Recently, I’ve been amazed to find restaurants placing a surcharge (usually around five dollars) for entrée sharing. In other words, you pay extra to get an empty second plate. In some restaurants the portions are so large that entrée sharing is common, especially amongst older diners. But what’s the difference between one person or two at the same table? It doesn’t change costs. Isn’t this surcharge unethical?
I sent your question to my “usually reliable source” in the restaurant industry, and what came back was a rant of Mercerian proportions. Here’s a snippet:
“People forget that they’re not paying just for the food but for the whole dining experience, let alone (God forbid) the small amount left over for a restaurateur who’s spent his life and passion producing that food. Guests often comment ‘I can make that dish at home for half that price.’ Yes, you can, in fact less than half at my restaurants; we know that and we’re up front about it. But your house doesn’t supply the person to cook, serve it to you and wash your dishes — let alone all the other things that create the environment you enjoy.”
Obviously, you touched a nerve.
But the math is solidly on the side of the restaurants. In successful, mid-range eateries (in between Ronald McDonald and Susur Lee), only about 30 per cent of operational dollars are spent on food and booze; another 30 per cent goes to staffing (salary, benefits, training, etc.), and 30 per cent is spent on facilities. That leaves about 10 per cent profit.
http://www.thestar.com/life/2016/04/02/restaurants-well-within-their-rights-to-charge-for-entre-sharing-ethically-speaking.html
When you split an entrée, the restaurant saves some food cost — but the other 70 per cent of costs are the same. You’re using dishes and cutlery that have to be cleaned, sitting on furniture under electric lights, enjoying heat or air conditioning, being seated by the same hostess and served by the same server. And all those amenities and people represent real costs.
So, ethically speaking, there’s no problem with a restaurateur imposing a surcharge for entrée splitting; you’re not paying for an “empty plate,” but for the whole experience of being there. And five bucks seems quite reasonable against a $20 entrée. What’s more, in many restaurants where my wife and I share, the kitchen even splits the entrée, serving it on separate plates. Five bucks? A steal.
And another thought from my source: “thanks to your reader for still buying their booze, etc. and making it worth our while. Most sharers don’t; they want a free glass of water with a toothpick. So he’s one of the good ones; we love him.”
A final thought, this one from me. Remember to calculate your tip not on the bill you receive, but rather on what it would have cost for two full meals. It’s no less work for staff members when you split an entrée. So if they meet or exceed the level of service you expect, you should reward them on the basis of two complete dining experiences.
Entrée sharing is a terrific way to reduce food wastage — I hate seeing uneaten food tossed in the garbage. It’s also a good way to counter obesity. But it’s not a way to significantly cut the cost of dining out — nor should it be.
>>36310
wow, talk about a bad customer service experience. in order to gain and maintain a clientele you do stuff, all sorts of stuff. Because word will get out, and your competition across the street will make a funny sandwich sign or bright placard stating "now with free empty plate"!
I hear you as far as fixed costs are concerned, but its the little things along with the big stuff (clean, fresh food, food safety, etc) that make the Hospitality industry such a challenge, and so different from all other industries.
>>36310
Why not just order the entree for one person, then share it when you get it? They might not like it, but can they really charge you extra for splitting it if you specifically ordered it for one person?
>>36310
Sorry OP, I didn't realize the article was from Canada. Or that you decided to repost most of it in the first two posts.
>>36326
I prefer when they post the important parts themselves so you don't have to go to a different site, though nothing about Canada is worth noting
I guess I get it if you're a steakhouse, but he's talking about $20 entrees at a "midrange restaurant" - are you out of your mind? I consider $12 with a drink to be rather on the upscale. I can go to Chili's or Applebees or TGI Friday's or any other "midrange" restaurant and find a reasonable meal for $8-10.
>A final thought, this one from me. Remember to calculate your tip not on the bill you receive, but rather on what it would have cost for two full meals. It’s no less work for staff members when you split an entrée. So if they meet or exceed the level of service you expect, you should reward them on the basis of two complete dining experiences
That's Toronto for you
ISIL bombs Toronto when?
