I brought this up over a year ago, and it was met with hesitancy at best, resistance at worst. I was a staunch atheist for much of my youth. I am 33 now. But I noticed around 2008 that all of my friends who were atheists had become xealots. They were obsessed with arguing with Christians and took so much pride in "pointing out contradictions in the Bible" or "asking questions they can't answer." It began to make me really sick.
I won't go defending Christians here, as when I grew up in the 90's, they were the PC police. But I will say, Christians do more for people in need than any other group. And not just donating money.
But anyway, there is a direct slide from atheism into zealous atheism. And once they run out of Christians to attack, they have to have somethin to proselytize about, so it is a natural progression to liberalism and SJW shit. I really believe that 3rd wave feminism, SJW, the regressive left....all that shit stems from the atheism wave.
Human beings need spirituality. Whether or not you have had a spiritual experience, imperically, they do exist, and they are life changing. All cultures throughout human history have valued spirituality and the spiritual experience, often invoking it at a certain age with psychedelics, fasting, etc. It is a vital part of our survival, and it is being wiped out while we all accept the political ideology that is Islam.
The modern world discourages spirituality completely, and I really believe that this is unsustainable. People are more detached and uncompassionate than ever. Apathy is a plague. The powers that be know this. That's why they push for it. It keeps us docile.
>>77424181
Really dude? I am the one who made the anti-shill/slide general.
>>77389925
WEw
Too bad Islam is the mark of the beast set up by the world leaders. More and more people are converting to it and slaughtering those that oppose.
They are the group that turned their back on God and follow the NWO who will not deem them a threat, but a peaceful bunch and people are blindly agreeing.
The mark on the head is the prayer bump and mark of the right hand is the hand they use for eating. Sharia Law will be enforced to scare people into turning away from God and join the NWO.
Atheists' overzealousness will lead them further away from God and they will ultimately be left to face His wrath.
The third temple is almost built and they are now looking for priests the end times are near. Repent and accept God.
>>77424049
Who cares, atheism is declining. Fedoracucks are dying out childless and are being replaced by Mohammeds and Pedros.
>>77424049
I was thinking over this very issue yesterday, as a matter of fact. First, however, a confession. Not a pleasant one to make, considering how fucking embarrassing it is, but okay. I used to be one of those atheists. Back when I was maybe 18 or so. I'm 33 now, same as you.
One thing I learned early on is that Atheism is a reaction to a stance, not a stance in itself, but when they say that it ONLY refers to someone who doesn't believe in god(s), they're being fallacious or stupid. Plenty of other views follow from not believing in a god, just as they follow from NOT believing in one.
Basically, I learned that humanity has within itself certain aspects that are only satisfied by some kind of religious experience. That can be gained in the traditional way, by reverence to a God, or in ways darker and infinitely more pathetic.
>
Human beings need spirituality. Whether or not you have had a spiritual experience, imperically, they do exist, and they are life changing. All cultures throughout human history have valued spirituality and the spiritual experience, often invoking it at a certain age with psychedelics, fasting, etc. It is a vital part of our survival, and it is being wiped out while we all accept the political ideology that is Islam.
You don't need religion to have spiritual experiences. Keep your garbage ancient texts to yourself senpai.
THIS RETARD BELIEVES RELIGION MAKES YOU SYMPATHETIC HAHAHAHAHAHA
LOOK AT THIS FUCKING RETARDED NECKBEARD
>>77424049
Yeah well you guys fucked it up by rejecting the hippies. they were the spiritual reawakening.
>>77425288
>Keep your garbage ancient texts to yourself senpai.
I don't see any flaws in the teachings of Jesus Christ.
>>77425183
Where did you pill that bullshit information from, you white nigger? More and more people are growing up and realizing that religion is a cucking control system. It is literally white guilt. Anybody that follows any religion is a blue-pilled idiot.
>>77424049
The propagation of atheism is just one part of a general destruction and mockery of abstract ideals that can give people strength, morale, pride and meaning. Leftists pour scorn on religion, family, history, culture and tradition, and it's not a coincidence. These are all things that people can rally around and find strength and unity in. A society full of demoralised, alienated individuals kept in the thrall of consumerism, cynicism, narcissism and hedonism is easier to control.
>>77425194
I shy away from the word religious for obvious reasons. Although, the word spirituality has been hijacked by the New Agers, but they seem to be disappearing and have been replaced by vegans.
I believe that there are intangible aspects to life, things that are not physical. Science refuses to acknowledge this, because physics has become the new God. But there are always going to be questions science can not answer, and I think humans have an intuition for things and a capacity for love and compassion that not only gives birth to spirituality, but also makes it vital to our experience and existence.
>>77425581
Excellent post, Comrade! See you at the Fifth International next week, Da?
>>77425288
>>77425290
Where did I say religion? Can you people even read, or are you so excited to whip out your atheism stick and hit somebody over the head with it that you are willing to make grand assumptions?
>>77425804
>>77425940
OP, you've obviously never been exposed to theology before. This is a good place to start:
http://edwardfeser.blogspot.ca/
>>77425804
>I shy away from the word religious for obvious reasons
I'm afraid those reasons aren't obvious to me. Can you explain them?
A need for spiritual succour is as integral to a healthy human consciousness as eating, sleeping, or socialising. Science CANNOT acknowledge this, because the scientific method is a flawed system that can only measure that which has measurement. It was never meant to be universalised.
>>77425570
Neither do I. I also like Buddha and the Taoists. The creation of religion from tribal forms of spirituality has caused so much division in the world, when if you look at the actual message of the people they glorify, they all say the same thing.
Except for Muhammad of course.
>>77425601
Yes, and totally dependant on the state.
>>77426134
This is where you reveal that you read ABOUT religion, and not religion itself.
>>77426122
Yeah, I'll explain.
Religion is an organized system meant to give authority to certain individuals whose job it is to comfort us. But unfortunately, religion has been so badly abused by people that it is difficult to want to be associated with it. More specifically, organized religion. I find great spiritual sustenance in teachings from all religions (save Islam), and I do not like the dismissive attitudes they encourage for others beliefs.
That's why if i am pushed to label myself, I go with "Taoist". There is a Taoist poem:
Dismount your donkey at the summit.
It means, no matter how you get there, the important thing is that you got there. The donkey is whichever particular spiritual system you used.
And i agree about science. Like I said, physics is the new God, trying to boil everything down to particles.
>>77426279
Are you trying to goad me into something, friend?
>>77426674
>his aversion to western theology is such that he turns to chinkshit
>>77424049
>>77426762
I provided a link I think would help you, instead of spergposting about religion as an abstract phenomenon
>>77426815
Not true. But western theology is limited basically to the bible. I love the teachings of Christ, as I believe I already stated.
>>77427004
Protestantism, maybe
>>77426674
That makes sense. I always try to make a distinction between religion and organised religious communities, but I agree that it is a very difficult thing to do.
Anyone that makes science their God is making the most crucial mistake one can make. I have been studying alchemy in its various forms for a few years now, and it's never been more clear that science and spirituality, while they began working in tandem, have been torn apart from one another.
>>77426965
I know quite a lot about religion. But thank you.
And I am not posting that religion is an abstract phenomenon. I am saying that the spiritual or religious experience is an abstract phenomenon, and that abstract phenomenons in general require spirituality as science can not quantify them.
>>77427185
But you write about religion as if it's something you read a thirdhand account about where some guy sees it at a great distance
>>77427185
I was excited that there would be some hope with the discoveries being made in quantum mechanics that would help bridge the gap, but it seems to have only made things worse.
No you get respected scientists talking about infinite multiverse with every possible things being true and Artificial general intelligence that will hit the singularity and become God. It's just silly.
Also, if there are infinite universes where everything is possible, then doesn't that mean that there are universes that were created by God...? Science /BTFO/?
>>77427347
You are going to have to explain how you came to that conclusion, as I only really addressed religion in one post.
I am writing about it as someone who does not want to debate religion, but rather accept them all (except Islam) as a fundamental necessity for humanity.
>>77427466
Shit, meant for>>77427144
>>77427466
>>77427611
It annoys me that you write as if you know more than you think you do. I'm sure this shapeless and formless empty spirituality you propose is the true way
>>77424049
To be fair, I'm not really worried about the Christian vs Atheist debate. Sometime in the next 50 years they will create strong AI and most likely find nanotechnology that creates virtual immortality.
After 100 years or so eventually people will either stop being religious because they have no fear of death anymore or they start worshiping machines which will be basically gods.
Or the machines could put us all in camps and sterilize us so it will be a moot point.
Either way strong AI will happen. I have faith.
>>77427896
Okay, I am no longer going to respond to you. I am not purporting to know anything. If you have a specific question, you can ask it.
I am not promoting any form of spirituality. Whatever works for the individual is great. I follow my own path. I am happy and love everyone. I do not claim to have any answers.
The point of this thread is to point out that humans need spirituality. That atheism has morphed into something terrible, riding on the back of modern science. I have purposefully avoided talking about specific religions for the very reason I reject religion; it always turns into an argument about which is the right way.
