Let's have a discussion about biblical sex, marriage, and divorce.
Below is a summary of what the Bible has to say about the subject
**A wife commits adultery if she has sex with any man other than her husband but a man only commits adultery if he has sex with another man's wife (Leviticus 18:20)
**A man is not forbidden to have sex with an eligible woman not his wife, anywhere, unless she is a prostitute
**Sex is the act that begins marriage and no ceremony is required unless voluntarily agreed to (Genesis 3:16; Exodus 22:16; Deuteronomy 22:28-29)
**Premarital sex only occurs when the man and woman are engaged to marry. The sin isn't the sex, it's the violation of the engagement agreement and the reason it does not initiate marriage is the woman is not eligible to marry until the end of the engagement period (Numbers 30:2-5)
**If a man has sex with an eligible virgin they are married (Genesis 2:24)
**If the virgin agrees to marry the guy (willingly has sex) without her father's approval, he has the authority to annul the marriage after the fact (Numbers 30:5)
**A man is not limited to only one wife (Genesis 2:24)
**The consent of the virgin is not required for her marriage (Genesis 2:24; Exodus 21:7-10; Deuteronomy 22:28-29; Deuteronomy 23:10-14)
**Rape of a married woman (including the engaged virgin) is a death penalty offense Deuteronomy 22:22-27)
**Rape of a virgin not engaged is the consummation of her marriage (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)
**Rape of a slave purchased for marriage is a punishable offense, but not by the death penalty (Leviticus 19:20-22)
>>77922095
(cont)
**Rape of a woman who is not a virgin and not married is not a crime in the Law.
**Male homosexuality is a death-penalty offense (Leviticus 18:22)
**Male bestiality is a death penalty offense (Leviticus 18:23)
**Female bestiality is a death penalty offense (Leviticus 18:23)
**Female homosexuality is not forbidden anywhere.
**Female-female sex is presumed within polygynous marriage by the incest statutes (Leviticus 18:17-18)
**Jesus defined "lust" as committing adultery in the heart. Adultery requires a married woman so a man can only "lust" after a married (or engaged) woman (Matthew 5:28)
**Nowhere in Scripture is any unmarried woman forbidden from working as a prostitute, with the exception of being a cult prostitute (forbidden as idolatry- Deuteronomy 23:17)
**Only with 1st Corinthians 6:15-16 is the use of a prostitute forbidden and then only to Christian men. Prior to that there was nothing in the Law to forbid it.
**Divorce was originally forbidden (Genesis 2:24; Matthew 19:8) but Moses permitted men to divorce their wives for "indecency" (Deuteronomy 24:1) which Jesus defined as adultery, incest or idolatrous sexual acts (Matthew 5:31-32; Matthew 19:9). In 1st Corinthians 7:10-15, Christ restored the original standard of no divorce for any reason for His servants married to each other and Paul allowed divorce in mixed marriages when the unbelieving spouse departed and would not live with the believing spouse.
**The context for every passage on submission of wives in the New Testament is Genesis 3:16, which says "he shall rule over you." God does not change.
**The curse of Genesis 3:16 is where women got hypergamy: it's not an evolved trait, it's from God because in declaring that a woman's husband would rule over her, God gave her a desire to be ruled.
>>77922095
In summary
Notice that nowhere in this passage or in Exodus 22:16-17 or in Deuteronomy 22:28-29 is there any mention of a ceremony, rite, ritual or anything other than the sex that is mentioned here. And they are married because that is the law on marriage.
The Patristic church fathers, writing in 300-400 AD, were of the opinion that sex was evil and a sin even within marriage unless specifically for the purpose of procreation. They denied that sex had anything to do with marriage, rather than marriage was all about consent. They later decided that Christians were only married when the church blessed the union, which occurred at a ceremony of marriage officiated by the church’s representative, the priest.
This has been so set in traditional and cultural stone that nobody even looks at what the Bible actually says any more, which is tragic. However… Because Scripture says the woman is married when she loses her virginity, when confronted with a non-virgin the only real question to ask is “who is her husband?”
All non-virgins are married to someone, unless or until:
1. Her marriage is annulled by her father
2. Her husband dies
3. Her unbelieving husband abandons her
4. She commits adultery and her unbelieving husband divorces her.
If the non-virgin doesn’t fall into one of those categories, she is MARRIED. Not because she had a wedding ceremony but because she gave her virginity to her husband and nothing has happened to end the marriage.
you seem mentally unstable. why are you filling your mind with filth? WWJD? be on 4chan?
