Is it just me or where I live, when I happen to meet a photographer they are mostly in their 20's and older? Sure there are young students studying photography and there are teenage hipsters who think they are photographers but from what I am seeing most photographers that consistently produce good results are already mature.
Is it because most photographers get into photography after college unlike music wherein we have child prodigies? Or is it because photography gear have always been costly? Or is it even with recent developments such as smartphones already getting high quality photos, photography is a hard art form to master and it takes years of hardwork and talent in order to produce decent work?
Pic not that related but it is a work of one of my favorite photographers.
Photography cant be trained and just requires the ability to see and approach subjects from all kinds of perspectives
I wouldnt say that necessarily maturity makes good photographs but people in their 20s and older already have a pretty good idea of what they want to be and what kind of people they are and photography is really just about personal vision cause taking a picture isnt hard at all these days from a standpoint of technical skill
>>2683898
19 year old reporting in
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>>2683903
cont
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Camera-Specific Properties: Equipment Make Hasselblad Camera Model Hasselblad H5D-40 Camera Software Adobe Photoshop CC 2015 (Macintosh) Photographer Jake Reeder Maximum Lens Aperture f/3.0 Focal Length (35mm Equiv) 63 mm Image-Specific Properties: Image Width 1500 Image Height 2000 Number of Bits Per Component 8, 8, 8 Pixel Composition RGB Image Orientation Top, Left-Hand Horizontal Resolution 581 dpi Vertical Resolution 581 dpi Image Created 2015:10:12 22:26:39 Exposure Time 1/800 sec F-Number f/4.0 Exposure Program Manual ISO Speed Rating 100 Lens Aperture f/4.0 Subject Distance 0.79 m Metering Mode Other Flash No Flash Focal Length 80.00 mm Color Space Information sRGB Image Width 750 Image Height 1000
>>2683905
3/3
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Camera-Specific Properties: Equipment Make Hasselblad Camera Model Hasselblad H5D-40 Camera Software Adobe Photoshop CC 2015 (Macintosh) Photographer Jake Reeder Maximum Lens Aperture f/3.0 Focal Length (35mm Equiv) 63 mm Image-Specific Properties: Image Width 1500 Image Height 1125 Number of Bits Per Component 8, 8, 8 Pixel Composition RGB Image Orientation Top, Left-Hand Horizontal Resolution 661 dpi Vertical Resolution 661 dpi Image Created 2015:10:12 22:28:44 Exposure Time 1/800 sec F-Number f/7.1 Exposure Program Manual ISO Speed Rating 100 Lens Aperture f/7.1 Subject Distance 7.67 m Metering Mode Other Flash No Flash Focal Length 80.00 mm Color Space Information sRGB Image Width 1000 Image Height 750
Oh really? It takes time to develop a skill? Man you should call a science magazine, this is an absolute breakthrough!
>>2683898
In their 20's is still super young. I guess photographing skills come with the years. Of course there are people that make awesome photographs right when they start, but those are exceptions.
Also what you already mentioned is that gear is quite expensive. I've never seen a 13 year old with an expensive camera.
>>2683903
with a 10k camera
>>2683923
Can I see some of yours? Not being a smartarse- genuinely curious.
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Camera-Specific Properties: Equipment Make Hasselblad Camera Model Hasselblad H5D-40 Camera Software Adobe Photoshop CC 2015 (Macintosh) Photographer Jake Reeder Maximum Lens Aperture f/3.0 Focal Length (35mm Equiv) 63 mm Image-Specific Properties: Image Width 1500 Image Height 2000 Number of Bits Per Component 8, 8, 8 Pixel Composition RGB Image Orientation Top, Left-Hand Horizontal Resolution 300 dpi Vertical Resolution 300 dpi Image Created 2015:10:12 22:57:41 Exposure Time 1/400 sec F-Number f/5.6 Exposure Program Manual ISO Speed Rating 100 Lens Aperture f/5.6 Subject Distance 2.03 m Metering Mode Other Flash No Flash Focal Length 80.00 mm Color Space Information sRGB Image Width 750 Image Height 1000
>>2683924
I really like this one. Also how the fuckery do you afford a 10k camera body at age 19?