And now, despite my efforts to avoid such a petty argument, still, you are falling into that exact same trap by trying to say that my way is not the right way, even though i have no way. I refuse to let you derail this.
>>77427466
It's a sign that they don't know anything, and I find it both amusing and annoying that when a scientist says:
>"we're probably all living in a video game!"
or
>"we live in a universe of infinite possibilities, where every possibility is played out!"
They are taken seriously at all. It's just cult of celebrity at this point. And further evidence of the need for spirituality being turned to this..hero worship.
Infinite possibilities is meaningless. It's literally every possible outcome, which renders everything utterly meaningless. Logically unsound too, using the general arguments against this kind of thing, as a possibility where the "multiverse" isn't real couldn't possibly exist.
It's just nu-atheism and their childish rejection of any kind of limitation.
>>77427466
>Also, if there are infinite universes where everything is possible, then doesn't that mean that there are universes that were created by God...? Science /BTFO/?
No. If your idea of a god existed at all, he wouldn't be limited to maybe a few of the infinite universes. He would be omnipresent in all universes.
He is not even slightly present in this universe, and the only way for theists to logically argue his existence is to place it outside of the universe itself, which is in reality the same place we put Darth Vader and Peter Pan; fiction. Anything outside of our universe does not exist within our universe by definition.
>>77428175
kek
Very nice post.
>>77428364
The problem I have with most religion is when it have problem with modern science which there is nothing wrong with. You can be spiritual and believe in science. The Pope even admitted evolution and big bang were real so there.
If you want to believe the earth is 6000 years (even though its not explicitly stated in the Bible) and want to teach that in schools instead of evolution then we have a problem.
>>77428364
So explain how you're different from the typical atheist/relativist since I don't see it.
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"
>>77424049
religion is why much of the world is still shit, particularly islam. More ignorance is not the answer. Problems are religion, women's lib, liberalism. All other problems stem from those.
>>77428388
It's a sign you're ignorant and don't understand the mathematics and physics behind it, because you're likely too dumb, and so weakly turn to your all-encompassing and simple answer of "God did it".
The shills are trying to mimic us and turn us into a meme by calling all threads shill threads.
>>77428626
>calls me ignorant
>can't read
>pretends I said things I never said
Nah. Enjoy your only reply.
>>77428388
I totally agree. They have gotten so pumped up by the backing of the atheist movement, that their excitement has made them retarded. It's okay to imagine what is possible according to the laws of physics, but the fact they believe this shit is possible based on the current model of quantum physics just goes to show how inadequate quantum physics is. They are trying to explain all of existence based on what we as humans are able to observe. And we know from studying animals, that there is so much more that we are able to observe than they can, based on the limitations of biology. So to ignore that fact and believe that we can somehow observe all that is knowable, or predict it with math is absurd.
>>77428848
Oh I can ready. Everything you said stems from the underlying premise you have about science. You're premise is wrong, therefore everything you said after to support the premise is wrong too. I don't need to deconstruct how dumb your supporting arguments are if your underlying premise is incorrect to begin with.
Learn to argue.
>>77424049
This gif never ceases to amaze me with how quality it is
>>77428784
This.
>>77428994
The best example of this is Lawrence Krauss famously saying: "if you think you understand quantum physics, you don't understand quantum physics.", to rapturous applause. Only a fairly small number in that audience, those that aren't blinded by hero worship for their "betters" would understand that this is NO DIFFERENT to a cleric saying: "God is unknowable!" to the same applause.
It's a sad state of affairs.
>>77428626
>>77428558
See, this is totally the fault of the religious right in America. Religion has always served as a "fill in the blank" for that which science can not explain. In its own way, it was an ancient form of science. Just listen to Alan Watts talk about mythology, he explains it all.
But there is no need for separation from science. The Dalai Lama loves modern science. And there is some place for a "God did it" mentality when it comes to the unexplainable, but the error comes in thinking of what Watts referred to as "The ceramic God" of the old testament, a literal creator forming and shaping things, rather than the oneness of all things.
>>77428784
Yeah, I know.
>>77429254
To be fair, science and technology have been the solution to most of our problems.
Political and philosophical solutions never seem to work long term.
Eventually they even solve the problem of old age. Unless you think god intended for us to live in caves covered in lice and shit like.
>>77429545
>all these strawman attacks and offhand dismissals of someone who posts more intelligently than yourself
Atheists are the modern "believe because I say so" people and it's so obvious
>>77424049
>I really believe that 3rd wave feminism, SJW, the regressive left....all that shit stems from the atheism wave.
No, it comes from Marxism, or just conflict theory in general.
Marxists think that existing structures and traditions perpetuate oppression, and must be torn down. All of them, including religion.
In a lot of cases this anti-religion bent comes from an underlying progressive ideology (heavily influenced by Marxism) rather than critically examining religious claims.
I am an atheist who shares your concerns about atheism, OP
>>77428848
Just look at what he says in response to you
>learn to argue
This is exactly what i was talking about in the OP. Atheists have turned into zealots. They worship their own intellect and logic, and their form of prayer is the argument. There are Christians that do this exact same thing, only they are generally nice, polite and patient instead of mean, bitter and nasty.
They are two sides of the same coin. Thoughtless people with wounded or weak spirits who have propped their identity up with an "ism" and have to go around putting it in everyone's face in order to justify their own existence.
>>77429545
Not to mention the neo-victorian attitude that everything can be solved through technological advancement
>>77429545
Why be boring if you can be interesting?
>>77428994
>They are trying to explain all of existence based on what we as humans are able to observe
What's your point? That this is somehow a bad thing? Or that it's better to explain all of existence based on what we can't observe?
>And we know from studying animals, that there is so much more that we are able to observe than they can, based on the limitations of biology
Biologically, animals are able to observe things we cannot, so you're wrong. We need technology to observe the things we can't naturally observe. We know from studying animals that we can *comprehend* more than they can. Your statement is ignorant and inaccurate.
>So to ignore that fact and believe that we can somehow observe all that is knowable, or predict it with math is absurd.
There is no fact to ignore. Your "fact" is inaccurate. You're acting like believing we could eventually understand the space we exist in fully is a bad thing. Math can empirically predict and describe our universe with great accuracy.
What the fuck is your argument in this thread? Religion is whack but science can be too, so let's combine them? Seriously I don't understand what you're for or against here.
>>77429545
No, technology will ultimately destroy us. Technology is not fulfilling. The happiest people in the world live in small tribal societies with little technology and many spiritual rituals.
>>77424049
You probably noticed your friends were intellectually stunted as you grew up. Arguing with evangelical Christians is easy mode. Did any of your m8s go learn Hindi? Sanscript? Arabic? Hebrew? And pick apart other religions.
Of course they didn't. They probably didn't even ever look at an English Quran.
What you thought was a lake in your youth turned out to be a puddle.
https://youtu.be/JnYwgcgBYeo
>>77429781
Well the Victorians weren't wrong.
When and if they get AI working, then well... Shit going to get real.
>>77429724
You're using SJW and PC arguments against atheism? Lol wow, someone speaks the truth and hurts your fee fees (because we all know the saying the truth hurts, you can't handle the truth, etc.), and so you cower and hide from those conflicts, mocking them?
>>77424049
feminism, abolitionism, and prohibition all originate from bleeding heart Christians, not atheists.
and before you mention it, no, atheism is not responsible for lower birth rates, there is no correlation, there IS a correlation however with woman liberty and lower birthrates tho.
I've been an agnostic-atheist since I was 11 and grew out of being anti-religion at 13. people that fail to get out of that phase are man-children.
half my town is atheist/agnostic and there isn't rampant SJW bullshit, degeneracy, (only like 10 homosexuals out of 4000+ people), or any real amount of anti-religion thought (near the edge of town there is a major orthodox church, and within the town proper there is a second church). the most liberal thing about the town is the Woman Democrat mayor, but she wasn't unqualified, she was a council member for a fair while
>>77429545
>To be fair, science and technology have been the solution to most of our problems.
Well, problems that can be solved by technological progress have been solved through technological progress.
Was this ever a doubt?
>>77429724
Yeah, it's quite sad, but I haven't been able to figure out a way to get them to listen or try to empathise? Because why would you ever try to compromise on a point when someone is SO WRONG and a meme will do just as well?
>>77430155
They weren't wrong. The attitude died with the Victorian era because of the inhumane large-scale mechanised slaughter of the Great War
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iGEiY6wvDo
>>77430004
Those people are not happy. They have gods and illogical beliefs in things like prayer being capable of literally healing physical injuries because they're ignorant and in despair from it, trying to call out to any power that's above them to help, instead of ignoring that and helping themselves like the rest of Humanity with civilization has been slowly doing.
>>77429944
I have stated the purpose of this thread several, several times. Maybe you should read it instead of calling me ignorant and arguing semantics.
In order to observe something, you have to comprehend it, or else you aren't observing it at all; you aren't processing all of the information.
