I've read the bible several times, really like psalms.
However, I am mostly gnostic and have been successfully involved in the occult for some time.
Because of this, I need a hands-on and practical use for religion.
Yet I feel a connection to the imagery, and the community of orthodox Christians.
So how can I engage in Christianity as a seasoned practical occultist, who is used to being a PEER of God rather than as a SERVANT of God?
TL;DR - How can being a christian benefit me?
I want to convert, but "accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior" just isn't informative or practical enough to steer me that way.
Also orthodox Christianity general.
>>77060628
>willingly wanting to be a sheep
kys now
>>77060773
I'm looking to attain higher spirituality in general, coming from a shitty cultureless American family. Truly, leading me in any direction at all would be a great help.
>>77060628
>So how can I engage in Christianity as a seasoned practical occultist, who is used to being a PEER of God rather than as a SERVANT of God?
This is ,if not outright heretical, worrying to say the least and I'm at risk (Matthew 7:6) but if you truly want to be free then abandon all your occult practices, surrender yourself to God repent and pray for forgiveness and salvation with all your heart, soul and life.
>I want to convert, but "accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior" just isn't informative or practical enough to steer me that way.
That's the first and final step, first you need to believe, to trust what Jesus said, that what he says is the Truth and then accept it; living it and doing it.
(Tbh I'm looking for traditional women to raise a traditional family, and women who are into the occult are edgy satanist whores. Want to fully engage in a traditional spiritual culture, as long as I can identify with it successfully)
>>77061666
>Those numbers
Like I said I'm at risk
>>77061666
Figured, actually, that saying that would incite that response. It's just what I'm used to.
Read Matthew 7:6 and I guarantee you all I want is for good, and not for earthly pleasures.
So that phrase just means that he was right, and to know and believe his words?
>>77060628
Drop absolutely everything you said in OP. Unless you want to be a """""""""""""""""""""""""""""Christian""""""""""""""""""""""""""" in which case, well, it won't be a good thing for you. I cannot condone it.
>>77060628
What do you think Christianity is? A tool for your own satisfaction? You can't conciliate Christianity with the occult. Pick one and only one. If you think you can't abandon that habit don't worry, no one is really capable of abandoning sin while they are wandering alone, but when you find God you will be empowered to fight sin. People think that Christians are sheep but it is quite the opposite. You are, at first, a sheep of sin, you have no choice but to sin. I mean, most sins are not unlawful, so why would you not commit them? Once you find God you will have the freedom of choosing not to sin. It is not imposed to you, it is simply a new option, a new path you can make for yourself.
If you like the Bible you might want to be a Protestant (mainly Baptist) because Protestants are all about following the Bible. If you like imagery then you will have to choose something else as Protestants don't really abominate imagery but they are not too fond of it.In my opinion Catholics and Orthodox give way too much attention to imagery though, but it's up to you, most denominations are valid as long as they adore Jesus and don't disrespect the Bible.
You convert not because you want to satisfy our occultism desires, but because you gave up on your life of sins and want to walk a new path. You realized that as a human you are prone to mistakes and you acknowledge that God can save you from that.
Yes, it really is as simple as getting on your knees, closing your eyes and praying: "I regret all my sins and I repent, please forgive me Lord, I accept Jesus as my Lord and savior", there's not much else to it. After that I recommend visiting a church weekly to be part of their community and learn more about Christianity.
Good luck anon, I'll be praying for you.
For someone who just wants to get baptised straight away so that I don't go to hell if I die soon, which church should I do it at? Does it matter?
>>77063149
You don't need to be baptized to not go to hell, you just need to repent from your ways and accept Jesus as your only and sufficient savior.
Yes, every Christian must baptize, but if you never had the chance it is not really your fault. When Jesus saved that bandit at the cross he went to heaven without baptizing.
Do not think either that you can just baptize and never think about Christianity or God again. I guarantee to you that many people who baptized will likely not see heaven anon. It's the sad truth. As for which Church, just choose the denomination that appeals to you the most, doesn't really mater, but beware that Catholics don't practice baptism like it is instructed in the Bible (Jesus was baptized with immersion, Catholics don't baptize with immersion though). I'd be biased if I told you to go to a Protestant church though as I am a Protestant myself, so look it up and make your choice.
>>77060628
>>77062255
>TL;DR - How can being a christian benefit me?
>Read Matthew 7:6 and I guarantee you all I want is for good, and not for earthly pleasures.
Not losing your life and soul for once.
Matthew 16:24-28
>Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.
>For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.
>For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?
>For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.
>“Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”
I WILL HAVE CHRIST ON A LEASH
>>77063149
Do you truly believe? If you don't being baptized won't help.
>>77060628
>orthodox Christianity general.
Try reading Fr. Seraphim Rose, Alexander Schemann. Listen to Fr. Thomas Hopko podcasts on ancientfaith.com, read the blogs on deathtotheworld.com. Go to Divine Liturgy and become a catechumen. You have like 6 months at least to decide if you want to be an Orthodox Christian. Sounds like you're a bit of an esoteric so it should benefit you either way. It's a worthy endeavor OP.
>>77063682
I thought maybe it would help me believe.
You're a fool. No man can give you faith, it must come from within yourself.
Faith is something that nobody can touch, feel or see. But for some reason it is also something that can assemble entire armies in its defense.
Give it thought.
>>77060628
It's the only way we defeat Islam which is trying to destroy our entire society. EMBRACE CHRIST
>peer of God
>peer
>God
If you were a god why would you need religion?
>>77063859
You are better off talking with a pastor/priest and asking for orientation if you really have no idea what to do in order to believe.
Or you can just pray now and ask God to guide you. I'll pray for you too anon.
>>77064218
Okay, thanks. I'll try praying.
>>77060628
The occultism you practiced sounds similar to Hermeticism or Mandaeism to me.
Christianity makes me feel safe, even if I die without accomplishing my petty life goals I will still live in paradise with Christ. At least that's what I believe. My beliefs have shaped psychedelic experiences I've had that have had spiritual significance and through the years, I have matured spiritually and I feel a greater connection to God through my thoughts and feelings. Being a Christian is challenging because there are a lot of "Christians" that will believe lies that have been added to their denominations. I'm not perfect, but I'm happy and that's all I really want and that is what God has given me.
>>77063149
Watch this video anon
https://youtu.be/FlJvDz3ZtTw
...wow, thank you for your kind replies anon.
I just realized that the truth and the way to be is all throughout Matthew. I'm going to be reading Matthew slowly to fully understand.
>>77063680
Is truly hilarious to me at this point.
The errors in my first post are both sickening and comedic.
I'll be doing my work, and I believe guidance from there will find me.
Thank you so much, for your answers.
Bless you all.
We're all guilty of sin.
Christ's perfect life and sacrifice atone's for the sins of the elect.
Before we all incarnated on Earth we all pre-existed in heaven.
We are the literal children of our heavenly father.
There was war in heaven and two-thirds of us sided with God's firstborn son Jesus, while the other third sided with another son Lucifer.
Our eternal fate was then sealed two thirds of us would be elected to have our sins atoned for us by Jesus and receive everlasting life, the other third would be cast into hell.
>>77063859
>>77064218
Do this, read the New Testament. Being baptized won't make you believe. You come to believe, then you are baptized.
>>77064676
Sauce? Would like to know more about this... Never heard this
Sooooo I'm baptized Roman Catholic.
Some of the posts here are suggesting believing before baptism.
Should I be baptized again?
>>77064642
Not only Matthew but also all gospels, they are all different point of views of the same story, meaning their content is mostly the same but each gospel has one or two exclusive points.
>>77064775
He is a Calvinist. Don't listen to him.
>>77064887
>Should I be baptized again?
Read the Nicene Creed. "I acknowledge ONE baptism for remission of sins."
>>77064887
Absolutely.
>that catholic practice of baptizing people when they are just born
I've no idea why they do this, it has no effect at all if the person doesn't believe
>>77065040
...oh no, actually?
>>77064915
>>77064642
And not only the New testament, but the Old Testament too.
>>77064775
Always doubt any source that isn't Biblical by the way. What that anon said is not in the Bible. I mean, it is true that the devil rebelled against God and a huge amount of angels sided with him (something close to the proportion of that anon's post) but what he said about us being the portion that sided or didn't side is not specified in the Bible.
>>77065117
If you wanted to become Orthodox you'd go through a sacramental ritual called chrismation. It's the blessing and seal of the Holy Spirit.
