your "Dog born in a barn is a horse" argument with a retort, you hooknosed faggot.
>>80509105
>>80509020
They infiltrate, assimilate, subvert and destroy.
It's what they've always done, it doesn't matter where they come from. What matters is how we deal with them. They have to burn.
>>80509222
Is that a bad thing?
>>80508859
Incorrect.
Albania's most common haplogroup is E-V13, which is paleolithic European and comes from Egypt.
You have to keep in mind that 'invaders' and 'migrants' don't usually introduce a big component of new DNA. For the most part genetics stay the same.
Albanians are most closely related to people from northern Greece and FYROM.
Slavic DNA is a very small component of modern Albanian and Greek genetics, both have E-V13 has their highest represented haplogroup (around 20%, same as I2 and J2)
>>80507806
>Inbred sandnigger calling anyone a nigger
Is this real life?
>it's a Swiss-Moroccan Jew and Dominican thread
I want the Romans to leave.
>>80509318
Go fuck your sister you disgusting Danish cuck.
Or better yet, go get raped by a Swedish bull you fucking cuck. Pathetic nation, you literally got chased the fuck out of my country by a handful of unarmed inbreds.
HAHAHAHAHAHA! Cowardly shits, stay in your shit hole and fuck lego.
Piece of shit, you burn as well!
>>80509008
I didn't say the Turks forced the conversion (although they did, so fuck off). I said that the Albanians converted and the Turks helped them wage war against the non-convert Arvanites.
>>80505218
Moses never existed and Egypt never enslaved kikes en masse.
Certainly not enough to warrant a fucking Exodus.
>>80509222
see slavic invasion my stupid friend
>>80509318
>They're semetics mixed with shit-tier slavs. No drop of germanic blood in that bloodline.
hahahahaha
why germanics are so stupid?
>>80509319
they arent related to ancient jews
semitic jews(arab jews) are more related to ancient jews than askhenazis and sephardic
>>80509367
If Albanians weren't Illyrians, and Albanians weren't really Thracian, then what/who the fuck were they?
>>80509435
hahahahaha
ohhh you are that bootyblasted germanic
you germanics arent aryan
>>80509517
mixed people
you can note many albanians are pale skinned and have light hair while others are tanned and dark hair and eyes and different from those pale skinned albanians
>>80509668
Yeah, I keep wondering about this Aryan thing on /pol/.
I keep thinking these people mean Caucasian when they use the word Aryan.
>>80509814
nigga you thought Albanians were slavs I'm not asking you lmao
I am talking about which ancient peoples they come from, because in that area there were only thracians, illyrians, and greeks
>>80509354
Depends on how you see it. Many nationalist Albanians are proud to be non-Slavs, I myself don't care, I have no opinion of them just know they are not like us and we do not share their cultures or customs.
>>80509508
Explain to me in your barbaric monkey mind how you think a bunch of Slavs migrating to Central Europe makes an entire group of people Slavic, when they have a different language, different customs and different traditions that still stand today, completely alien to Slav civilization. Go ahead.
>>80509668
Even your fellow Romans don't like you.
>>80509814
Are you on a phone?
Or are you a nigger?
>>80498849
RATTLE RATTLE teehee don't touch me down there... I might get a BONER
>>80509449
Why is it when shitkins pretend to be white, they lose their demeanor and facade faster than the Brits lost their empire?
You didn't even fucking try, you kike.
>>80510046
Aryan with regard to ethnic classification is a term coined by the French demographer Arthur de Gobineau. It basically is a synonym for "Indo-European". It fell out of use in the west after WW2 for "some" reason.
>>80503865
WE WUZ PHILISTINES
>>80510085
i knew it is you
>>80510137
mad
>>80510275
>It basically is a synonym for "Indo-European"
it isnt
>>80510079
what is assimilation you stupid pig?
germanics adopted romance culture and language, slavs did the same
that is what uncivilized and savage people do
>>80510058
Pelasgians
>>80510275
Alright but doesn't even a basic wiki lookup tell people who use the word Aryan that its a word ancient Indian people used to call themsleves.
I get that they want to define themselves as white but can't they find a better word than aryan? Isn't caucasian more apt?
>>80503865
most of them were semitic people
>>80509517
When did I say they weren't really Thracian?
'Incorrect' was in reference to your statement that they have mostly slavic genetics.
I2, J2, R1a, R1b, and E-V13 have all been in the Balkans since 30,000 BC, 7,000 BC, ~3,000 BC?, and 16,000 BC.
Slavic admixture is also R1a but is very limited the further south you go.