My point, is that science has gotten to a point where there are taboo subjects. This is partially due to politics, and it is partially to do with how atheists have glorified science. Science seeks to completely dismiss spirituality and psychedelics. Thank God for men like Sam Harris trying to prove that they are not mutually exclusive.
Science is not unbiased. The fact there are taboo subjects invalidates it's ability to claim that it can explain everything.
And you shouldn't call people names.
>>77430384
*They WERE wrong
>>77424049
>Human being need spirituality
>>77430010
>Did any of your m8s go learn Hindi? Sanscript? Arabic? Hebrew? And pick apart other religions.
>>77430010
> Did any of your m8s go learn Hindi? Sanscript? Arabic? Hebrew? And pick apart other religions.
>Of course they didn't. They probably didn't even ever look at an English Quran.
You're a fucking retard if you expect people to learn other languages just to argue with people they don't care about. When the Hindi-speaking Buddhists/Hindus come over to America then I'll maybe pick up a Hindi dictionary
>>77430010
Well, that's not true at all. They are actually very intelligent and looked at many religions. Which is why it became so disappointing to me. I blame the environment. We grew up in a really poor shitty side of town. They moved away to the other side of town, but it is all hipsters.
>>77430562
Why did they dislike them? Because of disagreeing on the definitions of God, the nature of the spirit, the nature of man, etc. or because "I just didn't, like, feel it man?"
>>77430401
Well, that's just not true. There are some like that, but mostly those that grow out of small tribes. They have recorded people who live in small tribes and they smile almost constantly, come good fortune or bad. Meanwhile, we live in a world where people REEEEEEEEEE when they get killed in an online video game.
Anyway, is it more important to live long, or be happy?
The point is, we can have both.
>>77429254
>this is NO DIFFERENT to a cleric saying: "God is unknowable!"
Except with quantum physics it's trying to predict something that's external and verifiable that we're just not sure how to explain yet.
Krauss is a moron when he starts talking about philosophy, but don't extrapolate that and condemn a legitimate field of science.
>>77430333
You can't try to get them to listen or empathise. All you can do is love them, treat them well, and live as an example. Focus on yourself in an unselfish way, and it will help those around you.
>>77424049
>But anyway, there is a direct slide from atheism into zealous atheism. And once they run out of Christians to attack, they have to have somethin to proselytize about, so it is a natural progression to liberalism and SJW shit. I really believe that 3rd wave feminism, SJW, the regressive left....all that shit stems from the atheism wave.
It stems from the 'atheism wave' in so far as the following
Everyone knows intuitively that there is an ideal. Some way things "ought" to be. We can point to any number of things in this world and insist it shouldn't be like that. The specifics aren't important for the point, nor that we agree on what way any or even everything "ought" to be like. Only that we recognize that by overwhelming majority we as humans recognize something is fundamentally wrong.
Enter Progressives. The religious progressive has some sort of standard. It isn't necessarily arbitrary or subjective. It may not be correct, but it appeals to something beyond the self. Some sort of metaphysically necessary objective by which "progress" can be measured.
Atheism lacks such a standard. Progress under such a world view or model is entirely arbitrary, subjective, and ultimately pointless. There is no goal. Even if things to improve by matter of consensus view the idea THAT method should be the standard is no more relevant than appeal to any other sort other standard, like "it works for me".
The result. "Progressive" atheism is meandering bullshit that is just as soon to tear down everything it has built if for no other reason some new arbitrary standard deems the entire endeavor was for some reasons or another "regressive".
The worst part of it? Rarely do any atheists really embrace their world view and face the implications, nevermind live by them. Always they adopt the standards of some other worldview, often while complaining about how those standards "ought" to be some other way. Maybe that's right, but an alternative the atheists do not have.
>>77431197
Typical "I've heard all religions" know-it-all adopting a fatalistic Buddhist mindset. Have you even read a single book?
>>77430407
This threads purpose is as irrelevant as all other theistfag threads on /pol/. It's useless conversation that never gets anywhere and only serves to slide important topics from the front page.
>In order to observe something, you have to comprehend it, or else you aren't observing it at all; you aren't processing all of the information
I love how you just can't stop spouting stupid BS that is obviously wrong. Animals don't comprehend shit, yet they can observe as much as us and sometimes more. The brain is ALWAYS and CONSTANTLY processing every tiny little bit of information the external senses pick up. This is the only way you can actually SEE or hear anything around you. If your brain wasn't processing the photons bouncing off the walls of your room to let you know they're there, you'd fucking walk right into them without realizing there's an object there.
Everything has taboo subjects. Science does not seek to dismiss spirituality or psychedelics, it seeks to explain them in an easy to understand way. You misunderstand this because of the reality clashing against your imagined view. Like watching the movie version of a book is usually disappointing because what you're seeing is different from what you've built up in your mind.
Science is a tool, and tools cannot be anything but what their wielders use them for. Science is unbiased, people are not.
Everything you explain is inaccurate, ignorant or just plain incorrect.
>>77431082
I'm not condemning the field of quantum physics. I don't know anything about it, so it'd be pretty idiotic and mean for me to do so.
I'm criticising people that will hang on his every word due to celebrity status. Way too many atheists believe that they're logical and rational people because they visit IFLscience every now and again and upvote black science man quotes.
>>77431197
Well, i'm not one of those people that thinks loving my enemy is the right thing to do, but violence against zeal is wrong in all regards, so i'll likely just ignore them? maybe they'll grow up?
>>77431019
They smile constantly good or bad because of their ignorance. It's bliss because you can easily imagine the most astounding, magical ways to end your problems and pretend that everything will eventually be okay, no matter what. It's the philosophical equivalent of sticking your head into the sand and going, "Lalalalla". They see something horrible and to cope with it by their ignorant brains imagining an equal or greater good reaction coming out of it, like, "oh it doesn't matter if mogwab was violently murdered by his jealous cousins, cuz our 58 gods will take him into heaven where he'll be happy foreverXD".
It's disgusting and dishonest. And the worst part is idiots like you pretending this is any way to live.
>>77431767
If, when we die, everything goes dark and we cease to exist, then who cares how a man lived? If a simple man wants to live a happy life in ignorant bliss, why not let him?
Eventually science will be so advanced that the average man won't be able to understand it.
It will be like magic and we will have techno priests to intercede for us with the great AI gods.
And thus the great Adeptus Mechanicum came to pass.
>>77431362
>animals don't comprehend shit
stopped right there. If you really think that animals don't comprehend anything, then A) you are positing that human beings aren't animals, which goes against the very same science you are clutching so tightly,and
B)You are implying that animals do not think, have no mental process in the brain, and run on some sort of magical instinct.
I don't think you know what the word comprehend means. There are primates that can speak fucking sign language, do you think they don't comprehend?
The point of this thread is not to argue. But it has clearly shown how badly atheists want to do so. Every atheist in this thread has been nothing but rude, condescending and nasty.
The best people i have ever met in my life have all been very spiritual. They would do anything for another person. They love unconditionally. They are always smiling, always hugging, always asking others if they need anything. I would much rather live in a world full of people like that than a world full of people like you.
Can you COMPREHEND that?
>>77432077
>eventually
We're there now in many fields
>>77431996
The people who are still here to deal with the bullshit those idiots left behind care, sir. We care a whole lot.
>>77431457
You can love your enemy and punch him in the fucking face. This is where i deviate more into Taoism. It is more important to follow your nature and do what you are comfortable with. If that means ignoring shit heads, so be it. But if they ask you, tell them. If they laugh, oh well. Have patience with them, but compassion for yourself.
The underlying problem here is human psychology with cognitive biases like groupthink, confirmation bias, framing bias, self-serving bias, etc. What you have to understand is that there is spectrum between atheism and theism. It's much like politics in that on the surface it is only a two party system but when you go deeper you find there is a wide array of political thought. You have the angry anti-theist reddit fedora new atheists with an intellectual superiority complex on one end and fanatical theists on the other end who think atheists are demons and their doctrines or spiritual guides are the ultimate truth. The internet has made these loudmouths more visible so it gives you an us vs. them impression, and then media capitalizes on this even more when it is really just a false dichotomy.
The fact of the matter is this isn't a totally black and white issue and there are various shades of gray. There are plenty of atheists open to exploring the possibility of spirituality (New Atheist Sam Harris has written books exploring consciousness and spirituality without religion) and have no hard feelings toward the religious and can even respect them. Then there are religious people who are open to learning outside their religion, have no problem with atheists and respect them with a curiosity to learn from them, particularly theologians. Also there isn't as much of a conflict between science and religion as you think. Historically, religious schools of thought have produced prominent scientific thinkers like during the Islamic Golden Age (inb4 mudslime, I'm an atheist). Furthermore, the official Catholic Church recognizes the veracity of evolution and there are other critically thinking religious philosophers like Alvin Platingua. Not every religion prohibits reason and only promotes blind faith. Some (yes even within Christianity) actually encourage thinking critically about faith.
