So in August in Germany Sony sold more changeable lens cameras than nikon or canon.
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/zeiss-says-in-on-german-market-in-august-sony-sold-more-system-cameras-than-canon-and-nikon/
Is it a sign of the times that the western country most synonymous with photography has moved away from canikon?
Is it the beginning of the end of DSLR style cameras?
Discuss
Are sail boats dead?
Sony's sales have fallen nearly 30% over all. Next year when canikon releases their next generation dslr's and their mirrorless systems, sony will lose their flavor-of the-month appeal and return to obscurity.
>>2702833
moot.
boats are made for life, DSLR's are made for 5 years use. You will always be able to be nostalgic over a sail boat, whereas once the solder in your digital camera grows tin hairs it's dead.
a sail boat is more like film, a relic from the past that's been massively outdated, but some people enjoy the old process.
>>2702834
Sony camera sales have fallen 30%, we're discussing the interchangeable lens market.
P&S camera sales have dropped massively across the board, of course sony's figures will be low. What we do know is that zeiss can't keep up with demand for e mount lenses and the a7rii was on backorder for months. Does this sound like an area that dropped 30%?
>>2702833
For hobby enthusiasts? No.
For actual commercial purposes? Yes, very much.
>>2702837
My point was it's not the piece you're nostalgic for, it's the procedure. Traditional ways will long be seen as far more noble.
>>2702838
>changeable lens cameras
>we're discussing the interchangeable lens market
Sure bub
>>2702841
You think people will be nostalgic for an oversized digital camera with a fragile, flappy mirror inside of it? If they were really keen on the viewfinder experience then surely film slr's, with their ridiculously larger and better viewfinders would be much more up their street.
Once AF performance is on a par or better, Is there any place in the market for a DSLR any more?
>>2702834
>Canon and Nikon release their mirrorless
Either they release new bodies with new mounts, which people would have to buy into all over again, which is not a draw, or they release mirrorless with EF/F mount, There's no draw because they're still huge, and no benefit over a DSLR that people already are shying away from.
Canon will still have a shit sensor, Nikon will be using a Sony sensor...
>>2702844
>OP states changeable lens camera sales
>you give total camera sales
>OP comes back and suggests that your figure may not be indicative for the market sector we are interested in
>you confirm that OP was only talking about changeable lens cameras and you needed to be reminded about it
What point are you making? That OP was right all along?
>>2702847
>There's no draw because they're still huge, and no benefit over a DSLR that people already are shying away from
Yep, should take a cue from all the people who buy an A7 + Metabones so they can mount their fuckhuge Canon lenses on them (because Sony has next to no native lenses, and the ones they do have break the bank).
But it's all good because this Sony camera is marginally smaller than your Canikon, yet in practice the size difference makes little to no difference. HA! Take that, D-SLR plebs.
>>2702847
>There's no draw because they're still huge
The nikon fm is the size of a fuji mirrorless aps-c camera. The dslr's are big because it was popular, they can easily be made smaller. The flange distance is not an issue.
>>2702847
Canon have confirmed they are moving to Sony sensors.
So basically Sony are the only company that have any potential to create an objectively better body.
lewl.
>>2702852
Oh, I never realised we could fit in a sensor, circuitboard and lcd screen in the same depth as a very thin aluminium plate and film.
Donglord.
>>2702847
Keep your babyhanded notions of size to yourself, the only people that complain about DSLRs being too big or heavy are the /p/ussies on this board.
>>2702853
Is that true? I hadn't heard that. That's great news! Source?
>>2702859
There was no complaint about size. Merely a mention of the obvious fact that for many people, a smaller kit is a draw of mirrorless.
>>2702898
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/canon-to-use-sony-sensors-on-their-future-dslr-cameras/
>>2702905
"It is not the first time we are told Canon may abandon their sensor business and adopt third-party sensors (1 | 2 | 3). Nevertheless, I think this rumor is nothing but a hoax."
Wow. Thanks for sharing. I can definitely see why you suggest this is known fact.
>Canon has confirmed
indeed.
>>2702905
>rumors site
R u fkn srs rite now
>>2702847
>>2702834
Canon is kind of in the shitter right now.
You know their cycles, they release a big camera with a big splash. That camera is supposed to hold the line for 4-5 years before reinforcements arrives.
That's the 50MP 5DS R.
That thing is supposed to hold the line over the next 4 years against Sony/Nikon.
Canon is fucked.
Canon just really needs to get their sensor shit together. The bodies are great and the controls are comfy as fuck, too bad they're wrapped around an underperforming sensor.
>>2702955
Hey, they're going to make a "pro mirrorless camera" with "pro AF" and "best in class video capabilities" :^)
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=28275.0
I can't wait for the inevitable huge disappointment when the AF still sucks and only 1080p video.
