Should I feel guilty about wanting to shoot a young model friend of mine wearing sexy outfits such as leather corsets and metal-studded chokers? What about sexy adult Halloween costumes? Or Victoria Secret lingerie? At what age should it be not be considered unethical or just too creepy for each of those items? Seriously.
Inb4: why would I want to wear such things while taking photos. Yeah, and one morning Groucho Marx shot an elephant in his pajamas (how he got in his pajamas is a mystery).
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Is this supposed to be funny .. or what?
>>2715496
Only the reference to Groucho. Seriously wondering if /p/ would shoot or not, given the opportunity. I already have some wonderfully inappropriate clothing. Just don't know if I would be able to edit the photos afterwards without feeling terribly ... guilty.
>>2715482
No need for guilt because there's 0 chance for anything remotely sexual happening. Only a hyper autistic permavirgin would post as awkwardly and as humorlessly as this.
>>2715566
In her case, I certainly would not put the odds at or even near zero.
Post may seem awkward because I would like to invite discussion, but without getting banned.
Here is my tribute to photographer Bert Stern, though not with heart-shaped sunglasses because I thought that these suit the shape of her lips.
>>2715482
how young?
>>2715482
Let's see. At what age it's not creepy anymore:
Society's point of view: Never. It's always creepy to do anything remotely sexual.
Parents' point of view: Never. Parents suck.
Family and relatives(of hers): 19-ish. Basically once she is in college.
Family and relatives(yours): 18. The law basically.
Friends' point of view: 16ish. Depends on your country but most guys will understand this.
Her point of view: 13. Any less and it wouldn't make much sense though in todays world I might be wrong.
Professionals: 12. Given that it's done in good taste of course.
That one close friend of yours: 12. It doesn't need to be in good taste but you might want to omit some details when discussing it.
Your own point of view: 0. What the fuck do you care, do what you want. Just... be careful and think about it alot.
>>2715482
Its fine aslong as you share the results
>>2715482
>Should I feel guilty
no
> At what age should it be not be considered unethical
18 years
'cause that's the legal age for porn
>>2715762
the law has very little relation to ethics
>>2715482
>Should I feel guilty
Yeah, totally. Refer her to me, I'll take care of it.
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Sorry I was busy during the day today.
>>2715618
She just made 13, in some respects going on 30.
>>2715762
Who said porn? I expect the photos to be in good taste, to the extent that a Wonder Woman body suit allows (or a corset and thigh highs).
>>2715696
Thanks for the thoughtful response.
I have known her mom since she herself was a young model, and she has seemed okay with her daughter being a model and doing local tv commercials. Quite proud of the girl, in fact. The mom once took my camera and snapped a pic of the girl's derriere, saying, "Doesn't my daughter have a great ass?" Of course there is no politically correct answer to that question. I don't know her dad (parents are divorced) so that is a concern.
The Halloween costumes were labeled "14+" so I guess that means I should wait until her next birthday, eh?
I am also curious to know whether /p/ has suggestions for outfits. What would you want to photograph?
This is not my photo - taken by her mom with a cell phone.
If this is the way you already feel about this and are asking these kind of questions you are not ready.
Have you shot with her before. Build a working relationship and eventually she will wear anything you ask her to if she is the right type of girl
You're asking 4chan if you should photograph a 13-year-old girl in "sexy outfits"
While using the she's not really a child, she acts like an adult, rhetoric of a paedophile
Reconsider and get the fuck out before you do something you can't undo
>>2715923
Fuck OP that sounds creepy as shit. By "young model" I thought you were going to say 18-25.
OK. Here you have a reply from a liberal European perspective:
Assume that whatever photos you will take, her classmates will see for the next 5 years. Make sure she understands and assumes that. They might not, but they might and if the photographs are such that she could get harmed by them, simply do not take them.
Do not fool yourself that she is "adult". She lives in a world that is much more difficult to escape from and much more vile.
