https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxW_VLn2CB4
One Church founded by Christ
One Faith founded by Christ
The Orthodox Church, the Orthodox faith
A pastebin with FAQ's and reading lists with links, to answer questions Catholics and Protestants and atheists and others might have: http://pastebin.com/bN1ujq2x
>>79077631
Reminder that the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is the Orthodox Church, and only the Orthodox Church.
https://www.holycouncil.org/-/rest-of-christian-world
>>79078191
>Reminder that the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is the Orthodox Church, and only the Orthodox Church.
Amen
>https://www.holycouncil.org/-/rest-of-christian-world
>In spite of this, the Orthodox Church accepts the historical name of other non-Orthodox Christian Churches and Confessions that are not in communion with he
kek, no we don't. This is non-binding and without any force.
Thank goodness Russia, Bulgarian, Georgia and Antioch withdrew from this.
>>79077631
>“With regard to the first matter, they (the Romans) have produced the unanimous documentary evidence of the Latin fathers, and also of Cyril of Alexandria, from the sacred commentary he composed on the gospel of St. John. On the basis of these texts, they have shown that they have not made the Son the cause of the Spirit — they know in fact that the Father is the only cause of the Son and the Spirit, the one by begetting and the other by procession; but [they use this expression] in order to manifest the Spirit’s coming-forth (προϊέναι) through him and, in this way, to make clear the unity and identity of the essence….
Maximus the Confessor
There is nothing wrong with Filioque
>>79077631
What happens when you put the two triangles together, kike worshipers?
>>79077631
And to all Orthodox who laugh at Catholics who still try to fight with cultural marxism. You are in better situation now, but friendly reminder that 80% of orthodox clergy and 100% of orthodox bishops were KGB agents.
>>79079607
It's better than the original text, which said we "...the historical existence..."
As I understand it, this is actually the first time the Orthodox Church has explicitly said in a great council that heterodox churches have no legitimacy.
I agree on the council overall though. It was a glorified press conference.
>>79084106
>ou are in better situation now, but friendly reminder that 80% of orthodox clergy and 100% of orthodox bishops were KGB agents.
t. Soros
>>79082016
There is when you insert in the Nicene Creed, since the Latin here is a translation of the Greek.
>>79084546
There are no heterodox churches, properly speaking, just heterodox heresies. We use "church" casually, but not in dogma, dogmatically they are just heresies.
>>79082016
If the Roman Church would do these two things, it would clear up the whole issue:
1. The Pope must say in an ex-cathedra statement: "To anyone who says the eternal procession of the Holy Spirit's hypostasis is from both the Father and the Son together as from one principle: Anathema."
2. Uphold Pope Leo III's ban on the Fillioque, for historical and pastoral reasons, if not dogmatic reasons.
>>79077631
Was on the fence with Christianity for a while. I always have trouble with sin, particularly lust/fapping. How do you quit? I always hear that it's impossible on your own and you need the holy spirit and stuff. How exactly are you supposed to do that?
>>79084778
True. I would prefer they had used the term "heterodox Christian communities" or some such.
Explain to me, without using hyperbole or metaphors, what is the Holy Spirit?
>>79077631
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk
>>79085418
One of the three Persons of the Holy Trinity.
Daily reminder that Christians worship a dead hippy kike on a 2x4
>>79077631
Redpill me on (((protestants))).
Are they good or bad? and why they suck Israel's cock? and why almost every president of US was protestant except one even US is half Catholics?
>>79085246
You try your best, if you fail, you try again. Confession helps. We are sinners and sin is part of our nature since Adam and Eve, overcoming it and aiming to be a better person is always possible though.
t. in the same shoes
>>79085246
Give yourself 20 lashings on the back whenever you have lustful thoughts.
>>79085353
If they did, then Georgia probably wouldn't have vetoed. This document is what they explicitly objected to.
>>79085418
The Holy Spirit is the third hypostasis of God. God does all things from the Father, by the Son and in the Holy Spirit.
>>79085770
Not Arian Christians
Which is the only true way
>>79085850
ty, will keep trying
gl to you
>>79085876
woah, that's some Savonarola shit
>>79085246
1. Fasting
2. Confession
3. Prayer
Read, The Way of the Pilgrim, it's short, enjoyable, and it will help your prayer life. Also get icons and hang them in your house. Just as looking at porn harms you spiritually (Father Seraphim Rose called porn "the Devil's icons"), so looking at holy icons is spiritually beneficial.
Russian orthodox church is the most based church out there.
Literally enchanting AKs for +5 damage in shock phase and +15% critical hit.
Sola scriptura cucks on suicide watch.
>>79084106
>80% of orthodox clergy and 100% of orthodox bishops were KGB agents
Nice meme
I know of another symbol composed of two triangles Goyim.
>>79085811
They were right to object to the excesses of the Roman Church, but thy were wrong to deny the authority of Holy Tradition.
If the early Lutherans had been better listeners in their dialogue with Jeremias II, they may have converted to Orthodoxy.
>>79085246
>>79085520
Orthodox Church allows condemn use. Coitus interruptus has never be classified as a sin, either (obviously we're talking about marital sex here, and not something to prevent children altogether).
"If for a certain period, you and your wife have abstained by agreement, perhaps for a time of prayer and fasting, come together again for the sake of your marriage. You do not need procreation as an excuse. It is not the chief reason for marriage. Neither is it necessary to allow for the possibility of conceiving, and thus having a large number of children, something you may not want."
-Saint John Chrysostom
Sex is, optimally, a total giving of the self, and should be open to the possibility of procreation, but where more children could greater hamper the lives and future of your present children, then having sex with the possibility of procreation is not an act of giving, it is an act of selfishness, and to practice abstinence for purely economic concerns rather than as a spiritual discipline, is unwise, as Paul cautions, and Christ outright says that not all can be celibate, only those to whom it has been given (Matthew 19:11). Forcing permanent celibacy on couples who can't, in good conscience, have more children, is very harmful. Saint Paul says if you can't control yourself, get married, and the Catholic Church says those who are married need to control themselves.
>>79086320
+1 for DTTW
>>79077631
God bless
>>79086113
>fasting
can you give me a bit more info on this?
>confession
I grew up near a evangelical church so I'm not too familiar with confessions. After I moved, most churches near are protestant as well. But I will look into it more. Also, would you think that denominations are important?