>>77432385
Scientism can be an issue and the reductionist and materialist point of views aren't a done deal yet. There are still contentious issues like the problem of consciousness, qualia, etc. in the philosophy of mind. So if it isn't evident enough, atheists can be just as dogmatic and indoctrinated as theists. A lot of these fedora atheists like to claim they are "freethinkers" when they won't even bother to explore theism because they assume it and those within the field are stupid, with their echo chamber this. The original freethinkers were in fact theists and their is nothing precluding this from happening today. Freethinking is just about questioning authoritative thinking, ideology, dogma, politics, conventional wisdom, etc. the field doesn't matter. Bad science and pseudoscience is just as much of a problem as woodom. Always check for opposing views. The overarching framework you must apply is critical thinking because there are “false prophets” within every field. If you are interested in critical thinking, torrent textbooks on it. You'll see examples of sound and poor thinking and train your mind to be more self aware of your thought process.
>>77432357
Are you actually 33? You think like a teenager
>>77431767
You have missed the entire point, because I suppose you can't imagine that people can live together and not murder.
They are actually doing shit with their life, and they are happy.
Meanwhile, you are sitting at your computer posting on 4chan and arguing that they aren't really happy, just stupid.
Do you see what i am getting at?
Are we all just going to ignore the fact that religious belief is related to mental illness?
https://youtu.be/4WwAQqWUkpI
>>77432077
There are people who unironically believe this.
>>77424049
>>77424049
OP, people eventually grow out of "atheism". In its current form it manifests itself psychologically as pro-science deterministic autism, but as we are learning with meme magic there is much more to the human mind than we know about. Religion posits that your actions carry on after death, science is coming to similar conclusions or will soon
>>77432579
>we'll just, like, get along, man
>duuuude, pass the blunt
>>77432650
Holy shit dude, wtf? I guess I am #Satanmissle now.
>>77432730
>Religion posits that your actions carry on after death, science is coming to similar conclusions or will soon
Keep em coming, anon. Shit is hilarious.
>>77432650
people seem to forget YHWH was a Canaanite war and storm god. Judaism began as YHWHism and was essentially a cult that claimed YHWH was the only "real" god and that all others were demons. early jews were hated because they were assholes that went around calling other people's gods bullshit
Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are simply, by nature, offensive, violent, warring, expansionist religions, this shouldn't be new to anyone.
>>77432143
>If you really think that animals don't comprehend anything, then A) you are positing that human beings aren't animals, which goes against the very same science you are clutching so tightly
Animals don't comprehend anything. Human beings being animals has nothing to do with our ability to comprehend or not. We're a different kind of animal. Completely unique. Your argument is like saying because a 4k, 3D flatscreen televisiontelevision and an old CRT television are both televisions that they should be capable of the same things.
>B)You are implying that animals do not think, have no mental process in the brain, and run on some sort of magical instinct
They do only run on instinct and do not think anywhere near close to the way we think. A brain isn't even needed in some cases to make a living creatures. But a thinking one needs a very complex, dense, and large brain, which only we have and are capable of understanding.
Primates speaking sign language is not comprehension, it's pattern recognition and mimicry. Do parrots speak? No, they mimic.
>The point of this thread is not to argue. But it has clearly shown how badly atheists want to do so. Every atheist in this thread has been nothing but rude, condescending and nasty
I disagree, but you should expect a reaction of nastiness when you are literally positing your opinions with your own "holier than thou" condescension on atheism and atheists.
>I would much rather live in a world full of people like that than a world full of people like you
The problem here is that I am one of those people, and I agree with you. You fail to understand that atheism does not negate spirituality, but a specific kind that Abrahamic religions have been hammering down our throats for over 2k years.
>>77432730
>we are learning with meme magic
>he literally believes that shitposting on a Latvian model train enthusiast forum provides enlightenment
I think a day will come when Science proves the existence of a higher power. More and more evidence is pointing in that direction as the years go by.
>>77433164
>More and more evidence is pointing in that direction as the years go by.
(citation needed)
>>77430150
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw-6ToEcirE
>>77424049
Yup. Atheism is only for the high IQ people, the lower ones need something to worship in order to behave correctly.
Christianity has proven to be one of the best of these tools overall.
>>77432579
>they are actually doing shit with their life
Like what? Throwing sharp sticks at small pigs and hoping they don't starve this month? Or hoping that small cut they just got won't get infected and kill them slowly and painfully like they've had to watch 4 of their family members go through within 3 years? Or hoping that this time, one of their many wives will have a successful birth instead of a messy miscarriage or deformed abomination like their last 6 attempts?
I could go on and on and on for hours.
>>77433644
>this is what Judeo-Bolshevists actually believe
>>77433164
Proves? Doubtful, but the case is otherwise already so strong that anyone who honestly looks at the cases for an against would be hard pressed to conclude anything other than the positive case as the most likely explanation.
But that is betraying the other, more important component.
Let's assume Science DOES prove the existence of God, His identity, and so forth. This won't necessarily produce meaningful change in the individual. Just take Exodus for example using Judaism/Christianity as an example. Here you have a people all but standing before God Himself. There wasn't any question whether he existed. Yet the Israelites were quick to turn away from Him.
>>77433468
Apparent design of the initial conditions of the Universe in particular point very strongly to a designer. The more we learn, the more absurd a notion the Anthropic Principle becomes as an explanation. When one person wins the lottery, the odds of that one person winning are very small, but someone did win. No big deal. When a small click of Government workers are winning the lottery week after week "that's just the way it happens" becomes a very unsatisfactory explanation.
>>77433099
>pattern recognition isn't comprehension
There are gorillas with IQ's of 80. They can sign very specific things and communicate.
>>77433468
I could post articles and studies and experiments and black science guy like astrophysicist studies, but you know how to use google. You can find it on your own. The evidence is really astounding.
>>77433902
>the actual explanation isn't as grand and mysterious as my head-Canon I've literally imagined, so it must be wrong
No. Stop this.
>>77433902
>God has to exist because improbable = impossible
Okay
>>77424049
>Wow stupid people follow religions and don't know anything
>Remove god
>Stupid people follow Marxism and don't know anything
Wow who could have predicted this. Probably the people you went
>le shut up fundies you don't need religion to be moral
to, right?
>>77433902
They would rather argue that we are in a simulation or that we are brains in jars that say the word "God". And this is just so fucking sad.
Yup. This is also the cause for shitting all over the second amendment.
When you firmly believe that nothing is after death, that this life is all you have, then preservation of life suddenly becomes far more important than some "flimsy ideal" like liberty that you won't get to enjoy if you're dead.
Atheism really is a cancer.
>>77424049
Atheists are literally nothing. They believe as much themselves. This is why the most self-important of the lot will always strive to make a career from their inane writings.
>Hitchens
>Dawkins
>Harris
>Banana cunt
You know exactly the kind of people I mean.
>>77433099
>Primates speaking sign language is not comprehension, it's pattern recognition and mimicry.
Patently false. Many species of primates have been able to generate language way beyond mimicry. They demonstrate understanding and are able to apply their learning to create new words that didn't exist. (example - they know the sign for "bird" and sign for "water", but do not know the sign for "duck". They create a sign that combines the "bird" and "water" that means "duck")
>We're a different kind of animal. Completely unique.
What makes us unique?
>>77433902
>Apparent design of the initial conditions of the Universe in particular point very strongly to a designer. The more we learn, the more absurd a notion the Anthropic Principle becomes as an explanation.
Expand on why you think the anthropic principle is absurd. Your lottery analogy was either too convoluted or not fully explained to the point where an idiot like me can understand it.
>>77434154
>I could post articles and studies and experiments
I don't believe you
>>77424049
> Whether or not you have had a spiritual experience, imperically, they do exist
> "imperically"
> actually means Empirically but is as incapable of spelling the word as of understanding what it means
empirical means OBSERVABLE, and some dickwad's "spiritual experience" is the very definition of Un-Observable
stop trying to sound smart, nobody is buying it.
> the rest of your idiotic screed:
bullshit
flinging random feces at a page with only an autismal fedora-tip to grammar doesnt make for a rational argument, and no, nobody is gonna take you seriously because youre clearly a low grade moron
SJWs are NOt atheists, they are idiots who want to feel aggreived, wallow in post-modern self hate, and force that self-hate onto others.
kinda like youre doing.
>>77433902
I'd say the anthropic principle is rather strong.
I mean God might need us to figure out how to reverse the second law of thermodynamics for some reason.
>>77434116
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent" -Qui-Gon Jinn
Gorillas don't comprehend the fact that they're speaking with other beings using a system of signals. They used pattern recognition to figure out what responses come from what pattern of hand signals, then use those patterns to get rewards.
Every time those communicating Gorillas "speak", they're given a yummy reward as reinforcement. Like how you train a dog. It's the same shit with mice and solving mazes. They're not doing it because the comprehend their situations, they're doing it because of binary 0-1 instincts.
>>77434485
I don't buy his argument about the lottery. You can say that about anything...What are the odds the hairs on my head would line up perfectly just the way they are now? It has to be one in a trillion....That's backward probability, it doesn't work.