How is this different from charging people for walking into your store, whether or not they buy anything, because you still have to pay bills and hire employees to help them and clean up after them? Most businesses have expenses other than the cost of the the things that they sell for profit, and most businesses get by without charging potential customers for not buying things.
If you're going to charge per-head, you should charge it at the door rather than sneaking it onto the bill at the end. Anything else is dishonest. If you're going to charge someone for food, you should include with the food whatever dishes and utensils your customer needs to eat it the way that he or she wants to eat it. That's just common sense, not to mention the most basic possible level of hospitality. Next they'll be charging people for napkins and condiments.
There are plenty of good restaurants that are not run by ass holes. If I ever found myself in one that did this, I would never go back.
>>36310
>People forget that they’re not paying just for the food but for the whole dining experience
>let alone all the other things that create the environment you enjoy.
This is fucking bullshit of epic proportions.
Nobody gives a fucking fuck about any fucking "environment," or "experience," if your fucking food sucks, no "environment" is gonna make people keep coming back and ordering your fucking slop.
Nobody in the fucking History of food ever said, "Oh where should we go? The place with the good food or the place with the great atmosphere? Let's just go to a place with some neat posters and shit on the walls, I don't even care what kind of food we get as long as they fold the little napkin into a shape."
Go fuck yourself and I hope your mother chokes to death on the dish you serve for her on her birthday you fucking piece of fucking shit. FUCK YOU!
>>36388
Exactly.
If I went into a restaurant and ordered a plate of food and then shared it with my lovely GF because that's what I felt like doing with the plate of food I fucking ordered and some shithead Gordon Ramsey wannabe came out and tried to tell me he was going to charge me extra for sharing, I'd stand up and walk out right then and there, I wouldn't pay his extra hidden fee and I wouldn't pay him for whatever I'd already eaten either.
You walk in and you order a plate of food, the cost of the plate of food is printed on the menu.
If anybody comes up to me and tries to stick me with an extra charge halfway through my meal, he's gonna have to worry about a lot more than the fucking cost of an empty plate, he's gonna have to worry about me cussing my fucking head off at him on my way out the fucking door and breaking his fucking jaw if he puts a hand on me.
>>36341
>midrange restaurant
>$8 meal
Maybe if you're a cheap piece of shit. What in the world do you consider a low-end restaurant? McDonalds?
>>36311
Oh wow, they split the food! That must be at least 10 seconds work right there, well worth the extra $5
I would rather pay more for all entrees than get nickel-and-dimed with this happy merchant horseshit. My restaurant bill should not look like my phone bill.
What next? I'm sure there's more ways for restaurants to recover their expenses
>fee for every empty chair at your table
>fee for extra time spent sitting at table after you've finished your meal
>fee for doggy bags
>coin operated hand dryers
>>36442
>napkin rental
>napkin laundering charge
>dishwashing charge (adjusted for tier 2 dish usage and silverware consumption)
>napkin delivery surcharge (deferred: tier 2)
>environmental green ecotablecloth initiative investment charge
>tablecloth lease (2 hours)
>>36426
Even their value meals are like $5, low end for him is probably a hotdog cart or a $1 a scoop Chinese food
>>36310
They have a right to charge whatever they want. And I have the right to not eat there and blast them on review sites. Fuck those guys.
>>36426
Live somewhere that isn't urban. Most restaurants charge $9 here, minus tax.
>>36419
I hate the sentiment too. So I'm paying for the college dining hall experience, with 2-3 geriatrics yelling over everybody, hectic service and the guarantee that the boss is pocketing tips? Nah lol, I'd rather get a burger.
>>36419
this
what a load of fuckin' horse shit. Of fucking course it's from toronto. That place isn't even Canada anymore
>I don't like it when you undermine our assumption that one order of food is for one person
>the assumption that our profit margins are based on
>I know, I'll use a merchant's trick and say there's a hidden fee for splitting an entree
>hey guys, my left-wing columnist friend says it's ethical, and trendy!
absolute cancer
>>36462
You know, the rest of the world doesn't get what the hell is going on with the american left/right.
They change labels like socks.
>>36489
They're both about the same but appeal to different demographics with different jargon every few decades. If it looks shallow that's because it is a shallow method of placating the lower class while the wealthy buy candidates.
