So I missed the debate for work last night, anyone summaries what was said? Also general what are you voting /pol/? I'm pretty split frankly.
What really fucks me up is nobody is willing to say anything about what will happen to the a) more than a million Brits living working/retired abroad, and b) all those EU nationals who have made lives, careers, own property on the Isles.
It's like everybody is avoiding the fucking issue. Are the Brexiters just willing to up and displace millions of regular, hard working folk with not so much as a second thought?
Sage for anti-Brexit thread.
Only the goyim will place a vote for their country to be controlled by the EU.
>>76712455
Are the Remainers just willing to up and displace millions of white British for non-white foreigners? I don't care about just brexit. Of course we should leave the antidemocratic corrupt EU (even Cameron says the EU is undemocratic), I want an end to immigration and we can't stop ANYONE unless we leave the EU - doesn't matter where you are from, if your little toe touches the beach of a Greek island you can come and live here and the government (left or right wing) can do nothing. Remainers are mentally ill and centuries ago would all be hanged for treason.
>>76712455
Nothings going to happen to them if we vote out.
>>76713028
Evidence or is this more pie-in-the-sky Brexiteers "reasoning"
GET YOUR PASSPORTS OUT FOR THE LADS
>>76713028
Explain pls.
>>76712455
a) the retired boomers should go home and see what their country has become
b) it has been clear that nothing will happen to those who came in before brexit.
>>76710494
Leave destroyed Remain on ITV
Izzard got BTFO on QT, showed up Remain too
2/2 bad viewings for Remain
Free movement of people = white genocide. It's like everybody is avoiding the fucking issue.
>>76712455
Yes.
>>76713532
>It's like everybody is avoiding the fucking issue.
The Leftists will never admit to this and they control almost all of the mainstream media.
The whites who know and care about this know better to discuss it because of the aforementioned Leftist shills who spin it to make you look crazy to the idiots who don't believe such a thing would ever be possible.
All you can get away with at the moment on these worthless Leftist channels is saying that 'British culture' will be destroyed.
>>76713351
Are you a Swede, or a Briton living in Sweden?
Also, you say that, I hear it said by others, but nobody gives details. Sounds just like soothing noises with nothing to back it up.
>>76712455
International law protects those people and property, its nothing to do with the EU.
>It's like everybody is avoiding the fucking issue
There is no issue. Only the remain camp stokes this fear because either they are too stupid to know international law, or are liars. I actually believe most oft hem are too stupid, they seem not to understand international trade treaties either.
Can any britfag please enlighten me on what is the most likely thing that will happen with the trades between GB/EU and what might be the methods EU will use to pressure Britain into staying in the EU?
>>76712455
a)I don't fucking care what happens to faggots who've already left our country
b)nothing happens to foreigners here. laws cant be apoplied retroactively so they'll get visas
>>76713858
>what might be the methods EU will use to pressure Britain into staying in the EU?
Simply ignoring the will of the people as they have done with the many other referenda comes to mind.
>>76712455
>this lame attempt at shilling against brexit
m8 my uncle lives in uk since 2012 and he has a job, he said even if uk quits eu he's allowed to stay 2 additional years or as long as he's employed and he'll get the citizenship after 5 years in the uk, so less than 2 years for him; he fully supports quitting eu in the interest of uk as well.
>>76713231
If EU residents are here legally then we can't simply deport them. I guess it all depends on what gets agreed in the EU.
Anyway all foreigners should fuck off desu lads.
>>76710494
Expats will enjoy significant legal protections that would apply after Brexit. Most lawyers argue that British expats living elsewhere in the EU at the time of Brexit would have individual "acquired rights" under international law in additional to any other rights they already have.
This is based on the Vienna Convention of 1969, which says that the termination of a treaty "does not affect any right, obligation or legal situation of the parties created through the execution of the treaty prior to its termination.” The House of Commons Library says that "withdrawing from a treaty releases the parties from any future obligations to each other, but does not affect any rights or obligations acquired under it before withdrawal."
