http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/26/hollandes-anti-isis-talks-with-putin-complicated-by-downing-of-russian-jet
>Proofs
Really not sure who's at fault here. I think it will be along time before we can determine what was happening behind the scenes.
I know Russia likes to test the waters with flying through other countries air space, but so does everyone else. Russia posed 0 threat to Turkey.
DAILY REMINDER THAT TURKEY LITERALLY VIOLATED BASICALLY EVERY SINGLE NATO PROTOCOL ON AIRCRAFT INTERCEPTION. I'M IN WRITING IN CAPS BECAUSE THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. HERE'S THE EXTRACT FROM NATO'S ARTICLES ON AIRCRAFT INTERCEPTION:
"
IF THE AIRCRAFT IS ON AN EXIT COURSE OF AN EXTREMELY NARROW BAND OF AIRSPACE, INTERCEPTION IS UNCALLED FOR
AT THE HALFWAY POINT, AN AIRCRAFT ENCROACHING UPON AIRSPACE IF ON AN EXIT COURSE, HAS COMPLIED WITH WARNINGS AND ORDERS AND CANNOT BE FIRED UPON
THE MINUTE THE AIRCRAFT IS OUT OF YOUR AIRSPACE, IT CANNOT BE FIRED UPON AND YOU MUST TURN AROUND AND GO HOME
IF YOU KNOW THE PURPOSE OF AN AIRCRAFT OPERATING CLOSE TO THE BORDER, ACCIDENTAL ENCROACHMENT IS ALLOWED AND NECESSITATES NO SCRAMBLE OR INTERCEPTION, UNLESS THE AIRCRAFT IS ON A PATH INTO YOUR COUNTRY WITH NO DEFINED EXIT POINT. IF THE AIRCRAFT IS MILITARY AND CLEARLY ARMED, AN AIRBORNE SENTRY CONSISTING OF AN INTERCEPTION SQUADRON IS ENCOURAGED TO FLY A HOLDING PATTERN ALONG THE BORDER FOR QUICK TURNAROUND. (NOTE, THAT DOESNT HAVE SHOOTDOWN OR EVEN RADAR LOCK ANYWHERE IN THE DEFINITION OF TURN AROUND)
DO NOT FIRE UPON AN AIRCRAFT THAT IS LEAVING OR HAS LEFT AIRSPACE. IT IS AN ACT OF WAR THAT BARS YOU FROM INCITING ARTICLE 5, AS NATO IS A DEFENSIVE MILITARY ORGANIZATION AND ARTICLE 5 ONLY COVERS A NATION ATTACKING A NATO COUNTRY WITHOUT DIRECT PROVOCATION OF THAT COUNTRY, OR AN OBJECTIVE ACT OF WAR AGAINST YOUR NOW PRESENT AGGRESSOR.
YOU MUST VISUALLY INTERCEPT THE AIRCRAFT AND HAVE VISUAL CONTACT WITH THE PILOT"
ALSO THIS >>1631
and you should blame russia a bit tbh. who sends an old ground attack aircraft like the SU-24 flying arround like that without SU27 escort.
>>1683
>implying turks care
>implying obama cares
>>1631
>Really not sure who's at fault here
Turkey has been pushing the limits for a while here. They help fund the groups that work against Russia and then they shoot down one of their planes?
I feel like this shit was blown up by retards in social media with all these "WW3 IZ COEMING JEEZUS" posts. Turkey shot down a Russian carrier, which allegedly was in Turkey's airspace. Yeah, it probably violated a bunch of NATO policies, but that is why there is an emergency meeting to whip some kebab ass for goofing. Russia will probably continue to deny shit, cry loudly and maybe set some sanctions, but who gives a fuck? Its another fucking continent. And no, the idea of WW3 is just stupid. NotLikeThis.
Tl;dr this shit doesnt matter
/thread
>>1683
russians are not nato
>>1585
remove t*rkroach
>>2828
What difference does that make?
>>2830
Rude!
>>3059
Are you retarded?
>>3088
no ,are you?
>>1683
1. Turkey can already cite Article 5 for the refugee crisis in Syria.
2. Turkey is not and is not intending to cite Article 5 in this instance.
3. Turkey's RoE in regards to its airspace are its own to set and enforce, not NATO's
4. If Turkey had made its RoE known to the Russians, previously warned the Russians multiple times, and even shot down unmanned drones then what reason would Turkey have to expect that it was Russia in violation?
5. Since it doesn't seem that there was any misunderstanding on Russia's part and the violation was intentional, then it must follow that Russia's war is currently being fought by idiots and/or scum that wanted to provoke Turkey into attacking.
6. Russia's planned embargo against Turkey is a violation of multiple free trade agreements and combined with habitual border incursions, unilateral suspension of public diplomacy, and violent + malicious state rhetoric they constitute grounds to cite Article 5.
It would seem to me that Russia is asking for it. Hollande knows Assad is prohibiting all political solitions in Syria and Iraq, and that IS can not be defeated as long as he exists in office. He also knows that without Russian air power Assad would not last another year. It would be perfectly reasonable for the existing anti-IS coalition to impose a no-fly zone over northern Syria and enable the local nationals to survive free of IS and Assad imposed terror. If these forces decide to mount an offensive against a particular Damascus based warlord, then that would be a Syrian prerogative.
>>3059
Since you are retarded I'll have to spell it out:
Nato is a defensive pact, by violating its terms by shooting down a craft that posed no threat while leaving their airspace, Turkey should legally deserve no protection under article 5 when Russia comes for retribution as what they did was legally an act of war.
>>3106
You're misunderstanding the text, then. Russian is not given a Cart Blanche to do whatever it pleases and Turkey may still invoke Article 5 for this or any number of real or perceived threats emanating from Russia or Russian interests.
It would behoove actual Russian policy makers to understand this.
Fucking manlets. When will they learn?
>"a short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack" - Erdogan in 2012
Fast forward 3 years
>Erdogan authorizes attack against Russian jet for violating airspace for only 17 seconds
How any one can defend these two-faced faggots is beyond me.
Coincidentally, Turkey has also been much more careful about violating Greek air space, which it did all the time prior to this.
>>1585
>Russian tourists with disposable income
>Russian state not more concerned with its citizens running away to a better life in Europe with the Syrians
>>3145
The only people defending Turkey are Turkish nationalists. You have to be completely insensitive to every nation that has fallen victim to Turkey to defend Turkey's actions.
RUSSIA IT IS TIME TO REMOVE KEBAB
>>1585
BASED
A
S
E
D
fuck em
fuck em right in the ass Russia, we know turks like that kind of stuff
>>3533
I would rather side with Russians than muslims