>>77434531
>empirical means OBSERVABLE, and some dickwad's "spiritual experience" is the very definition of Un-Observable
Calm down, cunt. You haven't proven it's undeniably anything is not-observable to the single experiencer in question.
Please don't become a physician. You will suck and frustrate many patients.
Anyhow, 'spiritual experience' is usually a direct and exclusive experience to the witness.
Your sensations of it are unnecessary for it to be justifiably deemed valid, and therefore irrelevant.
This isn't a medical study. There's not need to be so cold and prickish.
>>77432628
I dunno,
are we all just going to ignore the fact that atheistic belief is related to being tubby?
>>77434485
>They demonstrate understanding and are able to apply their learning to create new words that didn't exist. (example - they know the sign for "bird" and sign for "water", but do not know the sign for "duck". They create a sign that combines the "bird" and "water" that means "duck")
This is simple pattern recognition. They're not doing it because they understand it, they're doing it because it nets them a reward. That's how we've taught them to "communicate" in the first place. It's like saying a rat in a maze comprehends his situation because it knows one path leads to food and saftey and one path does no. This is binary pattern recognition and our goddamn computers do it.
Are you saying computers are capable of comprehension too? No, like computers animals are machines. You give input and get output. Humans are not so. You give a Human input and you'd be lucky to get an output.
>>77434485
You can google it yourself. Take you a few hours of reading. Im sure you will make the time. I have no interest in posting dozens of articles so you can pretend to read them and leave a half baked comment which you believe disproves anything because you have a mediocre education at a community college.
Just use google.
>>77435066
YOU CAN SAY THE SAME GOD DAMN THING ABOUT HUMANS
>what is dopamine?
You do not know what comprehend means.
>grasp mentally; understand.
"he couldn't comprehend her reasons for marrying Lovat"
synonyms: understand, grasp, take in, see, apprehend, follow, make sense of, fathom,
>>77434797
To be fair, if intelligent design was involved, it could use a great deal of room for improvement.
I really don't see why god could have just used a random chaos model to create the universe.
In a sense he didn't design anything. He just used emergent models to achieve the end result.
>>77434531
Read Sam Harris.
>>77434704
You mean, the same way we teach children?
It's bizarre that Christians got raked over the coals for being jackasses but when a religion that is 100 times for awful comes into the spotlight its cool.
>>77434485
>Expand on why you think the anthropic principle is absurd. Your lottery analogy was either too convoluted or not fully explained to the point where an idiot like me can understand it.
The number, and variety as well as the precision of the variables of the initial conditions to produce a life supporting Universe (we're not just talking about advanced life, but any life) are such that even my convoluted lottery analogy utterly fails to demonstrate how preposterously improbable our Universe is.
Let me attempt to describe this from another perspective. The situation is such that theoretical physics literally test the descriptive power of their many-worlds models with the likelihood those models are to produce universes that are nothing more than Boltzmann Brains. That is to say, instead of conceding the obvious, the cutting edge of theoretical physics would rather measure the likelihood their models will produce a universe that is a brain floating in a vacuum, imagining a Universe like our's.
They have gone from solipsism to solipsism. Nowhere.
This isn't intended as a proof, mind. I don't believe such a thing will be forthcoming. But if you are seriously interested in the subject, avail yourself of it. The case for "god" is not so simple as a single argument, nor is a post or two sufficient in doing any single argument justice. The contrary? Welp, we've managed to reason ourselves into the exact same hole that we started from after Ergo cogito sum. We CAN know something... but if it is anything more than our own mind? That's up to you. Good luck, and God bless.
>>77434797
It's not backward probability, because it is regarding Universes "like" our's, not necessarily our's in particular. The odds for a Universe LIKE our's is so improbable it defies reason to just assume "good thing we ended up in this Universe"
>>77435064
this. The only reason they know that cortisol spikes during stress is because the patients have relayed their experience.
It is also observable through brain scans.
>>77431767
Nah /thread
>>77435534
That's assuming there are other universes.
>>77435237
You can say the same thing about Humans, but it only fits into specific categoriesof Humans. ALL animals can be described this way completely, except for us. We're ALWAYS the unique aberration compared to what we see about every other life form.
Until a gorilla starts signing and communicating by itself without any potential for reward or reinforcement, has a logical debate and doesn't give in to its overwhelming animalistic urge to chimp out from the argument afterwards, they don't comprehend shit and you can't convince any sane person otherwise.
>>77432730
>implying religion isn't meme magic
>>77435534
The many-worlds interpretation isn't a "model" of anything and no serious physicist actually tries to test it. You shouldn't talk about things you don't know. Also your entire premise is "I can accept that improbable things happen, but really really improbable things are clearly impossible."
>>77435534
To be fair, the anthropic principle is hard to conceptualize.
You have to mentally visualize all the universes that would end up with a sterile universe plus the ones that would come up with life and even then you would have to come up with universes that come up not only with life, but life that can self reflect on why a universe is the way it is.
And even then you'd have to allow for a universe that gives the self reflector the comprehension to understand the situation rather than creating myths to explain why things are the way they are.
>>77424049
I'm 30, OP. I have reached the same conclusion. Good luck to you. You have given me hope.
I'm agnostic atheist but I respect christians, like christian culture, love christian family values and hate degeneracy. You don't need spirituality to be a sane, functioning individual.
Atheism is not the problem. SJWs, LGBT supporters etc. are mentally ill.
>>77434704
>They used pattern recognition to figure out what responses come from what pattern of hand signals, then use those patterns to get rewards.
That is why we use language too.
>>77435438
The difference is Humans seek out knowledge for knowledge's sake and aren't really deterred by lack of reward, or even assurance of threat.
We will run toward forest fires in a attempt to put them out because we comprehend not only the simplistic nature of fire=dead, but because we comprehend how it started, where it started, who started it, where it is, where it will spread, how it will spread, how fast it will spread, what will slow it, what will stop it, how it affects not just the environment, but the life there, not just immediately, but in a future sense as well. We are not completely cowed by our instincts like animals. We can deny them and overcome them. Animals cannot and they cannot even comprehend being ABLE to deny instincts, or even what instincts are.
>>77435242
Exactly. Our definition of life itself is somehow severed from basic chemistry the way we separate ourselves from animals.
>>77436049
Not exclusively like animals though. We don't ONLY communicate for reward or reinforcement.
>>77435715
So you're claiming that the unique quality that separates us from other animals is free will?
>>77435702
Correct. These models are typically very elaborate and require a variety of explanations to address whatever explanatory power they may provide in explaining our own.
>>77435756
>The many-worlds interpretation isn't a "model" of anything and no serious physicist actually tries to test it.
I didn't not say "The". I used a plural. There are many many-worlds models for lack of a better term in describe a broad range of theoretical models that attempt to explain the initial conditions of the Universe. Please explore these, as they come in great varieties. What you are thinking of is probably the many-worlds that are implied by string theory.
>>77435756
>"I can accept that improbable things happen, but really really improbable things are clearly impossible."
So you have no problem accepting the resurrection of Jesus! That's wonderful! Let my brothers on /pol/ share with you more about the good news, for He is risen, and all your transgressions paid in full!
>>77425288
the fact that religiousity can be induced through intracranial magnetic simulation and drugs proves thst there is a specific system in our brains dedicated to it. a fully realised person should have at least a couple of these experiences and value them for whatever insight they can gain from them. I doubt it matters what religion you subscribe to so long as it is a net positive impact on you and your relationship to humanity.
>>77424049
None of this matters at all. The west will be majority non-white in 2 generations. People like to point to the demographic percentages of the present, but you should look at the birth rates for what is coming down the line.
England, France, Germany, and Sweden have non-native birth rates greater than 80% of all births every year. Once the boomers die off, the demographics will be so skewed that natives will become a decreasing minority that either has no kids, 1 or 2 kids, or just mixes. Same problem is happening in America. The future is non-white, non-Christian, and socialist. And the saddest thing is that there is nothing you can do to stop this. It's already way too late to stop it. If you closed off and stopped all immigration, it would still happen. So the people fighting hard to keep conservative ideologies and to keep the west white are fighting a battle that's already been lost decades ago.
>>77436297
Actually, it's just a larger quantity of grey matter focused into a single point. We have larger operating capacity than before. Like upgrading your computer's RAM.
All life forms are computers. Animals are calculators and Humans are quantum super computers.
Technically the same thing, but one has more resources to work with.
>>77436550
I had a religious experience on molly once, but the next two days were such hell that I avoid it completely now. All I learned was not to fuck with those chemicals.
>>77436321
A "model" is a very specific term in physics and none of the pop-science musings about the initial conditions of the universe you've read about on the Internet classify as one. There's no physicist who claims to know anything about them beyond a wild educated guess.
>>77436600
No that doesn't follow and isn't logically supported by anything other than pure assertion
.
If what separates humans from other animals is the capacity to make decisions unmotivated by any potential for reward or reinforcement then that essentially is a claim that humans possess free-will and other animals do not.