>>77064775
I looked into Mormonism for the first time recently and it explains a lot of this, but part of it I deduced on my own and couldn't find anyone else highlighting this in any searches I did online.
>>77065117
You need to be baptized correctly. I would like to know, why were you baptized if you didn't believe?
>>77062552
This. Its written in the bible that if you're a Christian and continue to sin against Gods plan God will let you die to save your soul.
Maybe Christ represents some sort of cosmic phenomena that gives anyone a dormant power they always posessed.
Maybe Christ is a puppet of a demiurge.
If you have actually been involved in the occult for some time, then why are you asking keyboard brownshirts and neet misanthropes about truth, instead of (((meditating))) on it?
>>77062826
>>77064775
>>77065213
We are not angels. It tells us this in the Bible.
Matthew 22:30
Hebrews 12:22-23
We will be met by “myriads of angels” and “the spirits of righteous men made perfect”—these are two separate groups.
>>77065213
Our pre-existence is specified in the bible and the Book of Mormon really explains a lot if you read it.
It also prophecies that America would be the leading nation and generally a force for good in the world.
>>77065308
Read "Letter to a CES director" before you go futher into the LDS "faith"
Maybe also read "Joseph Smith and the magic world view"
Maybe also research Freemasonry, and why JS and most Mormons are Masons.
>>77065654
When we're not in human form and are in heaven we're angels.
48 years old. Been practicing witchcraft since 13. No interest in Islam, Judaism, or xianity.
>>77064676
>>77065359
Because I wanted to hear what believers feel, and how they got where they are.
How does everyone here feel about current pope?
>>77065717
>our pre-existence is specified in the Bible
False. That is a man-made idea with absolutely no Biblical basis. In fact, it can be easily debunked with the Bible, see: http://www.gotquestions.org/pre-existence-of-souls.html
>the Book of Mormons says so
But that is not the Bible.
>It also has the prophecy that America would be the leading nation
That's nice, but remember that like any other man-made empire America is destined to fall sooner or later
>and be a force for good in the world
Not really happening. America looks more like chaotic neutral right now.
>>77060628
while not a Gnostic, carpeumbra on tumblr has a decent amount of resources, as he combines many practices with his catholicism. and really, anyone in his circle of friends may be of good use, as there's even an Episcopalian fellow who is a Cabalist as well
>>77065955
Nope. Completely contradictory to what the Bible says. Stop this.
>>77066047
I thought you wanted to be a christian? Catholicism has little to do with the bible.
Don't listen to the damn protestants whatever you do.
>>77060628
>"I want to fit in and be a good sheep bitch worshipping a fictional, tyrannical, jew character, but I don't want to actually admit that :4)"
t. christcucktobe
>>77066349
Didn't know this.
Was generally curious how people thought of him.
I think he's an abortion.
>>77066422
second that shit. prime example being
>>77066349
>>77066464
Do you ever cut yourself with that edge?
>>77066464
And what would you suggest in place of that?
>>77066067
From the link "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you" - Jeremiah 1:5
>>77066047
>>77066519
As a Protestant I think this Pope has some very good ideas about peace and unity. Problem is, he goes way too far.
However, he goes too far, to the point of dropping Biblical values and secularizing Christianity to appeal to groups like Muslims and homosexuals.
For example: Notice how most of the anons in this thread told you that you should abandon occultism if you want to convert. And that even if you convert as an occultist, you will likely abandon it sooner or later if you truly converted. The Pope would probably say "Oh it's okay join us we accept you the way you are there's no need to change", which is honestly a sweet speech, but not true. If you read Matthew you'll see that Jesus really talks about abandoning your old sinful life to live another. So yeah, I don't like what he is doing, he should be more careful with his words.
Also this: >>77066422 is an exaggeration but partially true.
Let me explain the drama between Protestants and Catholicism so you can choose which one you'll side with:
The Catholic Church is logically the first Christian church, it began from Jesus' disciples and went on and on through generations. As time went on they developed traditions (which is the biggest problem here). Those traditions grew within them and started bearing as much weight as the Bible.
At some point the Catholic Church diverted from the path of righteousness and started practicing terrible deeds that contradicted the Bible. Priests would go to brothels regularly, the church would literally sell forgiveness for future sins ("Want to lie to someone? Buy this and you're forgiven once you do it automatically"). They got away with that because the Bible was on a foreign language the people at the time didn't know.
Luther happened. He saw their wicked ways, translated the Bible and funded Protestantism, which followed the Bible exclusively and no man-made traditions.
(continuing in other post)
Realizing after posting this, that what I sought before were terrestrial powers and philosophy, and that what is truly to be sought is spiritual connection to God.
Really enormously grateful for your posts, help, and especially prayers.
>>77065325
Is this anon telling me that if I don't do this right, I'll die soon?
That honestly is a bit spooky.
>>77066954
>>77066519
See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
(Colossians 2:8)
Today the Catholic Church improved a plot and fixed their most glaring mistakes, but they still follow the tradition. People say Catholicism is not about the Bible because if you become a Catholic you'll learn much more about tradition then about the Scriptures themselves. Some of those traditions do not meet the Bible's words (although Catholicism can do mental gymnastics to make the discrepancies disappear, again I am probably biased by saying this as I am a Protestant)
>>77061133
If you want higher spirituality, do a shit ton of psychedelics (100% serious). Become a Psychonaut.
>>77067112
He isn't and I honestly don't understand what his post is saying. You won't die if you continue sinning. You also won't live eternally if you stop sinning. Jesus had an early death exactly because he was a saint.
Christianity is what led to the decline of Rome and is now trying to lead the decline of the west. Fun fact the first romans was ruled by kings who was black. Tarquinius superbus the last black king of rome was overthrown by the whiteys who ruled rome for a couple of centuries. Until sulla the great black general overthrew the whiteys and exterminated them in the social war. Now blacks was running rome again and a whitey wasnt seen in the region again until it was sacked by alaric and the whiteys eventually killed or sent the black romans to africa. Julius caesar was black
>>77067183
I have.
It's helped me understand a lot of the symbolism I've needed to tweak this terrestrial reality around my Will.
I'm trying to abandon that for something more concrete, with more of a community, especially a community of anti-degenerates.
I've had little luck finding non-degenerates to talk about psychedelics with.
>>77067163
Brazil guy you didn't answer my post. You said our per-existence isn't true but Jeremiah 1:5 says "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you".
>>77067411
God is omniscient, not only did he know you before you were born, he also knows everyone that will be born in the future. That doesn't mean you existed as an angel during the times when Lucifer was still an angel in heaven, it simply means God had knowledge of your existence (and also all your actions and values) before you came to be.
Also
>before I formed you
Further reinforces that you didn't really exist until the moment when God created you.
You can argue that if God knew you before you were born, that still means you existed, but we'd just be arguing about semantics here, what matters is that nothing supports the view that we were angels. Especially because the Bible makers clear angels are a different group from us.
>>77067409
>I have.
Explains a lot.
>>77063737
ancient faith is full of great podcasts, I recommend anything with Dr.Rossi.
>>77067409
I don't know what this 'degeneration' is that you speak of.
>>77067409
Check this out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcN2i9GKsFQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBYlHPAss2U
The amount of people recommending non-biblical material to OP scares me. And also disappoints me.
I have nothing wrong against third party material if you already studied the Bible and have a strong faith, but why would you recommend it over the "real deal" (the Bible) to someone who doesn't know any better?
>>77067345
WE WUZ EMPERORS!
>>77067750
Hippies focused on sex and acceptance of unacceptable things.
No need to elaborate further.
Also before anyone asks, debatably attractive male who has had his share of sex, and is done with the game and the women who demand it.
>>77067345
>they were black!
Look up the painting of any emperor in Google Images.
>>77060628
>I want to convert
No you don't, you want an excuse for why you will not commit
The simple fact is, if you care about the western cultural identity you should respect Christianity at the very least.
No one needs to convert you, it has to be found within yourself.
Reminder: You either believe in the Five Solas and SEA TULIP or you're in error.
Five Solas
Bible Alone
Christ Alone
Grace Alone
Faith Alone
Glory to God Alone
SEA TULIP
Supralapsarianism
Eternal Justification
Active Decree
Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints
I'd like to add onto this that I'm dating a SJW atheist. I love her, and she's relatively untouched by these things (not oversexualized, etc), but she seems to desire what they preach, and some of her desires seem as wrong as the law allows.
This has been a torment and has turned me away from the modern world even deeper.
