What is /pol/'s opinion on meditation?
I know that the point is relaxation of body and mind so you supposedly enter a state of trance. A hypnotist can guide you through this process, might give some good suggestions when your mind is open.
Is this beneficial in any way or just bluepilled?
I'd say its extremely beneficial to meditate purely because when done correctly your mind can enter a state of absolute relaxation. Many people who are uptight or constantly worried or stressed can't even imagine what its like to not think of nothing at all. To think of nothing at all is like a holiday for the mind. Also through meditation your body and mind can be pushed further than without out. An example is tummo meditation which builds inhuman levels of cold resistance if done in a routine like basis. Prior to the stage of thinking nothing at all you can also quite easily tap into the creative though stage where innovative ideas come forth like an eureka moment. Overall a lot of people dismiss it as just wishywashy spiritualist shit but it does have many positive effects.
>>79082878
Without it*
>>79082878
Thanks mane. I also hear that it improves focus. That's true, right? Asking because I've been pretty stressed out lately and I still have exams due. Any tips I need to know?
>>79082878
I wouldn't be able to do it. I would be worried that when my mind is empty I might be dead. I can't even sleep while I'm drunk. I always stay up all night until I start to sober up
>>79082239
There's no such things as blue or red pill in meditation. It's a common practice that helps you focusing on yourself and your surrounding. Religious practices could help you find a way to go deeper and deeper into it through exercises and respiratory flow but it all starts by yourself. Just by hiking, walking into a wood, dancing, weight lifting or other repetitive tasks you start "meditating". Go for it.
>>79084140
I don't think it's the same. You don't actually fall asleep while drunk, you just pass out. This is neither.
>>79084702
>Just by hiking, walking into a wood, dancing, weight lifting or other repetitive tasks
Some of them more than others, yes they make your mind relax. But I'm talking about being completely devoted to yourself. Not your surroundings or your gains
>>79082239
Would have killed myself years ago had I not gotten into meditation. Saved me from my stupid impulsive fucking self.
>>79082239
Self Hypnosis. You think it helps so it does.
Placebo effect. Nothing more.
>>79085843
How did it change your aproach to life?
>>79085919
>Self Hypnosis
Nigga you need another person for suggestions.
>>79086345
>How did it change your aproach to life?
Helped me calm the fuck down and stop getting overwhelmed by every little thing. Always do it before bed typically.
I've read a lot about it and heard nothing but good things. Hell, I'm sure there's a reason it's been such a big thing throughout history.
I tried it myself and it didn't really seem to do much though. I must be doing something wrong. All I ever really feel is soreness in my chest from the excessive breathing.
>>79086345
>Nigga you need another person for suggestions.
What do you do when you meditate?
>>79086479
>Hell, I'm sure there's a reason it's been such a big thing throughout history.
Clout.
Meditation is stupid.
A human being is supposed to be stressed and paranoid, it keeps you alive.
>>79086725
>the jew wants you to be stressed and paranoid so you can be easier to manipulate
>>79086479
You don't need to breath excessively, common mistake, made it too at first.
>>79085919
Too lazy to look shit up but there's evidence online of brain changes.
>>79085919
Self hypnosis isn't the placebo effect, it's literally a trance that you put yourself in that you can measure.
>>79086434
Good to hear!
How do you do it, tho? Do you need ambient sounds? Complete silence bothers me.
>>79086479
>excessive breathing
It should be slow and deep.
>>79086571
Nothing. I try not to think but usually thoughts start distracting me untill I give up and fall asleep.
>>79083611
I did an 8 week mindfulness meditation module at uni. It's pretty simple,
>sit in a comfortable position with your back straight and unsupported.
>focus on your breath and only your breath
>your mind WILL wander, don't beat yourself up about it, just calmly redirect yourself back to your breathing and congratulate yourself for doing so
It's not about blocking out emotions or thoughts it's about 'sitting with them' i.e. you recognise that they are there but they have no control over you because you are able to redirect yourself back to focusing on breathing. It's pretty tricky to sit and do essentially nothing for an extended period of time at first but with enough practice it becomes second nature. I'd reccomend 20 mins in the morning and 20 mins at night. Think of it like an exercise, the more you 'work out' your brain, the easier it becomes to work out. Really helped my concentration and focus too
I go in the woods, lay down in a patch of ferns, slow my breathing gradually and get high as fuck while I chill in the sun, take in the nature and the sky. It breaks the stressful state that people are in for days at a time.
