Sup /out/
Bored EMT here, and an outdoorsman. Post your first kit/contents and I rate/give suggestions for it.
Don't have a first aid kit? Name me a price, the kind of camping you do, around how much weight you can carry around and I'll find you something good for it!
General tips:
1. Don't buy shit you don't know how to use. (scalpels, IV sets, airways in most cases)
2. Have something for both major and minor trauma.
3. Have a tourniquet.
4. Have shears
5. Have a shitload of gauze.
Ask away!
Haven't made a FAK yet but do you have any recommendations for one in a desert environment?
>>670399
Any lightweight solution to stop or delay explosive diarrhea?
>>670404
>>670403
Interesting question, and I might not be the expert to tell you, since I haven't really ever worked in a desert-like environment. In terms of injuries, they'd still be roughly the same, and if anything I'd recommend making sure to ALWAYS stay hydrated. Dehydration is a bitch, and a number of 911 calls we get attribute to it. I'd pack some water that you'd use in an emergency-only type of situation. Only other thing I can think of would be to try to prevent obvious heat-stroke, have some sort of a shelter from the sun, etc.
>>670404
A little bit out of my scope, but the best answer is to have a balanced meal, with fiber, so your shits are not terrible. >>670406 pretty much has it figured out
>>670404
Uh...loperamide? (Generic imodium)
>>670410
>little pills lighter than sunflower seeds add too much weight
Autism speaks.
Ductape
Gauze
Ibuprofin, loperamide, epipen
That stuff that is elastic and sticks to itself
Some Cyanoacrylate
A lighter and a knife
Good enough first aid kit?
>>670422
Oh and alchohol, how could I forget.
>>670425
Hope you're referring to moonshine
>can be used as fuel for liquid stove
>can be used as a topical disinfectant
>gitchu drunk
>>670425
Pretty good. What kind of gauze? I'd suggest a cheap sam splint as a decent addition, and some gloves just in case. Also, you allergic to something that you carry an epipen? Just curious
>>670436
Whatever cheap stuff they have at CVS for the gauze. Thanks for the recommendations though, I'll grab those next time I'm there.
>Are you allergic
I am allergic to some foods, but carry an epipen going /out/ because you never know if once you go out you'll find out you happen to be/happened to develop an allergy to something that you don't normally encounter, like insect stings/bites or some plants. Also useful for cardiac arrest whatever that's worth.
>>670399
Small kit I actually carry on day trips:
Moleskin
Various bandaids
Gauze pads
Athletic tape
Vet wrap
Antiseptics
Tweezers
Meds (Ibuprofen, Robax (Ibu+methocarbamol), benadryl, ceterizine, imodium)
Small tube of super glue because I have one
I know I should throw in some folding scissors.
Bigger kit for longer trips: Adventure Medical .7
>>670446
If you're out somewhere and a guy goes into cardiac arrest, he's just dead man. Unless you're right by a roadway, and can get help immediately there. Even then he still has a less than 5% chance of survival, even if everything went perfect. If you're /out/, it won't go perfect. He's just dead.
You shouldn't carry an epipen if you're not prescribed it. You should only use it to avoid death. Benadryl is better for 99% of allergies, especially if you don't have a specific allergy that you're trying to avoid. Generally your first allergic reaction to something isn't severe anyways. Go ahead and take it some day when you're stung by a bee and are mildly itchy, you'll regret it. I know people who do have severe allergies, and they avoid taking their epipen until they absolutely have to because it sucks so much.
Speaking of cardiac arrest, an epipen can cause it, so don't use it unless you're having severe anaphylaxis.
>>670466
Muscle relaxants are for a preexisting condition BTW (old mountainbiking back injury that spasms on rare but sometimes inconvenient occasions) I always carry a few just in case.
>>670467
Also, the dose of epinephrine for cardiac arrest is more than 3 times the amount what's in an epipen, and it's given via IV, and it's given every 3-5 minutes. An epipen would do nothing in a cardiac arrest. The little amount that would be injected into the muscle would absorb slower too, since they're not adequately perfusing their muscle tissue.
>>670467
Confirming what this guy said. DO NOT give epi during someone's arrest unless they are in anaphylaxis (allergic reaction to something causing the swelling of the airway)
>>670466
Besides the scissors, this seems like a good kit. Throw in some gloves, and you're good to go, especially on small trips. Also might need some medical tape, to secure gauze etc. I guess you could throw in a TQ, but that's really up to you. What kind of antispectics btw?
>>670467
Don't worry mate, I'm not a total idiot, I know not to use medication I don't need. It's more of a just in case thing since I generally carry one with me anyways as my allergy is to something relatively common in today's foodstuffs and you never know if you happen to get unlucky and have a piece fall into your food at the factory that processes every thing imaginable.
Also I was joking about that cardiac arrest thing for the most part. I go out solo and it's really questionable what I could do if I myself were in cardiac arrest.
>>670472
That kit's primarily intended for using on myself but you're right about the gloves, I'll see if there's room in the pouch.
I figure either the vet wrap or athletic tape would do to secure the pads at least temporarily if I ever need to use one, besides being good for other things (I'd want to clean up properly at home anyway, or if it's bad enough, get it checked out).
>What kind of antispectics btw?
Can't remember exactly and the kit's downstairs. That little cotton swap has antiseptic in the tube, just break off one end, also stole a couple of the wipes out of the Adventure Medical kit.
>>670480
Sounds perfect in that case. Dont really have any other suggestions.
OP going to sleep. If thread is alive tomorrow, will bump/respond to anything.
What's a good quality antiseptic/antibacterial for a FAK?
Apparently hydrogen peroxide isn't good and I've seen some posters advocate using saline solution to wash out the wound
>>670483
Saline or sterile water is what we use for flushing wounds, along with alcohol wipes. Saline and sterile water dont exactly disinfect though, unlike alcohol, and alcohol wipes which I personally recommend for cheap disinfectant.
>>670489
Yeah this is what I've got so far
>Bandaids
>Ibuprofen
>Benadryl
>Gauze
>Medical tape
>Non latex (vinyl?) disposable gloves
I've got a smallish bottle of contact solution about 1/3 full, I guess I can throw that in too
>>670489
Is iodine still used?
