Old thread: >>705361
Companion Planting - Raised Beds - Vertical Gardening - Square Foot Gardening - Polyculture - Composting - Mulching - Vermiculture - Espalier - Fungiculture - Aquaponics - Greenhouses - Cold Frames - Hot Boxes - Polytunnels - Forest Gardening - Aquaculture
Resources:
Murray Hallam’s Aquaponics: (sample: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYR9s6chrI0 )
-Aquaponics Secrets DVD
-Aquaponics Made Easy DVD
-DIY Aquaponics DVD (Aquaponics The First 12 Months And Aquaponics DIY DVD)
Backyard Aquaponics
https://kat.cr/backyard-aquaponics-t4385398.html
400+ PDF BOOKS ON GARDENING
https://kat.cr/400-pdf-books-on-gardening-t3324399.html
Youtube channel Growingyourgreens, tons of videos on almost every single gardening subject,
https://www.youtube.com/user/growingyourgreens
Ollas clay pot watering system,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkNxACJ9vPI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvKq5geEM-A
USA Time of Year Planting Guide,
http://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/what-to-plant-now-zl0z0903zalt.aspx
Food preservation,
http://nchfp.uga.edu/
https://kat.cr/complete-book-of-home-preserving-pdf-gooner-t10069401.html
https://kat.cr/canning-and-preserving-all-in-one-for-dummies-2011-mantesh-t5998098.html
http://www.allamerican-chefsdesign.com/admin/FileUploads/Product_49.pdf
Mushrooms, (culinary and psychoactive):
https://kat.cr/usearch/Stamets/
Mother Earth News' Vegetable Garden Planner program, (full version requires yearly subscription $fee)
http://www.motherearthnews.com/garden-planner/vegetable-garden-planner.aspx
Tons of Gardening/Farming PDFs
http://www.fastonline.org/?page_id=35
Aquaponics
http://www.fastonline.org/?page_id=32
US Farm Income and Taxes,
http://www.hobbyfarms.com/farm-marketing-and-management/farm-income-taxes-14991.aspx
US Grants and Loans for Small Farms,
http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/usda/usdahome?navid=GRANTS_LOANS
http://afsic.nal.usda.gov/farms-and-community/grants-and-loans-farmers
http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/pubs/funding.shtml
Managing Risks on Your Small Farm,
http://agr.wa.gov/Marketing/SmallFarm/managerisk.aspx
Chicken info and forum,
http://www.backyardchickens.com
Rabbit guide
http://www.agriculture.gov.tt/publications/manuals/rabbit-production-a-producer-s-manual.html
A public access seedbank for many types of rare or endangered plants; both edible and ornamental,
http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/index.htm
Organic and heirloom selections:
http://sustainableseedco.com/
http://www.seedsofchange.com/
http://www.johnnyseeds.com/
Potato, Sweet Potato, and Tubers seed bank (free, but requies filling out forms and waiting in line):
http://www.cipotato.org/
Awesome interactive plant/gardening maps for USA, Canada, France, UK, BC, (frost dates, temp zones, etc):
http://www.plantmaps.com/index.php
Sprout seeds and info:
sproutpeople.org
Insect Habitats for attracting polinating bees, predatory/parasitic wasps, hibernating ladybugs, butterflies, etc.
http://www.inspirationgreen.com/insect-habitats.html
Toad and Hedgehog Habitats,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JetkWtw7Jc
http://familycrafts.about.com/od/frogcrafts/a/How_To_Make_A_Toad_Village.htm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/breathingplaces/hedgehog_home/
http://www.britishhedgehogs.org.uk/leaflets/L5-Hedgehog-Homes.pdf
Chili Peppers
http://www.fatalii.net/
More on Aquaponics & Aquaculture,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=26xpMCXP9bw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=_WgfaJjvfxA
http://www.appropedia.org/Aquaponics
Sourcing plants from the grocery,
http://www.diyncrafts.com/4732/repurpose/25-foods-can-re-grow-kitchen-scraps
Explain to me why gardening is so meditative.
How much of our supermarket food is actually still fertile? I know Monsanto seed grow only once, any fruit grown from it will not germinate. But is that all industrial fruit and veggies, or just part? Is all industrial seed infertile? Do I have to go to a farmer's market to find seeds that will keep growing for generations to come? Or are farmer's markets just the same industrial production?
Lel
>>714261
>Or are farmer's markets just the same industrial production?
We're not even close to this nightmare. The food might have pesticides and it might be anemic from overfertilized monocropping, but local farmers still grow real food.
>>714261
>How much of our supermarket food is actually still fertile?
Most of it. Only the obvious stuff that is damaged is sterile. They really don't waste time on irradiation and other sterile practices. The most you have is the spray used on potatoes to inhibit their growth while they are in the store. You can still use those potatoes as seed potatoes.
The infertile genetic seeds you are referring to are not food products you get whole in the supermarket. Those are for industry things like processed foods, bio-fuels, and livestock feed.
The only time you find infertile GM seeds at a farmer's market is when it ends up accidentally crossing with their crops from a wind blown source.
The source of most vegetables in an average supermarket won't be GM, instead it will be a hybrid. Seeds you use from them usually don't give you the same quality of fruit as the one you ate to get the seed. Cloning stuff from cuttings/bulbs/tuber, like ginger root, potatoes, or garlic, will always stay true to the original plant it came from.
>>714215
Most things that are repetitive can be meditative, given the proper mindset. Things that are drastically different from the rest of your life coupled with parental instincts, quite surroundings, and nearly always "new" can be quite meditative. Humans have been doing agriculture for so long that I would wager there are some genetic elements to it. Peoples who farmed for generations and did it well were ones who survived and did better at it. Over time, it would be imprinted on the personality to a degree. So, when we farm and garden now, we are more apt to enjoy it and find it meditative.
Of course, most of our lives do not depend on the success of our farm and garden. Thus, the stresses of a bad season do not weigh heavy over our heads.
I'm having trouble finding burlap sacks. What are some equally good materials to make sacks for potatoes to grow in?
Also, will my yarrow grow up and flower this year? Pic related. I know yarrow keeps certain pests away and also attracts pest predators. Do they have to be big and flowery for that? I'm new to gardening.
I grew them much denser than the pic. I dumped the whole 250mg package in 6 seedling pots. There's probably about 50 sprouts in each pot. At what stage do I thin them and how do I decide? Just cut the shortest ones? Sorry for no pic, I don't have a use for a camera in rural mexico so I don't have a camera phone.
>>714311
>What are some equally good materials to make sacks for potatoes to grow in?
Wire cages lined with straw. I suggest you use the heavy gauge 2 inch x 4 inch holes welded wire fencing. It is more expensive but lasts 20+ years. Don't use chicken wire. It rusts out in 2 years or less normally. Hardware cloth lasts longer than chicken wire, but gets really mucked up and cluttered. With the welded wire the plants can grow through it at any place with out the need for cutting or anything. It is also structurally sound enough to make cylinders less than 3 feet tall and 2 feet wide or 4 feet tall and 18 inches wide.
>Also, will my yarrow grow up and flower this year?
Yes.
>Do they have to be big and flowery for that? I'm new to gardening.
Yes. To do it properly, you need a large area planted either some distance away (trap plant) from the target plants or as a boarder between the target plants and the rest of the world.
>At what stage do I thin them and how do I decide?
Now and choose the ones with the thickest stems and broadest leaves. "Thinning" normally means cutting them off and killing them. Normally, you can't dig them up and transplant them as it can really damage their roots a great deal. You'd end up with a plant that gets set behind in growth about 2-4 weeks, when you could have just planted more seeds further apart. You can try dividing the clumps up into sections, replanting the entire section then thinning out each section. That sometimes can prevent damage to the majority of the plants you want to save and give you more total plants.
>>714330
Thanks for the reply. As for thinning, how many per pot should I thin it to?
>>714336
It depends on the size of the pot and the type of plant. Envision the plant as it would be when fully grown. The outer leaves should just barely touch the plant next to it; enough to create shade below them. If your plants are massive bushy plants, you only put 1 per pot. If they are small and run up a pole you can have a couple per pot if the pot isn't too small.
For starter pots/blister packs like those in the >>714330 image, you can only have 1 per pot. Then they get moved into larger permanent pots/open ground later on when they start to become root-bound in the smaller pot.
>>714341
Thanks, senpai.
IT'S HAPPENING.
