http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-35900242
according to some estimates, there are more Christians in China than Communist Party members. Up to 100 million have been celebrating across China this past Easter weekend.
Why do you think this is happening?
>>36437
sound like a bullshit article;
what estimations? there is a paper published about it somewhere?
And anyway according to wikipedia there are ~88 millions of members of the communist party which is something like the ~6% of the total population, so not really that surprising that there are more "religious" people than communist party members.
Finally christian holidays in most asian countries are incredibly commercialized, so the way of celebrating (and the reason for doing so) for chinese people may be pretty different from an actual religious person.
>>36437
Because christianity and communism aren't actually opposed to eachother, despite what people say. Communist counties having very large christian communities is one of the worst kept secrets I've ever come across.
>>36438
>>Finally christian holidays in most asian countries are incredibly commercialized
So just like the West?
>>36443
the difference is that, at least in my country, it's also a matter of tradition. But I can understand what you mean.
I'm surprised there are even churches there at all. Wasn't the glorious revolution supposed to get rid of all that?
>>36447
They are state sanctioned churches, operating under the purview of the communist party.
>>36438
Yeah I have to agree with this, this smells like a bullshit story. The government of China doesn't even allow any religious censuses to be taken because officially everyone is supposed to be an atheist.
>>36467
It's not I just read a few articles on it from some high reputable organizations
>>36473
its just chinks copying the white man
>>36437
>#2 Aliens
ayy lmao
>>36484
chinks gonna chong
>>36441
Yeah man.. Jesus was definitely into spreading the wealth, a fact that rich Christian people forget.
>>36473
They don't even say where they get the "100 million" figure. They apparently just pulled it out of their ass.
>>36447
Yes. The Cultural Revolution was about replacing Chinese culture with Communist culture, along with setting up a Party controlled Newspeak that ran off of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis.
And then Mao kicked the bucket, the Party realized Mao and his goons were complete fucking morons, and Deng Xiaoping did away with the whole "Marxism" thing and made sweeping changes and reversals.
The Party doesn't actually give a shit about religion. They care about stability and profit. Religions that kneel before China (Realpolitikally the demands and profits of the Party Elite, but in a more ideological sense "China" as a cultural entity).
China has a decent sized Muslim population, about 10 million Hui and 10 million Uyghur. The Uyghur are bullied. They get beaten up by the police for speaking their native languages, their mosques get bulldozed, their clerics get forced at gun point to eat pork, sing, dance, and denounce Allah. The CCP then goes and bans pigs from television so as to not offend the Hui. Why? The Hui follow the Gedimu school of Sunni Islam (Essentially "Chinese Islam", a school that denounces the Saudi monarchy as being sinful agents of evil and promotes China as holy and supreme), whereas the Uyghur follow Saudi Wahhabism/Salafism. The Hui are also literally just "Chinese Muslims". Culturally and genetically, they are one of the many branches of Han Chinese.
Christianity is no different. Give Jesus chinky eyes, write the Bible in Chinese, and have Paul talk about how awesome China is, and the Party would pay to build churches. But the moment the Catholic church tries to bring it's own bureaucracy and hierarchy into China? Then there's a problem.
To give you an example, China has a decent sized Catholic population. And the CCP appoints the Bishops who lead that Catholic population.
>>36441
nope. Before the growth of big governments all over the developed world, it was the church that provided for teh unemployed, widows, pensioners etc.
So while it may be compatible with communism it has traditionally been seen as a rival for the soul of the proletariat, and therefore highly restricted.
>>36467
What? They just don't trust religious censuses because then there would be hard evidence they've been genociding the shit out of several religious ethnic groups for decades.
I've been to China, you can be openly religious there so long as you aren't political about it. They don't have true religious freedom though, there are only a few protected religions.
>>36467
They realized that forcibly converting everyone to atheism wasn't feasible, so they allow - and with tax exemptions sometimes encourage - religious worship as long as it is within close government regulation. The five recognized state religions are Buddhism, Catholicism, Protestantism, Islam, and Taoism.