The original Thracian, Illyrian, and Greek admixture is probably R1a and R1b, but they were a very small percent of the overall Balkan population and mixed with the natives.
That is why you can't really identify 'Thracian' or 'Illyrian' or 'Greek' genetics. In a group of 100 bodies, you might find 3-5 different haplogroups, even though all the bodies are Thracian or Greek.
Linguistically, Albanian is closest to Thracian (at least more than Illyrian). Albanian also lacked a lot of words for things related to coastal life, taking the words from Greek and Latin, suggesting they likely lived inland.
The first mentions of people speaking Albanian are a group called Arbanites at a place called Arbanon on the border of Albania and FYROM. They seem to have moved to Northern Albania within 100 years. There was already a city called Albania since ancient times.
So you have the city Albania, which was Illyrian.
And a group of people called Arbanitai from Arbanon.
The Arbanitai moved to Albanopolis and are now called Albanians. I interrupt this as Thracians from traditionally Thracian lands (FYROM) moving around and by coincidence getting a new name.
Keep in mind Arbanatai -> Arbereshe / Arvanites, the names used by Christian Albanians who escaped Albania and went to Italy and Greece.
>>80509449
>you literally got chased the fuck out of my country by a handful of unarmed inbreds.
lol good one Gov'na. First we raped you for hundreds of years, so much so that we permanently shaped your language with our words and then when you finally thought it was over, our Norman (North Man) brothers who descended from Danish conquerors, came up and finished the job. "Your" royal line is directly descended from those conquerors. Your entire country is nothing but a colony of ours.
>>80510058
They're Illyrians. The other Canadian says that the Albanian language is closely related to Thracian but clearly doesn't know jack all about it. Thracian is a Greek derivative language, Albanian has Latin roots and cognates from ancient Illyrian that were found in no other language at the time. Keep in mind there were several Illyrian tribes, not just one big one.
>>80510556
dont believe him, its all a lie
>>80509008
>they didn't force anybody to convert
modern-day пoмaци would like to disagree
>>80510704
>>80510704
>Thracian is a Greek derivative language,
Incorrect. Thracian appears to be related to Balto-Slavic languages. Albanian also shares many features with Balto-Slavic languages.
The Illyrian cognates are very possibly loan words, Albanian also has many Doric Greek and Latin (Classical & Vulgar) loan words.
>>80510476
I don't know if you're trolling or just that stupid, but I'll just remind you that they didn't assimilate, the very fact being that they speak their own language and have different customs and cultures that are completely different to Slavs to this day. I'm pretty sure I just fucking said that earlier, but I'm not sure your mind processed it.
>>80510556
Caucasian is a whole different thing, some early demographers divided the world into Caucasians, Negroids and Mongoloids. But Caucasians also include Semites and Ethiopians so it's not really a specific term as Indo-European.
>>80498849
fuckin bunch of philistines
>>80498849
>WE WUZ JEWS N SHEEEEIT
>>80510476
I'm asking because your sentence structuring is that of a nigger.
>>80498849
WE WUZ ANCIENT ISRAELITES N SHIET
>>80510883
you need to work on your reading comprehension
slavics migrated and adopted native language and cultures of other people, pig
>>80510904
>Ethiopians
they arent caucasians, they are just mixed
semitic people are caucasian
>>80510978
why you are so mad?
this is an image board, take it easy
>>80510666
>we is kangs and sheeit!
Doesn't matter, some dirty cheesehead came and wrecked the whole succession
>>80510865
Explain to me how a language that went extinct by the 6th century is related to a language whose speakers migrated to the region 150 years later.
>>80498849
I thiught the Phillistines were giants and remnants of the nephilim? Nice try satanic shill
>>80511087
Yeah Slavs adopted everything that made them non-Slavs, including a whole fucking language but they're still Slavs. You're an imbecile.
>>80511281
queen is still a direct descendant
William I ---> Henry I ---> Empress Matilda ---> Henry II ---> King John ---> Henry III ---> Edward I ---> Edward II ---> Edward III ---> Lionel, 1st Duke of Clarence ---> Philippa, 5th Countess of Ulster ---> Roger, 4th Earl of March ---> Anne de Mortimer ---> Richard, 3rd Duke of York ---> Edward IV ---> Elizabeth of York ---> Margaret Tudor ---> James V of Scotland ---> Mary, Queen of Scots ---> James I and VI of England and Scotland ---> Elizabeth of Bohemia ---> Sophia of Hanover ---> George I ---> George II ---> Frederick, Prince of Wales ---> George III ---> Edward, Duke of Kent and Strathearn ---> Queen Victoria ---> Edward VII ---> George V ---> George VI ---> Queen Elizabeth II
>>80511889
some slavs im saying and you can adopt another language and not be related to language by blood, you get it, imbecile
>>80498849
>BCE
I love this meme
>>80510556
Aryan refers to people decending from the aryans who long ago spread all over the continent.