>>714413
Oh god
OK, now I have to do it and plant out my 3rd gen tomato clone from last year (for those of you who don't know: rooted a sucker in September which grew into a respectable plant by October, then got knocked over by wind breaking the stem, tried to root the head but it didn't work, yet the head shot a sucker which I got to root by early January) into the garden because it's becoming way too big now
Will it survive or will it be kill? Nighttime lows are now between 1-3°C and daytime highs between 10-14°C, if we're lucky, no more frosts will occur (and even if not, lower ones than -2 are extremely unlikely at this point)
One thing I learned though from the experiment - over wintering a tomato is definitely not worth the hassle at my latitude (50°N) - but then again with a bit of luck I might get some raer April/May tomatoes as the plant is already flowering
>>714413
What is the reasoning behind the straws?
>>714458
Also pic related are my experimental early San Marzano tomato seedlings from December which are also getting huge as fuck now - gotta test with one of them whether they can survive the current outdoor conditions
>>714458
Tomatoes must winter inside! Even during mild winters like this one, it's just too cold for them outside. Keep them in pots so you can move them.
>>714464
Eh where I live it's usually better weather right now but definitely already spring either way, it's been a very cold March so far, but the coldness doesn't express itself by extremely low peak temps, but just lack of high ones, it hasn't dropped below -2.5°C anytime since Jan 22.
Already planted out 1 of the many thyme plants (that I've been pre-growing inside since October) test-wise in late February, and it has developed really well (leaves assumed a nice very dark green after a few days thanks to UV exposure, growth is slow though due to low temps but I want it to become bushy anyway), so 2 weeks later I went ahead and planted out 9 more (between where my strawberries will go later), all are well and alive as of now
Test-planting 2 of my early tomatoes isn't a big loss to me, as I have plenty of smaller backup seedlings sprouted in February that can spend more time inside, it's just that I have no space and not enough pots to grow the December seedlings for much longer inside
>>714413
What are they?
>>714413
>>714481
Following the ongoing meme from last November(?) here, it has to be some species from the Cucurbitaceae family, right?
Speaking of which, my watermelon seedling from November has been very slow-going throughout winter, only in the last ca. 2 weeks has it been picking up speed
>>714496
Wut? Are you really talking about nighttime lows?
If that were the case they would be non-cultivable here, as average low for July is barely 14°C (high 26°C), with many nights dropping to or below 10°C, but I can easily harvest into late October, when daytime temps are around 10°C and nights barely above freezing, and with the first serious frost they usually die
>>714497
>What is that in the cage?
Thymus vulgaris
made the cage so neither I nor the dogs accidentally step on it as it's a tiny plant at this point, barely 10cm in height and breadth
>>714496
Tomatoes be fine when they're small if it's 45 at night as long as daytime temps are at least 70 consistently as you have well draining soil. I'm in 7b and I'm putting mine out this week. I've never had a problem.
Okay, I have tomatoes, rosemary cuttings and soon-to-be basil cutting. I understand these guys synergize. How to I make them synergize? How far apart or close together should they be?
>>714650
I only knew of them synergizing in my cooking pot. This is relevant information. Sauce?
>>714650
The only thing I heard about that was that basil tends to repel tomatoes' parasites. I don't really know if that's true or not. I just plant them at the bottom of tomatoes.
Im always having trouble rooting plants any tips? Stuff like basil and mint is what i want to root.
>>714664
I only grow mint with cutting, and it's kind of no trouble at all. I cut a branch, put it in earth, and voilà
I find basil to have quite fragile roots, being very cautious to not break them helps much.
Maybe try to water earth before and after transplanting? (to avoid any big gap in soil around roots)
How much land would be required to live comfortably with a qt wife and maybe a kid or two?
>>714728
Profit or non-profit? Which hemisphere are you in?
>>714735
non-profit, Australia just can't stand the way society is going.
Help me, /out/, you're my only hope! I don't know what's wrong with my sunflower's leaves.
I have a yellow empress sunflower. This is my first time planting one so I was stoked when it's finally developing flower buds. It's on sunny place by the window grill and it only gets bottom-watered when the top soil area is dry. I found some of the bottom and middle leaves with dry, brown, and thinned areas. It's like something scraped the top of the leaves in various places.
In the picture from the top left are two middle leaves. The top right and bottom left are close-ups of the two. The bottom right picture is from another leaf at the lowest part.
Any idea what I can do to save my sunflower plant?
>>714773
Looks like an infection. And one that has really taken hold.
I want to make a hanging garden out of a shoe rack. Pic related. Is there any problems with using plastic bottles as pots? I can't find long pots that would fit in the pockets.
>>714739
Australia is a terrible place
#noguns
>>714798
Make sure they can drain
>>714808
Nah mate if I'm going to be having a farm I'll get guns wew lad
>>714811
Isn't a layer of small rocks in the bottom enough? My mother always did that, or used shards from broken pots.
>>714657
http://companionplanting.blogspot.com/2011/05/green-finger-tips-tomato-basil-rosemary.html
Still don't know how to position them though. There should be an optimal distance to keep them uncluttered by synergizing.
>>714664
Put them in dirt. Basil and mint root hella quick when its in dirt, unlike rosemary which can take weeks. Just put them in the dirt and water and it will be rooted before you know it.
>>714824
Will it be exposed outside? If they fill up with water your plants will drown
>>714774
Not him but is he fucked? How do you treat a plant infection?
>>714845
They will be exposed to heavy sunlight through my window. I'll of course be careful with the watering.
>>714850
If It's not exposed to rain you'll be fine
>>714850
You still want to have drainage, else the salinity will build up over time, especially with tap water
>>714773
Reminds me of leaf hopper damage. Check the underside of the leaves for their larva, adults, and for a small damaged place right in the center of the leaf on the spine. I had the same patterns all over my Jerusalem Artichokes The instant I'd see it, I'd flip the leaf over and crush the insects on the under side. Half the time I'd look like your photos and the other half would cause the entire half-tip of the leaf to die after the damaged section in the center under the leaf.
>>714846
You give the plant the best environment you can and hope it can make it through. If you have more than one plant, but no others are infected, just destroy the infected plant before it spreads the problem. If insects are the problem then destroy the insects instead.
>>714499
>Thymus vulgaris
Neat, I have Thymus serpyllum, but I use it around the stone foot paths and rarely as an herb (even less so now that there are more cats in the area that love marking their territory there.)
>Wut? Are you really talking about nighttime lows?
I'm talking any time. There are more cold tolerant varieties of course (Northern Nibbler, Severtsnaya Koroleva/Northern Queen, Beaverlodge Slicer, Alaska, etc). That's just a common rule.
>>714560
>Tomatoes be fine
Not true. Most common varieties get stunted or simply at such low temps. Also, just because your thermometer reads 45F doesn't mean it is 45F at the ground where the small tomato plant is growing. The ground will give off the days heat and keep the plant warmer.
>>714728
That depends on your eating habits and farming methods. The answer can be 3 acres to 50 acres.
>>714861
Stone in the bottom of the container help prevent that for the short duration between repotting or vegetable plant life time. The excess water ends up in the bottom, away from the roots.
This of course shouldn't be done for plants you never repot that live longer than a single season.
From old thread:
>>708757
>Experienced psilo grower here if you have questions.
and
>>713450
>I figure I can grow some shrooms in a QT size mason jar using cardboard as the colony and the substrate. I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing just vague ideas gathered from playing with the idea of growing shrooms over a couple years.
and
>>714525
>Cardboard isn't going to have enough nutrients in it, and alone wouldn't hold enough moisture.
For the culinary Pearl Oyster mushrooms (Pleurotus ostreatus), cardboard is actually an amazing growing medium. Coffee grounds and saw dust are also amazing for it. Pearl Oyster is basically the best shelf fungi you can have for disposing of paper (cellulose-based) waste. When it is done with the paper, you can chuck it into your garden.
This is something that isn't normally done/known by people growing psilocybin strains of fungi.
Just fyi.
>>714875
Thanks. I missed that reply and also TIL.
>>714863
Mainly planted those thymes there because it's supposed to be good around strawberries, we'll see how that goes (have some more seedlings left). I cook a lot with such stuff though (also oregano, basil, rosemary, laurel etc) but usually dried ones from the store so now I want to try fresh ones and dry my own excess for winter
Well fug today it was 14°C high and 2°C low (sun all day so the ground heats up a little) but I still planted 2 of the tomatoes (the giant clone as well as the biggest of my too early San Marzano seedlings) in the garden, I have just no more possibility to cultivate those indoors any longer, so let's see how long they'll hold out (usually they're planted out mid-April here, when avg highs/lows are 16/6 but it works that way and I doubt it's extremely cold-tolerant cultivars)
Will have updates from time to time here
And again even if it fails I have enough smaller backup ones started later
My car is now covered in yellow plant sperm. It is now officially spring in NC.