So once again I ask, is the claim being made that humans somehow possess free-will and are able undertake truly spontaneous actions that violate causality while animals are not?
>>77436596
We could kill the shit skins
>>77436908
and yet they will propose them as viable alternatives to theism.
See: Sean Carroll
>>77424049
>Humans need spirituality
>Imperically they do exist
Proof much anon? I'm sorry to sound like a fedorafag. I think you're confusing spirituality for purpose, we are depressed shits because we lack a purpose other than pure materialistic gain and hedonism. Spirituality is a way of achieving a sense of purpose, albeit a false one, however there are other ways, spirituality is just the easiest one but not the right one.
>>77437182
Yeah, the only option left. But when will it happen and do we have the will? I don't want to think of a time when whites are only 15% of the population and they wish they could defend themselves and their families but they can't because they are swarmed and at the mercy of the majority. You see, non-whites don't believe in human rights like white Europeans.
>>77425183
Atheism is definitely growing
>>77437653
>albeit a false one
please illustrate a legitimate purpose, else a "false one" is no less valid than any other purpose.
>>77437653
>there are other ways
There is no other way.
You only think there is because whatever materialistic motivation you've found hasn't truly been tested yet.
Feel free to enlighten me and blow me away with your difficult but "right way" though.
>>77426134
You can also replace religion with moral philosophies and have the same result but without the "MUH BLASPHEMIES INFIDELS" bullshit. I personally think that's the way to go along with a decent purpose or direction in life, what that direction or purpose is of course, is up to you.
>>77437132
No. What separates us is our prefrontal cortex. It's an extra set of neurons and synapses that allow for abstract thought.
Animals don't have this extra lobe.
All actions have positive and negative reactions. Humans are the only ones capable of comprehending more than just the obvious physical reactions, but also abstract philosophical reactions.
For example, a dog will stand on its hind legs for a treat, but likely won't if there's no promises of a treat. A Human might perform a similar action for a reward of say, money, but the difference is that the Human might also perform that same action without the promise of any physical reward, instead using their magical brains to INVENT a psychological reward out of abstract thinking. Get it?
A dog wouldn't stand on its hind legs to prove a point to its owner that it can, in defiance or spite, they wouldn't even consider such concepts, let alone think of such actions as giving a reward, but a Human sure as fuck would, and that Human sure as fuck would consider the reaction of defiance and proving a point to net a psychological reward.
Animals can't think abstractly like this.
>>77437518
I only know him for his physics lectures, but if he's anything like Krauss he's just trying to sell books. It's distasteful.
>>77438000
>You can also replace religion with moral philosophies and have the same result but without the "MUH BLASPHEMIES INFIDELS" bullshit.
ludicrous
You're essentially saying you can get the same result but without anyone ever actually being wrong (which is essentially what blasphemy is), which is moral relativist cancer.
>>77437653
That is not what spirituality is at all.
Read up on spiritual experiences, Im tired of explaining it. Read Sam Harris, "Waking Up".
>>77438000
A moral philosophy needs to be grounded outside the self so that it is not self-serving and malleable. I don't know how any moral philosophy can work that is not theistic or faith based. There has to be a real incentive and punishment for your moral choices.
>>77424049
Pic related: They target good people.
>>77438289
There does not have to be punishment as such, only infinite reward. The only punishment becomes not achieving more and more progress that reaps those rewards.
>>77438092
>Animals don't have this extra lobe.
Meaningless and wrong.
>A dog wouldn't stand on its hind legs to prove a point to its owner that it can, in defiance or spite, they wouldn't even consider such concepts, let alone think of such actions as giving a reward
A). prove this assertion
B). there are other animals than dogs
>Animals can't think abstractly like this
prove this assertion
>>77438451
Well you can argue that no reward is a punishment itself if you want to be an autist faggot nigger about it.
>>77437913
Eh, honestly the false one bit was more my personal opinion rather than objective. I tried to understand spirituality and even got into religion at one point but it all felt false to me, I felt alienated as all hell. Essentially I was more reflecting on my experiences with religion and spirituality and how it didn't give me a purpose rather than speaking for everybody, sorry for being unclear about that. As for the "other ways", I think that we should dedicate ourselves to some form of altruism-within-rational-self-interest where we help others as much as we can but not so much that we end up fucking ourselves over. Though I suppose to an extent that can be considered spiritual. Also you seem to throw the word "spirituality" around like a buzzword so I don't know what you count as spiritual or not, can you please give a definition so I know what I'm dealing with?
>>77438688
I know. That's why I said,"as such".
>>77438510
>Meaningless and wrong
Nope. We're the only ones with our brains.
>prove the assertion that dogs can't be spiteful and have points to prove
Are you retarded? Gonna ask me to prove the sky is blue next? Animals have never done this. There's your proof.
>prove they can't think abstractly
I already did. They don't have our brains. If they could think abstractly, they'd be doing what we do. They don't though
>>77438688
>christbeasts on suicide watch
>>77438246
Moral relativism is pretty cancerous I agree but you fail to see the countless times that the "muh infidels" mentality has lead to the loss of innocent life. The main flaw I see with spirituality is that we become fanatically obsessed with it, we mix our vile, primal feeling of rage and hatred with our feelings of spirituality to create a toxic spew of poison that destroys everything it touches. Spirituality just like most man made constructs is corruptible and inconsistent.
>>77438761
Spirituality is defined many ways. Emotional control is a good start. It is also an experience of selflessness. A spiritual experience often results in ego death, whereby you feel a sense of oneness with all beings, or at least humans.
Spiritual principles are honesty and compassion and doing for others.
In Taoism, the three treasures are patience, compassion and simplicity. Patience with friends and enemies, simplicity in thought and action, and compassion towards yourself. That reflects your altruism-with-rational-self-interest, only you realize that there is no self.
Don't believe there is no self? Try and pinpoint your consciousness.
>>77424049
Here's my issue.
Revelation 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Does this mean that "God" is born onto the Earth as a man? If so that means that it has to be one of us. I feel bad for whoever that is.
>>77438960
Christcore enthusiasts often defer to privation boni to describe evil.
>>77438849
>Nope. We're the only ones with our brains.
the only animals with human brains?
Yes that's true but there's nothing special about our frontal lobes and the prefrontal cortex is just the front of our frontal lobes. All mammals have a front portion of their frontal lobe.
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/beautiful-minds/gorillas-agree-human-frontal-cortex-is-nothing-special/
> Animals have never done this. There's your proof.
You repeating your claim is not proof. Prove animals never act out of spite or defiance.
>If they could think abstractly, they'd be doing what we do
Which is what exactly?
>>77439264
That's like saying that describing coldness as the lack of heat is a fallacy.
>>77439011
>you fail to see the countless times that the "muh infidels" mentality has lead to the loss of innocent life
No I don't. Don't confuse my callous disregard for innocent life for failing to be aware of it's loss
>.Spirituality just like most man made constructs is corruptible and inconsistent.
So the problem then is not with spirituality but man, and logically man will also mix his "vile primal feelings of rage and hatred" with whatever philosophical world view he adheres to.
Lord knows I do it here everyday when I browse /pol/ and come away wanting to dash the brains out of liberals with a stone club.
>>77439441
No, that would be like saying the exact opposite of privatio boni.
>>77439124
Well that depends on what you define as "yourself" if you believe that "yourself" is completely separate from the rest of the world and is not affected by any outside event, then of course there is no self. However I define the self a little bit differently, I define the self as the combination of all your thoughts, memories and experiences, thus it is directly influenced by the outer world as experiences can be shaped. So I believe in a self, it's just that I believe it's heavily shaped by the outer world. As for consciousness, I go by "I think therefore I am." The fact that I can sit here and ponder what consciousness is and if I'm truly conscious shows that I have a consciousness.
>>77439983
I didn't sat you didn't have consciousness, I said where is it. Where are you?
Again, a spiritual experience is an expansion of consciousness beyond yourself. This can be attained in many ways. The easiest is mushrooms.
>>77424049
OP putting up a pretty good fight, but your false-flag has no lasting value.
I guess that thread a few nights ago informing people of what exactly a Theist, Atheist, and Agnostic is was a waste of time as I thought.
Mostly because it's summer.
Theist = Believes in deity(s)
Atheist = Does not believe in deity(s)
Agnostic = Not knowing. (but not limited to deities)
Catholic = Pro-God bible worshiper
Christian = Pro-Jesus gospel worshiper
Jew = Anti-Jesus bible worshiper
Protestant = Post-Jesus Catholic(or)Jew neo-bible worshiper.
Orthodox = Post-Jesus Catholic(or)Jew old-bible worshiper.
There are very little actual Atheists in the world (outside mad scientists who believe humans omnipotent), and very little, if any actual Christians remain because the gospel was mostly oral and what was written is highly paraphrased.
Most agnostics are thrust into a world view they never fully accepted and fear the consequence of change.
There's no such thing as agnostic-atheist/theist. You're just an asshole. Amorality only exists in fantasy, constructs, or jellyfish-like organisms.