>>670474
Basically the second you go into cardiac arrest, you're unconscious. Some people make a weird kinda of moan and move their arms a little, but they're not aware enough to do anything.
>>670483
Iodine
>>670399
What's your first aid kit look like?
My first aid kit is shitty and thrown together without much thought so I figure it's about time I make a real one.
>>670436
>cheap SAM splint
>SAM splint
Wew lad, why not save money and just use a pillow (packable, obviously) and nearby materials like they teach you to do in EMT school?
>>670399
Another few recommendations (former army combat lifesaver). Have something on you with your bloodtype on it, label any pills clearly, and also have some sort of guide on how to use the contents or emergency first aid in your kit like
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0971100772?colid=FSPK2I09XT5C&coliid=I34S9TSYVXBZ84&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl
You may not be the one using your kit, someone may be using on you with no clue whatsoever.
Since my hiking pack has MOLLE webbing my kit is in a small MOLLE pouch with the typical red cross patch and my blood type patch on it with that guide packed in with the materials as well.
Also pic from an older first aid thread.
>>670547
Having your blood type is generally irrelevant, because any time you receive blood, they will do a type and cross anyways, or give a universal donor type blood.
Many people think their blood type is one thing, and it's actually another, so a hospital does not rely on that, unless it's in an actual medical document at their facility.
>>670551
Well you're in a remote location and they can't drag along all the equip for a test etc best to have something on you with your blood type and any allergies if you're incapacitated.
Better to be safe than sorry, especially if it's something as simple as a patch or a card in your wallet/first aid kid.
I carry ladies sanitary pads and electrical tape. Its a good kit for chainsaw wounds.
>>670409
Keep in mind that your body gets the shits for a reason, if you stop it is possible to get sick. For a day or two to get home, it's ok, for a week to avoid dehydration you probably fucked either way.
MREs are best stool herdeners.
>>670399
i have a standard motorbike first aid kit in my bag should do the trick in most cases.
> sterile bandage strips (10 cm x 5 m): 2 pc
> sterile compressa (6 x 6 cm/100 sheet): 1 pc
> hand sanitizer tissues: 4 pc
> gloves: 1 pair
> adhesive tape (1,25 cm x 5 m): 1 roll
> scissors (stainless steel, 110-150 mm): 1 pc
> iodine (or something like that) (30 ml): 1 pc
> bandaids (6 x 10 cm): 2 pc
> hygenic facemask (for cpr): 1 pc
> surgical mask: 1 pc
> first aid in pictures: 1 pc
> inventory: 1 pc
Small rolls of gauze x3
Assorted bandaids.
Trauma sheers.
That elastic cling bandages thingy. X1
Bunch of iodine
Alcohol swabs, iodine swabs
Hemostasis powder pouch x1
Cold packs x1
Anti diarrhea pills x12
Ibuprofen x12
Acetaminophen x12
Tums x6
Small bottle of tea tree oil x1
Multivitamins
Suture kit
Saline in those disposable squirt tubes. X3
Couple of bandannas
Couple of condoms
Antihistamines
Splinter removal tweezers
Eye lubricant
7 days worth of antibiotics
I really want to get some strong painkillers but I wish I could do it legally...
>>670399
>Have a tourniquet
which type btw, also when to use it?
>>670574
have a belt or a piece of cordage or a shirt you can rip up?
have a stick you can use to tighten said above item?
you have a tourniquet
>>670590
yeah i know but out of box torniquets are supposedly less prone to cause tissue damage and can stop bleeding at lower pressure not damaging nerves and generally better and whatnot.
>>670554
If you're that remote, getting blood to you would probably not be viable. In most situations, they would just give IV fluid to stabilize your blood pressure and evac you. If they somehow DID get blood to you, it would be universal donor blood (O negative).
Any type of help you'd be getting would not carry all the different types of blood. They'd carry O negative. It would not be viable to carry every type. Emergency services carry O negative.
Also, you can do a bedside test with blood on a simple card, that can test reaction of your blood type. It's not as reliable as a lab test, but will work in an emergency.
Listen, I get it, in a combat situation like you were tained, it can save your life. The rest of the world though can not, and would not rely on a blood type you had written down, engraved on a tag, or embroidered on your pack. It's too unreliable. You would get O negative blood, or be typed and crossed and receive your blood type.
You really will not have any advantage by listing your blood type on yourself.
Listing your allergies however can help you. Along with any significant medical history and medications you take.
>>670574
You use a tourniquet when your only other option is bleeding to death.
You can stop nearly all bleeding with firm, direct pressure over the wound.
If you have a significant arterial bleed in an extremity, a tourniquet is effective. The commercial ones reduce risk of tissue damage. It has been found they work well without risk of losing that limb as long as proper care is provided quickly.
However when you're /out/ in a remote location, and you apply a tourniquet, you need to be prepared to lose that limb, as it is a possibility.
>>670625
so basically not worth packing because you gonna lose the limb anyways or die.
can't you just alternately open the tourniquet while putting pressure on the wound to extend the limb viability to hours?
>>670625
Would you suggest a narcotic like ultram or something inside the kit?
>>670627
I don't carry one and I'm a paramedic. I've been one for 12 years and never needed to use a tourniquet for serious bleeding. We also have very very little gun violence in my area though, and tourniquets are often used on extremities that have serious bleeding from gun shots. The only gun shots we get are suicides, and people who have really good aim.
If you have lost serious, serious blood, and are in what we call shock, do not ever release the tourniquet. Thats medical shock, not the feeling of being surprised like TV shows.... "omg he's in shock!". That's just a way that uneducated people describe someone who is bewildered.
ACTUAL medical shock, is when the body is losing the ability to compensate for the loss of fluid. Low blood pressure, pale skin, weakness, rapid heart rate. All signs that your body is not able to cope with the amount of blood you've lost. The body can effectively manage losing about 2 liters of blood. We get people all the time that have been bleeding, and they're like "I thought I was going to bleed to death!", when they've only lost maybe a cup full of blood at most (meanwhile waving the injury around putting pressure on it once every few minutes then stopping). It's amazing how many times we go somewhere for someone bleeding, and they are like "OMG IT WON'T STOP!". We put direct pressure on it for a minute or 2 and it's stopped.