>>77922095
The bible says if you have lust for someone you've committed adultery.
>>77922095
give up on it, the bible just makes you retarded. believe what you from it, but its a book for humans, written by humans.
>>77924007
Adultery for a man is a man having sex with a married women, irregardless of the man's martial status. Adultery for a married women is having sex with any man.
You're referencing Matthew 5:28 and when Jesus spoke this he was directly referencing David and Bathsheba
>>77924545
If you have sex with her in your mind you've basically violated her, these thoughts are for your wife only
If I have sex with my gf and marry her eventually is it still a sin?
>>77924966
No, the bible says if you lay with a Virgin you have to marry her
>>77924966
Well actually no it kind of is a sin, you're not supposed to have sex outside of marriage but if you do you have to be married to each other.
>>77924862
Lust, when David saw Bathsheba from his palace, he knew right there in his heart he wanted her and he was going to have her even though she was married to his good friend and faithful servant. I'm assuming you know the rest of the story. This is the man God said was after his own heart and lust to take something that was not his was what Jesus was warning about.
>>77924966
Well this is what i'm getting it. She may already be married to another man and thus the actual sin is adultery
>>77925360
All of us should avoid sexual thoughts of people, if you wish to think of people sexually and commit sin with them in your mind you may continue to.
>>77925171
This is the part that really riles up Christians- a woman who is not married and not a virgin has agency and she must consent before a man can marry her. That means a man may desire to marry her (and I agree that the man should not have sex with a woman absent a desire to marry her) but until she consents to the marriage the sex they have is just sex. It's not forbidden and neither does it make them married. I state that in contradistinction to virgins: Have sex with an eligible virgin and she's your wife, but if a non-virgin wants to keep things in “test drive” mode for a while, she has that right. It isn’t sin for either her or the man.
>>77922095
your first mistake was picking up the jewish holy book
>christians
>old testament
>>77923291
>>77925491
>>77925360
>>77924545
why can't you answer simple questions?
>>77926143
Came here to say this.
OP do you understand what is meant by "new covenant"? Wait, of course you don't - you're a prottie.
So if lust starts in the heart and it's only possible for married woman, how do I stop jerking off to married women?
Also, is it okay to want to fap to people who are in relationships?
>>77926361
>For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
>>77925491
It is a sin
>>77926143
The Old Testament is still relevant to Christians, unless you're one of those fake ones who deny genesis because "it's just an allegory"
>>77926693
No, it's never good to masturbate. If you want to stop masturbating just have a faith in Christ, this is what helped me quit porn and masturbation
>>77927135
>and that's why Christ refused to heal on the sabbath
Except he didn't
>>77927649
How do you get over the blue balls pain and increased aggressiion/irritability though?
I've been fapping since I was like 13 (26 now) and the longest I went without was a week but usually I max out at 3 days without. So it doesn't take long before I start wanting to beat the shit out of things and uggos look attractive.
>>77927780
>Placing authority of extra-biblical Pharisaic traditions over Scripture.
>>77927982
A faith in Christ is what helps me, if I start to have in appropriate thoughts about people I see on the street I just look away and distract myself, I personally just sing the national anthem in my head. When you learn to control your lust it gets better, I just naturally look away in disgust now when I see girls dressed sexually without even realising what I'm doing. Sometimes I see a cute girl and think wow she looks nice but I try not to go beyond that, if I do I distract myself right away.
>>77927982
Honestly, meditation and making a conscious effort not to fantasize. I had the exact same problems as you with nofap. I already have a shitload of testosterone (lots of body hair, very deep voice) so when I quit fapping I just became super aggressive and strongly attracted to ugly women. Meditation will calm you down so much.
>>77928842
Do you intend on marriage or lifelong celibacy?
I'm autistic (actually diagnosed, and long before I ever fapped ) and I need to come to the decision as to whether I'm even fit for marriage
>>77928495
>>77928842
Okay, and what do I do about getting random boners in public as well? It's one of those cases where just from friction from my shorts before I know it I'm full mass.
>>77928842
It's interesting, I had no problem with aggression or finding people more attractive, I stayed pretty much the same I just felt better and had more energy in the gym.