>>77439744
Eh desu that's the flaw with everything from spirituality to all philosophy, it is corruptible. However I'm coming to an agreement that spirituality is a good thing that must be brought back to at least some extent. Also, how come you're callous about the loss of innocent life? Isn't that moral relativist cancer? Are you utilitarian by chance? Do you think that those innocent lives lost pale in comparison to the overall benefits of what you suggest?
>>77439744
>No I don't. Don't confuse my callous disregard for innocent life for failing to be aware of it's loss
>The absolute madman.jpg
>>77440213
>are you utilitarian by chance?
No I'm just dead inside.
It's not that I like that innocent people die, or even don't care, I'm just numb to it and consider it an inevitability.
Innocent people will die no matter what you do.
>>77440124
My consciousness is in my brain which resides inside my skull, it is the trillions of electrical signals sent throughout my synapses. I can prove this as fucking with the brain or sending different electrical signals has a direct, observable affect on consciousness. Performing a lobotomy will cause the person to become a vegetable and rid them of consciousness to an extent, using psychedelics stimulates certain regions of the brain and creates a different sense of consciousness. This further goes adds to my theory of "self affected by outside world" as the consciousness itself can be altered via physical and chemical means from the outside world.
>>77440468
Tbh that's my mentality as well, innocents will die no matter what, however, it is in our best interest to decrease the amount of dead innocents as much as possible.
>>77440468
>Innocent people will die no matter what you do.
Innocent? Innocent under what standard of justice?
>>77424049
>>77440651
Not calling out "blasphemous" behavior doesn't inherently do that though.
>>77440660
Exactly
>>77440569
Actually, no one can prove what consciousness is or where it comes from. You need to read more before you act so sure of yourself.
>>77440830
Fair enough
>>77424049
It's not only the fact that it keeps us docile. It's that there is much more potential for people to be united under a religion, rather than being united under atheism. Spirituality resonates within cultures, and connects t people in a meaningful way. This is an ability you cannot buy with money or bribery; so the elite are scared. Divided masses are easier to control than a united one.
>>77440875
But once again that shows that consciousness is a malleable concept. Though I personally I view consciousness being able to sense the world around oneself and act upon those senses. One's opinion on what consciousness is and ins't and if it's even real greatly depends on one's definition of it.
>>77440660
Isn't what you're saying proof that morals are relative? If morality is objective then everybody would have the same standards of justice.
>>77425073
>Daily reminder that this was all foretold by Albert Pike.
>The plan is to provoke fighting between Christianity and Islam, ultimately ending all religion
>this was planned centuries ago!
"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."
>>77424049
If religious people just stopped being so anti-science and anti-totalitarianism then I would respect them more, but fuck anyone who believes a book written thousands of years ago is applicable for us today
>>77441234
No dude, we don't know if consciousness is an emergent property of a sufficiently complex information processing system, or if it is something outside of that that an information processing system picks up like an antenna.
Consciousness can be defined as what it is like to be something, i.e., is there something it is like to be a bat? Yes. Is there something it is like to be a rock? No.
>>77441670
O don't believe you remind people of this daily.
>>77424049
btw, the SJWs I know are all Christian
>>77425073
the retention rate for Islam is horrible. 7/10 converts to Islam leave within the first 2 years, and 9/10 are gone within 5-10 years.
The grow of Islam is solely due to birth rates
>>77441794
I mostly post this on /x/ but thought this thread needed the information.
>>77441747
Interesting, desu I don't particularly view knowing if consciousness is real or not as that important of an issue as regardless if consciousness is real or not, the end result will be the same and we can't really change the outcome or find a way for it benefit us, it's just useless infor, however I will still keep searching for the answer or thinking about it simply because of my quest of knowledge. One question I have is whether there are different levels of consciousness and if so what the highest level is.
>>77441670
Is that Inanna in the bottom right?
>>77442179
You are totally missing the point. No one is denying consciousness's existence. Like you said, I think therefor I am. I am talking about where it comes from.
Yes, there are levels of consciousness, but it isn't exactly quantifiable because due to the nature of consciousness, it can not be observed from the outside.
>>77424049
"atheist" don't care about any other religion other than Christianity
They're stupid, incredibly stupid. Why give them a second thought, just leave them.
Notice how nobody mentioned any form of spirituality when all those faggots were blown up in Florida..
They were atheists. By their own lack of beliefs their deaths don't matter. Their vigils are like clapping at a movie screen; meaningless
>>77428994
>And we know from studying animals, that there is so much more that we are able to observe than they can, based on the limitations of biology. So to ignore that fact and believe that we can somehow observe all that is knowable, or predict it with math is absurd.
this. anyone who has a basic understanding of cognitive/neuroscience or bioengineering recognizes there is a necessary barrier to that which can be "known" in the traditionally objective sense.
The purpose of the Scientific Method is to reach that which can be objectively or epistemologically known, while denying phenomenology. You can't deny the phenomenology of another without calling into question the integrity of your own.
I understand that Science had to discredit religion for reasons of political power, but if "there was no God" to begin with, why would any theory whose power is solely based on logic try to prove that which it considers as logically nonexistent?
In order for people to "convert" to Science, scientific workings had to be mediated in a way similar to how religious teachings were. Science was built upon free inquiry but it performed the same anti-phenomenology tradition of the Church where things have to be understood a certain way in order to be understood at all.
>>77424049
then why are you still an atheist cuck?
fuck you.
at least you realized why religion is important. took you long enough, degenerate brain-fart.
>>77442452
Alright that makes sense
10 000 years to GULAG OP
the revolution cannot be stopped
well get the Christians fist, than the Muslims they protect
Cлaвa Cтaлинa
>>77442652
well put. Like I said, the fact there are taboos in science is very telling. I remember hearing Michio Kaku saying that mushrooms destroyed your brain...fucking really?
>>77424049
>1 post by this ID
>>77436038
>Atheism is not the problem.
stfu. it's a huge problem because thanks to the fedora pope, christianity has been discouraged way too much in the west. now we have a religious vacuum that islam desperately wants to fill.
>hurr itz nod te prablemz
yes it is. fuck your dumb shit.
>>77424049
>>77441930
that is, in countries where you can leave without being killed.
>>77424049
>Human beings need spirituality.
Correct.
Most people who call themselves 'Atheist' today are not mentally sound enough to take it seriously. It's more of a 'rebellion' thing, and instead of focusing on building themselves up as better people, they obsess with taking down religion.
>>77430407
Science doesn't seek to dismiss spirituality.
Science is only the study of the physical and natural world. I.e. facts & evidence.
I like Sam Harris and am glad you mentioned him. But even he agrees that things like meditation and prayer can be dissected via science (neuroscience specifically). It's not some God or higher power that makes us feel happy after meditating, it's just our anatomy.
No religion on Earth is correct. You have people in every religion who are happy and "feel" the peace that their religion brings them.
At the end of the day though, you can't base your entire life around something that may or may not be true. You should always be interested in the truth, and not just speculation.
>>77424049
I could not agree more. When I was an edgy teenager I used to think it so cool to rebel against my parents and shit but I really went through a personal crisis coming out of high school and yeah man I see what you mean.
All this sjw bullshit stems from the lack of spirituality in modern man. They're looking to fill the void but just keep growing it. They water the darkness and in doing so create a black hole that just sucks the life out of everyone. We are beyond apathetic, we are detached.
>>77430512
There is some argument to be made that humans on a global scale need some belief in a higher power.
We're the only animals that we know of that can ponder on our own mortality.
Because people know they're going to die, the belief in an afterlife is just something to keep the masses from loathing and depression. It's a hard pill to swallow that this is it, we're all going to die and there isn't going to be any life after this one, even though it's the truth.
>>77443510
Science produces hard liners as well though and is certainly not s doctrine somebody should live by. Making a science out of everything isn't exactly productive either, you'll grind yourself into despair
>>77443510
>You should always be interested in the truth, and not just speculation.
While that is a noble cause, most of humanity is not capable of handling it. Mass indoctrination (hopefully peacefully) is the best way to give the masses a sense of purpose and to seek a peaceful, happy lifetime.
>>77443724
It's inconsistent with living that's why. Accepting death contradicts living life and creates the conflict in the first place. Understanding death doesn't make death easier if anything it just creates "nihilists" who walk around detached from reality and incredibly heartless in their attitudes towards others. This becomes more apparent the more materialistic a society becomes in terms of its existence.
The Soviet Union was heavily materialist based for example and life was a commodity not an actual experience.
>>77424049
I'm an atheist. Can confirm.
>>77443832
Society is not composed of philosophers. The majority of people merely seek happiness and comfort. Whether this is bad or good is largely irrelevant but the bottom line is turning the masses into material machines doesn't produce an "enlightened people's" if anything it has the opposite effect and starts rotting society from the inside out.
The Soviet Union didn't just fail because of economic reasons, no Idea like that does, it died because every ounce of humanity has withered and there was not a purpose beyond being a commodity.