>>2715923
>13
That's pedo tier OP. Don't go near that with a barge pole
>>2715482
Hm. Post more photos? If she is prepubescent don't don't do the photo shoot. Either way it's borderline pedo.
I was ready to say that you shouldn't feel any form of guilt for shooting a model in fetish type clothes. That would have been really cool, especially with the right set, model, and clothes.
Then you questioned age, which is always suspicious.
Then you suggested that there is the likelihood for some type of sexual contact to happen.
Then you mentioned she is 13.
Just stop. Put the camera and ball gag down. Go rub one out to a picture of your grandmother. Because that would be less creepy than what you are asking us about.
>>2715482
That could be done if you have some weight in photography world and have appropriate style that could prevent you of sliding into tasteless vulgarity. Otherwise try to do shoot with just accent on youth but drop idea of explicit sexuality.
>>2716175
10/10 post
>>2716175
10/10
If you can't understand and appreciate age-appropriate, you cannot photograph younger girls. End of story.
Pic related. This is what 13 looks like. I took this photo. Her mom was there. We all had a nice time. It was perfectly innocent, then we went on a roller coaster.
>>2716280
I'm rusty.
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go ahead man, and fuck the mom
>>2715950
sounds like you need to mature a bit friend. Please keep your creep fetish fantasies to yourself next time.
>>2715923
13 won't be okay with most societies.
Can't do much about it. Regardless if you don't want to fuck her but just do art or whatever, you generally don't want to get into the modern witch hunt that is paedophilia (not in the medical sense, which is before puberty, but the average pleb's idea of it).
Probably 7/10 people would already blame you for thought rape crimes...
>>2715950
Let's get one thing straight. I have been fortunate enough to have had a number of serial monogamous relationships (and marriages) with very beautiful full-grown women. I have also always had a very chivalrous, gentlemanly view towards females.
The first thing that I think of when I see a female's appearance is not perverted sexual desires, but rather perhaps "oh, she is beautiful" as a purely aesthetic value. I have been with and around enough beautiful women that I do not worship them.
I have also known and photographed quite a few "beautiful" children and teens. I guess I have taken at least eight thousand innocent, age-appropriate photos like yours there BJ >>2716281
I have never been into fetish things so I don't know where these thoughts came from (though my second very beautiful wife enjoyed being handcuffed, etc. that's a story for another board, eh?).
So I have known this young model for years and she always had great proportions of torso and long graceful arms and legs, but those of a youngster. Here I am going along with normal as can be life, when one recent day I am slammed with the fact (without going into detail of the circumstances) that she suddenly has an incredibly gorgeous body. It happens. In her case it happened NOW, BAM!
I don't know where it came from or why, but I have a burning desire to photograph her as mentioned above, and a panicky fear that her appearance will change again before I can capture her present perfection.
So my question to /p/ was: At what age should it be acceptable to shoot a young model wearing the various types of clothing? My own daughter was professionally modeling swimwear beginning at age 8, and I have photographed this model in swimwear. But is for some reason something like a corset different when it actually covers considerably more skin? Is it because we subconsciously associate those clothing items with sex?
Should I just wait and pray that she doesn't get fat?
Oh, and as a bit of trivia, this is her mother's famous cousin as a 12 year old model. I'm sure /p/ knows who she is. There is considerable familial resemblance amongst them all.
>>2716503
>second wife
>8 year old daughter
wow, i thought you were some autistic 18 year old old or something. That makes it a lot more creepy that youre a middle aged man
also just think that she is only 5 years older than your daughter how does that not creep you the fuck out?
there are hundreds of 18+ models out there that you could take your fetish photos with and not be a fucking boarderline pedophile, christ
>>2716281
You fucking retarded creep
>>2716503
dude if you're asking if you should feel guilty
then you should
you're trying to find reasons to justify why you AREN'T creepy as shit and that alone should be a red flag
>>2716503
No, man, you honestly come across as a creep in many of your posts:
>In her case [of a 13 year old girl], I certainly would not put the odds [of something sexual happening] at or even near zero.