In other words, Brits who have already exercised their right to live in EU states can expect to keep that right after Brexit, and the Remain camp are bullshitting as per normal.
I started off as completely neutral, but after studying the campaigns of both sides I'm for Brexit 100%. While the Brexit camp over-simplifies things sometimes, the Remain camp is putting out completely false statements on a daily basis AND relies on "independent " supporters who NEVER declare their vested interest .
If they were issuing stock picks Remain would be in jail now for lack of disclosure.
Remain got BTFO. It was three shrill harpies with no arguments other than muh tories against based boris and 2 Brexit women who actually knew what they were talking about. Question Tome was fucking gold as well.
>>76714161
Correct. It would require a chance in the law here to deport EU people who are legally already living here, AND even if we did change that law, those people may claim that they have "acquired rights" under international law that would make it even harder still to kick them out.
This is why such things as temporary work permits and visas were created, to give governments an option to push people out if required.
>>76713231
I think what would happen is that those in work and jobs would have an amnesty period to apply acquire the appropriate paperwork.
In British law, there is a concept of 'legitimate expectation'. It's not like overnight all the EU citizens are going to be purged from the UK. Those here under EU rights will be given an avenue to make it legit under UK visa rules.
The point is that NEW migrants will have to go through the visa application process. These can be turned away or accepted based on criteria. It's not that hard a concept to understand.
>>76714449
>It's not like overnight all the EU citizens are going to be purged from the UK
wtf i hate brexit now
>>76712455
Anyone who has come here legally gets to stay, same with british citizens in EU countries post brexit.
stop being an idiot who believes everyone will get uprooted and sent back.
>>76714305
Now THAT is what I was asking for. Thank you. Makes the issue clearer.
>>76710494
"take back control" x 100
>>76713858
They might create and artificial crash to scare voters into saying in the EU.
But if we manage to get out then there were some postulations that their would be a 5% tarrif on goods ( so says mr Farage). But as many right mineded people have pointed out it would affect Europe more than it would us becuase of the large trade deficit we have with the EU.
>>76712707
We're not in Schengen thankfully, but you're right, if Germany and Sweden start handing out citizenship to 100,000s of refugees then that is a massive problem for us.
>>76713231
Why would anything happen to them?
I would also like to point out that a lot of people I know make the argument
>But without the EU I can't travel visa free
I don't think tourism is going to change one iota. There are also countries whose citizens can came with no visa just for short tourist visits, like Japan, the US, Australia.
The point is to stop people from just coming over and living here without any restriction.
Anyone got a good quality VOD?
>>76715013
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDiPAVPz1k4
>>76714726
It was actually very clever. Most people watching won't be paying that much attention so all they would have seen is Eagle being a shrill harridan, Boris coming under personal attack and the other Leave advocates calmly repeating their mission statement.
>>76714970
The other thing is that Schengen means all you'd need to do, even if you did need a travel visa, is get one for your first visiting country because there are no internal borders.
>>76715071
What is Eddie Izzard?
>>76715146
>Boris coming under personal attack
Demonstrate how he's not a careerist solely interested in Number 10.
>>76715300
Demonstrate what that has to do with whether or not Britain should leave the EU.
>>76715255
A reptilian shape shifter
>>76714146
also i'm a brit in italy who wants UK to leave. Not worried about staying in Italy - my chances are pretty good even without an extra government deal as I'm self-employed.
Pisses me off that people would vote remain so they don't have to fill out a fucking visa form.
>>76714943
>19 and still living at home like a cuck
Either way I want to leave and so does gf, all of her family and my dad's side, but mum is a porko migrant who thinks that she'll be deported if we leave, literally arguments every night and I hate it /pol/
I NEED EVIDENCE TO PROVE HER WRONG
any video of last night's debate?
>>76715524
It's on youtube I think, the video I saw was called Boris vs Sturgeon ITV debate or something.
>>76715444
>Pisses me off that people would vote remain so they don't have to fill out a fucking visa form.