>>77068384
Read the rest of this post. I've seen my errors, perhaps not fully, but pretty extremely.
>>77068436
Can anyone confirm this? What is this?
>>77060628
I can't make you believe. This shit's not some game or fashion trend. Read the gospels and do your best to live it. Live to glorify God and help other people. Cut the vices down as much as possible. If this leads you to feeling closer to God and you can read or say that Jesus is Lord, and died for our sins and was resurrected, then you are a Christian. It has to happen through you and takes a genuine will to know God
>>77068770
Is helping degenerate, terrestrial, pleasure-centric people to live more easily the work I must do?
That's such a sacrifice for me.
>>77068575
What he said (Bible Alone, Christ Alone, Grace Alone, Faith Alone, Glory to God Alone) is completely correct. Follow that. You can extract those five points from the Bible itself.
As for the rest of his post, I don't understand what he means
>>77068384
>no one needs to convert you, it has to be *brainwashed in to you from birth*
fixed
>>77068437
>I'd like to add onto this that I'm dating a SJW atheist
Good thing you are only dating, dump her. Not wife material.
> I love her
...
> she's RELATIVELY untouched by these things (not oversexualized, etc), but she SEEMS to desire what they preach
It appears you are trying to rationalize why you are dating a SJW whore.
Dump her, join your local church (denomination doesn't matter as much as you think) and date a girl there.
>>77068960
So I don't need to go full orthodox to find a church that doesn't see pleasure as the highest virtue?
Scared of wasting my time on a corrupt church.
>>77068923
Do not do what >>77068960 is saying. If you abandon her you will regret it forever. Try to guide her to the right path like some anons here did to you. If she refuses, then there is really not much you can do, but you must at least try (and insist for a while). I've known people that prayed for their familiars daily for over 40 years, and it eventually worked. Heart warming stories.
>>77060628
just check out your local Orthodox Church (if there is one). they're the most based imo and don't have the faggy decentralization protestants have, but also don't have the literal god given emperor of religion like catholics
>>77068575
>>77068919
He is talking about Calvinism which has absolutely no Biblical basis.
>>77069110
I agree, it seems more of God to try to enlighten her.
She's extremely young, 8 years younger than me.
She seems to have a streak of rebellion in her though, and has told her friends that I'm "silly" for wanting to live rural.
Idk I'm inclined to leave and have been for a bit. Just can't help but think she'll eventually come around.
Whatever though, that's not the topic at hand.
Really enjoying all of this help from you guys. You have big hearts to give your time to this thread.
>>77069065
>So I don't need to go full orthodox to find a church that doesn't see pleasure as the highest virtue?
I leave you with this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism#Christianity
>>77068880
I don't know, just try to be selfless instead of selfish whenever the opportunity arises. You obviously need self preservation, but just do what you can, when you can. Volunteer at a soup kitchen if you have it in you or something. It honestly feels good to help, it feels like you're doing what you should be doing. That's what I started doing and I eventually became a Christian. You don't have to be perfect, but you should focus on trying to not be like the people you described basically
>>77068575
It seems kind of old and catholic but those are generally christian things.
That other guy is right, true Christianity is within your self. Individualism is crucial and remember Jesus was a humble man.
>>77068575
TULIP
http://www.fivesolas.com/tulipscriptures.htm
SEA
http://www.predestinarian.net/articles/sea-tulip/106315-in-defense-of-sea-tulip-gospel-predestination-introduction-and-part-1-supralapsarianism
http://www.predestinarian.net/articles/sea-tulip/106317-in-defense-of-sea-tulip-gospel-predestination-part-2-eternal-justification
http://www.predestinarian.net/articles/sea-tulip/106321-in-defense-of-sea-tulip-gospel-predestination-part-3-the-active-decree-of-god
Eternal Justification and Active DecreeRomans 8:29 - "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters."
>>77068770
Ain't no being ever died and been resurrected. Fuck that and fuck you.
>>77068923
I wasn't a Christian until 2 years ago and I was raised by a hippy mom who didn't really like Christians that much
Can you explain that then?
>>77068068
I see nothing wrong with intercourse. What in and of itself is wrong?
>>77069254
No biblical basis?
TULIP
http://www.fivesolas.com/tulipscriptures.htm
SEA
http://www.predestinarian.net/articles/sea-tulip/106315-in-defense-of-sea-tulip-gospel-predestination-introduction-and-part-1-supralapsarianism
http://www.predestinarian.net/articles/sea-tulip/106317-in-defense-of-sea-tulip-gospel-predestination-part-2-eternal-justification
http://www.predestinarian.net/articles/sea-tulip/106321-in-defense-of-sea-tulip-gospel-predestination-part-3-the-active-decree-of-god
>>77069538
He did and he was. We'll have to agree to disagree
>>77069538
I hope at some point you will change your mind.
>>77069422
Does this mean helping the godless, and the terminally misguided, and the homoerotic dancing fools I'm surrounded by?
Living in one of the most liberal places in America.
Fun bonus : I disguise myself as their ally regularly. I would be demonized and friendless if they knew how I truly felt
>>77069065
>I don't want a corrupt church
There's no such thing as corrupt denomination (save for some shady ones). You need to understand that Orthodoxes/Catholics are not "Bible only" though, they also value tradition greatly.
>>77069254
No Biblical basis? Okay.
>Bible Alone
Self-explanatory
>Christ alone
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
(John 14:6)
>Grace Alone
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
(Ephesians 2:8-9)
Bonus points to the passage above, it is one of my favorites and debunks MANY Catholic/Orthodox doctrines.
>Faith Alone
See the passage above.
>Glory to God Alone
So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
1 Corinthians 10:31
Looks like Protestantism is pretty rooted in the Bible.
I'd dare say that Protestantism and sola scriptura are synonyms.
>>77060628
Why not go pagan or hindu?
>>77069666
Hello, Satan. I've been telling people to ignore you from the beginning. Go away.
>>77069352
Asceticism is a valuable ritual.
>>77069770
Calvin was wrong. Every denomination is completely against it.
>>77069717
Anon read the gospel (Matthew I guess) and see who Jesus walked with.
He didn't walk with rich people full of faith. No, he walked with the faithless and poor ones to bring them to the light. Being a Christian is about doing that. You need to bring the word and the good news to those who need it the most.
>>77069674
I'm with the moral teachings, respect raising up your fellow man and living by a code. I try to live my life that way too. But the resurrection and virgin Mary are two things I don't see myself believing, which bans me from being a Christian.
>>77069908
>Calvin was wrong
I won't argue with you on this point because I'm a Baptist (which are a derivation from Lutherans). What I am saying is that the five solas are Biblical principles. Protestantism has Biblical roots. Saying that Calvin is wrong doesn't debunk Protestantism as it also has many denominations.
>>77060628
Just be a deist
>>77069790
Tried both actually. Pagans are too sweaty and metal head for me, and Hindus are great and the symbolism in their deities answers the "WHY DOES GOD ALLOW BAD THINGS" question that many of the misguided have.
Unfortunately, there are so many denominations and contradictory belief systems, not to mention no centralized text or belief, that it's hard for me to identify with.
It helped me understand many of the secrets of Christianity, but I can't shake this feeling that it just isn't the Way.
>>77069717
Not everybody is as terminally misguided as you might think. I was lost as shit and a bit of a scumbag before I became a Christian. You've just got to judge for yourself person by person I guess. There is definitely a line. If somebody is taking advantage of you too much after a while then it might be time to remove yourself from that person, especially if you think it's hurting you. But yeah, as a general rule, you should still try to help them, where you can. They need it more than the saved honestly
>>77068923
>>77069614
Make that two. I was raised by a single mother who was an atheist. The hedonism pushed me over the edge by the time I reached my adolescence I decided to join a Pentecostal church and met my current wife there.
No regrets.