>>80512763
>Aryan refers to people decending from the aryans
>>80510865
That is one theory, yes, but it is a theory that is not strongly supported by the available evidence.
>>80511706
Seriously?
Well for one thing, I will give you the example of Mitanni. A short-lived kingdom in modern Syria/Turkey that replaced the previous Hurrian kingdom.
The Mitanni were active around 1500-1400 BC. The people were Hurrians, but their rulers appear to have been Indo-Aryan. That is right, Indians.
Except that, you know, there is no mention of Iranians or Indians anywhere else in the region at that time.
It is called migration, my friend. Sometimes people end up in weird places.
According to current theories regarding the diffusion of Indo-European languages, Balto-Slavic and Indo-Iranian began to migrate from the Kurgan homeland at approximately the same time. Here, allow me to draw you a map.
As you can see, Thraco-Dacian and Balto-Slavic are not very far apart. And it is a simple matter of 'One group went north, one group went south' during their initial migration away from the Pontic-Steppe.
A similar theory is used to explain Celtic and Italic and the highly localized nature of Italic.
>>80498849
Yeah Goyim
You're all total phillistines
>>80513177
Oops, map.
>>80512943
It is more likely then Albanians being Illyrian. Albanian has no words for sea-faring and coastal life. It borrows them from Latin and Greek.
Albanian cognates with Illyrian are also mostly rural in nature, rather than pronouns, numerals, etc. The Illyrian cognates are of animals and terrain, just like the Greek loan words into Albanian are also about animals and terrain.
>>80504835
How short is short, my dad is above two meters and I'm around 165 cm ?
>>80511706
>>80511889
Slavs are LANGUAGE group not racial! SO many different nations speak it - like your niggers who speaks English but are not anglos. Russians try to unite those nations under their flag and use Slav shit or this. Until 1600 no one ever uses that word. Ever! And Thracian is way older language then Greeks. And is actually very close to Old Bulgarian... SO you are imbecile!
>>80513494
Jew talking about culture, how rich.
>>80513564
sounds like your "dad" isn't your dad.
>>80513715
I'm not that rich
>>80513616
Thracian is almost certainly not older than Greek m8. Where do you get that idea from?
And how can Thracian by older then Greek, but very similar to Old Bulgarian? Slavic languages are younger then Greek....
And once again, Thracian is probably a cousin of Balto-Slavic, making it both younger then Greek and related to Bulgarian (very distantly through time)
>>80508857
mixed Jews will always be considered cannon-fodder (aka Holocaust fuel) by the "pure", ruling-class Jews.
You're worse off than goyim.
>>80513776
Add humor to the package.
>>80513728
My mother is a little short, but 165 is average for a girl, rest of my siblings are pretty tall.
>>80513890
Bulg - Thacian - English
вoдa - вoдa -water
блaтo - бeлтe - swamp
гopa ( плaнинa), - гapa - mountain
and so on....
Thracian's are first Europeans, Dorian's come to Europe from North Africa 1000s yrs after.
Google world oldest gold.
Also http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/hh/hh5000.htm
>>80515813
You need to stop drinking the water over there. Nobody should be this stupid.
>>80516104
What is not clear dude? Suddenly your Greek grand dad become nigger? Wanna dig more?
>>80509008
>turks
>not filthy vermins who want to force anything they can
A M E R I C A N E D U C A T I O N
M
E
R
I
C
A
N
E
D
U
C
A
T
I
O
N
>>80513556
>>80513890
hahaha ...where did you learn this history?
>>80500337
>It's possible they were Greeks.
The Romans viewed them as that, which is the reason Hadrian intentionally re-named the place Palestine-- after his European ancestors and not Semites. The Jews on some level assumed it also, since their Philistines in the Bible are dressed like Hoplites.
>>80518143
they was Pelasgians. pella , pelets , palestine ....The name Pelasgians (/pəˈlæzdʒiənz, -dʒənz, -ɡiənz/; Greek: Πελασγοί, Pelasgoí; singular: Πελασγός, Pelasgós) was used by some ancient writers to refer to populations that were either the ancestors of the Greeks or preceded the Greeks in Greece, "a hold-all term for any ancient, primitive and presumably indigenous ...
