Just got into an argument about whether or not Capitalism is "for sociopaths" with my Communist friend. Care to offer any fuel to the red-pilling fire. I already discussed how anyone can make capital and how wages can easily be determined by the workers.
>>76879197
ask her to pay for your education/bills/food. tell her you really need it.
>you don't have to work for an employer! You can chose one!
Poor third world kids have little education and no opportunity to get more. Their only choice for employment is thus physical labor, being the victim of globalism that has taken advantage of their weak labor laws. Even if the working conditions are preferential to a slightly shittier gig, that doesn't make it right in the slightest. Nor does it make it okay that the factory owner is able to take the entire product of the workers labor, giving them minimal compensation . You are a big business cuck.
>>76879197
his examples exist a Communist country, mot the West lol wtf
>>76879197
Communism will just make everyone poor.
>>76879385
Well he's a guy so...
>>76879619
>Be poor as fuck
>Work like a dog so your children can lead a better life
>Children lead better lives due to your hard work
>The cycle is broken
How the fuck do you think our ancestors did it? They weren't give free money they worked like fucking demons to give their kids a better life
>>76879197
HOL UP
Soooo...
>Capitalism is evil! worked on the backs of slaves!
>And thats why there is sweat shops
>In a fucking communist country
>Because capitalism is evil because of sweatshops in communist china.
What the fuck.
>>76879700
ask him to pay for your education/bills/food. ask her if he is okay with being taxed 50%+. ask him if he is okay with paying 25% extra on all goods ordered on or from the internet. ask him if he has any examples of socialism implemented in a nation of 300 million people, with crime such as USA.
>>76879197
>sweatshops
As a Mexican ambassador in the US mentioned: "Alternative to those sweatshops aren't highly payed jobs. It's unemployment."
Useful links:
Sweatshops and Third World Living Standards: Are the Jobs Worth the Sweat?
http://www.independent.org/publications/working_papers/article.asp?id=1369
How Capitalism and Globalization have made the world a better place
http://quillette.com/2016/01/16/how-capitalism-and-globalization-have-made-the-world-a-better-place/
Retail Globalization and Household Welfare: Evidence from Mexico
http://www.nber.org/papers/w21176
>>76879991
said her again. i really picture all raging libtards as female.
>>76879197
Oh, and have this one: sweatshops dragging women in the 3rd world shitholes out of poverty
http://faculty.som.yale.edu/mushfiqmobarak/papers/garments.pdf
>>76880266
I don't blame you. If I saw the same argument without any mention of gender, I'd think the same damn thing.
>>76880226
Thank you for the links, I'll make sure to save them for the next argument that pops up (don't need all my cards on the table at the moment.
>>76879197
Just because communism is bad, doesn't mean capitalism is perfect
In some capitalist countries you are just basically fucked
>>76879197
America had sweat shops, and now we have Macy's. If communist/socialist governments didn't take citizens money they would be able to make the same transition too
>>76879991
>ask him if he has any examples of socialism implemented in a nation of 300 million people, with crime such as USA.
oh that's easy, in USSR you had gulags, the army and of course just straight up killing people to solve that problem
>>76880541
i actually considered to add in ''successfully'' but i doubted he would quote an ''opressive regime'' as socialistic.
communistic, perhaps.
>>76880462
No problem, mate. I have links for any bullshit that a commiefag will spout. Just tell me any shit he mentioned, like unions, m-muh exploitation or whatever.
>>76880819
I really appreciate it man.
>>76880462
if nothing else, you can say that you have talked with an actual dane, who lives in a ''socialist paradise'' on a mesoamerican frog-indexing forum, and he says that implementing, or even trying to implent it in the US will not just ruin the states, but also the rest of the world which largely depends on it.
>>76880712
He's the .gif related type. There's not a snowballs chance in Hell he'd admit that the U.S.S.R was "real Communism".
>>76879197
You will lose the argument because when you say:
>under capitalism you can change employer
He will reply:
>so when you allow this person to cross.borders and come to work legally in your country?
You cannot win because what you are talking about is some whitewashed capitalist dream, whereas what he talks about when he uses the term "capitalism" is the current oligarchic system that exploits countries and poor people.
So basically you two will never agree if you both stand on different semantic levels.
He might agree on some of your points of you present them the libertarian way, but you Will also have to agree with him current world is shit.
>>76881197
Venezuela is still dealing with the effects of colonialism that's why they're having problems.
