I just picked up a 23cii for home use and there's no darkroom thread on the first few pages, so time for a new one.
I want to print both 35mm and 6x7 negs. Currently I have a Schneider Companon 50/4 in my enlarger. What enlarging lenses do you guys suggest? I was actually eyeing some fujinon lenses.
Secondly, I'm missing a grain focuser. Do I skimp on this or splurge on the high quality omega "critical focus" ones?
Feel free to post pics of your set up, prints you've made, and questions about general darkroom use.
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50mm is only good for 35mm, you'll need an 80mm for medium format. stick with nikon or schneider lenses unless you're broke or can afford leica, even second hand lenses are great.
grain focusers are mostly useful if you're making large prints, for smaller (<8x10), focusing without one will still yield sharp enough prints. it's a very basic mechanism so no need to get an expensive model.
I'll post results / more advice later, cba'd atm.
>>2750724
I've looked at lots of different forums and a lot of people argue about whether an 80mm lens can cover 6x7, some people say a 90mm or 105. I'm going to be printing mostly 5x7, and maybe print 8x10 or 11x14 when I want something nice. The Fujinon 80mm EX, which is a 6 element, is going for like 80, while the el nikkor version is about 100. Haven't looked for longer lenses yet.
>>2750737
I used an El Nikkor 75mm with 6x7 negatives. It'll be fine.
>>2750955
Alright. The 105 is going for around the same, I just wonder if that wouldn't be better for 5x7, since it would allow a smaller print at maybe a more manageable height.
>>2750711
lens I would go 105 or longer, I often use 135 for mf. (honestly I often leave whatever I had in it last, as long as it covers my neg) you have the rails and bellows to get the height for most of the print sizes you are likely to get up to for the first while.
I like a slightly longer lens, just because it gives me room to dodge / burn and work the print.
grain focuser - if your eyes are good enough you can get by without one, I need them now and they can be helpful regardless of print size. They can often be found free or cheap if you look hard enough.
I don't have photo's of my set up right now but I use an omega super chromega d dichroic ii like this one. it is nice because I can just dial in my contrast with the dichroic filters and it doesn't change the exposure time.
If you don't already have contrast filters, make that your first purchase!
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>>2751122
Thanks for your input! It must be awesome to work with a machine like that. What brand contrast filters do you reccomend?
this thread is so comfy
nothing but mature darkroom artists
>>2751145
i agree that comfy thread is comfy
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>>2751141
Ilford is pretty standard, and you'll most likely be using Ilford paper. they work with pretty much any multi grade paper. Once again, you can pay through the nose for new and find them free to cheap used.
Since all I have is a 50mm lens (and no bw 35mm negs right now) here's a small contact I made with some 6x7 negs and some ilford pearl paper. I gotta say I love the tones. I've printed before but not with quality equipment like this. I'm looking forward to making some real prints.
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>>2751167
good work, also your Beseler will produce sharper prints than my Chromega D. Condenser Enlargers do have benefits over Diffusers and vice versa. Darkroom gear is a whole new rabbit hole to go down.
one thing I forgot to mention. Most 105mm 135mm lenses are well above entry level / student grade lenses. Of corse some are better than others but almost all are good. coatings only really come into play when printing colour so if you find an old lens with a single coating go for it. Don't worry about brand, when you start looking around you will find that a lot of brands are made by about 5 manufacturers.
Nikkor is really good, Fujinon makes some of the best for colour (B&W too), Rodenstock and Schneider are excellent and I can't tell the difference, Leica has a good reputation but I have never used their darkroom equipment. From what I have seen Leica is probably more brand recognition here than anything.
LPL and Durst are re-branded Rodenstock or Schneider depending on the lens. Leica could also be Schneider, they have rebranded their lenses in the past.
I have only ever had 1 Bausch and Lomb lens that I liked and that was because it was and looked like a 115 year old lens. I would stay away from them unless that is what you are looking for.
I use a Minolta E-Rokkor at 75mm (f4.5-22) this worls fine up to 6x7 from the old Pentax monster.
Schneider 2.8 50mm on ebay here for around 25 GBP are excellent for 35mm negs of medium density. These budget lenses cannot handle thin negs - they just collapse. try and get hold of a Rodenstock. Mmmmmm!