>prayer, path of pilgrim
will try that too, ty
>>79086396
*condom us
>>79086320
saved
will try this next time I'm tempted, ty anon
>>79086293
I have no idea what you're talking about...
They are the only religion that I'm sceptical about (I'm biased a bit since they destroyed a bunch of our countries...), should I keep staying aware from them or they are just good people and I'm misunderstanding them?
>>79085811
They're bad. They are pro-Israel because they were subverted by the CI Scofield Reference Bible which interprets the land that God promised to Abraham as the modern state of Israel. Catholics were not popular in US politics because protestants were afraid that the US would be controlled by the Pope and the Vatican.
>>79086746
Hmmm...
I like Catholics.
>>79086485
>can you give me a bit more info on this?
http://www.abbamoses.com/fasting.html
If you practice this, it will help.
>. Also, would you think that denominations are important?
Christ only founded ONE kind of Christianity, and it's Orthodox.
And yes, it is important. Christ told the Apostles, whatever sins you do not forgive, God will not forgive (John 20:23). They passed this office on by handpicking people, and they passed it on. If Christ said God won't forgive you unless they do, you best believe it.
>>79077631
I'm many of you know that religion's purpose historically has been to promote and maintain principles beneficial to particular civilizations. Christianity in particular was never fundamentalist in origin and meant to be taken allegorically, mostly.
Today we live in a civilization that has largely replaced the "preserving religion" with mass education and an open society. What is the purpose of religion in the light of this new level of civilization? Certainly it doesn't have the old purpose.
PRAY THE ROSARY
>>79086606
>>79086396
Eh, not exactly. No branch of Christianity, including Orthodoxy, permitted the use of artificial birth control before the ~1920s and the demonic, anti-family movements of Margaret Sanger and others.
This tragic concept is very new and I cringe when Orthodox people trumpet that which is, at best, an extreme concession of oikonomia. It is not the norm, and should not be considered such.
Marriage is primarily about salvation, but procreation is a close second. The two are inextricably linked, as the married couple is an icon of God, the life-giver. Anyone who doesn't believe this should read the Crowning service and note how many references there are to child-bearing.
My own priest will not perform a marriage for a couple who are not ready to have children, and I think he is right. Waiting to have children after marriage is an indication that they are not ready to be married. It is a lack of faith in God.
>>79084603
>There is when you insert in the Nicene Creed
Oh boy, you have so much to learn
>>79086951
Christianity's purpose is to spiritually and physically commune with God in order to partake of his Resurrection.
>>79087192
>Spain
You are the ones who committed the error in the first place.
Why is the life of a Christian always so much of suffering and bitterness?
I want revenge on people that wronged me yet The Bible clearly says to turn the other cheek. It feels like I'm not standing up to myself.
>>79087155
>No branch of Christianity, including Orthodoxy, permitted the use of artificial birth control before the ~1920s
That's because most forms of birth control could harm what's post-conception. We never prohibited coitus interruptus, and permitting condoms was just an extension of that.
>>79077631
>orthodoxy meme
have fun getting indoctrinated into a FOREIGN religion by russian propaganda, paid propagandists memeing the shit out of the alt-right and it's working lol
sola pic related
>>79087282
I don't know what error you are talking about
>>79087155
Also we don't permit use of condoms to make a marriage childless, you obviously should not marry if you aren't ready for kids. Condoms are simply to limit the number.
>>79086927
>Christ told the Apostles, whatever sins you do not forgive, God will not forgive (John 20:23)
so you must do confessions to the priest to be forgiven?
>>79087310
pray for them to get struck by lightning, if you have the faith of a mustard seed then it will happen
>>79087310
Well if you expect God to forgive you, you have to do the same for others.
>>79087325
Not really, because coitus interruptus is still open to the possibility of conception in that it doesn't always go according to plan. With condoms that possibility is virtually nil (especially with new, anti-microbial condoms and so forth), as a material barrier is put in place.
>>79087310
You do realize that turning the other cheek is standing up to yourself and defying openly the one who wronged you, right?
>>79087530
For serious sins, yes. Minor sins are generally considered to be cleansed away by Christ's blood taken as communion. But even if you don't commit major sins, you should go to confession regularly.
Note that in Orthodoxy, we don't face the priest in confession, we face an icon. The priest stands beside as a witness.
>>79087564
>Well if you expect God to forgive you
For what?
Exodus 20
[4]“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. [5]You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, [6]but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
>>79087431
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Council_of_Toledo
>>79087637
>Not really, because coitus interruptus is still open to the possibility of conception
The idea is to prevent it, the possibility is a failure on that part, it's not an intentional possibility. That's why Saint John Chrysostom said, "Neither is it necessary to allow for the POSSIBILITY of conceiving"
>>79087383
If every Christian rejected Orthodoxy because of how "foreign" it is the world would be full of a bunch of Mormon tier cults, each with their own Joseph Smith.
>>79087810
what is considered a serious sin? I also don't live near any orthodox church and where can I get one of these icons?
>>79087914
I don't know what you've done.
>>79088004
Again, I don't know what error you are talking about.
>>79088026
I understand; I just don't agree with the Golden Tongue on this point.