>>714958
Just talked to gramps. He's been growing tomatoes for 40 years. Said it's too early to put them outside. May is the time. It's just too cold now, even without freezing. But even in May they only really carry and develop aroma in the greenhouse. They need months of 20-30°C days and 15°C nights.
>>714967
Hmm well maybe you have indeed more heat-requiring cultivars
Pic related is from last year mid-July when the first ones got ripe
And those were the avg high/mean/avg low temps according to my logger
April 18.1/11.4/5.4
May 21.4/15.1/9.6
June 24.6/18.4/12.8
July 29.5/22.7/16.9
Overall pretty average, just July was warmer than usual
>>714958
Bottles like other anon mentioned, maybe make a small polytunnel to help trap heat and protect them from any late season frosts.
>>715012
That should work.
Also: bug hotel
>>714863
Aw man. I think I saw one of those tiny guys hanging around when I was doing a weekly check up on my sunflower a week ago. It was light brown and was the size of a lavender seed. They flew away quickly when I shooed them so I wasn't able to get an id on them.
So that's what happened to the leaves? Their sweet juicy insides got sucked out, and got stippled/wilted from the damage?
No visible insects seen, but I got rid of the tiny white eggs I found under some of the leaves today that weren't there yesterday with a toothpick. I'm still baffled how they found my plant when it's on the second floor.
Would using insecticide stop them from treating my sunflower as an all-you-can-all buffet? What should I do with the leaves? Cut them off and dispose of them properly or should I leave them be?
Speaking of damage, any idea what's up with the plant's base? I covered up the top part of the soil with shredded paper and dried used up tea leaves. Do you think it looks weird? I don't know why it looks like it has a split there along with what seems to be stretch marks.
>>715040
That's good news!
Bugs you can do something about.
Removing the eggs was the first step. But you missed some, and some will have dropped on the soil. Also the plant will remain attractive to the bugs and they will probably come back.
You just need to alter the plant as an environment enough for it to be unattractive. You could just spray it with lemon juice. But the sunflower might suffer from acids as well. Depending on the bugs you have there is certainly wisdom to draw on. Without identification I'd try some home cures. You will need a spray pump. Brew a strong nettle tea and spray the plant with it (cooled!) twice daily. If that doesn't work try a weak solution of dish soap, you're not eating the sunflower leaves and most plants are fine with a little soap.
Also change the soil conditions. Keep it more dry and in better light. Sunflowers don't need wet soil on top and bugs love it. Remove any standing water from around the plant like frequent spills, bird bath, or an open drain.
For general plant health there are soil microbe cultures you can buy and innoculate your soil with. Most people overdo the fertilizer. With compost that's nearly impossible and you only have to watch acidity. But with petrochemicals you can turn your soil into a mess of mosses and algae, which weakens your plants.
>>715061
Sweet. I'm happy my sunflower can survive for another day. Thank you so much. I never would've found out the culprit without your help. There's only so many ways you can google stuff up without getting anything if you don't know the specific terms, like stippling on leaves.
I'll do as you say. I'll remove the mulch. I don't know where I could get nettle leaves since it's unusual in my country, but will a triple whammy of ginger, garlic, with the dish soap work well as a spray substitute?
Whoa. Soil microbes? How does that work in helping the plant?
>>715143
>Soil microbes?
http://www.fungi.com/product-detail/product/mycogrow-soluble-1-lb.html
>>715156
Hmm okay. I'll read up on those listed stuff then.
>>715040
For this plant you pictured, it's hard for me to tell anything. The bottom seems a little altered, is that so? (the bottom of the stem seems to be quite rotten)
Are these white spots something I should be worried about?
>>715388
Could you take a better picture? With this definition it could be anything, maybe leaf miner?
>>715388
No, not at all. Those are normal for that type of plant. So long as they are only colorations and not leaf miner areas.
>>714268
Are you an organic farmer? Mind if i pick your brain in this thread?
>>714863
I planted seeds in newspaper cups on sunday. All my cucumbers have germinated, but my tomatoes and watermelon haven't budged. I put it in the back of the house, but moved it to the front when I realized it was too chilly in the back even with the mini-greenhouse cover thing for my seedling tray. This is my first time from seed. I purchased all seeds except my tomatoes which are cherokee purples that I saved using the fermentation method in the cup with water, etc. I planted two tomato seeds each to ensure germination, but nothing. How long should I wait before planting another seed?
My last frost date is May 10.
>>715763
>How long should I wait before planting another seed?
Succession planting is normally done 2 weeks apart on average. Thus, every 2 weeks, you plant new seeds of the same type of plants you previously planted. If you are starting seeds only indoors then you'll have no worries. If you are starting them outside, you'll still need to worry about frost. However, planting in succession outside will get its timing messed up due to the colder weather. The seeds will remain dormant until soil temperatures warm up.
For indoor seed starting, I would time succession planting 2 weeks after the first set of seeds pop up. Keep in mind that this time limit can be extended or shortened depending directly on the type of plants you are planting as well as the variety of plants. For instance, you may have several varieties of tomato plants. Some that are cold hardy and some not. You plant the cold hardy ones when the weather will be cold. You also judge time-to-maturity for each variety and stagger the succession planting so those times-to-maturity fall far enough apart to make a difference.
Harvest times for succession planting help spread out workloads. Instead of spending 2 weeks canning bushels of tomatoes while you other crops rot on the vine because you can't process fast enough you'll have the work load spread out over a month or more. Then you'll be able to harvest and process your crops without worry of imminent loss because you are overworked.
Succession planting also enhances prevention of disease spread (you won't have all your eggs in one basket) and increases bio-availability for beneficial insects.
>>715781
While I appreciate the input, my question was about how long I should wait before abandoning the current seed and try planting another with hopes of success?
>>714460
so that they can scuba if op pours too much water
>>715460
Not him, but I am.
Been doing this full time for 4 years, I mostly work on CSA shares, farmer markets and a stand on the farm.
Ask away, but I don't check the thread that often these days, busy with all the seedlings, season planification, and trying to get 25% more CSA subscriptions for the season.
>>715763
Consider using a radiator top for germination, this way it has a constant 30°C and things like tomatoes, peppers, melons etc should sprout in a few days
Use a plastic bag or lid though just until it sprouts, else it'll get too dry quickly
>>715793
2-4 weeks They can be stubborn.
>>715939
You have one seed per pot? Normally I just plant lots of seeds (either in a grid single or just sprinkled if they're tiny) into some flat pot/bowl, tupperware box or something like that, cover/not cover with extra soil (depending on type), let them sprout and grow a little, and only then replant as many as I want to single pots
Pic are parsleys just before replanting them more spaced
>>715947
Same for me, only I just snip the ones I don't want. Separating them is just too fiddly.
>>715987
Yeah I also noticed some species really hate being transplanted at that stage no matter how careful I am, while others can be treated rough as fuck. Tomatoes don't mind at all, but oregano seedlings are little sissies
If someone remembers, I had planted out a Laurus nobilis (true laurel) in the garden last summer, not knowing about its frost sensitivity (shouldn't go out where I live in zone 8a, apparently it needs 9a or warmer)
It did grow some nice new shoots in the rest of summer, but was briefly exposed to -6.8°C/19.8°F during a short cold spell earlier this winter, soil never froze deeper than maybe 2cm at any time though
Now it's getting warmer again here but the plant isn't showing any new growth so far, and some of the leaves are getting brown from the inside (see pic), so has it frozen to death? How long should I give the plant before removing it (if it's ded then I wanna plant something else in that spot)? Wouldn't be too much of a big loss, it cost me €10 and I harvested shitloads of leaves already for use in the kitchen during the growing period (some fresh, some I dried and still have leftovers), but if there's a way to save it I'm glad to hear. Should I maybe prune it back a little to encourage new growth?
>>714268
>>716057
Kek, every Western nation, even region had >= 100% farming sustainability before global trade, so let's say just 200 years ago
In years it didn't (like 1816), starvation as well as mass emigration to Murrica took place
>>716057
Is this a joke about the Potato Famine?
>>716057
>>716062
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution
>>716059
And what else were they doing apart from farming, pray tell?
>>716074
Of course there were also some secondary and tertiary jobs especially in the cities but overall >90% of the population were farmers
>>716077
Bingo.