>>77068575
>Can anyone confirm this? What is this?
it's protestant nonsense. don't buy it.
there's a lot to learn but protestantism makes no sense in light of history:
http://shamelesspopery.com/reason-1-to-reject-the-reformation-the-canon-of-scripture/
http://shamelesspopery.com/reason-2-to-reject-the-reformation-scriptural-interpretation/
http://shamelesspopery.com/reason-3-to-reject-the-reformation-the-visible-church/
http://shamelesspopery.com/reason-4-to-reject-the-reformation-ecumenical-councils/
http://shamelesspopery.com/reason-5-to-reject-the-reformation-the-church-fathers/
http://shamelesspopery.com/reason-6-to-reject-the-reformation-patristic-scriptural-exegesis/
http://shamelesspopery.com/reason-7-to-reject-the-reformation-history/
http://shamelesspopery.com/reason-8-to-reject-the-reformation-heterodoxy/
http://shamelesspopery.com/reason-9-to-reject-the-reformation-logical-fallacies/
http://shamelesspopery.com/reason-10-to-reject-the-reformation-the-grand-finale/
>>77061726
I think you just helped me realize something, Anon. I was raised catholic and turned atheist/agnostic/deist, but i still want a woman who follows catholic or at least christian values. I go to art school and am surrounded by "liberated women" that just want to ride endless cock and that isn't my bag man. People can do what they want behind closed doors but i want a woman that will be mine at the end of the day, and Christian women are like that and many still like being freaky too.
Thanks for letting me think things through more. Maybe i should go back to church.
>>77070045
In the post you referred to I was only speaking of Calvinism, TULIP. Which is not Lutheran.
>>77069947
I feel, then, that I should be preaching God rather than Jesus, as the main image of attainment, no?
People run from the word Jesus in these trying times.
Nobody runs from the obvious Truth. The word God hasn't been demonized quite so badly.
Why speak a language people will refuse to hear?
>>77070137
>it's nonsense, now let me quote a bunch of non-biblical sources
THIS is what is wrong with you people. Use the Bible instead of other sources.
>>77070051
Christianity has more denominations in it that disagree with each other than an orlando victim has shoes.
What about buddhism? Christianity is completely anti-occult, and the deeper you venture into both the more you will learn that Christianity is mainly conposed of pagan stories that were rewritten to fit their agenda.
>>77070220
that little thing you call the bible was made by catholics
>>77063149
yes, get baptised in the Catholic Church. Don't believe protestant lies
>>77070015
That's completely understandable and I was the same way before. If you have any desire to know more you should just try and read the gospels of the bible (first four books of the New Testament) and just see if anything rings true inside of you. Keep an open mind and heart. Life is crazy lad, crazy things happen. That's called a miracle for a reason
>>77070186
Oh damn, am I already doing God's work?
:)
>>77070215
Why are you so inclined to spouting unknown heresy.
No one can attain the image of God. Nor can anyone attain the image of Christ, not truly. That is why Christ came to the Earth and the first place. To fulfill the laws we could not and be our advocate to the Father.
Jon 3:14-16
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.…
>>77070289
All that matters is the baptism of the Holy Spirit
>>77070215
>I should be preaching God rather than Jesus?
Jesus is God and God is Jesus. Holy trinity. Pic related.
It might be difficult to understand the holy trinity if you are an adult. Makes it much easier if you were taught as a child. Think of a cube of ice. It's just water in solid state. Under the right circumstances it becomes liquid, but still water. And it can even become a gas, but it's still water, just in another form. God is the same. God can be the Holy Spirit, the Father (which is quite literally God) and the Son (Jesus). It's still the same entity.
That is the easy part to understand. The difficult one is that Jesus is the one who forgives your sins and allows you to connect with God (Father). Which sounds confusing at first as they are the same. What I'm saying is that you can't talk about salvation without talking about Jesus. His sacrifice in the cross is what allowed our sins to be forgiven through God.
>>77066954
>unironically saying that the bible has more weight than Tradition
>not knowing that Tradition made the Bible
>>77070287
Recorded and bound? Sure. They did not write it. They also did not let other people even read it. If the reformation never happened you would not have a Bible and you would not be allowed to read it either. Jesus said to spread the Gospel to all of creation. What they did was wrong.
>>77070204
Lutheranism is okay to you then?
>>77070504
and that's baptism
>>77070519
Is it just me or does Christianity sound like one of those homestuck style stories where the author wrote himself into a corner and is pulling shit out of his ass and telling you it makes sense and too deep for you, and all his fans agree because they don't want to seem dumb, even though it is.
>>77070287
More like made by God. Catholics just transcribed it.
>>77070590
Yes, of course. I really just do not like Calvinists because they lead others to "possible" damnation.
>>77070261
I have in fact learned this, and I've heard that St Paul wrote this version of the bible to bring Jewish values to the pagans, even appropriating many of their symbols so that conversion would be familiar and easy.
Buddhism is nice, but I have too much fire to be non-active.
I almost don't feel like discussing Buddhism further but rest assured, I do see it as a legitimate path to attain peace in life. I have a desire, however, to continue a western tradition so that it will not become extinct at the hands of the demiurge that has wrapped its knuckles around the neck of a holy human society.
In short, I am afraid Buddhism would steer me towards the east while the west burns, and I want to be on the battleground to save this civilization, by fighting if I must.
>>77070683
A collection of written documents inspired by God but definitely not made by God directly. Nigga you value a fucking library more than God ffs
Yeshua was an apocalyptic prophet who was a follower of john the baptist and preached about the end of days in which Jews would re-inherit their land from the romans. All the son of god stuff was added later. Prove me wrong.
Protip
>you can't.
>>77070624
No, that's baptism by water. You have the Holy Spirit when you know and love Jesus in your heart and know and confess freely that he died and was restructured for your sins. If the Vatican were to be nuked today, Jesus would still exist. He always has and always will
Now feel free to call me a heretic and be hateful and say I'll burn in hell if you want :^)
>>77070775
Then I would recommend not becoming a Christian. It is only going to get worse. Part of being a Christian is knowing this, and knowing that things are going to get much worse. Read Revelations.
>>77070471
You can see, from my prior upbringing, why I'm inclined to think this way.
But Jesus wasn't about Jesus. Jesus was about the word of God. Jesus is a pivotal, important figure, but it seems to me that God is the Way, and God is the word people would be more inclined to gravitate towards.
Am I wrong to philosophize the best way to communicate with the youth of today?
Have you met them?
Also let me be clear that I'm 100% with you and your corrections of my actions and philosophies are true, needed, and appreciated.
>>77070775
Wanting to remain western really restricts you to judaic or celtic religions. You seem compatible with druidry to me since you seem to enjoy seeking knowledge while also accepting the occult.
I suppose there are also native indian religions, but that's predominantly ancestor worship.
>>77069908
Every denomination that is in error that is.
Refute the overwhelming biblical basis for calvinism.
http://www.fivesolas.com/tulipscriptures.htm
Protip - you won't because you can't
>>77070934
Since you have made a completely baseless assertion all I need to do is make an opposite assertion.
>>77070681
Not really, it can be explained, but it takes way too many paragraphs to do a good explanation. For example, if you ask why God allows bad things I can either give you a half assed explanation in two paragraphs that will leave you wondering and sound like a homestuck story, or I can write a literal scientific thesis with dozens of pages that explains in detail everything about it.
Explaining the holy trinity is simple. Explaining why Jesus and God act like separate entities in salvation requires first explaining why Jesus' sacrifice is needed for salvation. And that requires explaining about the ancient sacrifices of animals that were done before Jesus was around. Which leads to explain why blood is needed to purify sins and achieve salvation. And then you have to wrap it all up and explain how Jesus' sacrifice in the cross translates to that. It's not easily done in less than 2000 words on a 4chan post.
>>77070886
>you value a library more than God
God's word says that what is written on the Bible is the absolute truth, which is why I value it deeply. But in no way is it more valuable than God.
What is God to you anyway? The Church? The tradition?
"However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands." - Acts 7:48
The cult to buildings, traditions and denominations is frowned upon. You have to follow the Bible, which is sort of what Protestantism is about (especially Lutheranism)
As an occultist, my best advise for you would be to look up the enochian system of magic and Kabbalah and Solomonic magic in general.
Along with the many esoteric forms of Christianity.
>>77070946
>You have the Holy Spirit when you know and love Jesus in your heart and know and confess freely that he died and was restructured for your sins
lmao no. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the sacrament of baptism itself.
>If the Vatican were to be nuked today, Jesus would still exist. He always has and always will
Sure, but without the Catholic Church you wouldn't be able to get the sacraments and souls would go to hell.
>Now feel free to call me a heretic and be hateful and say I'll burn in hell if you want :^)
You have to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, if you don't do it that's your bad. Remember that when you stand before judgement you won't be able to say to Jesus "I didn't know". You know about the Catholic faith, but you refuse. There is no excuse for that. May God have mercy on your soul.
>>77070519
No this does make perfect sense to me.
Those things describe aspects of God, but they are not the same thing as each other.
Just like you and I are human but I am not you and you are not me.