>>2683927
gonna go out on a whim and guess rich parents or inheritance
>>2683927
Believe it or not it's not actually >>2683929
I do come from a relatively well-off background, so that might've taught me something about saving, but all the money I've dropped on photography has been my own. I assist a lot (and I mean a lot), and the pay's pretty decent. It's about prioritising photography I suppose. I recently picked up a red, and to buy that I went full-on jewmode with everything else.
Like I don't have a license, and you wouldn't blink twice at a 19 year old with a 10k (17k when I bought it) car right?
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>>2683927
ps thanks haha
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come take my picture and i'll take yours
>>2683934
Great photos man. Can you use the camera to do street and whatnot? Bit of a noob just wondering
I'd say it's a combination of factors that prefer older people including, but not limited to
Cost of entry in terms of cash
Cost of time in terms of your average teenager wont be willing to get up at 4am
Travelling ability and lack of vehicle
Photography isn't really that interesting unless you're a photographer, hence the barrier of entry in terms of interest is higher for younger people with other hobbies/interests
>Is it because most photographers get into photography after college unlike music wherein we have child prodigies?
Yes, accessibility is a factor
>Or is it because photography gear have always been costly?
Yes
>Or is it even with recent developments such as smartphones already getting high quality photos, photography is a hard art form to master and it takes years of hardwork and talent in order to produce decent work?
Yes
While I don't like comparing photography to other art mediums, look at the age range in painters and artists and you'll notice similar trends with only some exception because of barrier to entry in terms of cost.
>>2683952
Medium Format cameras (like this guys uses) are super heavy and bulky and not suited to street work at all. They're made to live on a tripod really, such as in a studio setting.
>>2683952
Thanks! >>2683957 is right on all counts- I'm a bit of a masochist taking it and lights out on location by myself. My arms hurt all the time.
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>>2683898
>photography is a hard art form to master and it takes years of hardwork and talent in order to produce decent work
Partlyt true. Yes photography takes years to master but producing decent work in photography isn't that hard. A landscape photo with good lighting will almost always be decent meaning an ordinary guy with an iPhone can take a shot of that place and it can be called a good photo. That is why photography can't be a true art in a sense. An untrained photographer can almost take the exact same photo of a professional provided he is in the exact same situation. Unlike in painting for instance, you need years and years of training in order to produce decent work.
Think of it like this, if I give each one of you photographers even Ansel Adams an excellent set of pencils and paints and a canvass and have you paint and draw something all of you will hardly produce anything of artistic value. However if I give those at /ic/ and artist like H.R. Giger a camera they can already produce good enough photos.
Don't tell everyone again that photography is hard. It's just a simple hobby like stamp collecting but bloated into proportions by gearfags who don't even shoot in order to justify their purchase of camera gear and lenses. Photography is fun yes but it isn't comparable to real visual arts like architecture, painting, sculpture etc. wherein you are creating something and not just copying it through photos.
>>2683996
your argument is based on the assumption that a correct photo with a great subject and nice lighting equals art, which it is not. Art is highly subjective in any medium and cannot be pinned down to a few simple words. A technically shit snapshit taken with a lomo can be art as much as a perfect landscape or portrait shot with a large format or something, depending on who you ask.
Similarly, a perfect painting of a landscape can be art as much as a white canvas with a red strip painted on it.
When i was 16 i got a Canon DSLR after hearing about its film making capabilities (i wanted to be a filmmaker), and found myself taking 100x more photos than videos. It just kind of became a thing i wanted to get good at.
>>2683934
>I assist a lot (and I mean a lot)
How did you get assistant work at such a young age, before (seemingly) you had a good camera?
>>2684047
lol, assistants don't have cameras. they assist. they lug shit around and set up lights and get coffee and unload cards when necessary. they do all the donkey work.
>>2683900
>photography can't be trained
False. With practice and observation, most people can cultivate a good eye for photographs.