>I have also always had a very chivalrous, gentlemanly view towards females.
Socially unaware neckbeards tend to describe themselves as chivalrous and call women 'females' as if they were animal specimens.
>I have been with and around enough beautiful women that I do not worship them.
Why else would you want to take pictures of a 13 year old girl in fetish clothes and lingerie, then backtrack to say it would be a Wonder Woman body suit?
>So I have known this young model for years and she always had great proportions of torso and long graceful arms and legs, but those of a youngster. Here I am going along with normal as can be life, when one recent day I am slammed with the fact (without going into detail of the circumstances) that she suddenly has an incredibly gorgeous body. It happens. In her case it happened NOW, BAM!
Doesn't change the fact that she is 13 and has the mentality, maturity, and life experience of a 13 year old.
>I don't know where it came from or why, but I have a burning desire to photograph her as mentioned above
yet >I do not worship them
>So my question to /p/ was: At what age should it be acceptable to shoot a young model wearing the various types of clothing?
No, your question was:
>Should I feel guilty about wanting to shoot a [13 year old] model friend of mine wearing sexy outfits
>But is for some reason something like a corset different when it actually covers considerably more skin? Is it because we subconsciously associate those clothing items with sex?
Yes, you dumb motherfucker, the reason it's OK to photograph a 13 year old wearing a swimsuit but not OK when she's wearing a corset is because a corset is almost exclusively used in a sexual scenario.
>>2716524
This anon nailed it. You're pervving on her and are trying to make us believe you are not.
>>2716503
I am cheering you on OP, please take the photos for the sake of all things beautiful and post them on /b/.
Some questions though: Are you going to be alone with her? Does anybody know about the shooting? Is anybody else going to participate in development process (if shooting film for example)? Do you mean to share the photos and where/with whom?
>>2716503
Society only accepts beauty pageants, fashion modeling, swimwear, dressing up for ballet or costumes for events and a thousand other things.
Unless it's for one of the above, just about everything is too much. Enjoy our very clever social norms.
> I don't know where it came from or why, but I have a burning desire to photograph her as mentioned above, and a panicky fear that her appearance will change again before I can capture her present perfection.
Then shoot her in an acceptable costume and with parental consent.
You can always hope the fetish stuff can still happen when she's old enough and interested and hopefully not fat or something yet.
if you have true artistic vision and you think you can actually pull it off then do it. artists push boundaries and get people to talk about their work and look at it more closely than us normal schmucks. if you're doing it for a cheap thrill then i guess take heed of the faggotry that is pointed out in this thread. as you've pointed out there are famous examples of young girls portrayed in art, pic related as another. hell even art that people don't even think twice about now is motivated by the hint of young female sexuality. i'm thinking of degas' dancers.
>>2716516
Daughter is 18 now. Operative verb was "was".
I don't have any desire to shoot fetish photos of just any model. Though I took a few topless pics of girls I dated, it has only occurred to me with this particular girl - I think due to a combination of the nature of her looks along with her personality. I have been around models and know that some have "IT" - a certain talent for posing - and this girl already has "IT" in spades despite her age. And I mean modeling talent, not just looks. Some pretty girls are very stiff and self-conscious and it shows in their photos.
>>2716524
I did not mean to insinuate that I would do anything sexual with her, Rather that SHE is sometimes capable of spontaneously doing something...uh, eye-catching.
Good that you can psychoanalyze others based upon the use of two words of their vocabulary.
I mentioned "costumes" in my OP so why is it "backtracking" to mention Wonder Woman?
I do not worship this girl or want to have sex with her - I just want to get the photo, like Da Vinci wanted to paint Mona Lisa. Somewhat like Richard Dreyfus' obsessive vision in "Close Encounters". In fact, I rather pity the guy who ends up with her, because she can be a real firecracker at times.