Picture a 2 liter bottle of soda full of blood. That's about how much you have to lose to really start to have shock. You can survive losing more, but it's not a good thing regardless.
If you have not lost much blood, your skin color is good, and are not dizzy, releasing the tourniquet and rechecking for bleeding may be ok after about 1 hour.
>>670629
I'd say definitely not. When you're hurt, and need to get out of a situation, it's going to hurt regardless of a pill of ultram. The only thing that will do is make you more weak, tired, and lower your blood pressure. Anti-inflammatory drugs like ibuprofen are better, as they can reduce pain and swelling while not effecting your blood pressure or mental status. Opiates take away pain at a neurological level. They do nothing to treat an injury, they only block pain reception. Anti-inflammatory drugs reduce pain by actually treating the injury. Narcotics can actually increase bleeding by a significant amount, as they dilate blood vessels. They are absolutely contraindicated (not advised) in situations where internal bleeding, or significant external bleeding is a possibility.
>>670399
Kayak FAK:
>Fabric bandages in varying sizes
>non-stick gauze pads
>medical tape
>Tripple-antibiotic ointment
>nitrile gloves
>~4oz hand sanitizer
>~4oz 70% isopropyl
>leatherman squirt PS4
>waterproof container marked with red cross
>>670637
for serious bleeding the standard procedure is to lie down put head down pull legs up and raise the wound above heart level no?
4 ply sponge gauze 2x2 inch x 50
4 ply gauze 4x4 x 10
Instant cold packs 2
50 bandaids
Safety pins 8
2 tweezers
Anti sting, itch, poison ivy wipes
2 superglues
1 duct tape
Suture stapler
Advil
Benedryl
army medic field kit.
>>670639
Thanks medic bro. Don't really have much to add to your answers, and thanks for helping out with the thread.
>>670644
For a kayak this seems pretty perfect. I'd maybe get a pocket mask for resuscitation, given that you're going to be near water, but otherwise I don't see much else you'd need.
>>670699
I'd get more gauze and less bandaids, since gauze is generally better and more practical imo. Get either kling (roll gauze) or some tape to secure your 4x4s with, duct tape ain't the best for that. You don't need a suture stapler.
>>670705
You an army medic, or just have it bought from someone? There are a loooot of things in here that you probably should not even consider using.
>>670824
no, it was given to me. there is a lot i dont know how to use, but that will never get packed into my own kit
>>670827
Alrighty. Just making sure that you aren't attempting to intubate someone when you don't know how to. What are you planning to pack into your own kit?
For anyone interested, I'm thinking of setting up a shopping list for medical supplies that include pretty much anything you'd need or use. Miight end up being quite pricy, but it will be in pretty decent bulk packs that you can re-order. Hope to at one point get something along the line of logical increments in terms of price.
>>670689
Elevating the wound helps, but laying down with your feet up (trendellenburg position) has been found to be ineffective, and even counter productive.
The main priority is to stop the bleeding. Firm direct pressure is the key.
My kit is the same for walking/kayaking/work/bike etc as it's all the same backpack
>pocket mask
>oral and nasal airways
>various banadages/ plasters
>several triangular bandages
>tuff cuts, tweezers
>aspirin, Ibuprofen, paracetamol, glucogel, loratadine
>foil blankets
>several saline solution vials (the ones for eye washing but good for washing cuts etc)
>alcohol wipes, nitral gloves
>ice packs
>burn dressings
I'm amazed people can get antibiotics so easy, I suppose this is one of the reasons the world is fucked in that regard
>>670705
please do not intubate someone unless you know what you're doing.
>>670399
OP, FUCK your passive aggresive jugdementality!
Who the fuck are you to "rate" me again?
Up yours, you egotistical bastard!
Fucking rate this!
>>670855
I have 4 types in the closet in case I would need them. I have taken one round of antibiotics in 2+ years.
>>670855
Hi!
Pretty good kit there, however I'd recommend packing some more things for bleeding control. Gauze, 4x4s along with some kling (Roll of gauze pretty much) or tape to keep it on a wound. For more serious situations, I'd recommend bringing a larger trauma dressing, or something like an Israeli bandage. A tourniquet wouldn't hurt either.
>>670892
They are most likely expired, and you shouldn't take them if they are.
>>670399
This is the 21st century dude. Emergency medical help is always less than ten minutes away.
>>670941
>less than ten minutes away
detects the armchair /out poster
gauze, pads and roll
waterproof adhesive tape
antiseptic wipes
antibiotic ointment
tweezers and sheers
tourniquet
emergency blanket
Naproxen
water purification tablets
smiley-face band-aids
gloves
Any recommendations on what I should add?
>>670833
gauze
12oz 100% grain alcohol
sam splint
ace bandages
medical tape
antihistamines
antibiotics
muscle relaxers
pain reliever
abd pad
muslin bandages
gloves
IV needles
dental dams
condoms
>>670984
> muslim bandages
> dental dams
For eating out herpes ridden burka burka pussy are bandaging their suicide bomb wounds.
You fags are dumb.
>>670981
SAM splint, and some triangular bandages for broken limbs. Maybe an Israeli bandage. You got the basics well covered.
>>670984
What kind of pain relievers? You don't know how to set an IV, and even if you do, you won't get much use of it. Get rid of that. Make sure all your meds are not expired. Otherwise you're pretty good.
>>670941
Unless it's not 10 min away.
>>670993
True, then it is like 5-8 mins away.
>>670984
>12oz 100% grain alcohol
Better off with lesser proof. The 100% stuff shouldn't be used on wounds or consumed due to how it is processed to get to 100%. It is really isn't 100% pure grain alcohol, there's still some benzene in it.
>>671088
I forgot cell service is everywhere
And that phone batteries never died
And that everyone has a cellphone.
>>670992
The IV needle isnt for setting an IV. i just figured a large sharp needle would be handy innawoods. painkillers are ibuprofen 800s and aspirin with codiene. i have a perscription for it. Also, i recently read that WHO and the military did an actual shelf life test on medications, and as long as their stored properly, they last a while.