>>2751406
Thanks for joining the thread. I didn't even know Minolta made enlarging lenses. I'll definitely look into that, since I'm part of the MINOLTA MASTER RACE.
I'm not so familiar with printing, but is it possible to print slide films?
>>2751529
MINOLTA LIVES, MINOLTA DIES, MINOLTA LIVES AGAIN
>>2751538
yes but not anymore
but sort of.
there used to be a direct positive paper called cibachrome then later Ilfachrome but it is discontinued and didn't keep well. so even if you find any the paper and chemistry has gone bad.
however you still can print from a slide by making an interneg and then printing like normal.
Thanks for yours. I'll post a pic of the lens tomorrow, could help if you want to try and track one down. Late here in UK. Worth remembering that camera companies, Nikon, Canon, Pentax etc were lens makers not camera makers. They simply made the cameras to fit their optics. Years ago we stuck Takumars on Zeniths because we couldn't afford Spotmatics but at least we could get the best images with the lens - not the camera, a mere incidental in many shots.
>>2751538
OP here, I'm actually out putting a roll of TMAX 100 through my SRT 101 right now, currently equipped with my Rokkor-X 50 1.4.
>>2751406
>>2751529
>>2751538
>tfw menelta ce 50/2.8 & 80/5.6
Dey are gut lenses.
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>>2751551
Saw some cibachrome prints fairly recently (but not done fairly recently) and they looked fucking great!
Kinda made me sad it's not available anymore.
>>2751627
The tones. Look at the damn tones!
They're beautiful.
>>2751584
Reporting back, developed my roll, it's hanging to dry now. Looks mostly good, as good as snaps can look anyway. Will make a contact sheet and possible print tomorrow.
>>2751627
satin rc?
This is my scan of the same shot.
On the print the seedpod required significant burning in to show texture.
>>2751723
No, that is glossy ilford rc.
>>2751694
It is tetanal variospeed w developer, no toning.
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>>2751724
maybe i just want it to be satin that bad. try satin rc. nicer to look at in person. has the same flatness and depth as that snap does. if you cant tell i loathe gloss :^P
>>2751727
I've used it. I reckon it's better for baby/wedding photos, if you ask me.
RC gloss is great for anything you want max contrast on. I like it for direct flash stuff.
FB gloss is where it's at for fine art/nature though.
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Recall cibachrome was a ciba-geigy chemical company roots out of BASF (German Agfa group). Wow back in London in the early 1980s everybody was using cibachrome off their Kodachrome and Ektachrome positives as direct prints (no interneg). Results were glossy unpredictable but when big and right they were impressive.. Certainly top snappers were into cibachrome big time. Cindy Sherman show in London 1985 time I recall was all ciba. So good.
>>2751738
fiber is the best period. its just a bitch to wash and pointless for work prints. might try fiber in tf4 and check to see if that works.
>>2751760
i enjoyed your post thoroughly, m8.
soon to get access to my university's darkroom.
any books you recommend for a beginner learning darkroom techniques? tips and tricks? what paper should I buy, to start out and practice with (and where can I find it for cheap in the US)
>>2751803
>http://www.timlaytonfineart.com/the-print-ansel-adams.pdf
I posted this in the book thread and noone cared ;_;
>>2751803
i started out with ilford multigrade RC in pearl, and it was bretty good
my nicer ones I did on glossy FB tho
>>2751856
>what's Pearl like?
not quite matte, not quite glossy
>>2751856
It's a nice balance between matte and glossy.
B&H is fine. Local stores where I live sell it for slightly more than the B&H price, but the 25+10 packs are cheaper locally for whatever reason.
>>2751715
Bumping comfy thread general back to where it belongs. Here's the contact sheet from the roll of film, minus one strip of 7 that wouldn't fit. For the anon that wondered, this is Ilford RC pearl.
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>>2752050
And here's one print from the roll. focusing without an aid wasn't too hard at this size. When I start making 5x7's out of 6x7 negs I expect that they'll look even better.
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My 75mm Rokkor. Would I part with it? Yeah. When I'm in the box...
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BTW there are a dozen or more ERokkor 75mm lenses on ebay UK at the moment - surprisingly cheap too. Grab a bargain.
>>2752134
you don't seem to know what you're talking about.
One is a digital scan, which has been desaturated to show no tone except the one of your monitor.
