http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3359076/We-Mars-World-War-Three-kicks-Elon-Musk-warns-religious-extremism-nuclear-attacks-prevent-landing-red-planet.html
I don't think a Mars colony could be self-sustaining in the near future.
If we set it up and then WW3 turns us anti-technology, then the Martians would be fucked.
>>8806
How about Venus? We get a couple of big space shields in the right spot then hydrate Venus atmosphere then we'll have Earth 2 way faster than trying for Mars...
>>8808
Self-sustaining includes food, air conditioning and lots of other complicated stuff that on Earth requires many specialized factories that are spread out over a large area plus huge fields to grow the resources.
Now you're going to tell me you're going to have them built on hovering platforms on Venus within the next 100 or so years?
The real question is, why is Elon musk so full of hot musky air
Does he want to rock the world like steve jobs?
This Mars meme is getting old tbh.
>>8802
If we don't address the climate change of our own planet and combat global warming there won't BE a Mars to colonize, idiot.
>>8926
Do you like robots on Mars?!
he's just shilling the idea so people will invest in his failed space transportation company
the guy is a total meme, severely overrated
>>8964
I like that's he throws money at crazy shit, since no one else will. Maybe the possibilities m8
>>8970
"Crazy shit" you throw money at should only sound crazy to others. If you don't have a strategy that you can believe in you are just wasting your money.
Now, I can't say I know everything that Elon knows. But I just don't see an angle where his Mars colony could work out the way he seems to be imagining it within the next few decades.
>>8820
>within the next 100 or so years
100 years is a long time, especially in the post-industrial age.
Do you think a person in 1870 would've believed we'd put a man on the moon in 100 years?
>>8973
Some people still don't believe it.
But it's precisely because we have made this progress and understand what is involved in actually bringing the equipment there that we also know our limits.
>>8976
some people also believe the world is flat
>>8977
Some people are right.
>>8802
[1] Martian soil is toxic. Containing high levels of perchlorate, any farming we do on Mars will need to be hydroponic, or we'll have to devise a way to alter Martian soil to suit our purposes.
[2] Weak magnetosphere means that any atmosphere we generate through efforts to terra form will be swiftly removed via solar winds. We would also be more exposed to solar radiation living on Mars.
[3] There is a limit to human physiology when we travel away from a habitable environment. This might sound stupidly obvious, but in the same sense that you need warmth in order to survive, you need gravity as well. Gravity has a fundamental effect on how we live, from gastro intestinal metabolism, to the function of fluids in your body. There is a physical limit to how long a human can survive in micro-G before fatal bone frailty and muscle deterioration would make returning to a 1G environment nearly impossible without immediate emergency medical aid.
We are so not going to Mars any time soon, and the fact that people won't shut up about it is troublesome, if not hilarious. We can barely manage to survive at the South Pole, and Musk wants to start investing in building Space Vegas.
Truth is, we should have focused on keeping this planet habitable, but I guess that's a problem for who ever manages to survive the next great catastrophe, if there is one.
Personally, I think that people are going to keep fucking, gorging and shitting until we have no other choice but to resort to fascism to rebalance civilization.
That's the craziest headline I've read lately, but I guess someone had to do it...
>>9022
And I only just realized OP said "colonate".
We should at least send out DNA seeding pods into space, so life doesn't go extinct when we finally killed off every living thing on the planet.
>>9051
Like what, algae?
There's not many varieties of life that can survive without an entire ecosystem.
>>9012
Not only can we adapt to new environments naturally, we have the technology to speed up the process.
Claiming we can't live anywhere but earth is creationism level of stupid.
>>9054
>Not only can we adapt to new environments naturally,
We can?
>>9053
Don't think Noahs ark, think microbes.
>>9056
No, I get what you're saying. But other than algae there isn't a whole lot we can send off and expect it to make it.
>>9057
We came from a few basic proteins, spread it around enough and life will do the rest.
>>9059
I am not as confident as you are, but I agree that if we sent out a few thousand of those seeds to carefully selected planets there would be a real chance of a few of them resulting in something beautiful, a few million years down the line.
>>9054
>>9055
Evolution is slow, Anon, and the amount of resources we would need to put into such a project would necessitate industrial production of unprecedented levels, further damaging our already badly damaged habitat
And I would love to hear more about this "technology" you speak of, that allows us to somehow speed up the "process"
He probably spent too much money at burning man and is looking to recoup some of his losses
>>8930
You're aware he also owns Tesla, right? Tesla's ultimate goal is to mass produce high quality electric cars for dirt cheap so everyone can get one. That wouldn't solve the electricity itself being produced cleanly but it'd be a huge step.