Ah but it's much more than that! Here, have a video designed by the European Commission themselves telling you, assuming you're an idiotic woman, what the EU does!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWpgO1EPO_Y
>>76715408
His campaigning is untrustworthy as it's based not on whether the UK should leave the EU but on his own calculations on how to gain high office.
>hello this is pollster X, what's your vote
>undecided
>>76710494
it was boring as fuck honestly.
>remain = vote remain because democracy is bad, you scum all vote tory. and muh 60 billion jobs.
>leave : take back control. the eu is falling apart. take back control. we believe in britain. take back control
Remain camp was completely BTFO last night. I've never been so confident of Brexit. People are seeing through the government's bullshit.
>>76715524
Yes
>>76715604
This video just appeals to the lowest common denominator "muh roaming tariffs", "muh cheap holidays". Roaming tariffs arent even a problem - I just use the hotel WiFi and internet texts and calls.
>>76715444
>Pisses me off that people would vote remain so they don't have to fill out a fucking visa form.
Pisses me off that cucks who've fled Britain vote Leave when it isn't an issue affecting them
>>76715071
Makes me proud to be an Englishman.
>>76714527
Yes, but remember from now on for at least the next 20 years there will be millions of people from Africa coming into Europe every year, and a significant number of them will be granted asylum since everyone knows African cannot into civilisation and is a shithole. Add to that a few million more who will simply not leave when told their asylum claim has failed, and those who just managed to sneak in completely under the radar and you have maximum cultural enrichment coming.
This is why it is so critical we Brexit now.
Another Brexit in 10 or 20 years time will be pointless, we will already be overrun at that stage and our welfare system and law and order will have collapsed, not to mention that the tax base will have collapsed long before that time as high earners quit the UK.
>>76715300
Those three harpies completely fell for his strategy. He wound them up all night making them constantly attack him personally, so he could bait and troll them even more, while his two companions calmly got their points across and connected with the public. All people saw from remain was vicious bitchfighting and hysterical women who could only attack Boris not the remain arguments. Cameron must have been furious.
>>76715811
You're saying you don't want my family's 14 Leave votes?
Well too bad, you're going to get them.
>>76715604
>they have the cheek to say that the EU facilitates trade with Africa
Jesus Christ above help me. EU protectionism has been hugely damaging to African producers.
>>76715614
This is a textbook ad hominem argument. If his campaigning is untrustworthy please demonstrate what it is he said in yesterday's debate that is wrong
>>76715899
Does not demonstrate how he isn't a careerist....in fact it enforces the idea.
>can't debate on factual grounds
>bait & troll
Lovely level of political discourse we have in this country.
>>76712455
>wilfully ignoring the multitude of times this has been addressed
I want Remain faggots to go the fuck away
Literally nothing will happen to any of them unless they've committed a crime in their new country of residence. Retroactive legislation is not something that happens in the West. It'd cause an international diplomatic clusterfuck.
People from the EU who are already settled here legally will face no reprimand whatsoever. If they commit a crime, they may be deported. The same applies to Brits in EU countries.
The suggestion that we'd kick out or ban from working poles and germans at random for committing no crime whatsoever is farcical.
>>76715614
the two are not mutually exclusive. even if he has purely gambling his political career he is doing so on the side of being pro-britain. he's politicking in britains best interest, if that gets him to no. 10 then well done to him.
>>76716029
>can't debate on factual ground
He did, and every time the response was an attack again him personally. Half they time they tried to shriek and shout him down when he spoke. The fact that he played it to his advantage blew them the fuck out. They were an absolute laughing stock last night.
>>76715255
Proto-degenerate
Think of him as the precursor to the modern faggot
Massive win for the Leave campaign, especially in the ITV debate. Boris and the red woman were spot on
So what' next? Will Boris or Nigel participate in anymore debate?
>>76716029
He literally let the remain side make themselves look stupid. Every time Eagle or Sturgeon talked about 'Boris's next job' or MUH TORIES he was doing his job.