>>2702955
>That's the 50MP 5DS R.
Lots of detail, no dynamic range. Hope there's a lot of product photographers out there looking for that!
>>2702966
as a product photographer, i can say those specs would be completely useless as a camera for our needs.
fuck, for most web and catalog work i still use a ten year old low megapixel camera with a large ccd, which means stupid large photosites.
resolution just isn't needed, decent color sensitivity is.
fuck 50 mp of shitty color data. it all gets downscaled to a MP or two anyway.
>>2702851
What he said.
>>2702827
>1) Michael said that Sony is very popular in Germany. In August for the very first time Sony sold more interchangeable cameras than Nikon and Canon!
I can tell you why (I've worked at a camera store a couple years ago)-
Sony has been offering very attractive retail margins for some time now. They also offer two full years of warranty in Germany- unlike Canikon. Plus, despite the big margin, Sony is able to offer their well equipped cameras at a very nice price.
As a retailer, you'll also receive benefits in form of rebates or even money if you happen to sell quite a lot of Sony cameras within a certain timespan.
>>2703060
>They also offer two full years of warranty in Germany- unlike Canikon
Well, that's just fucking redundant since every retailer selling goods in the European Union must offer 2 full years of warranty if a product is new.
Canon and Nikon also give a 2 year warranty on ALL items within a European Union country. Regardless of whether you return it to a camera store or a service center or not. This makes no difference. Your unique insight is worth naught.
Performance incentives or rebates are the only thing, but that's just down to Sony being smarter.
>>2702856
Do you have a smartphone?
>>2702827
>Is it the beginning of the end of DSLR style cameras?
No, DSLR will be more specialized, which it should be. DSLR is great for sports, wildlife, hiking, and some forms of commercial photography.
Mirrorless can, should, and probably will take over everything else. Taking pictures of family shit, tourism, small events, your friends, etc doesn't need a DSLR, it just needs a capable mirrorless camera. Shitty mirrorless cameras will overtake shitty DSLR's, which is fine. Everytime I see a tourist with a kit lens and cheap DSLR I just wonder why they don't have a mirrorless camera. For 95% of people out there, even changable lenses are overkill, they just need a decent P&S.
>>2703248
>hiking
why?
>>2703264
Yeah I second that question. Long backpacking trips maybe, but not just straight hiking or climbing.
>>2703248
>For 95% of people out there, even changable lenses are overkill, they just need a decent P&S.
Yet we still recommend a Dslr to almost every person that comes on here. It's like /p/ doesn't understand you can do toy photography with a P&S - nope you need to buy a 5D800Mk2ASE with a $1000 lens to take pictures of your figurines,
>>2702905
I wouldn't mind this is Canon also introduced better video quality without ML hackery or huge price jumps. But how expensive is it for Canon to buy the 1DX sensors in bulk? Can't me much more than $300 each right? I'd take that over 50MP crap if they put it on a 5D or something.
>>2703305
It's true, you don't. But entry level DSLRs represent the cheapest way to get high quality optics and sensor.
>>2703060
Apart from the warranty bullshit you've already spouted, what you say about margins just isn't true. I regularly speak to the guys in 2 local stores and they said the only bodies they make more than a couple of quid off is pentax, but even then it's only around 10%. The market is too competitive, especially with the Internet to charge more, it's not the 80's any more where haggling 40% off in store is just a part of buying a camera.
They make their money on accessories, Where 1000% markups aren't uncommon.
>>2703314
You can get a second hand nex 5, with the massively capable 16mp sensor for around $100, this is vastly cheaper than a k5 or d7100, dslr's with the same sensor.
>>2703376
>the only thing that matters in a camera is the sensor and image quality
If this was true we'd just have big circles as cameras, on one end a shutter button and a screen, on the other end the lens mount. Yet the manufacturers take all these extra steps to make sure the cameras have comfortable grips, reasonable button placements, top LCD, weather sealing, etc. Gee I wonder why that is.
>>2703305
>how do you feed your children if you don't sell expensive cameras to manchildren?
>>2703394
Read the comment I was replying to child.
>>2703394
I work for a camera store.
Everyone is doing ok, Canikon is defiantly down at the moment but they are on the brink of extinction or anything.
We do however sell a lot of mirrorless, OM-Ds and E mount shit almost sell themselves.
>>2703426
Do you think that's just fanboys buying it up because it's cool and new like the newest iphone? Or do you think they're selling because they're actually better cameras with a serious future potential.
I ask because right now I'm having a serious debate between the A7ii and the D750.
>>2703427
People do not buy cameras for this reason...
Also, why would the trends of complete strangers in some dude's camera store affect what camera is best for you and your purposes?
The cameras are completely different, and their differences are absolutely obvious. Which camera better suits your needs?