>>79087941
Firstly, we know the ancient Hebrews did not have a problem with images in their temples. If you care to look up the ancient synagogue of Dura-Europos (since destroyed by Daesh), you will see that it was covered with images from the Hebrew Bible. The Hebrew Bible itself describes numerous images in places of worship (Exodus 25:19-20, Exodus 26:1, Exodus 26:31, 1 Kings 6:23-29, just like Orthodox temples today, the Hebrew Temple was supposed to be like being in heaven, hence all the angels). First, let's examine the word, used in Exodus 20:4, often translated as "likeness" or "form" is תְּמוּנָה (temunah); the Septuagint's equivalent to this is εἶδος (eidos), this is the term Plato is so fond of, and it is generally translated in his works as "form". This is *not* the same term used for likeness is many other parts of the Bible. For instance, the word translated as likeness in Genesis 1:26 is דְּמוּת (demuth), or דָּמָה (damah) in verb form--this term is also often translated as "similitude" in the King James Bible, such as in Hosea 12:10; the Greek equivalent to this is ὁμοίωμα (homoioma). If we look at how these words are used, the distinction is readily apparent: prophets often used the term "demuth" when describing what their visions looked like (Ezekiel 10:21, for instance), whereas temunah is used to mean a form (man is made in the likeness of God, not in the form of God) such as in Job 4:16, Psalms 17:15 and Deuteronomy 4:12, this term is often used as a stand-in for the face of God,
cont
>>79088208
which in Orthodox theology is God's uncreated grace, which is fully and truly God, and which we can behold (unlike God's essence, which is infinitely transcendent and beyond all creatures), it is *form* as opposed to the *simulacrum*. Now the term translated as "graven image" (or "idol" in other parts) is the word פֶּ֫סֶל (pesel), the Greek equivalent of this is the term εἴδωλον (eidolon), which is the source of the English word "idol"; it comes from the aforementioned "eidos". An eidolon is an avatar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidolon_(apparition) Now this term is very distinct from צֶ֫לֶם (tselem), which is word translated as "image" in Genesis 1:26--the Greek equivalent here is εἰkών (eikón), source of the English word "icon"; you would used the term icon to describe someone's reflection, but you would never use it to describe someone's avatar (idol). While idolatry (idol + latria) is wrong, beholding icons is spiritually advisable, it's not just a matter of ornamentation, it's far more important. The more you behold something like pornography, the more harmful it is to you spiritually, but the more behold something like holy icons, the more beneficial it is to you spiritually. "The lamp of the body is the eye! If therefore your eye is sound, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is evil, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!" [Matthew 6:22-23, Orthodox translation]. Everything we see affects our spiritual health, either positively, or harmfully, and icons are crucial among the positive things. You are what you see, so to speak.
>>79088113
The assertion that the Holy Spirit spirates from the Father and the Son as from one principle.
>>79085231
I'm pretty sure this is how Catholic Church understand filiqoue. This whole issue in my opinion is just one big misuderstanding. For filiqoue were Tertullian, Jerome, Ambrose and Augustine.
>>79084603
>>79086186
It's not a mysthery that Orthodox Church in Soviet Union and in Eastern Block was controlled by state. This is why they alwas "support" the state or praised the "freedom of religion" in Soviet Union. They have also agents in Catholic Church, but since Catholic Church is fully independent (also by international law) and it has independent state it was harder to controled church by force. Now Catholic Church is in deep crisis due to masons and cultural marxist.
>>79084603
>There is when you insert in the Nicene Creed, since the Latin here is a translation of the Greek.
I don't really understand.
>>79088270
Nothing stated in that council is wrong.
>>79088055
Murder, adultery, stuff like that (also counts if you committed it in your heart).
>>79085811
>Are they good or bad?
Usually good people that are mislead. It also has the problem that denial of tradition leads to ever increasing heresy, so you see people claiming to be "Christian" and believing there's nothing wrong with abortion, for example (notably Methodists).
>and why they suck Israel's cock?
Protestants tend to interpret the Bible in a fragmentary way, they don't see the big picture, so they often misinterpret passages, by looking at them out of context. They believe the modern Israel is the promised land and that modern Jews are God's chosen people, ignoring that modern Jews are nothing but the Pharisees from the Bible. Protestants also often think all rules from the old testament apply, and because of this you see Protestant denominations which forbid eating pork, for example.
Another problem is that anyone can become a pastor, so it's often the blind leading the blind. There's no real united faith among Protestants, since they have what is called private interpretation. Add the mistranslated Bibles and you've got yourself a heresy cocktail.
On top of that, only the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church have apostolic succession, meaning only their priests have power to order new priests, to forgive sins or to consecrate the host. The Anglican Church used to have apostolic succession too but it broke at some point which I don't remember.
>>79088055
>I also don't live near any orthodox church and where can I get one of these icons?
Order one online
Also, you can arrange to confess your sins through emails, and have a different priest come by every once and a while to say the forgiveness--as in, the priest who does the forgiving doesn't have to be the one who hears the confession.
>>79088357
>I'm pretty sure this is how Catholic Church understand filiqoue. This whole issue in my opinion is just one big misuderstanding.
I hope that is the case. If so, the RCC should have no problem disavowing something that it does not even believe.
>>79087941
Exodus 25
18 And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work you shall make them at the two ends of the mercy seat. 19 Make one cherub at one end, and the other cherub at the other end; you shall make the cherubim at the two ends of it of one piece with the mercy seat. 20 And the cherubim shall stretch out their wings above, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and they shall face one another; the faces of the cherubim shall be toward the mercy seat.
>>79088164
Golden Mouth
Is this image implying that the Holy Spirit is below The Father and The Son according to Catholics? Cause that's not true
>>79088611
Theft and lying also. My priest told me software piracy was also theft, which I don't personally agree, with but it's not my call to make.
>>79077631
Catholicism is true faith. Sorry dude. Orthodoxy is OK but Catholicism was literally established by Christ.
>>79088931
The Orthodox would agree. But we are the Catholic Church, not the Vatican communion.
>>79087383
>he thinks the Bible is American
>>79088703
Hmmm... thanks man.
>>79088357
>I don't really understand.
The Greek word for "proceeds" is a lot more particular than the Latin one. The Church Fathers said it was okay to say the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son in Latin, but not in Greek. However, they weren't referring to the Nicene Creed, they just mean in general theology. The Nicene Creed's source language is Greek (just as the New Testament is), so Latin translations of Greek terms here have to be used like the Greek terms, not what it might mean in other contexts in Latin.
>>79088799
No, it implies that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, which was added to the Creed by Catholics in the 800s.
>>79088726
ty anon, I'll look more into this. Just one more question.
I thought that the first church was founded on Peter, which is the catholic church Why do you consider Orthodoxy to be the right church?
I've got to go. Happy feast of Ss. Peter and Paul tomorrow, all.
>>79089126
np bud :^)
>>79088893
Yeah, well you're RCC. Orthodox don't see it as theft since copying something was not considered theft when the commandment was written, in fact not until long, long afterward, so it's not theologically theft. It is arguably a sin because you are defying your authorities when they aren't demanding you to go against your faith, but that is not the same sin as theft. Just like if the authorities said killing a pig was murder, then killing a pig might be wrong in the sense of defying authorities, but it wouldn't theologically be murder.
>>79077631
It should be the upside down triangle but with son and holy spirit on top and the father on bottom.
>>79088357
>It's not a mysthery that Orthodox Church in Soviet Union and in Eastern Block was controlled by state.