It's kind of a religious thing for me. It feels way more sacred and holy than any church service I've been in with or without being high.
>>79087367
Silence mainly but often running a fan helps. You definitely can do it to sounds though.
>>79082239
I like my tour with vipassana and have been a different human being since learning the technique.
I recommend it to anyone having a hard time in life. Its like a emotional detox
>>79086916
>Too lazy to look shit up but there's evidence online of brain changes.
"brain changes"
Why wouldn't there be? You're sitting there doing nothing. If you're really good at it, you can probably make a unique reading show up on the screen.
But what does that mean? What does that matter? All it shows is that you are very relaxed.
>>79086725
Now there's a flag I can trust!
>>79087738
>All it shows is that you are very relaxed.
Good anon, because that's literally the goal.
>>79087275
You can't measure your own mind.
>>79085580
>being completely devoted to yourself
Don't underestimate climbing/hiking. Give based Julius Evola's "Meditation on the peaks" a try.
Would also suggest to try any yoga-related meditation or any tibetan chant/mantra, plenty of useful guides in the interwebs. You don't have to worship any deity in following these oriental disciplines if that worries you, ustaša nigger
>>79087813
You can relax in plenty of ways other than by looking like a weeaboo.
>>79086725
At work I love to charge around being busy and tcb.
At home I chill and play banjo or read.
Meditation can be found in both these things, its not all just sitting back and saying Ohm.
Pretty sure meditation invites you to be fucked with by demons (same with its more degenerate cousin yoga).
>>79087958
Yup. Most of those mantras are the names of demons.
>>79087817
It shows up in brainscans.
>>79087897
Man if you weren't a shut in you'd probably learn that meditation is a common thing that Americans do. No weebery needed, just deep breathing and relaxation techniques.
>>79082239
I do TM twice a day. I noticed a positive difference, so I continue with the practice.
>>79087401
Can I lie on back instead? Does your breathing require attention during the whole process or it becomes automatic once your thoughts stop distracting you?
>>79087575
>and get high as fuck
I hope you mean metaphorically, otherwise DUDE WEED LMAO
>>79088035
>It shows up in brainscans.
Everything does. What's your point?
>Man if you weren't a shut in you'd probably learn that meditation is a common thing that Americans do. No weebery needed, just deep breathing and relaxation techniques.
Ad hominem is not an argument. You don't sound like you're at peace.
>>79087738
>But what does that mean? What does that matter?
That there's clearly something happening.
>>79088223
I do it with or without, but yes sometimes I smoke weed in the woods to relax and it works.
>>79088252
As in it's a real difference, it's not a placebo effect where you think something is happening, you're changing your brain wave frequency to theta.
If people give me shit I give shit right back, not ad hom. You just genuinely don't understand that meditation is a really common thing that people do without any of the eastern medicine and symbolism attached to it.
>>79086725
Said the one who keeps banging his head moaning in front of a wall...
>>79088206
It's better if you sit in the lotus position but you can do it literally any way you want, that's the beauty of it. You will have incredible moments where your mind is totally clear and these will increase in length and frequency as you progress. The breathing is like an anchor, you don't have to focus on it too hard, just be aware of it (my wording was wrong in the last post). The aim of the game is to be completely present in the moment, it's not about relaxation so you should go into it thinking 'I'm doing this to be present in the moment'.
>>79088794
>The aim of the game is to be completely present in the moment
In other words, your focus is on ''here and now''?
>>79084140
>I wouldn't be able to do it. I would be worried that when my mind is empty I might be dead.
This is hard as fuck to explain, but I'm going to give it a shot.
Stopping thinking doesn't mean you stop feeling you are there.