Also I'm not even giving a (You) to the first anon that replied to this post of yours, but wow what a thoughtless post. Some people will do anything to plug their ears and to remain utterly terrestrial.
>>77060628
why would you not want to see yourself as made in the image of the most powerful, beautiful, creative force in all of the universe? simple!
>>77071112
Out of curiosity, why Calvinism and not Lutheranism?
>>77060628
Waddup OP
I know what you feel. I too am an occultist, although I feel really drawn to Christian symbolism.
I have noticed that a lot fellow practitioners seem really out there. The women especially just aren't my type, I feel much more drawn to conservative Christian women. Has this been your experience as well?
>>77070934
go to bed bart ehrman
>>77060628
Is it just the imagery that has lead to you wanting to be a christian or is there another reason?
>>77060628
>how can I engage in Christianity as a seasoned practical occultist, who is used to being a PEER of God rather than as a SERVANT of God?
Orthodox here.
You need to trust in God. Cultivate a life of prayer. Call upon God to help you.
The modern world tells us that power is from the bottom up. But those of us who are in the Church, the Body of Christ, know that the universe is hierarchical. God, the Holy Trinity, created everything, and therefore knows the purpose of everything. True fulfillment is found in Him. God is the master, because He is before all things, and He created all things.
Christ came to the earth and redeemed our nature in Himself. He said that we needed to have faith in Him. The aim of the life of a Christian is to "return to the source." St. Athanasius the Great said: "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."
>>77071009
Please explain more.
You know this, and are still a christian, are you not?
How can I not do the same?
>>77071022
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
The word became flesh.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Don't worry about all of that yet. Study the Bible as much as you can. Lead by example. Eventually, something will come up, and you will be able to introduce Christ into a conversation. Perhaps someone will admire you for who you are and ask what you believe etc.
>>77071253
I refuse because it doesn't make sense. I do have fear and I do tremble, partly because of liars like yourself that are all over the planet and also because of the wrath God will have on people if they don't accept Christ, but then I remember God's grace and love, because I've known it. Jesus is Lord. Hopefully you're saved, hopefully I'm saved, and we'll agree to disagree. God bless :)
>>77070519
Sorry but thats heresy (modalism in particular) Your view holds that the members of the trinity are mere forms that God takes rather than God himself.
Water molecules can be a liquid, solid or a gas but not at the same time unless you have more molecules at different temperatures but then that would leave you with polytheism.
>>77071262
>Those things describe aspects of God, but they are not the same thing as each other.
That is also incorrect. Jesus *is* God not just an aspect of one God.
>>77071548
>>77070775
>I have a desire, however, to continue a western tradition so that it will not become extinct at the hands of the demiurge that has wrapped its knuckles around the neck of a holy human society.
Because you don't want what is going to happen, to happen. You could do it, but you have to drop all this as well.
>>77071061
I am 100% European.
I struggle with whether to follow the traditional spiritual beliefs of my family, or going deeper and following the traditional spiritual beliefs of my ancient ancestors (appropriated Nordic gods).
I'm leaning towards Christianity, since paganism didn't seem like a nice fit, at least in terms of the values of their community.
A better, less degenerate fuck-hungry Asatru community maybe would have kept me.
Damn, anons, doesn't being raised in a multicultural (read: cultureless) society suck when trying to find religious cultural identity?
>>77071664
you just called me a liar, but it is you who lies to himself. May God have mercy on your sould
>>77071112
Calvin has already been refuted endless times.
http://www.radicallychristian.com/reasons-why-i-am-not-a-calvinist
Protip: Calvin is directly responsible for the damnation of others by teaching false doctrine.
Will you continue to do the same?
>>77071770
Give asatru anither shot and try to block out the wiccan sex-cult influence.
>>77071548
What that anon is saying is that you won't save Western civilization by becoming Christian because the Bible's prophecy already states that the world is going to burn.
Major economic crisis, millions (billions) of deaths. And the one who is going to ""save"" earth, temporarily at least, is the anti-christ, who is anything but Christian obviously. If you are a Christian you are aware of that, so you do your best to spread the word to as many people as possible can be saved.
>>77071692
The water thing is not meant to be taken literally, it's just a way to introduce the concept to people who don't know it.
>>77071820
*soul
>>77071217
Not OP but got any book recommendations? I'm a filthy neophyte btw so I would prefer the fundamentals
>>77071820
I'm not lying to myself. I know the truth in my heart. You're lying again because you don't even know me. Jesus died for our sins and God wants to save us. Do you not believe in this?
>>77071217
Hoping you're not pic related.
Was into Kaballah. It eats your soul. It's very high Magick, but its consequences are extreme and I really felt them, which led me away.
I have a book called "Resurrection of the Hero" by Miguel Serrano, that talks of Esoteric Kristianism. Is this what you mean?
And if I do this kind of heresy, am I accepted by the church and its community? Pretty sure I already know the answer
Not sure if you guys can tell, but a spiritual community is important for me in all of this, especially since I'm surrounded by godless people it seems
>>77071950
>The water thing is not meant to be taken literally, it's just a way to introduce the concept to people who don't know it.
I think its dishonest and tricks people. The Trinity is a divine mystery that will forever be above logic and reason and can only be known through revelation.
>>77071299
Because Luther's theology wasn't correct. He did a great service in highlighting the errors of the Catholic Church and beginning the Reformation, but with Calvin began the working out of Reformed theology, which swept the western world until the 19th century began to see a perversion of the gospel and truth.
>>77071969
I have so many books I could recommend you where you'd see the real "results" that you seek.
After my mind has changed quite a bit since the beginning of this convo, I'd rather not lead you astray, lest you suffer as I do and as I have
Faith is required by God. We need to submit ourselves to Him, because he knows the purpose of things. To deviate from God, or think that He is just another spirit, some animistic deity worshiped by one geographic locale is the miss the point of what that God said. God told people throughout the ages that He is the Creator.
Christ said: "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life." Through Christ, the Incarnate God, we are brought close to God, and receive His Divine graces. Christ cleanses us from sin, which we cannot do ourselves. Prayers are not sets of magic words that we can utter, they are communications with God. The act of prayer is the act of us turning to God and responding to Him. In prayer, we trust in God. We present our problems to Him instead of trying to be self-reliant. We admit his supremacy over everything, and speak to Him in love. We do not recognize God as an evil totalitarian, because that is not part of His nature, but rather we recognize Him as the perfect one, the master of all, the creator of all that is good.
>>77071253
>>77071965
>>77071820
>The Catholic Church is what saves souls!
Anon...
He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9)
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)
>>77072082
Can you give a more solid example of where Luther failed?
>>77060628
>Make me Christian, /pol/
ignorance is bliss... and christards have bliss on tap!
>>77067757
Ding ding ding ding ding ding
>>77071770
Europe replaced paganism with the Truth: Christ.
The reason Europe is great isn't because of the reasons cited in Jared Diamond's toilet paper, nor is it genetics. Europe is great because Christ made it great.
>>77072218
>he thinks the dark age is Christianity's fault
Let me give you a history lesson.
You had this thing called Roman Empire. You also had barbarians.
They invaded Rome. They also had a very bad practice of using books to fuel bonfires/campfires, which means a lot of scientific advancement would be lost.
What did Christianity do? They took all the books to churches/monasteries and started copying them, thus keeping them safe from Barbarians. The dark age kept going on because of the barbaric invasion (which forced the population out of the big cities and in fact transformed them into ghost cities) and also because of all the plagues. It's unrelated to Christianity. All Christians did was preserve the knowledge until the world was a better place.
>>77067757
kek, no thanks
Name some lies put out there by Satan and are still there to this day. I'll see if I've fallen for any of them.
>>77072011
May God have mercy on your soul
>>77072210
May God have mercy on your soul, and forgive you, for you do not know what you are doing
>>77071835
At the heart of the matter. To reject reformed theology is to reject God is sovereign and make God weak and impotent.
Also try reading ROMANS 9 and tell me it doesn't state what it clearly states!
>>77072143
Then I'll ask you this
Where did you start your path and with what methods did you find success?
There are so many differing systems, and while I have a very loose understanding on many, I want to delve deeper.
>>77071201
>What is God to you anyway? The Church? The tradition?
Welp, the Bible is one of the written document of Tradition
>"However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands." - Acts 7:48
"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it." -Matthew 16:18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBlwxqqAprQ
>
>>77072644
Anon, saying that you need the church to be saved is the same as saying that Jesus' sacrifice wasn't enough.