>>76881123
He REALLY wants to move to Denmark, though. He's heard that "everyone's super nice", "it's like a Socialist paradise", and other bullshit that liberals push to say that Socialism is grand.
>>76881551
>He REALLY wants to move to Denmark, though
>implying they accept foreigners
It is basically THE most difficult country to migrate in in the world.
>>76881551
> "it's like a Socialist paradise"
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/02/17/politics/bernie-sanders-2016-denmark-democratic-socialism/
http://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish-pm-in-us-denmark-is-not-socialist
http://www.iea.org.uk/publications/research/scandinavian-unexceptionalism-culture-markets-and-the-failure-of-third-way-soc
http://www.bullshitexposed.com/scandinavian-socialism-debunked/
>>76881677
Even a Norwegian friend of mine, who is feminazi as fuck, told me all the Scandinavian socialism story is bullshit from A to Z.
>>76880910
Wait, how will you tell him if he's anonymous?
>>76881783
Of course it is. For americans "socialism" is just a buzzword. Older people don't give a shit about it, and the only group that actually likes socialism the most, millennials, don't know shit about it.
American education, everyone.
http://reason.com/assets/db/2014-millennials-report.pdf
>>76881551
despite us being quoted as socialistic, we are surprisingly capitalistic. its not hard to start up and have success in your own buisness or firm. not that we really accept immigrants other than those where to study. everyone is as nice as anywhere else in scandinavia id guess, but we are often gloomy, drown ourselves in pills, and the common man dislike muslims with a passion, at least compared to other nations (including nordic ones).
>knows the white devil will exploit workers
>opens borders to desperate mexicans who cant report labor abuse
>acts surprised when the mexican gets exploited
>>76881920
For now I'm here. That's enough I guess.
>>76879197
Capitalism - I dont need your handouts I can take care of myself.
Communism - I cant take care of myself I need your handouts.
Pretty much as simple as that. Capitalism can be brutal but it is the Darwinian system of economics were the strong will survive and thrive and the weak will suffer.
Communism is an economic system that wants to bring down the strong and capable to the same level as the weak so the weak or lazy dont suffer.
Communism goes against human nature.
>>76879197
You're both retarded. Sweatshops are shitty thing, he has that right, however the conditions are a result of of a markets, and those markets, thanks to globalism, expand beyond just their own countries. Globalism perpetuates these horrible conditions by allowing labor markets to be saturated with cheap labor, it steals work from developed countries and ships it cheaply to developing nations. What third world countries must do is try and focus on domestic markets if they can and most of that well simply be some mild protectionism, same with developed nations.
Just remind him that communism is really (((communism))). Both Hitler and Putin agree.
>>76882346
Jews literally created capitalism and the banking system lol wt
And Marx renounced the Jewish faith.
Capitalism is very Jewish.
The hardest redpill to swallow was that fascism and capitalism benefit the Jews more than communism.
>>76879197
>"for sociopaths"
Sounds like he already identified your weakness.
>>76879700
>Well he's a guy so...
If you can't work out how to deal with this I don't think you can win any arguments.
>>76882490
There's a reason why communism always becomes state capitalism you fucking faggot. Also
>And Marx renounced the Jewish faith.
And so do all communists, that doesn't mean they're not Jews
>>76882310
>>76879619
Which is why I made the thread. I will admit that I'm ignorant, but I also feel the need to defend Capitalism from "Go Gommumism" bullshit. Thank you for bringing up globalization, though. It helps me understand just that much more about what exactly is fucking up the world.
>>76882490
>The hardest redpill to swallow was that fascism and capitalism benefit the Jews more than communism.
You can have capitalist business practices without (((globalist))) influences.
>>76879914
China has totalitarian state capitalism. It's communist in name only. Like how the DPRK is democratic.
That being said, all communists need to hang.
>>76882807
Ueah but don't be a kike shill unless you're paid for it.
Not sure about Americans, but in my home country it is not welcome for ppl to openly broadcast their opinion unless requested to do so by their jobs or social roles in the community.
So the real question is:
>are you defending more things than you should
>why is it so important to convert your friend to your ideas?
>why arguing anyway. Some people have late awakenings, as I did. You may not be the one destined to change his mind. Life will.
>>76879197
>There are sweatshops
Yeah in China, a communist country
>>76883578
>china
>communist
wew
>>76883185
In fact Trotsky had this view:
>wanted communism to be exported
>but wanted to allow for small property of the land, etc. So he was against most Conmunist statism.