>>2684047
I think my age worked in my favour- I started hanging around a studio for free, soaking up knowledge etc. People are pretty nice if you listen to them! So I just sent this photographer I liked an email, and we met and clicked (pun not intended). Eventually hanging around transitioned into what >>2684194 said- assisting is basically just lifting heavy things, getting coffee, understanding the shoot politics, and keeping your mouth shut. And if you're good, then you'll get recommended to other people. I assist probably 4 photographers on a regular basis, of those, 2 I'm really close with. All you need to be an assistant is half a brain, attentiveness and lots of gaffer tape
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>>2684201
There's a huge body of evidence to the contrary.
>>2684047
oh, just so you get a rough idea of timelines:
Started hanging out age 16 (year 12)
Started assisting on paid jobs age 17 (1st year uni)
Bought Hassey july last year (not that it has anything to do with assisting)
Started getting passed on shoots, going to prod meetings etc. 1st assistant (now, 3rd year uni)
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>>2683996
i think editorial photography is art, seen in fashion magazines and the like.
setting up props, scene designs, directing models, having a vision is all something that takes years to learn.
>>2684201
You can get educated but when I say trained I mean from a muscle memory kind of perspective like playing the piano or whatever cause the OP mentioned child prodigy musicians
>>2683996
What a load of bollocks, anyone is free to express themselves using whatever medium they choose.
You are free to like it or dislike as you see fit but to claim it isn't valid as artistic expression just because they don't use tools that you approve of is elitist faggottry of the highest order.
>>2683996
This guy is essentially right.
>>2684532
how is he even remotely right?
>>2683898
>but from what I am seeing most photographers that consistently produce good results are already mature.
Go figure. Its almost like its a skill that takes years to refine and develop.
Fetch me my fainting couch, the surprise is overpowering.
>>2684535
How is he wrong? Try to leave your attacked ego out of it.
>>2684558
You don't address any of his points. Whatever you personally think is art, would be just as easy for a first timer to create as a it is for a "master".
I can take my 93 year old grandma to a mountain at the right time of day, and hand her a camera on full auto mode, and she'll produce a great photo. I can take almost any photographer in the world to that same spot with 100 paint brushes, a blank canvas, and an infinite amount of paint, and end up with garbage.
>>2684562
yes? and that was my point. Whether your grandma created art or whether a famous photographer created art is going to lie in the eye of the viewer. You really can't say that a perfect painting is art and a perfect photo is not just because it was easier to produce.
Goddamn have art threads become painful on /p/ lately. If you retards can't even discuss your medium on basic, sub-moronic terms, it's time to find a new hobby.
19 years old here. I started a year ago with the eos 10 of my grandfather an now continue with a nikon FE, F3 and a rollei 35S ( the one I took the photo with) and when I look at my first roll of film you already see the differences ( 1 year ago). So maybe if I keep it up I think in 5 years you can learn a lot but mostly it's about timing and places. Not skill
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>2684631 another one
>>2684315
>theres a huge body of evidence to back up my opinion
>doesn't show any of it
Thanks for playing, faggot
>>2684642
Nigger, you're swimming in it. Look at all of these technically astute photographers who can't produce to save their life.
>>2684314
I really admire your work and I have to admit I feel pangs of frustration and jealousy knowing these are coming from a 19 year old.
Then again, Ive never been around a studio, and its whole nother world of photography
Im going to start a personal project to shoot portraits of everyone I know with a 500cm. Saving your pics for inspo, although my pictures will be in more natural environments and I dont use flash at all.
Heres one of my more favorite portraits. Portra shot with a minolta Maxxum stsi
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>>2684653
>lel, menelta
You had it set to b&w when you were shooting colour Film!
>>2684658
No I didnt I used a black and white filter you fuckin noob
>this guy
lol n00b
>>2684565
>art is subjective
fucking hate people like you
>>2683898
>Sure there are young students studying photography and there are teenage hipsters who think they are photographers but from what I am seeing most photographers that consistently produce good results are already mature.
How many painters or carpenters or coders do you see consistently producing good work that are under 20?
A very small minority.
Same as photography.