>>36310
This sounds like Nathans handy work.
My solution dont tip. Or if you really got balls dine and dash. The latter makes everybody horny
Entree sharing is for poor people anyways, leftovers in the fridge master race
>>36421
What if it is posted at the end of the menu, and you miss it?
Or on the first page of the menu and you miss it.
You'd be breaking the law. And I'm sure you wouldn't be the first so he'd have the cops on speed dial
>>36310
>But what’s the difference between one person or two at the same table? It doesn’t change costs.
it sure as hell does
two bums order a plate of fries and kill time during the dinner rush
OR
two legit patrons order aps, an entree apiece, wine and dessert.
the restaurant makes a couple bucks vs like 100 or more bucks.
during lunch and dinner rush, all available seating is taken. people have to wait until a table vacates or they leave and go to a different place. if you're not buying anything significant, you've blocked the restaurant from making money off a different table-full of guests.
the restaurant business is more about leasing table space than selling food. selling food is how you're lured into the space where the money is made. you can say it isn't fair, but that's just the reality. a restaurant that fails to grasp this fact is a restaurant that's out of business.
personally, I'd prefer to go to a model where reservations are required and guests straight-up lease the table per-hour with the food ostensibly being "free" and just being honest about it, but the public, used to being catered to their every bullshit whim, would probably be far too butthurt over it.
>>36573
Your model is weird. Renting a table pet hour and food is free? You could get fat fucks renting it for one hour and eat a lot more than that in food. Or people would have to pay a ton per hour, which means only really high end people would go there and wouldn't wanna feel rushed. The shit you'd do already exists. You rent out a Hall and get catering. Same shit and way cheaper and better than your idea. So why would people pay to rent a table?
>>36648
not all-you-can-eat, obviously. you get appetizers portioned to the number of guests, then everyone gets an entree and something to drink, but alcohol would be priced separately.
>Or people would have to pay a ton per hour, which means only really high end people would go there and wouldn't wanna feel rushed.
perfect. mission accomplished.
>>36310
I'm a chef and I don't agree with this practice, part of being a successful restaurant is making sure everyone is happy, and if someone thinks that your place is being cheap because they charged money to share food, that 5 dollars really might affect return business.
This business is extremely hard to compete and make a profit in worthy of the years of experience you put into it, I have 11 years experience and and consider myself relatively novice. Don't get me wrong im a better cook then 99% of the population, but I still have so much learning to do.
I personally would feel like a place was cheap for charging me 5 dollars to share an entree, and wouldn't return unless it was good enough to justify the price, but at an average place I wouldn't bother, and would probably go as far as to tell people about how lame it was.
>>36657
Do many people share though?
>>36658
No, most people that share will tend to share one item, for example on saturday a 2 top at the bar had ordered 2 dozen oysters, an octopus carpaccio(app), a wild boar croquette(app), and then shared a smoked duck breast for the main. They have already spent a decent amount of money on food, and they were drinking as well, why should I charge them 5 dollars for sharing a single course after they have already spent a decent amount?
We also inform people that they have 2 hours to eat and drink on thur-sat because we have to flip the restaurant twice with 2 seatings at 6-6:30 and 8-8:30, they are told in person by the hostess over the phone, no one has ever really had a problem with it.
I also find charging for bread cheap too, even if its like 2 dollars.
>>36573
Or you could, you know, collect a few statistics and do some arithmetic to adjust the cost of your menu accordingly and achieve the same profit.
Like a sane person would.
If your restaurant is good enough for reservations, you'll be needing them regardless.
>>36310
we always purchase several appies and at least two entrees to share between 2 of us. never ever had a problem.
>>36659
I didn't think it would be a major problem most places
2hrs is plenty of time to eat, even a very relaxed meal with plenty of conversation
>>36525
Leftovers are disgusting. Wouldn't even give it to my dog. What a pleb....
>>36680
It depends on what the leftovers are friend.
>>36448
Utensil rental packages.
Economy class would be a plastic spork and knife.
Premium would be a set of plastic fork, knife and spoon.
The gold package would be metal utensils.