>>77072526
Hard to point out what lies a being that exists since an undetermined amount of years (certainly before Earth was formed) created. Some say that anything that diverges from God is Satan's doing but I am not sure how I feel about blaming everything that is bad on Satan. Never really thought about that either. I am sure of one thing though: What diverges from God is simply that, something that diverges from God, and thus bad by its own nature. It's like darkness, which is just the absence of light.
>>77072526
bikes and lawnmowers are basically the same thing
coupons are the only way to save big at the produce aisle
you have to pee while sitting down
>>77072464
>What did Christianity do?
- burnt witches
- beheaded heretics
- cloistered sexuality
- molested generations of boys
- retarded evolution
- indirectly resulting in many plagues
>triggered
>>77072218
How do you even quantify scientific advancement?
>>77072218
That chart is based on nothing. It's meaningless.
What is even represented on the Y access?!? How is that precisely quantified?
>>77072871
>Anon, saying that you need the church to be saved is the same as saying that Jesus' sacrifice wasn't enough.
Jesus founded a Church on earth, that is the Catholic Church. If you are not in it, you are disobeying him. Don't complain if disobeying him brings you his wrath
>>77062826
>An intelligent and well studied comment about religion in pol
>get's completely ignored...
So the rumors are true, this is becoming Reddit after all...
Where should I go when this place finally becomes kikebook tier? Is there another place where I can speak the truth under the disguise of the meme?
>>77071921
Is there even a community though?
A non-whorish community of normal people capable of doing good work, capable of success?
It was not possible for me. I've learned much about the runes and their secrets, it felt like such a waste to find out the types of people that uphold such beliefs.
>>77072871
So whatever is against God = Satan's doing? Is this actually what Christians believe? If this was true then most people would be the AntiChrist, which would mean Earth is completely fucked.
Another question if you don't mind: Why is it that God waits till almost all people on Earth lose faith (reject God) before releasing Satan from the Abyss? If he wanted to save us then he could do it without doing this.
>>77072988
kek
>>77073228
I didn't ignore him. That post was earth shattering for me.
>>77060628
I would say you should make pilgrimage to a holy site. I myself am planning to go to St. Andrews cave.
>>77072830
>>77073101
And what is the rock that Jesus speaks about?
Hint: It's cited in the Bible over five times.
The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, my God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold. (Psalm 18:2)
“There is none holy like the Lord; there is none besides you; there is no rock like our God. (1 Samuel 2:2)
"The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief corner stone." (Psalm 118:22)
"He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone." (Acts 4:11)
Jesus is the foundation of the church. Anyone can build a church if they use the Bible/Jesus as the foundation. Yes, the Catholic Church was the first one and it definitely did wonders to the world, but how can you justify them when they started disobeying the Bible?
Keeping the Bible in a foreign language so the people wouldn't understand it when the scriptures clearly tell you to spread the gospel. Selling forgiveness in exchange for money. Selling objects and advertising them as "pieces of Jesus' cross" or "part of Jesus' clothing". Performing traditions that are not in agreement with the Bible such as baptism without immersion. Can you really say that all those things are correct just because "it is Catholic"?
>>77073019
>burnt witches
>beheaded degenerates
>???
>got tons of boipussy
>contributed greatly to science
>kept population at managable levels
What's not to love?
>>77073374
No, I specifically said in my post that SOME people believe anything against God = Satan, but that I am not particularly fond of that.
However, understand this: Jesus said in the Bible that you are either on his side or against him. Meaning that anyone against him IS sided with Satan. That much is a fact stated in the Bible.
>it means Earth is completely fucked
It is, read Revelations
>Why is it that God waits till almost all people lose faith before releasing Satan?
What do you mean? As far as I know, no one knows when Satan will be released, but it has something to do with when the Gospel was preached in all parts of the world (I don't remember the exact wording/passage), meaning that there is still a lot of work to be done.
>>77063149
Cathocucks just sprinkle water, I guess that is fast enough.
>>77073625
This. Just asked my mother if I was submerged. She said water was sprinkled on my head at age 7.
>>77072687
What you think it states is wrong.
Why? Because of what Paul writes in Romans 10
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
If you wish to hold that it is predestined, Paul must be in error here, otherwise he would not pray for them to be saved. Either way, you would still have to Paul is error, one way or another because of what you believe. I don't have to do that. Not only that, but God wishes for ALL to be saved.
1 Timothy 2:3-5
This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,…
To continue believing what you believe you also now have to say that God is in error, if all people could not be saved, God would not wish for it. God can never be wrong. But we can, and you are.
>>77072871
>Satan was created before Earth
Incorrect.
IT'S GOING VIRAL GUYS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vev-OzHQy94
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaWlBrpwJpU
>>77073747
Explain?
And with Biblical sources please. I'm tired of people that say something that contradicts the Bible and then say "Oh here is my proof (Youtube video)"
>>77073446
As usuall you twist Scriptures for your own good.
Jesus is the cornerstone of our faith, true. He is the unmovable mover that created everyhing. When he creates His Church, i.e., the physical representation of his followers that is commanded to keep him commandents, he did so upon Peter as its rock. He gives Peter a new name, as God has always done when has given an eternal commitment, or rather a covenant, to someone. The fact itself that Simon's name was changed into Peter is proof that he is in fact the rock Jesus was speaking about. He does not say "you are the rock of the faith". Because that Rock is in fact Jesus. No, he says that Peter is the rock upon which he will build his Church.
Fact is, if Jesus founded a Church, and didn't believe that faith in him as an abstract word was enough, who are you to believe you know better than Jesus himself?
May God have mercy on your soul
>>77073747
>>77073813
Trying to determine when God created the angels is somewhat tricky because anything God did "before the foundation of the world" puts the event outside of time itself. Time and space are characteristics of our world, not God's. He is not limited by hours, days, and years as we are. In fact, the Bible tells us that "with the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day" (2 Peter 3:8).
We do know that God created the angels before He created the physical universe. The book of Job describes the angels worshipping God as He was creating the world: "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone - while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?" (Job 38:4-7).
If we consider the function of angels, we might conclude that God created the angels just prior to the creation of mankind because one of their duties is to be "ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation" (Hebrews 1:14). We also know they existed prior to the garden of Eden, because Satan, who was formerly the angel Lucifer, was already present in the garden in his fallen state. However, because another function of angels is to worship God around His throne (Revelation 5:11-14), they may have been in existence millions of years—as we reckon time—before God created the world, worshipping Him and serving Him.
So, although the Bible does not specifically say when God created the angels, it was sometime before the world was created. Whether this was a day before, or billions of years before—again, as we reckon time—we cannot be sure.
>>77073608
I can't remember which verse from the Bible says it, but it says something about God waiting until most of the people on Earth reject God before releasing Satan/The AntiChrist (can't remember which one).
>>77073019
You are forgetting the place that Christianity had and still has in history
I won't be carried away by your Marxism and rule my life by materialism, that's living in a constant state of dishonor and indignity
Classic Christianity is what kept the Muslim barbarism and unhealthy way of living out of Europe, Christianity was the only religion that prohibited making deals with Jews for obvious reasons
All of you have to remember that without Christianity the Europeans would still be fucking savages and the Americas would be filled with cannibals and pagans. You have to remember that the roman church is the one who gave work to the artists, philosophers, scientists, etc.
Christianity is the ONLY religion that actually unified an entire continent of people that hated each other, Europe is (was*) great because of Christianity, it was that common faith that kept the pagan and wicked religion of Islam out of and warned us about the usury of the Jews Europe and made the white man a civilized society but also made him a ruthless warrior.
That's why the impostors hate so much the white race, they were the only ones that did not capitulate and the ones that took the legacy of the kingdom of heaven
Today, the Christianity is fragmented and this fragmentation was fabricated. With the heresy of Martin Luther and the french revolution and many other factors destroyed Christianity and with it, Europe.
The Roman Catholic Church is just a bunch of heretics, pedophiles, Freemasons and Jews.
The Orthodox Church is just as corrupt.
The Lutheran heretics are immerse into a mistake.
And the conservative groups that refuse to follow the Vatican II are fighting each other because of sabotage.
But Christianity has seen herself in worse situations.
I feel that someday, maybe 100 years maybe tomorrow the only true religion of peace will re-emerge and will cleanse the world of the pagan/satanic Islam and the Jewish impostors.
>>77073970
>If Jesus founded a church
True
>and didn't believe that faith in him as an abstract word was enough
What you said DIRECTLY clashes with this:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)
A clear and pure contradiction, no way to do mental gymnastics to escape that.