>>2683898
In photography you're rarely perfect. When you look at your last shots you might be thinking you could've done that better. Since taking a shot is perpetuating a moment, you need to see that moment coming and shoot before it's there. There are so many factors determinding if a picture looks good that you can get addicted to it or danger yourself (i.e the motor sports photographers who stand on a risky side of the track or nature photographers who reach up to dangerous places in rocky areas for example). Photography is just such a big and overlapping topic and we are coined by it. Because time keeps going photography will keep going too. Meanwhile I'm letting my thoughts float trough the keyboard there are thousands of pictures and videos made all over the world.
Two huge parts of why photographers seem to tend to be older than you is obviously because of smart phones and because of the money and care (and a lot of time) this hobby consumes.
For my part, I'm 18 and growing up with technology and being teached by my father made me develop skills early and I've been loving to take pictures since I can remember.
Photography is not for everyone and you need to have the feel and the good eye to be a natural talent. I'm high.
>>2684814
?
>>2684864
postmodernist special snowflake detected
>>2684532
>This guy is essentially right.
Thanks man. I know I will be attacked by what I said there but as a photographer myself I feel the need to enlighten other photographers with the truth.
>>2684882
???
>>2683996
LOL
You have no grasp on what it means to create art if you think that an artistic photo is a pedestrian shot at perfect exposure of a fucking sunset.
> ordinary guy with an iPhone can take a shot of that place and it can be called a good photo. That is why photography can't be a true art in a sense
This is where you armchair critic elitist faggots show your true unoriginal colours. The fact that you can equate taking a technically good photo as the closest that a photographer can get to doing something artistic really shows how far youve been pushed into the box.
The artistic aspect of photography isn't in capturing a pretty image of an object. Its in capturing a feeling, a mood or a sense of time and place that goes far beyond what is seen within the frame. A good photograph is good becauses it captures a unique sense of what it was like to be there, or an insight into the human condition.
This is what separates photographic artists and plebs pointing a camera at shit.
For example lets look at some great photographers. Il just throw out Bresson, Koudelka and Klein for arguments sake. If you look at their work you see a technical brilliance, but you also see an unmistakable talent for conveying an idea or mood that completely transcends the image in front of you. The artistic element is their eye, and this eye is really the differential between "stamp collector" and artist.
If you go and get yourself educated on some actual great photographic artists you might not be so ignorant as to believe that anyone can produce a 'great' photo. Or maybe you dont understand what a great photo really is.
Either way you need to get educated before spewing this bullshit on the impressionable minds of the average young /p/leb.That or evolve past taking photos of flowers and your cat.
Just turned 20, got into photography after visiting the Philippines and my uncle loaned me one of his cameras to use. A few tips and a couple of SD cards later I found a new hobby. Working on saving up for a new camera in the near future. On that note I appear to have forgotten how to resize photos in lightroom without their quality dropping to shit, this being one that turned out right.
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>>2685334
You didn't get the point of the post.
It's just says that photography isn't hard as you guys keep saying. The works of Bresson, Koudelka and Klein can be easily replicated given the time and situation. Yes their photographs did "conveying an idea or mood that completely transcends the image in front of you" like what you said but so did other photographers who didn't have to spend years and years studying photography.
These photographs done by a 19 year old anon proves my point. >>2683903
>>2683934
>>2684314
>>2684317
These artistically and technically well done photographs. No offense to the "great" photographers you mentioned but I believe he can already take the photographs of those "greats". What I simply said is that photography isn't as hard as you people keep spouting about. That is the reason why it is a popular hobby in the first place as compared to other arts like painting, sculpting etc. Add the fact that painters and sculptors don't brag and have gearfaggotry.
In regards to photography being an art I believe the word associated to it sums it up. You don't "create" or "make" a photo you "take" a photo. An artist "creates" and "makes", he doesn't "take" unless he wants to copy something.
>>2684653
Thanks dude! Just approaching the subject with respect is the most important thing imo.