With the platinum package, you would get a different spoon for dessert (the one with the longer handle)
If you leave a utensil on a plate once you're done with a meal, and a waiter or waitress takes away the plate with the utensil (which they've been told to specifically do). You will need to buy the package over again to get your spork back.
The cheapest plan would be $1, and the most expensive would be $7. Good luck eating a steak with a spork, asshole.
>>36733
>Good luck eating a steak with a spork, asshole.
If a restaurant pulled this I'd be eating steak with my fucking hands and they'd get to watch.
>>36310
Why the hell would you have a large entree? Especially one large enough to share? You would just get full and not be able to eat your main.
>>36753
isn't the entree the main course?
>>36780
No, entree is French and means the starter.
Main course in French is "Plat principal".
>>36802
>Americans call the main course the entree
And of course this being /new/ on the image board 4chan, I can't post images on the image board.
Imagine a disgusted face.
>>36802
what?
I dont believe it, post a source or something, some kind of proof because i refuse to believe americans are that retarded.
>>36838
well fuck me.
i googled it and it turns out thats right, americans really call the main course the entree.
They keep talking about experience, but most of the shit is bought and paid for. That chair is going to sit there whether it's filled or not.
If I'm paying for the experience, then pay your employees a living wage. it's only fair that you pay for the experience of wait staff as an employer. You're charging me $5 for an extra plate (yes, you are. If I take it to go and eat in your parking lot you can't charge me for that, but now I'm taking up a parking space).
lol, their loss.
>>36802
No, we do not. We often make fun of Americans for it. However, lately, they've been leaking in.
>>36802
>Americans call the main course the entree
>the city of (You)
I am American. And you're full of shit.
>>36310
>Restaurants well within their rights
They are a business, it's not about rights. It is merely not legislated.
The question isn't legality, it's ethical. If it ever becomes codified or illegal then you can argue rights.
>>3631
I don't get the issue with food sharing. maybe it's because I'm used to eating in China , but it's not atypical for people to share food. in fact , many of the restaurants I frequent have large entrée portions specifically for patrons to share amongst the table. the whole notion for an entree to be for only one person is predominantly a western thing. if two people come into your restaurant and split an entree and this is contrary to your operating method and you see this becoming a regular occurrence, then you, as the owner, need to rethink the entree portion sizes. There's no reason to take it out on your already fickle clientele.
>>36859
Hell yeah man, I spend time in China too (work for chemical R&D so I have to train labs there) and I love the way they eat. All dishes are communal, and I get to eat like half a dozen different things every meal. Way better than ordering a single plate in the West. And I can get a meal that's good as fuck for so little money it's unreal.
>>36341
>Applebee's
>A midrange restaurant
What is it with Americans and chain restaurants, it seems like the only places that aren't nationwide chains are pizza shops.
>>36454
I suspect there isn't a single restaurant near you that isn't low end. No competent chef is going to work for that little money.
>>36844
It's called an opportunity cost shithead, they don't want some pikey coming in drinking tapwater and sharing a main course when a paying customer could be taking the table they're occupying.
>>36871
A paying customer IS taking the table they're occupying. Tables can seat more than one person.
We did it because of niggers. Seriously. They had to do this otherwise the restaurant would fail
I used to work at a hibachi restaurant in an area heavily populated by blacks. It was the highest end restaurant to them, since our average entree was $14. We'd have a welfare queen come in with her 2 little niglets and order one entrée for the 3 of them. Note that the kids weren't toddlers. 3 waters, 2 whole sliced Lemons so she can make her ghetto lemonade. Our hibachi tables would sit 8, and often they would demand the entire table to themselves because as one so eloquently told me "who da fuck eats with strangers?"
So I have a table I could have turned into a potential 7 top for one waiter and one chef and one grill, and instead I make a whopping $14. And I have to make the other customers wait longer for their food because the grill has to heat.
Now with the share charge of $5, they would get extra soup, extra salad, and extra rice, because those items weren't a loss to us, so you got your money's worth and didn't pay for 2 whole entrees. We also wouldn't do the share charge if you bought sushi, appetizers, and drinks. But if you're 2-3 people and you all have water and are splitting one meal with zero apps, you bet your ass I charge you for wasting space that I could give to customers that pay better.