If you read my entire original post you will see this question: "At what age should it be not be considered unethical or just too creepy for each of those items?"
>>2716572
I have shot alone with her before. She has stayed as an overnight guest in my home a number of times. I don't think I could share her photos other than the few I have dropped here, and certainly not on that cesspool /b/, for fear these days that they will end up on some "jail bait" site.
Anyhow, I thought /p/ could use a thread that might have some lively discussion and not another "Is this a good lens?" thread.
>>2716630
Do you remember the shitstorm about Annie Liebovitz's photos of 16 year old Miley Cyrus? I showed the pic to my daughter, who was then 11, and she said, "Really? That's it? It's just her back. What's the big deal?"
>>2716652
At 16, Miley Cyrus had already been in her own TV shows, had a music career, modeling opportunities galore. She had several agents, lawyers, PR guru's, and other people on payroll. She had more life experience than 99% of other 16 year olds because she was born into fame, achieved her own fame, and consorted with others in fame, who all are forced into maturity under the gaze of millions of people.
This girl being discussed by OP is lucky if her mother has her enrolled in a modeling guild that has access to sub-par, overworked staff lawyers and agents, who may or may not recognize the need for caution when dealing with situations like this.
It's hardly the same.
>>2716652
it turned her into a slut.
>>2715482
Murder is illegal, dumbass.
>>2716639
So your whole reason for wanting to photograph her is because you are sexually attracted to a 13 year old? And you are asking if this is creepy?
Don't do that sexual stuff yet. She's too young and it's not good for either of you. She will be sexualized and objectified too young like too many poor girls. If it's cool art you want, go with neo-punk/ rock/ metal clothing styles and promote bands. Focus more on the art/ color/ designs and less with "artistic outfits". Trust me, I'm a scientist.
And one more thing. That girl is beautiful and the unethical thing is that you are eager to photograph her in "sexy" themes. Yes, many girls have become messed up from getting messed with too much at too young an age. It sounds like you are in a position of trust with her and her family and if you do the wrong thing you should really hate yourself. Don't mess this girl up. She is pretty enough to be a beautiful and respectable model. Don't try to push boundaries with sexy outfits and stuff like that. Have her model next Spring's collection of outfits for girls and treat her like a beautiful young lady, not like some hip up-coming sexy young model.
>>2717526
I wish that we could define our terms so as to discriminate between "attractiveness" (objective aesthetic beauty), as opposed to "sexual desire" (active want of the various physical pleasures that might be engaged in with someone).
I certainly think this girl is attractive in the first sense. On the other hand, I have reached the age of maturity where I no longer desire to have a sexual relationship with every single female I think is attractive. However, I still can appreciate their beauty or attractiveness. Does that make sense to anyone other than myself? Are you all uncontrollably horny teenagers and twentysomethings?
>>2718817
Have you seen the current styles for girls? Tiny jeans shorts, bare midriff crop tops. She showed up at my house one day wearing spandex biking shorts.
>>2718895
The OP pic is just an outtake from some test snapshots I took one day some months ago to see how that lipstick color looked, after her ballet rehearsal. Solely illustrative, as I don't really want to post her better photos and have them show up on other sites. The costume jewelry choker that she picked up at my house is what I think may have inspired my sudden vision of a leather studded choker. Her hair was a mess, since she had been dancing for hours. I rather liked the silkscreen edit of the other pic, taken in the front seat of my Porsche, age 11. What about >>2716503? That is her on that cover under the clown outfit. Thread wasn't supposed to be about quality of my work.
Did anyone ID her cousin? Here is another of her as a young model.
>>2719451
Did she act in Starship Troopers?
Also, m8, I wouldn't recommend it. For her sake rather than yours. Kids, especially girls, are already exposed to all the degenerate shit in the media, I think first-hand experience would fuck them up even more. You may say it's just harmless modeling, and you won't be wrong, but the fact is you're looking for "sexy" stuff and I don't think a girl at 13 should be "sexy". If other girls her age are already mega-sluts, then that's a shame, but that doesn't mean she can go through it too.