>>2685334
I'd agree that technique has almost nothing to do with making a good photo. But if I'm understanding right, >>2685386 is saying that photography is a subtractive process rather than an additive one- which means by fluke or other means, sometimes people do come up with accidental or subconscious work. Dali said photography was the ultimate surrealism!
ps thanks >>2685386
and >>2685377, word of advice- for the first 3 years you're shooting (assuming you're shooting lots), don't show people your photos. You'll thank me for this advice later haha
>>2685377
Hi Flip here.
Did you enjoy staying here in the Philippines? I seem to wonder why almost all my pics have harsh strong sunlight as compared to shots like these: >>2684631 >>2683954. Is it because this is a tropical country and it's either raining (overcast) or strong sunlight? I mean I tried shooting at late in the afternoon as well but the lighting is still kind of sharp.
Pic is mine.
>>2683903
>19
>has hasselblad
REEEEEEEEE
>>2685436
topkek
>>2685436
yeah look it's not the light that's an issue here
>>2684817
I honestly see plenty of skilled/"talented" coders and painters. Most of them are around the age of 16.
>>2685386
No your wrong, he can take technically good photographs, but shooting models in a perfect lighting situation while aesthetically gorgeous, creates nothing past a pretty picture.
Your argument relys on the fact that Photograpy is relatively easy for the average scrub to take a nice picture. Where as painting for example is very difficult to get past the stage of having it look like absolute dog shit.
But this is bullshit, because even in painting, its not the technical brilliance that creates the best artists, but the freshness of their ideas, or the difference in their technique that creates something truly beautiful and unique. It is this x factor that seperates the arse scratcher from the auteur, and truly the idea that is sailing over your head, if you consider the 19 year old's pictures artistic.
If your point was true, then in reality we should see many photos on /p/ every day that we can consider great up to the level of those titans of history. There are plenty of people on this board that can get a pretty picture of a sunset, or the NY city skyline, but how often have you really seen a truly great picture that jumped out at you as being more than the sum of its parts?
I can honestly say i havent seen one. I havent seen anybody really create a body of work here or set of pictures that amounted to shit. And that is because it is a skill that surpasses pure technique.
On another note, have you ever looked through a proper photography book? I think id you did it would clear a few things up for you in terms of what i mean by that extra something something that determines art. I would argue that you can look at photography books as the real artistic creation of the photographer, a collection of images that together creates a mood, or en-captures a little part of humanity withini its pages. Just like a film. ( i seriously hope you consider film art....)
Its one thing for a pleb to fluke a great image, its impossible to fluke a book.
>>2685632
>your wrong
>"It's Like Rain" starts playing.
19 here.
Two photoclubs around where I live.
I went to meetings with both and they were full of old men (65+) sharing pics of the grandchildren and flowers taken with 5d3's and M9's.
Nobody wanted or offered c&c.
That was what made me quit photography altogether really.
Don't know why I still visit this board.
>>2685650
Fuck off then
>>2685471
Who are producing CONSISTENTLY good work?
Doubtful.
>>2683996
Yeah photography is different than the other arts. I wouldn't say better or worse though.
With photography you more or less skip the years that are required with something like drawing to be able to produce what you want. Anyone can take a properly exposed and focused photograph but to draw anything realistic you need to spend years practicing. But because of that even something that would be a snapshot in photography is impressive when drawn simply because of the skill required to be able to draw photorealistically. So in a way I would say that with photography everyone has equal possibilities to take a good photograph the moment he picks up the camera. But at the same time with drawing I would say pretty much only your skill to draw matters. You can draw whatever you want from your room. But you can't for example take a photograph of a mountain if you live somewhere where there are no mountains near you. This is what I personally dislike about photography and made me pretty much quit. Instead of your skill being your limit you are limited by your surroundings and your means. You need money to travel the world, you need connections to get into areas that are not open for public, you need courage for street photography and in the end luck is also involved.
>>2685650
well, good for you.
best thread in a while
Child prodigies in music are like trained seals. Talented trained seals, but seals nonetheless.
You can teach them technique, but they often haven't experienced enough to develop their own style of playing. It's more obvious in photography than music when someone's relying on the crutch of someone else's style or what's trendy to become experienced enough to decide for themselves what to do.
>>2685632
Funny you post a Mccullin photo there- he'd balk at the suggestion that his photos are artistic.