Citation needed. There was great persecution by the state, many thousands of parishes, hospitals, seminaries, monasteries, universities shut down, and many clergymen forced to make tough decisions under pressure, but there is nothing to suggest a complete subversive infiltration and takeover of the clergy by the KGB that continues to this day. And even if this bogus claim were true, the Church as a whole is still without blemish, as Russia is only one part of the whole.
>there are people that believe Orthodoxy or Catholicism are the right way
The Christian Church got corrupted so hard early on that it needs to be restored to the original values, not reformed. Join The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Against degeneracy. Full of pure qt women. Almost exclusively white.
>>79089203
Ok thank you for clarifying, I understand that concept
>>79089241
The Orthodox Church was founded on Peter.
Catholics got mixed up and thought the "rock" is an office that gets passed down. Peter is called the rock for his role in founding the Church (Saint Jerome adds that all the Apostles were rocks, but Peter was the first among them, and he also is the first to be given the authority of the bishop, which is later conferred in the rest). The Pope of today had no role in founding the Church, so he's obviously not the rock.
>>79077631
Is there any biblical justification for the crusades?
>>79089241
I really wonder why those who make these threads just stop beating around the bush, and just say this is not a Christian General thread, but a Catholic and Orthodox thread. It's clear enough you regard any and all protestants with utter disdain, regardless of reasons.
>>79089097
The Mormon Bible is american and has some truths to it. You are the ignorant one.
>>79088728
Orthodoxs should admit there is connection beetwen Son and Holy Spirit. From the Father through the Son. I don't why why it became such a problem. In Filiquoe belived fathers of the church and popes like Leo I, and it wasn't any problem at that time.
>>79077631
Daily reminder christians aren't allowed to defend their race and must let the pakistanis and the niggers rape their women because to defend his people is idolatrous and bad :)
8. Whoever exalts race, or the people, or the State, or a particular form of State, or the depositories of power, or any other fundamental value of the human community - however necessary and honorable be their function in worldly things - whoever raises these notions above their standard value and divinizes them to an idolatrous level, distorts and perverts an order of the world planned and created by God; he is far from the true faith in God and from the concept of life which that faith upholds.
http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_14031937_mit-brennender-sorge.html
>>79087383
Stay heretic, burger
>>79089779
Just defense from Islam
>>79089623
Look at Patriarch Kirill. He only met with pope Francis becouse Putin (who has not many friend in western countries) told him to do so. Nowadays Orthodox Church is more independent than in CCCP but still ties with the state are too strong.
>>79089968
>Vatican
>>79089797
what? read my previous posts? Nowhere did I mention anything about protestants. I was raised evangelical and it has influenced much of my interpretation of Christianity. I'm looking into Orthodoxy and Catholicism currently to find out how the different interpretations of the scripture and decide which one makes the most sense/true.
>>79089840
>>79090342
See, in Latin, the term can mean "continues through", but in Greek it strictly means "comes from".
>>79082016
While the filoque is not necessarily heretical, it is needless verbosity and a unilateral alteration to the creed on the part of the Pope.
It can lead to heresy, and you lose nothing by removing it and restoring the creed to its original form.
Just get rid of it already (and Vatican II while you're at it).
>>79090327
>He only met with pope Francis because Putin told him to do so.
t. Soros
>>79089968
Fr. Peter Heers- "Patriotism, loving one’s country, one’s homeland, one’s people, is perfectly good and fine and accepted by the Church. In fact, there are many saints who are quite patriotic and quite lovers of their homeland—even defending their homeland against invaders, against nonbelievers. And so certainly, phyletism is not loving one’s people, one’s country, one’s homeland. There’s nothing wrong with that. So when people express great love for their homeland or their country, one should not misunderstand them and confuse their love for something which it is not, that is phyletism.
Now phyletism is also not a strong, healthy self-identity—that is as a Greek or Russian or Serbian or American. It’s perfectly good and healthy to have a proper self-identity. I am a part of this people, which call themselves Hellenists or Russians or Serbians or what it might be, and I’m very happy to be a part of this group, a part of this nation. And certainly we have an example of the Jewish people, the people of God in the Old Testament. They certainly were not shy about their identity and about expressing their identity as the people of God.
Phyletism is not having reservations about multinational unions, globalization, European Unions, North American Unions, international groups which seemingly subvert local governments. Phyletism is not even the desire to get out of these groups; it is not to be seen as something negative. In fact, the Church has always held a somewhat reserved and even a negative stance toward such developments seeing in them, precursors to the “man of iniquity,” the Antichrist.
So phyletism is not a zeal for one’s autonomy, the country’s autonomy from these multinational, international, organizations. There’s nothing all that virtuous in uniting the nations under one government. That’s not something the Church should see automatically as something good."
At what point does sex become not sinful?
>>79085811
Because their preachers tell them to, protestants are cultists not Christians or a real religion.
>>79089757
So the patriarch of other cities is an office which is passed down, but pope office is not. Interesting.
>>79090372
Shit, wasn't meant you quote you.
>>79090327
So your proofs for your outrageous claims are some nonsense about Kirill being paid to meet with the pope, get real anon
>>79086201
shut the fuck up infidel.
>>79090557
The several additions to the Creed are made to combat heresy. The Creed without the Filioque isn't the original version you damn retard.
Also, the Church doesn't need anyone's permission, just like it doesn't need the permission from protestants.
>three gods
Lol
>>79077631
so what you're saying is..
these two types of (((Christianity))) are just two triangular halves of the same Jewish Star?
>>79077631
Daily reminder Constantine broke few canons - she should've been excommunicated already.
>>79089757
The Pope has the authority that is passed to the succesors of Peter. Peter was the first authority of this kind.
>>79089833
Mormons have 4 books in their canon. The Bible (same as every other Christian religion), The Book of Mormon (tells the story of Nephi and his descendants who are Israelites who traveled to North America by boat around 600 BC), Doctrine & Covenants (talks about stuff you should and shouldn't do), and Pearl of Great Price (has some extra stuff about Moses and Abraham that were omitted from the Bible, and some stuff about Joseph Smith).
>>79089196
So what's the diffrence exactly in greek filiquoe and latin filiquoe.
>>79088357
How can Church an independent institution - which is just a spiritual group be controlled by the state?
Were some patriarchs and members of clergy controlled in Russia - maybe - who cares tho?