>>9098
Aren't electric cars still less energy-efficient than gas-powered ones?
>>9098
those batteries aren't exactly environmentally friendly and don't last very long
People who advocate space colonization as a solution to our problems display an astounding lack of critical thinking. If we can't fix the world we have, which, though damaged is still infinitely more capable of supporting us, what hope do we have of survival on some sterile desert planet with dramatically different conditions than we evolved in? Oh, you're worried about climate change? Let's move to Mars where the average temperature is eighty-one degrees below zero!
Likewise, if we can't fix our societal problems here on Earth where we can at least move far away from people with whom we cannot get along, what hope is there for a society in a tin can?
>>9113
>what hope is there for a society in a tin can?
Actually a better one because the tin can would enforce a cultural fusion so it would probably not end up like Infinite Ryvius.
>>9114
Which is why prisons are such utopian environments? And before you say the comparison isn't fair, it is. Prisons are run as totalitarian dictatorships, and so must be space colonies. There will be no choice of vocation. Everyone must perform their assigned duties for the survival of the colony. You are carefully allotted rations. Conditions are spartan, with little unnecessary luxury to be found.
But you say it's still different from prison because the people volunteered to be there? The first generation, yes. When they start having children, do you think there will be no resentment when they learn of the splendors of the earth and how their parents consigned them to a life of subsistence living? Do you think there will be no bitterness when they watch movies of children running freely beneath blue skies while birds sing when all they've ever known is the low metal ceiling of cramped hallways and the hum of oxygen regenerators?
>>9115
>you say it's still different from prison
Yes, for a simple reason. Because prisons have prison mentalities. A ship that's going towards a (hopefully bright) future has a very different mindset from a prison. People aren't there in the two categories of inmates and wards but civilians and police force. That's a major difference.
>>9116
http://www.pilotonline.com/news/military/navy-takes-action-to-curb-suicides-among-sub-crews/article_8baf555b-1cac-5451-a2d5-29bff0aeca3d.html
>>9117
It's not perfect, I agree. I was speaking about the social aspect, I didn't think about the personal one.
That is a point that would need to be addressed though.
Spaceships have very obvious limitations in terms of size, and you need a certain minimum of population for a colonial ship.
>>8802
>Elon Musk
So in other words we are fine.
>>9117
VR. Problem solved.
>>9115
Nice comment - too bad this species isn't going to make it to the Space Travel era...
>>8806
>I don't think a Mars colony could be self-sustaining in the near future.
Better than dealing with angry minorities on this planet.
>>9098
>>9102
>>9109
We need to decrease worldwide energy consumption by 60% within the next 20 years.
Do you even know how mhuch 60% of the worldwide energy is?
At this point we cant even use cars anymore, not even electric ones.
Besides that do you even know how mhuch energy goes into making a single car?
We need to mine resources wich are mined by one the biggest trucks in the world that are extremely polluting. These trucks require diesel, because electric motors won't do shit to haul couple tons of mined resources.
The get the diesel we need to harvest oil.
Our entire world economy is so integrated that we need to shut down everything to decrease energy consumption.
This isn't even about making energy consumtion more efficient anymore, so that in turn we can produce even more shit for a little bit less energy.
It's either stopping society, or extinction.
but I know everyone will say the first one is impossible. Since we love our porn, catvideos, tv, and other crap too mhuch.
So. good luck in the post-acopalypse
>>9132
and thats how the matrix was born
>>8802
Does he have any fucking idea on how life on mars is? I mean, making a big ass ship would be more doable than colonizing mars.
>>9054
Claiming that a human is capable to adapt to a radical condition in a matter of years is just creationism bullshit.
We can't live on Mars.
>>9341
About as hard as living in McMurdo base down on Antarctica, just further away and with even less atmosphere, most of which is CO2, and with slightly higher radiation levels due to no field or ozone.
So, thicker walls and a massive fuck-ass rocket will do the job.
Everything else is similar, same levels of visibility, same temperature extremes, same horribly heavy storms capable of covering things (just one is ice storms, the other is dust)
>>9344
We can adapt. It will take about 20 generations to adapt to a comfortable life, but we can still adapt. (2000~ odd years, about average for large scale internal changes to be noticeable through general drift and mutation)
The lives of those 19 previous generations, however, will be the horrible ones.