>>716088
I took exception to the implication of modern agriculture not producing "real food." IE: a false dichotomy between local farmers and industrial farmers. (an implication of differing quality between the two) The potato famine response was a tongue-in-cheek lampshading of the enormous benefits of modern agriculture. The green revolution refutes the cherry picking accusation.
>>715819
thanks. any info in much appreciated. I have been reading up on farming for the past few months and am seriously considering making a plunge to start one, possibly full time.
>how large is your farm?
>veggies only or other stuff too?
>if you dont mind, what kinda numbers do you have?
>csa/what ya charge on it a season or split season and how many weeks?
>gross/net per year?
>how many employees?
i see you mentioned you do markets, csa, and stand. do you do any restraunt stuff as well?
i dont wanna overload you.. fee free to add anything related if you like :D
>>714959
Fellow NCfag here, may I ask what you are growing or will be growing?
>>716094
The potato famine with the English screwing over potato niggers
>>716094
>potato famine...enormous benefits of modern agriculture
Modern farming practices are just like the potato famine. Monocrops are what get people into serious trouble when there is a problem. Modern farming is synonymous with industrialized monocrop farming. Essentially, modern agriculture is more synonymous with the potato famine than ever before. The latter was enforced upon the public just as much as the former. Footnote: The green revolution was kicked into high gear due to the mustard gas guy's (Fritz Haber) research, which gave way to ammonia-based, high nitrogen fertilizer and the modern farming age.
>IE: a false dichotomy between local farmers and industrial farmers. (an implication of differing quality between the two)
Quality is hindered in industrialized farms due to their aggregated structure. Goods they produce get shipped 100s, sometimes 1000s of miles away; with sometimes weeks worth of travel and shelf time. Due to the short shelf life of most fresh produce, it will be picked at times when they are not fully ripe to help retard decomposition until a consumer purchases them. They are also subjected to a host of pesticides/fungicides for the trip and for longer shelf life.
Obversely, locally farmed vegetables normally do not need to travel very far to point of sale nor are required to have a long shelf life. They tend to go from soil to mouth in under a week. This short amount of time means producers and sellers don't need to take as harsh a stance on decomposition as industrial-based purveyors do. The produce can also be picked fully ripe.
As a result of the dichotomy between the two forms of modus operandi, from point-of-growth to point-of-sale, the quality of either becomes quiet apparent. Hence, the wide spread notion that local is better than industrial.
>>716150
>Monocrops are what get people into serious trouble when there is a problem.
Agriculture, at its most fundamental level, is about monocropping. "This plant is useful, I'll grow it. This one is not useful, it is a weed."
>Goods they produce get shipped 100s, sometimes 1000s of miles away
Because we all know that soil quality, differing climates, access to water, land values and the year-long availability of assorted cultivars do not apply to the market for produce.
>>716201
>Agriculture, at its most fundamental level, is about monocropping. "This plant is useful, I'll grow it. This one is not useful, it is a weed."
Monocrop means 1 variety of plant for the entire farm. Like endless fields of wheat or corn.
>Because we all know that soil quality, differing climates, access to water, land values and the year-long availability of assorted cultivars do not apply to the market for produce.
That isn't an debate point, you're moving goalposts and cherry picking things out of context.
>>716226
Stop being so easily trolled. No honest person actually holding opinions like >poster comes into these threads.
r/h/i
>>716226
>Monocrop means 1 variety of plant for the entire farm. Like endless fields of wheat or corn.
Monocropping: the agricultural practice of growing a single crop year after year on the same land, in the absence of rotation through other crops.
Touché on this one, there was more nuance to the definition than I was aware of. I was using the term to mean one crop at a time on a given unit of land during a season. (crop rotation, anyone?)
>That isn't an debate point, you're moving goalposts and cherry picking things out of context.
It is a debate point because you brought up distance traveled by produce from farm to table, striking an inverse correlation between distance and quality. The points covered established why the product is moved over such distances, but conceded no difference in quality. I will make more effort in establishing premises henceforth.
What kind of soil should I use to fill two 4x4x1 raised beds?
The instructions said to use equal parts vermiculite, peat moss, and blended compost. This sounds like A) a big PITA, and B) like I could probably just use bagged topsoil from HomeDepot thinned with peat moss as needed.
Is taking the time to make the mix worth it? Will the topsoil be nutrient rich enough?
>>716317
if you get one of those power drill cement mixers. and a 5 gallon bucket. all that junks real easy to mix to be honest. that or a ground tarp. and just diaper it together.
>>716319
>23 five gallon buckets per raised bed
wew.
Tarp sounds solid. I was just going to shovel it around in a wheel barrow, but that is a good idea.
>>716321
>shovel it around in a wheel barrow
Just takes a bit longer.
>>716105
>how large is your farm?
My whole land is 12 arpents, but the area I actually use for my vegetables is 0,4 ha. I guess you're probably from the USA, so that would be 10 acres for the land and 1 acre cultivated.
>veggies only or other stuff too?
Veggies only for the moment, 40 of them. I considered planting some raspberries or currants (I got some wild currant bushes growing around) to put some diversity in my weekly baskets, but really, fuck berries, way too much work to harvest. I'm probably going to sell eggs this summer and chicken this fall, but it's EXTREMELY complicated where I live [spoiler]based Canada [spoiler]the french part of it[/spoiler][/spoiler].
>csa/what ya charge on it a season or split season and how many weeks?
I do 18 weeks, end of June to end of October. I offer two sizes, 25$ a week and 35$ a week, 60 CSA shares. People can also choose to get it 1/2 weeks.
>gross/net per year?
Gross was a little over 30 000 glorious canadian dollars last year, gonna be higher than that this season. I'm pushing the profit margin close to 70%. Keep in mind that my wife currently has an off-farm job that has a gross of almost twice as much, so we're doing ok. Also the profit margin is high as hell because I grow intensive and without machinery (except a BCS tiller with some attachments and my Grand Caravan for hauling shit around), just hand tools
>>716434
>how many employees?
None, I work all alone, literally from sunrise to sunset. As you can guess, it keeps a man occupied. I expect to recruit my wife for the farm in a season or two because I'm about to reach the limit of what I can do alone and she's interested. I got the CSA stuff, farm stand on saturdays and farmer market on sundays. Could probably push it to 100 shares with her. I don't want employees.
>i see you mentioned you do markets, csa, and stand. do you do any restraunt stuff as well?
Not yet, most likely I never will. I just don't have time for that really. I grow microgreens and they are starting to get popular (people love it at the market and it sells for a pretty amount), thought I might grow them in the winter and sell it to restaurants, but you need the contacts and everything and, well truth be told it wouldn't give me that much revenues and I like to just get comfy and play video games all winter [spoiler]all winter i mean i stop working outside in early december and and start working full time inside for the planification, marketing, recruiting and seedlings in early february[/spoiler].
Also, I boldly lied to you, I'm not certified organic yet. I grow everything as if I were, but I just don't have the time for the 15000 hours of paper work it adds. Also 1500$ a year just for the registration is still a large part of the profit. My clients and partners don't care, they know how I grow and they can visit the farm whenever they want. I guess I'd get the certification if I wanted to sell in groceries and restaurants where having the label is a big plus.
As you can see, you don't do that for the money and you don't count the hours, but the quality of life is god tier.
If you got any other questions, go ahead man.
>>715947
My "pots" are like 2"x2"x3" and made of folded newspaper, so more like seedling starters. I put 2 seeds in each tomato pot, but yes one seed each for the rest. So fat my cucumbers are doing the best, I saw 3 tomatoes popped through the soil yesterday. I'm away until Sunday so hopefully my watermelons will germ by then. I imagine they take longer since they're planted closer to 3/4" like the packet said. Everything else was planted about 1/4"
This is my first time growing from seed, and first time using saved seeds.
>>716060
Yes
>>716088
It's really a reference to how Malthusian economic theory was proven. The Irish potato famine was caused by an increasing population without increased production. This was heavily influenced by the relationship between the Irish farmers and they're wealthy British landlords who provided no motivation for them to increase output and in fact encouraged the opposite through their policies. This proved that without advances in technology that increases output, positive checks (population adjustments) will happen with population rises, especially in an agricultural based economy.
>>716226
Just so you're aware, about 90% of farms in the US now use crop rotations, usually corn/beans/wheat. Many are using low till and no till systems because they're finally getting the machinery to grow like that on a large scale.
The second point is sarcasm, but it does bring up some points. I would say there IS an inverse relationship between quality and "distance traveled" (aka how early it was harvested). What I love about local produce is that it is vine/field ripened and tastes much better.