The other is a digital photo of a print, which can be any tone I like.
The two have no relation to one another, tonally at least.
>>2752147
>of a print, which can be any tone I like.
well, that's the question I'm trying to ask then.
how did you get such a warm tone with glossy ilford rc? mine are always cold?
or are you saying the digital camera distorted the print's color
>>2751803
Creative Black and White Photography: Advanced Camera and Darkroom Techniques by Bernhard Suess. there is a pdf link on le googs.
I know this post might rustle some of you but it seems like the best thread to ask. When I was first getting into photography I saw a darkroom setup at a yard sale, got excited and bought it for $50.
Basically how would you go about getting rid of your darkroom?
I'm keeping all of the things related to film dev., but the enlarger and the various bits for it should go since I've never used them. The enlarger isn't really a good one anyway, a Prinz 66.
>>2752112
Thanks for offering,but I think I'm going to go with either a fujinon 90 or Nikkor 105. Since I'll be printing at smaller than 8x10, a longer focal length should give me a little more working room.
Good choices anyway, Nikkor probably tips it for contrast on b/w Fuji for colour.
>>2752151
I think what he is saying is that the cameras white balance was warm or it was warmed up in post.
if you want to get that in the dark room you have a few options.
1) use warm tone paper
2) use warm tone developer
3) use a toner
a) or any variation of the 3, including all 3.
Both toners and developers will work better on fibre paper. Toners can also preserve your print life.
>>2752236
1) sell it
2) give it away to someone who wants to get into it
3) scrap the head and turn it into a copy stand
a copy stand could be really useful for SLR/camera scanning negs.
>>2752302
Pulled the trigger on the Nikkor 105. It wasn't the new "N" version but supposedly they are optically the same. Looking forward to using it.
>>2752392
>not Printing Nikkor 105/2.8
It's almost like you WANT your prints to suck man.
>>2752449
>best enlarging lens
>Printing Nikkor
>Best cinema camera:IMAX system, in case you have some spare millions
>>2752449
Gr8b8m8
>>2752566
Only the dankest darkroom memes
>>2751122
This. I'd also recommend a 105 for 6x7. I've used the same 105 for printing 6x9 and there's too much falloff
To the guy who doesnt have a grain focuser. I'd be willing to send you an extra one of mine. Just drop an email that I can reach you at.
what's the best way to go about leveling an enlarger? Like making sure the negative stage and lens board are aligned with the base board.
I took off the enlarger head from one of these and now use it as a copystand.
Buy two bubbles (spirit levels) with graded bubble windows so you can see the x y axis are both level. If not don't move the baseboard get sum blu tack on each corner and press the baseboard in each plane until it is level on x y axis. The don#' lean on it! Just put your easel frame down gently...Cheers.
How do you guys combat dust, both at the negative stages and in your solutions, on your prints?
I'm in the process of starting up a public dark room, so while I wait I decided to try out some contact printing at home.
Got some old RC paper, 10,5 x 14.8cm, almost for free, and blacked out my kitchen.
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Printed that one at a few different exposures, but like the previous best, might print it again like this, only this time with a clean glass plate.
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Previous shot was RPX400 4x5, this one is FP-100C, hence the low contrast.
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Same with this one.
It was one of the first negs I bleached, and I didn't do too good of a job on it.
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Last one dry enough to scan, I'll bump the thread tomorrow with some more.
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>>2753185
In no particular order.
Wear some sort of hat if you have longish hair. Seriously. Imagine you are working in a cake bakery. Wash your hands too!
Buy a proper photographic paper dispenser. You would be surprised how much dust is generated by opening and closing packets and boxes in the darkroom.
Use fresh dev and mix every time. Change the stop bath every hour.
Don't wear wool or fleece tops in the darkroom.
Don't smoke in the darkroom. Don't eat in the darkroom.
Clean negs slowly and carefully don't over rub/generate static.
Wipe down the easel/platten on a regular basis.
Take the enlarger OUT of the darkroom, dismantle clean any condensers dust catching areas and return it to darkroom. Do this before any major session.
Wash glass and glassless neg carriers/holders in deionised water before every session.
Clean the darkroom with a good vac after every session. Vent it. Wipe all surface and wash all dishes.
Never have a fan heater as a source of heat in a darkroom.