>>671090
its probably not 100%. my hydrometer is off. its great to get wet logs going though
Bump. Taking more questions.
>>670399
For long-term trips:
1 quickclot sponge
tourniquet
benadyrl, immodium, ibuprofen, asprin
moleskin
band-aids
a wad of gauze
duct tape
alcohol wipes
antibiotic ointment
a compression bandage
trauma shears
eye drops
nitrile gloves
hand sanitizer
a few butterfly bandages
I want to add more, like an israeli bandage or a sam splint, but I'm concerned with weight and bulk in my pack and not sure. What do you think I should add?
If you're out and you have an anaphylactic reaction, an epipen will only let you live an extra 25 minutes so you're dead anyways.
>>672471
I'd suggest to have something different from a wad. Get a few sheets of 4x4s and some roll gauze (kling, stretch, gauze etc) in addition. Quick clot is honestly kinda meh, but bring some more gauze. Can replace bandaids with it, but not really too big of an issue. I'd definately go for a sam splint, at least over an israeli. If you get some sterile gauze, and you have a tourniquet, you're pretty well covered for bleedings. I am not sure how heavy the quickclot sponges are, but if you want to trade them out for a SAM, I'd go for it. Lastly, get some medical tape. Duct tape is good, but not for medical stuff.
>>672472
Typically 2 epi pens are carried, or at least from what I've seen. The biggest mistake people make is to delay administiring it, or not following the directions to administer it properly. There will be some safeties, but please just follow the directions.
1. Remove safeties from the injector. Keep your fingers clear of the buisness end. Don't put your thumb over the tip, to make sure that in a panic, you don't accidently stab your finger.
2. Administer it on the thigh. Yes, it can be administered through clothing, so don't worry about it. Inject, and HOLD THE NEEDLE there for at least 10 seconds.
3. Get some help if you haven't already.
Here's my FAK. Now /out/ can tell me how it's wrong and I'm a fag.
>>672613
Is the giant syringe for enemas?
>>672616
It's an Irrigation syringe
>>672617
;)
Gonna be a realist and say that the FAK that you need is generally very minimal. The best piece of equipment you can have is the ability to call for help. You don't need torniquets or tough cut scissors.
You just need basic provisions for foot care, a few things for wound care, maybe a few paracetamols.
Literally anything else is pure fantasy.
Source: doctor
>>672683
Dude always have a suture kit. Or a sewing kit.
I've had to give myself stitches twice in the field already.
>>672686
Literally why? When you come to hospital with butchered sutures that you did yourself outside, the first thing we would do is cut it all back open, wash it properly and suture/dress it appropriately.
Stop being retarded. Use some steristrips and a bandage.
>>672522
Great, now I can live for 50 minutes instead of 25!
> 1 day or more hike from entry point
>>672688
Let's see I was over 12 hours from the nearest hospital... Rather close a wound then let it fester.
>>672700
Delayed primary closure is actually preferred when wounds are at high risk of infection. Early closure by your retarded self at some dirty campsite will increase the risk of abscess formation. And you probably can't suture for shit btw.
>>672686
why would you stitch tho?
if you have adhesive tape you can close any wound
>>672617
You're not sleeping in my tent with that thing.
>>672520
by "wad" I meant a roll, it's in a little plastic package, but yeah, good point, more gauze is probably a good idea.
the quickclot weighs practically nothing, so I thought it was worth it if there's serious bleeding. I have a SAM splint at home, I just don't have it in my kit, I probably will add it. Thanks!
>>672753
Well this was about 15 years ago, other incident was 13 years ago.
Just had 10 hour post blizzard shitshow shift. Answering what was asked
>>672613
Get more gauze, get rid of the silly syringe, get some more fukken gauze, and get something for more serious bleeding control. Either a tq, or an Israeli bandage. Otherwise looks ok. asked
>>672686
Do not buy a suture kit unless you know how to use it. Chances are, you don't, so don't. I don't suggest you do it either.
>>672836
The only reason I'm kinda skeptical of quickclot is that it does have some complications that may arise at the hospital, and that the wounds that can be treated with just gauze, and stopped with gauze, should be stopped with gauze. Israeli if that doesn't work, tq if that doesn't work. It just, doesn't really fit anywhere in that progression if that makes sense. It has more complications then an Israeli bandage would, but I doubt it would have as much effect on a serious bleeding as an Israeli bandage. You might find people who disagree, but I personally don't see it as useful.
Taking more questions.
>>673071
I guess I'm adding an Israeli bandage to my kit. Thanks!
>>672472
Not entirely true, because during that time you can take benadryl and allow it time to work, and often the anaphylaxis starts to subside once you're removed from the allergen. It may only offer 25 minutes of relief if used alone under worst case situations, but can give time for other treatment to be provided.
>>672700
As another anon said, closing the wound can increase the risk of infection if it's not properly cleaned. Since you were outside, it was not properly cleaned. Even if you think you cleaned it well enough, trust me, you didnt.
You absolutely do not want to suture something closed while outdoors. You're just asking for infection.
Clean it, dress it, and take it closed if the skin is hanging open badly. Otherwise you're just making it worse.
I wouldn't trust OP's advice for anything but life or death, evacuation stuff. Not sure he's qualified for actual medical advice. I would rather hear it from a doctor or nurse who usually ends up cleaning up after the EMT disasters.
I sympathize with your bordom buddy. Just post your kit and leave it at that.
>>673513
What about the guy who's a paramedic posting?
>>673071
Yeah, exactly. You shouldn't be using quickclot unless you're going straight to the hospital. Not good for minor /out/ wounds, but it's probably worth carrying and could save your shit if you have serious arterial hemorrhaging on an extremity.
>>673513
I'll say this, I'd rather have a paramedic with me while /out/ than a nurse.
A nurse works in a facility as a general rule, where everything is clean, and there are unlimited supplies. This isn't always the case, but 99% of nurses work this way. They never have to adapt, or improvise. A nurse also never has to make critical judgements. They only are able to follow orders given by a doctor. A paramedic, while having a set of protocols, constantly has to make quick decisions about treatment, while improvising and adpating.