>>716434
>arpents
You guys still use that unit in Quebec?
Recently dug up some slabs in my garden, uncovering some pretty rocky dirt. Dug it all up removed as many rocks as I could, as well as an alarming amount of clothes (even a child's shoe). Then I raked in some horse manure and topping soil.
Really wasn't sure anything would grow, but look at those little radish sprouts!!! I'm not entirely incompetent!
>>716505
>an alarming amount of clothes (even a child's shoe)
>>716274
>The points covered established why the product is moved over such distances, but conceded no difference in quality.
It isn't a debate point because it was a fact being presented, not opinion. For which the point you posted have nothing to do with distance traveled.
>>716452
>about 90% of farms in the US...
Precisely, between 84% and 92%. The problem is that they are, "corn, soybean, wheat". The rotation is too short a cycle and 2 of the crops share some diseases. These stats are strictly for, "corn, soybean, wheat". Tillage has been reduced merely due to pesticides like round-up, not because of the machinery.
>>716434
>>716435
Thanks for the responses.
This is exactly the style of farming I have interest in. I just finished 'The Urban Farmer' by Curtis Stone (Canadian city small intensive farmer - lotta youtube vids, multi plot inside city limits), and am currently working on Jean-Martin Fortier's 'The Market Gardener' (no idea what the French name of the book is, but its also written in French.
Im in the south east usa, zone 7.
so a few more questions to anyone really, ill take all and any info...
One of you said your 4 years in, with 30k gross.
>do you see that as still building up and decent growth in revenue from year to year or is it starting to platua?
Assuming you didnt have debt besides a mortgage, even 30k, with 70% profit could be a comfortable life -- and seasonal (which is a bigger plus than some may think)
how much did you pay for your BCS? ive been looking casually for the last few month and I cant find anything used at all. Brand new starts at $5k usd which is a bummer....
somewhat related, has any ever seen or heard of anyone doing intensive or SPIN farming on terraces?
I have been looking at 5 acre pasture that has a 6-10% slope as a possible location.
Biggest downside, assuming terracing is done, is that it is North facing.
>how big of a deal is it to have something south facing?
I'm looking for an in-depth computer program that can help me plan out a large scale, long term gardening operation. Does anyone know of such a resource? I need something that's really indepth, that will allow me to easily cross reference water requirements, companion planting, and things of that nature.
I already have the book resources to do most of it by hand, but would rather not because I'm a lazy fuck with terrible hand writing. Anyone know what I mean, or does everyone just go out and start randomly digging up their yard in the spring?
>>714798
i've used clear bottles before. if they're getting direct sunlight they can grow visible algae on the inside.
>>716586
I've seen the same thing happen with white 5-gallon, HDPE buckets. You need to paint plastic black or use black plastic to prevent it. Painting plastic is a pain, especially HDPE. Soda bottle plastic when sandpapered first is really good for painting though.
>>714202
I'm tryna build a raised bed. Is pic related okay to use as the base (where the soil would rest)?
I've heard rumors that the green treatment contains arsenic, but that treatment has recently been banned. Is there anything that would make me not want to use this wood to grow veggies to eat?
>>716579
Mother Earth News has one online that is really good. Best that I know of. But, it costs money for the full version as a subscription ($29/year). They do have a free version you can use for free for 7 days and a free one you don't need to use an account for, but can not save your settings and such. You'll need to get an account to get all the features and be able to save settings and such from year to year.
http://www.motherearthnews.com/garden-planner/vegetable-garden-planner.aspx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzT2TV3AUs8
And, if there's a feature missing, you can contact them and request it be added.
They also have a newsletter for your location and will send emails to you to remind you when and what to plant (see pic of email I got today). I haven't purchased it yet, but I'm considering it, though I'm not into subscription-based program purchases. I think organizing a bit better may get me out of the funk I'm in. I hate cold weather we have right now and I'm not as motivated to do anything outside. Then when it is nice and warm, I am already behind for the season.
>>716606
>Teco
>Exposure 1
This is what their PDF has to say about that:
http://www.tecotested.com/techtips/pdf/tt_exposureratings
It is a PDF file and when saved doesn't retain the PDF file extension for some reason; just added it before opening. Here's the text as well as a screen of it:
======
Exposure durability classifications are assigned on the basis of raw material composition and
adhesive bond durability. Panels are typically produced to one of two classifications: Exterior or
Exposure 1.
Exterior panels are designed for applications subject to permanent exposure to weather or moisture.
They are fully waterproof. Exposure 1 panels are suitable for uses that are not permanently exposed
to the weather, but where panels must resist effects of moisture due to construction delays, high
humidity, or other conditions of similar severity. Exposure 1 panels have a fully waterproof bond and
are made with the same exterior adhesives used in Exterior-rated panels. However, building products
distributors and builders are cautioned to store panels on skids off the ground and to tarp the unit
when there is potential of heavy rain or snow.
In the case of plywood, Exterior-rated panels are manufactured with C-C and better grade veneers,
while Exposure 1 panels are classed as "Interior with exterior glue" panels because they can be
constructed with veneer of D grade and better.
======
Since it seems to use glue that itself is waterproofed, there are chances of something leeching from them. However, since they are not for outdoors, it means they are not "treated" with the chemicals you are referring to. They will be far far better than treated lumber. I personally wouldn't use them. I'd use solid untreated lumber if I had to use wood. However, I personally use stone. brick, and block for my raised beds.
Here's a good chart with some explanations:
http://www.snwwood.com/Blog/Wood-Q-A/What-is-the-best-wood-to-use-for-raised-garden-beds
My folks want to plant a small flower bed and wants recommendations. I live in central Alabama in USDA zone 7b. Anyone have any suggestions?
>>716624
wildflowers
>>716624
Ask them to choose their favorite 3 colors. Then see if they want to see butterflies and humming birds. Then do some research into what flowers in those colors attract those animals, if attraction is wanted. Most anything grows in 7b. Arranging the plants is general landscaping and you should lookup flower bed landscaping designed that use the flowers you have selected.
>>716031
RHS lists it as hardy in the range of -10 to -5C.
Since it didn't go tits up then when it froze it'll more than likely pull through,but it does look like some of the leaves are damaged.
Just let it keep doing it's thing. If it did get too damaged you'll know it eventually.
>>716673
Yeah it's weird, the freeze was in mid-January (after that only occasional light night frosts down to -2), but it was fine afterwards and only started getting these brown spots now, 2 months later, for some reason
>>716621
>http://www.snwwood.com/Blog/Wood-Q-A/What-is-the-best-wood-to-use-for-raised-garden-beds
Thanks, gardenbro
>>716502
Just when talking about land area.
>>716534
>and am currently working on Jean-Martin Fortier's 'The Market Gardener'
Literally the best book you can read if you want to start a commercially viable small farm. You can just do exactly as he says without thinking about it too much and you'd have a small farm running in a season. There was an updated edition released last summer but I don't know if it's been translated to english yet. He's pretty well known here, I met him a couple of times and was able to visit his farm too (they don't make visits anymore though). This might interest you : https://www.ulule.com/market-gardener/
>do you see that as still building up and decent growth in revenue from year to year or is it starting to platua?
I think I can get a little more out of it, but I'm really close to hitting the cap. As I said, I work by myself. I could double revenues by having an employee [spoiler]assuming the demand is there and you fill your shares [spoiler]it probably is[/spoiler][/spoiler], but you spend almost twice as much on salary alone, then there's all the paperwork and annoying shit. Also I hate people and like to work alone. So I'm thinking that probably for a person alone, 35-40k [spoiler]canadian looneys[/spoiler] depending on your markets is pretty much top.
>how much did you pay for your BCS? ive been looking casually for the last few month and I cant find anything used at all
Bought it new a couple of years back, the 853 model [spoiler]that's the one you want[/spoiler] with the 30" tiller and rotary plow and it cost me 8000 CAD. I don't think you'll find one second hand, it's a very specific/niche piece of equipment.
>how big of a deal is it to have something south facing?
You said you were in zone 7, probably that it doesn't matter that much with your higher temperatures and all, assuming the site is otherwise well situated and sunny. But I don't know your climate.
>>716700
I forgot you can't spoiler on /out/.
>>716527
So would you say that local food is the fix for the issues in the agricultural industry?