So to keep the restaurant afloat we were forced to do shady things in reaction to the shady things customers did. If the customer demanded enough lemon slices for a whole 2 Lemons, we'd charge them $0.50 for lemon. We used lemon in dishes and for cleaning, so just giving them to customers results in lack of compensation for us.
When I moved and worked at a different restaurant across town, there was no need for any of this, because customers didn't waste your time and actually spent money. Entrée splitting still happened, but these people bought other things, or regularly patroned the restaurant and therefore we were nkt losing money.
>>36881
>So I have a table I could have turned into a potential 7 top for one waiter and one chef and one grill, and instead I make a whopping $14.
How many times did groups of 8 get turned away because there was no seating due to these people? None? None times?
>>36891
Yes, use your brain.
I have to move the 4 people I was originally going to sit there to another table, which ends up having blank seats too. I do this until the restaurant is full, then a 6 top comes in with no reservation. They have to wait 20 mins. 10 mins into the wait, they decide they don't want this food and they leave. This happened before, and this is why we try to sit small groups at the same hibachi table
I'd have forgone the $14 if I had the option to trade it for the 6 top that just left.
Hibachi is a slightly different restaurant experience, and people in that area were not willing to understand something different from the norm they're used to, which is Applebee's.
A tapas bar that tried to make it in the same area failed because the ghetto faggots always bitched about how many of the dishes were free if you purchased a beverage, and they didn't like that bud light wasn't one of the beverage options. Basically someone would order water, then complain about having to pay for their dish, pointing out that the other person in their party (who happened togrt a cocktail) didn't have to pay for theirs. They would also say "dat' s mine!" because the concept of sharing apps was foreign to them for some reason
>>36881
>>36897
I live in one of the richest areas in the country (by median income) and several hibachi places have failed around here. I don't think it's a thing most Americans can get their heads around. The one that still survives supports itself with a massive bar that makes up half the restaurant, I assume that's where the bulk of their money comes from.
I can't speak for the other guy but every hibachi place I've gone to, your server is a combination chef/entertainer and is generally expected to do tricks and put on a show with the knives and food. It is not unusual to be seated at a table with other people (but this isn't a bad thing because traditionally you get a little sample of each meal, so for instance if someone orders the shrimp you might get 1-2 shrimp even if you ordered the chicken or beef). Sitting next to others doesn't bother me (my favorite restaurant is a German place) but in America it is unusual to sit at a table with strangers because we have so much space compared to the rest of the world.
>>36897
The customer gets what the customer gets. If you guys allow private parties that don't add up to your perfect number 7, then people should be able to 'request' a table by themselves. You are allowed to still sit them usually if they are acting up because you can easily take the loss in money (in the event they leave) with the gain of a perfect 7 top.
Also, here's a my disclaimer, understand that the restaurant business is a shitty business. Just because you would like things to be this way because it would net you and your business more money, (say having a guy coming in and ordering fries and water). You need to accept the good with the bad of your business. You cant say a fucking thing to that guy. If anyone doesn't tip, you cant say a fucking thing to that guy. You can, but the fact that there is an OPEN INVITATION to tip the server, you need to understand what that means. It does not mean an instant gratuity added to the check that you will automatically receive in tips.
In the event of these aformentioned situations, all you can do is call them assholes and wait for the next customer. Understand in the food industry, YOU ARE THEIR BITCH. They almost literally pay your paycheck. So you are at their whim in almost all cases.
Change your occupation, not your customers.
>>36956
>>you are their bitch
i'm going to have to ask you to leave the restaurant.
...
if you don't leave i'm calling the cops.
>>36956
>>36956
Actually m80 if you came to any good restaurant, and they treated you well, everyone did their job correctly(which does happen 99.5% of the time in good restaurants), and you outright refused to tip based on "lol pay your employees better" you would be chased down by the general manager and asked why you didn't tip. If you said "I don't have to tip" then they would accept it as a loss, and tell you to never come back.
Most people have empathy, and therefore tip. If you want to be a fag about the way things work don't be surprised when people treat you like a gutless faggot.
>>36969
Keep your pride, but not your money.