>>2685732
What about Shostakovich or Mozart
>>2685650
>Two photoclubs around where I live.
>I went to meetings with both and they were full of old men (65+) sharing pics of the grandchildren and flowers taken with 5d3's and M9's.
>Nobody wanted or offered c&c.
That is why I try to avoid photoclubs or camera clubs altogether. There's a so-called "premier" camera club here who thinks they are the best but looking at the members they are mostly old rich men who are just into photography because they see cameras as collector's items and as an investment to protect their wealth. You can hardly see their photos which I also doubt if they even have the time to shoot due to their busy schedule. If they have photos they have photos of their Contax, Leica, Hasselblad etc.
People my age (20 somethings) probably take better pictures with their iPhones because at least they go out and take photos.
>>2686062
His earliest works, of course
>>2686062
everything is a rip-off
>>2685677
>This is what I personally dislike about photography and made me pretty much quit. Instead of your skill being your limit you are limited by your surroundings and your means. You need money to travel the world, you need connections to get into areas that are not open for public, you need courage for street photography and in the end luck is also involved.
I know that feel mang. In the end just go out there and shoot.
>>2683934
>you wouldn't blink twice at a 19 year old with a 10k (17k when I bought it) car right?
No, but I would assume that mummy & daddy paid for it.
I'm 19 and I have developed my skills to the point where I produce consistently mediocre content.
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Photography is different to most other artistic professions. It doesn't just take talent and experience, everything you do is paid for by someone else rather than just by someone paying for your paintings or something after seeing it in a gallery. People need to see other portraits and wedding pics and whatever that you've done and decide whether or not to pay you for the job. If you've not got years of those under your belt people generally aren't interested. It's one of the reasons so many young enthusiasts hire models and stuff to take photos of. Get it in your portfolio and stick a print of it in your metaphorical shop window.
>>2686404
>Photography is different to most other artistic professions. It doesn't just take talent and experience, everything you do is paid for by someone else rather than just by someone paying for your paintings or something after seeing it in a gallery.
No, photography is exactly the same model as painting if you're actually doing it as fine art, which is not what you're describing.
>>2686163
17,000/500 = 34 days of assisting. Is that really unbelievable in a year?
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>>2686450
/o/ here.
>bought a 17k car and losing 7k out the door.
good goy.
>>2683903
>buying an expensive medium format camera with only 40MP
Why?
>>2683912
>could have a pentaks and other shit you don't need.
>>2686462
>buying MF for MP and not glorious sync speed and colour depth
>>2686482
>could have a pentaks
you just wanted to show of daddy money.
>>2686482
Fuck me, I wish you people would stop going on about a 1/500 sync like it's a gift from god.
G R
R
>it will do this all the way to its max speed btw
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>>2683898
Great photography isn't about great pictures, it's about great projects. Those take time to get good at and rely other skills than just setting exposure and composing.
TLDR;
My opinion? Photography is less about art, and more about documentation.
We don't take pictures of babies because babies are some inherently artful subject. We document their young lives to serve as memories.
We don't see street photography as an art, because it's nothing more than documenting daily life.
A wide receiver making a one-handed catch over a safety in the end zone isn't artistic; it's a documentary image showing the athlete's skill in acquiring a touchdown.
The only thing relatively artistic in photography are staged conceptual photos. Arranging the scene, directing models, using the right props and clothing, etc, all require a specific vision to create the entire photo.
While a painter or drawer could sit down at a canvas and start working from their mind's eye, photographers have to put things in place and light them so that they match what is in their mind's eye.
That is artistic. Taking photos of people, sports, cars, animals, and even landscapes to an extent, are all documentary. Some people might find art within that documentary, just as some the people find art in pieces of toast, but that doesn't make it inherently artistic.
>>2686659
That's not even what this thread is about, butt fuck it, I'll bite.
For a photograph to be artistic, there needs to be some degree of abstraction. Rather than, say, a picture being of a child learning to blow bubbles, it could be about the innocence and wonder of childhood (god I feel basic for having typed that).
But the skill in photography as an art form is the ability to effectively demonstrate and highlight this abstraction through composition, lighting, colour, etc.