If they wanted to modify dogmas of the Church they couldn't regardless as it is one Holy Catholic Church world wide.
Can I watch anime and read manga and be a Christian?
>>79090947
>The Creed without the Filioque isn't the original version
So what, the East removed it? Proof?
>>79084106
this.
Although the current pope is a free-mason. If not a closet Marxist.
What is /pol/s views on Fundamental Protestant Christianity? I'm talking about based Steven Anderson and the like.
>>79089968
>willingly destroying the creation of God
wew lad
>>79091398
Yes, just don't use it as escapism and don't fap to little girls
>>79090792
The "rock" was never an office, it was a title for Peter. In 1 Peter 5:1, Peter appeals to elders* as a "fellow elder", he has the same office they do. He is called the rock as a title for his role in founding the Church. Christ does not say, "and I say that your chair is the rock, and on this chair I build my Church."
*"Presbyterous" in Greek, the source of the English word "priests"--back then, this was the same office as "episkopos" (overseer), the source of the English word "bishop"; that is because there was only one parish per diocese back then, the Church was much sparser.
>>79091226
Peter didn't have supreme authority though. He got rebuked by Paul and James had the final say in the Council of Jerusalem.
>>79091413
The first addition to the Creed was made in 381. The Filioque is just another addition, just as valid as the first one.
>>79091413
He is Spanish. The filoque comes from his country, where it was introduced to combat a specific heresy (I forget which) during the first millenia of t he church.
He will defend it to the death.
>>79090792
"Patriarch" by the way, only has authority to appoint and call councils. He can not tell other bishops what to do in their own dioceses, he is just a bishop.
>>79091854
Ex cathedra the Pope has supreme authority, plays a special role and evrything accepted as dogma must have the consent of the Pope.
>>79086186
>Nice meme
it's true you faggot
they literally worked with the commies
>>79091226
Peter was a leader, he didn't have any higher-than-bishop juridical authority though.
See
>>79091767
>>79092042
All dogma was formulated by Christ and imparted to his Apostles, no more can be added, none can be taken away, the understanding cannot change.
>>79091550
>What is /pol/s views on Fundamental Protestant Christianity? I'm talking about based Steven Anderson and the like.
He is a disgusting heretic that literally believes Christ was tormented in Gehenna because his precious KJV translates both Hades and Gehenna as Hell.
What is a virus? What makes it specifically a virus as opposed to a microorganism? For one thing, a virus cannot reproduce by itself. Microorganisms like amoebas, protozoa, and the cells in your body can do that on their own.
A virus is just a container for its own genetic material which injects it into microorganisms. Viral DNA or RNA simply consists of instructions which compel the infected cell to make more viruses, in order to infect yet more cells.
Viruses do not have to be biological! Everybody's heard of computer viruses. They are very small, simple programs which, if simply left sitting in storage media like a flash drive or CD, would be inert and powerless.
Like a biological virus, they cannot reproduce themselves, they need a host to do that. Computers in this case. The virus is simply instructions for a computer which compel it to make more viruses in order to infect more computers.
Some have more of a purpose than that. There are types which commandeer large numbers of computers to serve the interests of the guy who programmed it, such as bitcoin mining or sending out mass spam emails. This is called a botnet.
There are some which bring up fraudulent messages that look like legitimate system warnings, asking you to buy software from the company responsible for making that virus in order to fix a nonexistent issue. This is known as scareware.
Now, viruses can be biological and they can be software. In either case, if you boil it down to basics, it's just *information* designed to compel some sort of host to propagate it to more hosts, spreading faster than it can be removed.
So it should come as no surprise that there can exist viruses designed to do this to the human brain, consisting of information written down, recorded as audio or in some other format comprehensible to us.
One example is a chain letter. It includes a strong but unverifiable incentive if you send it to 5 friends, like *"your crush will confess to you tomorrow"*. Of course that doesn't happen but because it's conditional on you sending it to five people, by the time you find that out, the author of the chain email has already gotten what he wanted from you; for you to spread it.
There's also an unverifiable punishment if you don't spread it which works the same way. Something like *"If you don't send this to five people, a headless ghost girl will visit you in your bed tonight"*. By the time you discover that was a load of BS, you've sent the mail on to five more people.
There is often some sort of imminent time limit, like *"send it within 24 hours"* or *"five minutes from when you see this"*, and the reward is conditional upon sending it within that period. This is to add urgency and prevent you from thinking too carefully about what the email is and what it's designed to do.
Then, there are often testimonials from people it has purportedly worked for. *"I sent it to five of my friends, now I'm married to my crush!!"* This is to create the appearance that it works and diminish your doubts.
Pyramid schemes aren't identical to this but share a great many of the same motivational methods. The unverifiable promise of future riches if you stick with the program and recruit as many friends and family into it as you can.
The testimonials from members who are either within the small percentage who actually did profit (and are being misrepresented as typical) or were coached to misrepresent how much success they had.
>>79092244
Dogma can be further formulated though, but this is only to prevent it from changing, to PREVENT the understanding from changing. Not to give it a "fresh perspective".
Often as they are true believers that they will eventually be rich anyways and do not want friends and family who warned them away from participating to have the satisfaction of being right, members are only too happy to live outside their means while boasting to anybody who will listen how successful they've been by sticking to the program.
This brings us to Abrahamic religions. You might say "hold on, don't you mean all religion?" I once thought this as well but remember that Eastern religions exist and by and large do not adhere to this formula unless you make it so loose and general as to be meaningless.
Abrahamic religions adhere to the formula described so far perfectly, and even improve on it in some areas. Christianity moreso than Judaism, and Islam/Mormonism moreso than Christianity.
1. Founder claims world is ending imminently (1 John 2:18, Matthew 10:23, Matthew 16:28, Matthew 24:34)
2. He wants you to sell or give away your belongings ( Luke 14:33, Matthew 19:21, Luke 18:22)
3. He wants you to cut off family who interfere, and leave your home/job to follow him (Matt. 10:35-37, Luke 14:26, Matthew 19:29)
4. Unverifiable reward if you believe (Heaven, i.e. the carrot)
5. Unverifiable punishment if you disbelieve (Hell, i.e. the stick)
6. Sabotages the critical thinking faculties you might otherwise use to remove it (Proverbs 3:5, 2 Corinthians 5:7, Proverbs 14:12, Proverbs 28:26)
7. Invisible trickster character who fabricates apparent evidence to the contrary in order to lead you astray from the true path (Satan)
8. Targets children and the emotionally/financially vulnerable for recruitment (sunday schools, youth group, teacher led prayer, prison ministries, third world missions)
Islam goes a step further with additions like the promise of guaranteed passage to paradise for those who die fighting infidels, which begets aggressive expansionism. Judaism has the reward/punishment dynamic but not much else, sort of a prototype for what came later.