It's real easy for a nurse to start and IV and give some med in a clean, well lit hospital room, with a doctor right around the corner. It's another thing to be laying in a puddle of mud, in the pouring rain, with no contact with any doctor, with a guy who's just been ejected out of a car during an accident, trying to start his IV.
A nurse never has to figure out a way to get a guy out of a wilderness after he's fallen down a ravine, a nurse never has to carry a 300lbs guy down 4 flights of steps while he vomiting and struggling to breathe, a nurse never has to deal with people out in the environment.
Nurses are awesome, but they are awesome in their environment. Paramedics environment is more closely related to /out/.
>>670399
>Don't buy shit you don't know how to use
>Have a tourniquet
>>670627
When you tie a tourniquet, it would kill you to remove it, even if you put pressure on the artery. Not because of blood loss, but because when a limb is constricted/crushed by something, the potassium contained in the cells pass through the cell membrane and end up in the blood, resulting in hyperkaliemia (excess of potassium in the blood) which stop the heart. It's a matter of minutes.
I'm a nurse but english isn't my first language, so idk if what I'm saying makes sense.
>>673513
It's not so much medical advice, as it is gear advice. A paramedic is more qualified then a nurse is for pre-hospital operations. Of course it's just advice, and you may take it as skeptically as you want, but if you see any actual bad advice here, let me know, and I'll be sure to correct myself, or defend myself.
>>673530
A CAT is not difficult to learn how to use properly, though it would probably be a good idea to post a couple of videos on how tos. It really is not that difficult though.
>>673524
Just from a clinical perspective, a paramedic is more qualified then a nurse in emergency medicine. Of course, this is just typically, as there are EM, ER nurses. Honestly the only advice I'd take over a paramedic would be that of a physician.
>>673513
To further clarify, I am not going to answer something like "I have severe allergic reactions to peanut butter, as well as two replaced knees. What should I bring when going camping?". I am answering questions that pertain mostly to trauma equipment (along with disinfectants), and on what to do during specific trauma situation.
>>673538
well make sure you don't actually crush the muscle tissue with your tourniquet that's the entire point. then you don't have to worry about potassium.
that is in part why wide band shaped tourniquets are developed.
>>670941
Your backyard isn't /out/, retard.
>>673538
During a crushing injury, yes this can be a concern.
If a tourniquet is on correctly, you won't have this build up. It's not only potassium with tourniquets, it's myoglobin protiens. They come from muscle tissue being damaged, and travel to the kidneys, causing kidney failure, it's called rhabdomylosis.
If a tourniquet is apply correctly, you can avoid this. But yes, it is a concern.
>>673710
this shit is also happening if you over-train
muscle tissue breaks down and your kidneys get fucked you can even die from jumping around.
>>672686
Stitches, if not done right are worse than no stitches. You need to scrub that shit super clean and you arent gonna do that in the woods. Suturing in the woods is asking for an infection and further complications. Id laugh at you for wanting to be some rambo shit if you came into the ER when Im working.
gauze
medical tape
triangular bandage
bandaids
duct tape
tweezers
soft tip squeezy syringe
ibuprohpehn
Imodium
benedryl
some sorta topical anti itch
nitrile gloves
soft tip syringe for flushing/ anal delivery of water when dehydrated/vomiting
>>673549
EMT here. I get where you are coming from. Youre not really going beyond basic first aid so I dont see an issue. Youre not saying insert combi tube here.
>>673734
1. What kind of gauze and how much?
2. Not sure if you meant to list the triangular bandage as singular, but you probably should have more then one. Makes it more versatile for the various types of fractures one might sustain. Also I'm not exactly sure if you are serious about the anal delivery of water, but I'd not suggest that.
I'd recommend adding
1. Something for emergency bleeding control. An Israeli bandage, and a tq would do wonders.
2. SAM splint would be pretty good addition.
>>670399
EMTbro, it has been said a couple of times in this thread that it's very hard or impossible to clean a wound properly while /out/
Can you point us to a resource where we can learn how to do that? I don't want to lose a toe or a finger (or godforbid a larger member) because I didn't clean it properly.
>>673797
I wouldn't freak out to that extent about infection, and it's pretty easy to avoid. There aren't really super intense methods of avoiding infection but here are some tips.
1. Wear gloves. Gloves can help to make sure that no matter how much filthy shit your hand has touched, that it won't get on the wound. Just make sure to keep your gloves (along with other medical equipment safe. Here is a video on how to take gloves on and off safely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I_kKVNrEMo
Secondly, I'd try to disinfect the wounds if possible. If it's a small cut, disinfect the area with wipes, or if you have clean (drinking) water, use water as well to irrigate.
Lastly, bandage that shit up. The reason I talk about getting a lot of gauze is that it makes it easier. If it's a smaller wound, replacing the gauze is fine, however try to simply add on more gauze, to stop the bleeding if what you have is not enough. The main concern is to try to keep the wound safe from the elements, and it's not all that difficult to accomplish in field conditions.
>>674075
It is as much of medical advice as answering the question of "what should I bring with me camping so I can sleep away from rain?" with "tent". Is it advice? Sure. Does it take 2 years of camping experience to answer it? Nope. Besides, I am giving the same protocol that we are given under by a medical doctor.
>>670399
Fellow EMT here.
IFAK-
5x PAIRS of xl Nitrile gloves.
2x SOF-T TQ's, NIW
SAM splint
2x 3"x3y Coban, NIW
1x QK Gauze, Z fold
2x Primed Gauze
2x Cravat
2x H&H H bandage, flat fold.
(Yes I know my IFAK is heavier than shit.)
Minor FAK-
3x packs of moleskin
1x Bug Bite stick
1x Chap lip
1 pack of bandaids
5x antiseptic wipes
Tweezers
20 Antihistamines (I have occasional allergies, and they are tiny)
What do you think of my FAK ? I use it when I go /out/, usually 3 - 4 nights in the wild.
Any sugestion to improve it ?