I've practiced mindfulness meditation on and off for about 3 years, and the feeling you get and "not being there" are complete, absolute opposites, if anything you are more conscious of the fact that you are actually there.
Here comes the mumbo jumbo but seriously, it's the only way I think I can explain it.
Imagine you are in a machine, the machine has levers, pulls, buttons, you name it, each one of them has a red light on it, when the light is turned on, you have to activate whatever is signaled.
You are always in this machine, always, and you must do all of that, when you don't you feel disappointed, or sad, or frustrated, sometimes you forget to press a button or pull a lever and it pisses you off.
In reality, you are the one turning on the lights, your mind is handling the controls, you are thinking about today, you are also thinking about that thing you should do, that thing you should stop doing, worries, anxiety, fears, desires etc.
And there is no order in this! No order whatsoever, it's like being trapped in a storm of yourself, the storm is fierce here and there, calm at times, but the storm doesn't stop.
Unless you actually try to make it stop, that's what meditation is.
(cont)
>>79088386
As long as you live you will have brain scan readings.
>>79088580
>As in it's a real difference, it's not a placebo effect where you think something is happening, you're changing your brain wave frequency to theta.
The placebo effect shows up in brain scans. Why wouldn't it?
>You just genuinely don't understand that meditation is a really common thing
How many people do it =/= it being useful.
>>79082239
Prayer is my meditation. I can sense the presence of God.
I can be doing anything - cooking, walking, watching my children play, listening to the rain, gardening; whatever.
Going into a meditative state is about making a deep connection with everything.
Prayer nurtures my soul. It's not simply about relaxation. It is more about deliberate, careful focus and connecting with God.
There is no instruction book. It must come from within.
>>79089882
'muh placeburr effect' doesn't invalidate its efficacy.
>>79082239
I "meditate" in two ways. I'm not sure if they can really be called meditation, though.
I sit in a very loud, visually busy area, for example the public park near the main stretch of roadway, and "let in" everything i can sense. Every car whizzing past, the smell of grass and exhaust, the feel of the tree I'm leaning against. I let it completely wash out my sense of individuality and self for what feels like 15 minutes. I've had police come up to me and ask questions because I've been standing there for an hour without moving, though.
The other way is an extended hook breathing when I'm under a lot of stress. Like, until its becomes too painful to do any more and my vision goes blurry. Really clears my head.
>>79090249
>i felt better after taking a sugar pill i was told would make me feel better
>i felt better after meditating i was told would make me feel better
>>79085919
Meditation is literally harnessing the placebo effect to bring about structural changes to your brain.
>>79089570
Meditation consists of giving yourself a moment, taking a step back and evaluating things.
I'll give you another example, you live in a house and it's time to go get some groceries, you have 4 flatmates, you gather in the living room and ask what groceries must be purchased.
Every single one starts talking at the same time, each one listing their respective things, you try to listen to them all and remember it all, needless to say, it's not easy.
Meditation is taking a moment, asking each one of them what they want and writing it down.
Meditation is also dealing with what happens in life, try to clear your mind right now and you won't be able to do it, you won't be able to clear your mind while meditating either, that's some nirvana shit and it's supposed to take decades of practice.
What will happen is that you will start thinking about stuff, but instead of getting carried away, you must examine your thoughts, then go back to concentration.
This can be the silliest of things, but the train of thought is radically different. For example.
Not meditating: it's pretty cold => strange, since it's june => is the window open?
Meditating: It's pretty cold.
And that's it.
It's cold, ok, good to know, the end.
It doesn't have to end there, but you musn't get carried away by needless thoughts.
All in all, I'd say it brings perspective to life, I'd also say it's enjoyable and something everybody should try.
>>79090730
If only there was evidence. MRI scans only show brain activity.
>>79090612
>false equivalency
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1361002/
Let me know when sugar pills increase cortical thickness.
>>79090848
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004979/
College
Col..le..ge
Col...le...ge
Col........le.......ge
This technique I often use. at the points you head is empty. so you can practice focus and silence inbyour head . Use what word you like and try too build up to 5 or 10 minutes and if you are extreme then do an hour. col.5min.le.5min.ge
>>79090753
So stream of consciousness rambling posts are the results of a meditated mind?