>>80518569
Peleset * (albanian - pellazget ) dont know how to spell it but in albanian makes sense
>>80516510
You spout nonsense and give a passage in Herodotus that conveys no actual information.
Albanian shares the most similarities with Thracian.
Thracian shares the most similarities with Balto-Slavic.
Dorians obviously originated in the region of Epirus/Albania.
>>80518112
Why? Are you upset you're not 100% PURE ILLYRIAN?
>>80518569
Even if they did not speak Greek (we don't know what the Philistines spoke) their material culture was Mycenaean. Which makes sense, given the fact that material culture from all of Greece and Crete is the same by the height of the Mycenaean period.
What is more, nobody knows what Pelasgians might have spoken, but it is certainly not related to Thracian or Illyrian.
Even the Greeks believed that the Pelasgians spoke something related to Etruscan.
>>80507022
Naa you are too much of a pussy to even try it but you can bet your skinny arab ass we have some aimed at you.
>yfw Albanians are literally the only people in Europe that don't know what ancient population they come from
>>80519083
lol etruscan
>>80519425
for all my fellow Albanians
>>80519664
>>80498849
>In the Bible, the Philistines are depicted as the ancient Israelites' archenemy,
So
The Jews were the enemies of the WhiteRace since ancient time...
Why do christcucks still whoreship the kike on a stick since he is one of their enemies.
most of Albanians have no idea that we speak this old language
>>80498849
>Phillistines(Palestine) confirmed for WHITE.
>>80513616
>And is actually very close to Old Bulgarian... SO you are imbecile!
WE
>>80520929
>>80507161
A few language similarities /=/ ethnic connection.
As an arvanite i will never believe i have any connection to the """"""""albanians""""""" in mainland albania.
I look nothing like them and i'm 100% white.
>>80507953
Literally this.
haplogroups are really useless pseudoscience and you guys should stop using them.
>>80522327
i am sorry i was wrong in words . i meant . pre greeks = Pelasgians . the year witch is being discussed is before Greeks so
>dominican republic
>literally 10 million monkeys on an island
angry lebs
>>80519425
>>80519664
>>80519756
>>80519965
>>80520149
>>80520735
>>80521656
>Etruscan is a language isolate
>Illyrian is Indo-European
>Somehow Albanian is related to both
>People theorize Etruscan is related to Luwian
>Nobody posits an Illyrian-Etruscan or Illyrian-Luwian connection
>Somehow Albanian is related to both
>Only feature Albanian shares with Etruscan or Illyrian is a few words
>No structural relation
>No pronouns or numeral cognates
>Albanian shares features with Balto-Slavic
>Albanian shares features with Thracian
>Albanian shares features with Balto-Slavic
Apart from some vocabulary, there is no evidence for an Illyrian connection.
Apart from some vocabulary, there is no evidence for an Etruscan connection.
Albanian shares the most features with 1) Balto-Slavic and 2) Thracian. Thracian also shares features with Balto-Slavic
So how do you get the bullshit idea that Albanian is secretly related to Etruscan, Pelasgian, and Illyrian?
Illyrian - unknown relation to other IE languages, poorly attested
Etruscan - almost certainly not IE, poorly understood
Pelasgian - literally not attested anywhere. Just a few words the Greeks preserved
It is like Albanians go out of their way to create a fantasy history for themselves just so they can be special snowflakes not not related to any other people.
>>80522327
>I am white
>I am greek
pick 1 Mehmet
pleb here
is that bronze age mystery thing where some sea people are destroying everything and no one knows what happened
Reminder that Jews were never enslaved in Egypt. They were conquered by Egypt alongside the rest of Levant and this period the later Jews viewed back on as time of Egyptian slavery. One thing Egyptians did was take nobles and royalty's sons as hostage in Egypt so they were raised as Egyptians. After Egyptian rule would have ended getting rid of all the Egyptian influence would have been spiritual search, wandering the desert and shit.
Kikes didn't build the pyramids, their taxes may have contributed though.
>>80520379
>>80522581
lol are you idiot?You speak a creole language with 90% borrowed words, that was still evaluating in 900 AC
>>80523512
Albanians have no connecrtion with ilyrians.
Even more, Illyrian language was centum, not satem like Albanian, and illyrians were Indo-European people
>>80525082
i dont want to open this topics because i am not albanian patriot or something like that,( i had a shit life here with this people ). if it wasent for people like you telling albanians come here in 900 AD and shit .i can literally translate a fucking stone from 8000 years ago in my own language today .
>>80525950
>i can literally translate a fucking stone from 8000 years ago in my own language today .
those are 8 year old arguments.