>>76716060
Nah mate, I genuinely didn't see that shit. Frankly, I never considered Brexit likely until a couple days ago, so it sort of slipped under my radar. Not everyone browses /pol/ erryday m8. Now that its been explained to me I realize the error of my ways.
>>76715614
Wow you're a dumb shit
You realise that over a third of Brussels jobs pay more than the job of UK Prime Minister, have bigger pensions. zero accountability and do not require you to get elected by any voting public whatsoever right?
The 'lol just fishing for his next job' meme applies far more to mercenary Remainers that anyone on the Leave side
>>76715899
Just watched it myself and the remainers are even fighting with themselves about Scottish referendum. Boris truly outplayed them.
>>76716302
Alright my bad, I think we're all high strung from the amount of bullshit that's flying around on normiebook and its ilk
>>76716330
But he wants Number 10 not a Euro job.
>>76710494
m8 it was Europe who tried to kill you in WW1 and WW2 and the commonwealth who stuck it's many hands up and said "no Britain, you do no stand alone". Just remember that when you vote.
>>76716250
>talked about 'Boris's next job' or MUH TORIES he was doing his job.
Because everyone on the right wants Boris as PM being as he's so universally loved right?
Because highlighting the atrocities of multiple Tory governments doesn't play to the left right?
But at least he did his job, appealed to you, an already confirmed vote. Well done Boris, hearty pat on the back for him.
>>76716476
Which is why your argument is utterly invalid
If he was in it for his own ends he'd be batting for Remain because he'd have far more to gain from it and it'd be much easier to secure
>Boris is only campaigning for Leave because he wants a chance at a more stressful job with more accountability, more responsibility, less job security, lower pay, more public scrutiny and a worse pension that he might not get anyway if nobody votes for him
Fucking kek
>>76716150
>He did
>MUH £350 million FACT
>>76716476
Look at turncoat William Hague.
Half the Cabinet is looking for their cosy EU position funded by our tax money.
Whatever you think of Boris is irrelevant. We don't have to elect him. If we elect him we can get rid of him and undo everything he did in office. We can't get rid of the Commission.
Playing the man not the ball is not what undecided people wanted to see. The "Muh Tories" argument isn't going to appeal to the wider public, especially not when the Tory party line is to vote remain.
>>76716396
Hah, tell me about it.Lads who've know each other for years are tearing each other apart, and not even using sensible arguments to do it. Just appeals to emotion and ad hominem flying around like cruise missiles.
At any rate, I've been reading up while the thread was going, and Brexit seems like more and more of a good idea. Most of the Remain arguments seem to be not founded on fact, like the expatriate issue, or non-issues, like tourism. Economics is a significant factor, but for fucks sake m8, you'd be hard pressed to find one economist or expert not talking out his ass. I don't think anybody really knows what will or will not happen if Britain stays or leaves, just blowing lots of hot air.
>>76716637
>MUH TORIES
Just made the Remainers sound stupid. Using workers' rights as the example, protections for workers under UK law are well above and beyond the EU minimum, and indeed we introduced them before the EU as a whole did. If the Tories do want to limit workers' rights, they're doing a shit job of it so far.
>>76716672
It is a fact.
If I ask you how much you pay in taxes a year, you just tell me the number.
You don't deduct what you get back in public services and refunds.
The point is we don't control that money, the EU does. All EU funding we get is just our own tax money being spent by people we didn't elect.
>>76716666
>quads confirmed
>>76716672
Except it is a fact you dumb cunt, it's not Leave's fault that idiot Remainers don't know the difference between 'net' and 'gross'
It's no more disingenuous than the '£4300 per household :^)' meme. In fact it's considerably less so since it's based on actual numbers and not made up bullshit
>>76716889
It would still be better to use the net figure, it's still £10bn a year for the privilege of paying tariffs out the arse on non-EU goods.
>>76716902
Not to mention muh 3 million jobs
Absolute horseshit.