>>77929078
You can be autistic but still be perfectly functional, I know someone who is obviously autistic enough that they won't be able to do more advanced careers or struggled in school but he's a janitor he does fine he makes money he can take care of himself. There's different levels of autism you can't put them all under one umbrella
>>77929347
I have asperger's and nonverbal learning disorder. I'm sucessful career wise as an engineer but I fear that I simply don't have the basic social skills needed to be a good father. I think I need to seriously consider a celibate life before I jump into looking for a wife.
>>77929153
It doesn't happen to me really, I would avoid wearing shorts because you don't see it as much in long pants, if it's friction try and change your underwear boxer briefs keep everything in place so nothing shifts around which could hide it better.
If it happens try and distract yourself, sing a song in your head and don't think of anything else.
And my secret for getting rid of erections is to tickle my elbow, it makes it go away for some reason I read it online somewhere once and it works for me.
>>77929487
This is why we have marriages, we aren't perfect individually but if we combine ourselves we work together to raise the child. This is why children from a family with a mother and father do better than in single parent households.
>Let's enforce the rules placed by a jew on a stick that lied by claiming he would return before his first apostles died
I'm sure this will get you somewhere faggots
>>77922095
>>77922141
Where are you getting all this? Marriage and sex are definitely intertwined but I can't find anything directly stating what you say. Deuteronomy 22 sets out standards for dealing with forced pregnancy/rape, slander, cuckoldry, adultery.
Deut 22:13-21 deals with a man slandering his new wife after having sex, it prevents a guy screwing a girl and trying to ditch her. On the other hand if a girl isn't a virgin but claims to be one, this is obviously cuckoldry, as she's claiming maidenhood but is a liar. She's lying because she's fucking other guys and trying to cuck the husband. The end result is her death and his release from her.
Deut 22:22-24 deals with adultery.
Deut 22:25-27 deals with engaged virgins who are raped, since she has a husband already the offender is killed. This one sucks since it could cuck the husband and force a rape baby upon the girl. Of course, they could conceivably ditch the baby or cause a miscarriage.
Deut 22:28-29 forces a rapist to marry his victim and pay the bride price to the father. She's lost her virginity, could be pregnant and the man now has to marry. He can't divorce her meaning he's either going to have to run away or stick it out and provide for her. This also conceivably deals with false accusations. If they were having consensual sex, the man ends up in the same scenario whereas in the city you know it's consensual or not due to her resistance. This prevents a girl having "regrets" and trying to get the man killed because of her shame and pressure from the townspeople.
>>77929857
I'm really tired of this Jew on a stick meme, do you know how much suffering Jesus went through when he was crucified?
>>77929892
don't bother, OP is a fedora tipper pretending to be a bible scholar to bait people
>>77929892
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 could mean rape or just two people who have sex, depending on the translation you use of course but the KJV uses lie with her, they also say it's forbidden to lay with a man like a woman. So does that mean it's forbidden to rape a man or have sex with him?
I'm going to personally say that it's meant to say two people who have sex with each other outside of wedlock but if anyone has an argument against this id be happy to hear it maybe I'm wrong.
>>77929892
I'm not making the claim that marriage and sex aren't intertwined. Don;t know how you drew that conclusion from the summary of laws. I'm making the case that sex is the act of marriage. Because of this and the church's teaching of false doctrine, many people are committing adultery unknowingly and its a very easily solved problem
>>77926163
>>77930573
why can't you answer my question?
>>77930573
>For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
>and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one flesh.
>>77930681
he doesn't want to realize that 4chan is anti-Christian and no self respecting Christian should spend much time here at all. I need to leave this place
>>77930951
It is anti Christian but what other place can you have Christian discussions? Other forums are too cliquey if you disagree with them you get a bank at least here different denominations can have discussions, also there's a few people here who seem to seriously believe the bible and try to follow it, my experience shows that most Christians deny even half the bible is true
>write a book
>say some stupid shit
>billions people live by the book and want others to live like they are living
why is this?
>>77931197
Even if you don't believe in God you have to admit the bible does set out a good moral code for people to follow and if even a quarter of the population followed the bible things would be much better
>>77922095
Funny how you conveniently leave out the word fornication, as well as what the bible says about it in your rationalization of degeneracy.