>>2703427
They are great cameras. E mount is finally getting the depth of glass variety it deserves and its a HUGE selling point to be able to say to people that they can get a small E mount mirrorless now, and carry all of their lenses with them when they go to more pro bodies, even all the way to full frame. Building a lifelong lens collection is a real value proposition to people.
The EVFs are also good enough now to rely on and not be a liability.
Ive been a canon guy for a decade but in a another month or two I'm gonna get a a6000 as a second body to my 5Dmk3. I get employee pricing on sony because we're an official vendor, so I can get a 6000 for like $250, but even at 489 ish for the body its a good deal.
>>2703436
Cont.
I also speculate that some of the reason that compacts are going by the wayside is the viewfinder. You would not believe the number of people that demand a viewfinder when they come in. Which I suspect is why the Hx90 has a pop up EVF now.
>>2703436
a7000.
>>2703436
>Building a lifelong lens collection is a real value proposition to people.
For what it is worth, I wonder how real that one will be on the E-mount. It's not exactly an open standard so far, and most E-mount glass is -while better that most of the competition- still only "adequate" for 42MP cameras already.
My guess? You'll want new glass not too far in the future.
It is still a great step up.
>>2703248
> DSLR is great for sports, wildlife, hiking
Or mirrorless. Honestly, I don't see these remaining on DSLR for particularly long from now.
>>2703434
The fuck they don't.
However, the decisions of other people can give you insight into the trends of which cameras are popular. Sometimes technologies are popular because they're downright better. Sometimes they're popular because it's "cool." THAT is why the trend of a complete stranger in a camera store can and SHOULD affect your purchasing decisions. Because you can actually learn. Try it sometime.
I want a nice lightweight camera for landscape photography. That's an A7ii
I need it to be weather sealed because I go on serious hiking and camping trips. That's a D750
I need some legit battery life because on long backpacking trips you can't just recharge your shit. That's a D750
For wildlife, IBIS and focus peaking is super amazing. That's an A7ii
But on sensor phase detect autofocus lacks compared to standard AF. So that's D750.
Ok, so since it's completely obvious to you, go ahead and tell me which camera better suits my needs.
>>2703400
In all honestly for everything other than the GH4, that cylinder is all m4/3 should have been.
>>2703745
A lot of people buy Ford trucks. Does that mean I should buy one? Or does it probably depend on my personal needs and priorities?
Also:
>Sometimes technologies are popular because they're downright better. Sometimes they're popular because it's "cool."
this is a reason to ignore trends, not follow them. if you don't know whether people are buying a better camera, or a cool camera, their reasoning is unknowable, and should therefore be discarded.
But the camera that you need. The end. Nobody else matters. At all
>>2703023
can you be more specific on that ccd cam?
pls gibe name
>>2703752
Right. So how about now you address the second half of my post where I showed you that BOTH cameras fit my needs in some way. That's why I'm looking at trends, because the raw specs don't clarify shit for my "personal needs and priorities."
>>2703436
Hook it up on an A7rii, bruh. I'm a professional brewer, I'll send you a lifetime supply of beer.
>>2702846
>You think people will be nostalgic for an oversized digital camera with a fragile, flappy mirror inside of it?
There will always be retards you prefer to use outdated, inefficient, low quality tech. Lomography, vinyl records, classic cars, etc.
>>2703427
If you shoot stuff that moves go for the Nikon. Your sensor is meaningless if your shit is out of focus
>>2703427
D750
christ what an amazing camera i can't say enough about mine
>>2703870
And he bailed.
>>2703745
>I need some legit battery life because on long backpacking trips you can't just recharge your shit. That's a D750
Why don't you just bring multiple battery senpai
>>2704278
Because then that completely negates the weight savings of the A7ii vs the D750.
>>2704283
Sonyfags BTFO
>>2704286
Great answer, dicklord.
Hello. The best camera is the one you use.
I live in NYC so I see a lot of tourists. I'm seeing a lot more people with sony A7 series cameras. For a while I was seeing a lot of NEX type cameras which made sense to me since they were small. A bigger camera makes a bit less sense for a tourist but people take their photography more seriously and spend more money and get more advanced gear. When I say "a lot" I mean just a noticeable amount. Most people still use phones while other use DSLRs but I think Sony is gaining ground.
What I don't see much of is M4/3. The only time I see them is where people there are a lot of non-tourist photographers like photo expo or photo store and even then in minuscule amounts. I think Sony is doing better than I once thought. At first I thought they were making great cameras but were simply not reaching the mainstream, just a few enthusiasts. Now I see them out in the wild it looks like they are really selling. Canon and Nikon are still huge and Sony is just moving up. I don't think mirrorless will take over anytime soon. I just think the landscape of major brands will change.