>>716704
Not if everyone used the same practices that industrial agriculture does. Your question is too broad and is open for too much interpretation of rebuttal. Growing everything locally is only the start. Technically, it could be done, but society is not structured in that manner and it will never happen, unfortunately.
y'all silly
>>716579
the Farmer's Almanac has a Vegetable Garden Planner
gardenplanner (dot) almanac (dot) com
>>716735
I was going to ask further questions after that, sorry if it seemed like a trap. I'm wondering if this debate has been primarily semantic in nature the entire time. For instance: define "quality" in the context of produce so that we can be clear.
>>716740
nice weed plant
>>716740
>that sucker
Triggered. Remove now!
Florida growbox guy here. Holy shit. I came home after two days of hard rain to find one of my growboxes completely submerged. I still can't figure out why but the holes had somehow clogged on both sides of this one box.
My bell pepper was waterlogged for probably 8 hours. Is it going to be alright? I drilled two more large holes just above the water-retention line to drain the fucker.
Also, is the packed substrate going to be an issue either?
>>716700
>https://www.ulule.com/market-gardener/
That looks like a pretty promising project. I will def have to get that when it gets released. Ive already watched his talks on youtube (2 different audiences, but the same material)
>Have you read any of Eliot Coleman's stuff?
>Any particular reason you havn't gone for more restaurant revenue?
From what I understand Curtis Stone ('The Urban Farmer), sells around 40% of his product to chefs, though his ease of access may be the best of any farmer since his live among them.
>Anyone else have thoughts on terracing?
looking at possibly getting 5 acres that is on a 6-10% grade north facing. 1-2 of it would be turned into gardens for farming
Is saving my seeds worth it or am I better off buying heirloom seeds?
How long would it take to produce new cultivars if I save seeds and plant them? Too long to be worthwhile for a small home garden?
>>716833
Landraces aren't difficult to develop, but why wouldn't you save your seeds anyway?
http://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/landrace-gardening-survival-zbcz1306.aspx
>>716505
>all that compost from the bodies
This is why soil from body farms is so prized. You should call the cops and have them check your yard with a ground penetrating radar.
>>716531
>not because of the machinery.
As well as machinery like no-till drills. You can't grow no-till with old style planters. I have no problems with round up.
>>716531
Additionally, the person who gets nitrogen fixing bacteria to grow on monocot roots will be the ultimate multi-billionaire.
>>716764
>For instance: define "quality" in the context of produce so that we can be clear.
Consumer enjoyment of the product. Very ambiguous of course. But very apparent when you go to the local grocery store on a day when they bought up all local produce and there's a line waiting to get to that produce and barely anyone going to get the stuff from out of state. There's also a far larger variety in produce from local sources it seems, not that it has anything to do with quality per se. Suffice it to say better quality food is food that tastes better, looks better, smells better, has better texture, and/or has better mouth-feel.
>>716795
They should be fine provided they are drained now.
packed substrate?
>>716845
Can you elaborate?
>>716887
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhizobia
Update on the raspberries.
Obtained all 30 plants, 5 types. Though I can only use 4 since I accidentally purchased a patented one (the catalog didn't say it had a patent on it).
Put the patented ones in my front yard. Going to use them solely for food.
As for the unpatented ones, they're all in close-proximity. Cross-pollination should be easy, both controlled and open. I'll cross them all, and scarify/cold moist refrigerate as many seeds as possible.
>>716962
>Though I can only use 4 since I accidentally purchased a patented one (the catalog didn't say it had a patent on it).
>>716970
Never worked with Amira before. In fact, of all the catalogs I've ever gotten, this is the first time I've seen the cultivar offered. Hence my mistake.
>>716973
It isn't your mistake. It is their mistake for patenting life.
Now time for some bad news/failures which has to be here and there
First my everbearing strawberry seedlings. Not only do they barely grow at all, I forgot watering them just one day, resulting in about a third of them dead. If they really grow in this slow pace (they sprouted in mid-February FFS), I have no hopes to get fruit in July as the seed package claims
At this point I consider giving up and buying pre-grown ones from the hardware store instead
>>716984
The thing I don't like about plant patents is that they have the potential to lock off evolutionary genetic branches. And they're so easy to qualify for.
A simple one generation cross can result in a patenting.
My pepper seeds came in the mail yesterday! I got:
>Alma Paprika
>chinese 5 color
>japaleno
>cherry
>sheepnose pimento
All from a local seed distributor. She gave me some thai pepper and poppy seeds as a gift!
Which meant I had to finish the raised bed today. Hauled ~200lbs of material to fill it.
I lined the base with natural burlap, then put down pea rocks, some clean branches and brown matter, sand then straw. From there, it was soil with peatmoss and sand layered thinly all the way to the top, with compost between a few layers. Dressed the top with bonemeal and all purpose slow-release tomato fertilizer and covered the top with 3 inches of straw.
Seeds go in tomorrow! This is going to be all sweet peppers, my spicy ones will get pots later this week.
I have more burlap on top to dissuade those monsters from digging it up. I think I'll even keep it covered until the plants sprout.
>>717013
(forgot pic)
>>717015
Woops, we're not in australia
>>717016
Next is a fig seedling from October which I've experimentally placed outside now for about a week. Most of the leaves looked sick suddenly a few days ago (see pic), is it due to low temperature or some parasite? I removed all but the youngest, still healthy leaf. Temps are mostly 8-16°C in the day and around 0°C at night
No big worry though as I still have more than enough (about 12) healthy seedlings still inside from the same batch
>>717021
Looks like sun scalding. Too much sunlight too quickly.
>>717016
I so hope my seedlings have that kind of luck.
>>717024
Huh, it stood at a SW facing window before. Could it be because of the window glass blocking most UV and the sudden exposure being bad?
>>717028
Also I shall add I live at 50°N, so the sun isn't very strong here. We had some sunny days lately (Thursday, Friday completely clear skies) but the sun has a peak altitude of only ~40° above horizon during noon right now
>>716803
>Have you read any of Eliot Coleman's stuff?
Of course. The New Organic Grower is a classic, but it's showing its age. I mean, everything inside is good and worth knowing, but it's getting outdated. It's still a very important book as almost anything you'll read draws from it, but there are more recent books that are more worthwile. It's a book you'll read and love, but you won't really go back to it while the season starts. The Winter Harvest is a mendatory read if you want to grow in late fall/winter though.
>Any particular reason you havn't gone for more restaurant revenue?
That's pretty much it, I'd have to go to Montreal (which is like 1,5 hours away) to get a large access to restaurants. The largest city in my area isn't large at all and there aren't that many restaurants. But then again I probably wouldn't reach out to them, it's just not the same as selling to people. Of course if you're a couple of people working on the farm, you'll want to widen your market opportunities so restaurants are interesting.
>Anyone else have thoughts on terracing?
I don't think terraces are such a good idea. I mean, if you already own that slopey land, then terrace it and make it work, of course, lands are expensive. But if you're starting a new farm from scratch, just buy the best land you can find, even if you have to move farther away or make some compromises. Don't buy one that you'll have to spend thousands of dollars just to make it kind of work. Give yourself all the help you can get at the start, you'll need it. Same goes for forested areas, it's tempting to buy one and deforest it to make your gardens, but it costs so much money and you'll get some shitty soil that you'll have to tend to for a year or two before you can grow on it. You don't really see small farms working on terraces that much, you can guess there's probably a reason for that.
>>716861
Yeah, im using a so-called "soilless"mixture of verm/peat moss/compost. The heavy rain and waterlogging completely packed it in. I guess peppers use a lot of water anyways.
This guy is growing his first bell pepper now.
>>717038
I knew about that but for that particular plant didn't care too much desu, as my train of thought was "it's Mediterranean, I'm sure it can handle some spring sun easily"
Will make a more gradual transition for the future ones
>>716057
>potato famine had anything to do with agricultural practices
The potato famine was entirely political in nature and had little to do with growing too many potatoes in one area with backward farming practices.
Essentially, the irish were forced to grow potatos for the english as the english owned the land. It was one of the most profitable crops at the time for time invested and it didn't require much effort on part of the irish themselves who were habitually poor and uneducated. The english would essentially take the all potatos and sell them, and encourage the irish to eat potato leaves and stems which are mildly toxic. When the so called famine hit, it was just the final straw that broke the camel's back. An entire population of people living day to day on poisonous food suddenly had their main source of calories removed, and they unsurprisingly died en masse.
The irish could have been practicing modern permaculture, supplementing with aquaponics all rigged together with solar powered hydro systems and they would have still died of starvation the moment any kind of disasters truck because they were never allowed to keep, eat, or preserve the viable parts of the crops they were growing. They were slaves in their own lands, and their masters couldn't be bothered to take care of them.