So you see that he thought the system could be exported but only in a moderate form.
On the contrary, Stalin:
>wanted communism in only one country
>everyone on his own
>but started statalizing every inch of land and make everything belong to the State
This is a good nationalist approach (e.g. we don't meddle with other worldy affairs) but eventually he added dictatorship on top of it.
Lenin wrote a testament, in which he said:
>I like Stalin's charisma, but he is a psycho
>he gets carried away by statism.
>Doesn't understand dictatorship is a phase of liberation. Not the end of it
>Doesn't understand we have to export the ideas otherwise in 50-60 years we will be cucked
>instead Trosky is very good
>he thinks people should manage their own stuff
>he wants to give land back to farmers
>but he is too intellectual and too focussed on bureaucracy. And this is bad because bureaucrats grow content with their government roles and don't favour the people
>>76883432
Consider it the nagging liberal in me, but I believe in some bullshit moral obligation to try my hardest to lead people into a more "common sense" mindset rather than some romanticised garbage where everyone gets gibmedats and we all live in peace until the end.
And I'm very bored right now.
Maybe you should read a book or two so you can properly defend your beliefs on your own.
>>76882807
>I also feel the need to defend Capitalism
Don't defend capitalism. Defend the premise of market economies and go from there. Capitalism has a lot of unchecked and bad implications.
>>76879197
i can already tell your out of touch with reality by reading your pic. didnt read anything else you wrote. not saying to commie is right but if you think people can just freely pick and choose jobs and always get proper pay your a spoiled shit.
>>76879910
>>76879910
boomers lived during a period where the greatest growth of wealth ever recorded in the entirety of all history. they bought a house, a car, and payed off all college debts by the time they were in their mid twenties working low skill minimum wage jobs.
>>76879619
The fuck are you talking about?
You do know that these people survived before industrialization through small scale farming? Are you literally so misinformed that you think that the vast majority of them don't have a choice in just going back to the family farm?
They chose to stay and work in the city, even in what we consider deplorable conditions, because it provides more money for them and their family back home.
>>76884830
I second this.
Actually this works for both wealthy and poor countries alike.
In wealthy countries, young people like me are well off and told they can do anything they like in life. Choose the degree you like the best, etc.
But then you realize time goes by. Age and economy shrink your choices. So you live up to 30 y.o. with the illusion of freedom... but capitalism aside, nature has its own constraints: health, time and skills.
So even in wealthy countries people are not free. They just live an illusion. And the late they access the reality of it all, the harder it is to cope.
>>76884830
You're missing the point. I was saying that since the free market has such fierce competition, businesses have more incentive to take in workers from other businesses, as that increases production, increasing profit. I didn't and don't mean that everything will always go the best for you, but if you work your ass off you can improve your current state of living.
>>76879197
vai te fuder helena, eu nem to escutando a merda da tua voz (tapei os ouvidos)
>>76879197
>our current capitalism =/= capitalism how it should be
I hope everyone here is aware of this.
>Banking
>Natural Resources
>Media
>Telecommunications
All needs to be very strictly regulated, but it isn't.
>>76885435
That was the funniest damn thing I've ever put in google translate.
>>76884830
Out of touch?
Do you think that industrialization is easy? That is just going to be achieved with no sacrifices whatsoever? By a magical hand-wave?
No, industrialization is ugly. People will lose their lives in workplace accidents, they will commit suicide, they'll live and die in squalor. But that's the cost that a society bears if it hopes to achieve a better standard of living for their children.
In fact, the very coddled life that you live is built upon the sacrifices of thousands of people back in the industrial era.
And no, there's no better way to achieve an extremely high standard of living. Command economies failed to be sustainable, and import substitution industrialization also failed. There is no magical alternative.
>>76879197
Isn't the suicide rate of these factories with suicide nets, like Foxconn, lower than the overall suicide rate of the country?
If socialism is stupid, then why was Einstein a socialist?
>>76879914
Exactly what I came here to say
>muh suicide nets
Holy fuck really faggot
>>76886142
not worried about what it took to achieve industrialization due to the fact it was mostly outsourced so boomers could make even more money after being coddled. were paying millions in social security to jobless and homeless living around literal miles of empty factories. those same opportunities that built this country simply do not exist on a large enough scale to sustain the population. for a vast majority its either work shit jobs, be exploited, and make someone else rich or be homeless. the coddled life i live is relative, i would KILL to be able to work a factory job and afford to right out buy a 3 bedroom house within 4 years. as it is now i am certainly doomed to a life of poverty with no hope a retirement no matter how hard i pull my bootstraps. the economy is rapidly getting worse and worse and those with more money (power) will be more effective in fucking everyone else over.