>>77072464
It's better than Islam, Christianity preserved sacred artefacts of the past and the writing of the Romans and succeeded in building a scientific community. Muhammad literally destroyed everything his path and eventually had a scientific awakening only to be squashed by Ghazli.
>>77073426
Then I congratulate you my friend, sadly, the rest of pol is either "Trupf is Gad" or "Women ar ebil"
>>77071969
Three Books of Occult Philosophy is a decent start tbqh
>>77072059
Kaballah is technically for Jews only, but Cabala, Qabala are perfectly open to others
>>77066047
I was basically a non-believe who stuck the Christian label on, but then I looked at the evidence of Jesus and was convinced. I did a ton of other religious research as well and saw the theological and truthfulness of Christianity and found the others wanting.
>>77074219
It's not a contradiction. Works are the result of genuine faith, not the other way around.
>>77073019
>indirectly resulting in many plagues
Nigga the Mongols did that. They literally used dead bodies of people infected by the Bubonic plague as a Biological weapon
>>77074219
there is no mental gymnastics. I can quote you many more verses of Scripture that rebuke that verse of Scripture you quoted.
You are simply refusing to accept the truth.
You will agree with me that if you have faith you will also do works as a result, right?
Do you know what "sin" is? Sin = disobedience to God.
If you sin, and therefore disobey God, then you have no faith because by sinning (therefore by your bad works) you are showing that you really have no true faith after all.
Jesus founded a Church on earth and you are disobeying him, not only by refusing to be part of that Church, but refusing its doctrine and even slandering it. Instead of following the Church Jesus founded, you are following yourself.
Isn't this a disobedience to God? Isn't this a sin? It is.
If you are not part of the Catholic Church, you might as well be saying to God "I don't believe in you". If you are not part of the true Church of Christ you don't have faith, and therefore you don't have Jesus.
Matthew 7:21
>Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
>>77074676
I agree that works are the result of genuine faith. And the passage says that faith is what saves. Faith, literally.
"You have been saved through faith"
>>77074782
Works pleases God but faith is being saved by Christ.
>>77074782
I believe faith implies listening to Jesus when he tells you to join His Church.
>>77074869
Work also proves the faith in god.
Actions speak louder than words.
>>77074766
>those who sin have no faith
Your word is quite poisonous.
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
(John 1:8-10)
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
(Romans 2:23)
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him."
(John 3:16-17)
The Bible makes it clear that EVERYONE sinned and that the ONLY WAY to achieve forgiveness is THROUGH JESUS.
>>77074620
If you looked into the origins of christianity and came away more convinced than before then you didn't read to deep into anything. if anyone wants to believe in christ and continue being a devout christian then you should never ever look into the early church.
>>77074988
>faith implies listening to Jesus when he tells you to join His Church
Anon what? The mental gymnastics are so intense here that I don't even know if that post was a joke. Very well, explain this then:
"Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
(Romans 10:9)
Once again, no church involved, just sheer faith.
I know that it is difficult to realize that you were wrong when it comes to religion, but you don't need to be afraid of turning in to God's word. It is the truth. If God's word shakes your beliefs, that means your beliefs are wrong.
"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them." (Matthew 18:20)
Any church that has Christ as foundation is legit. Churches doesn't save. Jesus does.
>>77075090
>The Bible makes it clear that EVERYONE sinned and that the ONLY WAY to achieve forgiveness is THROUGH JESUS.
I didn't imply that Catholics don't sin, you got it wrong. Let me rephrase so you understand better.
Do you agree what in order to have faith you have to obey God? Do you agree that if you disobey God it means you have no faith?
Jesus founded a Church (mind you, singular "Church", not "churches"). By rejecting that Church, you are also disobeying him. Your disobedience to God is seen as an act of unfaithfulness.
If you want to show God you have faith, you must be part of the Catholic Church.
About sinning, absolutely right. We all sin. That is not a good excuse to disobey God and not believe in him. Without the Church you have no faith, and therefore your sins cannot be forgiven.
Not gonna lie, Jesus looks very sexy in that painting. I would hold his nice body too if he was in my lap!
![[laughter stops].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/6XpuS1d.jpg "[laughter stops].jpg")
>>77075461
>>77060628
Start taking communion multiple times a day. Assert your authority through Jesus. Stay focused and grounded in your faith. Even Jesus was tempted, so watch out, the rulers of this world (jews that worship satan) are very unfriendly. Be aware that the blood of Jesus washes away all sin and no force except for Jesus has authority in your life. You have to assert this, no matter what the situation seems. So you recognize that Jesus owns your body and your soul.
Sorry for rant. I'm on my phone
>>77075374
>understanding simple implications is mental gymnastic
Yes anon, all you have to do is accept Jesus as your Lord.
The natural consequence of accepting him as your Lord is obeying him when he literally tells you he made a Church.
Like, what do you think he made it for ?
>>77075410
>Do you agree that in order to have faith you have to obey God?
No, I would agree that in order to obey God you must have faith though. And that obeying to God comes naturally from faith.
>Do you agree that if you disobey God it means you have no faith?
Absolutely not. Peter denied Jesus three times, meaning he disobeyed God, are you going to say he had no faith? Remember that by denying God he also committed the sin of lying.
>If you reject Jesus' Church, you disobey him
The problem is that you are under the false assumption that Jesus' church is limited to the Catholic Church. Read the later half of this: >>77075374
>>77075640
>Why do you think he built it for?
That is a good question. A church serves for many, many purposes. Forgiving sins is not one of them, that is a task assigned to Jesus exclusively as seen in the Bible. The church is still a space where you can build a community, have some form of structure that allows for better organization to coordinate missions to spread the gospel, adore and glorify God, practice charity, pray, reunite with others to study God's word, etc.
But forgiving sins? Only Jesus can do it.
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9)
"My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous." (1 John 2:1)
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God," (Ephesians 2:8)
I really love Ephesians 2:8. All glory to God. Amen.
>>77073446
>And what is the rock that he speaks about?
It was a Metaphor for Peter as the one who will lead God's Church. Take note that Jesus spoke in Aramaic and what he refers as "rock" was Peter. Aramaic word kepha can be translated as petra in Greek and petra means rock in English. If we translate this, Jesus basically said "You are Kepha (Peter) and on this very kepha I will build my Church". So Peter is actually the "rock"
>>77074766
If you say you don't ever sin then you're a liar, sorry. We all sin, but we should do our best not to because we know God wants us to live righteously. Jesus died for our sins though because he loves us. Can you honestly tell me you never sin?
>>77075642
>No, I would agree that in order to obey God you must have faith though
sure, that is what I was saying, we agree
>and that obeying to God comes naturally from faith.
Agree
> Peter denied Jesus three times, meaning he disobeyed God, are you going to say he had no faith?
He had faith, but by that disobedience he showed God he didn't, and therefore lost his salvation. That is why God resumed his salvation by overturning that denial. He asked him three times if he loved him, and then gave him the command to feed his sheep (sounds like something the vicar of Christ, leader of the Church, would do, doesn't it?). That way, not only did Peter reaffirm his faith with words, but by following the command Jesus gave him, he was also able to obey to Him through his good works and therefore be saved (John 21:16)
>The problem is that you are under the false assumption that Jesus' church is limited to the Catholic Church
Not a false assumption. God is absolute truth, there is no relativity in Him. He is not a matter of opinion. All protestant Churches have different doctrines and beliefs. They come up each with their own interpretation but there is no interpretation of absolute truth. Something is either true or not. That is why the Catholic Church exists. To preserve the truth that Christ gave us. If you don't have 100% the truth of the faith you don't have Jesus, because Jesus is the Truth, not "my interpretation of truth". Declaring Him as your Lord and Saviour with your mouth, like a magical spell that can absolve all your shortcomings, but escaping from keeping His commandments and obeying his decisions that created a physical Church to preserve His doctrine on earth, won't save you.
>>77076130
>If you say you don't ever sin then you're a liar
I never said such thing, though
>>77076544
So you do sin then? According to you that means you don't have faith. Can you explain this?
>>77076328
>Peter lost his salvation
Oh really? He "lost his salvation"? That concept is absurd, you can't lose salvation once you attained it because the Lord never abandons you.
"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out." (John 6:37)
"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life."
(John 6:47)
"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."
(John 10:28-29)
Once you are with God, God won't cast you out. Similarly, no man will be able to cast you away from God, not even yourself.