Hello fellow homegrowmen,
I have a great vegetable garden here in northern germany, and i will stay in cochabamba, bolivia for a year starting in august. I love and need gardening, but of course the climate over there is different. How and where do i get to know the different plants that grow over there and what they need?
>>716505
We are supposed to remove rocks?
>>717256
Its not necessary, but good for the plakts since every stone removed means more space for roots => better plants => bigger yields
>>717259
Thanks
>>717252
My guess: start watering sand and watch shit grow like crazy all by themselves.
>>717259
Well...
>>717256
It depends. Rocks break your tools and your plants can't put roots in them, so generally they have to go.
But there are special circumstances where you may want to place select rocks in your soil. Say you're high up and want to maximize heat storage into the night, soil doesn't do that well. Place a few boulders among your plants and they will have warm roots long into chilly mountain nights.
Or you might want to offer habitat for animals to fight your pests for you. Amphibians love rocks in the sun and tend to hang out on them a lot. Once they're warmed up they go hunting. And when flowers start getting pollinated you can take the rock away and put it somewhere else.
>>717262
But which plants?
>>717252
Well, quick googling shows it's in pretty mountainous territory and that it's in the high 60s there today.
It's the beginning of their Autumn, so it'll be cooler when you arrive in august.
That's all I got. By august, you can just watch how much/what survives their winter and ask locals how goes the gardening.
>>717112
Most places that give taxes in the form of food prefer grain, as did the English. You can dry it, grind it, and keep it for longer/ship it easier.
The potato was well suited to the shitty dirt they could not grow grain in, and so that was what they ate. White wheat is for the wealthy, rye and other "rougher" foods are for the poor.
These people did not go to seed distributors for good healthy seed potatoes, they just kept on with the plants they had already and did exactly what common agriculture says not to-- constantly grow the same plant species in the same damned spot for years.
It was a perfect storm, you can't lay the blame on a singular entity. Everything had a hand in making a bad situation into a disaster.
>>717252
>cochabamba, bolivia
>vegetables
Oh boy, as many potato and tuber varieties as you can. See if you are able to ship some home with you, preferably as flower seed since they will be hardier for travel. They have some amazing and rare types of potatoes and tubers there. There's also some cool varieties of corn there too, so stock up and seed from anything you can't get in Germany easily.
Other than that, you can grow most anything you want. Check out the lists in this wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_Bolivia
>>717266
It is a trade off, surface stones are also great places for Armadillidiidae, slugs, and, snails to live.
>>717249
>Maybe some psilo mushies too or some kind of other fungus for experience.
gb2 420chan.org
>>717314
Are wood lice a problem?
>>717431
Bruh, shut up already. No one but you cares.
>>717249
Aw shit, please keep me updated on the potatoes, I want to try my hand at some next year.
>>717505
I keep planting peels with an eye on them in my flower pots under what remains of last year's herbs. Not sure if they will compost or grow.
>>717453
Yes. They eat off seedlings and make a mess of tomatoes at night. The lower to the ground the fruit is, the worse the damage.
>>717256
I have too many rocks in my soil to bother except for anything bigger than a fist. My entire yard is ancient river bed, nothing but red clay and rocks. I tilled in a cubic yard of peat moss to help with aeration, since clay DOES have the highest CEC...
>>717457
Keep your brain dead, pothead, drug addict shits off /out/.
>>717654
Hey guys check out my druggie pothead plants
>>717738
You know your just tempting people to bomb this thread with 420 shit, right?
>>717738
Not a pot grower, so I can't speak any experience, but that does look like a nice healthy plant.
Buying my first house. Closes at the end of May in WI. Large back yard with some built in raised beds. Lots of weeds and such that need taken out, I don't know the last time they were used. Anything I should look out for/work on before putting in some soil and trying radishes or carrots or something?
>>717738
Keep this deadhead shit out of Homegrowmen threads, loser.
>>716785
What's a sucker?
>>717738
Retard
I have aphids on one (1) plant. How effective would it be to introduce ladybirds/ladybugs to this potted plant? Should I just use a pesticide? It's a foxglove so I'm not too worried about the pesticide making unsafe to eat because, y'know, foxglove...
>>717431
Gb2 faggot school. Oh right, you graduated already.
>>717902
Anyone who votes for trump
Bazinga
>>716443
Same guy here. All but one cucumber seed which somehow was on top of the soil have sprouted! One watermelon seed hasn't quite got leaves up, but it's germinated and I can see stem.
>>716840
I'll be honest, that was my fear while I was digging - that I was going to dig a little further and uncover a hand.
I suppose if I call the cops and they do find a body, they'll dig the rest of the garden for me. Maybe even rip up some of the old decking and I can stick a greenhouse in.
>>718093
Brilliant!
Hello 911?
>>717947
They couldn't hurt, thats for sure.
As for pesticides, I've had really good luck with permethrin powder. Just dust it on and bugs are gone.
>>717947
Ladybugs are great for keeping aphids in check. But if they're already massing a few ladybugs won't catch up.
Collect all the aphids and eggs you can see. Put down fly paper or upside down duct tape. Wrap some around the plant stems if you can, but be careful not to stick it to the plant. a 1/4 inch wide belt in the right place will catch most of what you missed. After a few days you check for results and repeat if needed. THEN you remove the traps and let loose the ladybugs.
>>718093
>they'll dig the rest of the garden for me
They'll do you one better. They'll dig a massive hole and sift all the soil for you! They likely won't put it back though... But at least the rocks are gone, and you can REALLY build your soil.
>>717738
I'm always tempted to look into pot growing, they are fascinating plants. That smell, though...
>>717902
The small leaf in this image. Eventually, it will grow into a branch of its own that can have tomatoes on it. Some people remove them so the single vine grows up. Others leave them and allow the tomato plant to bush out.
On indeterminate tomato varieties you can remove the suckers all you want. The main vine will continue to grow for several years and reach up to 75 feet long, under ideal conditions.
On determinate tomato varieties you should not remove the suckers because the plant will not continue to grow longer. It will instead develop more suckers. Thus, these varieties tend to be short and bushy. Some minor pruning is done to prevent complications like tomatoes developing between two stems where it will get smooshed as it grows.
You can also use suckers to increase the amount of tomato plants you own. In fact, this cloning method is astounding for increase the amount of plants you have. See, next post.
>>718274
...Continued.
This image shows the general method for cloning tomato plants. This works on both determinate and indeterminate tomato varieties, but the indeterminate varieties' parent plant will do better when you use this method. This is because you are sometimes lowering the crop yield of the determinate parent plant when you use this method.
>>718263
You can grow hemp varieties that look pretty much identical but contain no THC.
>>718289
Even the other ones need a lot of sun to develop alkaloids. Unless you're living in the sun, any strain will not be worth smoking. It will still be illegal.
>>718280
>>718274
(the one who pointed out the sucker)
Well I live in a non-(sub)tropical climate and here you generally do want to remove them so the plant doesn't waste too much energy in growing extra foliage and too many flowers/fruits, else they won't ripen out
Also I did start a cloning experiment like that but because they grow so fast and leggy in winter indoors, I'm already on my 3rd gen clone (of the mother plant I took it from last September) and that too had become huge and leggy by now, forcing me to plant it out early (see >>714458) - and while still alive, doesn't look too healthy as it's been cool here again lately (but not freezing), seedling looks even worse (I also did take suckers again from the current clone, trying to get them to root but they're not doing much, I think I took them too short or after so much short interval successive cloning the vitality is lost?)
>>718342
Here a comparison pic from the struggling San Marzano seedling
>>718349
Looks like sun scalding on some of the leave in the lower pic.
Anyone kind of disturbed by the erratic weather recently? ( Those living on the US eastern seaboard)
>>718378
its just el nino.
>>717947
You could also try common green lacewing, I find it to be a little more effective than ladybug. But as >>718131 said, once it has started, you've got to be quicker.
I don't know if it's possible on a foxglove giving its shape, but you could try to spray soapy water with a drop of oil. You let it do its job during a quarter hour, then you wash it with water. It's very effective, but then again I don't know if you could "access" all the hidden ones on a foxglove.
>>718378
It's been a cold and dreary March over here. I'm hoping my herbs and strawberries survive, I might've put them outside too soon.