It contains :
On the outside pouch :
_Survival Blanket
_Notebook with my name, adress, alergies, blood type and other important informations.
_Pen
On the inside :
_Water Purification Tablets
_Bandaids (many sizes)
_Antiseptic Spray
_Bandages x2
_Gauze Compress x4
_Alcoholic Compress x3
_ "Sos Burn" Compress x3
_Surgical Tape
_Eletrical Tape
_Tweezers
_Nail cutter
_Small scissors (I have a bigger one with my leatherman)
>>670545
>Implying EMT's aren't taught proper splinting along with improvised splints
Gooby pls
>>670472
>Confirming what this guy said. DO NOT give epi during someone's arrest unless they are in anaphylaxis (allergic reaction to something causing the swelling of the airway)
>>670467
>If you're out somewhere and a guy goes into cardiac arrest, he's just dead man. Unless you're right by a roadway, and can get help immediately there. Even then he still has a less than 5% chance of survival, even if everything went perfect. If you're /out/, it won't go perfect. He's just dead.
>You shouldn't carry an epipen if you're not prescribed it. You should only use it to avoid death. Benadryl is better for 99% of allergies, especially if you don't have a specific allergy that you're trying to avoid. Generally your first allergic reaction to something isn't severe anyways. Go ahead and take it some day when you're stung by a bee and are mildly itchy, you'll regret it. I know people who do have severe allergies, and they avoid taking their epipen until they absolutely have to because it sucks so much.
>Speaking of cardiac arrest, an epipen can cause it, so don't use it unless you're having severe anaphylaxis.
ABSOLUTE SHIT ADVICE
Please stick to topics for which you have knowledge, and when it comes to resuscitation, you clearly have none. It is dangerous to atempt to wheeze your way through the initial measures for cardiac arrest.
Also,
>>670471
>Also, the dose of epinephrine for cardiac arrest is more than 3 times the amount what's in an epipen, and it's given via IV, and it's given every 3-5 minutes. An epipen would do nothing in a cardiac arrest. The little amount that would be injected into the muscle would absorb slower too, since they're not adequately perfusing their muscle tissue.
Another idiot. Epi pen is 1:1,000, epi IVP is 1:10,000. It's high dose via IM. If miles from any trails and decent LZ, and you have it and no other recorse, it could be considered via deltoid after getting help, opening airway and high quality compressions for 2 minutes have begun.
>>670857
oh great we tubed the goose... um ok so like does anyone here have a BVM? can't i just puff onto the big straw? wait i have to inflate the cuff?
this isn't like the TV shows.
this is hard. i think he's dead
>>673524
>>673524
>I'll say this, I'd rather have a paramedic with me while /out/ than a nurse.
>A nurse ... never has to adapt, or improvise. A nurse also never has to make critical judgements. They only are able to follow orders given by a doctor.
Incredibly incorrect.
>A paramedic, while having a set of protocols, constantly has to make quick decisions about treatment, while improvising and adpating.
Unlicensed prehospital providers follow strict orders either standing or direct via medical control. They exert zero independent practice.
>A nurse never has to figure out a way to get a guy out of a wilderness after he's fallen down a ravine, a nurse never has to carry a 300lbs guy down 4 flights of steps while he vomiting and struggling to breathe, a nurse never has to deal with people out in the environment.
Gosh, it's like you only know about RNs from what fictional accounts you've sat on your ass and been spoon-fed to see. For the most part there are lazy floor nurses that aren't more than robots, but then again, use this not as a justification for your lack of knowledge.
You should remember there are nurses working in Africa and rural south America suturing and treating war refugees.
In the air as you read this right now there are flight nurses that make EMT basics look like overdressed volunteers - that is to say that most paramedics and EMTs that aren't in a busy 911 municipal system are utterly useless interfacility drone posers.
See >>673548
>a paramedic is more qualified then a nurse in emergency medicine. Of course, this is just typically, as there are EM, ER nurses. Honestly the only advice I'd take over a paramedic would be that of a physician.
Until you arrive in the ED and you're basically pushed out of the way and your garbage report is ignored and your shit interventions are reversed.
>>675276
Jesus, dude. This is /out/ and we don't need a packing list for SFAS. We're talking boo-boos, sunburns, blisters, and the occasional sprain.
>>675584
The dose for cardiac arrest is 1mg of epi IV.
An epi pen has 0.3mg, given IM
That means the cardiac arrest dose is more than 3 times what's in an epi pen.
You are not giving good advice.
You clearly have never been out of whatever shit ER you volunteer at.
>>675621
A paramedic does have to make independent decisions.
A nurse does anot exam then relays to a doctor, who orders treatment, that is carried out my a nurse.
A paramedic does an exam, decides appropriate treatment, then administers it.
Yes the paramedic is following a protocol, but the treatment for something like shortness of breath varies greatly based on the exam. A nurse never has to decide if the etiology is something like CHF vs COPD because a doctor is always there to decide that for them.
You seem awful mad for having such little knowledge. You didn't even know what a dose of epi pen was.
how likely is it to get cotton fever from jamming an epipen in your thigh through your jeans?
What's a 'shitload' of gauze ? I use these 20x20cm gauze compress on my FAK, how many should I have ?
>>675706
>>675706
>You seem awful mad for having such little knowledge. You didn't even know what a dose of epi pen was.
Holy shit asshole. you are clueless. You sound like a transfer service EMT-Basic that has delusions of medical school one day.
A one time shot of an EpiPen is 0.3mg IM in 0.3ml -- that is the 1:1000 concentration known as high dose -- or one-third the intravenous dosage of 1.0 mg (1:10,000 concentration) recommended q 3-5 min during a cardiac arrest.
Please stop pretending you know what you're talking about. You don't.
That said, anyone from the transporter in the hospital pushing the stretcher to the dispatcher taking 911 calls from drunks has to make independent decisions.
However where you fail in understanding is what authorized decisions anyone working in EMS is permitted to make, is per direct physician order. Nurses use clinical judgment to work with physicians, propose orders, carry out with safety appropriate ones, refuse inappropriate ones, and create plans of care to get a pt admitted or discharged.
A technician who is with a pt for maybe at most 45 minutes does none of this.