You are breaking the second commandment.
>>77932457
Does posting memes on 4chan violate the second commandment (graven images)?
I've seriously thought about this, if you really take it literally, then any and all images of living things are violating it
>>77932457
*9th
>>77932457
Funny of you to think i wouldn't have thought of this before posting. The modern translation of the word fornication comes from the Greek word of "porneia". Porneia in Greek times refers to adultery, incest or idolatrous sexual acts
>>77933068
tip that fedora harder
atheists who study the bible in-depth to "Debunk" or twist it are the worst kind
>>77922095
just come out of the closet and say you hate God and anything to do with God.
>>77922095
kys
>>77933211
I can't stand when atheists try and pull a "gotcha" on you, yes I'm aware of the rules in the bible what are you trying to prove?
My absolute favourite is when they tell me I can't wear mixed clothes when the only one that's forbidden in deuteronomy is linen and wool, which is such a rare mix to begin with I doubt anyone on 4chan has a piece of clothing with this mix
>>77933068
You sound like a theologian. You can't see the forest for the trees. Regardless of how you want to obfuscate the meaning in translation, it is irrefutable that God's word has ever condoned premarital sex, in any version.
>>77931197
because If you don't read the owners manual you leave yourself open to any bs someone tells you.
Read the manual (Bible).
>>77931420
amen.
>>77932555
Can anyone answer this? It's something that's really bothered me recently
is photography and ANY image of a living thing a violation of the second commandment?
I've been reading about the Amish and mennonites and they actually believe this and forbid photography
>>77922095
/pol/ is the board of Kek.
Jesus is a false god
>>77933720
>4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Google dictionary says a graven image is a idol or a representation of God. Maybe what it means is don't use anything from the heavens, from the earth, from the waters as an idol and don't pray to it. Basically don't use anything as an idol?
>>77934617
see this.
This has me very concerned.
is it simply that these kek worshippers are wrong because they deny god, or is it deeper, is it that posting/viewing memes at all , even for fun is a form of idolatry
>>77934617
This is an example of graven image, using the image of a frog and worshipping it.
>>77933466
the forbiddening of wearing mix cloth has to do with separating the Jews from the practices of the pagan tribes before they entered Canaan.
For my point refer to >>77930573
>>77934705
Yeah, the traditional interpretation is actually treating something as a representation of God (there were whole wars over what this means - see the Iconoclasts in Byzantium)
but sometimes I think deeper and wonder if it really means creating ANY representation of a living thing at all. This would implicate all modern visual media (TV, Internet, etc) as INHERENTLY evil and this is really starting to ring true.
>>77934750
Are memes meant to be a representation of God? Would that mean we can't draw God? Does this mean that Michelangelo painting is breaking this commandment?
>>77933211
If you are a Christian why AREN'T you studying the Bible in depth?
>>77934785
That's what I'm talking about.
Is it just the worshipping that's against the 2nd commandment, or is even making/posting/viewing images of animals a sin? (this would include consuming or creating TV, games or any form of media)
>this is my book
>the book is written by God
>you should do what the book says
>I know that it was written by God because it says so in the book
>I know the book is right because it was written by God
People ACTUALLY BELIEVE THIS SHIT
HOW
HOW
WHY
WHICH
Are you all insane?
>>77927450
Jesus means we no longer need to follow the old testament.
So the ones who still follow it are the fake ones.
>>77934949
I suppose it would depend on your definition of graven image, the Oxford English Dictionary defines it as a representation of God, usually used for worship.
Sometimes this can be a problem depending on your translation of the bible, I know the KJV says if you're circumcised Christ will profit you nothing, but modern translations say if you let yourself be circumcised, so does this mean getting yourself circumcised is bad but if you had no choice and had it done as a baby it's fine?
>>77935187
>Bible is the word of God
>Chapters in the New Testament are literally named after the people who wrote them
>>77933720
No. Pictures, sculptures, etc. are all fine (though they may be cursed which is a different topic). It's a matter of whether you idolize them or not. If you love a picture of pepe but have no love for God, that's breaking the second commandment.
>>77929892
He knows what he is saying isn't true. Don't feed the faggots.