>>36437
Most people don't know that Christianity is the largest and fastest growing religion on the planet and it's because of East Asia. The PRC recognizes two sects of Christianity and does its best to regulate them. Despite their efforts and their atheist policies hundreds of millions of all (not just rich or poor or minorities) are joining the religion. If you look more widely, you can see the same trend playing out in ROC, South Korea, etc. and it has been playing out for decades.
>>36562
It isn't just that they don't trust the censuses, its that being a Christian is illegal there so people dont report it.
>>36564
According to google:
>It is still illegal for three or more believers to gather for religious purposes without government approval. Eighty percent of Chinese Christians are part of unregistered illegal churches, because they say Christ is Lord, and they cannot allow an atheistic government to control their churches.
>>36756
>>>36437 (OP)
>Most people don't know that Christianity is the largest and fastest growing religion on the planet and it's because of East Asia
People dont know that because it isnt true. The number of Muslims just surpassed the number of Christians for the first time because they Muslims are growing at a faster rate.
>>36764
>People dont know that because it isnt true. The number of Muslims just surpassed the number of Christians for the first time because they Muslims are growing at a faster rate.
Wrong; read the study.
>http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/
1. Christianity is still the largest
2. Islam will not become the largest if the world's population does not increase by 35% in almost exclusively Islamic countries by 2050
3. The projections are sound, but it's still the case that they're counting eggs before they hatch, and Christianity is still, currently growing faster.
>>36767
Way to believe the catholic funded charity, Anon. Incidentally they're the same people who did the bullshit study on "100 million christians" in China.
Even they have to acknowledge that the tide is turning:
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/04/02/397042004/muslim-population-will-surpass-christians-this-century-pew-says
The wikipedia article on world religious practices is based on the same Pew studies. It's funny though how if you look it up on any other source you get much different numbers.
http://www.religiouspopulation.com/
>Current data displays that in 2014 Christian population are about 2.01 billion and while Muslims are 2.08 billion.
>>36437
As to why, I think it is more inclusive a religion and has values beyond the "be nice" ethic of Buddhism, it has a real person showing the way (Christ obviously) and no tricky koans to get your head around.
If there is one thing Chinese people have indoctrinated into them culturally for thousands of years, it is that they are used to following a cult of personality, a "glorious leader" who can do no wrong. Jesus in this case.
I am a militant Atheist and wouldn't normally be interested in a story like this, but part of me now feels it might be handy to have a couple of hundred million more ready to stand against the upcoming religious war against freedom orchestrated (if you believe the news) by Islam.
Thoughts?
>>36776
It sounds like you don't actually know any muslims but hear all the bad things they do on TV.
>>36762
Being a Christian is protected by China's Constitution, but only if you're state Catholics. It's not really the religion they care about, it's people using religion to mobilize common folk against the Party.
They're afraid of underground religious movements because historically China has had dozens of rebellions that spawned out of religious movements.
>>36771
>The tide is turning
According to other studies multiple majority Islamic countries will be increasingly uninhabitable by 2050. Birth rates also have a habit of declining with greater human development. Islam's growth is also nearly totally dependent on birth rates rather than conversion. There's plenty of reason to doubt any predictions along these lines, Pew or not.
Your "Religiouspopulation.com" link is not a real source. It mentions what could be real sources that contradict the study I posted or offer more current information, but it does not correctly link or cite them. I cannot reasonable accept their conclusions, head count numbers, rate of growth, or absolute growth.
If you can post one of the other, allegedly many, "other sources" that show Islam is the largest and fastest growing, then I will review them.
>>36781
>>36781
>Being a Christian is protected by China's Constitution, but only if you're state Catholics
The PRC recognizes two sects of Christianity, Protestantism and Catholicism, and Catholicism is the smaller of the two in terms of growth and total population.