>>36972
The manager might ask you to not come back again. I wouldn't think so because whether the customer tips or not, has no financial strain on the restaurant itself, just the server. The cook, manager, assistant manager, dishwasher and the hostess all get their money regardless.
Obviously I tip when I go out. I even used to work as a server, worked in the restaurant business for 4 years or so. And what I gathered was a bunch of entitled fucks wanting as much money as possible from these people that pay their paychecks and being pissed off whenever things aren't exactly their way.
Like "who tips $2?!?" "Dont come out to eat if you're broke, faggot(as if the server isn't fucking broke himself doing that shitty job) "This asshole customer keeps asking for shit, 'just eat, pay me and leave!'
I don't care much for the tipping system itself, but saying 'hey you don't have to tip me or anything, im just doing my job' and not being prepared for a $0 tip is just asinine.
>>36975
Sorry man but you're out of your element, I've never worked in a place where a completely shitty tip unwarented goes without mention to the customer, maybe it happens in red lobster and applebees or whatever shit restaurant with hundreds of stores, but in fine dining this doesn't happen at all.
As much as I hate the balance of money to hours servers make over kitchen staff such as myself, it is an ecosystem, and if servers are disgruntled because they're not being stood up for in the one part of their job they actually won't take shit for, then maybe they start stealing, maybe it throws off their whole night and the rest of their tables get inadequate service, which does affect business.
Some servers actually take pride in their work, and do a good job and have extensive knowledge of the menu and do infact make people happy, if these core staff aren't taken care of you can lose more then just an employee, you can lose a very valuable employee that makes the life of the kitchen and management easier by simply being great at their job.
If your boss won't stand up for you, and you are on the bottom of the totem poll, then you have absolutely no power and don't enjoy work, so saying that it has no effect on the restaurant itself is an extremely short sided point of view.
>>36670
>>36573
On second thought, this does seem to work well with places like e.g. brazilian/argentinian charcuterie restaurants. Also, as this anon points out >>36881 niggers. I hadn't thought about niggers.
Charging a flat fee per head makes sense, as long as you're sure they're not hiding food in their clothes.
>>36977
You're right to an extent, Servers are the face of the business and being backed up by management shows the strength of their serving skills. High dining is cut off at what? $15+ a plate? I'm sure high dining has shitty tippers and not 0 tippers.
I do agree, knowing the menu, being a good influence on their dinner, and getting people what they want are important should get you a lot of money. But keep in mind. That even if you suck my dick under the table, i'll still only tip you $5.
>>36657
Don't kid yourself, you're a "cook".
>>37019
nope, cdc bro, suck muh dick.
>>36543
a McD's meal in my area runs you 5-9 USdicks. Low end is 7-12 USdicks, 10-18 for a mid dicking and 20+ dicks per entree is our top end. Usually 25-35ish.
Meal includes drink and is a menu item, not a single order side or half ass order that.
>>36972
t. 40 year old waiter
>>36310
>People forget that they’re not paying just for the food but for the whole dining experience
Nobody is fucking paying money for the "dining experience". They're paying for the god damned food. This moronic shill got it wrong in the first half of the first sentence of his rant. Done reading now.
>>36320
>>36421
>>36453
>>36657
All of my this. I would NEVER eat at a restaurant that even had a REPUTATION for doing this. And if they sprung it on me, I'd get up right then and leave. And if they tried to lay hands on me, they'd get busted jaws additionally. This is possibly the most cuntish policy I have ever heard happening in any restaurant ever.
>>36521
>Punish the waiter because the owner's a cunt
You sound like the exact sort of prick to instate such a shitty policy in the first place. How poorly you tip is a VERY good indicator of what kind of a piece of shit you are.
>>36659
>charging for bread
Any restaurant that does this is shit. Period. I've had it done, but not frequently. And any business that did it always had shit food anyway. Except for one I think.
>>37080
Center for Disease Control? And they let you near food?
>Hahahahaha....Sheeeit.
>>36310
completely agree that its ethical. if the neckbeard mouth breathing idiots in this thread don't want to pay it, they won't go to that restuarant. but, who are we kidding, they don't anyway, except for perhaps special occasions.