Its time Christianity was replaced with a faith that is spirituality satisfying but not full of bullshit.
Here's my recommendations.
1) Take the best shit from all the faiths and solidify them into a moral code. But leave God out of it. We Humans make the fucking morals because its in our interests to do so.Just accept that these morals are just unofficial human laws by which we live to ensure everyone gets along with each other.
2) Now accept that there is a God as a spiritual entity, something which we can sense, and in some manner gain personal strength and spiritual satisafaction from. But one which has absolutely in interest in the bickering of Men, or directly intervening in our lives in some physical manner.
3) Leave all the fucking cult bullshit out.There is no reliance on some fucking prophet or earthly representative. No Jesus figure. No Mohammad. No Bhudda. Accept that some people may have a heightened sense of experience, insight, or understanding with God, but for fucks sake don't attribute some special holy reverence to them.
4) Last but not least. Fuck off with the Holy books. Ones' connection with God is entirely personal and relies not one iota on some crap that is proclaimed to be the last definite word on the subject.
>>77444212
Again society is not composed of philosophers and your religion is already surpassing that of normal human behavior. We have been turning people into Gods since the day we decided to call one of the many Chief.
>>77444204
My bad, I didn't clarify enough. I guess we're on the same page: religion, especially Judaic-based ones, are usually the best to keep a happy, productive society together. Atheism is not for the masses.
>>77444004
I believe in some people that could be true, but believing in no life after death doesn't take away the pleasures of love, happiness, and pleasure that we experience on a daily basis.
Yes one day our life is gonna end, so in the mean time enjoy it and all of the good things it brings.
I'd agree that in some people in can bring extreme nihilism and depression and in other bring overindulgence, only living for self pleasure.
But I think the common man would do just fine finding a balance
>>77444212
So basically new agism then
>>77444388
I don't think it's necessarily "Judaic" based ones either considering the Hellenic traditions existed far longer than modern Judeo religions.
>>77424049
It took you until 33 to figure this shit out?
Wew lad
>>77444388
The problem comes in when these bullshit religions are based on a book written by mortal men who didn't know everything. And since we're in the age of information, all it takes is a google search to find things in the torah, bible, or quran that isn't accurate, thus more and more people are leaving abrahamic religions.
Islam is a bit different since it's also a political ideology and leaving the faith is punishable by death. So in Islamic countries, you have people who don't believe in it, but don't speak against it since they're likely to be killed.
>>77444419
The common man always has though. Even in the days when religion was at its strongest life was still life for the majority of people.
The issue is a society based on the idea, ultimately, that life is death. We have always resisted this and will continue to do so for the simple reason that we wish to avoid the end.
>>77444507
Is it? I don't anything much about "New agesim". Just thought it was a bunch of ditzy rich bitches getting into crystals and shit like that.
Nah, fuck that. I'm not talking about quackery as a substitute for God.
>>77444679
So what is your stance on it then? You seem to not believe in any religion, but argue that religion is best for humanity as a whole.
>>77424049
Embrace the light anon.
The Bible tells us the signs of the end times would be that Israel is reborn as a nation, there would be a falling away from Christianity, an increase in violence, sexual immorality, war, famine and natural disasters and a resurgence of the antichrist religion of Islam.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com
The preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
- 1 Corinthians 1:18
>>77444330
You wot mate?
I dont give a fuck about the plebs, let them worship Mary, or prayer to some mutli-armed elephant deity. I'm talking about a faith based on sensible moral principles, one that embraces God with rational thought rather than irrational thought.
>>77425073
Islam is indeed the antichrist religion.
Check-out http://www.beholdthebeast.com to see the precision of prophecy if you have any doubts.
>>77433009
Same thing with Islam. Allah was the moon God and was the chief deity of the Quraysh tribe (Muhammad's tribe). So it's pretty obvious why he says that Allah is the one true God. And since he says there is no God except for Allah, then Allah gradually evolves from solely the God of the moon, to the God of everything.
>>77444855
What was the true benefit of religion? I answer: religion brought unity and therefore harmony but above all it brought community and therefore trust.
This in turn brought about everything that we know today. I am skeptical of religion naturally as most modern young adults are but ultimately I see the benefits. The Soviet system which tried to renounce religion similar to the Atheist movement of the early 2000s failed because it had that odd effect of actually pulling people apart and alienating them. Despite the propaganda it was a very lonely place.
One of the biggest issues I see facing the modern world is the idea of Community. I believe that without it man naturally deviates into self annihilation. Look at Rome for example, arguably the greatest civilization that will ever walk this earth. They had a very strong and heightened sense of community brought about through a unity in religion. It really started to collapse when they diluted this idea (the Roman religion began to essentially annex other gods) and overall weakened the sense of community.
>>77445001
You don't live without the plebs and it takes a truly wise man to understand this.
>>77445001
>a faith based on sensible moral principles
You don't base a life philosophy on moral principles, you mong; that should be the other way around.
>>77424049
Actually Atheism is only growing whiling Christianity is shrinking decade after decade. Poll after pol, census after census is showing this.
Christians are full of shit in the extreme, almost every facet of their religion is a lie or based on lies. From your creation myth to even the history of Jesus you have gotten it all wrong.
If you can't live without believing it's lies to make yourself feel good, you are mentally ill and not fit to live or thrive in society. Real men find their own motivations and desires, rather than prostrating themselves to a death cult which preaches sheep-like obedience (exactly what the powers that be want in their slaves).
You blame a lack of "spirituality" (IE the belief in lies to make yourself feel important) for the apathy you claim to see in society, when the truth is most people are just as motivated as they were before. The only difference is that they are now more selfish and heartless than ever. And that isn't atheism's fault, that is Capitalism's fault. People are trained and fleeced like cattle, used by the rich and hung out to dry. They cannot pursue their own interests because the society they live in is governed by the religion of money, and in order to get money you must work for the rich billionaires and bankers. Consumer capitalism is collapsing and people are caught in the rot of it and confused. Christianity is a false hope though, it only leads people back into chains.
>>77445337
I agree with this to an extent but still argue against Atheism. At the end of the day, and it is quite telling from your post, all you really have in your heart is your spite.
>>77444881
>there would be a falling away from Christianity, an increase in violence, sexual immorality, war, famine and natural disasters and a resurgence of the antichrist religion of Islam.
When has this not been the case? The past has been way bloodier than the present and yet, no end times came. We actually live in one of the most peaceful times in history.
The reason this warning exists is because it is a regular cycle of history that the con artists who created this religion use to scare the dumb masses into submission by pointing at unrelated events and saying "see this is what happens when you displease god!". You gullible fools are falling for one of the oldest tricks in the book.
>>77424049
I had this exact disgust for fellow atheists around that time, and I had only been an atheist for about 2 years. Couldn't really quantify it at the time as you have, just took notice of what I referred to as Militant Atheism. My own best friend, who became atheist after me, got obsessed with Amazing Atheist first thing and immediately went about arguing with anybody he could to destroy their faith. It got to the point over the years where I don't even call myself atheistic when asked, just agnostic. I'd much rather not be associated with the assholes, and it's easier to explain that I really don't know if there is a God or not. Granted, the term agnostic generally means opposed to organized religion, but I'm only opposed to the ones that can't exist alongside others in peace or otherwise do harm to their followers.
>>77442809
>Christians
>Not the biggest cucks on the planet.
Your religion tells you to turn the other cheek and bend over backwards for some all powerful alpha-male masculine figure in the skies. It's a religion of submission and you know it.
Your pagan ancestors were conquered by the Roman catholic church and given a choice, bow down to our religion and it's one true god or we will kill you. The people who were pussies and bent over rather than die for their beliefs are your ancestors. Being a submissive weakling is in your genes.
>>77445557
This is anything but peaceful. You can see the reality hidden behind the current political strife. There is a slow but steady blood thirsty war cry emitting from the mouths of angrier and angrier youth and old alike.
The sides are getting more and more radical with every passing week. Any notion of peace has been an illusion.
>>77445422
>all you really have in your heart is your spite.
You know nothing about me, I can get quite firey and angry but their is much more to me than that.
>>77445163
bingo, Social Trust is the key to Civilization, only if I don't have to constantly be on guard against the other hitting me over the head and taking my stuff (always the shortest way for individual gratification), there can be the kind of cooperation and structures that make modern life and human progress possible.
I still have hope that social sciences will come to acknowledge this and presuppose this for all other social theories and solutions.
>>77445887
Despite the fact that Christian societies built the modern world? You can dislike Christisnity but to call it a religion of submission is rather illogical especially coming from someone who claims to know their history.
>>77425940
i remember putting my dick in that thing so many times that it eventually ripped and the liquid got into my dickhole and burned, so i had to go to the hospital where i was given an ice pack. i waited till it melted then did the same thing again till it ripped and the liquid got in my cock hole again
>>77445971
You have posted nothing but spite against everyone.
>>77445983
Once technology makes colonization of other planets a reality things will change. Everyone of like minded opinions can go their own way.