Evolution is very "plastic", it is fully capable of evolving over short periods and we HAVE seen it happen in nature plenty of times.
We've seen entire birds species split in half, mammals, canines and loads of other groups even in a matter of a few decades.
Mars, of course, is a whole different issue. A lot of our biochemistry depends on gravity directly or indirectly, from simply gravity-orientated pressures to walking-induced cycling processes in the spine, digestive and brain areas.
That plus our size is the only reason it will take a pretty larger jump in adoption time of such an environment.
>>8806
Well, I don't think the first people there are going to be Wal-Mart employees and dentists.
Obviously you send the best and the brightest, and materials. And they follow the plan. Shit hits the fan, the best and brightest work it out.
>>8977
that wasn't even an idea until the 18th century, and even then was contained to a very small group of people.
Everyone from the Ancient Greeks on down knew the Earth wasn't flat. Stand on a shore and watch a ship disappear over the horizon: bam, proof the Earth isn't flat. Almost every culture knew that. Flat Earth was never a dominant idea anywhere, not even close.
Elon Musk can't project 100 years into the future.
If he thinks that humans are still going to be a biological substrate within the same timeframe that humans can feasibly colonise Mars, then despite obviously being smart enough to run Tesla and shit, he is having a hard time understanding the content of The Singularity is Near which I am sure he has read.
>>8802
>"We have to colonize a cold, desolate rock that can't support human life without extensive biosphere technology before this planet we've lived on for millions of years naturally with only a few major problems before the nine gojillionth war of human history starts."
Laughing out loud, wut? This guy has a serious messiah complex, what a lame, spoiled, delusional fuck.
That's ass backwards, we have to make sure our race goes extinct before it can infect other worlds.
>>9444
That's what I'm saying. If we can't fix our own damaged ecosphere, why do space fetishists assume we can create a healthy one ex nihilo?
>>9487
THIS
>>8802
We should send microbes and Von Neumann machines to other habitable areas. Humanity suffers from way to much humanocentrism. We could have become a tier 2 society by now and as soon as spaceflight becomes affordable someone will send life or replicating shit to new environments.
Here's a crazy idea
How about instead of colonizing an inhospitable planet that doesn't even have gravity fit for human life
We just build and throw research money at space stations where we're more likely to be able to imitate gravity and not need years to travel to and from planets.
>>9487
DAE le humans are le virus?
toxic thinking -- my guess is that you're a hipster or a european
>>9314
perfectionist's fallacy
just because we can't get perfect 0 emission, it doesn't mean we should give up everything altogether and not even try.
>>9524
more likely to imitate gravity in space station? sci-fi movies are fun, but nope. there is more gravity on Mars than in space. period. and we're not going to build space stations with the mass of a planet.
We can certainly make more livable space vessels though, to make the travel more comfortable.
>>9529
Don't speak like a retard
>>9542
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Neill_cylinder
What if Transhumanism and Elon Musk formed ideologies? Robo-Mars colonization?
>>8802
>Humans can't even live correctly on their home planet
>It'll be much better on one without the requirements for survival in abundance!
>>8970
>he throws money
You mean the government throws money at him, don't you? It's not his fucking money.
>>9054
>Muh technojesus
>Dysgenics reigns supreme
>Somehow evolution will save us
Lol nope.
>>9012
>Weak magnetosphere means that any atmosphere we generate through efforts to terra form will be swiftly removed via solar winds.
Just drop a nuke in the center of the planet to restart the core. We've already done it with Earth so it should be no problem on a smaller planet.
>>8808
Floating balloon colonies would be more feasible, oddly enough.
>>10703
***a coordinated sequence of nukes
get your history straight anon
>>9012
>[2] Weak magnetosphere means that any atmosphere we generate through efforts to terra form will be swiftly removed via solar winds. We would also be more exposed to solar radiation living on Mars.
This isn't solvable instantly, but here's one possible solution:
http://www.nifs.ac.jp/report/NIFS-886.pdf
>>8802
This guy is full of pipe dreams.
You did well on PayPal. Tesla will fail in 10 years. Go away youre not a pioneer or a revolutionary, youre a nerd with money.
>>11901
Don't be a hater. I hope he proves you wrong.