I'll leave it there. Hope these tips help.
>>2753401
I just use chlorine gel to wash off the anti-halation layer on the backside of the neg, taking care not to get it on the emulsion side.
Results are very good for scanning imo, and probably for colour printing or B/W with a contrast filter.
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>>2753544
Dropped my trip, on my phone
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>>2753528
>Buy a proper photographic paper dispenser. You would be surprised how much dust is generated by opening and closing packets and boxes in the darkroom.
>Use fresh dev and mix every time. Change the stop bath every hour.
>Take the enlarger OUT of the darkroom, dismantle clean any condensers dust catching areas and return it to darkroom. Do this before any major session.
>Wash glass and glassless neg carriers/holders in deionised water before every session.
>Clean the darkroom with a good vac after every session. Vent it. Wipe all surface and wash all dishes.
can't even tell if you're trolling but this is ridiculous. I don't do any of these things and have no issue with dust. how's your ocd treating you?
>>2753555
Agreed, this is full retard mode.
Also " mrFstop" seems a lot like a rapey eurofag; his posts make me uncomfortable.
>>2753585
>Also " mrFstop" seems a lot like a rapey eurofag
lol how can you get triggered by technical posts? are you autistic? can you elaborate?
>>2753585
pretty sure he's just an middle aged darkroom gearfag, just like most gearfags but instead of taking pictures of his family and cats with a dslr, he does it with a 4x5 view camera and makes toned fiber prints of them.
>>2753590
Recall most of these advices on a work sheet in a commercial darkroom bout 10yr ago. so ocd yeah but fucking up a 24x16 print with a sweater hair was dumb ass.
>>2753668
never said not wearing sweaters was bad advice, but basic hygiene and an antistatic cloth is more than enough in most cases. and if it isn't, retouching kits still exist
how clean is your darkroom?
>>2753554
>>2753544
>>2753293
>>2753292
>>2753290
oh polaroid (fujiroid) pulls, I miss them so much.
I wish someone would bring back 4x5
I don't understand why Polaroid is holding on to their patent and doing fuck all with it. The could let Impossible use it but instead they have actually prevented Impossible from using a process that is too close to their own. So they pump out hipster tier shit and future landfill material.
>>2754166
Bump
>>2754166
Impossible does seem to be allowed to make 8x10 peel apart film though.
New55 makes an 'instant' 4x5 film. You still need to use fixer, so I don't think it's as instant as they would lead you to believe, but you do get a positive and a negative.
>>2754567
$17+ per shot on a black and white "instant" neg and contact print vs $1.50 to do it traditional.
No thanks.
>>2754558
$20 for a single 8x10 colour polaroid pull. that's actually worth it and about what polaroid used to cost. If I had the camera and back, I would probably try it. I have 1 lens that couvers 8x10
>>2754558
Holy fucking shit that's cool
>>2754625
>$17+ per shot on a black and white "instant" neg and contact print vs $1.50 to do it traditional.
>No thanks.
fp-3000b is discontinued, so pretty soon it'll be the only option for 4x5 b&w pull, which kinda sucks, especially since it's only iso 50
good threads should stay alive
Haven't scanned anymore prints, but I have a question to bump the thread with.
I've got two packs of the washi 4x5 «film», but I'm wondering what to shoot them on.
The only paper developer I have is Agfa/Rodinal Print NE (the new Neutol NE), which I mix at 1+11.
I'm thinking I'll have to shoot it at ISO 3/6?
I could of course make a few test shots, but I don't have too many of these, so I'd like to get it right as fast as I can.
>>2755861
Use a normal paper developer.
Dilute it at the normal rate.
Shoot it at the rated speed (25).
Why is a person as dumb as you trying to use this complicated shit?
>>2755927
I am using a normal paper developer, Print NE.
Why are you so hostile? I'm trying to have fun, why don't you join me?
>>2756156
>Why are you so hostile?
Because you posted a photo of the fucking instructions that come with it, then said that you planned to ignore those instructions and use diluted developer, and overexpose it by 2 to 3 stops, then asked us what we thought of that.
I think it's fucking stupid, is your short answer.
Try using a red filter with it too, fuckface, you'll get really good contrast...
>>2756174
Salt gives you a high blood pressure, you should try cutting down on it.