>>675416
Anyone can help improve my FAK ? I don't really know shit about medical stuff, but I'd like to improve
>>675702
Just stick to driving the nursing home patients home from dialysis and ideally directly home without stopping at Burger King. This is about all they pay you $9/hour to understand.
Explaining ß agonist effect, the Frank-Starling law, high v. low dose concentration epinephrine, and dose absorption curvers and rates of IM vs. IV are a complete waste of time to some random millenial generation prick on an anime imageboard.
By the way folks, if you're camping, someone croaks in front of you, and you have an EpiPen, after following BLS guidelines, you might consider in your desperation slamming it into the closest largest muscle near the heart and hoping it's not an LCA occlusion and that there is some residual LV function that might generate a pulse. It's subtherapeutic, but unlike what the asshole in >>670471 said, an EpiPen migh do something in a cardiac arrest after you get a round of compressions moving about 18% of blood volume around.
Also,
>>672683
is the best advice in this thread.
>>676078
>On the inside :
>_Water Purification Tablets
>_Bandaids (many sizes)
>_Antiseptic Spray
>_Bandages x2
>_Gauze Compress x4
>_Alcoholic Compress x3
>_ "Sos Burn" Compress x3
>_Surgical Tape
>_Eletrical Tape
>_Tweezers
>_Nail cutter
>_Small scissors (I have a bigger one with my leatherman)
Aloe, some NSAIDs in one of those plastic tube, a few transparent dressings, and room for cushiony warm clean socks.
Maybe a reflective mirror and IR glowsticks for Medivac looking for your lost ass.... or for that impromptu peyote-induced 3am rave at base camp.
>>675621
I made my FAK and IFAK two separate items because of this. If/When I go hunting I add my IFAK to my kit in case I get hit. The FAK stays in my bag, the IFAK is a separate baggie all its own.
You still didn't rate it though.
>>676092
DO here.
This is not true. An epipen would provide little to no benefit in a cardiac arrest situation.
The limited perfusion provided by compressions is not adequate to allow the epinephrine via IM to properly absorb.
Couple this with the fact that the dose of an epipen is 1/3 the recommended dose for cardiac arrest, and the benefit would be insignificant.
It generally would not be harmful, however the time spent administering the epipen is better served doing adequate chest compressions.
Despite current guidelines for epinephrine during cardiac arrest, there is little evidence to support it actually making a difference in patient outcomes.
Or how about we just stick to BLS during an /out/ accident?
We shouldn't be telling people to fuck with shit thats way above their skill set.
>shears
>one 6" izzy bandage
>3x H&H gauze
>Nasopharyngeal Airway
>Non-plastic bandaids
>three pairs of Nitrile gloves
>CAT
>Cyanoacrylate
>Alcohol wipes
>three packs of 325mg ibuprofen
>one pack of 400mg aspirin
>medical tape
>3 alcohol swabs
>sharpie
>casualty cards
I should have multivitamins and antiseptics.
>>676198
Have you learned how to use a Naso Airway?
What Gen CAT (gen.7 is out)
Replace that medical tape with something else, most types of med tape are shit.
+1 on casualty cards.
>>676159
Dumbass RN just got blown the fuck out.
>>676203
Would you say she got....
/Out/classed?
>>676203
>>676205
I've never seen such samefagging except for on /pol/ and /k/ with adolescent angst meeting internet junkies turning on and off their trips while posting for hours hoping for some semblance of human interaction.
>>676159
You don't have to assert your pretend second-class medical education title here. No one cares, and it's pretense. I could tell you I am a late-20s veteran ER RN with great tits and a perfect ass, or a salty mid-30s combat medic in some dusty FOB on his 8th tour, or a PGY-5 chief surg resident. It wouldn't matter one bit.
Giving a shot of an epi pen to a corpse for whom you are flogging has little to no benefit with such a low concentration, into a poorly perfused cyanotic extremity without adequate systemic circulation even in the face of high quality compressions. Besides, for all of you EMTs and volunteers, it is clearly outside of your scope of practice.
Do I recommend sticking an EpiPen in a dead patient with CPR in progress? No. If a patient went into respiratory arrest and then the first 20 seconds of cardiac arrest would 0.3 mg of epinephrine work? Not even the internationally published cardiologist titans know. There is no research to date.
Technically, using an autoinjector epinephrine 0.3 mg is a Class III intervention per per ACLS guidelines.
Arrich J, Sterz F, Herkner H, Testori C, Behringer W.Total epinephrine dose during asystole and pulseless electrical activity cardiac arrests is associated with unfavourable functional outcome and increased in-hospital mortality.Resuscitation. 2011 Nov 11. [Epub ahead of print]
Jacobs IG, Finn JC, Jelinek GA, Oxer HF, Thompson PL.Effect of adrenaline on survival in out-of-hospital cardiac arrest: A randomised double-blind placebo-controlled trial. Resuscitation. 2011 Sep;82(9):1138-43. Epub 2011 Jul 2.
In sum, fuck all of you.
The post that started all of this was to irritate tripfags, teenaged explorer scouts, volunteers, and wannabe inner city medics.
>>676248
I literally only made a joke.
And said for the other professionals to not assume someone can use ,or even has access to, an Epi in the field.
OP get something simple that avoids aches, pains, sunburn, and torn skin. That's all you need.
>>676159.
Addenda for you:
Vasopressin rationale for exclusion and update on the VSE protocol.
Interesting reads below if you actually work in medicine and skim the journals.
Goodnight.
http://emcrit.org/pulmcrit/2015-acls-guidelines-what-happened-to-vse/
Hagihara A et al. Prehospital Epinephrine Use and Survival Among Patients with OHCA. JAMA. 2012; 307(11):1161-68.
Nakahara S et al. Evaluation of pre-hospital administration of adrenaline (epinephrine) by emergency medical services for patients with out of hospital cardiac arrest in Japan: controlled propensity matched retrospective cohort study. BMJ. December 2013.
Jacobs IG, Finn JC, Jelinek GA, et al. Effect of adrenaline on survival in out-of hospital cardiac arrest: a randomised double-blind placebo-controlled trial. Resuscitation. 2011; 82:1138–1143.