>>80524825
>Kikes didn't build the pyramids, their taxes
I love finding old historical books and magazines to read, it is astounding how many main stream publishers in pop culture articles and tabloid level illustration, perpetuated the myth that jews did physical labor on the pyramids.
Several months back in another thread an anon shared that he had read the Egyptian "enslavement" of the jews was forcing them to pay tribute (taxes) to the pharaohs.
>muh shekles!
>>80526187
ye i went over a bit . lol
>>80526187
anyway the point is the philistines seem to be Pelasgians
Virgil (Aeneid, VIII, V. 62-63), writes:
"It is said that the first dwellers of our Italy were the Pelasgians " .
The Oera Linda book vindicated again.
>>80519083
Read nigger, read and search by yourself:
Herodotus:
3. Now the Thracian race is the most numerous, except the Indians, in all the world: and if it should come to be ruled over by one man, or to agree together in one, it would be irresistible in fight and the strongest by far of all nations, in my opinion. Since however this is impossible for them and cannot ever come to pass among them, they are in fact weak for that reason. They have many names, belonging to their various tribes in different places; but they all follow customs which are nearly the same in all respects, except the Getai and Trausians and those who dwell above the Crestonians....
“Herodotus 6:53: ‘... in what follows I give the tradition of the Greeks generally. The kings of the Dorians (they say)-counting up to Perseus, son of Danae, ... If we follow the line of Danae, daughter of Acrisius, and trace her progenitors, we shall find that the chiefs of the Dorians are really genuine Egyptians ...“‘
"Balto-Slavic" - no comment, this is bulshit.
>>80525950
>if it wasent for people like you telling albanians come here in 900 AD and shit
All evidence points to the arrival of Albanians to modern Albania as a very late event.
Look at the first historical mention of Albanians - it is in the Albanian/Macedonian border at a place called Arbanon. The Albanians were called Arbanitai until almost 200 years later when they settled in the city of Albanopolis and then people began calling them Albanians.
Look at the vocabulary of Albanian - words for sea faring and mountains are all taken from Latin, Greek, and Illyrian. It suggests they came from a place inland and without many mountains. Places in Bulgaria and Macedonia could meet that description.... and I remind you that Arbanon is near Macedonia.
>>80528372
Virgil doesn't know shit about history, and Virgil and Livy were hired to write historical propaganda by Augustus. The Romans did not even record their own history until the late 4th century BC
>>80529678
haha . you seem to be a joke . albanians have word ANIA . for ship . where is this word from please tell me
>>80529499
>>80529499
That passage by Herodotus relays nothing of value to us except to say that not all Thracians had the same customs and that there were a lot of them.
Where does it suggest that they are the 'first' Europeans?
Also rofl @ providing mythologized accounts of tribal history as fact.
You are present weaker arguments then the Albanian.
>>80529928
Go find my the etymologies for words like wave, sail, ore, row, deck, hull, foam, tide and winch.
>>80530064
lol i am done with you . if you want go find them yourself
>>80530247
>lol i am done with you . if you want go find them yourself
OK.
>For example, the word for 'fish' is borrowed from Latin, but not the word for 'gills', which is native. Indigenous are also the words for 'ship', 'raft' and 'navigation', 'sea shelves' and a few names of fish kinds, but not the words for 'sail', 'row', 'harbor', objects pertaining navigation itself and a large part of sea fauna. This rather shows that Proto-Albanians were pushed away from coastal areas in early times (probably after the Latin conquest of the region) thus losing large parts (or the majority) of sea environment lexicon. A similar phenomenon could be observed with agricultural terms. While the words for 'arable land', 'corn', 'wheat', 'cereals', 'vineyard', 'yoke', 'harvesting', cattle breeding etc. are native, the words for 'ploughing', 'farm' and 'farmer', agricultural practices, and some harvesting tools are foreign.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_language#Historical_presence_and_location
So Albanian again, half of Albanian is borrowed. Only it isn't just for seafaring, it is also for farming.
So what is it - did Albanians lose those words because they are cucks, or did they never have them?
>>80529968
Well... lets see...
"..Hoddinott’s conclusion, which identifies the earliest sure manifestation of the Thracians in the Bronze Age Carpatian culture of Otomani-Wietenberg (in Transylvania, Hungary, Eastern Slovakia). According to the most recent research, this culture represents a continuation of the Baden and Vuиedol cultures, and through the latter, is connected to the steppe cultures (see above and cp. for example DP s.v. Vuиedol). In the light of the preceding remarks, then, on one hand we could conclude that also Thracians underwent the same Turkic influences as most other Southern Slavic languages; on the other – as both Baden and Vuиedol in the framework of the PCT can be read as Slavophone cultures, we could advance the hypothesis that the Thacianas were a Slavic group, which would have been subject to stronger Turkic influences than the other Slavic languages, and eventually extinguished...."