It's also not the case that either sect or both, generally are demographically distinct. These aren't just "common folk" plebes or affluent hedonists, it's everyone.
>History of rebellions
It's true that China has had a ugly history of religious movements sparking huge revolts, and it's true that government authorities attempted to crack down on them in similar ways to prevent their rise before. I would say the CCP has plenty of reason for extensional fear, has no more legit justification to repress rights of PRC people, and is no more capable of dealing with the threat than pre-modern governments.
>>36787
I wasn't aware they were tolerating protestants now, and I've been there a bunch--people who are religious don't proselytize because everyone hates it when they do. China is really not onboard with a lot of Protestant ideas though, like they teach evolution and the big bang and all that.
>>36811
The CCP recognizes 5 religions, regulates all of them, and treats their practitioners like shit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_China
>>36832
They don't treat them like shit lol, I saw like a million people praying at shrines with no issues.
>>36845
>>36845
>I saw like a million people praying at shrines with no issues.
Yet, not a single one will ever attain membership or ever gain rank again in the single party government. They will be put on lists, subjected to state propaganda and discrimination, and, indeed, will occasionally (but not always) have their mass and meetings disbanded.
>>36846
Yeah but that's really not much different from most other Chinese, as they see it. The list of things that keep you out of the Party is one million and one things long for the religious.
>>36846
Sounds to me like the prc is taking steps for another bolshevik style revolution
>>36848
1. It's still state-sanctioned religious discrimination
2. The people of the PRC are not full citizens and will be more likely to rebel
3. The state efforts to coerce its subjects to re-adopt atheism is not working.
>>36851
There's more than one precedent and pattern.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion
>>36853
But you're a Westerner. By and large the Chinese don't give a duck, they're pretty jaded on the matter. Discrimination is not a hot topic like it is here.
>>36857
IMO, eastern civilization is no more tolerant of repression than western civilization. Right now the people of China are experiencing relative plenty. If the pendulum swings in the other direction relative deprivation will, sure as shit, bring back unrest. Insurgency and counter-insurgency are universal across civilizations.
It's also the case that social norms are constantly shifting, and to an extent globalism is crowing out traditional values.
>>36858
But the Chinese at large don't value freedom and never have, which is a big difference between them and the post-Enlightenment West. The important thing for them is having good face, making money, and having the ability to improve their lives.
I think you're right, but maybe not too soon. Once the Chinese born around the 70s and 80s start fading from power, we'll see a lot of differences. The young generation is vastly different from the older ones, and they are into many Western ideas.
>>36437
Christianity in China is like jewry in other countries.
Meant for nepotism and connections
Fills a cultural and spiritual void.
Allows faster westernization and access because of churches.
>>36437
Because Christianity is the one true church
>>36981
*tips mitre*
Stop talking about Christianity you faggots and start telling me what the aliens believe.
>>36520
it may be compatible, but the its surprising, because of the origins of communism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism_and_religion
>>36776
Islam fulfils all of those criteria though. Most muslims think Mohammed was a pretty glorious leader.
>>37034
China actually deals with muslim terrorist in the west of their country but are able to keep the media on it self contained, plus it could be because many Chinese see Christianity is what is done in the west and how Islam is also.
>>36437
>Why do you think this is happening?
Chinese want to be Westernized. Hence the classical music obsession, Western style of dress, inter marriage rate, and encouragement to speak English.
>>36441
China
Communism
Pick one
I've been there, people in cities are becoming even more shallow than ameriturds.
>>36866
>making money without freedom
Top kek
>>37653
Americans have the biggest misconceptions about the world. Americans have asked my friends here in Canada if they live in igloos, and ride polar bears. Obviously China isn't a great place to live, but it's not necessarily unlivable, the only reason we use the term third world for them is because of the cold war.
>>36513
To be fair, a lot of Uighur are separatists. They never really saw themselves as Chinese.