Mentzelopoulos S, Zakynthinos S, Tzoufi M, et al. Vasopressin, epinephrine, and corticosteroids for in-hospital cardiac arrest. Arch Intern Med. 2009;169:15-24. PMID: 19139319.
Mentzelopoulos S, Malachias S, Chamos C, et al. Vasopressin, steroids, and epinephrine and neurologically favorable survival after in-hospital cardiac arrest: a randomized clinical trial. JAMA. 2013;310(3):270-9. PMID: 19139319.
Varvarousi G, Stefaniotou A, Varavaroussis D, et al. Glucocorticoids as an emergency pharmacologic agent for cardiopulmonary resuscitation. Cardiovasc Drugs Ther. 2014;28:477-88. PMCID: PMC4163188.
Ong ME, et al. A randomised, double-blind, multi-centre trial comparing vasopressin and adrenaline in patients with cardiac arrest presenting to or in the Emergency Department. Resuscitation. 2012;83:953-960.
Ducros L, et al. Effect of the addition of vasopressin or vasopressin plus nitroglycerin to epinephrine on arterial blood pressure during cardiopulmonary resuscitation in humans. J Emerg Med. 2011;41:453-459.
>>676250
Agreed. Let's additionally concur that 99.9994% of the vistors to this website shouldn't be anywhere near field administration of vasoactive drugs.
Also, that none of the foregoing is medical advice whatsoever, rather merely entertainment, commentary, and general information.
Again, good night. Hoping for a silent night.
>>670399
Camera's busted so no pics, but it contains:
~80m gauze
3 square slings
butterfly bandages
medical shears
4 pairs sterile gloves (2 latex, 2 nitrile)
sticking plaster tape
aluminium foil (in case of cavity breach/collapsing lung)
water purifying tabs
painkillers (ibuprofen/paracetemol)
aspirin
Epi-Pen (if I'm with a group)
saline drops
CPR shield
electrolyte sachets
superglue
pathology-grade hand sanitizer
1 torniquet
I keep it in a milsurp .308 box to prevent crushing
>>676490
I would suggest you get a dedicated chest seal instead of using aluminum foil.
Otherwise not bad.
>>676490
I used to keep a flexible saw as well, but the likelihood of an amputation happening isn't high enough to keep it in my standard kit.
>>676493
Cheers man.
I'll look into getting a chest seal on my next supply run.
all you EMRs. How would you treat a venomous spider or snake bite? do you tourniquet the limb? do you cut the bite and bleed it out? do i need vasoconstrictor? what treatment can i do that will get me to a cure.
>>676505
I'm a metro emt, so I have 0 experience with venom. But basics would be proper TQ placement, and then keep the wound lower than the heart at all times.
I would suggest you keep the bitten person stationary, and go find help if you can. Keep the heart rate as low as possible, prevent the blood from moving around.
>>676071
>first aid kit
>first responder kit
Literally can't tell the difference.
>>676564
IKR? I came to this thread to Bro it up with another EMT and help with FAK, not watch a hissy fit over Epi-pens.
Should I make a new thread about FAK's?
>>670410
>counting milligrams
Jesus fucking Christ.
A dozen pills is like 2 grams. Get over yourself.
New thread is up. Don't fucking give it cancer again twatwaffles. We are supposed to be helping people, not having a digital dick measuring contest.
>>676505
Do not use a tourniquet, and don't cut the wound.
You won't be able to bleed out enough venom to matter by cutting it. The whole cut, suck, and spit is just for movies.
If you're bit by something like a rattlesnake, it's rarely deadly. You actually want the venom to go through your whole body, not stay occluded in one limb. You can lose the limb by the venom staying in that limb with a tourniquet.
>>670399
britbong here
desu I just run with an AMK water tight and ultralight .05 I've stuffed a strip of anti histamines, some 30/500 DCH, and space blanket. Of all stuff in the UK /out/ wise it's hypothermia that is the biggest risk
Realistically if I need more than this kit I'm in need of a trip to a hospital.
>>670941
>implying you can't die within 10 minutes
>>670399
okay so mine isnt entirely camping, but i ride a motorcycle litterally everywhere (i dont even own a car) and for the longest time ive said "i need to get a first aid kit together"
weight isnt an issue but size is.
as of right now i have two rolls of gause and a roll of duct tape in my back pack, and a little tube of knock-off neosporin, and i always have at least two knifes on me that i call good enough for cutting gause or tape or clothing, because theyre both shaving sharp
i have 30 dollars to add to it, what do i put in?
i plan on taking it fishing a lot, and as for camping i go out with the bare minimum for a weekend.
>>670941
unless you're hikes two hours in to the woods with no cell reception
>>676202
I've been trained on how to use it all, as well as had an NPA inserted.
That's why I don't have a pneumothorax(?) decompression kit. I haven't been trained on how to use it and I don't want to do more harm than good.
Thanks man.
>>676202
Oh, and I believe I have an older one. There isn't any red on it, two hole buckle, no white atrip to write the time on. Looks similar to pic related.
>>676929
That's a first Gen 1. I would suggest putting the $20 down to get the Gen 7. There's a reason why there have been 6 more generations, and although the Gen1 is still a very good option.
Groovy on training, just asking. Have fun!
>>676938
Not to be a faggot contrarian, but I don't really see any improvements worth buying a new one over.
However; it wouldn't be a bad idea to buy a new one. I tried "the stranger" a few times with it, and I really shouldn't be fucking around and possibly causing wear on something as serious as this.
>>670941
East Coaster or Eurofag detected.
The truly /out/ places don't have cell reception.
>>670410
>Adds too much extra weight.
Stopped reading here.
>various bandaids both pre-cut and non pre-cut
>gauze presses
>cause rolls
>sharpie for marking tick bites
>500mg acetylsalicylsyre/50 mg caffeine tabs
>alcohol swabs
>hand sanitizer
>tweezer
>tick pen
>israeli bandage
>medical tape
>duct tape
>orange bandana tied to the outside for visibility
in a Marz IFAK with a first aid patch
eh, could be more organized, could be more varied