Also - Herodotus "The father of History" is "mythologized account"? Told you - READ MORE!
>>80530560
what is your native language ?
>>80531013
I have said all thread that Thracian is related to Slavic languages. But Thracian is not itself Slavic. It is probably part of the same branch, however.
Thracian was extinct by the 6th century AD. Before the Slavic migration southwards.
Thracian was not subject to any Turkic influence. When would those influences have occurred? Turkic didn't enter Europe until after 1,000 AD. How does a language that was dead for 500 years get Turkic influence?
No evidence exists to connect Thracians to Otomani or Baden cultures. Or slavs to those cultures.
For one thing, linguistic evidence suggests it is impossible for Baden to be related to later Slavic cultures. Baden pre-dates the Slavic migration from the IE homeland by almost a millennium.
How can Thracians be related to Slavs AND be the first Europeans? We know for a fact that Celtic, Italic, and Greek are older languages.
>>80531013
>Also - Herodotus "The father of History" is "mythologized account"? Told you - READ MORE!
Herodotus related stories as he was told them. He was clear about this, and made no distinction of fact vs. myth. In the passage about Dorians you posted, he is relating a mythologized account of the origins of the 3 Greek tribes. Read more.
>>80531380
>>80531380
Here, have a map.
I have marked the locations of Albanopolis + first mention of Albanians there as well as Arbanon + first mention of Albanians there.
Also note that Arvanites call themselves Arberor.... and in Italy they call themselves Arbereshe...
Only Albanians call themselves Shittars.
Gheg - rejects foreign loan words, tries to Albanize all words
Tosk - keeps Greek/Latin loan words, no reject Albanian association
Once again, I say that 'Albanians' are traitors who converted to Islam. Arvanites speak a historical dialect that demonstrates it's previous contacts with other cultures and retain their Christian religious roots.
Albanians are literally Turkish sympathizers. Traitors to their history and their people.
>>80533016
>>80528372
Philistines are not pelasgians and you have no relationship with pelasgians, who were most likely I2 proto-European from Cucuteni Culture.Albanians are the newcomers in Balkans with the E1b north African and J2 Anatolian sheepherding genetic marker.
>>80533050
Here are the latest sources about Albanian's origin.From linguistic facts, to archaeological, anthropological, genetical and written.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?217716-The-truth-about-Albanian-origin-Latest-sources-revisited-Vol-II
>>80522581
Lol you sound like a Macedonian slav,
WE
>>80533302
>>80533508
No sense arguing from a genetic point of view. Greeks, Albanians, Slavs all have the same haplogroups in their populations just to different extents.
>>80533508
I will read it, but I disagree with the very first paragraph already. Albanians (I use the term broadly, to refer to Arvanites + Albanians) must be native to the Balkans (native in the same sense as Greeks, Illyrians, Thracians) because their language has loanwords that have to come before 300 BC.
>>80534101
>Greeks, Albanians, Slavs
Greeks and Albanians true, but Yugoslavs no.
>language has loanwords that have to come before 300 BC.
read the 2nd page at linguistics and how they got there.
>>80534242
Slavs do have pre-slavic genetics. I2 and J2 primarily.
Pretty sure that I2 is the most represented haplogroup in Bulgaria and Serbia?
>read the 2nd page at linguistics and how they got there.
Hmm ok.
>>80534480
linguistics are also debated in the first page too, scroll down.Its a lot of information.
>Pretty sure that I2 is the most represented haplogroup in Bulgaria and Serbia?
Indeed.I2 followed by R1a, while in Albania its E followed by J2, and in Greece J2 followed by E
>>80534627
Exactly. So the same haplogroups exist in the populations of Albania, FYROM, Greece, Bulgaria, and Serbia.
I use Greece as the starting point usually. So the closest relatives to Greeks genetically typically come up as 1) Albanians 2) FYROM and 3) Bulgaria.
Which is why I say haplogroups are shitty indicators. I2 predates slavs significantly. And E-V13 & J2 predates Albanians and Greeks.
So you can't really identify the genetic 'ancestors' or 'origin' of Albanians (ie: whether they are thracian or not).
but anyways I will look/work through your link.