Of course groups structured like this are already known about. The modern word for them is "cult". In this case specifically a doomsday/messianic cult. While Christianity today no longer includes many of those practices (like requiring new converts to sell their stuff, rendering them materially dependent on the group and less likely to leave if they experience doubts) that's because once a cult grows to the point where membership numbers are sufficient to guarantee long term survival, policies that were necessary to retain converts early on can be jettisoned (as they make tempting ammo for critics anyways)
Mormonism is much younger than Christianity, and so has not yet jettisoned many of the cult-like practices, which is why the general Christian public often identifies it as a cult. Scientology is younger than Mormonism and accordingly is still an obvious, full blown cult.
Despite their doctrinal differences, religions of this type can always be identified by the *formula* they share. In the same way that, even if nobody receives the Nigerian prince 419 email anymore, they can still tell that when a Dutch dignitary being exiled "needs help moving his fortune out of the country" and "some of it can be yours for a relatively slight transfer fee", it's still the same type of scam but with changed details.
Likewise, for every religion which uses this formula there is an unverifiable future reward if you join and don't leave (Heaven, being carried away by UFOs, whatever) an unverifiable punishment if you don't join or ever leave (left behind by UFOs as the Earth is destroyed, sent to Hell, etc.) a short term time limit to add urgency, both to convert yourself and to go evangelize so you can save as many other people as possible before "the end", testimonials from people who supposedly prayed and were healed, received a financial windfall or whatever else, etc. etc. etc.
It can be difficult or impossible for people in the religion to see it in this way. Aspects of how it's designed help put it as far beyond doubt as possible such that it's the *absolute last* institution that a believer would *ever* suspect as fraudulent.
As a result, describing it as an unusually successful end of the world cult will sound to them either like crazy talk or a deliberate attempt to be hurtful. They will see the verses supplied above as being misconstrued, because there is an "in-religion" rationale for each of them which the true believer feels is the actual meaning.
For instance, in Scientology there is a disconnection policy which urges members to cut off family members who are trying to extricate them from the church. We all know why. But the reason they give, which members take at face value, is that being around people low on the tone scale will inhibit their movement up the bridge, the Scientologist equivalent of spiritual growth.
So it goes for the Biblical verses I supplied. Someone still on the inside will perceive, interpret, and feel completely differently about them than a skeptic, even while being able to identify the true purpose of the exact same practices in religions they are not a part of. You can only see what stuff like that's really intended for *from the outside*.
That's all. Hope this was helpful.
What is the holy spirit?
>>79092283
Someone should remind him about the character of King James
>James's nickname for Buckingham was "Steenie," after St. Stephen who was said to have had "the face of an angel."[13] Speaking to the Privy Council in 1617, James declared:
>You may be sure that I love the Earl of Buckingham more than anyone else, and more than you who are here assembled. I wish to speak in my own behalf and not to have it thought to be a defect, for Jesus Christ did the same, and therefore I cannot be blamed. Christ had John, and I have George.[14]
>In a letter to Buckingham in 1623, the King ends with, "God bless you, my sweet child and wife, and grant that ye may ever be a comfort to your dear father and husband."[15] Buckingham reciprocated the King's affections, writing back to James: "I naturally so love your person, and adore all your other parts, which are more than ever one man had," "I desire only to live in the world for your sake" and "I will live and die a lover of you." Restoration of Apethorpe Hall in 2004–8 revealed a previously unknown passage linking his bedchamber with that of James.[16] Buckingham himself provides evidence that he gave in to the King's passion, writing to James many years later that he had pondered: "whether you loved me now…better than at the time which I shall never forget at Farnham, where the bed's head could not be found between the master and his dog'.[17]
>>79092072
To protect their homeland, big difference between working with commies and being infiltrated and controlled by the KGB in 2016.
>>79092084
Peter had a special authority, and there has always been a figure with a special role and authority.
And without that figure, not even you know what is, for example, a valid council or not. What is part from the Church or not. Without that final authority all your dogmatic system crumbles and end in complete chaos.
See
>>79091226
Christ does not say the word Trinity, but there is a thing called tradition which you seem to ignore.
There are not several churches. There is no "sparse" Church. There is one Truth and one Church, not several local "truths".
>>79090826
] Patriarchal locum tenens (acting Patriarch) Metropolitan Sergius (Stragorodsky, 1887–1944) issued a declaration in 1927, accepting the Soviet authority over the church as legitimate, pledging the church's cooperation with the government and condemning political dissent within the church.[65]
Even the head of polish orthodox church was an agent.
>>79092244
That is completely irrelevant to what I have said.
>>79092072
Don't you know? Americans obviously know more about the history of European Christianity than Europeans do :^)
>>79092645
fuck off schlomo
>>79092649
God's third hypostasis, which inspires (literally "in spirited") prophets and Scripture and transforms the bread and wine and that sort of thing. God does all things from the Father, by the Son and in the Holy Spirit..
>>79092893
>>79092649
The spirit or part of God which according to the bible NT will grant you more power to heal, cast out demons, and communicate with the creator with more ease. Just how you can get spirits of wisdom or understanding and spirits of demons that move you to do sin you can also aquire the holy spirit a true sign that the creator has chosen you to be part of his flock.
>>79092687
>Peter had a special authority
No he didn't, what are you talking about. He didn't even preside over the Council of Jerusalem, James did.
>Without that final authority all your dogmatic system crumbles and end in complete chaos.
Is that so? then why is it, apart from formulaic differences on Christ's nature, the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox still have exactly the same dogma despite being split for much longer than the schism the Eastern Orthodox had with the Latins?
>>79092687
>Christ does not say the word Trinity, but there is a thing called tradition which you seem to ignore.
Holy Tradition is nothing more nor less than the dogma Christ imparted.