I used to be in a psychiatric hospital, and you'd be amazed all the little girls that come in, completely fucked up, and sometimes from the smallest shit.
IMO, just take pictures of her in nice clothing.
>>2719451
oh it's that talentlesss waste of space from the resident evil movies.
>>2719451
Is that clown photo supposed to show off your skill? Because if your skill only extends as far as applying shitty photoshop filters to photos then your pictures will definitely come off as creepy.
>>2719462
No. I think that was Denise Richards.
Yeah, I know a teenager who ran away from home for 6 months because her dad told her to pick up her laundry before she could watch TV.
>>2719464
I rather think her best work must have been Return to the Blue Lagoon (actually I don't think I have ever seen any of her films, but image search for it looks promising).
I neglected to mention that not only does my young friend bear a resemblance to her mom and Milla, but she also has a twin sister - which has me contemplating some interesting photo ops.
>>2719451
She wears that stuff because she isn't sexualized yet. Not because she's so comfortable being sexualized. Saying you're just interested in her beauty is easily accepted if you're putting her in a dress, or a cool classy outfit. When you're putting her in lingerie, it's you beating me over the head with your red flags.
>>2719622
>my young friend
Saying stuff like that makes you sound very creepy.
>>2715950 >>2716135 >>2716175
>>2716254 >>2716280 >>2716516
>>2716524 >>2716537 >>2716868
>>2718819 >>2719462 >>2719624
>>2719699
>slut
>pervert
>creep
Do you people ever use words that aren't subjective ?
OP you are clearly WAY more qualified to make that decision than anybody else here. I know you wanted a discussion but with all the political turmoil and the normie invasion 4chan has become one of the worst places to discuss this, even on slower boards like /p/.
The only useful advice was that you should make sure to explain how such photos can affect her later. Which is something that might no be clear to someone without much experience of how ignorantly mean people can be (see all the jerkoffs here calling girls "sluts" for making sex a central theme in their lives).
tl;dr yeah it's "creepy" but you shouldn't care because society is wrong about most things involving sex.
>>2719757
>pedophile-enabling nonsense
Dude is a creep/perv not because of the conceit of wanting to photograph young girls, but because of wanting to sexualize them. No artistic vision has been espoused, no justification of choosing this one girl beyond she's beautiful and he wants her in "sexy" clothing. The adult, responsible thing to do is shut that right the fuck down.
I don't give a shit what ages and amounts of nudity thereof you use in art, but for it to be art there has to be a reason beyond pretty girl in the buff, otherwise it's just porn. Not a damn thing has been said in this thread to come close to indicating anything other than that.
Let's hear a legitimate reason it has to be this girl and not some flat, young looking 22 year old. What can she do that a woman of legal age can't? It's not even a matter of accessibility because I promise it is far easier to get random model consent than parental consent for such.
I hope you're making a misguided attempt at defending artistic rights, but some shit is indefensible, especially when that isn't art at all.
>>2719757
How can you claim he isn't creepy?
He describes his desire to photograph her as obsessive.
There is nothing normal about obsessing over photographing a 13 year old girl in fetish gear.
>>2719766
>some shit is indefensible
You were taught to believe that sexuality is shameful and should be hidden. I was taught the same thing but just rejected it.
How old were you when you first learned of sex ? When you first saw it ? When you first had an orgasm ? When you first had sex ?
Did something bad happen at any of those times ? Were you hurt by it ? No, because there is nothing wrong with sexual pleasure.
My whole arguement is that your base assumption is wrong. Whether there is any sexual intent behind OP's photography or not is not relevant to wheter it's right or wrong because there is nothing wrong with sexuality. I already said that the only negative aspect of it is because of people like you who MAKE it negative.
>>2719794
>How can you claim he isn't creepy?
Did you miss the last sentence of my post ?
>tl;dr yeah it's "creepy"
And most people that create great things are obsessive about it. In this case you just don't like the thing itself.