That said, there are types of photography which are almost purely documentary, i.e. sports photography, photojournalism. Even these can be artistic, though, by effectively representing certain emotion like the victory after a difficult game or the effects of political strife, respectively.
TL;DR
art makes you feel something
>>2686488
1/500 is a big deal. Don't be an idiot.
>>2686776
No, that's a childish interpretation and it's wrong.
Go read Criticizing Photographs by Terry Barrett.
>>2686780
>implying art isn't subjective
I'll read it and get back, but I want to know what was wrong about what I said, if you would oblige a shitty tripfag
>>2686851
I know you're young, but the sooner you stop saying that "art is subjective", the better off you'll be.
The only people who say that are the ones who have never read a single book about art history or art theory and thus have nothing insightful to say when pressed for an opinion for debate. It's a platitude.
Fuck yes art is subjective. So is literally every other form of artistic, humanistic and even some scientific endeavor. That doesn't mean that there aren't rigidly defined criteria for evaluating the worth and artistic merit of a work.
Someday you'll all have an original thought, but it isn't the day.
The fact that a photograph is necessarily an image of something that exists does not diminish its artistic value. Subject matter does not matter. The art of photography is an acceptance that material things either have or do not have an intrinsic value and that either distinction is equally worthy of a shutter actuation. The job of a photographer is to remove the barrage of distractions, the billions of bits of competing stimuli that do diminish that artistry. The action of photography does this by removing everything but light (an inherent abstraction). Generally a bad photograph leaves too much information while a good photograph pictures only enough or too little. That isn't to say a photograph must have few compositional elements, only that it must relate them in a way that means something.
The criticism of photography that it is machine made and is reproducible is simply a bullshit criticism by assholes who think themselves more interesting and esoteric and relevant for the false assumption that their hand is any less mechanical.
>>2686776
After the third or fourth comparison to other art forms, it seemed to be what it it was about. So whatever.
As far as emotion being the deciding factor in what art is, then I'm a stone cold psycopath. I've never once been moved to tears, or joy, or anger, over a piece of art, no matter the medium. That's not to say some people don't get emotional when it comes to art, but it's definitely not a requirement.
Art is technical proficiency mixed with creativity. Taking pictures of anything that you haven't put the time into arranging, or at least modifying with lighting, is nothing more than a documentation of that scene. Technically, it could be an astounding photo, but creatively, there's nothing there that the photographer did, other than press the button. Likewise, the photographer could be a creative genius, but if they aren't technically proficient, the art will be lost in the mistakes.
A photographer has to be able to do both before being able to call any of his work art, and even then, since art is subjective, as you say, it's only going to appeal to a small audience.
>>2686780
Tru but textbookcore tbh
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>>2686967
You bought that book because I have been shilling it on this board for like eight years.
just fyi
>>2686984
Required material in college actually. Had it for abt 5 years.
OK kids, here is an old Master Photographer to give some perspective. I've made millions over the last thirty years shooting portraiture. I always wondered why so many people came to me when it was so simple. Then I looked at how crappy most other photographers work was and found that was not the factor. So it's this. The importance of the negative space. That's the part that draws the eye into the image. It must have a message or story that it tells. And I have found that "is" not "does" is way more powerful of a statement. In other words the power of a painter holding a brush with a pensive look at the camera (viewer) vs. An artist looking at a painting he's working on. Finally, impeccable three dimensional lighting that you can reach into and touch. This requires the proper amount of main light and a complimentary fill light that supports the tone of the overall image. Truthfully there is the photography of people who pay you to take their picture and there is every other type of Photography. Well a tree on a mountain isn't going to pay you and likely no one will buy the image from you statistically speaking. Likewise, fine art, street, abstract would be similar. I made a very good living with portraiture. After so long my senses have told me there really isn't an absolute need for creativity but more the ingredients I listed above. But what makes one great is the power to conjure up a significant and compelling expression. One that just can't be forgotten. The truth within the beauty and the simple beauty of the truth. That has always been what people would like up to pay for. It's like wisdom vs smart. And perhaps that is why older photographers are more successful. It takes a while to become wise.