The term "Trinity" is not any dogmatic development, it is a term coined to protect dogma from heretics who try to twist it. That is all the term is there for. The concept it describes was imparted by Christ and the understanding of it has not changed since (among the Orthodox that is).
>>79093085
nice strawman, you didn't just say "Christians are wrong", you made some outrageous claims about it
also nice projection with the Sonic book
>>79093163
I think this might work for nofap
>>79092885
Cult. The problem is that you think it's a pejorative.
>>79093163
>double holy afterwards
Actually they are sinning bad by not fucking.
>>79093415
>>79092935
>>79093114
How do I know if I've acquired the holy spirit?
Enough of the Russian shill threads
>>79093193
You will see many times how Peter is given special treatment and treated with particular respect and authority
> the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox still have exactly the same dogma despite being split for much longer than the schism the Eastern Orthodox had with the Latins?
That is just a side effect. Their monstrosity, their schism, has made it impossible for them to determine what is a valid council and what isn't. That is a consequence of wanting to reject councils that should be completely valid in order to keep the shism. Because of that there are no councils anymore. Not because it is pure, but because nobody knows how things work anymore.
>>79092757
>consecrated before the Russian Revolution
>but he's a KGB infiltrator guys
Whether he was wrong or right, it had nothing to do with him being a covert puppet. He said it to stop the state from killing Christians, which he reconciled with his conscience through Romans 13.
>>79091767
So what was the point in Peter special status amog others? What Jesues meant in matthew 16,19?
>>79093291
>>79093522
Obvious false flags
http://www.cringechannel.com/2013/06/27/video-how-to-not-defend-atheism/
>>79092508
Your analysis is valid (from an external perspective) however the religion itself is also true. Anyone who has received the Holy Spirit or spoken to Jesus will have verified confirmation.
>1. Founder claims world is ending imminently (1 John 2:18, Matthew 10:23, Matthew 16:28, Matthew 24:34)
It means be on the look out. Don't stop following Jesus out of becoming disheartened, or uncertain.
>2. He wants you to sell or give away your belongings ( Luke 14:33, Matthew 19:21, Luke 18:22)
Read the book of Revelations. This is not the case. "I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown."
If you wish to follow Jesus fervently, you can sell everything though. Directed tithing however is sufficient.
>3. He wants you to cut off family who interfere, and leave your home/job to follow him (Matt. 10:35-37, Luke 14:26, Matthew 19:29)
If you wish to follow Jesus fervently you can do these things. The point of that scripture relating to family is more related to all the people in your life that do not live righteously. Jesus directs one to give them instruction and to disassociated from them if they won't change.
>4. Unverifiable reward if you believe (Heaven, i.e. the carrot)
You are given according to your works.
>5. Unverifiable punishment if you disbelieve (Hell, i.e. the stick)
>6. Sabotages the critical thinking faculties you might otherwise use to remove it (Proverbs 3:5, 2 Corinthians 5:7, Proverbs 14:12, Proverbs 28:26)
This is more along the lines of follow Gods rules, not your own opinion
>7. Invisible trickster character who fabricates apparent evidence to the contrary in order to lead you astray from the true path (Satan)
Satan is indeed real.
>8. Targets children and the emotionally/financially vulnerable for recruitment (sunday schools, youth group, teacher led prayer, prison ministries, third world missions)
>2016
>talking about this nonsense
utterly embarrassing
>>79092785
No, it actually is. A Pope cannot say, "I no longer approve of this, it's not dogma," if something is continuously taught as dogma.
>but Popes can't do that!
So they don't have freewill?
>>79093595
>>79093595
>Enough of the Russian shill threads
THIS
>>79085811
>Redpill me on (((protestants))).
You can think of protestants as a sort of "decentralized Christianity." There are a thousand and one Protestant churches, each with an amazing amount of variation. The Anglicans for example are pretty much an exact copy of the Catholic church but in English; while churches like the Pentecostals believe in pseudo-pagan shit like snake handling rituals and speaking in tongues. The only thing that groups all these churches together is a rejection of papal authority (due to corruption), rejection of Transubstantiation, and believe that the only true Christian authority is the Bible.
>Are they good or bad?
Some are bugfuck insane (see speaking with tongues) but most are normal. Some are super-conservative (compared to the Catholic Church), and others are far more liberal. It all depends.
However, there is a good deal of evidence that the "Protestant work ethic" is a real thing and that it lead to the creation of modern capitalism. Also an extremely large number of Nobel Prize are Protestants.
>why they suck Israel's cock?
Some denominations believe that modern Jews are the same as the old testament hebrews, and believe in interpretations of certain Bible passages that modern day Israel belongs to them.
>why almost every president of US was protestant except one even US is half Catholics?
For most of US history Protestants were a super majority. Catholicism has only increased from immigration in the last 100 years.
this is completely man-made nonsense
>>79093867
>>79093576
You've been received into the Orthodox Church
>>79093638
>You will see many times how Peter is given special treatment and treated with particular respect and authority
We give special treatment and respect to our Ecumenical Patriarch, doesn't mean he is, in office, anything beyond a bishop.
>>79093871
>So they don't have freewill?
not if speaking ex-cathedra
>>79093875
>>79093748
He is giving Peter the authority of a bishop. An authority he later gives the other Apostles (Matthew 18:18).
>>I don't think you understand my point. Something hasn't got to be explicitly written word by word in a quote from Jesus for it to be valid.
By the way, it's very easy to say that tradition is nothing more nor less than the dogma Christ imparted. But saying what is the dogma Christ imparted isn't so easy.
>>79093933
Thanks for the non-hostile response.
>>79094205
>>79093716
>becouse people cannot be forced to cooperate with KGB
Gleb Yakunin, a critic of the Moscow Patriarchate who was one of those who briefly gained access to the KGB archive documents in the early 1990s, argued that the Moscow Patriarchate was "practically a subsidiary, a sister company of the KGB".[34] Critics charge that the archives showed the extent of active participation of the top ROC hierarchs in the KGB efforts overseas.[
What is the difference between Orthodox and Catholic?
>>79093862
See:
>It can be difficult or impossible for people in the religion to see it in this way. Aspects of how it's designed help put it as far beyond doubt as possible such that it's the *absolute last* institution that a believer would *ever* suspect as fraudulent.
>As a result, describing it as an unusually successful end of the world cult will sound to them either like crazy talk or a deliberate attempt to be hurtful. They will see the verses supplied above as being misconstrued, because there is an "in-religion" rationale for each of them which the true believer feels is the actual meaning.