>>76886612
If Einstein was so smart, how come he's dead?
At this point there's really no point in nit shitposting. Everything has been said unless lefty /pol/ shows up.
>>76885337
your missing the reality that there are millions of more unemployed people than there are available jobs. there is no downside to taking advantage and underpaying employees because it is so easy to hire a replacement in a day or two. business owners are in it to get rich and for the most part couldnt give a shit about treating employees fairly, while the unemployed have homelessness and going hungry if they dont want to be overworked for shit pay. the game is rigged grandpa, havent you been paying attention. do you not realize that even a shitty gas station job or fast food job will get hundreds of applications for a single job opening?
>>76879197
>references foxconn
>fails to realize China is a socialist shit hole relative to the U.S.
>>76879197
If you want to stump a Commie faggot forever, ask them whether they'll give up all their possessions when the revolution comes.
If they say yes, ask them whether they'd like to work in the fields, the mines or the factory.
From there you can irrevocably trap them into identifying with the rulers more than the workers, and then they're fucked because you're using their own ideas against them and forcing them to acknowledge that they're not a part of the working class (communists never are)
>>76886852
TOPPEST OF KEKS
Do you actually think that the 1950s boom was somewhat natural?
No, it was based on the fact that the United States was the only industrialized country who's industrial capacity was untouched by war.
We had no competition. Nobody is going to pay you 40k a year for doing a shitty manual job. Sorry, that's just not going to happen.
>for a vast majority its either work shit jobs, be exploited, and make someone else rich or be homeless.
This is simply not true and is not born out by evidence. You're strawmaning your shitty life to the vast majority of the population of the US.
>>76879197
tell them humanity is for sociopaths as we killed each other mercilessly for resources since the beginning of time.
explain to them what they are trying to do is highly abnormal and organised, and only happens in nature in a system like an ant or bee colony, where reproduction is controlled by one being and all the other participants are slaves to the hive mind.
>>76879197
>Care to offer any fuel to the red-pilling fire.
No, call your commie friend a fucking faggot because he's too fucking stupid to understand how communism is shit. He obviously has the attention span of a goldfish because he doesn't remember the Cold War and the Red Scare.
>>76889526
I'm prone to using slurs and saying shit like this. Trust me, all that'll do is add to his moral superiority complex.
>>76888908
so your first point was to agree with me and your second was to ignore the crashing economy, rising unemployment rates and the millions of dollars that are spent on social welfare.
good job and grats on that nice neighborhood you live in.
>>76889769
Then ask him to cite one successful instance of communism.
>>76889971
>crashing economy, rising unemployment rates and the millions of dollars that are spent on social welfare.
There is literally zero evidence of this.
The unemployment rates, even taken into account discouraged workers has been decreasing since the great recession. It's not ignoring your point, its that you're just flat out wrong. In fact the most apt description at WORST that you can make about the US economy is that its been stagnant NOT that its dropping like a brick.
You are straw-manning your shitty life to the vast majority of people in this country when, im sorry to say, most people are not retarded.
In fact, even when the 50s boom ended, median income still grew like bonkers until the early 2000s.
>>76879197
tell him that china doesnt fucking run on communism anymore because it fucking failed
He's used Cuba for Socialism.
Let that sink in.
He's used CUBA to explain why Socialism works claiming that "it's the most developed Latin American country".
>>76890379
Was meant for
>>76889994
Why is it that faggotarians always come retreating back to their community of choice, tail between their legs, asking to be fed arguments.
If your ideology is as bulletproof as you think it is, its merits should be self-apparent. I wonder about the extent to which even you actually believe in it vs. how much you think you do because it's something naturally expected of contrarian blowhard nerds like you.
>>76890379
Except Cuba is shit...
>>76891008
Exactly. He's pulling for idiotic straws.
>>76891089
Tell him about Venezuela and their currency that imploded.
>>76890768
You don't seem to realize I'm arguing with a sheltered little bitch who WANTS to suffer. He's so far detached from reality that he yearns for the day he leaves his parents and gets fucked in the ass by reality.
>>76890349
(citation needed)
ill agree if you can provide proof