>>2715923
>pedo/10
An hero or live a life of suffering OP, you're an unfortunately fucked unit.
>>2720145
>I can't get laid by real women and the laws keep me from trading candy for blowjobs from preteens
>therefore society is wrong about sex
You can say it over and over and over again, but it's not going to change the fact that in this particular case, society is very right about sex. This kind of shit is damaging as fuck to the kid on the receiving end and this is purely about sex.
Die in a fire you fucking incompetent.
>>2716517
>Creep
>Not even cleavage
Would you like it better if she was 11, pregnant, and wearing a burqa, anon?
vid related: it's what will happen to op before he goes to jail
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDvMJZMZghI
>>2720700
>>>>>>>pol
and shut your cum-stained bigoted mouth , imbecile
>>2715482
no
but you better live in europe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8BOBEZL9sk
>>2718895
What country and culture is okay with this? Probably Italy or some other European country
>>2719766
>22 year old
Why not 18 who looks young. 22 is too old to find someone who looks super young
>>2715923
Is this b8? Why are you even talking to 13 year olds to begin with
>>2720815
>can't come up with actual rebuttal
>calls me a /pol/ack and gay which are both hardly insults as much as they are teases
Darling you're just pissy and repressed because you saw a chick showing more skin than just her ankles
>>2716281
>I'm rusty.
I understand
Pedophilia is a social construct nothing wrong with it.
>>2721433
Go back to Tumblr
>>2715923
>Who said porn?
He's right, tho. Where I live what you intend to make photographs of is clearly considered cp. There is no need for nudity at all. Consent of parents or kid doesn't help you either. It's all the same, all cp. This topic was covered in news during The Fappening and with regards to upcoming of sexting around teens. They gave following example. If a 17-year-old girl sends a selfie showing her cleavage to her 18-year-old boyfriend, he has cp on his phone since it is considered sexy and it was implied to be sexy. It would also be cp if both are 17, but being 18 makes him an adult and if anybody would press charges against him for example her father, he'd face law big time. However, charges could be also pressed if he was younger than 18.
Compared to this there is another story that was covered by media. It's legal here that a 39-old woman has a kid with her 15 year old boyfriend. Idk if they are married by now, he probably must turn 16 before they can marry. He probably already is, tho. Idk
I just wanted to show you that if one thing is legal to do another thing does not need to be.
Considering being ethical. It is not ethical what you intend to do by our western standards and this is right. If you work with kids a lot, especially groups of kids, you will find out that you can't hold them responsible for their actions since they can't grasp what they are doing or they grasp it only to a certain extend even if they say they do or you believe they would. You will be proven pretty quickly that your belief was false even with kids you'd consider reasonable. This often holds for people older than 18 too, but by then, it doesn't matter anymore, since they are adults by law. Therefore, your photographs of them were legal, even though they could be morally questionable, if this adult person doesn't fully grasp what's happening or what you intentions are.
>>2721461
Where do you live that cleavage equals cp? If that were the case here then half the girls at the local middle school 7th grade dance were porn stars.
>>2724856
>the girls at the local middle school 7th grade dance
got any photos?
>>2724880
Why yes...yes, I do. But that would distract from my thread.
Going to watch my girls dance Tchaikovsky's "The Nutcracker" with the ballet.
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>>2720145
It's not that sexuality is bad, its that the kid isn't old enough to consent ya dingus.
>>2719451
>reached the age of maturity where I no longer desire to have a sexual relationship with every single female I think is attractive
Just take sexual pictures of them, right?
>>2715482
If you have to consult /p/ to decide if its right or wrong, then its probably wrong.
>>2721461
Nudity isn't cp.
Look up the law specifically, it's more likely than not that it's conditional.
>>2725897
Which isn't a good thing.
Generally that's decided by rather humorless and artless judges.
Irrespective of that, what op wants to do is sexualizing the girl and is illegal.