>>2686998
lol is this copy pasta or what
>>2686993
I also taught you the phrase "visual literacy".
8^)
>>2687068
Why don't you two get a fucking room and leave the board alone?
I've read the entire thread and I think some of the questions raised in this thread can be answered by this quote from Chuck Close.
"The thing that interests me about photography and why it’s different from all other media, is that it’s the only medium in which there is even the possibility of an accidental masterpiece. You cannot make an accidental masterpiece if you’re a painter or a sculptor. It’s just not going to happen. Something will be wrong.
This is simultaneously photography’s great advantage and its Achilles’ heel: it is the easiest medium in which to be competent. Anybody can be a marginally capable photographer, but it takes a lot of work to learn to become even a competent painter. Now, having said that, I think while photography is the easiest medium in which to be competent, it is probably the hardest one in which to develop an idiosyncratic personal vision. It’s the hardest medium in which to separate yourself from all those other people who are doing reasonably good stuff and to find a personal voice, your own vision, and to make something that is truly, memorably yours and not someone else’s.A recognized signature style of photography is an incredibly difficult thing to achieve.
It always amazes me that just when I think that there’s nothing left to do in photography and that all permutations and possibilities have been exhausted, someone comes along and puts the medium to a new use, and makes it his or her own, yanks it out of this kind of amateur status, and makes it as profound and moving and as formally interesting as any other medium. It’s like pushing something heavy uphill. Photography’s not an easy medium. It is, finally, perhaps the hardest of them all."
>>2686347
this is garbage
>>2686866
I probably didn't explain myself well enough. I recognize that there are objective means of attaining a certain look or feel, and objective ways of judging art, but it is a form of human expression and as such has emotion attached to it and is unavoidably subjective.
>>2686965
A photographer's creativity comes from the way they choose to document the scene, which is largely based on their interpretation of it. And it may not move you greatly, but you must have to feel SOMETHING. If not, I'd like to know why. Not to be shitty, I'm actually interested in hearing more about your interpretation.
>>2689056
I agree.
>>2689234
Thank you for your constructive criticism and your insightful addition to the discussion.
>>2683898
I'm very happy that this thread exists amongst the gearfaggotry
>>2690040
Gearfaggotry is the highest form of art you monkey.
>>2690040
OP here. Th...thanks man. I'm guilty as well though since I just browse the gear thread.
Judging from what I learned here, I suppose that photography is a hard medium to master. Being a master in photography meant being able to have your own style. Having your own style though doesn't equate to being a master already. The photos need to be an art form by itself and have that aesthetic appeal to the majority.
For instance, here's another photo of one of my favorite photographers. She definitely have her own style as most of us can distinguish her photographs if we become familiar with her photos. She became famous for these photos since people find them to have an aesthetic appeal. If I can take a guess, it's probably the emotion that it brings to the viewer.
Anyhow, I am currently looking more into this.
>>2683912
Jelly/10
>>2690059
jelly/10000
>>2683903
you aussie yeah?
if you come NZ, meet up?
19, reporting in from NZ
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>>2691314
Dealio
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>>2691331
wonderful
checked out your website and shit, awesome photos
email - [email protected] - whenever you visit. I'm in Auckland.
ta mate
>>2686038
Some photo clubs participate on contests and it's easy to look up their results. Take this as a criteria to decide whether the club is active and up-to-date.
My local club provides c&c, things that support an image and things that don't. To go there is like collecting rules to improve photography, however, the successful ones betray some secrets of their process, like what they did in pp on a specific image. It's on my own to find that out, compare my photos to theirs or the winning ones of the contests. Observing or assisting photographers sheds light on the whole schmear beside pp and composition, if one tries to get into portraits for example.
>>2686347
>family and friends appraise my photos to be mediocre
It's awkward to state yourself experienced and advanced, since it is relative. Let the viewer decide and even more important track for progress, there's no end.
>>2683923
Lets see your shots.
>Implying you're better than the hasselfag
>>2692006
hahaha I like hasselfag
This thread should be archived.