>>76716977
I do agree that this idiocy over Net and Gross is just a waste of time, I wish the leave campaign would just use the Net figure to end the confusion.
>>76716889
>>76716902
>All EU funding we get is just our own tax money being spent by people we didn't elect.
I didn't elect the current government. I'd prefer EU investment to Tory tax cuts for top earners & corporation tax.
>>76717118
>I didn't elect the current government
Oh, the disgruntled labour voter remainer. A typical sight.
>>76717118
>>I didn't elect the current government
>the party I voted for didn't get into power therefore we should let people that nobody voted for be in charge instead
Go away Nicola
>>76717118
> Democracy is bad m'kay
You truly are an idiot.
What do you think about the austerity they imposed on Greece? They fucked them into the ground with a jackhammer even after the people voted in a referendum that they'd rather go bankrupt than endure this "bailout." What the EU did to Greece is worse than anything any Tory government has ever done in history.
http://cadtm.org/Debt-and-austerity-measures
This is what you're voting for. This is who you'd trust over elected government accountable to the people.
>>76717252
>Pretending to care about Greece
New low
>This is what you're voting for
But I'm constantly told the EU is unelected.
>>76717118
The EU is forcing infinitely worse austerity on Greece right now. They gave Italy a government with NO elected officials in it at one point.
The Tories can be removed and the electoral system changed in this country. But we seem unable to change the direction of the EU whatsoever.
>>76717366
>>This is what you're voting for
>But I'm constantly told the EU is unelected.
He meant the remain vote you contrarian twat
>>76717366
I don't give two shits about Greece
I do give two shits that the EU now has a legal precedent for assuming control of a member state's economy against the will of its people, even when said people have objected in the most pure democratic form possible
The EU is unelected, it's what you're voting for if you vote Remain though. A referendum is not an election.
>>76717366
> But I'm constantly told the EU is unelected.
I know not even you're this retarded.
>Pretending to care about Greece
If you're really stupid enough to entertain the argument that democracy is bad because sometimes people elect the evil Tories, you need to face the reality that the EU has already proven itself 100 times worse than the Tories in the same policy areas you hate when they need to. They are not there to serve the people, and worse yet, they are not accountable to the people.
>>76717516
>The EU is unelected,
As are many posts....The House of Lords, QUANGOs, SPADS
Of course you chose to ignore that the EU parliament is elected & the council of ministers is comprised of ELECTED ministers but whatever's convenient for you.
>>76717382
>But we seem unable to change the direction of the EU whatsoever.
So we chuck our toys out of the pram & watch everything burn.
>>76717739
>The House of Lords
Parliament acts, they can be overruled.
>EU parliament is elected
Rubberstamp body. It can't even propose legislation, it has to ask the commission to do so. It would be as if no one in the commons could propose legislation and they had to ask the government to do so, except the government weren't elected MPs.
>>76717819
When you try hard to fix something and it doesn't work (see: Cameron's shitty "reforms") there comes a time you have to move on. The fact that he got so little on the very real chance of us leaving means the whole system will never accept any change.
>>76717739
The Lords do not have supreme legislative and executive power over the country, they can even be overruled by the commons by way of the Parliament Acts.
I think the UK needs democratic reform, but it's still a functioning democracy. The EU isn't by any standards.
>>76717819
Yes. We've been trying to change it for 30 years and haven't achieved anything. The options are leave or merge into an anti-democratic superstate. The choice is obvious. They openly oppose democratic reform.
> The good news is that our petition successfully convinced the European Parliament of almost all of our reform proposals, which they adopted with strong majority on 28 October 2015. But here comes the bad news: Even though the European Parliament urged the European Commission to take the necessary legal action to implement these reforms, the Commission refuses to act.
https://www.democracy-international.org/eu-commission-blocks-democratic-reform
>>76717958
>It can't even propose legislation, it has to ask the commission to do so
So they ask for what they want. Or does it ask for a & get given b then "rubberstamp" it? Because that seems plausable.
>>76718283
>So they ask for what they want.