>>718353
You sure it's not something else, like cold damage or a fungus or something? Sun didn't shine here at all in the last 3 days, plus there's some plastic foil "roof" above them (for rain protection) that weakens most midday sunlight anyway
It didn't get much more sun exposure than my other seedlings which I've started placing outside during the day when the sun is out, and they seem to be faring well with that (pic related, 4 on the left are the December seedlings, 3 others February and I have about 12 more of the latter still in those smaller rectangular partitioned plastic containers on another window. Also, that radiator isn't on right now)
>>718378
German Upper Rhine fag here, March so far has been much colder than average (daily mean 4.3°C instead of 6.7°C), however trees are still flowering kinda early because winter was mild as fuck (some cherry plums and almonds have started in late January FFS)
With pretty much the same weather since November, it feels like autumn never really ended and will slowly transition into spring
transplanted some seedings today , cukumbers took the biggest hit and are all wilty, watermelons did surprisingly well how can help them recover
>>718476
That's strange, I read about watermelons not liking to be transplanted because of the flimsy root system (even states so on the seed package), yet I also carefully managed to transplant one successfully (with the right soil moisture level the whole pot content should come out and stay in that shape to be put in an adequately sized hole in the soil of the bigger next pot)
Don't know about cucumbers (same family as melons), maybe they're even more sensitive to that.
Did you replant as I described (whole old pot content into new one) or did much of the soil/root crumble away upon replanting?
>>718486
i made the mistake of letting them grow too much in a shallow germinating container, dirt crumbled and im sure on some of them the root system didnt stay 100% intact,
>>718474
Oh, also forgot pic, temps have been zig-zaggy here recently
This might be a dumb question that I should just google, but planning my first garden once I own my house (posted above). How do I know when root plants (like radishes and carrots) are ready to be pulled up?
>>718378
stink bugs came out in full force when it reached 80 a couple weeks ago
>>718615
Only saw some honeybees around ch*ckweed (and my miraculously ever-flowering rosemary) in early February
got a couple of millipedes hanging out in my planter box. Should I get rid of them or are they helpful to plants?
>>718476
How often should I be watering my seedlings and how much? I've just been watering when the top of the soil starts to look dry. ~every 3 days
Any ornamentalfags here?
I have those 3 Canarian date palms (Phoenix canariensis) in pots since 2013, and I read a lot of conflicting info about them recently. Some sites claim they should move inside as soon as temps drop below 15°C, but I had mine outside all winter long, except for a couple days in January when it was really cold (highs/lows of -5/-7°C on the coldest day) I put them in the garage, but they still look healthy, should I be worried? In previous years they went into the garage from late November/mid December to early March, but the garage isn't very warm either, it just "buffers" outdoor temperature fluctuations
Also it's supposedly growing deep roots, so are those pots too small now (see pic)?
Largest pots I can get from hardware store are 60cm in diameter and depth, and they cost around €18 each, how long will they hold me out, or is that still not enough?
Or should I try planting one out in the garden in zone 8a, do they have a chance to survive with cold protection (if necessary, heated)? Soil here pretty much never freezes deeper than 10cm even in the worst winters, and with some simple protection like mulch layer, it's easy to ensure that soil freezes not at all.
>>718663
For comparison, here's how they looked like 3 years ago when we got them from the hardware store - in retrospect totally etiolated. So I think they developed quite well since then despite our rough climate
>>718658
what i used was shitty chinese food reusable plastic containers as a mini greenhouse, until the got somewhat large, watered them once or twice but otherwise the greenhouse affect made the water condense and redrop
>>718665
Correction: We had them since 2012 already, here's what they looked like back then (even worse), unfortunately I only have a video snapshot
>>718657
milipedes are aggressive hunters
>>718669
>>Dig around them a bit until you see the top of the root.
And just go by vegetable width or something?
>>718633
>honey bee
XD
>>718679
>greenhouse affect made the water condense and redrop
Yeah I have a lot of that in my nano-dome. I leave it next to my picture window so that it gets sunlight exposure.
>>718378
>erratic weather recently
Welcome to spring. It was a mild winter though, both my neighbor and I have a bunch of extra wood.
>>718378
Yup, March is the month you have freezes kill off buds for the year's fruit on many trees. I haven't had a good mulberry crop since 2007-2008 I think. To many years now are really warm when they shouldn't be and then freezing cold and it zaps so many plants. People plant in May here but winter-sown crops are popping up last week and dying from frost this week. Shit sux.
>>718451
All it takes is one good day of full sun for longer than it is used to, to cause wicked scalding. Sometimes symptoms don't show up for 24-72 hours. But, that depends on the plant type.
>>718445
>>718131
>>717947
>>718127
My best offense against aphids has been the water hose. I just hose them off with a spray of water as hard as the leaves can handle without damaging them. At first I have to do it once a day, but by the end of the week there's rarely any aphids left. I do this for outdoor and indoor plants. With garden hose or shower head. I saved many a plant using this method. With lots of tomato plants it can be a real pain though.
>>718633
That's a fly, fyi. Do you eat your chickweed?
My bees come out whenever the weather is above 50F. Nothing for them to harvest except water. I didn't take honey from them last season so they shouldn't need supplements due to the warm cycles. But, this weather sucks.
>>718657
Greenhouse millipedes normally only eat decaying plant matter and some insects and parts. But, they can eat your crops if given the chance. Normally stuff like mushrooms and fruit touching the ground. They like moisture.
>>714261
The Monsanto seed engineered to grow once is for wheat, corn, and soybeans. Those genes are not in fruits or vegetables. But the bananas and certain varities of watermelon and tangerines have been naturally bred to not produce seeds.
>>718805
You can clone bananas though. Cloning weed, corn, and soy, even if possible, sounds tedious.
>>718777
Well I was talking of spraying them with soapy water, but that's exactly what I do afterwards.
Also just checked about common green lacewing, apparently they eat less aphids than ladybugs, my bad (though they seem to also eat spider mite, caterpillar and scale)
>>718805
this is false, monsanto seed will grow more than a single generation.
the reason why you can't go to the store and buy corn and grow it is because it's not a fully mature seed, if you buy local sweet corn during the summer and try to plant that it won't grow wither.
the corn needs to stay on the stalk until the stalk dies on its own and then you can harvest the seeds
if you plan to plant corn and save it for later, make sure you let it fully ripen until the plant dies
>>718843
This guy is correct. Monsanto DID develop a "terminator gene" that would prevent growth of successive generations, but since GMOs can still pollinate non-GM plants, Monsanto could be held liable for crop losses caused by their gene which could easily be to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars for each farmer affected.
So it does exist, but is not used in any of their seed products.
>>718991
Yeah because of Monsanto seed contract.
Monsanto legally does not allow saving of their seeds. It is physically possible, but they'll sue you out of home and health
If every soil surface is planted with industrial crops and the system collapses, specifically the infrastructure that provides seed, fertilizer, herbicides, and pesticides, then the seed harvested from industrial farms cannot be the basis for a new 'medieval' agriculture.
Yields and viability will drop sharply. These plants are not meant to be heirloom varieties and only perform when freshly cloned.
Without petrochemicals these race horse varieties cannot perform because they don't encounter the narrow set of conditions they were made for.
You can cross those traits back in, but it will take just as many generations of sophisticated labwork as optimizing them away did.
Also: suing struggling farmers is evil, establishing monocultures is insane, and allowing our food supply to be run for shareholder value is a huge mistake.
>>718979
>>718991
>>718843
>>718805
The only reason people "can't" reuse Monsanto seed is strictly because they are patented and the farmers who bought the seed are under contract to never reuse their seeds.
Those person who are caught reusing seed get sued for breech of contract among many other draconian bullshit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_use_restriction_technology
>Terminator seeds were initially developed as a concept by the United States Department of Agriculture and multinational seed companies. As of 2006, they had not been commercialized anywhere in the world due to opposition from farmers, indigenous peoples, NGOs, and some governments. In 2000, the United Nations Convention on Biological Diversity recommended a de facto moratorium on field-testing and commercial sale of terminator seeds; the moratorium was re-affirmed and the language strengthened in March 2006, at the COP8 meeting of the UNCBD.[5] India and Brazil have passed national laws to prohibit the technology.[4]
>>719019
This is why all of us small farmers and gardeners need to acquire and maintain crops with the most variety as possible. Grow as many varieties of one type of vegetable as you can and encourage open-pollination. Create your own local seed bank and share with local growers/farmers.
http://cipotato.org/
http://www.seedsavers.org/
http://www.nativeseeds.org/our-approach/seed-bank
https://www.bgci.org/resources/seedbanks/
http://www.cimmyt.org/en/what-we-do/germplasm-and-seed
>Seedling standoff
Do you?
I always raise more seedlings than I have room to plant. So for the last pot there's a direct competition. Two seedlings go in, one seedling stays.
Is this cruel?