>>79090860
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1361002/
>20 people in the sample
Wow that's some weak data. If that's all it takes to convince you, i can't imagine what other kookery resides in your mind.
>>79091450
Whatever you say kiddo.
>>79090520
>extended hook breathing
care to elaborate?
>>79091061
>40 people
>taken from a medical school population
Wow, i can't believe this even got published. This has the same standards for evidence gathering as "video games cause violence" studies i've seen.
>>79091537
You sound real enlightened. How do you sit in the lotus position with a stick up your ass?
>>79091752
>being this mad
>but im the one with the stick up my ass
Loving every laugh. Maybe you should take up meditation.
>>79091578
You know how when you need to push a massive shit you take a breath and kind of pressure-force it hard in your chest before squeezing it out?
Like that, minus the shitting.
>>79091841
I'm just saying, you don't sound very enlightened. You sound like another kid who thinks they know everything, and you have absolutely no scientific integrity since you'll accept even the most banal of data, even knowing just how microscopic and self-selective their methodology is.
You haven't isolated anything. You haven't controlled for other factors. You haven't ruled out other causes. It says what you want to hear, so you believe it.
Good job.
>>79091913
lol so i hold my breath while 'squeezing'?
when do i exhale?
>>79092177
>they should have just found more people doing this obscure uncommon practice
>muh scientific integrity
You need to say no more, it's clear you're the atheist type who uses words in a failed attempt at sounding intelligent, refusing to change his lifestyle because of lacking factors and opting to be anal-retentive as all hell to appear intelligent online.
But go ahead and say I think I know everything when I made no such claim.
>>79092388
When it becomes physically impossible to not exhale.
Then do it again and keep doing it until you can't.
Touch your Adam's apple with your hand and think in words. do the same thing but think visually without itnernal dialogue, as if a silent movie being played in your head.y ou notice that your throat isbin tension 's like you want to talk but you do not talk . a very large stress factor
>>79082239
Beneficial, as proven by neuroscience, but the word "meditation" is also as vague as the word "exercise."
>>79092683
you mean until i crap my pants?
>>79092717
wow its true
makes sense
>>79085919
calming down your wandering thoughts, focusing on the here and now, ignoring all desires, Placebo effect? You couldn't meditate with it present. Meditation is beyond explanation or definition.
>>79082239
meditation is redpill
>>79093508
>minus the shitting
Unless you're into that. Judging from your picture you're /r9k/, so you probably are.
>>79093826
im not
i just think its funny
>>79093544
You don't need meditation for that.
>>79092639
I'm sorry, but if your attitude is what is to be gained from meditation, i want no part of it.
Try being humble.
>>79093997
Maybe you should meditate on humor for a while.
>>79094013
>its just placebo effect you guise, this ancient practice that has existed for thousands of years is no different than sugar pills
>but im the one that needs to be humble
>my attitude is upsetting to the armchair scientist
You're welcome to have no part of it, then.
>>79082878
>not just practicing thinking of nothing 24/7 to stop them from listening
Waste of time.
>>79094013
>You don't need meditation for that
how else can you do it
>>79094184
yeah it's shit tier
>>79094273
It's called focus. It's called introspection. You don't need to sit cross legged and breathe funny for that. But adding the ritual adds value to the experience for most people. hence why meditation is praised.
>>79094231
Blood letting is an ancient practice too. But i stick to my guns on requiring scientific verisimilitude for my ancient practices.
The words of an armchair dalai lama from the united states don't really concern me.
>>79094013
>you dont need meditation for that
you FUCKING nigger.
That is meditation.
>>79094897
No, it isn't. it's having a drink on your porch. It's taking 5 minutes and thinking responsibly.
Mysticism need not apply.
>>79094859
>You don't need to sit cross legged and breathe funny for that
so like saying ommm and that shit?
you can just lie down and try to relax as much as you can
thats it
>>79094859
>this second false equivalency surely means im right
>no sir, i shall only plan my life in such a way that runs in accordance with cold, hard evidence, and that study from earlier just didn't fit the bill
Good luck with your future endeavors, then.