>The Catholic Church is here to preserve the truth
History shows that such is not what always happened.
>Declaring Jesus as your Lord and Saviour won't save you
"Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
(Romans 10:9)
>>77060628
Proof for the resurrection of Jesus:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0iDNLxmWVM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0tyVdnIU9A
Proof for Genesis being the closest out of all religious books to what actually happened in real life:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsbj7EN1Uzs
Watch these videos in your spare time OP. Very informative and nice to listen to.
>>77076999
God bless you :)
>>77075461
>>77076685
You misunderstood my point. I guess I shouldn't have mentioned sin, as it has confused you.
Disobeying God means you don't have faith. Sin literally means "missing the mark". That means, you are still trying not to miss it. Disobedience to God is unrepentant sin basically.
Do you know the Catholic Church exists? Do you willfully refuse to be part of it? You are hitting the mark, and being unreprentant of your actions. Therefore you are disobeying God and are not saved. You can still repent, be part of the Church, and accept the dogma of the faith as Jesus intended if for us. But if you die without doing any of that, you don't have faith in God's eyes.
>>77076999
>Oh really? He "lost his salvation"? That concept is absurd, you can't lose salvation once you attained it because the Lord never abandons you.
The Lord never abandons you, but you can lose salvation by abandoning him.
>"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life."
If you are not part of the Church you don't have faith, you don't believe, and therefore don't have eternal life. Being part of the Church is not just a physical thing. You also adhere 100% to its doctrine, which is the Truth as Jesus intended it for us to have. By not being part of the Church, you refuse that truth, and if you don't have truth, you don't have Jesus, who is Truth itself.
>John 10:28-29
He mentions he will give them eternal life, and then immediately says nobody will take you away from the Father's hand.
Clearly he is speaking about how it is in the afterlife, not on earth. Plenty of people who were Christians, and became atheists on earth. Did Jesus forget his promise? He let them get away from His Father's hand? Reality clearly rebukes your interpretation of Scripture.
>no man will be able to cast you away from God, not even yourself.
I guess hell does not exist according to you
>History shows that such is not what always happened.
no
>>77077319
God bless you Ameribro
>>77062826
Bless you Brazilian anon
>>77077224
IP by far the best of the two though the one with WLC is great too. But I find Gary Habermas' books like The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ is hands down the magnum opus
>>77077450
You are twisting literally everything that you and that Brazillian has said. You did, anybody can see that
Goodbye and thank God that Jesus has freed us from death. May God bless you :)
The occult is nothing more than demonic entities. What, you think Satan comes at you with tooth and claw, in fear? No, he makes offers and sweet promises. Sure, use a little magic, gain a little insight, gain a little luck. And what happens? You start thinking "hmm, maybe it's all just energy and ritual, maybe there is no God..." and boom, he has you.
The Bible refers to death as being like sleep. You said you've read it, so you should know. Sleep. No consciousness, no awareness, nothing. No ghosts. So why do people report seeing spirits of deceased people? Because these are demonic entities masquerading as human souls in order to lead you down a particular belief system about the afterlife, one without God. The Bible explicitly warns you against spirits and magic, which yuuki evidently chose to ignore. When we die, our souls stay with God, where we will be given new bodies "like the angels" and resurrected at the throne of God on Judgement Day. Whatever you've been talking to, it's not what you think.
>>77077450
No, you are twisting completely what the church was supposed to be. The church is not where you find salvation because salvation is found in Jesus as I demonstrated several times in my past posts with Bible passages.
What is the church then?
"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God." (Colossians 3:16)
"Praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved." (Acts 2:47)
Those stone buildings belonging to the Catholic Church are NOT what God's Church is.
God's Church is not a stone building. It is much more than that.
"For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's field, God's building." (1 Corinthians 3:9)
God's church is each one of us.
"So we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another." (Romans 12:5)
"But Christ is faithful over God's house as a son. And we are his house if indeed we hold fast our confidence and our boasting in our hope." (Hebrews 3:6)
We, who believe in the gospel, are God's church. I agree completely that we have to follow Jesus' teachings and his doctrine. Where are you going to learn Jesus' doctrine though? On the Bible, there is no other 100% reliable source.
When Jesus said that he was going to build his church on Peter, I don't think Jesus was referring to stone buildings. He was actually referring to the spreading of the gospel.
What were the prime teachings of Jesus? Believe in me as your savior and you will obtain eternal life. Repent your sins and I will forgiven them. This is the gospel. This is life. Spread it. That is what Jesus taught us. THAT is Jesus' church. Spreading the gospel. Each one of us, busy at the fields spreading his word, are all part of his church.
>>77077468
God bless you too Serbiabro
>>77078015
This, I've seen literal Google Ads saying: "Do a pact with the devil, become rich and powerful". In the end I concluded that magic and demon pacts are probably real, and the devil uses it as methods to deviate people from God's word by offering them benefits in the current world. Pretty sure OP also mentioned that he had experiences with magic but it "eats away your soul".
>>77077953
>You are twisting literally everything that you and that Brazillian has said.
Not really. I just un-twisted his twisting of Scripture
>May God bless you
May God have mercy on your soul
>>77078053
>God's Church is not a stone building. It is much more than that.
Yes, it is the Truth of the dogma and doctrine as Jesus intended it for us. Which is something you don't have. Therefore you are not part of His Church.
>God's church is each one of us.
Each one is the temple of God. The Church is all those who uphold His truth. You don't uphold it, so you are not part of the Church
>We, who believe in the gospel, are God's church.
Which gospel exactly? Last I checked, protestants have thousand of different Gospels. There is only one way to interpret truth. If there is more than one, it is not Truth anymore. Jesus is truth, and protestants don't have him.
>Where are you going to learn Jesus' doctrine though? On the Bible, there is no other 100% reliable source.
There is actually only ONE reliable source on earth on how to interpret the Bible, and that is the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. The Bible was given to you by that Magisterium. You simply refuse all the rest of things it gave you. Because you are not following Jesus, but only your own pride.
> Spreading the gospel. Each one of us, busy at the fields spreading his word, are all part of his church.
You are clearly living by the letter, but not by the Spirit. Also the Catholic Church is the biggest Church in the whole world. I think you have no right to teach us about how to spread the Gospel.
>It's a Protestant vs Catholic episode
Now THIS is a Christian thread
>>77062826
this
>>77078655
No Orthidox shitposting so it's not a good thread.
>>77078508
You did twist it, whether consciously or subconsciously but whatever lol
Are you saying you never disobey God? How can it be unrepentant sin? Winning is also disobeying God...so what are you trying to say? So if I was to join the Catholic church would I still not be forgiven by God because I supposedly disobeyed him before?
>>77078872
too true
>>77078991
*sinning
Not winning
>>77078442
It's no coincidence that all the richest, most powerful people are Satan worshipping freaks. Just this week there was a satanic ritual in Switzerland attended to by some world leaders.
http://www.inquisitr.com/3165856/satanic-ritual-in-switzerland-worlds-longest-tunnel-opens-with-bizarre-ceremony-video/
It's also no coincidence that our media is saturated with satanic subliminal messages.
http://subliminalmanipulation.blogspot.com/
Play many music tracks backwards and you'll find satanic messages praising Lucifer. (For a nice bonus, play some Christian music backwards. You'll be surprised). Many celebrities openly say they have sold their soul and make satanic hand gestures such as the devil horns or the covering of the eye (Satan has one eye, the other being wounded in battle with Michael). One or two celebrities making off hand remarks? No, all of them. They all do it. When it's every single one of them every single time there's clearly something to it. You have to research this stuff.
>>77078508
So you finally showed your real side, right?
My post had several Bible citations. You gave a self righteous and judgmental passage full of hatred and threats that had everything, except, well, Biblical passages that justify your point.
Let me tell you one thing anon:
"For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12)
God's word is my sword and shield. Your judgment can't break that shield because He is the one who will judge me and your self righteousness which refuses to accept the Bible passages can't stop the sword.
"I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?" - 1 Corinthians 1:10-13
We must be one united into Jesus, not the Catholic Church. Jesus said that a house that is not united is doomed to fall.
"But he, knowing their thoughts, said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and a divided household falls." - Luke 11:17
To say that one denomination is right and all other are completely invalid is to be extremely self righteous and also to cause division. I am not saying that the truth is relative, but I think that no one possesses the truth because humans are impure and prone to failure. Jesus said that we can't understand divine things. A man-made stone building will NEVER be something as pure and perfect as Jesus' building.