>>80524825
I would argue that Judaism did not exist when Egyptians ruled the Levant; that Judaism did not exist in any forum until Persians brought Zoroastrianism to native Canaanite pagans; and Jews never wrote about "Slavery in Egypt" (or about proxy-ruling Egypt itself, or about conquering the Levant and once possessing a mighty region-spanning Empire) until the Alexander and the Greeks showed up and served as an inspiration for some Jewish propagandist.
>>80535284
Judaism 'started' when the Jews were exposed to monotheism in Armana, Egypt, under Ahkentaten.
Semites would have been in Egypt at the time, living there or conducting trade, some employed by the state as well.
They took the concept of worshipping a single deity with them back to Canaan when Ahkentaten died and applied to to their god of war.
redpill me on the I Haplogroup
Who are they? From where did they come?
And are nordics related to southslavs (croats and muslim croats / serbs aka bosniaks)?
>>80509494
Woah dude you better tell the Vatican that, I think they'd like to know your new info
>>80537079
They came probably 30,000 years ago.
They survived the last ice age.
Probably represent a population of european hunter gatherers.
'related' is not really applicable when discussing haplogroups particularly considering the duration of time we are discussing.
lol we have been the Jews all along and the israel right now are simply "Jewish"
>>80533566
you are right . i will stop talking this .anyway this retards should know that i dont give a fuck about wikipedia articles and meme history if i can understand in my own native language the meaning of word zeus , ra , aphrodite etc ..
>>80534242
>>80534627
m8 this forum you linked me to is pretty retarded ive been looking around... also doesnt even have anything like an 'about us' or introduction thread?
where do you find these 1999 tier websites?
>>80505180
>probably they were Pelasgians .just guessing
My money would be on that, too. A few years ago they found sherds with Philistine script, which was basically Linear A.
Also the head dress which Philistines wear in Egyptian depictions look a lot like the human-head-with-crested-helmet symbol from the Phaistos Disc found in Crete.
I think it's very likely that Philistines = Pelasgians, i.e. pre-Proto-Indoeuropeans.
>>80538406
Why would you conflate Pelasgians with Minoans?
The Greeks never called the Minoans Pelasgians. They were Cretans or Minoans.
Why would Philistines be Pelasgian because of a find of Linear A? Linear A I not found in any significant quantity in mainland Greece.
And do you have images or links for this Linear A shard and helmet comparison? I would like to see them.
>>80538768
>Why would you conflate Pelasgians with Minoans?
>The Greeks never called the Minoans Pelasgians. They were Cretans or Minoans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgians#/media/File:Pelasgians.jpg
>Why would Philistines be Pelasgian because of a find of Linear A? Linear A I not found in any significant quantity in mainland Greece.
>And do you have images or links for this Linear A shard and helmet comparison? I would like to see them.
Disc:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/%CE%94%CE%AF%CF%83%CE%BA%CE%BF%CF%82_%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82_%CE%A6%CE%B1%CE%B9%CF%83%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%8D_%CF%80%CE%BB%CE%B5%CF%85%CF%81%CE%AC_%CE%91_6380.JPG
In Battle vs. Ramses III.:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philister#/media/File:Pulasti_(Philistine)_and_Tsakkaras_(painting).png
>>80538406
yes i got more confident as i read more the articles .. and i want to be clear i am not saying that albanians are Pelasgians like a retard . just saying that albanian language is old as fuck .i have found out myself not from school
>>80498849
the Philistines were Greeks from the south who emigrated there for some reason
I think it's because of them and not because of Ptolemy that Greeks and Jews have a love/hate relationship going on even today
>>80538768
Don't remember my original source, but here's a depiction:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/13/science/13phil.html
>>80539755
but yes maybe there were . i dont know . :)
>>80539425
A map that says 'in Homer' is not a good source, I am sorry.
>The Illiad of Homer
>Translated by Richmond Lattimore
>Appendix
>Pelasgian
>A term of disputed and apparently variable significance. Applied to Argos (2), the home of Achilleus, 2.681; but the Pelasgians of Larissa are allied with the Trojans, 2.840-43.
I have previously looked for all mentions of Minoans and Crete. Pelasgians are not mentioned in any of those passages I assure you.
>>80539425
>Phaistos Disc
Is probably Luwian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaistos_Disc_decipherment_claims#Luwian
>>80539425
>http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/13/science/13phil.html
Well, your link got the dates completely wrong for Linear A... it predates 1650 by about 700 years.
I am looking at the inscription now + the complete catalogue of Linear A symbols.
Pic related is the inscription.
>>80542806
Pic related. Symbols isolated + paired with Linear A counter part.
Assuming all the symbols for the first shard are drawn in the same orientation, this is the only symbol with possible counter parts.