>>79095339
>>no sir, i shall only plan my life in such a way that runs in accordance with cold, hard evidence, and that study from earlier just didn't fit the bill
>There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth; not going all the way, and not starting.
Guess who said that.
>>79095645
>Guess who said that.
No.
>>79095232
fyi: meditation does not require a layer of mysticism.
>>79095769
>Not starting
How enlightened. Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without.
>>79095812
Then meditation is no more beneficial than sitting on my porch with a drink in hand.
>>79095913
We agree, then.
>>79096005
>>79096005
You could meditate sitting on your porch with a drink in hand, sure.
>>79096658
If there is no difference between sitting and relaxing and meditating, why distinguish it?
>>79096878
Why not? Comes down to preference.
Why have this board on Tomorrow setting when you could choose Yotsuba B? For the record I prefer Tomorrow.
>>79096878
it's about the extent of relaxation
i've told about this state of trance
what do you think it is?
>>79097164
The placebo effect. Did you begin meditating before you had expectations of its effects? Or did one precede the other? How have you eliminated your own bias?
>>79082239
It is important to help ground yourself.
Your conscious mind is much weaker than your your subconscious mind. Your subconscious mind will draw from programming to present you voices that have been compelling/true in the past.
In most cases, these voices will be self defeating. Should you consciously attend to these thoughts, you will manifest them as failures and struggles in your life.
Someone like Trump, never got those negative voices. So, he is very successful. Most people had harder childhoods, with imperfect teachers and families.
Meditation is a skill that must be trained. There are different techniques. The end goal, is to control and be responsible for your own thoughts.
Do not entertain fear or negativity. Laugh at it, and throw the thoughts out. Understand you are unlimited consciousness experiencing a holographic universe. Love yourself, reality, and all of creation.
Another note: understand epigenetics, it ties in closely with meditation and gives power to positivity if you can understand the power of fields.
Mind body, and spirit, my friends.
>>79097557
i dont really know what to expect, felt pretty lightweight
mind you, i only lie on my back
>The placebo effect
okay, what is this effect like besides being placebo
>>79097962
>okay, what is this effect like besides being placebo
I don't understand what you mean by that.
>>79094859
It's actually just, normal breathing. Why are the Zen centers so barren? Just wood, and cushions. Because they want to foster a bear, simple mind. Through simple techniques and no religious bullshit.
No, you can use a chair, No you don't have to sit funny if you don't want to, and no, meditation is not praised, because I know people who went crazy from the deep introspection that came with it.
Fight it all you want, the void always wins.
>>79082878
This
>>79098157
i worded that wrong
how is this placebo supposed to make you feel?
>>79098388
How you expect it to, more or less. People given sugar pills and told that they are headache medicine will often report a lessening of their headache symptoms. Surely the sugar had no effect on that. I think the same can be applied towards meditation.
Or do you deny the power of the mind?
>>79084140
I thought I was the only one who can't sleep drunk
>>79098575
but that is the power of your mind, it's the only thing you use after all
still, i dont think it will make you feel excited if you expect it
and i told you, i haven't expected anything
hard to even describe the feeling
kinda like you're beeing submerged in a dark void but that's just me
>>79094859
>You don't need to sit cross legged and breathe funny for that.
you don't need to do those things to meditate
>>79096005
kek, nah m8, there are scientifically proven benefits from meditation. Try it, pussy. What is the worst that can happen by sitting still and honing the mind. The point is to stop it from wandering.
>>79096878
Meditation doesn't mean religious/spiritual mumbo jumbo, you're just getting bogged down in the different meanings of a word. Marcus Aurelius' private diary on his personal thoughts is now called Meditations, but it doesn't mean he practiced eastern meditation. At its most basic, meditation means focusing your thoughts on something. It could be your work or a problem you have, or it could just be your breathing.
Fellas I went to the gym and lifted weights for a few months and my muscles got bigger. this is just the placebo effect tricking my muscles into growing, right