Do you not see the problem with having an unelected executive branch which has sole control over initiating legislation? There's a huge democratic problem right there.
Imagine if Cameron and the cabinet were unelected and had control over all legislation proposed to the commons. That is what happens in the EU.
>>76710494
Its easy, England should leave the EU
Whenever there is THAT much scare tactics, they are desperate for the UK to stay.
We all have neighbours in houses. How many come over to knock on your door and hand you money? NONE
How many neighbours would be worried if you left the neighbourhood and beg you to stay if you paid their mortgage or rent every month? How many would scare you to stay if begging didnt work?
>>76718431
You still have an elected body to veto said legislation. Why does the origin of the legislation concern you so much rather than the scrutiny of it?
>>76718627
>Whenever there is THAT much scare tactics
Because the out campaign haven't indulged in scare tactics? Is that your assertion?
>>76718944
>Why does the origin of the legislation concern you so much
Oh I don't know, maybe because it gives the commission an effective veto on legislation it dislikes?
The Commons makes a point after the Queen's Speech with the outlawries bill debate to show it can debate freely on any topic it so wishes.
In the EU this can't happen, since the executive (the commission) can preemptively kill anything it dislikes before discussion can even occur.
>>76718944
Say homsexuality is illegal.
People want it decriminalised.
People start a petition to MP's to legalise it.
Petition has overwhelming public support.
MP's ask Cabinet to introduce legislation to legalise it.
Cabinet refuses.
Fags BTFO.
Can't vote out Cabinet. Oh well nvm then.
>>76713858
They could threaten us with extortionate tarrifs, but when push comes to shove and the consumer stops being EU products they will bend down to the GBB (great british bollocks).
My biggest worry is that if we leave our Government, which lets face it are mainly Remainians, will accept a sub-par deal to spite us and essentially say "Look I told you we'd be worse off".
>>76714305
This will also apply to current EU migrants surely?
>we are all Brussels
I burst out laughing so hard my housemate came to see what was so funny at 1am
I wish I wasn't playing Overwatch n got to watch it live with /pol/
>>76719307
Yes, why wouldn't it?
We're not kicking out poles en masse come June 24th, sorry
The point is to stop more coming here and to get rid of the ones that commit crimes, not to go all final solution on them
>>76710494
>>76712455
I live in germany you have no idea please vote out
>>76719173
>Can't vote out Cabinet. Oh well nvm then.
You're assuming they're
A) Permanently ensconced in their position
B) Not appointed by elected representatives & as such broadly in line with the views of said representatives & thus the public
>>76719267
They can't even do that , it's in EU law they have to trade fairly with us and cannot punish us for leaving.
They can't give us worse rates than everyone else.
>>76719585
Look if you still don't see the issues with this setup, there's no changing your mind and thus a waste of my time talking to you about it. You'd probably vote to join the Soviet Union considering they had similar democratic legitimacy to the EU.
I want my leaders to be directly accountable to the population. I want as much freedom and democracy as possible. The EU is antithesis of that.
Day 1 after leaving will be another holocaust. Any Brits living aboard will be rounded up and gunned down.
>>76719585
Let me know when the next EU general election is, so I can vote out the entire cohort that is currently governing us, and replace them with someone different.
While you are at it, can you point me in the direction of the prospectus for that government please as I'd like to know what their plans are, I dont seem to have the that document handy.
Whether or not the UK makes a success of Brexit will depend mostly on the performance of business in the new regulatory, competitive, and market environment, and partly on the quality and vision and leadership of UK politicians...which is quite variable. At least we can replace the politicians on a regular basis if they underwhelm.
>>76719267
Britain runs at a trade deficit to Europe as a whole, they account for 54% of our imports as opposed to 47.2% of exports.
The EU would simply be shooting themselves in the foot. If they turn to protectionism, Britain can simply do the same.
That's before we even start considering the high-tech and specialised nature of the British economy. Airbus are just going to stop using Rolls Royce engines... Right...