The 'A' 'U' 'R' and 'M'-like symbols either have no similar Linear A signs ('A', 'R', 'M') or are upside down... in which case 'U' does exist in Linear A but the funny 'T' sign does not.
Will make an image for Linear B
>>80544030
>>80544030
Until I finish the Linear B, have some real samples of Linear A to compare.
Notice in this, the 'T' like symbol is present, though the others are not.
>>80542806
>A map that says 'in Homer' is not a good source, I am sorry.
Well, let's work on this together. I'm not out to prove that you are wrong and I am right about my hunch (maybe I'm not).
"There is a land called Crete, in the midst of the wine-dark sea, a fair, rich land, begirt with water, and therein are many men, past counting, and ninety cities. They have not all the same speech, but their tongues are mixed. There dwell Achaeans, there great-hearted native Cretans, there Cydonians, and Dorians of waving plumes, and goodly Pelasgians."
Homer, Odyssey, 19.175
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Hom.+Od.+19.174&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0136
So according to Homer there were Pelasgians, as well as other "diverse" groups, to be found on Crete.
>>80542806
>>80544030
>>80544432
So I am leaning more towards this being Linear B or perhaps Linear C rather than Linear A.
I note that there is an R-like symbol in Linear A but it looks nothing at all like the one in the inscription.
Linear C apparently has something resembling the 'M' type symbol.
Anyways, calling this Linear A or claiming that it proves Philistines were non-Greek is a long, long stretch.
>>80545264
All, OK then. Interesting they are mentioned in one epic but not the other. But that is the nature of oral tradition, I suppose.
I still have to disagree that the inscription is Linear A however, for the reasons posted above.
Here are the full lists of Linear A and Linear B symbols if you're interested...
>B
http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U10000.pdf
http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U10080.pdf
http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U10100.pdf
>A
http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U10600.pdf
As for the headdress, the depictions are similar but the unknown provenience of the Phaistos disk makes it difficult to draw any conclusion. Most importantly there is no symbol like that in the regular Linear A and Linear B corpus.
Does this mean white countries need to accept more Muslims?
>>80542806
>>Phaistos Disc
>Is probably Luwian.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaistos_Disc_decipherment_claims#Luwian
A lot of information to process here.
I looked at the Luwian translation attempt. Though impressive, the resulting text leaves me a bit mystified.
Achterber et al.'s translation can be found here:
http://luwianstudies.org/the-luwians/phaistos-disc/
Do you find it convincing?
I also looked at the (Luwian) Anatolian hieroglyphs and I can't find anything that resembles our helmeted head anywhere:
http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U14400.pdf
>>80498849
Sounds really interesting.
>1 post by this ID
SAGE
>>80547887
>I looked at the Luwian translation attempt. Though impressive, the resulting text leaves me a bit mystified.
>Do you find it convincing?
I think it is convincing as a translation but without further samples it is impossible to confirm. My biggest gripe is that I don't know of any contact between Crete and Assuwa, and that we have a relatively poor understanding of the cultures present on Crete.
For example, different burial rituals in the South and North, when did Greek-speakers began to settle on the island, whether the island was ethno-linguistically homogeneous before that, etc.
As for our helmeted symbol, I think it is worth considering that neither Linear A nor Linear B appear to have 'life-like' figures in profile.
>>80550956
>As for our helmeted symbol, I think it is worth considering that neither Linear A nor Linear B appear to have 'life-like' figures in profile.
Thread was sliding had to post quick, sorry.
So what I was thinking was that the types of figures represented, or rather the style they're presented in, is radically different from the Phaistos disk. However, Luwian Heiroglyphics are very similar.
I will give a comparison image. Hopefully the thread survives until then.
>>80545264
>>80547887
I will post a new thread in /his/ if this dies, in case you want to continue.
Here we go.
So stylistically Phaistos is, in my opinion, closer to Luwian Hieroglyphics than it is to the Linear script.
That in and of itself is not very important, of course, but since the Phaistos disk is contemporary with Linear B it is doubtful they are related.
It seems to post-date Linear A but the Phaistos Disk is the only artifact of its type, whereas Linear B is present in mostly all the sites associated with Linear A.
Thus, I think a native Cretan origin for the Phaistos disk is unlikely.
I still don't have an explanation for the Egyptian relief and the helmet figure, though. Could be one in the same, or might not be.
One thing worth noting is that Mesera and Phaistos are home to (or near to) unique burials on Crete that resemble Tholos tombs (but predate them in Greece). So it is possible that it was not a LinearA-Minoan population at all...
WE