>>77935297
I was mostly interested in this topic becuase as I said I was reading about mennonites and found that they actually believe what I'm saying and forbid photogaphy or any images
http://teacherweb.ftl.pinecrest.edu/snyderd/APHG/Unit%203/Amish.htm
and it just made me think, because a world without images at all would prevent a lot of degeneracy, of course it's practically impossible now
>>77935270
It's still relevant because it has our origin stories in genesis for example. Ignoring the Old Testament is why there are Christians who believe the bible isn't real and just a metaphor.
>>77935044
I don't think people usually worship drawings or movies, some might like the people who dress up in Star Wars costumes and basically formed a cult around the movie.
>>77929976
about the same as the thousands of others that were crucified.
>>77935688
Relevant, but we don't have to follow the laws.
>>77935557
It's a good point to bring up, it's very clear that depictions of God is forbidden so would this mean we can't draw certain Egyptian hieroglyphics?
>>77935755
That's what I said, it's still relevant to us
>>77935746
So because others were crucified it means jesus didn't suffer?
>>77922095
Sick old testament bro
A lot of these are mostly old jewish laws that christians don't follow.
>>77937541
Is it a bad thing for Christians to follow them? Or is it just we don't have to?
>>77930951
>>77931143
why do you mog yourself down in this filth? I really can't understand it - the ignorance speaks for itself! I know a bit about it all, I wouldn't be asking questions in this manner otherwise.
>>77937609
The argument is that a lot of the laws were from the kingdom of david, and since the kindom of david doesn't exist anymore the laws don't have to be followed
This video kind of explains it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDQQ0U8FHAE
>>77937908
I have nowhere else to go to have a discussion about my faith, even the churches here wouldn't accept me because I don't accept homosexual marriages, you know things are bad when 4chan is probably the best place to come for Christian discussion
>>77938143
So we don't have to, but we can if we want? There's no harm in following them?
>>77922095
After looking up these Bible verses you are clearly interpreting many of them purposely wrong and/or making up shit
>>77937908
I'll finally give you your undeserving response.
Have you provided anything to refute whats listed above? The ignorance is on you.
O Canada! Our home and native land!
>>77938201
A lot of the laws are moral in nature. It's not a problem if you personally follow them.
>>77922095
So you mean "JEWS GET IN HERE!"? Seriously all this stuff about sex and marriage is from the Pentateuch this is ridiculous. My money is that you're an atheist or Muslim trying to bait Christians when you fundamentally don't understand the religion.
>>77937908
Are you a Christian yourself? If so then the same question applies to you. Why are you here then?
But I suspect you're an atheist just trying to get Christians off this board because you don't like them.
>>77938374
You mean
the maple leaf our emblem dear
The maple leaf forever
God save our queen and Heaven bless
The maple leaf forever
>>77938637
I'm still learning and reading the bible everyday so I wasn't sure about this, sometimes it's hard to find answers online because they just say "it's a metaphor" or something
>>77938353
no as I don't regard the old testament as anything better than a historical document.
how do you cope with the puss you consume on 4chan? I am generally interested - the WWJD concept would keep me away if physics and generall bio education had not changed me. the curiculum is based on findings, not assumoptipns. I understand there are gaps. you are trying to prove an old concept but what I miss is the spark genious scientists find when they advance over the level of educated literature.
>>77939351
The New Testament also opposes the same shit on 4chan, yet here you are. Clearly you're an "enlightened" atheist who is only here to piss off christians. Though I agree, OP is a complete retard
>>77939351
You just have to avoid a lot of threads, I don't go to kek threads for example because people are worshipping an idol which is wrong.
You can have good discussions sometimes, especially the history threads I enjoy but they usually get ruined by Nazi fetishists.
>>77939032
A lot of time the laws and stories surrounding the laws teach a lesson. The "metaphor" they were taking about could have been those lessons. Sometimes people can have trouble with word choice when talking about things they themselves have trouble understanding.
>>77939689
That's true, what I meant though was some people do literally believe the bible is false and it's a metaphor. Maybe I'm the one who's wrong but I take it literally
>>77926143
/thread
Post dank Christian memes here xD
>>77935187
https://youtube.com/watch?v=A0iDNLxmWVM
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Z0tyVdnIU9A
https://youtube.com/watch?v=dsbj7EN1Uzs
At least watch the first and the last video, and the first 30 minutes of the second one.
>>77922095
Way how does genesis 2:24 not limit a guy to one wife?