I'll shoot it at ISO 6 and report back.
>>2756321
i like this response
>>2756353
>I love to suck tripcock all day long! Please send more!
Translated by Bing!
>>2756359
no u
I shot two exposures just now, at ISO 6, and the exposure seems pretty good.
Tho it seems there has been some light leakage during packing. I'm quite sure it's not my fault, I opened the pack for the first time under redlight, and there is only leakage on the part towards the opening of the pack.
The previous one looks a bit underexposed, but I'll wait until I they're dry and I can make some contact prints to decide for sure.
This one is shot at the same ISO, but looks more correctly exposed.
>>2756474
>light leakage
Sucked in dude.
Like I said, you should use stronger developer and dev longer.
Are you metering off your subject, or the white wall?
These are going to be thin as fuck when they're dry.
Also you are ugly as sin.
Cut your hair and close your mouth if you're not talking, you fucking troglodyte.
>>2756619
get rekt m8, I used what I had
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beseler-Photo-Enlarger-model-23C-ll-W-Nikon-Nikkor-50mm-lens-platform-storage-/371540421546?hash=item568188ebaa:g:cnkAAOSw-zxWpfR0
Is this a good enlarger to get? Does it look like it's in good condition? I don't know much about how an enlarger should look or what it should come with. I would like to print 35mm from 4x6 to 20x24.
not darkroom but didn't want to start a new thread.
anyone have any reputable companies for printing images?
>>2758464
bamp
>>2756690
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZlgG1duK_E
>>2762861
bump
So I recently had the opportunity to clear out a darkroom and take whatever I wanted. I got a pair of Durst enlargers out of it, an M370 and an M670, but both had color heads on them, and there was no sign of VC heads.
Is there a decent way to print B&W from these, or do I need to track a VC head down?
>>2767108
I used to use a later model of this one, and it's great. Of course you can use VC b/w paper with this: by using the magenta channel as a graded filter. It's not a linear function, so you got to check the table in order to know what magenta value corresponds to the contrast grade you. Usually ilford papers come with such tables (you can also check it online), and the table varies according to the paper used.
>>2767129
you can also use the yellow channel for lower contrast grades (0-00) and you can use combinations of yellow and magenta to keep same times when changing contrast
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2006130201152306.pdf
>>2767129
Cool, thanks. I wasn't sure because I'd heard that color heads tend to use a different mechanism that doesn't work as well with B&W (diffusion vs condenser or something?)
Mine are pretty late models too, probably from '97 or so. This is all kind of new to me, I worked in darkrooms a lot way back in school, but everything was all set up and I didn't really learn anything about the enlargers themselves or how they work internally.
>>2767108
>>2767155
A colour head is a <V>ariable<C>ontrast head.
As cruz mentioned, the magenta and yellow filters can be used to vary the contrast.
Colour heads are also diffusion style heads.
The actual difference between Condenser and Diffusion heads is negligible, at least for a beginner.
They are both equally capable of excellent results, however, and diffusion models are MUCH easier to use and keep free of dust.
Read this.
>http://www.davidutrilla.com/cajon/durst_M_370.pdf
>>2767181
Awesome, thanks.
I just loaded my whole haul from clearing the darkroom out and figured I'd take a pic, by the way. I just need to figure out where the hell to actually set it up, there isn't a single room in my house without windows. I'm thinking maybe blocking the windows in my laundry room off would be the best bet, since it has small ones and access to running water.
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Camera-Specific Properties: Equipment Make NIKON CORPORATION Camera Model NIKON D610 Camera Software Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5.6 (Windows) Maximum Lens Aperture f/1.4 Sensing Method One-Chip Color Area Focal Length (35mm Equiv) 35 mm Image-Specific Properties: Horizontal Resolution 240 dpi Vertical Resolution 240 dpi Image Created 2016:02:12 16:56:57 Exposure Time 10 sec F-Number f/8.0 Exposure Program Manual ISO Speed Rating 800 Lens Aperture f/8.0 Exposure Bias 0 EV Metering Mode Pattern Light Source Unknown Flash No Flash, Compulsory Focal Length 35.00 mm Exposure Mode Manual White Balance Auto Scene Capture Type Standard Gain Control Low Gain Up Contrast Normal Saturation Normal Sharpness Normal Subject Distance Range Unknown