>For instance, in Scientology there is a disconnection policy which urges members to cut off family members who are trying to extricate them from the church. We all know why. But the reason they give, which members take at face value, is that being around people low on the tone scale will inhibit their movement up the bridge, the Scientologist equivalent of spiritual growth.
>So it goes for the Biblical verses I supplied. Someone still on the inside will perceive, interpret, and feel completely differently about them than a skeptic, even while being able to identify the true purpose of the exact same practices in religions they are not a part of. You can only see what stuff like that's really intended for *from the outside*.
You've provided all of the in-religion rationales for those verses. Well done. But I already accounted for that in the post you replied to.
>>79094085
The idea that the term "from the chair" gives special power to a Papal declaration only started in the 19th Century, it has zero precedent in any prior century.
I'm guess it was a neat way fix all the problems stemming from Papal infallibility, by making it so Pope's are infallible but only if they used a special phrase (thankfully, no Pope before then knew he had to use this phrase to be infallible).
>>79094323
>>79094071
>We give special treatment and respect to our Ecumenical Patriarch, doesn't mean he is, in office, anything beyond a bishop.
Special tratment and respect go beyond having a fancier hat and addressing a person with fancier words.
>>79093576
>How do I know if I've acquired the holy spirit
The Holy Spirit will help and guide you to be righteous. You will know that you have it if you find yourself inclining more towards that direction then you are used to. You must open the door to it by trying to do these things whole heartedly on your own.
>>79093871
Again, that is irrelevant to what I have said.
>>79094219
That's right, but if it's dogma not elaborated upon fully in Scripture (all dogma is indicated in Scripture at the least), it will be by the early Church Fathers, there has to be something mentioning it within the first four hundred of years of Christianity, at the maximum, and something indicating or presuming it in Scripture.
>>79094458
I think you will soon discover people don't care about the date associated to terms. that is something typical from atheists.
The date of those terms changes nothing. The statements in the Creed are not only valid since the Creed was created.
>>79087155
>My own priest will not perform a marriage for a couple who are not ready to have children
Suddenly, from nowhere...
>>79094414
If you manage to speak to Jesus then you will have no doubt about the validity of Christianity.
>>79094804
Supposing it's Muhammad instead?
>>79087564
>Well if you expect God to forgive you
I dindu nuffin tho
>>79094372
Yeah, I heard a lot more people who saw secret Vatican archives showing Jesus was married.
Are the Orthodox ok with Anime?
>>79094760
It doesn't have to be elaborated upon fully in scripture. The dogma doesn't contradict scripture, but it doesn't have to be just an explanation of scripture.
How much is considered "early Church"? Why 400 years? Why not 401? Or 402? Or 398? Or 300 years and 4.635 months? Did the people you consider to be early Church Fathers say anything about who is and isn't an early Church Father?
>>79094381
See the Catholic FAQ in the pastebin in the OP, for starters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHZtbnaXuGk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxcOv4zPoVo
>>79094912
You just can't accept the truth. As I said even in Poland the head of Orthodox church was an agent, and Poland was a much more "liberal" country than Soviet Union.
>>79094659
>>79094775
>>79094828
>>79094866
>>79094996
>>79095051
>>79095093
>>79095263
Gotta be really butthurt to project all the typical atheist crap on Christians. Get triggered, cunt. Your messiah self-identifies as a "cultural Christian".
>>79095388
I'm not an atheist. Whoops, now all your material is useless
>>79094205
>>79094323
wow.
even more damning when you take the fact that sbc churches are autonomous into consideration, instead of having a centralized/hierarchical authority over them.
>>79094769
The date of the term matters when the term itself is seen as significant instead of just a description.
The Nicene Creed was a formulation of beliefs, a description of what was always there. In Catholic dogma, the term itself is significant, not just a description of always present beliefs, but a term that always has to be invoked. So if this term was coined in the 19th Century, and previous Popes didn't know they had to use it, yeah, it's kind of an issue, unless you want to say there was something else they could have done which was equivalent.
>>79095026
They literally worship waifus, but they must be drawn from canonical Byzantine standards.
>>79093867
>>79094007
>this is completely man-made nonsense
It is real. If you manage to speak to Jesus then you will have no doubt about the validity of Christianity.
If you are looking for a starting point, read John 20:29 - "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
There is a point at which you have to believe what someone is telling you.
Perhaps the story of Jesus is so preposterous as to inflame your skepticism and test your faith.
If you want to speak to Jesus, Have Faith, Pray, and ask to speak with him.
>>79095535
Don't you have a goat to fuck?
>>79095650
>If you want to speak to Jesus, Have Faith, Pray, and ask to speak with him.
This is also how Mormons confirm the truth of Mormonism: https://www.mormon.org/faq/mormon-faith
>>79095834
Not a Muslim either, keep trying
>>79085246
God will recognize your sacrifice
>>79095631
Byzantines were original weeaboos.
>>79095627
Terms are always terms, words that reference something. What the term from the 19th century references already existed, and EXACTLy the same rules applied.
You make this magical separation where everything you accept is a "description of what was already there", and what you don't accept is "a significant term", some absurdity you just made up, since a term is always a term, a construct used to convey an idea.
>>79095854
I'm pretty certain mormonism was created to identify polygamist male Christians.
>>79095915
(((uNdRkAFZ)))
Coincidence detected.
>>79096269
Not a Jew either, keep guessing.
>>79096390
(((Not a Jew)))
>>79095191
He was a collaborator due to threat, not an agent strictly speaking. We've had those in our ranks since ancient Rome, and there was a big controversy when Christianity was legalized whether they should be allowed to be reconciled. Saying most of the clergy in the Russian Church, because of this, are agents, is like saying most of the Latin clergy are child rapists.
And Russia was much more stubborn. The Church in Russia was so unwilling to collaborate, that the USSR replaced it with the "Renovated Orthodox Church," confiscating almost all her parishes and imprisoning most dissenting clergy (the "Renovated" Church allowed things like bishops to marry and divorce and remarry and all that jazz). But the Russian people hated it, and during WWII, when Stalin realized he needed the Church, he legalized the old one, gave the parishes back, released the clergy; all the clergy that defected had to do the penance of Apostates.
>>79077631
Nice to see you on /pol/
